Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

Much obliged! :D

Same here :D

 

[Datboigeno]

So I finally got to the Geno battle an hour ago (I’d taken a big break from WoL to play online and with friends) and after a couple attempts he’s mine. It was pretty surreal to actually be going through the spirit fight after weeks and weeks of talking about it and seeing screenshots. He’s my primary spirit now and even though I have a couple more powerful ones I don’t expect to switch out anytime soon.

 

[bardbowman]

People are latching onto the idea because of the whole DBFZ fiasco. It's wishful thinking because a lot of people are now realizing that Dragon Quest in Smash may be the Monkey's Paw and a white elephant rolled into one, especially if it turns out Toriyama/Bird Studio is more or less responsible for killing the DBFZ competitive scene. Put another way, people are hoping Nintendo didn't **** the bed.

The reason why I still entertain the leakbait idea is simply because it's Square we're talking about. Throughout this entire cycle, we've all been told repeatedly and emphatically about their ridiculously harsh practices to discourage leaks, up to and including destroying people's careers.

So I know two things. One, that leakbait is something they're not above using. Two, that it's crazy-rare to get a solid leak from them, at least when we're (presumably) this far out from hearing anything official.

With that in mind, when all the insiders are locking in the SE character, leakbait is my automatic reaction. It's not "latching." Sure, I've got bias towards Geno, but I'm not saying that there's no way the leak could be legit. There's certainly an argument to be made for DQ.

But I'm not an insider. Everything I've been told has been through a chain of hearsay. So I can't rule out the leakbait alternative.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I honestly think I'd be okay with just about any potential SE character other than Erdrick. All the other realistic non-Geno candidates at least have icon status, so I couldn't exactly blame Nintendo for choosing them, even if I don't like them personally. Eddy, on the other hand, is an absolute no-name outside the core DQ fandom, which doesn't exactly include a whole ton of people. I get that he's supposed to be Dragon Quest's Marth or something like that, but let's be real, his reveal would generate enough crickets to fill the entire Western hemisphere. He'd be a complete waste of a third-party slot, in my book, kind of like if they decided on Don-chan as the next Namco rep. (No idea who that is? Exactly.) At least Slime's recognizable, if a bit generic.
The recent developments regarding DBFZ don't give me good vibes about DQ content in general, either. I'm not gonna jump to conclusions, but I'm getting anxious over the idea of Nintendo or Square jumping into an enticing deal without considering or being aware of the repercussions.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly think I'd be okay with just about any potential SE character other than Erdrick. All the other realistic non-Geno candidates at least have icon status, so I couldn't exactly blame Nintendo for choosing them, even if I don't like them personally. Eddy, on the other hand, is an actual, literal who outside the core DQ fandom, which doesn't exactly include a whole ton of people. I get that he's supposed to be Dragon Quest's Marth or something like that, but let's be real, his reveal would generate enough crickets to fill the entire Western hemisphere. He'd be a complete waste of a third-party slot, in my book, kind of like if they decided on Don-chan as the next Namco rep. (No idea who that is? Exactly.) At least Slime's recognizable, if a bit generic.
The recent developments regarding DBFZ don't give me good vibes about DQ content in general, either. I'm not gonna jump to conclusions, but I'm getting anxious over the idea of Nintendo or Square jumping into an enticing deal without considering or being aware of the repercussions.

Wait who is Don-Chan?

 

[SSGuy]

Persona isn't on the Switch, and KH3 is definitely not a rival. In fact, KH3 may very well appear on the Switch after it releases on the consoles it was made for. To quote its director, Tetsuya Nomura, directly:

“The Nintendo Switch is definitely a very interesting piece of hardware, but if we lightly say, ‘Oh yeah, we’ll be on the Nintendo Switch,’ I’m sure people will come back and say, ‘But what about the PS4 and Xbox One? We want them out first. Don’t focus on other platforms. So for now, we want to focus on what platforms we’ve already announced we’re going to be releasing Kingdom Hearts 3 on. And so after, perhaps, maybe we can start thinking about other possibilities."

He never said it won't appear on Switch, he just said it wouldn't appear at the same time as it releases on PS4 and Xbox. Plus, what better way to announce KH3 for Switch than with a Smash reveal? This interview was from July 2017, so it seems likely to me that they've thought about how much money they'd make if they included Sora after more than a year's worth of thinking.

