Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Dre89]

I need to learn a champ that is good at carrying feeding lanes and winning games by themselves. I'm guessing that's what all the high elo players did to get out of the lower divisions. Winning lane isn't enough, I do that all the time at my elo already, I need a champ that can just win a game by themself. So far Ori looks like she'd fit that role, can win lane against anyone, scales well and can win a teamfight with her ult.

Team's shortcoming can always be your downfall... Regardless of role. If anything, jungler is best role at patching short comings, or amplifying the best person on your team.

Jungle is the only role though where you can lose your 'lane' so to speak without actually misplaying/getting outplayed. You can lose a game as a top laner but still have won your lane (probably lost because the rest of your team fed). Whereas as a jungler the top laner being forced out of lane can result in you losing your blue because you had to defend the tower. Your mid laner losing lane can result in the jungler and mid duo roaming into your jungle to kill you and control dragon. When it comes to ganking, if the enemy jungler gets more successful ganks off than you do, it isn't always because their better than you, it can also be related to how safe the respective laners were playing. You just get punished harder for your teammates shortcomings than the laners do.

 

[Player-3]

outside of a complete **** stomp in a lane the jungler has full control of the map, almost everything that happens is on him

 

[Asdioh]

I already had a Gnar in a ranked game. First time, of course. He did reasonably well, but instead of teamfighting with us when we had the lead, he decided to split push (with ignite) and die constantly in 1v1s. Diamond 5 really hasn't been fun at all :/

 

[Dre89]

outside of a complete **** stomp in a lane

You have to remember that I play at an elo (mid silver) where these kind of stomps aren't uncommon. Once a laner is 2-0 or 3-0 the enemy laner can normally 1v2 if they're a strong laner. I 1v2 as Rumble all the time. People at my elo will also push past river without wards for extended periods of time (not all but some do).

I'm not doing the "I always get feeders elo hell etc.." because I do get games where my teammates go even or better and I always win those. It's just that at the moment I don't play champs that can carry hard feeders. I don't want my climbing to rely on whether my team can go even or not.

I assume higher elo players can carry these types of games consistently. Mind you I think some of them just got lucky and got superior teams most of times because some people in the higher elos have the skill levels of silvers or lower.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dre, get out of silver by playing snowbally assassins. Jungle or mid. Burst mages work too, but I straight played Akali out of silver with like a 20-5 record. Note: this doesn't work when your opponents stop being ********.

 

[Dre89]

Dre, get out of silver by playing snowbally assassins. Jungle or mid. Burst mages work too, but I straight played Akali out of silver with like a 20-5 record. Note: this doesn't work when your opponents stop being ********.

I've considered that, my main issue is assassins suck at teamfighting. As in, they can't singlehandedly win a teamfight when your whole team is behind like an Ori ult can.

I bought Fizz and played him twice in ranked after trying him out in a custom (I know that's a dumb idea). First game I won going 7/3/5 and because my team did well, second game I went 17/5/5 and lost because my team sucked.

If you're an assassin and you're trying to hard-carry your team, what do you do if the enemy just groups as 5 and seiges mid or dances around an objective? I really struggle with these situations as an assassin because I feel like I need to initiate if I'm the only one doing well. Problem for me is assassins aren't good at initiating because the initiator is normally supposed to either land AoE CC, or bait out the enemy's CC, and assassins don't have AoE hard CC and don't want to get CC'd.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I've considered that, my main issue is assassins suck at teamfighting. As in, they can't singlehandedly win a teamfight when your whole team is behind like an Ori ult can.

That is actually wrong. Playing assassins in teamfight can be very easy or very difficult, depending on how ahead you are. If you're not extremely ahead, it becomes harder already. It's all about changing your mindset with regards to positioning and when to go in. Watch pro players stream.

If you're an assassin and you're trying to hard-carry your team, what do you do if the enemy just groups as 5 and seiges mid or dances around an objective? I really struggle with these situations as an assassin because I feel like I need to initiate if I'm the only one doing well. Problem for me is assassins aren't good at initiating because the initiator is normally supposed to either land AoE CC, or bait out the enemy's CC, and assassins don't have AoE hard CC and don't want to get CC'd.

