Grab Influences. ~

[Ulevo]

In Brawl, there are a multitude of ways to influence how a character breaks free from a grab, both by the grabber and the grabee. If a player who is being grabbed managed to break free by mashing the controls associated with the Jump feature, that character will perform a Jump Break. All characters are capable of doing this, but it requires you to break free and it differs from Melee where holding the joystick up was the only requirement. If a player is grabbing an opponent, they can force a Ground Break where the opponent is released in front of them by repeatedly mashing the button that attacks while grabbing. This is relatively simple and only requires you don't throw your opponent and that they don't break free.

But this isn't the only way to influence grabs. If a player who is grabbing voluntarily releases the character being grabbed, or if the player being grabbed mashes the buttons to break free that are not associated with the Jump feature, the way they break free is predetermined by how high they are from the ground while being held. If a character is high off the ground, they will likely perform a Jump Break upon voluntary release, while if a character breaks free when low to or standing on the ground, they will perform a Ground Break and be released in front of the grabber.

This is useful for damage set ups and KO set ups, and is an effective alternative to simply throwing after a grab. i.e. Marth vs Meta Knight always guarantees a released grab to tipped Fair, Marth vs Wario always guarantees a released grab to FSmash, Marth vs Ness always guarantees a released grab to DSmash, et cetera.

Below are the list of characters that break free from Marth through the air, and onto the ground:




Zelda/Sheik: Ground
Diddy Kong: Ground
Peach: Ground
Ganondorf: Ground
King Dedede: Ground
Wolf: Ground
Lucario: Ground
Sonic: Ground
Captain Falcon: Ground
ROB: Ground
Bowser: Ground
Falco: Ground
Charizard: Ground
Zamus: Ground
Samus: Ground
Link: Ground
Donkey Kong: Ground
Fox: Ground
Pit: Ground
Marth: Ground
Ike: Ground
Snake: Ground


Wario: Air
Toon Link: Air
Olimar: Air
Jigglypuff: Air
Lucas: Air
Ness: Air
Ice Climbers: Air
Yoshi: Air
Luigi: Air
Meta Knight: Air
Ivysaur: Air
Squirtle: Air
G&W: Air
Pikachu: Air
Kirby: Air
Mario: Air

 

[Onichi]

When they are released into the air is it a set distance like on the ground? I know its hard to test but it could lead to what best to follow up a release grab with, Utilt, Upsmash or Fsmash.

Ground is usually down or foward tilt, since most (save Ness) can recover kinda quick on the ground.

 

[Ulevo]

Yes it is. They will fly a certain distance, depending on which character it is, before they can do anything. Some can react before you do anything, such as Jigglypuff, but it at least positions them for another follow up. Others are really bad though, such as Meta Knight and Wario, and they're helpless when you let them go.

Tipped Fair on Meta Knight is too good, and Dolphin Slash on Meta Knight is even sexier. New Meta Knight Marth tech for the win.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm starting to look at this more, and it is becoming increasingly useable. Marth officially owns Wario with a reverse stutter stepped FSmash from the Release. Squirtle is owned by a walking tipped FSmash. Jigglypuff can be Uair'd from this. Pikachu can be Fair'd and hit with the Dash Attack. Mario, Olimar, G&W, Kirby and Toon Link can all be Uair and Fair'd... I think this is very promising.

 

[BacklashMarth]

This is interesting. I might b able to use this.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth can own MK pretty hard with this.

He can CG with it if Marth is fast enough. He can also get a free Dancing Blade or sweetspotted U-smash.

 

[Ulevo]

Marth can own MK pretty hard with this.

He can CG with it if Marth is fast enough. He can also get a free Dancing Blade or sweetspotted U-smash.

I don't know if Marth can CG with this, since his arm extends down while grabbing. At least I couldn't when I attempted it on my friend earlier. The rest works though.

 

[Roy_R]

I don't know if Marth can CG with this, since his arm extends down while grabbing. At least I couldn't when I attempted it on my friend earlier. The rest works though.

watch my vids vs stlitzkin

 

[Roy_R]

I don't know if Marth can CG with this, since his arm extends down while grabbing. At least I couldn't when I attempted it on my friend earlier. The rest works though.

watch my vids vs stlitzkin

 

[ice_cream_man]

where are they?

 

[RT]

watch my vids vs stlitzkin

This man knows what he's doing.

