Grab Influences. ~

[VietGeek]

weird....i just noticed dash grab has a huge effect on how far they fly away from the grab release. it doesnt count as a combo in training mode if u do a standing grab but a dash grab it combos.

If this has been mention ignore plz <<

Not exactly free at this moment to see for myself, so I'll ask...

does the dashgrab increase the distance of the release, or what? Also, since the combo display in Training Mode is deceiving, I'm guessing the last part of your message isn't really important in a real match (unless what grab you use dictates the amount of time your foe has to react to the release/other factors I am not considering at 1:54 AM).

 

[meepxzero]

it slightly shortens the distance so its more of a guaranteed fair/usmash/forward b cuz metaknight doesnt flig as far back but yah u have to test it on humans im going by what training mode says cuz i was originally using standing grab and it didnt count as consecutive hits but with dash grab it worked.

 

[Warlock*G]

I'm starting to look at this more, and it is becoming increasingly useable. Marth officially owns Wario with a reverse stutter stepped FSmash from the Release. Squirtle is owned by a walking tipped FSmash. Jigglypuff can be Uair'd from this. Pikachu can be Fair'd and hit with the Dash Attack. Mario, Olimar, G&W, Kirby and Toon Link can all be Uair and Fair'd... I think this is very promising.

Very promising my ***... another bull**** glitch making the game unbalanced. Am I the only one who likes my games balanced, go****it?!!

Edit: on second thought... it doesn't matter. I'll still have fun playing that game once a month, just like I do now.

 

[Emblem Lord]

**** you and get out.

META F*GGOT IS GOING DOWN!!!!!!

 

[Kizzu-kun]

it slightly shortens the distance so its more of a guaranteed fair/usmash/forward b cuz metaknight doesnt flig as far back but yah u have to test it on humans im going by what training mode says cuz i was originally using standing grab and it didnt count as consecutive hits but with dash grab it worked.

Its seems to be the same distance for me.

 

[∫unk]

Very promising my ***... another bull**** glitch making the game unbalanced. Am I the only one who likes my games balanced, go****it?!!

Edit: on second thought... it doesn't matter. I'll still have fun playing that game once a month, just like I do now.

This post is worthless. Melee wasn't balanced and people loved that game. 64 wasn't balanced and people loved that game. Brawl isn't balanced, but this isn't significantly affecting it, and people love Brawl.

And this isn't close to a glitch. This is simply abusing recovery time after a grab release.

 

[Warlock*G]

**** you and get out.

META F*GGOT IS GOING DOWN!!!!!!

A little excited are we?

What, you make a whole topic ("sigh" ), crying about how you're so sad that you feel that Marth won't win tourneys regularly, but I can't express myself in a couple of tiny little posts? Not fair.

Not only are you disrespectful, but you're also a hypocrite. Congrats.

I tried being nice when I sent you a private message you about how you "felt". I didn't say "**** you and get out", far from it.

Listen now. I like my games balanced, and this new discovery seems to make Brawl even less balanced than it was before. It isn't just about Wario vs Marth here, it's about *the whole **** competitive game* being weakened by being more and more centered on one thing: grab releases, since combos just about don't exist anymore.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong here? Or will another fine individual come to tell me "**** you and get out"?

This post is worthless. Melee wasn't balanced and people loved that game. 64 wasn't balanced and people loved that game. Brawl isn't balanced, but this isn't significantly affecting it, and people love Brawl.

And this isn't close to a glitch. This is simply abusing recovery time after a grab release.

Call it however you wanna call it. Oh, and I *know* Melee and SSB64 weren't balanced. But Brawl seems to be even less balanced than those two, by a large margin.

As for those grab releases not significantly affecting the game... of course it does! Half the roster releases in the air and is at risk of being hit when it does. Why time your attacks anymore when some characters can just CG, or just time their grabs or do both?

I think grabs are taking a disproportionate place in Brawl's picture, and I think *that* is the sign of a competitive game being less diverse and thus, less attractive. That's all.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

There isn't such thing as balanced game, the characters are not equal.
A character can be better by little or by great difference, but this doesn't implies that a tactic is viable or not, or if its good or not for the game.

 

[Warlock*G]

There isn't such thing as balanced game, the characters are not equal.

Well duh, I know that. It's just that Brawl seems way too much unbalanced for my taste, that's all. I'm *comparing* Brawl to Melee right now. ****, I didn't think my posts were *that* hard to decipher...

Edit: And I'll tell you what's "bad" for the game. Unbalanced game = less "viable" characters in competitive play = less diversity = less suspense in tourneys = less competitive fun = less interesting vids to watch.

That's the way I see it anyway.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

But that is what I'm saying...
So why are you worrying about?

The game never will be balanced, so that doesn't make sense to wish that he become more balanced.
That is expecting too much about the game. XD

Anyway, I do not agree with Emblem Lord's post too, just to clarify.

 

[Warlock*G]

But that is what I'm saying...
So why are you worrying about?

The game never will be balanced, so that doesn't make sense to wish that he become more balanced.
That is expecting too much about the game. XD.

