Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[phi1ny3]

I was practicing Sheik today, and I was practicing b-reversal needle out of the initial dash, but then I did a grounded melee b-reversal out of the initial dash. So basically instead of turning around and recovering the distance, I kept my initial momentum and direction and just turned around without going the opposite direction. Does anybody know the timing for this or have a method for performing this? I have a guess as to how to do it, but I haven't been able to do it consistently enough.

Seems like a b-turnaround (basically turning around without the momentum), as opposed to a b-reversal (which does change your momentum). Obviously the only way you're going to do that while dashing is buffered, so <3 is correct. But it is applicable in other scenarios too.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I dont know the frame data but sonics screech stop is very fast and is encouraged to be used in certain mindgaming situations.

ill probably be trying to implement the same kind of thing with sheik.

 

[<π]

sheik initial dash animation is one of the best in the game if not the best in terms of time.

 

[-Cross-]

So I've played Sheik a decent amount, and I've noticed, a couple of her weakest zones, I guess would be the right word. Above the opponent in the air and off stage seem to be the most obvious, and I don't know what to say about Sheik on the ledge. She has very nice options and good invincibility on some of them too, but due to her bad horizontal air mobility, I can see her get easily screwed over by good baiting/spacing by a character with a disjointed hitbox. So on that note, are there any more zones I should be aware of and do you agree with my own assessment of her weaknesses?

On that note, I have been thinking (theorycrafting, oh no) about some options which I think she could utilize when she is juggled that I don't think many Sheiks have commonly implemented. I have also discussed with a couple other Sheik mains over skype about this, but I want to know everybody else's opinions.

1. B-reversal needle: Standard momentum shifter, has use for any character that wants to escape being juggled. The only problem is that again (arrgh) Sheik horizontal air mobility is not great so she doesn't go very far/opponent's with a lot of horizontal range on their uairs or good air mobility can still catch her very easily. In my experience, it's useful but it's not a solid answer to most scenarios where reverse specials are applicable. Although I have to say, turnaround b-reversal in the air may be nice.

2. Footstooling: This is actually a very specific tactic that any character can use, but with a character like Sheik who is very limited in her recovery from being juggled it should be implemented. Footstooling, however, is also very specific and can't be used in most situations. However, it is a very good counter to many common situations you may see, MK tornadoing below you or a character baiting an air dodge and charging a smash attack.

3: Vanish: This tactic is like my biggest question for this post. I talked to Renki and <3 about this, and from there responses, it does not seem to be a common option used, if it's used at all. Basically, you sacrifice a little vertical distance that takes you further away from the ground and a bit of vulnerability, but you have the option to go anywhere after that. Depending on your positioning, your options can range from landing with zero landing lag, going to the ledge, or landing far away from your opponent, so you can't be punished. Either way, this tactic seems to have a lot of good options, although it is heavily dependent on your own ability to not be predictable, and certain characters may be very good at covering multiple options. As I stated previously, what are your thoughts on this tactic?

So anyway I assumed that these options weren't used much, but if you already used these options on a regular basis, please post about how effective said option was.

 

[Judo777]

So I've played Sheik a decent amount, and I've noticed, a couple of her weakest zones, I guess would be the right word. Above the opponent in the air and off stage seem to be the most obvious, and I don't know what to say about Sheik on the ledge. She has very nice options and good invincibility on some of them too, but due to her bad horizontal air mobility, I can see her get easily screwed over by good baiting/spacing by a character with a disjointed hitbox. So on that note, are there any more zones I should be aware of and do you agree with my own assessment of her weaknesses?

On that note, I have been thinking (theorycrafting, oh no) about some options which I think she could utilize when she is juggled that I don't think many Sheiks have commonly implemented. I have also discussed with a couple other Sheik mains over skype about this, but I want to know everybody else's opinions.

1. B-reversal needle: Standard momentum shifter, has use for any character that wants to escape being juggled. The only problem is that again (arrgh) Sheik horizontal air mobility is not great so she doesn't go very far/opponent's with a lot of horizontal range on their uairs or good air mobility can still catch her very easily. In my experience, it's useful but it's a solid answer to most scenarios where reverse specials are applicable. Although I have to say, turnaround b-reversal in the air may be nice.

