Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Sovereign Trinity]

That’s why Cloud and Simon are in Smash.

And potentially Lloyd if his comment about his Mii Costume are any indication.

And...

 

[Tetrin]

Oh boy, here come the cool kids on the block, wish I could be like them and take things out of context to make cute quips instead of provide anything relevant to the situation...

Oh, you guys are serious? You mean, when I blatantly said in that exact paragraph and talking point that they are listed as Mario characters by Nintendo and not SMRPG characters when they are owned by Square, you didn't see that part and cut it short or glossed over it because reading is difficult? Jesus Christo, guys, this forum doesn't have to be funshine and rainbows every waking moment especially when the reality is our character is mostly forgotten and obscure and likely has little chance to return in anything, much less the greatest platform fighter that was ever made and ever will be made.

Sorry if my desire to be realistic and as unbiased as possible to represent all possible options and scenarios clashes with your dream paradise.

If it's truly realism you desire, then you'd understand that fanservice can go a long way. I'd say the top 3 most requested characters throughout the entire community for Sm4sh (in no specific order) were Ridley, K. Rool, and Mewtwo. K. Rool hadn't been in a game for almost as long as Geno (excluding his appearance in Sluggers), so once more: if it's realism you seek, then you'd take into account that K. Rool made it in BEFORE Dixie Kong because he'd been so adamantly requested by such a large portion of the community. Further, Ridley made it in, despite Sakurai saying he's "too big" and will therefore "never be in the game". K. Rool had potential, but Ridley was undeniably a sinking ship back then, so realistically, how is it that Ridley is in the game now? "Well", you might say, "K. Rool and Ridley were VASTLY more requested than Geno". And you're right, they were. Were. They were highly requested a while back, but who is highly requested now (hint: it's Geno)? About your remark about Geno being "forgotten"; no. WatchMojo makes the most normie top tens of all time, and on their list of characters that the fans want, Geno weighed in at #3. Obviously, their list was far from accurate, but WatchMojo still included Geno over Isaac and Banjo, who I'd say are objectively more requested than him. But if that's still not enough, here's a list of reasons why he's not "forgotten":

Spoiler

Click here

(for the image above, this was in no way sponsored by anyone; they just happened to tweet it)
Geno is a legendary spirit in Smash, above Captain Toad, Birdo, Petey Piranha, Waluigi, Boom Boom and Pom Pom, and even Fawful, whose a way bigger face of the Mario RPGs than Geno.

If your idealism is realism, you wouldn't shun the thought of fanservice and instead acknowledge how far it can go.

Of course, as much as the community loves to ask for odd character inclusions, we do appreciate realism. So much so, in fact, that our "realistic" predictions for the DLC characters had so rarely included Joker that it may very well have never happened. Instead, we prioritized Sylux, Adeleine, and even Poochy just because they didn't have spirits. Now obviously, the DLC isn't out yet, so these characters could all easily be in, but they're likelihood dropped as soon as Joker had been revealed. At the other end of the spectrum, Erdrick was also a scarcely mentioned character before Joker, but suddenly people are going so far as to prematurely confirm him. The options went from very few to unimaginably many in a matter of seconds, even more so than when Cloud was confirmed. You're saying we need to be as realistic as possible, but reveals dating back all the way to Sonic and Snake in Brawl just go to show that the reality is always changing, so actually being realistic is recognizing just how many possibilities there are. On that note, how is Piranha Plant in the game? Was he a realistic prediction to make?

I think most important of all is when you say "chance". You'd think everyone in this community is part of the development team for Smash with how often we judge a character's "chance" of being in Smash, but as it turns out, we have absolutely no clue about anything. We say Erdrick is "likely" based on what we know, but what we know could just be the tip of the iceberg. The whole thing could be leakbait, and Square could be laughing their asses off at our petty attempts of pinpointing who their rep might be, and that's assuming they even have one. Geno may not be the next character announced, but at the same time he could. We just don't know.

I think I'd be fine with your post if you didn't pose your argument like you're so in tune with what's going on. Like you're the very embodiment of realistic choices-- the grand arbiter of what will and won't happen. You made "all possible options and scenarios" and "dream paradise" very much a black and white, but who's to say they can't coexist? Do you know just how many people's days were made finding out Joker was revealed? In any case, try to sound a little more down-to Earth when you speak; after all, you're in the same, oblivious boat as the rest of us.