I wouldn't say Sora is out of the running quite yet. However, he is technically owned by Disney, and although Disney usually asks Square to include him in certain things, I don't necessarily think he'd count as a Square rep.

Someone made a great point earlier about how Sakurai being told to move up Joker's reveal is a big blow to what some people consider as a mind blowing pick like Sora. The only way Sora's reveal could be justified is if he was saved till a bit later. However, the fact that they made this big of an announcement so early is probably due to the fact that Nintendo wanted to send one of, if not their biggest DLC card out first.

Vergeben was also for sure stating that Sora was definitely the name who was not going to be in so I am going with that. Regardless of how many sources may have cut him loose, it doesn't take away that he has heard all of these names pre-release which means that information is in play.

 

[MondoMega]

Wait who is Don-Chan?

The Taiko no Tatsujin mascot. They're actually already in Smash, as part of Pac-Man's Up Taunt.

 

[Deleted member]

The Taiko no Tatsujin mascot. They're actually already in Smash, as part of Pac-Man's Up Taunt.

Thanks for explaining. I should look him up lol. Or them

 

[childishgamgeno]

So one other point that I wanted to point out before in my list of reasons I think Geno has less of a chance is that he didn't make the base roster. Ridley made it, K. Rool made it, but not Geno or any other big character from back in the Melee/Brawl days.

Now you may argue that '3rd parties are more difficult to deal with and are more likely for DLC' and while this is true for certain companies, I give you all the 3rd party that made it into the base roster: , , , , , , . Sure, there is reasoning behind all of them, but remember that the reasoning Sakurai gave for Simon is that he 'placed high in the Ballot.' As we know from mock polls going on during that time, there is no chance that Simon placed extremely high in the polls and whether or not was actually a winner or previously planned and had lots of votes so they picked her is irrelevant here because we saw the K. Rool campaigns and we know who was likely in the top ten, yet only Simon is mentioned as being a Ballot pick? This leads me to believe that it wasn't just the ballot placing but also company negotiations, and we know that Konami loves to play game with Sakurai when it comes to Smash.

While this would seemingly lead towards Geno being potential DLC, this added in with my previous points really makes it seem like Geno's chances are slim to none and we will have to be happy with our Spirit.

I was gonna post all this on Christmas Day but I decided to just relax and do much of nothing, and low and behold the man, the myth, the legend who should REALLY get a Golden Sun-themed intro for his videos...@Billybae10K drops his next Rate Their Chances vid and tackles both BWD and Geno. I'll link it here, but honestly it's just more of what I had said, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who is paying attention to the overwhelming signs of Geno's chances falling off dramatically. My only issue with @Billybae10K is that he keeps addressing Sora as a 'Square Rep' when it's been proven time and again that he's a Disney Rep. Sure, they have to get Nomura's blessing, but Sakurai and Nomura are buds so that's not very difficult. It's just like a Trademark, essentially: Disney didn't make him, but they 100% own him and everything Kingdom Hearts.

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Now comes the part where I will address counter points, because I feel it's rude to just ignore points people make against your arguments, as well as it making you a weak debater. This first one is more of a snarky response though....




Hmm, it's almost like I address this already...I'm just teasing, but I was referring to this interview when I mentioned Sakurai did have some involvement with Spirits. I guess I'm more to blame for not including a link, but the interview had been out for a while so I assumed everyone knew what I was referring to.



This is points towards Geno being just a Spirit if you ask me: Mario has incarnations like Gold Mario and Metal Mario and Cat Mario, etc etc. These are all separate variations of Mario, and if you believe the theory that all the Smash variations of our favorite characters are not the versions from their original series but more like spin-off versions like in the countless Sports games, then this helps Geno because there is only one version of Geno, thus the Smash playable Geno would be a different Geno. If you don't believe it and believe that the Smash fighters are the original characters, then Geno has no chance.



Sure, but not all Spirit Battles are equal in terms of effort put behind them. Some are cute, some are '...yeah, I guess I can see it', and some are 'Wow, they really put some effort into this one!' I feel like most of the Legendary Spirits probably fall under that last one, and Geno is no exception.



