Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Lime3037]

I wasn't phased by the Wii Shop Channel closing, as it was just it's time to go, until I remembered downloading SMRPG more than 8 years ago from it. That was the first time I owned the game. Such a bittersweet moment.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I have troubles seeing Steve as a reality. Not because of the fact ''Eww, Steve." ''Eww Minecraft." That's stupid. There's logical reasons for a Minecraft addition to Smash Brothers.

The fact Steve however has a model that is VERY limited in terms of movement? That's the problem. Animating Steve into a fighting game WILL be problematic. His model is FAR too limited for the type of game that Smash is.

Imagine it as if you were adding an early South Park episode cut out to an old school traditional Disney cartoon. That's the problem with Steve.

Not that he's ugly, not that he's not deserving. It's that he just does not have the same accessibility to be as mobile and have the number of animations that being a Smash fighter requires.

 

[Captain Fun]

I have troubles seeing Steve as a reality. Not because of the fact ''Eww, Steve." ''Eww Minecraft." That's stupid. There's logical reasons for a Minecraft addition to Smash Brothers.

The fact Steve however has a model that is VERY limited in terms of movement? That's the problem. Animating Steve into a fighting game WILL be problematic. His model is FAR too limited for the type of game that Smash is.

Imagine it as if you were adding an early South Park episode cut out to an old school traditional Disney cartoon. That's the problem with Steve.

Not that he's ugly, not that he's not deserving. It's that he just does not have the same accessibility to be as mobile and have the number of animations that being a Smash fighter requires.

In a game where Mr. Game & Watch is a fighter, I don't really see it being an issue. Liberties can be taken where needed. I doubt animation is a significant hurdle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly can see Steve with janky movement akin to Wario. He seems like he'd be somewhat of a more oddball fighter in that regard. But he's not unable to do the movements at all, just he won't look like your average bestial/humanoid. His blockiness comes with a unique design and animation style. I don't believe it will be an issue.

Of course, it absolutely could be. He might not be able to be balanced right due to a design that doesn't work well enough. This isn't of course anything like Nintendogs(who are too realistic) either. If he feels the movements are too disjointed/misleading and cause balance issues, he could forego the character. The thing is? That's a good reason too. It's important that a character contributes to the game's balance, after all(his own words too. I do think he means more than just gameplay as well. He says this pretty early on, especially with how he cares about roster balance. It's easy to argue he could balance out the roster selection better, but regardless, he takes it into account).

 

[Ze Diglett]

In a game where Mr. Game & Watch is a fighter, I don't really see it being an issue. Liberties can be taken where needed. I doubt animation is a significant hurdle.

I'm honestly tired of hearing people bring up this comparison as it's not really a straight equivalence in the slightest. G&W's frame-by-frame movement is quirky, but he still strikes distinctive poses in each animation (especially given the changes he got in Ultimate), so adding him was likely never really an issue beyond figuring out the technology to make him appear flat. Steve has, like, five points of articulation in his entire body. Those are two completely separate issues and comparing the two only works insofar as "weird stuff can work", which is self-evident and doesn't really prove anything. Hell, if you're gonna go the comparison route, R.O.B. would honestly be a more apt comparison.

 

[Qeomash]

I believe in Sakurai and his team, and I'm sure they can find a way to make Steve's animations work.

Still, I'm glad I didn't buy the pass yet. I hope the last two are good fits.

 

[Deleted member]

What Smash 4 DLC character were you all the most excited for?

Mewtwo I remember being excited for
Lucas was alright
Roy I just barely touched
Ryu I had fun using
Cloud is my most used DLC character according to statistics
Corrin I used a couple times. I do like her playstyle, but I really don't use her.
Bayonetta I absolutely sucked with. I have a better idea of how to play her now, but back then I just didn't.

 

[Captain Fun]

I'm honestly tired of hearing people bring up this comparison as it's not really a straight equivalence in the slightest. G&W's frame-by-frame movement is quirky, but he still strikes distinctive poses in each animation (especially given the changes he got in Ultimate), so adding him was likely never really an issue beyond figuring out the technology to make him appear flat. Steve has, like, five points of articulation in his entire body. Those are two completely separate issues and comparing the two only works insofar as "weird stuff can work", which is self-evident and doesn't really prove anything. Hell, if you're gonna go the comparison route, R.O.B. would honestly be a more apt comparison.

