Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Sovereign Trinity]

You know, something that boggles my mind and leaves me feeling extra unhappy with the 'compensation' we got with Geno is just...

I feel like they didn't really try? Look at Isaac, the poor guy. They recognized his popularity and absolutely inundated the game with Golden Sun material. Music, an assist, spirits, icons, the brand new Mii costume... They went all out on consolation. For Geno and Mallow and anything SMRPG-related, I feel like they were just kind of afterthoughts. What do we have from them? Two spirits and an icon, and if we're lucky, maybe a ported Mii costume from Sm4sh. That's it. No music, no new costumes, no assists... nothing.

I know it's likely because of Square being Square, but why pay for Geno and Mallow to be in the game if a ported costume and a few reused PNGs are all we're getting? That's such an awful slap to the face. I'd be grateful for what little we got, but hell if it doesn't feel like an insult and squandering potential. To pay that much to get those rights and only use them for a cheap Mii costume port and some PNGs doesn't even make business sense, either. It feels like a huge waste.

It honestly just feels like a bad deal. That's how Square is, being stingy and just want profit. Sakurai sacrificed two limbs for the Geno Mii costume, but to be honest, he deserves much more than that. Square is just weird, they're too stingy and won't even offer a deal to Nintendo about selling the SMRPG characters; I believe one of the reasons behind that is because of Miyamoto. Square just won't let go of their past with Nintendo, and even after all Nintendo's done for them, they're still weird with Nintendo. Man, Nintendo really must've hurt Squaresoft's feelings back in the late '90s. As I said before with making fun of them, they're like that one kid in the classroom who won't talk to anyone unless you got some food for them. Sakurai basically had to give Square two 5-star meals in order to talk to Square.

I just find it ridiculous how Square has no problem working with Bandai Namco, Capcom, Ubisoft, Disney/Marvel, Activision, and Avalanche Studios, but they have the most problems with Nintendo, yet Nintendo wants to work with them the most. Very ironic. I mean, for ****'s sake, Square even works with the developers of Smash 4 and Ultimate, how hard is it for them to be kind to Sakurai and let him use some of your content to showcase your stuff? I'd feel honored to have my stuff showcased in one of the greatest crossovers of all time.

 

[Ovaltine]

It honestly just feels like a bad deal. That's how Square is, being stingy and just want profit.

I agree, which is why this weird business deal doesn't make much sense to me. If it was such a hassle to have Cloud not be DLC, if that rumor is true, then why do we even have those SMRPG spirits? If Cloud was something they demanded profit on and they barely managed to strike a deal there, why is it that Geno and Mallow apparently got in with no problem if Geno wasn't meant to turn a profit? Even with the Mii costume returning (if it does), they just can't turn over much. It's a massive profit loss for Nintendo and Sora Ltd. when it's just porting over some PNGs and a model, sacrificing those funds to do so. It's a disservice to fans, too, to have these spirits in the base game and nothing else to show for their efforts for now. Again, I have to remind everyone of the fact that SMRPG has so much less consolation than Golden Sun has, when Nintendo is more aware of Geno's popularity and was apparently less so for Isaac's. It's... yikes.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I agree, which is why this weird business deal doesn't make much sense to me. If it was such a hassle to have Cloud not be DLC, if that rumor is true, then why do we even have those SMRPG spirits? If Cloud was something they demanded profit on and they barely managed to strike a deal there, why is it that Geno and Mallow apparently got in with no problem if Geno wasn't meant to turn a profit? Even with the Mii costume returning (if it does), they just can't turn over much. It's a massive profit loss for Nintendo and Sora Ltd. when it's just porting over some PNGs and a model, sacrificing those funds to do so. It's a disservice to fans, too, to have these spirits in the base game and nothing else to show for their efforts for now. Again, I have to remind everyone of the fact that SMRPG has so much less consolation than Golden Sun has, when Nintendo is more aware of Geno's popularity and was apparently less so for Isaac's. It's... yikes.

I have a weird feeling that it's a placeholder of sorts. To keep people occupied until he eventually comes as DLC. Though I'm one of the biggest tin foil hatters here so shrug. Sometimes they end up right.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I look at the placeholders as being a lot just to be safe. It means things like full alts are possible. And I do believe gender or extremely unique costumes that aren't literal palette swaps have their own ID, though I can't confirm it. This actually makes a lot of sense and explains why there's so many ID's.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've vaguely heard about this placeholder Slot ID thing, but can someone give me an explanation (or a source)?

