Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[safehaven]

Swf knowledge too strong

why do u always pop in and say stuff like this

idk if real serious or just sarcasm.

the rain man says on yorick:
I feel that there is a possibility of Riot doing an overbuff on this one. Also, this champion has a real "trolly" feel to it. IMO just delete this champion and forget it was ever released, and refund everybody's IP.

seriously this champ is just stupidly ******** and ugly too. i want a pony champion

yorick is like an ugly creepy bad champion. his harass is so stupid, and his teamfight can be so horribly weak. just delete him, along with eve and twitch and make lol better

also guys check out my masteries:
listen to them for real: these are the masteries that I use:

i go 30-0-0 cause om ******* brave and will never back down.

 

[_Dice]

just go 9-21-0 and everyone will be happy . . . right? (never play the guy... just being devil's advocate)

what's he need so badly in utility anyway?

Maximum Mana mostly, the extra 5% translates into extra AD from manamune and having more mana early when you really are starved for it is great.

 

[DMG]

LOL

Unless they changed the max mana mastery, it only works off of your base mana. And even if it did not, 5% of 3000 Mana (which is more than Yorick will ever have) is only 150 extra mana. Which is what, 3 bonus AD?

Early game before you have 1000 mana, he will get less than 50 bonus mana from the mastery. What's the point of that when you can have the EXP buff for the entire game?

TL:DR

Max mana mastery is worthless. You should always get the EXP boost instead. Even if you play Ryze.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Maximum Mana mostly, the extra 5% translates into extra AD from manamune and having more mana early when you really are starved for it is great.

wait... you're rushing manamune and you're still having mana problems?

Also the 5% mana from the mastery scales with base mana, not max mana (stupidly) unless they changed it.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Really? I've been getting the extra exp since I feel he REALLY needs those levels to get on par with everyone else's harrass/damage output.

 

[Frolossus]

guys
shaco might be viable in team fights
but
you need a yorick :/

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

guys
shaco might be viable in team fights
but
you need a yorick :/

why? can he ult your ult right before it dies or something?

 

[Frolossus]

why? can he ult your ult right before it dies or something?

he ults you then you ult
3 shacos
assuming most of his core items are done he puts out so much freaking damage

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

he ults you then you ult
3 shacos
assuming most of his core items are done he puts out so much freaking damage

I liked it when I had a yorick on my team (this was pre-buff) and he'd ult our Katarina . . . she'd suicidal death lotus, get at least some assists, she'd die, then her ghost would be able to ult again a few seconds later, it was hilarious.

 

[_Dice]

I never said maximum mana scaled off anything but base mana, i don't know why you assumed i said something i didn't.
and he doesnt RUSH mana mune i mean it's definitely his first item but because you are yorick, you stay in lane pretty much for eternity, so you don't go back until you are starting to lose the lane so the extra mana helps alot with that.

and the mana you get is enough for a spell which i find an extra spell comes in handy. as for xp, you should be out leveling your lane anyway since you can force them back and you aren't really ever leaving lane. and as for xp working all game, it does absolutely nothing at lvl 18. completely worthless.
yorick is mediocre at lvl 1 and 2 but starting lvl 3 he becomes a big bully, so having the extra mana at lvls 1 and 2 translates to an extra heal which is as any yorick player knows 80-120 hp. so if you think xp boost is more important than 100 hp, be my guest.

if you don't auto attack after you W the ghoul targets any champ hit by the spell. meaning W E does 200ish damage at lvl 3 when you aim right and control yorick correctly, while Q does another 100.
while the damage is only 180 up front, the ghouls doing 120 means you are continuing you heal and do damage as you go back to last hitting. which definitely helps his laning phase and farming.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

if you think xp boost is more important than 100 hp, be my guest.

a level up = more HP, more mana and a more powerful heal-ghoul . . . just saying.


Also, at level 3, the amount of mana you're getting from the mastery is less than 20 mana. (Whis is NOT enough for any spell)

and, again, it's less than 50 mana at levl 18 . . . depending on what spell you're casting, that might not even be enough for one spell

 

[Abel1994]

Bought Urgan... I suck with him lol

 

[BSL]

Urgot? do you mean Urgot?

can you get a browser with spell check, then use it please? sorry for being a **** about it, but reading your posts is getting to be a nuisance.