There are assassins that are good (decent) at initiating. Mainly the ones that can afford to get Zhonyas, that is.
What you need to do is create enough pressure on the map to force them to move, then pick them off during that rotation. If you have a good teamfight, which I assume you don't because the assassin is the one who needs to initiate, then you can accept the teamfight. This goes back to what I said before. You gotta be opportunistic as ****. Wait for CDs to be blown, wait for them to focus somewhere else, then jump out of nowhere and oneshot their ADC and then work their APC down.

Get an early sweep and pink ward and just sit in their jungle if you're ahead. Works wonders too.

 

[Dre89]

I think the sweeper-pink ward idea is something that I'm gonna try. I don't roam into the enemy jungle enough.

I'm guessing in teamfights you'd have to flank most of the time. I'm assuming on assassins whose gapclosers are apart of their burst damage, you'd just have the use the gapcloser for gapclosing rather than damage (eg. Fizz, Zed sort of).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Make sure to save flash for fights, if that's what you're shooting for. An important difference I've noticed between lower MMR (bronze-gold, even plat to some degree) and higher tiers is proper usage of summoner spells, and people tend to flash like 2 minutes before dragon spawns back up, when you really in some cases should just take the death and save flash for the fight, ya know? Maybe that'll help if you have issues using Fizz E for damage. If you flank properly though, you should be fine most of the time.

If you really want to win teamfights and play an assassin, go Katarina. She doesn't have the greatest pre-6 but its doable and her roams/teamfight are strong, especially on lower elos where people hella wont save their cooldowns for you if you're hiding at first.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah I could try Kat. She can't win lane and is dependent on roams though. I've been kinda turned off her personally because whenever I play a tank I just save my hard CC for her every fight then she just blows up without doing anything. Same reason why I'm not scared of Yi anymore. It's when I play Rumble that I worry about champs like them because I don't have hard CC+burst to stop them. Still she always seems to get fed if she's on my team or if I don't play a hard CC champ so it'd probably work.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah I could try Kat. She can't win lane and is dependent on roams though. I've been kinda turned off her personally because whenever I play a tank I just save my hard CC for her every fight then she just blows up without doing anything. Same reason why I'm not scared of Yi anymore. It's when I play Rumble that I worry about champs like them because I don't have hard CC+burst to stop them. Still she always seems to get fed if she's on my team or if I don't play a hard CC champ so it'd probably work.

You can hella win lane with Kat in silver. And if you, as tank, are in position to stop Katarina, your front line has issues. It's hella workable even if there's like a Thresh support, just wait for them to use their abilities.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Literally just play Akali, she's seriously the dumbest champ.

 

[Zano]

God we've already moved past braum and to a new champ, change the ****ing title already

 

[KuroganeHammer]

God we've already moved past braum and to a new champ, change the ****ing title already

Any suggestions? I'd leave it for OP but he doesn't seem to be here.

 

[Z'zgashi]

We could be unoriginal and use a Gnar pun.

 

[Phantom Gamer]

Are we GNARly enough to do so?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm going back to sleep. I'll check this thread again later and change the title if anyone makes a good suggestion I guess.

 

[john!]

dre. listen to me dre. play karthus bro.

bring exhaust and focus on last hitting with your Q, watching the side lanes when you hit 6, and not dying. just do that for 30 minutes and then win every teamfight cuz you do more damage than their mid (even if it's an assassin like zed/fizz/whatever because you can exhaust them and **** them).

it's so easy and you can destroy most games below gold just by farming and helping side lanes with your ult

 

[Player-3]

no play rengar do the same thing but cooler

 

[Shaya]

AP Ezreal is so gud rite now.
It's just so safe and does so much damage, oh lordie. All that really held the guy back in that regard is itemisation, being given .2 AP ratio on Q to compensate for the lich bane nerfs was a huge buff for normalising the transition between early/middle game (where he was always his weakest / almost useless if he was behind), coupled with the much easier build path and base usefulness of Lich Bane, it's awesome.

