Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EarlTamm]

Yeah, but so was Joker and people don't **** on him.

To be fair, Joker was much more recent, had little representation on Nintendo platforms and is not exactly as big of a supposed "icon" when compared to Erdrick.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, but so was Joker and people don't **** on him.

Joker isn't always getting replies of people being way overly defensive and refusing to acknowledge issues with the character.

The Joker fans also didn't expect him and treated him as unrealistic but were very fair about these factors. They discussed him rationally. The only irrational stuff is way afterwords with really bad comparisons to other characters, like comparing him to Bayonetta.

Reality is, Erdrick is very divisive on both ends. There's way too much **** slung at him with way too many defensive replies to points that aren't even hating on the character. It goes both ways. Besides that, the dumb anime swordsman thing exists too(which is really the only completely bad argument to begin with for his "chances").. Joker stood out as far more unique to the Smash fanbase on design alone. There's been a lot of issues with speculation since Smash 4's major amount of Fire Emblem characters. It sucks too, as I don't think an "anime swordsman" is bad either. Erdrick's hardly my first choice(I'll take Max from Shining Force easily beforehand, or even the DQ1 Hero, as they're more applicable to the games I've played), either, but while I don't believe he's that likely as others do, I still think he's a cool character option.

 

[ForsakenM]

Yeah, but so was Joker and people don't **** on him.

If you don't think that any fan that talked about wanting Joker DIDN'T get **** on before release, you are delusional. Fact is that Smash fans **** all over other Smash fans for not wanting what they want. It's basic human nature: you're different, so instead of trying to understand one another...SCREW YOU BUDDY!

Joker isn't always getting replies of people being way overly defensive and refusing to acknowledge issues with the character.

The Joker fans also didn't expect him and treated him as unrealistic but were very fair about these factors. They discussed him rationally. The only irrational stuff is way afterwords with really bad comparisons to other characters, like comparing him to Bayonetta.

Reality is, Erdrick is very divisive on both ends. There's way too much **** slung at him with way too many defensive replies to points that aren't even hating on the character. It goes both ways. Besides that, the dumb anime swordsman thing exists too(which is really the only completely bad argument to begin with for his "chances").. Joker stood out as far more unique to the Smash fanbase on design alone. There's been a lot of issues with speculation since Smash 4's major amount of Fire Emblem characters. It sucks too, as I don't think an "anime swordsman" is bad either. Erdrick's hardly my first choice(I'll take Max from Shining Force easily beforehand, or even the DQ1 Hero, as they're more applicable to the games I've played), either, but while I don't believe he's that likely as others do, I still think he's a cool character option.

See, I see both sides now though. I see both the 'he's the perfect choice' and the 'not another goddamn anime swordsman!'

They both have reasonable claims and arguments, it's just that most people get emotional and start throwing out harsh words like apes throw their **** rather than staying calm and addressing things in a proper manner.

The better way to say 'He's the perfect choice' is to say 'He's the main protagonist of the most renown game in a iconic franchise that has been around for thirty years and he has lots of unique things about him that could make him interesting in Smash.'

The better way to say 'not another goddamn anime swordsman' is to say 'I dislike his overall design as I feel previous installments of Smash have favored this design too much and I feel as though he may not have enough uniqueness to pull from to avoid him falling into an archetype that Smash, once again, has seen too much of recently.'

It's really that simple, but it's easier to lash out than to calm yourself and open your mind.

 

[Datboigeno]

I can't wait until all of this Erdrick stuff is over. I'm beyond tired of hearing the name "Erdrick" for 6 months.

I don’t know about you guys but I’m naming my first born child Erdrick

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t know about you guys but I’m naming my first born child Erdrick

Are you gonna name all of your children Erdrick?

 

[Datboigeno]

Are you gonna name all of your children Erdrick?

The first Erdrick, the second Steve, the third Waluigi.

 

[Deleted member]

The first Erdrick, the second Steve, the third Waluigi.

What if one of them is a girl though?

 

[EarlTamm]

What if one of them is a girl though?

Erdrick can fit both genders.

 

[Datboigeno]

What if one of them is a girl though?