Uhh...Square Enix =/= Atlus or Sega? Just because Square only lets Sakurai have two versions of Cloud for Spirits doesn't mean EVERY company will be like that. Also there already are 3rd party Spirits for characters that likely will never make it, like the Rabbids and Sonic characters, and none of those seem to be hinting at anyone. In fact, if we had datamined a Persona Spirit before the Joker reveal, we would barely be having this discussion, not at all if that Spirit was Joker.



Ridley and King K. Rool are both first party, so they both had less hurdles to jump to get into Smash. Also, before someone brings up Simon and Richter, I will again mention Konami plays nicer with their IPs and characters for Smash than Square ever will in their lifetime as a company.



Woof, I never noticed that my first read-through, but he does kinda lump them all together, doesn't he?



This is slightly misleading: Fighter Spirits are nothing but trophies/stickers and literally do nothing, but you can also win functional Spirits through Classic Mode as well. Just because a playable fighter has a Spirit that does nothing doesn't mean that Spirits that do something don't deconfirm characters.

With all this addressed, I would like to point out three interesting things I have found.

1. Geno and Mallow are listed as Mario Spirits, not falling under the category 'Other' despite being Square characters. I get that they are essentially Mario characters to us, but the fact that Nintendo considers them Mario characters too is interesting to say the least...either that or anyone who breathes Mario's air is considered a Mario character.

2. Petey Piranha is a Spirit, twice: he upgrades from Nipper Plant and also has a Super Strikers Spirit, and we all know he is part of Piranha Plant's FS. Of course this checks out with the Super Sonic Spirit as well, I just thought this was an interesting tidbit.

3. Possibly the most important, we must remember that for the DLC characters we have seen so far, they have at least no Spirits of themselves (Piranha Plant) and at most no Spirits from their entire franchise (Joker). Of course things can change, but if the next character reveal either doesn't have a Spirit of themselves OR a Spirit from their franchise at all, I can confidently say we should apply the 'third time's the charm' adage and figure that is a telling sign of who is DLC and who isn't. It feels like we are once again in a state where the next reveal tells all.

Didn't want to ignore you. You make some good and convincing points, so I wont draw this out longer than I should.

1. I feel like, yes, at this point I guess we're either hoping for "Smash Geno" or that Sakurai straight up doesn't care (similar to Lucas and Mewtwo)

2. Right. Square Enix is absolutely not Sega or Atlus, and thats kind of the point. All three companies have representatives in Smash, and Spirit wise, Sega has several spirits in game. Those wouldn't be hinting at anything because those characters arent super requested like Geno for one, and none of them are like "Shadow (Original)". If there was a Joker datamined spirit already before release, that would mean they would've been working on him since before DLC was even confirmed, which would be a whole other thing. But why would you even include his data in the base game? PPlant's isnt even there if im not mistaken. My point with this was SE in a similar fashion to Sega, has reps in Smash. Sega has several spirits from properties in game from those respective games, (Bayo and Sonic) while SE only has Cloud, and two fighter spirits at that (no other FF characters)

I feel Piranha Plant not having a spirit could be because he was being worked on before release. Since Joker is DLC it makes sense there would be no Atlus Spirits.

People are latching onto the idea because of the whole DBFZ fiasco. It's wishful thinking because a lot of people are now realizing that Dragon Quest in Smash may be the Monkey's Paw and a white elephant rolled into one, especially if it turns out Toriyama/Bird Studio is more or less responsible for killing the DBFZ competitive scene. Put another way, people are hoping Nintendo didn't **** the bed.

Also people are starting to think the Erdrick/Joker leak took a blow because Sakurai said Joker wasnt playable in any form yet, and the leak states that Joker summons Jack Frost with a skill. Hmmmmm

 

[Tetrin]

I've been giving it some thought and I think that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't look too hard into Joker being "emblematic" of the DLC choices. While he could represent a fairly niche selection of characters, he could also be the most niche character chosen, hence why he was chosen to be revealed at the Game Awards; game junkies would most likely know who he is already. I don't necessarily mean Nintendo is going to fill the DLC with first party picks that have long been speculated, but the picks may not be as obscure as we think they'll be.

