Get Melee into Evo 2013! (FOR REALS... maybe)

[Mahie]

Making one heck of a hype video in order to support this could be cool and show not only dedication regarding EVO, but also what Melee is all about to people who aren't really aware of that aspect.

That being said, I have no experience with this kind of things, just throwing the idea out there.

 

[Nintendude]

That's actually a great idea, Mahie. Who wants to step up and do it? My only request is that it isn't like some other videos out there where half of the audio is Waffles' hype "commentary." I don't think that would make a good impression.

I have spent almost an hour trying to find it! I can't recall if it was on WakeUpSRK or not, but I remember it was a podcast that came out just before EVO 2011! There was also a story Mr.Wizard was talking about how they BARELY managed to get CRT tvs for the event because the monitors they were going to use that year were laggy! I'm trying to find it!

Dude is your period key broken or something?

 

[LLDL]

Atlus yells at everyone on the boards.

 

[C.SDK]

Yeah, Atlus uses exclamation marks for everything! It's his posting style!

 

[TheManaLord]

definitely vote and tell everyone

 

[Zankoku]

I think a lot of people would rather have brawl in evo, but they probably thought that brawl had no chance and 1 smash is better than none. Or they remember how badly the brawl scene embarrassed itself in evo07. Before the hate train gets going let me say I HATE brawl, but I have love for all my smash brethren.

Brawl must've embarassed itself pretty badly at the EVO that happened a year before the game even got released. >_>

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Brawl must've embarassed itself pretty badly at the EVO that happened a year before the game even got released. >_>

LMAO.

This is why I love you, Ankoku/aisight.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Vkrm]

Whoops my mistake. 2008 was the year brawl began to embarrass competitive smash. What ever happened to CPU anyway? Was he a 1 hit wonder?

 

[Bones0]

He was a 12-year-old who knew how to spotdodge, dsmash, and break Smash balls. No offense to him ofc, but it's not like he demonstrated some monster capabilities in spacing that no one had ever conceived of.

 

[Ekaru]

For what it's worth, I think Brawl is a good game but it's not one of the four games I voted for. These four games would be Melee, P4A, TTT2, and KoFXIII.

The reason I didn't vote for Brawl is simple; I don't enjoy watching it. Brawl's a really good game, but I just don't think it's entertaining to watch. Therefore, I am going to instead vote for the games that I would enjoy watching.

However, I do not approve of this mindless Brawl bashing. There is a difference between saying that you do not like Brawl and heavily that the competitive scene as a whole is a joke.

 

[EPsilon933]

Iirc, his brother placed 8th place at that tournament too

They were like the only ones willing to abuse items

 

[Vkrm]

Has anyone ever been arguing with somebody who doesn't play competitive smash, but insists the game is more skillful with items and that's how tournaments should be run because that's the default? Some say playing with items just takes different kind of skill. I've been debating an old friend I have from street fighter, and his main thing against smash being a fighting game is that since you have to do so much to the game's settings it's some how makes it not a fighter. It seems that since sf4 is tourney ready out of the box, it's a fighter.

 

[fatman667]

Has anyone ever been arguing with somebody who doesn't play competitive smash, but insists the game is more skillful with items and that's how tournaments should be run because that's the default? Some say playing with items just takes different kind of skill. I've been debating an old friend I have from street fighter, and his main thing against smash being a fighting game is that since you have to do so much to the game's settings it's some how makes it not a fighter. It seems that since sf4 is tourney ready out of the box, it's a fighter.

TBH that is a pretty stupid point, showing that he's clearly biased.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Has anyone ever been arguing with somebody who doesn't play competitive smash, but insists the game is more skillful with items and that's how tournaments should be run because that's the default? Some say playing with items just takes different kind of skill. I've been debating an old friend I have from street fighter, and his main thing against smash being a fighting game is that since you have to do so much to the game's settings it's some how makes it not a fighter. It seems that since sf4 is tourney ready out of the box, it's a fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37pEB8BJhM

 

[oukd]

Has anyone ever been arguing with somebody who doesn't play competitive smash, but insists the game is more skillful with items and that's how tournaments should be run because that's the default? Some say playing with items just takes different kind of skill. I've been debating an old friend I have from street fighter, and his main thing against smash being a fighting game is that since you have to do so much to the game's settings it's some how makes it not a fighter. It seems that since sf4 is tourney ready out of the box, it's a fighter.