I said what I said

 

[3BitSaurus]

Erdrick can fit both genders.

Waluigi would be weird tho.

Well, Waluigi is just weird in general.

Why do I feel this is the exact same kind of discussion the chat does during a Vinesauce stream?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I still think there is a chance Erdrick is just leakbait covering up for Geno.

 

[Polan]

Don't get me wrong, Erdrick has fans that have wanted him before Vergeben ever existed.

Like their thread here was made in 2008 by @Teeb147 themselves no less (makes sense why they are so defensive about Erdrick, they are as close to OG for him as you can get on this forum it would seem). The problem is that, it has only 4k+ replies since 2008. I'm not doubting fan devotion or hating on anyone, I'm just pointing out the numbers, and the numbers prove that the number of fans who know and love Erdrick and want him in Smash is VERY small in comparison to others, though I will admit that obviously SmashBoards doesn't reflect all the fans as it's obvious that there is at least one fan out there than isn't registered and active on here. I also admit this mostly reflects Western fans as I doubt there are many Japanese users on here in comparison to Western or European.

This still stands though, as this one of the biggest sites that one would go to in an effort to talk with people about the characters they like and want for Smash. This place is the shining example for that and I think we can use it as an example for how small the 'Western Erdrick For Smash' fanbase truly is. In fact, in the most recent fan poll taken, he ranked SUPER low and all the big names beat him. Once again, no offense, but in comparison the Isaac thread has the second most activity and HE'S AN ASSIST TROPHY! Shantae comes next, and her chances are similar to Geno's in a lot of ways except she's more active and relevant in recent years. Banjo-Kazooie comes next and the dynamic birb and burr duo is all but confirmed at this point. Who is number one?

That's us. Geno Fans, RISE UP! WE DA BOMB YO!

My point is this: even WITH the surge of conversation with 'leaks' from 'leakers' who REALLY have next to zero credibility, they still are a very small group of people who aren't all that vocal. This is why people are saying that Erdrick was a nobody before the 'leaks' because quite frankly, he was.

I would also like to point out, the Banjo leak has produced so much activity in the Banjo thread that I am pretty the amount of replies in the thread since the leak might have already surpassed the amount of replies in the Erdrick thread as a whole. I could be off by a bit, but with how active the Banjo thread is, give it a day or so and it will become accurate.

its equal parts hilarious and distressing that smash discussion has basically devolved into "my thread is bigger than your thread" arguments. c'mon nintendo, announce something and put this mess of a fanbase out of its misery.

 

[Deleted member]

Erdrick can fit both genders.

I wasn't talking about Erdrick. I know Erdrick can fit both genders.

 

[ForsakenM]

Guys...we are SOOOO freaking blind and stupid. I'm including myself here, in case you are wondering. I'm even dumber and blinder because I KNEW THIS INFO ALREADY!

You know how so many of you didn't know that days before the live Direct, many youtubers already knew about the Cloud reveal?

Banjo-Kazooie's TradeMark was renewed in late 2018...and it was renewed by NOT Miscrosoft, but NINTENDO!

I knew this the whole time and never put this **** together. Now, take a look at this.

So this official bit of merchandise being released by Exquisite Gaming now has Nintendo's name on it. Let me repeat that again.

OFFICIAL BANJO-KAZOOIE MERCHANDISE HAS NINTENDO'S NAME ON IT!

This would suggest that, perhaps, EG had to work with the licensing with Nintendo.

But that doesn't make any sense, right? Microsoft owns Rare and Banjo-Kazooie through that, right?

Well when Microsoft made that new Killer Instinct game, they had to renew their trademark on it even when they owned Rare. So, what if Nintendo met with Microsoft and paid big fat bucks to get all the rights to Banjo-Kazooie and now NINTENDO owns Banjo-Kazooie instead of Microsoft? That would explain Nintendo renewing the trademark instead of Microsoft. That would explain why their name is attached to this official merchandise instead of Microsoft or Rare. We know that Nintendo and Microsoft did in fact have a meeting around last year's E3 I believe (feel free to correct me on this) and maybe Nintendo kept eyes on Yooka-Laylee and heard the cries of the fans after all these years and said "You know, Microsoft, you guys aren't doing anything with Banjo-Kazooie other than small nods...how about we bring the bear and bird back home to and audience that would better receive them?"