R.O.B is a more apt comparison. I guess my mind went to G&W after reading the South Park character comparison (flat, 2D). I maintain that animators can take liberties where they need to though. There's no need to adhere so strictly to Minecraft's rigid models and animation style.

Spoiler

Sorry for dragging this further off-topic. I'll stop now.

 

[MattX20]

Again, I remain entirely skeptical on any claims by people claiming they know who's coming for DLC. Polar's source so far has proven to be the most accurate in that regard as he clearly stated no one knew who was coming. No leakers ever stated Joker, and no offense to Xenother, but I cannot take this with anything but a grain of salt. I can believe that's what his source claims sure, but the information currently is doubtful. That, and the stats for Brave prior to the removal for the update do not seem to match Erdrick based on other insider descriptions.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, I miss the days when leakers just straight-up showed screenshots of the leaked roster. No "so and so heard this guy will be in, that guy won't be in, maybe they're in, maybe not", no doctored screenshots or made-up artwork (for the latter, I certainly know 4 had that happen).

Just matter of fact, clear as crystal, frank as Frankenstein, plainly-shown full roster.

This speculation period is basically just killing credibility for leakers, to the point that kinder insiders like PolarPanda get caught in the crossfire.

I'm honestly tired of hearing people bring up this comparison as it's not really a straight equivalence in the slightest. G&W's frame-by-frame movement is quirky, but he still strikes distinctive poses in each animation (especially given the changes he got in Ultimate), so adding him was likely never really an issue beyond figuring out the technology to make him appear flat. Steve has, like, five points of articulation in his entire body. Those are two completely separate issues and comparing the two only works insofar as "weird stuff can work", which is self-evident and doesn't really prove anything. Hell, if you're gonna go the comparison route, R.O.B. would honestly be a more apt comparison.

I think you'll love this video, it's the best way to explain it:

Again, I remain entirely skeptical on any claims by people claiming they know who's coming for DLC. Polar's source so far has proven to be the most accurate in that regard as he clearly stated no one knew who was coming. No leakers ever stated Joker, and no offense to Xenother, but I cannot take this with anything but a grain of salt. I can believe that's what his source claims sure, but the information currently is doubtful. That, and the stats for Brave prior to the removal for the update do not seem to match Erdrick based on other insider descriptions.

Meanwhile, even news outlets like Nintendo Life still think Erdrick is coming. So it stands to reason that anyone that isn't Erdrick will be unexpected.

(Which Reggie wanted all along. )

 

[MissingGlitch]

I stand by fully that creeper would be better representation than Steve.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think we will have a direct soon revealing brave, and I even think there could be a Smash Direct revealing brave and the 3rd DLC character.

There will definitely be a reveal at E3, and I think it will be either the 3rd or 4th DLC character (again, maybe both), and I think the final DLC character will be revealed in August or September.

Again, it was only said that all the DLC would be released by Feb 2020. Nothing was said about when they would reveal the DLC.

Smash 4's DLC cycle lineup announcements and releases:

announced at the 50-Fact Extravaganza in October of 2014. Released in April of 2015.

announced in a Nintendo Direct in April of 2015. Released along with and during E3 in June of 2015.

announced in a Nintendo Direct in November of 2015. Released in December of 2015.

and announced in a Nintendo Direct in December of 2015. Released in February of 2016.

So as you can see, it's possible Joker, Brave, and the 3rd character will be available in June, than the last two characters will be announced either in November or December and be released in February of next year.

After they reveal the 5th dlc character do you think we’ll get another dlc wave?

That depends probably on if the Season Pass does well enough in sells or if Sakurai wants to continue development on Smash Ultimate longer than that.

 

[Deleted member]

Erdrick is still coming. Steve is still coming. None of that has changed.

Wanna join the steve support thread?