If requiring setting adjustments/not having foresight of competitive play by a company suddenly means the game is not a fighter, then the classification of 'fighter' is a joke that nobody should bother arguing for honestly. Not that it was one in the first place...stupid term/semantics to begin with...

Also it's nign-impossible to convincingly argue for/against mechanics in competitive play when the other party hasn't experienced it first-hand, so have fun with that.

 

[R2_GP]

how many votes we got so far???

 

[Bones0]

1. Ask them if they think MLG Halo is a first person shooter. MLG's setting for Halo removes about the same amount of gameplay elements from default as Melee players do from Melee. In fact, for Halo 3 and Reach, CUSTOM MADE maps were used for competitive play. Not only did they systematically alter weapon spawn times and locations, but maps were built from the ground up. Even with all of these setting adjustments, no one would ever watch an MLG Halo event and think "this isn't a first person shooter." The same holds true for Melee.

2. If Smash 4 was released as an exact copy of Melee but with our current rules set as the default, would it not be a fighting game? Of course it would be. If that version of Smash 4 would be considered a fighting game, then why not Melee with those same exact settings?

3. How many rules can you change before your game becomes illegitimate for competition? If the next SF had a 500 second timer by default and the community agreed to change it to 99 seconds, is that SF game no longer a fighter? What if the next MvC was an amazingly balanced game, but they included X-factor powerups that spawned randomly. These powerups do not have to be forcibly removed from the game in any obscure way, they are simply turned off in the basic options menu. Would the FGC really abandon such a well-suited game just because the developers included a casual-oriented feature as default with a competitive-oriented rule set optional? I'm sure if I knew enough about fighting games, I could already point to an example of the FGC preemptively banning a stage or glitch or tactic simply because it didn't fit with their vision of how that game should be played.


If they simply disagree that even default Melee is a fighting game, then:

4. Genres are 90% opinion-based. They are a way of grouping like things. In music, we observe different styles of sound, instruments used, types of melodies and harmonies and all that good stuff. The ones with similar traits are grouped together. These days, it's probably impossible to create a song that won't have traits from multiple genres. As far as the fighting game genre is concerned, there are a few main similarities between each game, and many games take interesting twists in these similarities.

Melee has so many similarities to other fighters, both basic and complex, that to consider anything but a fighter is ridiculous. There are two opponents whose goal it is to defeat the other by ringout. Melee doesn't have the same sort of health system as most fighters, but it does have percentage-based damage that serves a similar purpose of getting your opponent closer to death. Ringouts are in many traditional fighters, and while I'm not sure any have a system for recovering back to the stage after one, it is no doubt a ringout-like concept. Again, if a SF game were released with the ability to double jump back to the stage, would it suddenly not be a fighter? Unlikely. These are all fairly basic similarities though, so how can we be sure I'm not just cherry-picking obscure topics like "health" to twist Melee into the fighting genre? You can be sure because of how many elements are taken distinctly and directly from traditional fighters. Combos are an obvious one. Training Mode has a counter the keeps track of how many successive hits you can land without the opponent being able to escape. My favorite similarity (and one that is often overlooked) is the RPS element of Attack-Block-Grab. In most traditional fighters, blocks are a tool used solely to block attacks. In order to prevent blocks from being abused, the developers include grabs, which are a different type of attack that beats blocking. Grabs will make quick work of anyone that tries to abuse their ability to block all other attacks, but in order to balance grabs into the equation, they must obviously make it so attacks beat grabs. This is the exact system Melee uses. If you spam attacks, they will get shielded. If you spam shield, you get grabbed. And if you spam grabs, you will get kicked in the jaw. This is such a core element of so many traditional fighters that it is very clearly not an accident or coincidence.



