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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
7,605
Location
Ohio
NNID
SonicTheHedgedog
3DS FC
3437-3319-6725
Any Shaco players here?

Guinsoo said something recently to the effect of:
"Shaco can't really receive a lot of buffs as long as he can jungle because otherwise his ganks are just way too strong at lower Elos and he encourages too passive of a gampelay at all Elos"

So what do you guys think?
Would you rather have Shaco continue to be modestly underpowered, or would you like him to be viable but no longer able to jungle super well?
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
shaya is very good at shaco, from what i understand. but he thinks shaco is better than he actually is, lol.

what is this ip boost you were talking about earlier? is riot compensating us for the downtime?
 

Gifts

¡Me gusta tejer!
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
2,414
Location
Richmond, MI
shaya is very good at shaco, from what i understand. but he thinks shaco is better than he actually is, lol.

what is this ip boost you were talking about earlier? is riot compensating us for the downtime?
Yeah he is compensating us for the downtime yesterday with a boost of ip.
 

Gifts

¡Me gusta tejer!
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
2,414
Location
Richmond, MI
Oh nvm, looked into it and if you bought say an IP boost or EXP boost and the server was down you'd be compensated for that.
 

safehaven

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
479
the only time ive ever gotten truly ***** in recent memory were by people using uncommon champions that they knew really well and i didnt

kat
ezreal
swain
malphite
urgot (well i do the ******.. <3 urgot)

everyone knows how to fight gp and ashe and corki and annie and malz and nida
no intelligent person should go 0-3 vs them. but u can still get ****ed up by a competent malphite just cause u dont know what to do until youve already died a bunch
 

Frolossus

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,607
Location
Marquette, Michigan
Any Shaco players here?

Guinsoo said something recently to the effect of:
"Shaco can't really receive a lot of buffs as long as he can jungle because otherwise his ganks are just way too strong at lower Elos and he encourages too passive of a gampelay at all Elos"

So what do you guys think?
Would you rather have Shaco continue to be modestly underpowered, or would you like him to be viable but no longer able to jungle super well?
shaco is fine if all he gets are bug fixes
like seriously, if his bugs were fixed he would be a lot more viable then he is now
 

-Vocal-

Smash Hero
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
6,370
Location
Behind the music
Just played a game as Ashe where my team was Rammus, Galio, Morgana, and Zilean. It was like playing protect the carry and I loved it <3

@Abel: Both can be good, given you get enough farm
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
is ap poopy> ad poppy?

Im gettign 17+ kills in game with ad poppy
AD is better. As in... trinity force... inf edge.

If you prefer getting it, philostone is a fine rush on her if your lane sucks.

true story
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,959
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Different Poppy builds accomplish different roles. She is definitely a proc character, so regardless of which spectrum you build her you are getting a T Force or L Bane along with your other items.

AP Poppy nukes whoever you target as hard as possible, as quick as possible. If you have DFG Lich Bane Death Cap etc you are gonna beat the living **** out of whoever you ult and charge into.

AD Poppy is more sustained damage, aiming to deal crazy damage over time. Lower bust, but more AA.

AP Poppy is a bit more favorable on TT with all the close walls basically guaranteeing a double hit on dash in. AD Poppy on 5's is seen more since it tends to be likely for a bit more chasing/sustained fighting going on.

You can see either build on either map and watch it work. How you build her relates to your team's other sources of damage, and what role you need her to play.
 

_Dice

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
640
i <3 yor yor. ^^ switched up my runes and now i'm pretty much incredible in top lane flat AD Marks and Runes and flat mana Glyphs with flat AD quints.

21/0/9 for greed.
 

_Dice

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
640
New Yorick is absolutely amazing.
I truly believe he was always this good. they just gave him a little more protection when he is advancing which is all he needed to be obviously good instead of just secretly good.
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,882
Location
Dacula,GA
I love it when team blame me fore their mistake. a person runs into a 2v1 wile i have 20% health and ran then they complain...
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,959
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
What do you mean by "always this good"?

Because let me tell you. Yorick in his old stage was bad. Sheer bad. He had the POTENTIAL to be good, always did, but he never could have been considered decent. He had too many problems.