 

[Datboigeno]

Oh boy, here come the cool kids on the block, wish I could be like them and take things out of context to make cute quips instead of provide anything relevant to the situation...

Oh, you guys are serious? You mean, when I blatantly said in that exact paragraph and talking point that they are listed as Mario characters by Nintendo and not SMRPG characters when they are owned by Square, you didn't see that part and cut it short or glossed over it because reading is difficult? Jesus Christo, guys, this forum doesn't have to be funshine and rainbows every waking moment especially when the reality is our character is mostly forgotten and obscure and likely has little chance to return in anything, much less the greatest platform fighter that was ever made and ever will be made.

Sorry, that was a bit rude of me, I was busy channeling my inner Datboigeno



Doesn't matter why it was held, only that is was held. Nipper Plant wasn't, Petey Piranha wasn't, but Piranha Plant itself was? It's also an interesting note that, had we not datamined the game prior to release, we wouldn't know that until just recently Joker/Persona and Piranha Plant don't have regular Spirits in the game...meaning we would have this SAME exact argument that Spirits deconfirm characters vs they do not deconfirm except the conversation would be fresh and new instead of being almost a month old now. It's also funny because if either character comes with playable Spirits of either themselves or their franchise, then it nigh-confirms that Spirits will never be playable DLC characters.

With that in mind it seems that thus far, like I mentioned already, DLC characters at least do not have themselves in the base game as a functioning Spirit and at most have no one from their franchise as a functioning Spirit. Thus, unless the third reveal breaks this trend, I think it will be safe to say that Spirits do in fact deconfirm if they are of the playable variety.

Also, word to those who are getting upset over wording: most people are open to suggestion and just don't feel like adding 'maybe' or 'it's not 100, but...' or 'I mean I think it's silly, but suppose it was possible' to everything they type or say. Thus, when someone is talking about a theory, they can wholly not believe in it and never mention once anything that implies they don't believe it. Most people are intelligent enough that they don't believe far-fetched theories, but they merely like to humor them, like how I humor all the small things that people point out to when they think their obscure character has a chance for Smash.

Sorry if my desire to be realistic and as unbiased as possible to represent all possible options and scenarios clashes with your dream paradise.

Imagine spending so much time writing literal essays and namedropping people who never interact with you on a super smash bros forum

Imagine thinking people would actually read all of this

 

[Deleted member]

Geno fans, I got a question to ask y’all:

Do you feel like Sakurai himself is the best chance Geno ever has in Smash considering he personally desired him since Brawl?

If a new director finally steps in, would he ever know who he is and go through the trouble of negotiating with Square or it will greatly hurt his chances due to a lack of personal interest like Sakurai had?

Not shooting him down, I’ve just been curious since this has been on my mind.

I think so. To know we have the creator of the game at our side, supporting us and acknowledging us is something that we are very grateful to have

 

[ShroomEL]

Geno fans, I got a question to ask y’all:

Do you feel like Sakurai himself is the best chance Geno ever has in Smash considering he personally desired him since Brawl?

If a new director finally steps in, would he ever know who he is and go through the trouble of negotiating with Square or it will greatly hurt his chances due to a lack of personal interest like Sakurai had?

Not shooting him down, I’ve just been curious since this has been on my mind.

While Nintendo is aware of the fact that Geno has been a very popular request, and that most of us are hoping for him, I think yes, Sakurai is the best chance of Geno getting in. His bias for Geno has caused him to attempt to get him in before, only managing to get a Mii costume in the past. If another director stepped in and oversaw everything, Geno would likely not get in at all. Square is obviously stingy about their property, and a new director with no bias for Geno would likely lean to easier and more recognizable reps, opting out of going through the trouble of negotiating for Geno's entry, not even bothering with square, and square being, well, square, probably wouldn't approach nintendo about getting Geno in.

 

[RandomAce]

And...

Richter was the result of Simon.

He was a little vague saying that “it has to be a Belmont”, but I’m pretty sure he had Simon in mind and later picked up Richter since he was the a very popular character ( I think he was the most popular Belmon).