 

[ZHMT]

I tried using the dolphin slash on MK using this technique, but for some reason he gets his shield up. I think Im doing it wrong. Do you just have to guess when he will get out of the grab? Or is there a way to control it?

 

[Ulevo]

I tried using the dolphin slash on MK using this technique, but for some reason he gets his shield up. I think Im doing it wrong. Do you just have to guess when he will get out of the grab? Or is there a way to control it?

You're doing it wrong. Either you are releasing MK on the ground or you're not dashing towards MK quickly.

 

[VietGeek]

Okay, I've tried the set-up with Wario, and while I kinda just walked up a step toward and Fsmashed reversed for tipper action, it did the job (Isn't stutterstepping the little halfstep lunge Marth takes when using Control stick+A for smashes?). I saw a lv. 9 CPU could do a jump in one of my attempts, and while he still got KO'd, made me question if Wario can DI out.

I was wondering though, is there anyway to influence those who are by default released to the ground to go up in the air, and vice-versa assuming the grab release occurs on, say the middle of Final Destination (flat surface; lands on flat surface).

Also, for say, MK, whose grab release animation after consistent grab jabs lunges him back toward Marth, would it be possible to chaingrab? I am assuming a surefire yes should the MK fail to DI properly, but with the account of DI, I know CPUs are inconsistent, falling for some, but not others. Taking the overall inconsistency (seemingly sandbag-ish nature), it's difficult to tell analyzing their actions.

 

[ZHMT]

You're doing it wrong. Either you are releasing MK on the ground or you're not dashing towards MK quickly.

When I release him, he flys back a little and lands in the ground. Im just grabbing and mashing a to avoid a escape.

 

[VietGeek]

When I release him, he flys back a little and lands in the ground. Im just grabbing and mashing a to avoid a escape.

Don't mash or MK will have a different release animation that will allow him to escape and shield if he's smart. Just grab and don't do anything, they'll struggle away and they'll fly a good distance away, but be allowed to eat an attack of choice.

 

[DireklianCliff]

This is very interesting! I'll have to test it out. Thanks!

 

[OmegaSephiroth]

Wow, this is full of win. Thanks!

 

[Steel]

Video coming soon folks.

 

[ZHMT]

Yeah, I was trying this out just now, wario is just hilarious, its awesome what this does to him. I still have trouble with meta though. So if anyone makes a vid of this (Steel2nd) ,if you can show it dome to MK itll be appreciated.

 

[Steel]

Yeah, I was trying this out just now, wario is just hilarious, its awesome what this does to him. I still have trouble with meta though. So if anyone makes a vid of this (Steel2nd) ,if you can show it dome to MK itll be appreciated.

Vid is uploading now against MK.

 

[ZHMT]

Vid is uploading now against MK.

Awesome, thanks a ton.

 

[∫unk]

This is the most important recent discovery on Marth by far.

Vids/testing/everything needs to happen.

I'll try this out on Wed.

 

[undyinglight]

Is their a universal option that will work against all charactrs released on the ground? Is their a universal option that will work on all character relaesed in the air?

 

[∫unk]

In Brawl, there are a multitude of ways to influence how a character breaks free from a grab, both by the grabber and the grabee. If a player who is being grabbed managed to break free by mashing the controls associated with the Jump feature, that character will perform a Jump Break. All characters are capable of doing this, but it requires you to break free and it differs from Melee where holding the joystick up was the only requirement. If a player is grabbing an opponent, they can force a Ground Break where the opponent is released in front of them by repeatedly mashing the button that attacks while grabbing. This is relatively simple and only requires you don't throw your opponent and that they don't break free.

But this isn't the only way to influence grabs. If a player who is grabbing voluntarily releases the character being grabbed, or if the player being grabbed mashes the buttons to break free that are not associated with the Jump feature, the way they break free is predetermined by how high they are from the ground while being held. If a character is high off the ground, they will likely perform a Jump Break upon voluntary release, while if a character breaks free when low to or standing on the ground, they will perform a Ground Break and be released in front of the grabber.

Okay I'm still a little unclear on what you're saying... if I've read correctly it's that:
• Lighter characters will always (you say "likely") perform a jump break on a voluntary release, even if they mash buttons not associated with the jump button because they are higher up when they are grabbed.
• Heaver characters can either jump break (by hitting the jump button to escape the grab) or a ground break for a voluntary release.
• All characters are forced to ground break if they are being grab attacked while trying to break.
• You can set up various moves following the breaks.

Can you clarify on these points?