Take your pick. I can rattle off arguments all day that destroy anything a Capcom fanboy can come up with against Melee being 1. a legitimate competitive game and 2. a fighting game. They simply have no ground to stand on because all of the facts are on our side. If Melee were built with the usual SF or MvC characters, you can be sure it would have quickly been accepted as a competitive spinoff of traditional fighters. That is one last thing to keep in mind when arguing this stuff is that Melee is NOT a traditional fighter. There are always subgenres that you can group things in, and this holds true for all games. Fighters with multiple characters and tagouts are not traditional in any sense, so be sure you accept that Melee is not traditional either before arguing that it's still a fighter. Personally, I use the term platform-fighter because I think the main aspect that separates Melee from other fighters is its movement, which is essentially platforming.

 

[Biglard]

how many votes we got so far???

4964 votes for Super Smash Bros Melee
2988 votes for The King of Fighters XIII
2891 votes for Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
2737 votes for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition
2235 votes for Tekken Tag tournament 2
2050 votes for Persona 4: Arena

(I don't like abbreviations)

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, abbrvs really make me PO'd.

 

[Life]

I really want Capcom to make a SF platform-fighter just to watch the trolls squirm.

 

[EPsilon933]

The closest thing to it so far is MVC

 

[Violence]

I really want Capcom to make a SF platform-fighter just to watch the trolls squirm.

shffHadouken

grab->uthrow->shoryuken

 

[past_b]

Has anyone mentioned dogy as a potential commentator? I think he and wobbles would be amazing. Dogy is probably my favorite commentator of all time, although wife was pretty good too.

 

[R2_GP]

Has anyone mentioned dogy as a potential commentator? I think he and wobbles would be amazing. Dogy is probably my favorite commentator of all time, although wife was pretty good too.

I think doggy, wobbles and prog would be great, maybe d1?, and don't forget wife

 

[kd-]

shffHadouken

grab->uthrow->shoryuken

Ledgehop Psycho Crusher -> Hit them to a platform -> Headstomp tech chase

Jab reset -> Raging Demon

Rekka OoS

cr.Fierce Launch/Anti-Air -> Flying Buster Drop (Air Throw)

The possibilities are endless

 

[past_b]

Ledgehop Psycho Crusher -> Hit them to a platform -> Headstomp tech chase

Jab reset -> Raging Demon

Rekka OoS

cr.Fierce Launch/Anti-Air -> Flying Buster Drop (Air Throw)

The possibilities are endless

haha awesome. i used to main dictator when i played sf so i found your first "combo" to be very entertaining.

 

[KrIsP!]

Has anyone ever been arguing with somebody who doesn't play competitive smash, but insists the game is more skillful with items and that's how tournaments should be run because that's the default? Some say playing with items just takes different kind of skill. I've been debating an old friend I have from street fighter, and his main thing against smash being a fighting game is that since you have to do so much to the game's settings it's some how makes it not a fighter. It seems that since sf4 is tourney ready out of the box, it's a fighter.

They say its a party game because it has items however its not a fighter because w ehave to turn items off. What happens when the new Tekken comes out on Wii U, obviously they'll ignore it in the competitive scene but it has items that simply need to be turned off to return to the normal game. If that was the only version would they keep them on? I doubt it.

Edit: All shooters have a rdiculous amount of setting changes implemented. TF2 is very competitive however half of the weapons are banned from use as well as only certain maps and limits on number of players/games played, etc. Competitive L4D has a ruleset called confogl that changes the spawn rates among other things placed by valve and valve even released it as a gamemode. somehow us changing it to 4 stock items off is different. Just to add to Bones' points.

 

[R2_GP]

We're almost 5000!, melee is Legendary.