 

[MondoMega]

Also people are starting to think the Erdrick/Joker leak took a blow because Sakurai said Joker wasnt playable in any form yet, and the leak states that Joker summons Jack Frost with a skill. Hmmmmm

I definitely think that Joker/Erdrick leak is looking sketchy. Right now, I feel like we're looking at a similar situation to that one 4chan Dante leak, where they mixed correct information (in that case, DMCV details) with false information (Dante being in Smash). In the case of the Erdrick leak, the P5R part is likely correct, but the Smash part isn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Good night y'all. Once again, I encourage you not to speculate too much, and play some of your favorite games :D I am doing this with Mother 3 and Super Mario RPG, and I will do this with Earthbound and Mother 1

 

[ForsakenM]

Aw, gosh, thanks, man! I'm afraid I don't take commissions at this time, but I'd be happy to let you know whenever I open them back up again!

Sweet, glad to hear it! People who can draw well/produce quality art should be able to get paid for it imo. I say this because as much as I can imagine things in my head, I can't draw it: I can only express it in words, thus I respect those who bring their thoughts to life in a visual medium.

I know it has little (nothing really) to do with Geno, but I wanted to share something my cousin made. It's art of a character I made of for DnD and haven't got to use much but I love the concept of him, the art is in the attachments area.

Didn't want to ignore you. You make some good and convincing points, so I wont draw this out longer than I should.

1. I feel like, yes, at this point I guess we're either hoping for "Smash Geno" or that Sakurai straight up doesn't care (similar to Lucas and Mewtwo)

2. Right. Square Enix is absolutely not Sega or Atlus, and thats kind of the point. All three companies have representatives in Smash, and Spirit wise, Sega has several spirits in game. Those wouldn't be hinting at anything because those characters arent super requested like Geno for one, and none of them are like "Shadow (Original)". If there was a Joker datamined spirit already before release, that would mean they would've been working on him since before DLC was even confirmed, which would be a whole other thing. But why would you even include his data in the base game? PPlant's isnt even there if im not mistaken. My point with this was SE in a similar fashion to Sega, has reps in Smash. Sega has several spirits from properties in game from those respective games, (Bayo and Sonic) while SE only has Cloud, and two fighter spirits at that (no other FF characters)

I feel Piranha Plant not having a spirit could be because he was being worked on before release. Since Joker is DLC it makes sense there would be no Atlus Spirits.

Okay, so here is why I think there are no Persona Spirits: because they will obviously come packaged with Joker, rather than being in the base game and causing speculation. Thus, if the most obvious choice is to package them with Joker, then it's likely that the other DLC characters will have Spirits packaged with them as well. This is one of the reasons I think Spirits of characters we want is bad because they are already IN the base game and clearly would have been saved to be packaged with them upon release.

Now this isn't to say that Geno or Rayman or Bandanna Dee couldn't come in with other Spirits, but I think the likelihood is lower since key characters around them are already Spirits int he base game including themselves. This is why I feel like we should look at other characters from big 3rd party franchises who don't have Spirits in the base game and assume that those are the likely ones we will get while still wishing for Geno on the side.

EDIT: Oh hey, if that Ninten fan guy sees this, I'm sorry I don't remember your name, but you mentioned Ninten uses other weapons. Does he also learn PSI moves that Ness doesn't?

 

[Deleted member]

Sweet, glad to hear it! People who can draw well/produce quality art should be able to get paid for it imo. I say this because as much as I can imagine things in my head, I can't draw it: I can only express it in words, thus I respect those who bring their thoughts to life in a visual medium.

I know it has little (nothing really) to do with Geno, but I wanted to share something my cousin made. It's art of a character I made of for DnD and haven't got to use much but I love the concept of him, the art is in the attachments area.



Okay, so here is why I think there are no Persona Spirits: because they will obviously come packaged with Joker, rather than being in the base game and causing speculation. Thus, if the most obvious choice is to package them with Joker, then it's likely that the other DLC characters will have Spirits packaged with them as well. This is one of the reasons I think Spirits of characters we want is bad because they are already IN the base game and clearly would have been saved to be packaged with them upon release.

Now this isn't to say that Geno or Rayman or Bandanna Dee couldn't come in with other Spirits, but I think the likelihood is lower since key characters around them are already Spirits int he base game including themselves. This is why I feel like we should look at other characters from big 3rd party franchises who don't have Spirits in the base game and assume that those are the likely ones we will get while still wishing for Geno on the side.