 

[Deleted member]

Richter was the result of Simon.

He was a little vague saying that “it has to be a Belmont”, but I’m pretty sure he had Simon in mind and later picked up Richter since he was the a very popular character ( I think he was the most popular Belmon).

Now the next step is for them to add Geno and Zelmont :D

(And Ninten)

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Richter was the result of Simon.

He was a little vague saying that “it has to be a Belmont”, but I’m pretty sure he had Simon in mind and later picked up Richter since he was the a very popular character ( I think he was the most popular Belmon).

Because the man wanted to resurrect Dracula and beat him again to show off that he's the strongest Belmont, that definitely makes Richter the most badass and my favorite Belmont.

Geno fans, I got a question to ask y’all:

Do you feel like Sakurai himself is the best chance Geno ever has in Smash considering he personally desired him since Brawl?

If a new director finally steps in, would he ever know who he is and go through the trouble of negotiating with Square or it will greatly hurt his chances due to a lack of personal interest like Sakurai had?

Not shooting him down, I’ve just been curious since this has been on my mind.

Well, Tokoyami, I think it's the best chance Geno has because he's basically sitting right next to Sakurai's throne for selecting newcomers in his game. I'm sure whenever Sakurai started his development for Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate, he wanted Geno to be next in line for a newcomer, which is probably when he went to go see Square or Nomura to see if they can work something out. (Actually, maybe this is true because Ultimate's base roster was decided at the start, and DLC could've been decided at the beginning of the game too.) If Lloyd makes it in as a DLC character, I actually see that as a pro for Geno because he and Geno were removed third-party Mii costumes, so this could be a sign; the fact that we got a Geno Mii costume with a special introduction in the final Smash 4 presentation could mean something, and I honestly think it could be foreshadowing his debut for being DLC. Lloyd and Geno were technically part of the Smash 4 DLC, and there's a chance they could be upgraded to DLC fighters.

Geno would definitely be out of the fight if there was a new director. After Sakurai's retirement, I can see Nintendo and Bandai Namco trying to make another Smash without Sakurai, and we'll definitely see some ridiculous picks, but I'm not buying it because Sakurai isn't a part of it. I'd actually be ashamed of Nintendo and Bandai Namco for trying to make a new Smash game without Sakurai.

 

[ZelDan]

I could kind of see spirits going either way when it comes to confirmation. They are a very easy addition and likely didn't take much development time (a single one wouldn't anyways). That said, from what I hear, both Geno and Isaac just so happen to be some of the strongest spirits in the game, and both are fan favorites. This does almost kinda seem like a way of Sakurai saying "hey I know you like these characters, but this is the best we can do," sort of similar to the K Rool costume in Smash 4. I'm going to wait and see what the next couple DLC fighters to see if there's a pattern. If the next 2 fighters are characters that are currently spiritless, then yeah, I might go ahead and side with "spirits deconfirm characters." If we get a character that IS a spirit as a DLC character, then, well, obviously spirits don't deconfirm.

I will say, that even is spirits are deconfirmed for the fighter's pass, ,maybe we will get another one in the future where Sakurai will do promotions of spirits and maybe even ATs? Sakurai can always change his mind. Maybe something taht was originally deconfirmation could no longer be an issue.

 

[Deleted member]

I will admit his chances significantly drop if our boy doesn't make it into wave 1 DLC or a new person takes over development of Smash, but this isn't going to stop me from supporting him. I will not give up. This is what people did with Ridley and K Rool - they didn't give up, despite multiple times being neglected by Sakurai and Nintendo respectively. I encourage you all not to give up either. We stay vocal, and we will eventually get what we have been desiring if we don't give up.

I will never give up on our star boy getting a spot on the roster, and neither should you!!!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wouldn't say his chances drop at all if a new director comes in. We don't know what their biases are.

It's the same reason why there was no reason to believe getting a new director would've upped Ridley's chances. Cause we don't know who the person is or what they would want. Until it happens, we got zero information to really make a tangible theory off of.