 

[DMG]

I'm done with the Yorick talk. If you're dead on convinced that max mana mastery is better than EXP mastery after this... then I can't stop laughing.

EXP boost is more useful than a TINY amount of mana. TINY. Hell even if you had a mana pool at 3K AND the mastery counted towards Max mana, you wouldn't even get a ****ing Sapp crystal worth of mana. Since it DOESN'T count towards max mana, you're not even reaching half of that level.

Spending 4 points in a mastery tree for less than 100, hell even 70-50 mana, is GARBAGE. I'd rather take the EXP boost and watch it be meaningless at level 18 than take the mana and watch it be basically useless throughout the game. If I take the EXP boost, I can use that to reach level 18 faster than someone who doesn't have it. Is that more important than a ****ing measly 100 or less extra mana?

There. Now justify the max mana mastery. There's no justification for taking it over the EXP boost. Ever. That's how bad it is, even after they nerfed the EXP boost.

Or tell me this: if a champion NEEDS this supposedly godly mana boost after he's planning on getting a ****ing manamune in the first place to address his mana pool, that champion probably sucks massive **** and couldn't be better than average like you suggested. If he doesn't need the max mana boost, then skip it and get EXP boost. If he needs it and benefits from it more than the EXP boost, then the character sucks **** and you should give up on playing it.

Rant over.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm done with the Yorick talk. If you're dead on convinced that max mana mastery is better than EXP mastery after this... then I can't stop laughing.

unrelated to yorick, but on Ryze, at least it could be worth it. 64 mana is cool considering how much he likes mana. I mean, it's not a huge huge amount, but still, it's Ryze and it's mana.

 

[_Dice]

is he always such a *****? or is it because he's wrong about yorick and it makes him feel bad?

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

no it's because you're wrong and keep insisting you're right lololol

 

[DMG]

I'd rather be a **** than be wrong

Shoutouts to Jpak on the weekends

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

is he always such a *****? or is it because he's wrong about yorick and it makes him feel bad?

wrong about yorick in what way? I mean yeah, I agree, he's wrong about how bad he thinks Yorick is . . . but he's currently arguing with you about whether to choose the max mana mastery over the experience mastery.

If you're ryze, singed or blitzcrank you're allowed to make the argument to choose it over EXP.... but on yourick it's a terrible, terrible idea.

 

[DMG]

Even on those characters, it's not worth it. Gold wise, it amounts to nothing, and actual benefit wise it's tiny as well. Ryze gets what, 4-5 more damage on a Q? 1-2 on a Snare? Blitz gets 30ish more health on mana shield max level, singed gets 15ish more health max level, etc. When instead of that, you can have EXP buff to keep up with the rest of characters, hit 6 or important lane numbers sooner, etc. More EXP gained from Dragon and Baron as well.

 

[Abel1994]

noobs!

TIred of bad teamates

Whenever im like 0/5/23 they say im a feeder and never consider my assist as anything -_-

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

EVEN IF you really feel mana is so important for yorick, look at it this way:

Masteries:
Experience:
4 mastery points = 5% more EXP

Mana
4 mastery points = 15-45 more mana depending on level

Now let's say you're getting quintessences for it:
Experience:
3 quints = 6% more EXP

Mana:
-per level:
--3 quints = 7-128 (depending on level)
-flat
--3 quints = 62.5 at all levels


seriously.... how can you even compare the value of those masteries unless you scale REALLY REALLY WELL with mana (which yorick doesn't . . .)


@ DMG
Well it's not JUST that ryze gets extra damage and that blitz and singed get more survivability, it's that they ALSO get get more mana for the sake of mana. they have abilities which amplify the use of mana on them making the mana mastery DEBATABLY a fair alternative . . . never for anyone else though, really.

 

[DMG]

I mean at first glance, sure.

But then you look deeper and you go "Yeah not even Ryze or Blitz should get this" and move on.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I mean at first glance, sure.

But then you look deeper and you go "Yeah not even Ryze or Blitz should get this" and move on.

