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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
mostly I hate denying and how it affects lane play, but I also have problems with the rune system and the item system (not just shop layout, but also the different shop locations). I also think I'd miss the importance of the Jungle quite a bit and I think a lot of the characters have skill mechanics that are complicated and confusing merely for the sake of being complicated, which bugs me though I'm sure I'd get over it if I played enough.
I dunno, as I said, I'll at least be trying it (since I have friends who will be playing), but my experience with LoL has been much better than the time I spent playing DotA, so I really don't have much hope for DotA2 taking over for me.
I dunno, as I said, I'll at least be trying it (since I have friends who will be playing), but my experience with LoL has been much better than the time I spent playing DotA, so I really don't have much hope for DotA2 taking over for me.
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Flattergasted.
I honestly don't think I've heard someone complain about shop location before. What is it specifically that you don't like about it? The side shops, the secret shop, or both?
Also which characters do you think have skills that are confusing for the sake of being complicated?
Rupture's the classic example of something that feels confusing just for the hell of it, but there are other abilities that I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around (like Proudmore's ult ship thing, wtf is going on with that ability). I dunno, maybe all of this just gets solved by some sort of better learning center/death recap system/display of buffs and debuffs that may or may not be in DotA2 but I just feel like after 50 games of LoL I had some sort of general grasp of what was happening and why, whereas in DotA there were abilities that I'd seen plenty of times and still couldn't figure out how the hell they worked or how I was supposed to respond or if they were being used correctly at all.
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Rupture is pretty simple, you move you take damage. It does catch a lot of new players off guard the first time, but I've also never been in a game where someone didnt explain to someone that ran around during a rupture why they died and why it was bad. Simple response: Your character is bleeding, don't run(even better is teleport away.)
Kunkkas ship primary purpose is pretty simple, its an AoE stun/damage when the boat explodes, that also gives a buff to allied units of Kunkka when he casts it. They get some movespeed and a little survivability. Simple response: A giant exploding ship is moving towards you, dodge it.
The only real hero I'd list as complicated is Invoker, and that's something a beginner definitely wouldn't pick up on, what with having 10 spells and all.
Honestly, the death recap system in LoL was really lacking in my eyes to the point of almost being as useless as DotA's (which is none.) If they gave more detailed info on an ability when you mouse over it, like the damage/effects at different ranks, I probably would have enjoyed the game a bit more because it would allow you to learn something when you're dead. Rather than a general description that isn't worth a whole lot unless you know the full mechanics of the ability.
But I still would really like to hear what you didn't like about the shops, as I've never heard that complaint before.
Kunkkas ship primary purpose is pretty simple, its an AoE stun/damage when the boat explodes, that also gives a buff to allied units of Kunkka when he casts it. They get some movespeed and a little survivability. Simple response: A giant exploding ship is moving towards you, dodge it.
The only real hero I'd list as complicated is Invoker, and that's something a beginner definitely wouldn't pick up on, what with having 10 spells and all.
Honestly, the death recap system in LoL was really lacking in my eyes to the point of almost being as useless as DotA's (which is none.) If they gave more detailed info on an ability when you mouse over it, like the damage/effects at different ranks, I probably would have enjoyed the game a bit more because it would allow you to learn something when you're dead. Rather than a general description that isn't worth a whole lot unless you know the full mechanics of the ability.
But I still would really like to hear what you didn't like about the shops, as I've never heard that complaint before.
Hey whats up, i've been playing LoL but i didn't realize people played on SWF
feel free to add me AlliieD
i use Kog'Maw , Teemo, Twisted Fate, and i used to use amumu but i'm dropping him because the patch is ****** him.
gonna pick up shen! :3
feel free to add me AlliieD
i use Kog'Maw , Teemo, Twisted Fate, and i used to use amumu but i'm dropping him because the patch is ****** him.
gonna pick up shen! :3
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Eh, I'm a fan of the deny system so I won't talk about it since I'm obviously biased on that.
However, the importance of the jungle is a little bit confusing to me. Like in the low to mid levels of play in Hon(and Dota) the jungle is a super important thing. Keeping it stacked for your carry at all times is a lot of trouble. Like it doesn't get enough attention for how good it is. Having your ancient creeps(comparable to a dragon in LoL) is so amazing. Since on average an ancient creep stack is worth about 600-900 gold. Keeping the jungle stacked is a sign of good support.