2. Footstooling: This is actually a very specific tactic that any character can use, but with a character like Sheik who is very limited in her recovery from being juggled it should be implemented. Footstooling, however, is also very specific and can't be used in most situations. However, it is a very good counter to many common situations you may see, MK tornadoing below you or a character baiting an air dodge and charging a smash attack.

3: Vanish: This tactic is like my biggest question for this post. I talked to Renki and <3 about this, and from there responses, it does not seem to be a common option used, if it's used at all. Basically, you sacrifice a little vertical distance that takes you further away from the ground and a bit of vulnerability, but you have the option to go anywhere after that. Depending on your positioning, your options can range from landing with zero landing lag, going to the ledge, or landing far away from your opponent, so you can't be punished. Either way, this tactic seems to have a lot of good options, although it is heavily dependent on your own ability to not be predictable, and certain characters may be very good at covering multiple options. As I stated previously, what are your thoughts on this tactic?

So anyway I assumed that these options weren't used much, but if you already used these options on a regular basis, please post about how effective said option was.

All of these options have their use and i use the first 2 when the oppertunity arises, which isn't that often lol. Vanish i haven't used too often but now that i think about it on stages with plats it could be nice. I'll look into that more.

Footstooling is a greta option that i recommend everyone work with more. The b reverse........not as much. Don't get me wrong i have very seldomly used it to escape a huge punish but i mean just the shear small distance it covers alright lets you know just how specific the situation for it is. Like its almost no different then just changing ur DI in mid air. So while it can be applicable the spacing required for it would have to be soooooo specfic it won't pop up very often.

I guess 1 use off the top of my head is if ur falling toward a marth (maybe recovering to the stage from high) and he goes for a tipper fair then a b reverse might save only because of the precise spacing required for a tipper.

 

[-Cross-]

Of course Sheik's b-reversal has much more specific uses, but it is a bit better than changing DI in midair. imo the advantage to Sheik's b-reversal needles is that you have, a complete shift in horizontal direction with options to still avoid an opponent's actions because you can asap needle cancel, and air dodge or retaliate etc. Anyway, I do agree with your point that it is not the end solution to Sheik's problems in the air. Btw did I get her weak zones correct, or are there any more that I should know?

 

[da K.I.D.]

since its so horribly bad (like sonics) shieks should dair more, nobody ever expects it, so if you throw it in there from time to time, it will hit the opponent away like 90% of the time.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea i've actually had success with dair in the past lol. It's also hilarious to hit with.

 

[-Mars-]

Couple questions:

1. Is utilt disjointed at all or does it extend Sheiks hurtbox?

2. GR>DACUS on Mario and Pikachu........is it legit? I'm thinking if it is then you must need to dash a bit before initiating a DACUS because I haven't been landing it when performing DACUS immediately after they release.

 

[<π]

it is on pika I'm not 100% about mario...

utilt the extend foot during the first hit box this lets you beat a lot of attacks you are still gonna have issues with things like MK's dair though.

 

[-Mars-]

MK's dair is the main reason I asked. I throw it out a lot against MK's dairing above me, now I know not to. Thanks.

 

[<π]

just duck against MK's above you honestly. if they great really low sheild. you can uair/ fair/ bair/ nair MK's dair out of sheild especially if he is going really low to hit with it or if he is low on jumps.

utilt has it's uses in the match up still. it covers the dodge in option really really well. If MK is coming in with glide from aboveish you can utilt when he enters your range to cover a lot of his options. (jab if you clank most of the time it'll win)

 

[saviorslegacy]

I asked Katakiri if it is possible to show invincibility on moves and he said yes. You just have to know what the folder is. If I can figure that out I might be able to learn how to make it glow. That way we can learn what is and isn't safe.

 

[<π]

utilt is in my top 5 sheik moves.

needles
bair
jab
ftilt
utilt

 

[-Mars-]

I'd agree with that list. Nair/Fair gets an honorable mention for me.

 

[<π]

yeah fair is **** I never use nair though... just to kill.

um...

6. fair
7. dash attack
8. uair
9. vanish
10. dsmash


Anyone think they are up to writing a guide? I may do it over the corse of today and tomorrow...

 

[-Cross-]

I'll help you if you go into more detail. I'll be on Skype most of the day, so if you see this, give me a message.

 

[Kuro~]

isnt the practically insta-death on space animals from 30% on?

 

[-Mars-]

Yes. Before then they can di down and ps.

 

[<π]

falco and wolf can both get out... kinda...