From what I understand, each of these IDs are taken up by unique character appearances (so, for example: Builder Mario and Wedding Mario have separate IDs from regular Mario). If that's the case, we can already place three of the placeholder slots:

1. Piranha Plant (Pot)
2. Piranha Plant (Pipe)
3. Joker

I might as well summon PokéfreakofBACON once again, they can explain it the best.

Other massive support groups whose characters are less expensive to get ahold of seem more probable profit-wise than Geno. Further, Geno's costliness is a major setback that even smaller support groups may have an advantage just for being cheaper.

To end off an a positive note, however, Geno would irrefutably garner truckloads of money Nintendo's way. Fan favorite, original, Sakurai bias, Nintendo seemingluand the very likely many years of Smash Ultimate DLC to come may be enough just this once to pave our way to victory.

Given that, I honestly wonder which third party companies would be the least expensive to use new characters from. We're familiar with Konami, Sega, Platinum and Bamco by now, but what about the SNKs and indies of the world?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Yeah, IDs are not characters, they're "skins" more or less. Alternate genders, different outfits, slightly different models, different voice/name, etc. Basically, if it changes more than just colors, it takes up an ID. Bowser Jr. takes up 8, Bayonetta Cloud and Corrin take up 2 each, etc. I actually completely forgot about Piranha Plant, yeah he'd probably take up 2 slots as well because of the pipe/pot thing. Joker might take up 2 slots if he has a maskless alt.

The main thing to remember is: This exact situation happened in Smash 4, and all the slots were eventually filled. They actually added an extra empty character ID slot before it was filled, so we're more likely to get MORE than 29 than we are to get less than 29, if you ask me. That doesn't mean 29 characters, though. It's 29 IDs. This could mean anything between 29 characters, to 6 characters who take up 29 IDs collectively.

(As an example, if Piranha Plant took up 2, Joker took up 2, 3 of the remaining characters in the fighter pass took up 8, and the last one took 1, then that'd be 29. I shouldn't have to tell you how unlikely that is, though.)

30's still a ton though and even if they added a hypothetical Dragon Quest character that had 8 totally separate ALTs for different "Heroes" in the series, we'd still have more than half of them to consider. On that note, are the Inklings ID'd separately? I know the boy and girl are but what about their clothing options?

I know for a fact that Villager only takes up 2, despite the different clothes and hairstyles, so I'd imagine it might be the same for Inkling. I do not know if that's the case or not, take this with a grain of salt. The Inkling skins are a bit more complex than the Villager ones, after all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm actually really happy that Sakurai's so happy about Joker being in Smash. It gives a lot of credence to Sakurai still being a big factor in deciding characters even if Nintendo's still the one that ultimately pulls the lever. If you haven't seen the latest Persona X Smash Bros video on Twitter, you really should because Sakurai looks like he could ring a doorbell from six feet away the entire time. The guy just looks that enthused that Persona's coming to Smash. It also makes me believe that Nintendo's not going to add anyone that Sakurai isn't genuinely excited to work with.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I know for a fact that Villager only takes up 2, despite the different clothes and hairstyles, so I'd imagine it might be the same for Inkling. I do not know if that's the case or not, take this with a grain of salt. The Inkling skins are a bit more complex than the Villager ones, after all.

That depends. Say for example that you had Marco in here. You can't possibly fit both the rest of the Peregrine Falcons (Trevor and Nadia included) and Ikari Warriors as his alts (that would be 9 characters in total including him), but if Fio was an Echo of him, it could be doable (since Metal Slug characters have similar proportions in their series). Marco/Tarma/Trevor/Ralf/Clark can make up 5 IDs, while Fio/Eri/Nadia/Leona is 4 IDs.

So, basically, if a character has an identity that's established enough or have an element/costume of them that's different enough, they can fit an ID slot. Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are a textbook, though isolated, case in regards of having a big amount of IDs.

 

[Tetrin]

Yeah, IDs are not characters, they're "skins" more or less. Alternate genders, different outfits, slightly different models, different voice/name, etc. Basically, if it changes more than just colors, it takes up an ID. Bowser Jr. takes up 8, Bayonetta Cloud and Corrin take up 2 each, etc. I actually completely forgot about Piranha Plant, yeah he'd probably take up 2 slots as well because of the pipe/pot thing. Joker might take up 2 slots if he has a maskless alt.