Just so you guys know, I made my hard call without even considering that TM renewal for whatever reason. If you want the reason behind why I'm so convinced Banjo-Kazooie is a thing, it's because of all the merchandise coming out for them and the design of some of it. Why in the hell would Rare or Microsoft make merchandise for a dead franchise they show no interest in reviving? Why did LootCrate have Banjo-Kazooie as part of their theme that coming month but then suddenly remove it? Why did they make the Wolverine meme post about Smash fans wanting Banjo-Kazooie and then deleted their own tweet? Why do all these statues and statuettes have a different design from both OG Banjo and Nuts N' Bolts? Why do they appear to have some sort of modern take on the original Banjo-Kazooie design despite that design never existing in a game before because the franchise has been dead for years?

Really makes ya think! {think emoji here}

 

[Datboigeno]

Guys...we are SOOOO freaking blind and stupid. I'm including myself here, in case you are wondering. I'm even dumber and blinder because I KNEW THIS INFO ALREADY!

You know how so many of you didn't know that days before the live Direct, many youtubers already knew about the Cloud reveal?

Banjo-Kazooie's TradeMark was renewed in late 2018...and it was renewed by NOT Miscrosoft, but NINTENDO!

I knew this the whole time and never put this **** together. Now, take a look at this.

So this official bit of merchandise being released by Exquisite Gaming now has Nintendo's name on it. Let me repeat that again.

OFFICIAL BANJO-KAZOOIE MERCHANDISE HAS NINTENDO'S NAME ON IT!

This would suggest that, perhaps, EG had to work with the licensing with Nintendo.

But that doesn't make any sense, right? Microsoft owns Rare and Banjo-Kazooie through that, right?

Well when Microsoft made that new Killer Instinct game, they had to renew their trademark on it even when they owned Rare. So, what if Nintendo met with Microsoft and paid big fat bucks to get all the rights to Banjo-Kazooie and now NINTENDO owns Banjo-Kazooie instead of Microsoft? That would explain Nintendo renewing the trademark instead of Microsoft. That would explain why their name is attached to this official merchandise instead of Microsoft or Rare. We know that Nintendo and Microsoft did in fact have a meeting around last year's E3 I believe (feel free to correct me on this) and maybe Nintendo kept eyes on Yooka-Laylee and heard the cries of the fans after all these years and said "You know, Microsoft, you guys aren't doing anything with Banjo-Kazooie other than small nods...how about we bring the bear and bird back home to and audience that would better receive them?"

Just so you guys know, I made my hard call without even considering that TM renewal for whatever reason. If you want the reason behind why I'm so convinced Banjo-Kazooie is a thing, it's because of all the merchandise coming out for them and the design of some of it. Why in the hell would Rare or Microsoft make merchandise for a dead franchise they show no interest in reviving? Why did LootCrate have Banjo-Kazooie as part of their theme that coming month but then suddenly remove it? Why did they make the Wolverine meme post about Smash fans wanting Banjo-Kazooie and then deleted their own tweet? Why do all these statues and statuettes have a different design from both OG Banjo and Nuts N' Bolts? Why do they appear to have some sort of modern take on the original Banjo-Kazooie design despite that design never existing in a game before because the franchise has been dead for years?

Really makes ya think! {think emoji here}

Wait didn't exquisitegaming say the Nintendo thing was a mistake earlier today?

 

[EarlTamm]

So, a character will be revealed on Tuesday. As in singular, so no dual reveal.

 

[Ovaltine]

Well, no reveal at the end of the tourney, and Sakurai is only mentioning one DLC fighter (a.k.a Microsoft rep, surely). I have a feeling we're only getting one reveal for E3, so the Square rep will remain unknown yet. Torture, I tell you. TORTURE.

However, that fake Smash Ball is making me curious. What could that have meant?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Wait didn't exquisitegaming say the Nintendo thing was a mistake earlier today?