I still take it on ryze. The deciding factor, I think is that exp does NOTHING at level 18.

Exp is nice, don't get me wrong, but it let's you level up a tiny bit earlier and . . . I mean, I like more mana on Ryze. I really like more mana on ryze.

Even so, I think it needs to scale off of max mana so people will actually want to grab it.




edit: also, reading the wording, I'm not really sure, does it give Ryze the bonus 60 something mana all at level 1? or does it slowly increase with level? If it's the former, then I definitely think it's worth it.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Experience doesn't do anything at lvl 18.
But it gets you to 18 earlier.
Keeping up with the pace of the game is more worth it than a tiny bit of mana (< 1 spell, seriously).

"Mana for the sake of mana."
On those characters you build a lot of mana anyway. When was the last time you saw a maxed out Ryze or Blitz completely run out of mana? And when that does happen... how much is that ~60 (I don't know but that number was mentioned) mana going to make a difference?

 

[DMG]

Bonus mana you get is dependent on level. Max benefit is only at max level.

 

[Vyke]

Is this argument really going on? The EXP Mastery is taken no matter who you play with if you decide to go into the Utility tree.

This isn't an argument. If you want to be as efficient as possible, you take that mastery. It's not a sheep mentality where "oh, the pros do it, we all do it."

You don't gear thinking about level 18. You gear to win games, not prepare for the long struggle (and even then, that mana mastery doesn't do that.)

 

[_Dice]

okay so if i'm playing as yorick with maximum mana mastery and i'm lanign against a champ with xp mastery. every 20 creeps he is 1 creep up on me, correct? (5% and all). so that is 4 waves early? so if once every 4 waves i force him out due to my having a little more mana to burn (and thus heal with) as long as he misses 1 creep then i am winning, since he invested in something that hasn't come to fruition andi invested in something that makes me better overall at any given level

this is the place i am coming from with mana mastery on yorick. not that it's some amazing thing, but because yorick has an incredible lane presence the extra mana,for instance i get 114ish mana from runes, this is only enough for 2 spells, but when i get mana mastery the extra 15-20 mana gives me enough for another spell, it allows me to potentially force the other champ out of the lane for a moment costing him any advantage he has from his xp mastery. and since yorick is so strong in lane and lasts so long due to his healing, i am being forced out considerably less often than they are, netting myself an XP advantage anyway.

i view the potential extra spell allowing me to stay in lane or force the opponent out of lane as much more valuable than the potential to have the extra level mean something in the time it takes a creep to die i view this as more valuable SOLELY because of the laning power of yorick, i wouldn't get max mana on pretty much anyone else since they don't have the entire combination of factors that make it worth it to me. low cost spells, low cooldown spells, high sustain, good harrass,Scaling with mana ect.

It's not so much an argument as my saying "hey i do blank because of blank and it works for me" and DMG insulting me for an opinion not a big deal though he is just a good representation of how terrible the LoL community is.

 

[DMG]

No, what it sounded like was "DMG you're wrong, Yorick is great (don't care what top players have said about him and don't care about seeing how he does in gameplay between stronger players) and max mana mastery is great". Not "Hey I fiddle around with this and it works for me, opinions?". Cause if you said THAT, I would have politely gave you an answer. "Hey there, well it's usually found that EXP boost is stronger than Max mana mastery. Have you tried that out?" I don't mind people coming around tossing ideas around or suggesting things and asking for opinions. But there's a difference from THAT and "What are you TALKING about Yorick is better than average, sleeper hit IMO cause I run mana runes and mana mastery." And then when I give an explanation or argument as why you might be wrong, you counter it with "Lol you're just ignorant."


The thing about flat mana is that the benefits of it aren't as permanent and far reaching as you think. Ok so it lets you get that 1-2 extra spells off in lane. Now what? That was your boost. Your flat mana advantage means nothing if you regen mana at the same rate as a Yorick without flat mana boosts. After that, you're in the same place as him until your mana returns back up. You can't realize the advantage of a larger mana pool as much if there's a delay in your spell useage. His mana costs are high enough for early laning that frankly you're gonna have to space out your spells or else you're gonna run out of mana or basically be the same as a normal Yorick.