 

[thechunkylover]

The closest thing to it so far is MVC

 

[Dark Hart]

Guys guys guys

Wikipedia says Melee is a fighting game: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Brothers_Melee

We win

 

[Bones0]

On the back of the game case, it says "The craziest four-player party game of all time returns for a frantic, fun-filled Nintendo GameCube melee! Pick a classic character and enter the fray." I guess we were wrong, guys...

Spoiler

Jk, it actually says "four-player fighting game". ;D

 

[KrIsP!]

Seems legit

 

[Jockmaster]

Has anyone mentioned dogy as a potential commentator? I think he and wobbles would be amazing. Dogy is probably my favorite commentator of all time, although wife was pretty good too.

Dogy posted in the GA melee group that he thinks the idea of Melee at EVO is absurd and that it will never happen no matter how many votes we get in a facebook poll

Also, there already is a Shoryuken in melee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BGq-e_6FxVw#t=50s

 

[R2_GP]

that's too bad, it's not absurd, we've been there!

 

[Habefiet]

In case nobody noticed, we passed 5000 votes, which makes me think we're getting at least a tiny bit of support from some people who play other games, which has me wondering:

Are there any high-level players of FGC games that are into Melee? I know Forward and Alukard play other fighting games... what might be helpful to at least some degree is to get them, or prominent people within the FGC that think Melee should have a shot, to write a little something... just a thought.

And it's sad that Dogy's being super pessimistic. :/ We WERE there before, and while I agree that the poll PROBABLY makes no difference... well, what if it does? Why not take the chance?

 

[NightShadow6]

As awesome as it would be for melee to go to EVO, could this create a bridge in the smash community?

I've heard from the grapevine that there are many people with anti FGC sentiments.

 

[R2_GP]

As awesome as it would be for melee to go to EVO, could this create a bridge in the smash community?

I've heard from the grapevine that there are many people with anti FGC sentiments.

do you mean that some people want to keep melee in a more underground profile? 'couse i think it's too late for that

 

[Anth0ny]

In case nobody noticed, we passed 5000 votes, which makes me think we're getting at least a tiny bit of support from some people who play other games, which has me wondering:

Are there any high-level players of FGC games that are into Melee? I know Forward and Alukard play other fighting games... what might be helpful to at least some degree is to get them, or prominent people within the FGC that think Melee should have a shot, to write a little something... just a thought.

And it's sad that Dogy's being super pessimistic. :/ We WERE there before, and while I agree that the poll PROBABLY makes no difference... well, what if it does? Why not take the chance?

Bum and Falcomist are also Marvel players who are known more for their Smash skills.

Lesser known: Noel Brown, Chris G and Masta CJ were former Smash players. Noel Brown got his start with Melee, but got bodied so hard by DA Dave that he quit.

 

[Pink Reaper]

In case nobody noticed, we passed 5000 votes, which makes me think we're getting at least a tiny bit of support from some people who play other games, which has me wondering:

Are there any high-level players of FGC games that are into Melee? I know Forward and Alukard play other fighting games... what might be helpful to at least some degree is to get them, or prominent people within the FGC that think Melee should have a shot, to write a little something... just a thought.

And it's sad that Dogy's being super pessimistic. :/ We WERE there before, and while I agree that the poll PROBABLY makes no difference... well, what if it does? Why not take the chance?

There were a bunch of high level FGC players who were mentioned to have played smash before. Noel Brown and Chris G were mentioned during Apex 2012. I remember a random video with Mr. Quotes doing commentary on a smash player playing Marvel and whoever he was doing commentary with was talking about the stuff he liked about melee and a bunch of other random people jumping on the mic for melee. That said the amount of crossover from the "Mainstream" FGC to the non-mainstream is usually pretty low. Not even just FGC to melee but like, SF to things like BlazBlue or even KoF. Hell just the SF->Marvel crossover is pretty small. That said despite how much hate the smash community assumes we get from the FGC the actual amount of players in the FGC who either dont really have an opinion of smash or are ok with it are much larger.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, it's kind of obvious looking at 90% of the posts that bash Melee that they don't know anything about the game and are most likely garbage at whatever game they play anyway.