1. I still dunno if this is fixed or not, but before his Q used to not work with lifesteal. This put him below other characters who Q auto attack and get it.

2. He has magic spells that scale with AD. I still think that's stupid since you're trying to play the character as Tanky DPS AND iirc the Ghoul attacking damage is physical. AND his ghouls scale with tanky DPS stats instead of magical stats.

3. His base spell damage is lower than that of other characters because ghouls are expected to contribute some damage. His ghouls have/had poor AI targeting and lose life so quickly.

4. His ult was subpar because of the health deterioration. It also has a ****ty CD all things considered. It doesn't contribute Damage or Tankiness on the spot, but gives a mix of Morde's ult with Zilean's ult.
 

_Dice

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
640
What do you mean by "always this good"?

Because let me tell you. Yorick in his old stage was bad. Sheer bad. He had the POTENTIAL to be good, always did, but he never could have been considered decent. He had too many problems.

1. I still dunno if this is fixed or not, but before his Q used to not work with lifesteal. This put him below other characters who Q auto attack and get it.

2. He has magic spells that scale with AD. I still think that's stupid since you're trying to play the character as Tanky DPS AND iirc the Ghoul attacking damage is physical. AND his ghouls scale with tanky DPS stats instead of magical stats.

3. His base spell damage is lower than that of other characters because ghouls are expected to contribute some damage. His ghouls have/had poor AI targeting and lose life so quickly.

4. His ult was subpar because of the health deterioration. It also has a ****ty CD all things considered. It doesn't contribute Damage or Tankiness on the spot, but gives a mix of Morde's ult with Zilean's ult.
1. no good yorick build involves lifesteal
2. having magic damage means you can Mpen mastery and sorc shoes for the mid game to greatly increase your harrassment and burst which works very well with a champ that needs 21 in offensive tree at minimum.
3. the ghouls did contribute at absolute bad luck minimum 20% of total AD. so with 100+ AD at lvl 7 you added 20 damage to every spell base damage and could add up to 60 (though 2 hits was more than the norm for 40 damage when you cast the spells right)
4. the cooldown wasn't that big of a deal. the strength of his ult when it didn't last long was that you could cast it on someone and it absorbs any spell targetted at that champ when the spell is being cast or a skillshot. so you could use it as a semi banshees veil as well. it still has these uses but it's better for it's intended purpose.

he was good. very hard and his job and appearances wasn't pretty but the results definitely spoke for themselves at least when i played yorick.

good meaning viable and improving chances to win by being on a team. not as much a difference as having jarvan or such but definitely improved the odds.

EDIT: I'm not Shaya i have no delusions that a champ is incredible, but yorick certainly was/is not bad and definitely should not be considered unviable. he was above average. but not in the top 15 champs.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
7,605
Location
Ohio
NNID
SonicTheHedgedog
3DS FC
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AD is better. As in... trinity force... inf edge.

If you prefer getting it, philostone is a fine rush on her if your lane sucks.

true story
I prefer having an AP poppy on my team so she can insta kill squishy things... but her passive DOES interact very well with forms of regeneration (like lifesteal) so AD isn't an awful decision.
I truly believe he was always this good.
well, no, he was buffed to be this good BUT he was never as bad as people were acting either. A lot of it was bandwagonism. Yorick was subpar, but not BAD. The fact that people acted like he was an insta-lose was laughable.
 

Zero_Gamer

Smash Master
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
3,134
Location
Reidsville, NC (Not anywhere)
I don't like 21-0-9

I prefer 0-21-9. 5% less damage mastery + ghouls contributing to defense? yes plz. Does his ult contribute to his defense?

