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Grab release options
- Thread starter Seagull Joe
- Start date
Kuares
Pizza
And there was a bump in the night...*insert whining about how Wolf can't guarantee an air release on any character*
Skip to 0:20 of the following video. This works with Wolf.
Yep, saw it ;D I think it works on Olimar (for Wolf), idk who else though.
The real issue is imo, how easy/reliable is it to actually grab these characters out of the air :/
The real issue is imo, how easy/reliable is it to actually grab these characters out of the air :/
I believe so.
Only issue is, you usually catch people with grabs on their landing since they AD into the ground or suffer landing lag from their aerial. Unless you use grab armor to get them on the way up, grab them before their attack comes out, or grab them after shielding a horribly spaced rising aerial... this shouldn't be happening :/
Only issue is, you usually catch people with grabs on their landing since they AD into the ground or suffer landing lag from their aerial. Unless you use grab armor to get them on the way up, grab them before their attack comes out, or grab them after shielding a horribly spaced rising aerial... this shouldn't be happening :/
Kuares
Pizza
In that video the times he didn't air release, he wasn't late in the grab, he was late with the pummel. Pretty much requires you to press A right after you successfully grab, won't work without it.
Olimar I can't see every being in the air. That and if anyone caught onto the tactic, they could easily bait for grabs or make counter strategies. Will have to wait until I get to play again friday.
Olimar I can't see every being in the air. That and if anyone caught onto the tactic, they could easily bait for grabs or make counter strategies. Will have to wait until I get to play again friday.
KRDsonic
Smash Master
I can't really picture any practical scenarios where Wolf would be able to grab someone out of the air to do this :/
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
This still hasn't been stickied.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Updated with character pictures.
Who can Wolf force an air release on? Cause I rarely see air releases and being able to DACUS a predicted air release on reaction seems a bit... ludicrous.
*shrug*
*shrug*
SinisterB
Smash Champion
You have to build up habits and kind of go with reads, a late Dthrow can always be snuck in if you know or figure they'll try to Ground Release. I mean it's not too bad as long as you have (B)DACUS to the point of chaining it with your eyes closed, but for the most part like I said you just have to feel the opponent out. Not to mention you can clearly tell if they're mashing or not most the time. I agree though it's such a ***** to get most of the time lmao.
We can force AR in certain areas as well, like over an edge obviously, and specific spots depending who you've grabbed. Dash grabs are great for this. Lylat also gives us different GR options based on it's tilt, regular Flash sweetspots turning into spikes (I.e Olimar) being one of the more notable things.
We can force AR in certain areas as well, like over an edge obviously, and specific spots depending who you've grabbed. Dash grabs are great for this. Lylat also gives us different GR options based on it's tilt, regular Flash sweetspots turning into spikes (I.e Olimar) being one of the more notable things.
KRDsonic
Smash Master
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Here's grab release thread, sticky maybe?
grab release thread, sticky maybe?
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
So kain told me that theres a cg on ness and its true we can cg ness across the stage I did it to shaky in grandfinals
Nice, I always knew it was possible frame-wise but sucked at doing it lol. Do you walk > grab or dashgrab?
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
You can dash grab but you gotta do it quick cause if you to slow ness will just jab you out of it
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I'd rather just Dsmash because I won't mess it up. We don't have regrabs on . I hate .
. I hate .
<3I'd rather just Dsmash because I won't mess it up. We don't have regrabs on
Yeah, I thought the Dash-Regrab thing was known about Ness+Wolf. Though that's something to double-check if it's garunteed on him.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Oh haha, I was talking about double-checking on the guaranteed thing with Ness.
With Lucas it's deffo not guaranteed and the only thing Wolf has on him is his Fsmash but that's known and yeah w.r.t. the SDI.
But Lucas' love fighting though, Joe! <3
With Lucas it's deffo not guaranteed and the only thing Wolf has on him is his Fsmash but that's known and yeah w.r.t. the SDI.
But Lucas' love fighting
though, Joe! <3
hey, im the frame expert here plz
Wait, PF is still active? :o
Also, dashgrab should be guaranteed on Ness frame-wise. But I still suck with it lol
Fighting Lucas is so kjdfnvksjdfvnksdfjnv what a nonsense character.
Also, dashgrab should be guaranteed on Ness frame-wise. But I still suck with it lol
Fighting Lucas is so kjdfnvksjdfvnksdfjnv what a nonsense character.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Too hard. And PF is making his return.
hey, im the frame expert here plz
, seems a fellow frame studying for the Wolf boards. I love Lucas' frames, so weird and obscure.Wait, PF is still active? :o
Also, dashgrab should be guaranteed on Ness frame-wise. But I still suck with it lol
Fighting Lucas is so kjdfnvksjdfvnksdfjnv what a nonsense character.