 

[clowsui]

i just mash DI down and buffer pshields anyways, if the sheik messes up ONCE i get a free shield and roll away

 

[<π]

i just mash DI down and buffer pshields anyways, if the sheik messes up ONCE i get a free shield and roll away

that is the worst possible thing you can do after 30 percent as falco. you want to smash DI up so you can get out as soon as possible. Don't count on your opponent messing up.

 

[Kuro~]

so falco can SDI out? awwww ;-;

 

[<π]

technically yes...

 

[Kuro~]

Does it regularly happen or is it like pro status....?

P.S. <3 u need to help me learn da sheik matchup...u 2 renki...

 

[<π]

It should it depends a lot on what people know. CLowsi would die against me DIing down for example even if he was the best falco ever just because he doesn't know what to do.

you can get falco to really high around 80+ till he can actually get out. but if you stall the ftilts a little you can keep him in longer... but thats hard and takes practice to know how long you can wait between tilts to keep it a true combo.

wolf is similar but he dies a little later than fox and falco too so you have to keep that in mind.

If you're in apopka how come you are never over here?!

 

[Kuro~]

Ahhh i see AND I AM i go to jeffs smash fests every friday o.o and renki comes over there as well and so does sensei usually WHERE U AT BOI?

 

[clowsui]

um? @ <3 i've done this multiple times to great success vs both tutu and saviors, they ftilted me with it hella stale at 70, they effed up and i pshielded

also by DI'ing down i avoid tipper hitbox even if they try to hit me, i'm tapping both sticks

even if i sdi up and out and escape, the only option i have is like nair, which offers me zero DI >_>

i'm skeptical of your solution, tell me how falco is supposed to react with sdi'ing up and out to avoid getting ftilted again

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah but I mess the f-tilt lock up often. I still got true f-tilt locks> death on you though.
But you are right, most of the time I would mess it up. Here in a while when I can do it and not mess up then what will you do?

 

[<π]

um? @ <3 i've done this multiple times to great success vs both tutu and saviors, they ftilted me with it hella stale at 70, they effed up and i pshielded

also by DI'ing down i avoid tipper hitbox even if they try to hit me, i'm tapping both sticks

even if i sdi up and out and escape, the only option i have is like nair, which offers me zero DI >_>

i'm skeptical of your solution, tell me how falco is supposed to react with sdi'ing up and out to avoid getting ftilted again

same way peeach or luigi does it just takes you longer. if you di down you will still eventually die to dsmash or side usmash

 

[Judo777]

same way peeach or luigi does it just takes you longer. if you di down you will still eventually die to dsmash or side usmash

Clow escapes on me from time to time i think you misunderstand him. He SDIes behind down and hopes to get you on turning around to soon or too late. If you turn around just a little too late or too early he gets to the ground and gets a shield. He also SDIes up from time to time. Tilting falco is hard.

 

[-Mars-]

The proper DI for Sheiks ftilt lock is toward her so you can get behind her if your a spacie. I have no idea why people still don't know this after 2 1/2 years.

 

[Judo777]

The proper DI for Sheiks ftilt lock is toward her so you can get behind her if your a spacie. I have no idea why people still don't know this after 2 1/2 years.

yea thats what he does. Whether you go up or down is depending on what ur going for.

 

[clowsui]

i'm usually DI'ing down so i can shield, if it looks inevitable i try and SDI into the tip so i get double hit

 

[phi1ny3]

I forget, did we ever have a air release CG on MK/anyone?

 

[Judo777]

I forget, did we ever have a air release CG on MK/anyone?

Yup on MK is we boost grab. Also on lucas and squirtle.

 

[phi1ny3]

I figured the boost grab was the key to make it work, I was testing out the distance just the other day :D

 

[-Mars-]

Yea but a couple times I have gotten away with one extra grab for a walkoff. Haven't bothered to learn boost grabbing yet how do you do it????

DACUS inputs?

 

[phi1ny3]

How I do it, I just C-stick down, then immediately Z afterward. If you did a dash attack you were too slow

It's really useful to learn if you use Snake or Falco

 

[Judo777]

Yea but a couple times I have gotten away with one extra grab for a walkoff. Haven't bothered to learn boost grabbing yet how do you do it????

DACUS inputs?

its literally a dash attack cancel grab. Same input for dacus except grab instead of Usmash, the timing is way easier.