 

[Deleted member]

Has Xenother gotten stuff right yet? Until their claims are substantiated I'm gonna choose to take it with a grain of salt rather then believing anything they say tbh. I just find it hard to believe that one of their sources saw a ****ing playable Steve build when Joker isn't even done yet and Brave has barely begun work yet (I recall them saying that a while ago)

I mean I trust PolarPanda somewhat because she got the Power Rangers thing right and admitted to nobody really knowing the DLC and everything being thrown around as just rumors, and I trust Verge somewhat because he got a hell of a lot of things right for base game (even though he did miss the whole "we're getting an SE rep first" thing which makes me think that his sources don't fully know the DLC like Polar said)

Like IDK one probably legitimate leaker saying that they trust another one SOUNDS good, but that's also what happened with Vergeben and Hitagi.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Wanna join the steve support thread?

Lol! I thought you were a Banjo supporter? Or are you both?

 

[MissingGlitch]

No offense to Dragon Quest and Minecraft fans. But Reggie tried to make it clear that Joker reflects the rest of the DLC. Unexpected and out of nowhere. Dragon Quest and Minecraft wouldn't really fit that criteria on sales numbers alone. As people fully expect those two series to be represented in Smash at some point.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

No offense to Dragon Quest and Minecraft fans. But Reggie tried to make it clear that Joker reflects the rest of the DLC. Unexpected and out of nowhere. Dragon Quest and Minecraft wouldn't really fit that criteria on sales numbers alone. As people fully expect those two series to be represented in Smash at some point.

Phoenix Wright would fit that bill. After seeing Joker get in, I think Wright's chances skyrocketed and I believe he has a amazing shot to get in.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Phoenix Wright would fit that bill. After seeing Joker get in, I think Wright's chances skyrocketed and I believe he has a amazing shot to get in.

OBJECTION!
There’s not objection at all.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Phoenix Wright would fit that bill. After seeing Joker get in, I think Wright's chances skyrocketed and I believe he has a amazing shot to get in.

God I wish. Unexpected, WTF character, well known but not super known while having a devoted fan base. He's perfect.

 

[DaxMasterix]

OHH I REMEMBERED I’M HYPED AF FOR THE TRILOGY PHEONIX WRIGHT LETS GOOO


perdon, nunca más

 

[MissingGlitch]

OHH I REMEMBERED I’M HYPED AF FOR THE TRILOGY PHEONIX WRIGHT LETS GOOO


perdon, nunca más

Funny enough. I am pretty sure there is another game they announced for the switch that isn't the trilogy. But they have been really tight lipped about it. I might be remembering wrong though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I say the evidence for Steve really isn't concrete.

1. We know Nintendo and Microsoft met this past summer but we don't know for what. If it was actually for a game, I seriously doubt Phil Spencer would have publically shared it like he did.

2. On this note, people were play testing the game as early as August meaning that would be way too early if the decision was made after E3.

3. Several play testers have said that Minecraft content was not in the play test build and one even called out Vergeben on it.

This isn't to say Minecraft won't happen but there's definitely conflicting information out there.

 

[Deleted member]

No offense to Dragon Quest and Minecraft fans. But Reggie tried to make it clear that Joker reflects the rest of the DLC. Unexpected and out of nowhere. Dragon Quest and Minecraft wouldn't really fit that criteria on sales numbers alone. As people fully expect those two series to be represented in Smash at some point.

You seriously cannot tell me you expected Dragon Quest or Minecraft would be in Smash before an insider mentioned them.

 

[Deleted member]

You seriously cannot tell me you expected Dragon Quest or Minecraft would be in Smash before an insider mentioned them.

yeah tbh if we pretend leakers don't exist for a hot second steve would actually be hella surprising

 

[MissingGlitch]

It's why I included sales numbers. So even if they were revealed without being leaked people would be like "oh well that makes sense" I wouldn't call them shocking like Joker. It's more of the hindsight affect. Sure we may not think about it before hand. But it makes completely sense when you do see it. So you aren't exactly surprised. Joker still has the "wait why? What?" Feeling to him. Which makes me think he was a good choice. You seriously can't tell me with how much SE tries to promote SE in Japan and how often Nintendo and Microsoft partner up for Minecraft that it would make the characters a complete shock and surprise.

 

[Bendario]

Everyone is STILL discussing fake leaks from supposed "insiders" that couldn't guess Joker? Really? I came here expecting to see everyone gushing about Viridi mentioning Chewies and Megasmilax in here Piranha Plant dissertation. I absolutely loved it.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Everyone is STILL discussing fake leaks from supposed "insiders" that couldn't guess Joker? Really? I came here expecting to see everyone gushing about Viridi mentioning Chewies and Megasmilax in here Piranha Plant dissertation. I absolutely loved it.