EDIT: Oh hey, if that Ninten fan guy sees this, I'm sorry I don't remember your name, but you mentioned Ninten uses other weapons. Does he also learn PSI moves that Ness doesn't?

Ok I may have lied about going to bed. Again.

Ninten can use PK Beam from Ana. It's not a move that he can use, but since Ness and Lucas represent their party members' PSI attacks through their moveset, it would be good to give Ninten PK Beam.

He uses many assist PSI like offense up, offense down, defense up, defense down, quick up, etc.

4th-D-Slip is a move Ninten uses for a guaranteed escape from enemies (doesn't work on bosses though). This can be used as a warp recovery.

I think PK Shield is a good down b. It can function in Ninten getting hit by an attack, but taking half the damage from a normal attack. The regular shield for all the fighters prevents the fighter from taking damage for a certain amount of time, then the shield breaking, leaving them open to a really strong attack. Ninten's can differ from this by taking half the amount of damage you would take without the shield, and it does this 3 times. After the shield gets hit 3 times, you can't put up another one for some time.

And yes, excuse me for getting riled up yesterday.

Hopefully Geno and Ninten make it :D

 

[Xigger]

I've been giving it some thought and I think that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't look too hard into Joker being "emblematic" of the DLC choices.

Reason #1: The person who said Joker is the type to expect was Reggie Fils-Aime.
Reason #2: Anytime Smash fans assume a rule or pattern, it's usually wrong.

 

[HolyKnight]

Why would you hope for that???

because if AT was the problem, DQ content would probably be 100% deconfirmed.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

because if AT was the problem, DQ content would probably be 100% deconfirmed.

Would it really? I mean, it is DBZ of all things. And even if it is him, there's no guarantee that Smash would go the same way.

 

[Ovaltine]

Sweet, glad to hear it! People who can draw well/produce quality art should be able to get paid for it imo. I say this because as much as I can imagine things in my head, I can't draw it: I can only express it in words, thus I respect those who bring their thoughts to life in a visual medium.

I know it has little (nothing really) to do with Geno, but I wanted to share something my cousin made. It's art of a character I made of for DnD and haven't got to use much but I love the concept of him, the art is in the attachments area.

Oh, DUDE. That is sick. Your cousin definitely has a lot of talent. I'm also a D&D player myself, albeit more casually than most, and dang, I really like that, and it makes me wonder how interestingly he'd play in the context of a campaign!

To make this post Geno-related: please never forget how he runs into a wall in canon because it's a beautiful thing.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Fun fact: In a television commercial promoting the game in North America, Exor was referred to as "Smithy the Sword", so even the commercial tried to throw the consumers off with Exor being the main antagonist of the game.

Mine was a huge reaction and plot twist after finding out the giant sword was named Exor, not Smithy... I'd also like to know why Exor's mouth is named NEOSQUID; I don't know if the game translator was high or what, but the name for his mouth always got me confused. Also, Chuggaaconroy had the same reaction when he encountered Exor, and he said, "IS THAT SMITHY?" I think Chuggaa plays his let's plays before he records them, but I'm not sure about his SMRPG series from 2008, that could've been his first, second, or third time playing it.

I can't see a Final Fantasy character because the composer is on a hiatus, so a FF character is unlikely. I honestly think Geno would be the next one running if Erdrick is leakbait and if Crono is out. I don't see Sora because KH3 is a competitor to Nintendo, plus the game isn't on the Switch, so I don't see him either. Neku is a little too late because his game came on the Switch back in September, and his game was on the DS, so having Neku would be weird because Nintendo wouldn't be able to promote anything, it's a character not many are asking for, and it's an underrated game; most of the sales come from Japan, so it's in a Dragon Quest situation with having most of the sales in one country instead of worldwide. (The game's sales are under 100k, that's even worse than Color Splash's sales.) A character from Octopath Traveler would be weird, but the DLC may lead to promotion for future games, and Joker is an example of that because there's a rumor going around that Persona 5 R is coming to the Switch. Also, the game was developed by Acquire, so Square will have to split profits with Acquire if they use an Octopath character.