Like, 2 items and you have a 2 second 1000 range spell that deals 500+ damage; it's one of the biggest power spikes in this game IMO. W being able to apply on himself buffs his solo lane trading/engaging/pushing in nice ways too.

 

[Player-3]

except for his *absurd* lack of waveclear he's broken

 

[Shaya]

That's helped a bit by the lower mana costs of Q and the extra AP scaling on it (there's been a lot of changes/a long time since I last played AP Ezreal this regularly). But I guess you mean generally handling sieges not just farming capability, it unfortunately relies on his ultimate but it can wreck 3+ waves and if you have a constant stream of things to Q you can have your ult up by every alternating wave.

 

[Ussi]

I have a new found love to build 40% CDR on everyone. Been building ionian boots + 20% CDR item to be able to teamfight/skirmish much sooner just cause its amazing to save those crucial seconds. CDR MF is pretty fun (Which I use brut + essence reaver for CDR).

 

[Dre89]

Yeah I get max CDR on most champs that I play (which are normally tanks and bruisers). The only camps that I don't max it on are champs like Rumble and Fizz who have very specific itemisation and will lose a fair bit by building CDR items.

The way I see it, maxing CDR is efficient who will be able to make use of their CDs as soon as they come off CD most of the time. So a champion like Shen does this because as soon as his ult is up he can go and splitpush. I think it's worth on a lot of junglers too because they can normally gank/make a play as soon as their ult is up.

We could be unoriginal and use a Gnar pun.

Gnar let's not, it'd make me rage.....

...........

...........

 

[Asdioh]

CDR MF is pretty fun (Which I use brut + essence reaver for CDR).

hmm i'm interested but it's probably bad compared to real items like IE and stuff :/

 

[Dre89]

I thought when I got to Silver people would stop feeding every single game.

Never have I been so wrong.

I honestly don't understand how people manage to feed in lane. I can understand getting 1v1d once, and maybe dying to a gank once or twice, but I don't understand how people get 1v1d more than twice in lane. Whenever bot gets a double kill and I see that the jungler didn't get an assist, I'm always puzzled as to how that could happen.

You'd think that people would know by now that when they die, not to walk back into lane and try trade with the laner or walk up and try to CS caster minions as if you didn't just give them 300 gold and a level advantage.

Do people stop doing stuff like this at higher elos?

 

[Ussi]

hmm i'm interested but it's probably bad compared to real items like IE and stuff :/

MF has good AD ratios and essence reaver gives 80 damage now so its not bad. Just lose out of super double hit crits until you get IE later on. But CDR MF is AMAZING for skirmishes cause you have bullet time up every 70 seconds or so. The basis of CDR MF is to do skirmish often since bullet time will be up pretty much every fight. that and double up every 2.5 seconds as well.

Your three CDR items are boots, brut item and essence reaver, so that's 3 items you get LW/IE/defensive item

 

[Dre89]

Two quick questions-

If you're top lane and you're winning your lane, but need to roam because the rest of your team is feeding, should you roam early, or should you focus on getting the tower first then start roaming? If you roam early you could help recover a losing lane early, but it's easier to get penalised for your roam (eg. enemy top has good waveclear). Getting the tower first is more like a long term investment because you sacrifice early roams for making it easier to roam later.

Secondly, if you're a champion whose ult constitutes a significant portion of their damage/ kill potential (eg. Rumble, Riven, Zed etc.) is it worth roaming if your ult isn't up? Obviously if they're standing in the middle of the lane with 30% it'd be worth. I'm talking about more neutral situations when the enemy laner is healthy and isn't particularly extended. One of those roams where you roam because you have nothing else to do in your lane and you want to be efficient with your time.

 

[Ussi]

Counterjungle if mid is pushed

Should have a level or 2 over jungler if he's not fed

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I thought when I got to Silver people would stop feeding every single game.