Yeah, that’s what the Banjo thread posted earlier. A link to a Tweet from Exquisite saying it was a mistake on their end.

 

[xpnc]

So, a character will be revealed on Tuesday. As in singular, so no dual reveal.

How do you figure?

 

[EarlTamm]

How do you figure?

End of the tourney Sakurai noted some stuff and it phrased as a singular reveal.

 

[xpnc]

End of the tourney Sakurai noted some stuff and it phrased as a singular reveal.

Every single E3 since 2013 has had at least two characters shown. Under promise, over deliver

 

[EarlTamm]

Every single E3 since 2013 has had at least two characters shown. Under promise, over deliver

Well, did they ever promise anything those previous times?

 

[Datboigeno]

Unless there's an out of nowhere teaser in addition to Banjo that confirms the SE character this means it's another several months of DQ/Erdrick discussion.

For ****s Sake

 

[xpnc]

Well, did they ever promise anything those previous times?

It was heavily implied that we were only going to see Roy and Ryu and then we got Lucas "out of nowhere"

We've gotten the "and one more thing," so many times in Smash directs I can't even begin to count them all

 

[EarlTamm]

It was heavily implied that we were only going to see Roy and Ryu and then we got Lucas "out of nowhere"

We've gotten the "and one more thing," so many times in Smash directs I can't even begin to count them all

But the "and one more thing" moments were literally right before whatever reveal, not a couple days beforehand. And I don't recall this Lucas thing.

 

[Bremy]

It was heavily implied that we were only going to see Roy and Ryu and then we got Lucas "out of nowhere"

We've gotten the "and one more thing," so many times in Smash directs I can't even begin to count them all

We actually knew about lucas before though didn't we? and Roy and Ryu were data mined before the direct so we knew about them as well

 

[Datboigeno]

We actually knew about lucas before though didn't we? and Roy and Ryu were data mined before the direct so we knew about them as well

Yeah but none of that was "official".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Japanese language has singular and plural in the same wording. Fighters and Fighter, for instance, is the same thing in Japanese. Nintendo did do the subtitles, so take the idea with a grain of salt, really. It might not be singular as the translation suggests.

 

[xpnc]

We actually knew about lucas before though didn't we? and Roy and Ryu were data mined before the direct so we knew about them as well

No, we didn't know about Lucas. Datamining only showed Roy and Ryu. Lucas was an actual surprise.

But the "and one more thing" moments were literally right before whatever reveal, not a couple days beforehand. And I don't recall this Lucas thing.

You not remembering Lucas being completely unexpected is on you

Yeah but none of that was "official".

The official source has also told us that

• Melee is the last game
• Third parties had to appear on Nintendo consoles first
• Brawl is as big as a Smash game could get
• Brawl is the last game
• Animal Crossing characters can't be playable because they don't lend themselves to fighting
• The 3DS version in no way hindered the Wii U version (Ice Climbers were cut and the stated reason is they wouldn't work on 3DS)
• There are no plans for DLC (Smash 4 was designed with DLC slots)
• Bayonetta won the ballot
• Smash 4 is as big as a Smash game could get
• Ridley can't be playable because shrinking him down would make him not-Ridley
• No characters were cut from Ultimate once the game started production (there's a missing character between Isabelle and the Inklings on the internal numbering list)
• Smash Ultimate's DLC was not considered before the game was finished (which will be a complete lie if any of the Square Enix stuff we've been hearing about since the last E3 is true)

 

[EarlTamm]

You not remembering Lucas being completely unexpected is on you

Because I thought you were referring to an insinuation that beforehand that was official, not the result of datamining.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The official source has also told us that

• Melee is the last game
• Third parties had to appear on Nintendo consoles first
• Brawl is as big as a Smash game could get
• Brawl is the last game
• Animal Crossing characters can't be playable because they don't lend themselves to fighting
• The 3DS version in no way hindered the Wii U version (Ice Climbers were cut and the stated reason is they wouldn't work on 3DS)
• There are no plans for DLC (Smash 4 was designed with DLC slots)
• Bayonetta won the ballot
• Smash 4 is as big as a Smash game could get
• Ridley can't be playable because shrinking him down would make him not-Ridley
• No characters were cut from Ultimate once the game started production (there's a missing character between Isabelle and the Inklings on the internal numbering list)
• Smash Ultimate's DLC was not considered before the game was finished (which will be a complete lie if any of the Square Enix stuff we've been hearing about since the last E3 is true)

Some of this isn't said right.