Well then. Let me tell you how Geno is the perfect choice. Devoted fan base, not the most well known. Basically leak proof because nobody is going to believe a leaker who leaks out Geno at this point. Easiest character to use leak bait for since the leak bait sounds more believable then Geno. Brave stats are really convincing for Geno and the amount of Super Mario RPG references is surprising. Meaning that Nintendo has the game on the mind. From what we have heard NoA loves the character.

And that was my Ted talk.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, after ruminating (and Fatman already clarifying things I was about to say, too), the Steve claim is more than likely a falsehood. Let me go into detail why:

1) Noatesty. You know Noatesty? Yeah, that guy who leaked PP before anyone else did, before that watermarked video started spreading among insiders... because they were a play tester. Their claims on what was in the play test builds they played were as follows: Ken, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant, the last of them cited as a 'DLC character pretty much finished'. Nowhere is there any mention of Steve or any sort of Minecraft content.

2) The Ken leak. We all know by now that the Ken image leak from way back when is as real as it gets. The play tester screenshotted that, presumably sometime during or after August (as that's about when the picture started floating around). In that play-test build, we had at least Ken and Incineroar... and 'supposedly' Steve. Why would they leak Ken when everyone and their mother already predicted he'd be in? Likely because it was all that they had of substance apart from Incineroar. You'd think a leaker like this would leak out something as monumental as Steve being in test builds, but they leaked Ken. This one isn't as concrete as the Noatesty claim, but it is something to keep in mind.

3) Polar's source, whose track record is impeccable, claims that no one knows the DLC. Now, if Steve was present in those early play-test builds, wouldn't everyone know that he's DLC? It lends more credence to the idea that Steve is a popular water cooler rumor rather than anything solid.

4) According to Fatman, a person I highly trust with connections to insiders (including our own Polar), several play testers have called Verge out on the Steve claim, stating that he was nowhere to be found in their test builds.

Basically, everything points against this. As a result, the rest of the Steve and Erdrick claims from Xenother's source(s) are ones to be taken with not a grain of salt, but with a massive wheelbarrow of salt. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Xenother. That being said, I think they should be more careful about what they claim with certainty when there are a lot of holes in what they present.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Everyone is STILL discussing fake leaks from supposed "insiders" that couldn't guess Joker? Really? I came here expecting to see everyone gushing about Viridi mentioning Chewies and Megasmilax in here Piranha Plant dissertation. I absolutely loved it.

To be fair, we already did that the day Plant dropped.

I stand by fully that creeper would be better representation than Steve.

I honestly kind of agree with you here. For how much people gush about how "iconic" Steve is, Creeper is pretty much more recognizable on all accounts even in spite of Steve being shoved in everyone's faces and basically was the game's unofficial mascot before the suits decided on the player character. The only thing that'd put me off about this idea is that it'd mean pulling the "generic mook" shtick twice in one game, and it might be tough to come up with a full moveset for a mob that just explodes.

 

[Door Key Pig]

So was the case that we're not entirely convinced that Erdrick (and Steve?) are coming or are we?

 

[MissingGlitch]

Honestly, after ruminating (and Fatman already clarifying things I was about to say, too), the Steve claim is more than likely a falsehood. Let me go into detail why:

1) Noatesty. You know Noatesty? Yeah, that guy who leaked PP before anyone else did, before that watermarked video started spreading among insiders... because they were a play tester. Their claims on what was in the play test builds they played were as follows: Ken, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant, the last of them cited as a 'DLC character pretty much finished'. Nowhere is there any mention of Steve or any sort of Minecraft content.

2) The Ken leak. We all know by now that the Ken image leak from way back when is as real as it gets. The play tester screenshotted that, presumably sometime during or after August (as that's about when the picture started floating around). In that play-test build, we had at least Ken and Incineroar... and 'supposedly' Steve. Why would they leak Ken when everyone and their mother already predicted he'd be in? Likely because it was all that they had of substance apart from Incineroar. You'd think a leaker like this would leak out something as monumental as Steve being in test builds, but they leaked Ken. This one isn't as concrete as the Noatesty claim, but it is something to keep in mind.