 

[LemurExpress]

So people who want to be added to the list:
@DaxMasterix
@KirbyWorshipper2465
@Hot_N_Tasty
The Anigriffin
Tetrin
GoodGrief741
Sovereign Trinity
MondoMega
Datboigeno
@GrungeMan
@Shado-will
@HolyKnight
@Loliko YnT
@Maxie
@Krooli
@REZERO
@Ovaltine
@Theanimator10
@Dr. Jojo Phantasma
@PokéfreakofBACON
@Potatu
@The Trashman
@hopper13
@waterhasataste
@CoinedLuck
And myself
(Please let me know if I missed anyone who would like to be on it)

Me too!

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't matter why it was held, only that is was held. Nipper Plant wasn't, Petey Piranha wasn't, but Piranha Plant itself was? It's also an interesting note that, had we not datamined the game prior to release, we wouldn't know that until just recently Joker/Persona and Piranha Plant don't have regular Spirits in the game...meaning we would have this SAME exact argument that Spirits deconfirm characters vs they do not deconfirm except the conversation would be fresh and new instead of being almost a month old now. It's also funny because if either character comes with playable Spirits of either themselves or their franchise, then it nigh-confirms that Spirits will never be playable DLC characters.

With that in mind it seems that thus far, like I mentioned already, DLC characters at least do not have themselves in the base game as a functioning Spirit and at most have no one from their franchise as a functioning Spirit. Thus, unless the third reveal breaks this trend, I think it will be safe to say that Spirits do in fact deconfirm if they are of the playable variety.

Also, word to those who are getting upset over wording: most people are open to suggestion and just don't feel like adding 'maybe' or 'it's not 100, but...' or 'I mean I think it's silly, but suppose it was possible' to everything they type or say. Thus, when someone is talking about a theory, they can wholly not believe in it and never mention once anything that implies they don't believe it. Most people are intelligent enough that they don't believe far-fetched theories, but they merely like to humor them, like how I humor all the small things that people point out to when they think their obscure character has a chance for Smash.

Sorry if my desire to be realistic and as unbiased as possible to represent all possible options and scenarios clashes with your dream paradise.

Hey, I was just reminding people that it was held off for that reason, and you go ahead and give me an entire freaking essay about spirits and datamining, etc, etc.

Also, did you even READ my post? It was held off because it was STILL IN DEVELOPMENT. And you're questioning why base game spirits weren't held off but a DLC character's was.

All I'm doing now is waiting for this whole "Do spirits deconfirm or not" discussion to end via an official statement from Sakurai, that's all.

I can't wait to get another essay as a response

 

[MondoMega]

I can't be the only one who is hoping Geno makes it in, not just for our sake, but for Sakurai's sake too, right? Sakurai's recent comments about working on Joker are pretty interesting, especially this part: "I personally hold Persona 5 in high regard, and I think it’s exciting to be able to work on it closely like this". It's really uplifting to see Sakurai being passionate about working on something he likes. So wouldn't it also be great for him if he able to finally include a certain star boy who he is fond of and was already considered for Smash in the past?

 

[Deleted member]

Me too!

You have been added to the list

I can't be the only one who is hoping Geno makes it in, not just for our sake, but for Sakurai's sake too, right? Sakurai's recent comments about working on Joker are pretty interesting, especially this part: "I personally hold Persona 5 in high regard, and I think it’s exciting to be able to work on it closely like this". It's really uplifting to see Sakurai being passionate about working on something he likes. So wouldn't it also be great for him if he able to finally include a certain star boy who he is fond of and was already considered for Smash in the past?

Yes. Yes it would.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't be the only one who is hoping Geno makes it in, not just for our sake, but for Sakurai's sake too, right? Sakurai's recent comments about working on Joker are pretty interesting, especially this part: "I personally hold Persona 5 in high regard, and I think it’s exciting to be able to work on it closely like this". It's really uplifting to see Sakurai being passionate about working on something he likes. So wouldn't it also be great for him if he able to finally include a certain star boy who he is fond of and was already considered for Smash in the past?

It'd be wonderful. No doubt.

 

[Datboigeno]

I can't be the only one who is hoping Geno makes it in, not just for our sake, but for Sakurai's sake too, right? Sakurai's recent comments about working on Joker are pretty interesting, especially this part: "I personally hold Persona 5 in high regard, and I think it’s exciting to be able to work on it closely like this". It's really uplifting to see Sakurai being passionate about working on something he likes. So wouldn't it also be great for him if he able to finally include a certain star boy who he is fond of and was already considered for Smash in the past?