Geno seems like the best decision:
-Not owned by multiple companies, he's 100% Square like Cloud is.
-He's the easiest to achieve because they can already use him.
-Sakurai wants him.
-He's a perfect fan service character that will make the fans happy.
-He will appeal to a lot of Smash players.
-Because Geno is owned by Square, they will get Geno's profits instead of splitting it with multiple companies they collaborate with.

One thing for sure is, Ted Woolsey was probably pressed for time (seeing how Hinopio's and some regular Mario enemy names got transliterated). Although this particular instance might have been a simple oversight of a name inadvertently being put at the wrong place somehow, seeing as there's several squid-like monsters seen throughout the game.

That said, your reasoning on SE character chances seems pretty sound.

Tinfoil hat time.

I've had this suspicion that Sakurai made the push for a Persona rep and it was more his doing than Nintendo's. It seems odd that Nintendo wants to add the character that's not on their system yet Sakurai gushes over (disregarding the possibility of a Switch version for now). Also the fact they finished choosing the line up, then less than a month after they announce Joker. I wonder if this was in the works for a good while.

Remember the Steve leak? It happened the same way. Text leak that got something else unrelated right so the Smash part must be true. Smash rumors have become so big that people will add it to legitimate rumors for attention or just trolling (a lot of these are coming from image board mind you). It could be fake. I can see Nintendo picking Dragon Quest; they love the series. However, what does seem odd is they would pick the character from the first game and not the newest one. Just food for thought.

Not even the first game: Erdrick is from DQIII. The most recent game that had his descendant (the actual main character of DQ1) was Dragon Quest Builders, and even then the guy's been dead for decades in that game's backstory, mostly since

Spoiler

it takes place after DQ1's bad ending.

Also, it's really lucky that Joker's mandatory Nintendo appearance game (Persona Q2) got released in Japan a mere week before Ultimate. I honestly wonder if Sakurai was privy to witnessing the early development stages of Q2 before his final decision on Joker.

The reason why I still entertain the leakbait idea is simply because it's Square we're talking about. Throughout this entire cycle, we've all been told repeatedly and emphatically about their ridiculously harsh practices to discourage leaks, up to and including destroying people's careers.

So I know two things. One, that leakbait is something they're not above using. Two, that it's crazy-rare to get a solid leak from them, at least when we're (presumably) this far out from hearing anything official.

With that in mind, when all the insiders are locking in the SE character, leakbait is my automatic reaction. It's not "latching." Sure, I've got bias towards Geno, but I'm not saying that there's no way the leak could be legit. There's certainly an argument to be made for DQ.

But I'm not an insider. Everything I've been told has been through a chain of hearsay. So I can't rule out the leakbait alternative.

I still wonder if they gave Hashimoto a pay cut after he replied to that one Sora Smash tweet. The guy's got the loosest lips in the company, even if they're not planning on including Sora.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, Joker not even having a tangible form yet is a little concerning because it makes me wonder if we'll even see him before the end of Spring. People were already playtesting Pirhana Plant as far back as August and it's not due out for another month. It also begs the question about how a Square character was supposedly known as far back as August and it's not even the first character out of the gate. I still lean into the idea that it was either for base or up first but something hit a major snag along the way. The recent announcement that Dragon Quest XI S is TBA outside of Japan adds further concerns because the whole argument of it being added to Smash promote Dragon Quest in the West sort of just crumbles if the Western release is just a giant question and probably not until Q1 2020 at the earliest.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

If the rep IS for DQ; I just want to say that for such a cracking down on leaks company, a LOT of people are saying DQ is a shoo in.... kind of makes you think.

 

[Ovaltine]

Yeah, Joker not even having a tangible form yet is a little concerning because it makes me wonder if we'll even see him before the end of Spring. People were already playtesting Pirhana Plant as far back as August and it's not due out for another month. It also begs the question about how a Square character was supposedly known as far back as August and it's not even the first character out of the gate. I still lean into the idea that it was either for base or up first but something hit a major snag along the way. The recent announcement that Dragon Quest XI S is TBA outside of Japan adds further concerns because the whole argument of it being added to Smash promote Dragon Quest in the West sort of just crumbles if the Western release is just a giant question and probably not until Q1 2020 at the earliest.