^^^This, PF is making his return it seems from the Lucas boards perspective. A lot of us came back like myself for researching (getting competitive finally) and Pink.Too hard. And PF is making his return.
@Kain: Electric sparkles definitely make a great nuisance for all those grab shenanigans. But the CG you guys have is a bit...I don't want to say useless but it's not really effective since we know how to deal with it fairly easily.
qft
J, how does Lucas deal with the CG? To be honest, I'd rather save myself the time/effort and just dthrow him >_>
Well Lucas is hard to grab originally so people may have CGs on him, but it's not the biggest deal. Another thing Lucas has is, our GR shenanigans aren't as bad as Ness and even though Ness has a worse CG thing from every character, he still ranks higher.
Lucas has fast moves to get you away from us so it's not the best option for the CG because in the end, unless you are like godlike at grabbing, go for the Fsmash or the Dthrow and save yourself the effort.
On Ness however, you guys can mess with him much much more. That's why you have a better MU on Ness than Lucas.
I hope I helped a bit!
Lucas has fast moves to get you away from us so it's not the best option for the CG because in the end, unless you are like godlike at grabbing, go for the Fsmash or the Dthrow and save yourself the effort.
On Ness however, you guys can mess with him much much more. That's why you have a better MU on Ness than Lucas.
I hope I helped a bit!
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
J=JBandit right? When did you move from Md to CO?
Yeah, that's me. However I changed my name on SWF about 2 years ago.
I moved from MD to CO about a month ago and now I live in the Denver area. I stopped Brawl after MLG DC but like lately I've gotten back into it and have been doing well in my area for my first tourny since taking a hiatus.
I moved from MD to CO about a month ago and now I live in the Denver area. I stopped Brawl after MLG DC but like lately I've gotten back into it and have been doing well in my area for my first tourny since taking a hiatus.
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
Wolf is broken
With the kind of ground options that Wolf has, I'm really surprised that I don't see many Wolf players explore their options out of a grounded grab-release. A grab-released opponent cannot buffer a move, essentially giving Wolf +1 frame advantage, which is obviously nice pressure by itself.
Also, Wolf has the tools to make damage and KOs happen with little trouble. D-Smash is immediately threatening, obviously. Characters with a fast "get off me" move can often whiff and/or get punished by a Wolf Down-B -> stuff. Jab is fast and has great range--Definitely something to consider against opponents that can grab out of a grab-release without moving, such as Dedede or Charizard.
A reflexive spotdodge or roll behind Wolf is asking to get caught by a charged D-Smash (or a U-Smash in spotdodge's case). The lean back on Neutral-B might be able to dodge certain moves, though that list of moves is probably small.
Also, opponents who press Jump at a certain point during the grab can get caught by the Forward-B, which can be a game-changer if you don't have much stage control and can Forward-B without dying. That means that grab-release in general seems to have a nice place in Wolf's arsenal, as well as using the stun from a Down-B hit to cause massive pressure. I understand that KOs aren't hard to come by for Wolf, but, every bit helps, you know?
Also, Wolf has the tools to make damage and KOs happen with little trouble. D-Smash is immediately threatening, obviously. Characters with a fast "get off me" move can often whiff and/or get punished by a Wolf Down-B -> stuff. Jab is fast and has great range--Definitely something to consider against opponents that can grab out of a grab-release without moving, such as Dedede or Charizard.
A reflexive spotdodge or roll behind Wolf is asking to get caught by a charged D-Smash (or a U-Smash in spotdodge's case). The lean back on Neutral-B might be able to dodge certain moves, though that list of moves is probably small.
Also, opponents who press Jump at a certain point during the grab can get caught by the Forward-B, which can be a game-changer if you don't have much stage control and can Forward-B without dying. That means that grab-release in general seems to have a nice place in Wolf's arsenal, as well as using the stun from a Down-B hit to cause massive pressure. I understand that KOs aren't hard to come by for Wolf, but, every bit helps, you know?
The hilt of blaster might reach people out of a GR. And my worry with grounded releases is getting my attack shielded because all of our grounded moves are easily punished at that range, sans maybe jab. Wolf's dashgrab is meh and I'd rather take the guaranteed 13% from dthrow, y'know? It already sets up pretty well imo, idk.