3) Polar's source, whose track record is impeccable, claims that no one knows the DLC. Now, if Steve was present in those early play-test builds, wouldn't everyone know that he's DLC? It lends more credence to the idea that Steve is a popular water cooler rumor rather than anything solid.

4) According to Fatman, a person I highly trust with connections to insiders (including our own Polar), several play testers have called Verge out on the Steve claim, stating that he was nowhere to be found in their test builds.

Basically, everything points against this. As a result, the rest of the Steve and Erdrick claims from Xenother's source(s) are ones to be taken with not a grain of salt, but with a massive wheelbarrow of salt. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Xenother. That being said, I think they should be more careful about what they claim with certainty when there are a lot of holes in what they present.

So I know the word is thrown around a lot to make us feel better. But from all your points. Wouldn't signs be pointing to Steve being the leak bait? Because all leakers seem to think he is coming. But they all have conflicting reports with wrong information or refuse to clarify how they know for sure it's Steve. Just 'he's in"

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly kind of agree with you here. For how much people gush about how "iconic" Steve is, Creeper is pretty much more recognizable on all accounts even in spite of Steve being shoved in everyone's faces and basically was the game's unofficial mascot before the suits decided on the player character. The only thing that'd put me off about this idea is that it'd mean pulling the "generic mook" shtick twice in one game, and it might be tough to come up with a full moveset for a mob that just explodes.

This is another one of those Slime vs. Erdrick things. I'd rather play as the character I play as in Minecraft as it would better fit the experience of what Minecraft is. Not the more prominent mook. Personally, a Creeper being in Steve's moveset would be fantastic. Like he summons a Creeper for his side special and it walks forward until it gets close to someone. Think of it like Bowser Jr.'s down-special.

 

[Ovaltine]

So I know the word is thrown around a lot to make us feel better. But from all your points. Wouldn't signs be pointing to Steve being the leak bait? Because all leakers seem to think he is coming. But they all have conflicting reports with wrong information or refuse to clarify how they know for sure it's Steve. Just 'he's in"

I wouldn't say he's leak bait, per se. It's more like he's a popular choice in terms of likelihood, and it's more than likely a strong rumor rather than anything actually concrete.

 

[3DSNinja]

Which means that Banjo could be the MS rep. and honestly Sora is brave. Erdrick doesn't match up.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Which means that Banjo could be the MS rep. and honestly Sora is brave. Erdrick doesn't match up.

So those leakers could have been bs-ing us for whatever reason? (in terms of Erdrick)

 

[MissingGlitch]

So those leakers could have been bs-ing us for whatever reason? (in terms of Erdrick)

We can only hope haha

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't think leakers would go out of their way to BS stuff. If it isn't Erdrick for some reason (although I'm pretty sure it is), then the leakers were just as mislead as we were.

 

[DaxMasterix]

So I know the word is thrown around a lot to make us feel better. But from all your points. Wouldn't signs be pointing to Steve being the leak bait? Because all leakers seem to think he is coming. But they all have conflicting reports with wrong information or refuse to clarify how they know for sure it's Steve. Just 'he's in"

Sadly I cannot remember a time were actual leakers got leakbaited.

I see Erdrick Coming, I don't see Erdrick being Brave, I don't see Steve Coming.

See how in the end we're gonna get a double jumbo by getting the DQBuilders Hero, Minecraft x Dragon Quest baby

 

[MissingGlitch]

Sadly I cannot remember a time were actual leakers got leakbaited.

I see Erdrick Coming, I don't see Erdrick being Brave, I don't see Steve Coming.

See how in the end we're gonna get a double jumbo by getting the DQBuilders Hero, Minecraft x Dragon Quest baby

It's just really weird having conflicting messages of "no one knows the DLC" and "Steve and Erdrick are guaranteed". In betweens seem really rare.

 

[DaxMasterix]

It's just really weird having conflicting messages of "no one knows the DLC" and "Steve and Erdrick are guaranteed" in betweens seem really rare.

Well, Polar is in the "Steve and Erdrick are very very likely right now" team right? Maybe it's source, who claimed that no one knows the DLC, also claims Steve and Erdrick are coming