The fact that PP was already in play-testing for base makes me also wonder what else might have been in the project plan, only to be saved later for either the Fighter's Pass or completely different DLC altogether. It definitely lends to the many ID slots, some of which would surely be for alts, some of which could also be for fighters or echoes. Maybe there was more planned for base game than we know, but given nothing was removed from the project plan, they're being saved for later down the line. It definitely makes me wonder if Erdrick, Geno, or both were planned for base game, but because of Square being Square, they were pushed for later. Considering the evidence that Sakurai had Geno on his mind while Ultimate was being ironed out, I wouldn't be surprised if they were both being planned, and it would explain the sheer amount of snags that lasted months.

Of course, though, this is all massive reaching and theorycrafting. MASSIVE reaching and grasping for shreds of hope lmao. Please acknowledge that with my post here, y'all.

 

[link2702]

Whelp my free trial of switch online ended so sadly I won’t be online in ultimate again unless geno(..or banjo...) gets revealed as playable. That or Nintendo gets their act together and makes the service something actually worth paying for. Got up to 2.2 million with my Ganondorf in elite smash so i was at least satisfied with that.

Slightly off topic I know. Anyway, now to start a new play through of smrpg.

Wonder if I should attempt it on my original cartridge and just see how long the battery holds out...

 

[HolyKnight]

Would it really? I mean, it is DBZ of all things. And even if it is him, there's no guarantee that Smash would go the same way.

Probably. he's known to be a bit overprotective of his assets.

 

[The Anigriffin]

The fact that PP was already in play-testing for base makes me also wonder what else might have been in the project plan, only to be saved later for either the Fighter's Pass or completely different DLC altogether. It definitely lends to the many ID slots, some of which would surely be for alts, some of which could also be for fighters or echoes. Maybe there was more planned for base game than we know, but given nothing was removed from the project plan, they're being saved for later down the line. It definitely makes me wonder if Erdrick, Geno, or both were planned for base game, but because of Square being Square, they were pushed for later. Considering the evidence that Sakurai had Geno on his mind while Ultimate was being ironed out, I wouldn't be surprised if they were both being planned, and it would explain the sheer amount of snags that lasted months.

Of course, though, this is all massive reaching and theorycrafting. MASSIVE reaching and grasping for shreds of hope lmao. Please acknowledge that with my post here, y'all.

I’m willing to bet a few of the DLC characters were cut from base roster and pushed to DLC either due to time constraints (Holiday release) being held back to help in pushing a new game, or because someone’s a tad greedy. (Third parties such as square.)

With that missing character 70 slot we know someone was planned but got cut decently early.

 

[Ovaltine]

I’m willing to bet a few of the DLC characters were cut from base roster and pushed to DLC either due to time constraints (Holiday release) being held back to help in pushing a new game, or because someone’s a tad greedy. (Third parties such as square.)

With that missing character 70 slot we know someone was planned but got cut decently early.

I do have to wonder about that missing slot because it has its own victory theme, really. It wouldn't be PP, I'm sure, because it'll likely just share Bowser's/Bowser Jr.'s victory theme, as it is a Mario enemy. Whoever it was had a separate theme, and frankly, I don't think it'd be Geno. He'd likely share Mario's/Peach's/Daisy's/etc. It does lend a bit to the theory of Erdrick being planned for base, if not someone else who would require a new victory theme.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Probably. he's known to be a bit overprotective of his assets.

Of Dragon Quest specifically? Or just with DBZ, his biggest one in this case?

 

[The Anigriffin]

I do have to wonder about that missing slot because it has its own victory theme, really. It wouldn't be PP, I'm sure, because it'll likely just share Bowser's/Bowser Jr.'s victory theme, as it is a Mario enemy. Whoever it was had a separate theme, and frankly, I don't think it'd be Geno. He'd likely share Mario's/Peach's/Daisy's/etc. It does lend a bit to the theory of Erdrick being planned for base, if not someone else who would require a new victory theme.

Question about that, was it a new victory theme made for Ultimate (Like K Rool’s) and no one knows what it is yet or something else entirely? Hmm, maybe it’s just a placeholder like the Brawl slots.

Love me a good rabbit hole.

 

[Ovaltine]

Question about that, was it a new victory theme made for Ultimate (Like K Rool’s) and no one knows what it is yet or something else entirely?