I never went negative with old Yorick either, it was wierd, but I still think he was the worst character in the game. Not anymore though, lol. That title goes back to Sivir.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,959
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
1. no good yorick build involves lifesteal
2. having magic damage means you can Mpen mastery and sorc shoes for the mid game to greatly increase your harrassment and burst which works very well with a champ that needs 21 in offensive tree at minimum.
3. the ghouls did contribute at absolute bad luck minimum 20% of total AD. so with 100+ AD at lvl 7 you added 20 damage to every spell base damage and could add up to 60 (though 2 hits was more than the norm for 40 damage when you cast the spells right)
4. the cooldown wasn't that big of a deal. the strength of his ult when it didn't last long was that you could cast it on someone and it absorbs any spell targetted at that champ when the spell is being cast or a skillshot. so you could use it as a semi banshees veil as well. it still has these uses but it's better for it's intended purpose.

he was good. very hard and his job and appearances wasn't pretty but the results definitely spoke for themselves at least when i played yorick.

good meaning viable and improving chances to win by being on a team. not as much a difference as having jarvan or such but definitely improved the odds.

EDIT: I'm not Shaya i have no delusions that a champ is incredible, but yorick certainly was/is not bad and definitely should not be considered unviable. he was above average. but not in the top 15 champs.
No good Yorick build back when he sucked used lifesteal because people were too busy shoring up his lousy stats, mana costs, etc. Manamune to T force, Atmogs, etc. If he was actually decent, people could build wriggles or starks or something giving lifesteal, then Q something and go "Holy **** I don't lifesteal off Q, this sucks". Since he can't lifesteal or vamp off the ghoul AA damage either, there wasn't much draw to building lifesteal on a character that could only lifesteal with his own Auto attacks since his Q sucked **** and was bugged to not work with lifesteal.


Why build magic pen on a TANKY PHYSICALLY INCLINED DPS that has no way to boost his damage besides magic pen and AD? There's no AP ratio for you to combine with magic pen to boost your damage. Furthermore, if you HAVE to build magic pen boots to hit a target for comparable damage that a tanky DPS would hit for regardless of his boots, then you have an issue. Not to mention you're forgoing merc treads on someone who has no leap in (like most good tanky DPS) or anti CC measure. If Riot honestly wanted him to be build with magic pen, I have no doubt they would have given him AP ratios or converted ghoul damage to be magical, or gone further down the magic path. Magic damage on two medium CD spells that you can't increase with AP? And you want me to commit to magic pen boots for that, and end up weaker than other characters in my class anyways because I have no CC reduction or leap in or comparable damage? Cmon.


His ult sucked ****. Period. There's little justification or reasoning for it being good other than usually situational bull.

Name any top or high level player that ever once said "I would like a Yorick on my team instead of a WW, a Xin, a Trundle, a Irelia, a Jarvan, a Nasus, a Renekton, etc." There was NO one who thought he was good. Hell, I doubt anyone was nice enough to call him average lol. The champion when he was first out completely sucked and had:

1. Not enough free stats that other tanky DPS get

2. Not enough guaranteed damage

3. His damage is split too much (Magic damage spells that don't scale with AP, Ghouls do AD damage, lifesteal and vamp not working on them, ghouls die quickly means your damage is lower than other champs, etc)

4. Bugs were very gay against him. No lifesteal on Q whether you will admit it or not is a terrible thing and the move should NOT work that way. There's no point in having a completely worse Trundle Q. No lifesteal, no bonus AD and minus AD for opponent, watching your Q ghoul die and your movement buff be gone, etc.

5. Ghoul AI sucks. There's no sugar coating it. Have you ever Q'd a minion, seen an enemy champion off in the distance, and your ghoul decided to chase them instead of getting minions? Or watch a Ghoul sit there and do nothing while a full wave of minions is right in front of it? You don't get to control what they do, so you have to put trust in them to do anything useful. A lot of times it's hard to get that besides the health stealing ghoul since it auto locks on what you select.


The character sucked. That's it. There's no High ELO banning and picking and CPing going on with the character during that time, and it's not because of some underrating "Well we didn't know he was good" thing. It was because "Hey why play a character that has stupid pet AI, low base damage, conflicting damage sources, awkward timers tied to health on pets, medium CD's, etc when I can play Xin?" and frankly they were right.
 