I noticed in LoL you have a similar thing to Roshan(Kongor in HoN) but instead of a specific hero getting something like a token which brings them back to life your entire team gets you an extremely strong buff.
Yeah, Invoker is a really complicated hero. >.> Luci is a tough one too. But so much fun when you figure them out.
Wait doom bringer is a tough one?
I don't see it..
I don't see it..
it's funny because even though I had a lot of complexity issues with DotA, Invoker was the guy I loved the most from it. but yea, I guess he's also an example of something horribly confusing for newer players (how the **** does he have 9 abilities? why am I slow, where did he go? what the hell is this ice wall? why am I getting stunned with this **** ice block over my head? omg, what the hell is confusion in this game anyway?)
anyway, about the shops, I just think it feels stupid to have shops all over the map. I feel like it makes coming back once you're pushed past outer towers even more difficult because the opposing team can deny you from getting the higher end items from the secret shop. The side shops feel like less of a big deal because iirc, it was only blink dagger that was side shop exclusive (been awhile though, so forgive me if I'm off on this recollection). I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I did feel like it was pretty contrived and didn't really add anything but more confusion to me as a newer player. Creating a difference between how easily you could buy items depending on whether you were laning top or bottom just feels awkward in retrospect (though of course this is a matter of taste, I suppose one could argue that this adds a new level of depth about team distribution and whatnot).
RNG River Runes just really bother me when compared to the jungle buffs in LoL too. I just think the jungle buff system is a much better system for neutral buffs than having them randomly appear in the river and allowing bottles to hold them.
anyway, about the shops, I just think it feels stupid to have shops all over the map. I feel like it makes coming back once you're pushed past outer towers even more difficult because the opposing team can deny you from getting the higher end items from the secret shop. The side shops feel like less of a big deal because iirc, it was only blink dagger that was side shop exclusive (been awhile though, so forgive me if I'm off on this recollection). I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I did feel like it was pretty contrived and didn't really add anything but more confusion to me as a newer player. Creating a difference between how easily you could buy items depending on whether you were laning top or bottom just feels awkward in retrospect (though of course this is a matter of taste, I suppose one could argue that this adds a new level of depth about team distribution and whatnot).
RNG River Runes just really bother me when compared to the jungle buffs in LoL too. I just think the jungle buff system is a much better system for neutral buffs than having them randomly appear in the river and allowing bottles to hold them.
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People got confused over having a lot of possible abilities :/ Then they would just misuse everything of his.
Believe me it happens :L
Side shop is most certainly not the only place you can get Blink Dagger.
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Blink is available in the main shop. Everything in the side shop is available in the main shop. The secret shop has special items that are "better" than the other items. Each team has a secret shop available to them. Plus to deny a teams secret shop is to somehow kill a flying courier that is invulnerable. :/ You can't really deny them access to the shop. The top and bottom lanes side shops have the same items. I think you just over complicated it on your own O=
The RNG river runes encourage ganking and a more active game. While the neutral spawns can encourage more of a ricing game.
EDIT: Didn't mean to use absolutes. The neutral spawns can easily be warded and baited so that you can gank the opposing team when they try to take them out. There are always exceptions.
I guess I'm just sucky enough that I never got into real courier play, but if you have couriers that are invulnerable (wtf, flying ones are invulnerable, what the crap how did I never know this?) what's the point of different locations anyway? I dunno, again, it feels like complexity just for the hell of it.
I don't think runes are the reason that high level LoL revolves quite a bit around ricing. it's mostly flash being a get out of jail free card every 3 minutes which makes ganking too low reward when solo lanes can just escape most of the time and also top being so far from dragon. but anyway, the reason I dislike runes is that you can't plan around them at all. you just arbitrarily stumble on a double damage rune on your way up top and now they're screwed, whereas if you found a regeneration rune or no rune at all, they might've been alright. I just don't like the random nature of them, I'd rather have the buffs be completely predictable and have the action of actually killing a tough jungle creep be attached to getting them.
g-regulate
Smash Hero
summoner name : BabyfartMcgeesax
characters : Shen
characters : Shen
hahaha, g-reg, that summoner name is ****.
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They have an ability that makes them invulnerable for a short period of time.