It very likely was a brand new victory theme made for Ultimate. Index numbering lead people to make guesses on what times characters were implemented because of coding logic and how indexing is performed. I don't think it's a placeholder, given it's placed before even characters like K. Rool's and other new victory themes. It would make less sense as a placeholder of some kind, but more sense as a spot that was meant for a base game character.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I’m willing to bet a few of the DLC characters were cut from base roster and pushed to DLC either due to time constraints (Holiday release) being held back to help in pushing a new game, or because someone’s a tad greedy. (Third parties such as square.)

With that missing character 70 slot we know someone was planned but got cut decently early.

Here's the issue though. People against the spirits theory have suggested that Pirhana Plant was also cut from the base roster, spirits and that's why his spirit isn't in the base game. If we apply that to the season pass DLC fighters as well.....oh vey.

 

[The Anigriffin]

It very likely was a brand new victory theme made for Ultimate. Index numbering lead people to make guesses on what times characters were implemented because of coding logic and how indexing is performed. I don't think it's a placeholder, given it's placed before even characters like K. Rool's and other new victory themes. It would make less sense as a placeholder of some kind, but more sense as a spot that was meant for a base game character.

....Okay that makes me even more intrigued...

Here's the issue though. People against the spirits theory have suggested that Pirhana Plant was also cut from the base roster, spirits and that's why his spirit isn't in the base game. If we apply that to the season pass DLC fighters as well.....oh vey.

I personally don’t believe in that whole spirits deconfirm shenanigans so to me it’s a simple theory that’s all. Just like 80% of what this thread is most of the time

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I personally don’t believe in that whole spirits deconfirm shenanigans so to me it’s a simple theory that’s all. Just like 80% of what this thread is most of the time

Still though, you gotta wonder why PP's spirit isn't there yet if spirits don't matter.

 

[Deleted member]

Still though, you gotta wonder why PP's spirit isn't there yet if spirits don't matter.

PP is a bonus my guy

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

PP is a bonus my guy

Yeah, and I was addressing the idea that DLC characters from the pass as well, were characters held back. If we apply the logic of PP for why his spirit was held back, then what's stopping the same from applying to the Season pass fighters?

Nothing concrete.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Still though, you gotta wonder why PP's spirit isn't there yet if spirits don't matter.

Only one in development at the time? That’s my explanation.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Only one in development at the time? That’s my explanation.

So he came before the Season pass fighters. You do realize the implications there right? He's the furthest in development. And if he was held back, like others which was suggested earlier, then it stands to reason they'd all be treated the same after him.

They're DLC, so they're all essentially "bonuses". He's just free for a limited time and doesn't come with a new stage.

And again. Why doesn't he have a spirit at all if they didn't care? Again, so far, the pattern involving spirits either way, hasn't been broken or debunked yet.

 

[HolyKnight]

Of Dragon Quest specifically? Or just with DBZ, his biggest one in this case?

everything he does art for hes rather protective of.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, and I was addressing the idea that DLC characters from the pass as well, were characters held back. If we apply the logic of PP for why his spirit was held back, then what's stopping the same from applying to the Season pass fighters?

Nothing concrete.

All the stat data for PP is already in the game, so the cut character is most likely a different character:

Except all the stat data for PP is already in the game:

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/RunSpeed

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/AirSpeed

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/WalkSpeed

http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/Weight

As for being in the base, that's also been theorized and people have come to the conclusion that they just simply ran out of time on it.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

everything he does art for hes rather protective of.

Yeah, but protective enough to crash the competitive scene of a game? Not likely or proven yet. And we'd need to know the specifics of such a case igmf he is the culprit to know if it would even be a danger to Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I do have to wonder about that missing slot because it has its own victory theme, really. It wouldn't be PP, I'm sure, because it'll likely just share Bowser's/Bowser Jr.'s victory theme, as it is a Mario enemy. Whoever it was had a separate theme, and frankly, I don't think it'd be Geno. He'd likely share Mario's/Peach's/Daisy's/etc. It does lend a bit to the theory of Erdrick being planned for base, if not someone else who would require a new victory theme.

Since Mario and Bowser have different victory themes from each other, I think Geno's victory theme could be the victory theme from Mario RPG