Never have I been so wrong.

I honestly don't understand how people manage to feed in lane. I can understand getting 1v1d once, and maybe dying to a gank once or twice, but I don't understand how people get 1v1d more than twice in lane. Whenever bot gets a double kill and I see that the jungler didn't get an assist, I'm always puzzled as to how that could happen.

You'd think that people would know by now that when they die, not to walk back into lane and try trade with the laner or walk up and try to CS caster minions as if you didn't just give them 300 gold and a level advantage.

Do people stop doing stuff like this at higher elos?

some characters are good at forcing fights

 

[Sinister Slush]

Kha'zix man.
I honestly had no idea he was getting picked back up in OGN with W or E evolving while maxing W. Now EU and most likely NA /hasis gonna use Kha'zix even more and it'll go back to top three being lee elise and kha, just like the first split of S4 :DDD

But yeah, Kha'zix jungle, try it.

 

[Dre89]

Kha'zix man.
I honestly had no idea he was getting picked back up in OGN with W or E evolving while maxing W. Now EU and most likely NA /hasis gonna use Kha'zix even more and it'll go back to top three being lee elise and kha, just like the first split of S4 :DDD

But yeah, Kha'zix jungle, try it.

What I don't get is why people build tank on him. He's an assassin and has nothing in his kit that compliments tankiness. It probably makes him a better duelist but he can't oneshot carries then leap out if he doesn't go full damage.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've never seen anyone build full tank on Kha'zix since he came back like all the failures in EU/NA doing full tank Rengar.
They build Lizard brut/hex then LW and focus on tank after three damage items. Dunno why you're saying Kha'zix, The Resetreaver, is unable to jump in, Oneshot a carry, and jump out.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

im just saying but hating on full tank rengar seems ********

it worked for them in scrims, hence they tried it in actual games. KR does it too. idk mang

 

[Sinister Slush]

Full tank rengar is fine in 5v5 past Diamond ranked and LCS.
It's not fine in solo queue.

Also sometimes they don't even go tank rengar, they just get two cdr items (lucidity + kindlegem to locket or brut) then just go damage if their Rengar is getting fed in OGN and such.

Also KR =/= NA/EU

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Its still fine in Soloq. Tank Rengar offers a really hard engage still and on top of that, an immense defensive steroid even when using the snare. You'll have enough time to get ferocity back up to get the W heal, too.

It's not optimal in soloQ all the time, but if it fits your playstyle, go ahead. Nightjew is playing tank Gnar in the jungle and doing well, who's giving a ****?

And yeah, KR is not the western scene, still shows that it's workable.

 

[Sinister Slush]

KR does it because they know how to make it work, like the robots usually do. NA/EU constantly losing with it while having a random win here or there doesn't mean they have a decent grasp of it yet.
I mean, when it's so bad with NA/EU that Leddit tries to find gamebreaking Rengar bugs just to have him disabled so teams can stop picking and losing with Rengar. That's saying something lol

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

KR does it because they know how to make it work, like the robots usually do. NA/EU constantly losing with it while having a random win here or there doesn't mean they have a decent grasp of it yet.
I mean, when it's so bad with NA/EU that Leddit tries to find gamebreaking Rengar bugs just to have him disabled so teams can stop picking and losing with Rengar. That's saying something lol

It's like you're trying to stray from the original point.

 

[Sinister Slush]

wut
original point was rengar tank is fine but not all the time.

If that's not it then I don't know nor do I care. P3's Rengar is the best either way.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Full tank rengar is fine in 5v5 past Diamond ranked and LCS.
It's not fine in solo queue.

... NA/EU constantly losing with it while having a random win here or there doesn't mean they have a decent grasp of it yet.
I mean, when it's so bad with NA/EU that Leddit tries to find gamebreaking Rengar bugs just to have him disabled so teams can stop picking and losing with Rengar. That's saying something lol

wut
original point was rengar tank is fine but not all the time.

I mean... Ok.