No. That's completely wrong. You have to maintain strong wards so you know where the rune is spawning then race to the rune. Using blinks and whatever methods you can. Then you can tp to a lane to gank or continue to a lane to gank.
Having them attached to a creep makes it so you can't have a ganker mid who can rely on having strong rune control so he can constantly gank the side lanes. I.E. more ricing :/
what? ok, now you're sounding really wrong, how is having a mid with buff control more threatening than a jungler with buff control in LoL? I mean, you can tell when a mid goes missing, a jungler by nature is always mia and thus a larger threat to side lanes.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Also, the rune's are still random right? How do you justify randomness! well, I don't like unnecessary randomness atleast, I'm even against crits.
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Flying couriers have 2 unique abilities, they can move at max move speed (522) for a duration, as well as have a 7 second invulnerability. While being mostly magic immune to boot. As such they're also worth 300 gold should you manage to have it die.
Every game your team should have a flying courrier, and there should never be a game your team doesn't have one at 0 minutes.
There is some randomness to runes, but nothing I find to be too huge of a detriment to the system overall. I feel like from your description you aren't really sure how they work.
Starting at the 0:00 mark(The game starts at 2 minutes pregame time, counts down to 0:00, and then starts to ascend again) a rune will spawn in either the top or bottom river at a set location. It does randomly spawn at one, not both; as well as randomly being one of the 5 different types of rune. As long as the rune was gotten, or bottled at any point in time before 2:00, a new rune will spawn at either top or bot again. And this pattern continues all game, with spawns every two minutes.
You will always want to have a ward up early-mid game on one of the rune spawns, so that you can see that even if it didn't spawn there, you obviously know where it did spawn at. Depending on the type of rune that spawns, you will either be ganking, or just picking up something to lane even better with. 3/5 runes are very effective for ganking, one is fairly effective, and one is just a straight health/mana restore over time. Controlling the runes is a big part of early game play, because they do give an advantage, and you always know when they spawn.
The system definitely isn't perfect, but it also works out very well for DotA. You also get a decent chance to have a fight before the creeps spawn/game even starts; which you can't get in LoL anymore since they delayed dragon spawn time.
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A Jungler in nature means that you have to have a side lane with a solo hero. Which means that you do two things in that lane as the other side. Set up a kill lane and maintain strong wards. Then when the lane gets pushed you just goto the jungle and gank the jungler.
As a ganking mid you should be able to gank any of your lanes. Even if it is mid. If you get a rune top you can still gank bot. If they have wards and you're fairly sure of it. Bait the backing of top and tp bot for a gank down there.
The only problem I have with runes is the 0:00 rune. Which can make or break a mid. :/
Also, there is always some randomness in any game.
EDIT: About not liking crits. They are one of the strongest ways for a hero to scale into the late game. You don't see supports with passive crits, so instead they have either nukes or strong cc. The crits are useless in the early game and super good late game. While the supports are extremely strong early and mid game and lose the majority of their ability in the late game .
Jazriel
Smash Ace
There are 5 different runes now? O_O DD, illu, haste, invis, oh yeah and regen. Lol, I thought there were only 3 for some reason.
As much as I like refreshing my dota/hon knowledge, this is the LoL thread. I personally think LoL is slightly better than DotA simply because the game is simpler (in a sense that Go is simpler than Chess) and less prone to landslide effects or things with no counter (Doom Shaman has better projectile speed and attack animation, there goes that lane etc etc).
DotA is like MvC2 and LoL is like HDR. MvC2 has so much imba bs garbage that everything kinda works outs, HDR is quite simple (though with some odd technical gimmicks) but just as good.
As much as I like refreshing my dota/hon knowledge, this is the LoL thread. I personally think LoL is slightly better than DotA simply because the game is simpler (in a sense that Go is simpler than Chess) and less prone to landslide effects or things with no counter (Doom Shaman has better projectile speed and attack animation, there goes that lane etc etc).
DotA is like MvC2 and LoL is like HDR. MvC2 has so much imba bs garbage that everything kinda works outs, HDR is quite simple (though with some odd technical gimmicks) but just as good.
Frolossus
Smash Lord
panda, just tried your pirate build in a solo ranked match
18/9 lol
this build is amazing
18/9 lol
this build is amazing
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Hai guise.