If you want something that will let you outlast the other guy, I'd look at running Health Regen instead of going for flat mana. That will let you not have to use E to sustain as much, and you can use it more for harassing. It will also benefit you regardless of whether you are using spells or not.

 

[Limeee]

I just had the biggest bull**** of a ranked game ever, playing corki. I was bot lane, when our warwick got jungle ganked and killed by udyr, giving him blue right off the start. Then alistar runs in and gives udyr a second kill. Him and sion come back to bot lane, and I get scared so I turret hug. They push the lane, and then dive me at level 2/3. Udyr picks up a third kill me before dying to alistar taking the kill. So, I buy a ward and then head back to bot lane. I plant the ward in the wall bush towards me, because the lane will always be pushed, and Sion was camping the bush to try and stun me, and its alot safer if I know where he is. So I do that, and then they come back to lane and pick up another diving kill. At this point, my team is *****ing at me telling me I'm a big scrub. I didn't even have anything to say, I simply had no idea what the **** I was supposed to do.
Was there anything I could do? Besides camping spawn and farming the gold per second.
It just pisses me off when I feel so helpless :/.

 

[-Vocal-]

Swf knowledge too strong

jpak, you're the numba wun troll

 

[_Dice]

No, what it sounded like was "DMG you're wrong, Yorick is great (don't care what top players have said about him and don't care about seeing how he does in gameplay between stronger players) and max mana mastery is great". Not "Hey I fiddle around with this and it works for me, opinions?". Cause if you said THAT, I would have politely gave you an answer. "Hey there, well it's usually found that EXP boost is stronger than Max mana mastery. Have you tried that out?" I don't mind people coming around tossing ideas around or suggesting things and asking for opinions. But there's a difference from THAT and "What are you TALKING about Yorick is better than average, sleeper hit IMO cause I run mana runes and mana mastery." And then when I give an explanation or argument as why you might be wrong, you counter it with "Lol you're just ignorant."

Uhhhhh this entire conversation you've been saying i've said things that i clearly never said. so i don't really see the point in any human being trying to speak with you.

Maximum Mana mostly, the extra 5% translates into extra AD from manamune and having more mana early when you really are starved for it is great.

your response:

LOL
Max mana mastery is worthless.

I respond:

and he doesnt RUSH mana mune i mean it's definitely his first item but because you are yorick, you stay in lane pretty much for eternity, so you don't go back until you are starting to lose the lane so the extra mana helps alot with that.

and the mana you get is enough for a spell which i find an extra spell comes in handy. as for xp, you should be out leveling your lane anyway since you can force them back and you aren't really ever leaving lane.

You say:

If you're dead on convinced that max mana mastery is better than EXP mastery after this... then I can't stop laughing.

Spending 4 points in a mastery tree for less than 100, hell even 70-50 mana, is GARBAGE. I'd rather take the EXP boost and watch it be meaningless at level 18 than take the mana and watch it be basically useless throughout the game.

There. Now justify the max mana mastery.

Or tell me this: if a champion NEEDS this supposedly godly mana boost after he's planning on getting a ****ing manamune in the first place to address his mana pool, that champion probably sucks massive **** and couldn't be better than average like you suggested. If he doesn't need the max mana boost, then skip it and get EXP boost. If he needs it and benefits from it more than the EXP boost, then the character sucks **** and you should give up on playing it.

Rant over.

Then you say:

I'd rather be a **** than be wrong

And then what you apparently thought this conversation meant:

"DMG you're wrong, Yorick is great (don't care what top players have said about him and don't care about seeing how he does in gameplay between stronger players) and max mana mastery is great"
What are you TALKING about Yorick is better than average, sleeper hit IMO cause I run mana runes and mana mastery."

KEY: Bolded are things you should read again
Red are things where you put words in my mouth or just didn't know how to read
Underlined are things where one of us is acting superior or being a jerk.

also i believe the whole paragraph before you told me to justify my opinion was me justifying my opinion.

 

[Juno McGrath]

You guys still havent caught on to Dice yet.

 

[_Dice]

You guys still havent caught on to Dice yet.