_Dice

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
640
i use the same build i used pre buff. and it's really alot less about shoring up his weaknesses and more about abusing his strengths.

you get sorc shoes for your mid game where you just be pretty much anywhere a carry is, killing them. and then you switch out of sorc shoes and go to merc treads when things get pretty serious (usually after your atmas).

dorans blade,boots, manamune, sorc shoes, atmas, (sell sorc shoes) merc treads, banshee's veil, trinity, (sell dorans) BC.

he pretty much will just charge in harrass the carry away or kill it, run away, E and W spam until back to half hp, charge in, ult self if it's not used on your carry, and go back to killing everyone else. did the same thing both pre buff and post, post buff he gets back into the fray easier, pre buff you had to use flash to get back in. so now you have exhaust/tp/rally and ghost instead of flash ghost

But you can keep your opinions based on inexperience and i'll keep mine based on practice and repetition.

I don't like 21-0-9

I prefer 0-21-9. 5% less damage mastery + ghouls contributing to defense? yes plz. Does his ult contribute to his defense?

I never went negative with old Yorick either, it was wierd, but I still think he was the worst character in the game. Not anymore though, lol. That title goes back to Sivir.
the issue with 0-21-9 is that his mid game suffers greatly in order to take less damage. 21-0-9 scales him much better with CD, magic pen, crit, AD, crit damage, damage boost ALL of which increase his damage output greatly in the mid game, when you are building your defense items because his natural tankiness allows him to carry through. while 0-21-9 gives him, armor mr earlier on when his laning is superior to everyone, regen when he heals amazingly on his own, HP when he doesn't need the extra boost early on to be dangerous and having his ghouls not even notice it the buff, damage reduction when he has more than enough of this on his own.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,959
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Oh, I see. My bad, I guess I couldn't possibly know that Yorick sucked complete **** pre buff. Didn't watch enough HIGH ELO streams of Chaox playing him and asking "Where the **** is this guy's damage? I hate this champ". Not enough streams of people carrying games with him, going godlike for me to watch. Not enough 24/7 experimentation with the champ, working around his atrocious bugs and AI flaws and base damage split both ways. Not enough courage to pick him in ranked while my team called me racial slurs even though I would go on to carry them with the legendary Manamune to Atmas to Sorc boots WAIT A MINUTE SELLING THEM FOR MERC TREADS after I slaughter their carry with my leet damage don't need health or resistance on godlike Yorick who's already tankier than Jarvan or Irelia.

My bad dood. Guess I missed the Yorick better than average bandwagon that started... a few hours ago even though it wasn't relating to current Yorick either but old stanky stank Yorick who hit like a girl and had worse stats than most tanky DPS and had bad design.

Inexperience for the loss, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Yorick and good in same sentence

MIND BLOWN



lolz. anyways, Dice, what's your tag in game? I wanna play a few games with your Yorick. :p
 

_Dice

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
640
Yorick and good in same sentence

MIND BLOWN



lolz. anyways, Dice, what's your tag in game? I wanna play a few games with your Yorick. :p
dice95 is mine T_T i fell into a greedy greedy trap of playing on a friends account so i wouldn't have to lvl an account i'm a dota vet who was asked to play this game by LoL playing friends and now my account is super low lvl (11) since i've played barely any games on it (54). got lazy.

TLDR or my confusing wording:
i'm too new to LoL to have a lvl 30 though i play ranked and such on a friends account so i am aware of actual play of the game and not just normals.
 

Zero_Gamer

Smash Master
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
3,134
Location
Reidsville, NC (Not anywhere)
the issue with 0-21-9 is that his mid game suffers greatly in order to take less damage. 21-0-9 scales him much better with CD, magic pen, crit, AD, crit damage, damage boost ALL of which increase his damage output greatly in the mid game, when you are building your defense items because his natural tankiness allows him to carry through. while 0-21-9 gives him, armor mr earlier on when his laning is superior to everyone, regen when he heals amazingly on his own, HP when he doesn't need the extra boost early on to be dangerous and having his ghouls not even notice it the buff, damage reduction when he has more than enough of this on his own.
Dang it, this makes so much sense, you're right, but I like being super tank without trying! :/
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
7,605
Location
Ohio
NNID
SonicTheHedgedog
3DS FC
3437-3319-6725
just go 9-21-0 and everyone will be happy . . . right? (never play the guy... just being devil's advocate)

what's he need so badly in utility anyway?
 
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