The main thing to remember is: This exact situation happened in Smash 4, and all the slots were eventually filled. They actually added an extra empty character ID slot before it was filled, so we're more likely to get MORE than 29 than we are to get less than 29, if you ask me. That doesn't mean 29 characters, though. It's 29 IDs. This could mean anything between 29 characters, to 6 characters who take up 29 IDs collectively.

I don't know about you guys, but I find this information to be vital. Before we conjure absurd numbers of DLC characters, this probably means they'll add more than 5 DLC characters as long as the Fighter's Pass sells well (which it almost inevitably will) and some characters will have various alt skins. This might be a stretch, but may be able to guess some of the characters they plan on adding if we know at least one of them will most likely constitute a few character IDs.

Given that, I honestly wonder which third party companies would be the least expensive to use new characters from. We're familiar with Konami, Sega, Platinum and Bamco by now, but what about the SNKs and indies of the world?

I think with indies, there are 3 possibilities.

1) The indie company admires higher-ups and therefore the rights to their characters' usages in Smash would be less expensive.
2) The indie company thinks this might be a big break for them and tries to sap as much money from Nintendo as possible, having the rights to their characters' usages in Smash more expensive than usual.
3) The indie company is a collective edgelord and unwilling to lend Nintendo anything for fear of being the gaming industry's equivalent of sellouts.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm actually really happy that Sakurai's so happy about Joker being in Smash. It gives a lot of credence to Sakurai still being a big factor in deciding characters even if Nintendo's still the one that ultimately pulls the lever. If you haven't seen the latest Persona X Smash Bros video on Twitter, you really should because Sakurai looks like he could ring a doorbell from six feet away the entire time. The guy just looks that enthused that Persona's coming to Smash. It also makes me believe that Nintendo's not going to add anyone that Sakurai isn't genuinely excited to work with.

I wholeheartedly agree. Just look at this man.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Though this next post made it kinda sad. I just hope that if he continues to work on Smash, he will continue to be able to work with things he enjoys.

How the hug REALLY went between Sakurai and Morgana pic.twitter.com/GHB1J8VHlU

— ScruffyTurtles (@ScruffyTurtles) December 27, 2018

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

https://nintendowire.com/news/2018/...mate-will-have-separate-dlc-for-mii-costumes/

This is not a drill!

 

[Deleted member]

https://nintendowire.com/news/2018/...mate-will-have-separate-dlc-for-mii-costumes/

This is not a drill!

Old news, m8

I honestly think it's just Mii costumes from Smash 4 ported over or new Mii costumes

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Old news, m8

I honestly think it's just Mii costumes from Smash 4 ported over or new Mii costumes

>December 27th, 2018

The writer must be a real then.

I think with indies, there are 3 possibilities.

1) The indie company admires higher-ups and therefore the rights to their characters' usages in Smash would be less expensive.
2) The indie company thinks this might be a big break for them and tries to sap as much money from Nintendo as possible, having the rights to their characters' usages in Smash more expensive than usual.
3) The indie company is a collective edgelord and unwilling to lend Nintendo anything for fear of being the gaming industry's equivalent of sellouts.

Seems fair. In regards to Nicalis, I could see them fit category 1.

 

[MondoMega]

>December 27th, 2018

The writer must be a real then.

They are a . That info has been circulating since the game launched.

 

[Ovaltine]

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

 

[The Anigriffin]

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

Your art is so great oh my god.

 

[Fatmanonice]

In other news, Toei has released a statement today saying it's not the one responsible for the DB FighterZ tournament ban, discarding a theory from earlier this week.

http://shoryuken.com/2018/12/27/toe...th-blocking-dragon-ball-fighterz-tournaments/

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So anyway, I did manage to find the whole vid with the Morgana and Sakurai shenanigans, if people want to cap from it:

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

That's magnificent, gal.

 

[HolyKnight]

I'm actually really happy that Sakurai's so happy about Joker being in Smash. It gives a lot of credence to Sakurai still being a big factor in deciding characters even if Nintendo's still the one that ultimately pulls the lever. If you haven't seen the latest Persona X Smash Bros video on Twitter, you really should because Sakurai looks like he could ring a doorbell from six feet away the entire time. The guy just looks that enthused that Persona's coming to Smash. It also makes me believe that Nintendo's not going to add anyone that Sakurai isn't genuinely excited to work with.