Bayonetta didn't "win the ballot". He said she got number 1 in the UK and top 5 Worldwide.

He never said third parties had to appear on a Nintendo console either. That was a mistranslation. What he said is that them appearing on a Nintendo console would be something of a courtesy. It's a factor, not a hard rule. Very huge difference.

Rest is said right, though(I think?). One also has to consider the context of when it was said. Man can change his mind. During Brawl, yeah, Villager/etc. weren't good options for fighters. He however was able to figure out a good way to make them interest during 4's development, changing everything.

 

[xpnc]

Some of this isn't said right.

Bayonetta didn't "win the ballot". He said she got number 1 in the UK and top 5 Worldwide.

Of realizable characters, aka of people they were already working on

 

[ForsakenM]

Wait didn't exquisitegaming say the Nintendo thing was a mistake earlier today?

Yeah, that’s what the Banjo thread posted earlier. A link to a Tweet from Exquisite saying it was a mistake on their end.

Mistake in what way though?

Was it a mistake that they somehow put the wrong companies name even though Microsoft would have then owned the IP for years?

Or was it a mistake that this information was shown?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Unless there's an out of nowhere teaser in addition to Banjo that confirms the SE character this means it's another several months of DQ/Erdrick discussion.
For ****s Sake

Dangit, Nintendo, put me out of my misery already.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Of realizable characters, aka of people they were already working on

Point still stands. He never once said she was chosen due to the ballot. That's an assumption fans made. That's a huge difference from what he said, was that she added among realizable characters.

 

[xpnc]

Point still stands. He never once said she was chosen due to the ballot. That's an assumption fans made. That's a huge difference from what he said, was that she added among realizable characters.

That's a pretty ridiculous wording if that's really what he was trying to pass off to people. Like with that logic you could say he was saying he's showing one character, and then he's also showing another character, but he's still showing one

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's a pretty ridiculous wording if that's really what he was trying to pass off to people

No. It's really not ridiculous.

He was making two separate statements entirely.

One is that she was top 5 worldwide and number 1 in Europe.

One is that she was chosen among realizable characters that they could add for Smash DLC.

The link you gave even goes into why it was unlikely she was chosen due to the ballot. She was likely started before the ballot was. It takes a while to license characters, after all. As well as working on full-out bodyframe work. These don't happen overnight.

 

[xpnc]

No. It's really not ridiculous.

He was making two separate statements entirely.

One is that she was top 5 worldwide and number 1 in Europe.

One is that she was chosen among realizable characters that they could add for Smash DLC.

The link you gave even goes into why it was unlikely she was chosen due to the ballot. She was likely started before the ballot was. It takes a while to license characters, after all. As well as working on full-out bodyframe work. These don't happen overnight.

He intentionally misled people using awkward phrasing to make people think Bayonetta was the ballot winner and presented the ballot as if it was for Smash 4 DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He intentionally misled people using awkward phrasing to make people think Bayonetta was the ballot winner and presented the ballot as if it was for Smash 4 DLC.

I doubt it was intentional. It was far more likely it was a poor translation. He's not known for wording stuff super well. It's an issue he has sometimes.

Honestly, the only malicious thing he's said at any point was complaining towards the complaining of clones in Smash 4. That was it. He really isn't malicious or attempting to outright mislead anyone like that. He makes sometimes slightly trollish remarks as more of a joke(like the Fake Smash Ball thing from earlier could be), or joking about ZSS being cut.

In this case, it wasn't an intentional mislead. It was poorer wording. There's always a language barrier, which is far more likely what led to that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, the chance of an Erdrick shadow drop before E3 has dropped significantly. I still stand by my prediction that, if he's in, he'll be a TGS announcement in September. I still don't count out a possible second character announcement at E3 though.