I know, I know... but haven't you ever played a game, then thought about what it *could* have been? And it seems that these discoveries about grabs are only making things worse. Of course, that's alright. It's all about discovering the metagame, and the show must go on.

But I still wanna tell all of you what I think about these new tricks, and about Brawl in general. That's all.

Anyway, I do not agree with Emblem Lord's post too, just to clarify.

That's because there was nothing to agree with.

Anyway, good night.

Bonne Saint-Jean Baptiste!

 

[VietGeek]

Its seems to be the same distance for me.

I'd have to say I think this applies to me too. I can't really see a significant change in distance here. I only know that the CPU 9 once set-up off the stage, will noticeably predict my movements and DI oh so well (and most characters are a little harder to follow up on off stage as they have more room to move), or screw off and eat the most ridiculous gimps.

Ah, and I'm pretty sure EL was joking. The overall structuring of that post made it look very un-serious. <_<

Now if it's serious, one or/and two questions should probably be answered:

1. Now that you are 21 EL, how often do you get a drink?
2. If the above question is answered with the regards to the fact that you do indeed drink...

how much do you drink?

Lol, just kidding. Okay, I kinda want an answer, lulz.

As for this little balancing "argument," never played SSB64, but isn't it noticeably more unbalanced than say, Melee? Excuse me for my ignorance.

 

[Warlock*G]

Ah, and I'm pretty sure EL was joking. The overall structuring of that post made it look very un-serious. <_<

Mmmmaybe... this was unlike him at least... but then again I don't know him other than through a forum, so...

As for this little balancing "argument," never played SSB64, but isn't it noticeably more unbalanced than say, Melee? Excuse me for my ignorance.

You're right to put it in quotes... that wasn't really an argument, since it seems Kizzu and I are both agreeing after all. And I don't know about the degree of balance of SSB64 compared to Melee... I just know that Brawl is **** unbalanced that's all. "****" being a subjective term, of course, so it can mean anything from "you vs King Kong" unbalanced to "Chess" unbalanced.

But really, at the rate this is going, I'm leaning more towards the "you vs King Kong" route. :/

 

[meepxzero]

o well i guess training mode does weird **** that regular brawl doesnt do

 

[_Kadaj_]

That's so true all u have to do is throw the cpu up then turn a certain direction and the cpu will d.I. In the opposite direction

 

[undyinglight]

If the Smash bros. games were balanced(which they are not) their wouldn't be a tier list.

 

[Ulevo]

For those who are interested, all of the follow ups for the Grab Release have been posted in my Guide. Check them out if you're interested.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Chill out Warlock. I was kidding.

Edit: I don't drink. I abhor alcohol. I only drank on my birthday because my friends kept bugging me, so I said "**** it" and drank with them.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Thàts true in all honesty there isn't any fighting game on the face of this planet that is balanced if it was the case than every single character would be the same lolz

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

not all of those work, especially not up-smash on metaknight.. wtf? fix this immediately

 

[Kizzu-kun]

o well i guess training mode does weird **** that regular brawl doesnt do

Yes, this is true.

I was testing the Release against Toon Link, its commutates consecutive hits with a Up Smash.
The thing was: I started jumping with Toon Link manually, and done the exact same thing.

Toon Link jumps, Marth Up Smashs him, and does commutates consecutive hits.

Moral of the story: the hit counter in the Training Mode is flawed to bring any kind of conclusion.

Also DI is not possible from any releases.

 

[Ulevo]

not all of those work, especially not up-smash on metaknight.. wtf? fix this immediately

You obviously don't know what you're doing. If you hit with the hitbox inside Marths model from a Hyphen Smash, you can hit Meta Knight before he can react from this.

 

[Anth0ny]

Training mode isn't exactly the best way to test this. The same goes for level 9 CPUs. At least I hope, considering the CPU MK is able to jump before I could do anything after the grab release.

I've yet to try this against some humans. It looks very promising, but I'm not sure if it will become a standard technique for Marth. Besides, it pretty much only works well on FD.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Just testing this theory the release grab on mk isn't the greatest thing to do I've messed around and done it with yoshi but when his release animation happens you have to run after him in order to grab again with yoshi. I'll post tommorow about how and if it can be done with marth. But as far as new techniques and discoveries go it's best to do and try them on real people that are good and are aware of d.I. and also knowing how to escape release grabs (for characters it can't be done on)

 

[Steel]

Training mode isn't exactly the best way to test this. The same goes for level 9 CPUs. At least I hope, considering the CPU MK is able to jump before I could do anything after the grab release.

I've yet to try this against some humans. It looks very promising, but I'm not sure if it will become a standard technique for Marth. Besides, it pretty much only works well on FD.

This will be very useful in the future, i can guarantee that.