*fingers crossed intensifies*

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I'm actually really happy that Sakurai's so happy about Joker being in Smash. It gives a lot of credence to Sakurai still being a big factor in deciding characters even if Nintendo's still the one that ultimately pulls the lever. If you haven't seen the latest Persona X Smash Bros video on Twitter, you really should because Sakurai looks like he could ring a doorbell from six feet away the entire time. The guy just looks that enthused that Persona's coming to Smash. It also makes me believe that Nintendo's not going to add anyone that Sakurai isn't genuinely excited to work with.

I wholeheartedly agree. Just look at this man.
Though this next post made it kinda sad. I just hope that if he continues to work on Smash, he will continue to be able to work with things he enjoys.

I absolutely agree. I think Sakurai should be working on stuff he loves, not dislikes! It feels great to see Sakurai like this, especially after all the stress and lack of sleep he has to go through (Seeing him tired in the August Direct really made me feel bad for him). I'm glad he's happy with Persona being represented in Smash. You know what? Just because of this, I'm getting Joker as DLC. I originally didn't have plans for getting Joker, but Sakurai would be proud of me for wanting Joker on my roster, and I will definitely get him for DLC just because it would make him happy. Now I can imagine someone cosplaying as Geno and Sakurai going up to the Geno cosplayer saying, "I want you in my game. What will it take, a handshake, high five, or a hug?"

 

[Datboigeno]

Thi

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

This is beautiful

 

[HolyKnight]

In other news, Toei has released a statement today saying it's not the one responsible for the DB FighterZ tournament ban, discarding a theory from earlier this week.

http://shoryuken.com/2018/12/27/toe...th-blocking-dragon-ball-fighterz-tournaments/

its toriyama. hopefully.

 

[MondoMega]

In other news, Toei has released a statement today saying it's not the one responsible for the DB FighterZ tournament ban, discarding a theory from earlier this week.

http://shoryuken.com/2018/12/27/toe...th-blocking-dragon-ball-fighterz-tournaments/

It's probably Bird Studio and/or Toriyama then.

Which is still really bad for a Dragon Quest rep or Crono.

 

[Ovaltine]

It's probably Bird Studio and/or Toriyama then.

Which is still really bad for a Dragon Quest rep or Crono.

Yeah, that's really concerning. If this is the case, DQ or Crono would be pretty bad additions to Smash due to what could happen to competitive, and it breaks my heart to say that about Crono especially. Yikes.

 

[Potatu]

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

As always, gorgeous artwork Ovaltine!

 

[Datboigeno]

Yeah, that's really concerning. If this is the case, DQ or Crono would be pretty bad additions to Smash due to what could happen to competitive, and it breaks my heart to say that about Crono especially. Yikes.

Save us Geno! You’re our only hope!

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

Oh my goodness, this is amazing. Watercoloring is the best! Now I'm too afraid to even show my drawings on here, because mine look like they were drawn by a child compared to yours! xD

If Geno does make it in, this is what I hope to see with his design. When he jumps up in the air, we can see a galaxy within his cloak. Why do the most amazing video game characters only get used once and never again? Geno would've been AWESOME in Super Mario Galaxy.

 

[Tetrin]

Probably a stupid question, but does anyone know if Mii costumes take up character IDs?

 

[Ovaltine]

Probably a stupid question, but does anyone know if Mii costumes take up character IDs?

Not a stupid question at all! That being said, no, Mii costumes take up an entirely different space in memory. Even if connected to a fighter, they're very special cases and do not count as character IDs. Only characters themselves and model-edited alternate outfits of those characters are filed into those IDs.

 

[MondoMega]

So, is anyone able to provide a full list of these character IDs? I'm just super curious about the internal workings of Smash, and I want to see stuff like the order, numbering system, and what gets it's own ID (for example, i'm wondering if Hoddie Little Mac, Wireframe Little Mac and Wireframe Hoodie Little Mac all have separate IDs)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm actually really happy that Sakurai's so happy about Joker being in Smash. It gives a lot of credence to Sakurai still being a big factor in deciding characters even if Nintendo's still the one that ultimately pulls the lever. If you haven't seen the latest Persona X Smash Bros video on Twitter, you really should because Sakurai looks like he could ring a doorbell from six feet away the entire time. The guy just looks that enthused that Persona's coming to Smash. It also makes me believe that Nintendo's not going to add anyone that Sakurai isn't genuinely excited to work with.