KOs aren't hard to come by? Am I really the only one with this issue? ;___;
Also, what are you referring to by the downB usage in the last paragraph? I don't understand how it's tying in with grab releases :x
KOs aren't hard to come by? Am I really the only one with this issue? ;___;
Also, what are you referring to by the downB usage in the last paragraph? I don't understand how it's tying in with grab releases :x
One of Wolf's greatest strengths is the ability to hit people when they can't hit you. Some grab releases put Wolf in a better position to attack immediately than the opponent.The hilt of blaster might reach people out of a GR. And my worry with grounded releases is getting my attack shielded because all of our grounded moves are easily punished at that range, sans maybe jab. Wolf's dashgrab is meh and I'd rather take the guaranteed 13% from dthrow, y'know? It already sets up pretty well imo, idk.
KOs aren't hard to come by? Am I really the only one with this issue? ;___;
Also, what are you referring to by the downB usage in the last paragraph? I don't understand how it's tying in with grab releases :x
The main point is the pressure involved in having the advantage in spacing (Wolf being at his best range, the opponent not so much) and slight frame advantage, piling on great pressure. People will have to mix up their options or pay dearly for it. Anything that allows for basic mix-ups that net you low-damage KOs is excellent, and it's something Wolf can manage really well in this situation.
D-Throw is a great move that still gives Wolf the advantage overall, but, it often doesn't come with the same advantage of optimal spacing for a KO move or great pressure. Knocking most opponents offstage really only applies pressure once they get to the ledge, which some people/characters are more comfortable with, since Wolf's options against opponents on the ledge are limited (though powerful).
In relation to Down-B, you can't Down-B -> D-Smash opponents as a true combo (as far as I know--otherwise, JESUS CHRIST), but having at least +4 frame advantage makes any follow-up to hitting the opponent with Down-B that much safer for Wolf and that much more scary for the opponent. It's like a grab-release in that it's still close to optimal spacing for Wolf after a Down-B.
Guaranteed damage out of these things is nice, but, why forego the chance to KO an opponent at 115% for a little more damage with D-Throw/Jab when it will probably reset the situation in a lot of match-ups? The KO potential can save you a lot of trouble.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Dthrow does 12%. Every other throw does 7%.The hilt of blaster might reach people out of a GR. And my worry with grounded releases is getting my attack shielded because all of our grounded moves are easily punished at that range, sans maybe jab. Wolf's dashgrab is meh and I'd rather take the guaranteed 13% from dthrow, y'know? It already sets up pretty well imo, idk.
KOs aren't hard to come by? Am I really the only one with this issue? ;___;
Also, what are you referring to by the downB usage in the last paragraph? I don't understand how it's tying in with grab releases :x
Actually, jumpshine>Dsmash "can" true combo. It's position dependent. You have to js somebody at a specific height in the air and they would be right above the ground and get hit. Also if you shine>Dsmash somebody who is jumping on stage over the edge it true combos as well. I believe Lucien used to do this.
's strongest move will always be Usmash 2nd hit. Killing absurdly early, but it isn't reliable in how an opponent will get hit by it. Insane kill power though. I'm not a huge fan of ground releasing opponents personally. Nothing is guaranteed and if I do opt to Dsmash it's usually Ps'd on reaction. Dthrow does a good amount of damage and true combos with laser most of the time at percents it floors. It also sets up to gimp and even follow up people. When they're on the floor Dacus out of Dthrow is usually a good option that only loses out to get up attack. We also have advantage if they tech a Dthrow. Tech away we can Fsmash. Tech in front of us jab is guaranteed. Dthrow is broken.
M.C. Pee-Pants
Smash Journeyman
Yeah the ps thing after a grab release usually happens to me I personally just try and go for a regrab if they decide to the opponet decides to stay in his shiedl also we have a shine to fsmash is a true combo that I did on marth after I countered his follow with a foward throw and yeah dthrow is really extremely broken for fox cause if the fox techs it its an automatic regrabDthrow does 12%. Every other throw does 7%.
Actually, jumpshine>Dsmash "can" true combo. It's position dependent. You have to js somebody at a specific height in the air and they would be right above the ground and get hit. Also if you shine>Dsmash somebody who is jumping on stage over the edge it true combos as well. I believe Lucien used to do this.
I'm not a huge fan of ground releasing opponents personally. Nothing is guaranteed and if I do opt to Dsmash it's usually Ps'd on reaction. Dthrow does a good amount of damage and true combos with laser most of the time at percents it floors. It also sets up to gimp and even follow up people. When they're on the floor Dacus out of Dthrow is usually a good option that only loses out to get up attack. We also have advantage if they tech a Dthrow. Tech away we can Fsmash. Tech in front of us jab is guaranteed. Dthrow is broken.