??????????

 

[DMG]

Maybe I should have rephrased that to "Solidly" justify it. 20-30 ish extra mana early levels is not a strong tangible advantage, even after splurging flat mana runes trying to shore up his mana pool, to consider going that route over the EXP buff. Not gold efficiency wise, not in game impact wise. The EXP buff isn't something immediately tangible like damage health mana etc, but it's universally better than an extremely small boost to your mana pool, EVEN for characters that scale better than everyone else with mana. In stats gained from mana or how many more spells they will be able to use because of it.


If you want to state an opinion or offer something, go ahead. If you want to convince someone that Yorick is good, that he was better than previously thought, then offer up something that strongly supports that. Gameplay matches, strong player opinions and discussion, something other than "Well this is what I do personally and I think it's a good idea." I don't just say Yorick is bad "Cause I said so", there's been a plethora of widespread community talks about Yorick being quite weak and having issues compared to anyone in his class. With comparisons of his base stats and spells to other champs, strong players using him and trying all sorts of different builds, theorycraft over damage (realized and potential), etc. All of it leaned towards the character being fairly bad.


As for the max mana part: I used the max mana pool part as an example, not as something you specifically said. You went on about how the boost was nice, and I said "Well even if it went off Max mana, using a mana pool he will never reliably reach 95% of the time, that the number he would get from that falls short of a 400g Sapp Crystal. So, getting an even smaller boost than THAT high "inflated" number doesn't seem worth it".

 

[_Dice]

how many creeps does it take to reach lvl 18, i actually have no idea about that. if it's <400 then i'd justify that we are about equal in what the mastery gives, for instance if a creep gives 20 gold on average, and max mana mastery gets 150 mana(for example), which is 300 gold of mana, xp mastery gives the equivilent of 1 creep for every 20, that means that in order to make them equal then you have to get xp for 300 creeps before hitting 18 in order to have a creep equivilency be higher for xp mastery.

And yorick being bad post release had a number of reasons.

Yorick was playable for 6 days before he was buffed if you believe 6 days is enough to exhaust all possible ways of using a champ and all possible positions, then yeah the consensus about yorick being bad by people who played him for under 6 days would MAYBE be correct. but pre buff yorick won games, and pre buff yorick definitely helped win those games. thats a fact. and if you choose not to accept a fact then that is no longer my problem.

especially since you are in the minority here in terms of people thinking yorick is awful (swf). since you have been the only one to come in and say he is awful recently, everyone else saying he is good or better.
i merely said that since they didn't change anything but his approaching capabilities he was always this good, people weren't adjusted to him well enough. it's easy to say yueah this champ is good when people say he's bad at this but good at these things, and then they buff the thing he is bad at. it's alot harder to decide yeah this champ is good when he's bad at this thing, but beingn so good at these things makes him worth it, especially when you can work around the bad thing.

random fun fact about yorick, max W over E. you'll like it better.

i've played good players with yorick pre and post buff, the only difference in how yorick acts and ends up is that i tend to survive about 15% more fights than i did previously, the fights pre buff where i was would suicide myself to take out the last 2 champs for an ace so the remaining team could push i now instead last slightly longer because he can approach better and clean them up while staying alive. i'm serious it's the only change resulting from the buff, and it made people go "this champ sucks" to "this champ is OP".

all because people realized his ability, because approaching was much easier to accomplish for people. that and he had a free week, meanign his use probably doubled. considering no one used him because it was taboo before.

 

[Shaya]

Shaco has crazy late game damage. Like... no joke. I'm pretty sure no other character in the game scales as hard as him in terms of damage. BUT, he's still a weak and mostly unviable character.

 

[DanGR]

especially since you are in the minority here in terms of people thinking yorick is awful (swf). since you have been the only one to come in and say he is awful recently, everyone else saying he is good or better.

+1 to "he's awful."

 

[Turazrok]

Yeah yorick is pretty bad.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Why was this even an argument? Its well known among players that the max mana mastery is one of the worst masteries in the game. Nobody with a brain puts points into that. I'm not going to make some long-winded argument, I'm just going to say that nobody good gets the mastery and leave it at that.