Seeing how much he likes reuniting with his old guard series, I'd like to think he'll go "oh heck, why not?" sooner or later.

Apart from that, it's an exciting prospect.

It's probably Bird Studio and/or Toriyama then.

Which is still really bad for a Dragon Quest rep or Crono.

And suddenly my eventual hopes for Jessica sank even lower...

 

[The Anigriffin]

Not a stupid question at all! That being said, no, Mii costumes take up an entirely different space in memory. Even if connected to a fighter, they're very special cases and do not count as character IDs. Only characters themselves and model-edited alternate outfits of those characters are filed into those IDs.

So that’s why Bayo appears twice in voice test...

 

[EarlTamm]

In other news, Toei has released a statement today saying it's not the one responsible for the DB FighterZ tournament ban, discarding a theory from earlier this week.

http://shoryuken.com/2018/12/27/toe...th-blocking-dragon-ball-fighterz-tournaments/

This is pretty big and could affect things severely for DQ. I wonder what the Square thread would think of this news.

 

[Megadoomer]

So that’s why Bayo appears twice in voice test...

I think that might be because, in the Japanese version, one of her costumes has English voice acting while another has Japanese. (From what I recall, Bayonetta 1 was originally released in English with Japanese subtitles, and only got a Japanese dub once the animated movie came out) I haven't looked at the sound test closely, but maybe they had two different versions of Bayonetta's lines to make the Japanese version match up with the rest.

 

[MondoMega]

I think that might be because, in the Japanese version, one of her costumes has English voice acting while another has Japanese. (From what I recall, Bayonetta 1 was originally released in English with Japanese subtitles, and only got a Japanese dub once the animated movie came out) I haven't looked at the sound test closely, but maybe they had two different versions of Bayonetta's lines to make the Japanese version match up with the rest.

Yep, you're totally right. Bayonetta 1 Bayo uses the English voice in the Japanese version.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is pretty big and could affect things severely for DQ. I wonder what the Square thread would think of this news.

The fact that Namco is dancing around it is especially concerning because they know it's a super unpopular decision and knows that there will be huge backlash if and when it ever comes out. I'm already concerned about competitive Smash Ultimate because the infighting in the community is bad and the game isn't even a month old yet, nevermind the idea that Smash Ultimate could be banned from Apex and Super Smash Con if Bird Studio does wind up being the culprit of the DBFZ ban.

 

[The Anigriffin]

The fact that Namco is dancing around it is especially concerning because they know it's a super unpopular decision and knows that there will be huge backlash if and when it ever comes out. I'm already concerned about competitive Smash Ultimate because the infighting in the community is bad and the game isn't even a month old yet, nevermind the idea that Smash Ultimate could be banned from Apex and Super Smash Con if Bird Studio does wind up being the culprit of the DBFZ ban.

...Okay yeah I don’t think DQ is a lock at all at this point... Is it possible? Sure. But after this. I dunno...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So yeah, that Erdrick "leak" that was shown earlier this month may have been...

Especially given that it was so unusually detailed.

 

[Fatmanonice]

To be fair, there's a lot of IP owners for DBZ but this bit of news makes it significantly less likely it's on the anime side of things and more on the actual characters. I also don't know Dragon Quest would be treated exactly the same but we do know that Bird Studio is extremely protective of the brand and the most likely to be the source of the problem unless the Bandai (basically the liscensors of a huge portion of DBZ merch) side of Namco-Bandai is simply being dishonest in all of this.

Plot Twist: Sakurai planned this all along to make sure Smash Ultimate never developed a competitive scene and a personal gift to himself on the 20th anniversary of the series.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Finished another Geno illustration today! I based it on Rosalina's underside having galaxies within them. It made me think, what if Geno could do that?

... okay, let's be real, it's a moment of Ovaltine coming in with her Edgy Aesthetic™ bull****e, but hey, I had a lot of fun making it! Watercolor style is so fun to work in!

Omg, it's so freaking beautiful!!