>_>
I'm downloading LoL right now. Hope to play you guys soon.
Smooth Criminal
>_>
I'm downloading LoL right now. Hope to play you guys soon.
Smooth Criminal
Dekar173
Justice Man
N64
Smash Champion
I'm not sure it's been fully addressed, but I'm going to partially agree with mogwai on the shop system. I absolutely adore LoL's shop system. I haven't played HoN or looked much at Dota 2, but the main thing I liked about LoL as compared to Dota is the shop layout. In Dota there was a ton of stuff to memorize with the shop system. This was due to the wc3 engine and its limitations, but if you wanted an item you had to remember where the item was out of the like 9 (estimating) shops, and if it was a recipe you also had to remember where each piece was as well. After a number of games this came pretty naturally, but it was a HUGE learning curve originally as there were somewhere around 100+ items in different locations you had to memorize.
LoL's shop system is pretty basic and easy to understand. Items are listed in sections related to what they do. Need HP? Click Defense->Health and now you have a list of every single item with HP on it. You can also click on an item and it gives a tree of all the prereqs, and you can purchase each seperately on that tree, or just everything together at once.
I really liked that going from Dota->LoL, in that it greatly reduced the amount of time I had to spend learning items.
LoL's shop system is pretty basic and easy to understand. Items are listed in sections related to what they do. Need HP? Click Defense->Health and now you have a list of every single item with HP on it. You can also click on an item and it gives a tree of all the prereqs, and you can purchase each seperately on that tree, or just everything together at once.
I really liked that going from Dota->LoL, in that it greatly reduced the amount of time I had to spend learning items.
Jazriel
Smash Ace
Go has 1 type of piece and basically 1 rule, place stones on an intersection. Chess has 6 different pieces, all of which have different ways to move and different amounts of each piece.
I think you should check your premises again as what defines a "simple" game.
I think you should check your premises again as what defines a "simple" game.
I assume (and this might be wrong) that at the very least DotA2 will be making the shops easier to deal with and consolidate the shops in base (plz?). But beyond these mechanics that are bred from the WC3 engine, I just don't really get the point of having a secret shop with items you can't find in base out in the battlefield. Again, it just seems like a "for the hell of it" decision that only serves the purpose of making it harder for new players to get into the game imo.
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Funnily enough, one of my dislikes about LoL is the slowness of shopping in general compared to DotA. Yes it might be nice for a beginner, but there's really no matching the speed and convenience that comes from learning DotA/HoN shops.
oh god, you're so very wrong, lol.
seriously, the shop system in DotA is a full blown abortion, there is like... absolutely nothing good about it,
.
seriously, the shop system in DotA is a full blown abortion, there is like... absolutely nothing good about it,
.
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One click and one keystroke gets me any item component, it is far more efficient than LoL's shop. There's really no way around that.
Notice how I say for a beginner it might be fine, but honestly I feel like everyone that plays LoL makes too big a deal out of having to learn things to play a game.
Notice how I say for a beginner it might be fine, but honestly I feel like everyone that plays LoL makes too big a deal out of having to learn things to play a game.
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Ok. There are 6 shop locations on the map. 2 of them being secret shops. 2 Being outposts and 2 being your main store. Everything that is in the outpost is in the main store. Anything not in the main store is in the secret shop.
2 locations. Not really that much to memorize.
LoL's shop system pissed me off to no end haha. Takes so long to do anything.
LoL's caters to the beginner crowd a lot better than Dota and HoN do. I will say that much =D
Jazriel
Smash Ace
LoL's item system is only good for understanding what's what and what's where. Otherwise it fails since it can't be hotkeyed and requires a 3rd party program to edit recommended items.
But once you edit your recommended items it's by far the best system
But once you edit your recommended items it's by far the best system
S l o X
Smash Champion
You can change the recommended items? Link?
Jazriel
Smash Ace
oh good lord, someone who isn't trying to get a job in the game industry needs to troll this kid hard: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=332975
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Once you edit anything isn't it the best system? o.OLoL's item system is only good for understanding what's what and what's where. Otherwise it fails since it can't be hotkeyed and requires a 3rd party program to edit recommended items.
But once you edit your recommended items it's by far the best system
ruin`
Smash Journeyman
No pantheon in Dota ;(