 

[Ulevo]

Just testing this theory the release grab on mk isn't the greatest thing to do I've messed around and done it with yoshi but when his release animation happens you have to run after him in order to grab again with yoshi. I'll post tommorow about how and if it can be done with marth. But as far as new techniques and discoveries go it's best to do and try them on real people that are good and are aware of d.I. and also knowing how to escape release grabs (for characters it can't be done on)

This is more or less the practice of landing attacks out of a voluntarily released grab then it is repeatedly grabbing the opponent again. Marth can only do this with Ness, Lucas and Squirtle. Also, you cannot DI Grab Releases or Release Grabs. And I assure you, the ones posted in my thread work, and work very well.

 

[_Kadaj_]

That's cool. I know you can't di release grabs but for some characters they can immediatly sheild afterwards like peach for instance. We should compose a list on the characters that can escape setups following after a release grab. I like to d-smash or sword dance after release grabs but I don't really release grab often as a setup. Not saying it can't be effective I'm pretty sure they probably do work

 

[Ulevo]

That's cool. I know you can't di release grabs but for some characters they can immediatly sheild afterwards like peach for instance. We should compose a list on the characters that can escape setups following after a release grab. I like to d-smash or sword dance after release grabs but I don't really release grab often as a setup. Not saying it can't be effective I'm pretty sure they probably do work

Grab Releases that involve Ground Breaks are rarely ever useful aside from characters that can be caught in Release Grabs, or with potential mind games. Grab Releases involving Jump Breaks however are very useful, as certain attacks are guaranteed on certain characters if perfected. Wario, G&W, Meta Knight, PK Trainer, Jiggs and Mario are all severely affected by these. It also affects Pikachu, Yoshi, and works on a solo Ice Climber. I'm quite sure separate tactics could be abused in conjunction with this to kill off Ice Climbers quickly actually, as you can guarantee a Dair Spike if Popo/Nana are grabbed near a ledge.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Grab Releases that involve Ground Breaks are rarely ever useful aside from characters that can be caught in Release Grabs, or with potential mind games. Grab Releases involving Jump Breaks however are very useful, as certain attacks are guaranteed on certain characters if perfected. Wario, G&W, Meta Knight, PK Trainer, Jiggs and Mario are all severely affected by these. It also affects Pikachu, Yoshi, and works on a solo Ice Climber. I'm quite sure separate tactics could be abused in conjunction with this to kill off Ice Climbers quickly actually, as you can guarantee a Dair Spike if Popo/Nana are grabbed near a ledge.

Oooooo I see what your saying now i wasn't aware that you were talking about jump breaks. It all makes since now you see I didn't read that part of the guide and going off what the others were saying I was under the impression that they were talking about from normal releases not jump breaks

 

[meepxzero]

yah im questioning if the release grab to usmash works on metaknight as well. Even if you dash a little further to usmash mk they still can jump and air dodge instantly to escape it.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

no meep we obviously don't know what we're doing, Ulevo is clearly superior

 

[Ulevo]

no meep we obviously don't know what we're doing, Ulevo is clearly superior

It's okay, I forgive you. Not everyone is born equal, amirite?

 

[Anth0ny]

AHAHAHAHA OH WOW.

I just tested this against Wario. The matchup is a joke now. Free tipped fsmashes

 

[Kizzu-kun]

yah im questioning if the release grab to usmash works on metaknight as well. Even if you dash a little further to usmash mk they still can jump and air dodge instantly to escape it.

I didn't get that working in a versus match.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

up smash doesn't work

 

[Roy_R]

i thought it did when I found this out back in April, MK would die around 120% from the up smash so i started setting up for this, I thought the spike worked too! cuz I landed it a few times, but it doesn't, it's not guaranteed....=[

 

[_Kadaj_]

yah im questioning if the release grab to usmash works on metaknight as well. Even if you dash a little further to usmash mk they still can jump and air dodge instantly to escape it.

I think it can work on mk's that don't know about it but after maybe the second or third time their going to catch on and start air dodging I know this because I've actually done it today not to long ago but as more and more matches were played that setup initially went down the drain. Its more of a thing you do once in a blue moon rather than a setup that'll work all the time (on meta knight)

 

[Ulevo]

Edit: USmash doesn't work.

 

[VietGeek]

The USmash DOES work. I didn't think so until Emblem Lord pointed it out. Once I get my Dazzle in, which should be in the next 4-7 days I'm assuming, I'm going to make a video displaying the uses of this and how it can be applied. If you dash the moment you can out of Marths lag, he will hit Meta Knight. The Dair is questionable, but I have been able to nail that too. So far, the hardest one to hit with was the Fair on Pikachu. Attempting that is exceptionally difficult, but possible. I can do it quite consistently in 1/4 speed.

Well, Emblem Lord makes mistakes too. He's only human ya know.

But...okay. Show the video so I can see you do it, since I've failed doing the Grab Release to Usmash set-up now as well.

I also question the Dair set-up. Unless you're not suppose to jump to negate the Dair momentum, I haven't been able to get that set-up to work either once MK escapes off the stage.

So yes, videos please.

 

[_Kadaj_]

It can work on mk but its not a definite hit do to the fact that he can air dodge by the time you get to that point. But dairs can work on some characters such as a single ice climber there are others but I've have only done it to mk and ice climbers. But its not definite for mk