 

[Steel]

Okay I'm still a little unclear on what you're saying... if I've read correctly it's that:
• Lighter characters will always (you say "likely") perform a jump break on a voluntary release, even if they mash buttons not associated with the jump button because they are higher up when they are grabbed.
• Heaver characters can either jump break (by hitting the jump button to escape the grab) or a ground break for a voluntary release.
• All characters are forced to ground break if they are being grab attacked while trying to break.
• You can set up various moves following the breaks.

Can you clarify on these points?

Look at my thread and notice that his feet are not on the ground when I am holding him. If you are not jabbing him by the time he is about to release then he WILL do a jump release (a very laggy jump at that) giving marth the opportunity to follow it up with something.

 

[∫unk]

Look at my thread and notice that his feet are not on the ground when I am holding him. If you are not jabbing him by the time he is about to release then he WILL do a jump release (a very laggy jump at that) giving marth the opportunity to follow it up with something.

So that confirms my first point.. what about the others? That means this is useful on lighter characters because you know for a fact how they're going to escape, but heavier characters can do the jump and ground break?

For heavier characters there should be some guaranteed follow ups depending on how they break out....

 

[Steel]

So that confirms my first point.. what about the others? That means this is useful on lighter characters because you know for a fact how they're going to escape, but heavier characters can do the jump and ground break?

For heavier characters there should be some guaranteed follow ups depending on how they break out....

Well Wario is kind of heavy and he still jump releases because he is so short. It has nothing to do with weight, just how high they are off the ground.

I don't know of any true follow ups for heavy characters however.

 

[∫unk]

Well Wario is kind of heavy and he still jump releases because he is so short. It has nothing to do with weight, just how high they are off the ground.

I don't know of any true follow ups for heavy characters however.

Right... I knew someone would point out that it's not truly light and heavy.

I was going to say floatier characters versus heavy but that's also not completely true.

In general though smaller characters are lighter and floatier, which makes it easy to remember who does jump escapes.

 

[meepxzero]

broken lol makes fd actually good for marth now

 

[Emblem Lord]

This...DESTROYS Ness and Wario.

G&W too.

Vs Ness you can do pretty much anything, I'm not joking. Best thing is just to stutter step forward to charged F-smash and it will tipper if done correctly.

Vs G&W just foxtrot forward once then you can tipper D-smash. You can also get an U-smash or Dancing Blade.

Pika gets off easy. You can DB and dash attack. I think that's it.

Wario is lol. Tipper F-smash and you don't even have to try.

 

[mr_kennedy44]

Nice to know that this works well against G&W.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Poor Yoshi.

Free spike, DB, Dolphin Slash, or U-smash.

Anyone notice that this just helps Marth **** characters that he already had advantage on? Cept MK of course.

 

[IDK]

When they are released into the air is it a set distance like on the ground? I know its hard to test but it could lead to what best to follow up a release grab with, Utilt, Upsmash or Fsmash.

Ground is usually down or foward tilt, since most (save Ness) can recover kinda quick on the ground.

if you followed with an up b, wouldn't you hit no matter which type of escape they did?

 

[Onichi]

if you followed with an up b, wouldn't you hit no matter which type of escape they did?

In the air, more then likely, as for ground, I don't know, can't check, at work.
I'll get back to you on that if no one beats me too it.

Regardless if you can hit all the time or not, I wouldn't connect with the Up B that much, personally I like to save it and keep it fresh from Stale-Move, so you don't have it too weak to kill when needed. Save it for a grab to kill or to an out of shield kill.

 

[Steel]

K, what emblem lord posted about game and watch does NOT work. He can jump out pretty dang early and avoid any contact.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah. This stuff is misleading because it counts as a combo in practice mode, but some characters can jump out early.

But alot of the stuff vs MK still works so who cares. lol.

 

[Steel]

Confirmed against Meta Knight:
Fair
Dair
Dancing Blade
Up Smash
Dolphin Slash**

**Probably anyway, the counter in training mode registered it as a combo but I will need to test it against a human to see if it really works. Either way there are better options than this move.

 

[ZHMT]

I noticed everyone is focusing on destroying MK lol.

A few times meta was able to avoid a upsmash or fair with his up b (Please no). Maybe my timing was just off. But it should be mentioned.

 

[meepxzero]

weird....i just noticed dash grab has a huge effect on how far they fly away from the grab release. it doesnt count as a combo in training mode if u do a standing grab but a dash grab it combos.

If this has been mention ignore plz <<