It’s honestly statements like this that make me skeptical of Erdrick. He wouldn’t be a character that is really different and unique from previous SSBU characters as Reggie indicated DLC would be and he doesn’t seem like someone Sakurai would be thrilled to develop into a character considering how not unique he is when compared to all the other sword fighters in the roster.

 

[Ze Diglett]

It’s honestly statements like this that make me skeptical of Erdrick. He wouldn’t be a character that is really different and unique from previous SSBU characters as Reggie indicated DLC would be and he doesn’t seem like someone Sakurai would be thrilled to develop into a character considering how not unique he is when compared to all the other sword fighters in the roster.

Now that I think about it, Erdrick would be a great Mii Costume. :thinking:

 

[Tetrin]

It’s honestly statements like this that make me skeptical of Erdrick. He wouldn’t be a character that is really different and unique from previous SSBU characters as Reggie indicated DLC would be and he doesn’t seem like someone Sakurai would be thrilled to develop into a character considering how not unique he is when compared to all the other sword fighters in the roster.

The thing is, Sakurai loves DQ, so Erdrick would probably motivate him.

 

[bardbowman]

Heya folks,

Just a friendly reminder that we’re all theorycrafting at this point. Sometimes we’ve got leaks to guide us, but usually we’re relying on trends, patterns, official statements, etc. We’re all looking at the same evidence here, but we’re not always gonna reach the same conclusion.

So if a fellow Geno fan thinks spirits deconfirm, or that he’s simply not gonna be DLC, then by all means disagree if you think the evidence points another direction. But also respect the conclusion the other guy reaches. We’re all on the same team here. A Geno fan down on his chances isn’t trying to attack Geno.

What unites us as a fanbase is our love for Geno, not our belief that he’ll get in Smash.

Also, getting different perspectives helps us refine our individual theories. It’s part of what makes theorycrafting fun.

 

[MondoMega]

The thing is, Sakurai loves DQ, so Erdrick would probably motivate him.

Has Sakurai actually ever publicly talked about/mentioned Dragon Quest (outside of briefly mentioning Yosuke Saito when listing game designers born in 1970)? I've been looking for Famitsu columns and interviews mentioning it, but I haven't found any.

 

[Deleted member]

The thing is, Sakurai loves DQ, so Erdrick would probably motivate him.

But he hasn't given him anywhere near the recognition he gave Geno. If Sakurai stated that he likes Geno and wants to make him a character versus loving DQ, which option would he go for? Exactly.

Plus, I think he would go for Slime if getting a DQ character. Sure, he could make Eddy a unique character, but Slime would bring a more unique play style to the roster

 

[ForsakenM]

I think I'd be fine with your post if you didn't pose your argument like you're so in tune with what's going on. Like you're the very embodiment of realistic choices-- the grand arbiter of what will and won't happen. You made "all possible options and scenarios" and "dream paradise" very much a black and white, but who's to say they can't coexist? Do you know just how many people's days were made finding out Joker was revealed? In any case, try to sound a little more down-to Earth when you speak; after all, you're in the same, oblivious boat as the rest of us.

Wait, what? I'm not an arbiter of anything, where do you come of getting that vibe? There are perhaps 3-4 other persons active in this subforum who focus bringing up the points that show why it's highly unlikely Geno will ever make it while nearly everyone else here is holding on to the smaller shreds in the hopes that he will make it. I was in fact one of them, but that was for the base roster when he had his biggest chance, now his chances have dropped heavily.

I was one of those back in the first 150-so pages that hopped in and lined up all those things you just posted about: the Mii Costume, the individual reveal of it, the SMRPG music, that it was revealed twice, the NoA tweet, that Sakurai loves him and knows we still want him, that this Smash was seemingly catering to oldschool demands. I was still even debating against the Character Variations Theory and the Spin-Off Theory (just in case you don't know, the theories that the playable fighters in Smash are either spin-off timeline variants of themselves and thus Spirits can still be playable via DLC, or the theory that the playable fighters ARE the original timeline characters and that any Spirits who are the original character have no chance at DLC) until roughly mid-November when I stopped fighting against my usual instincts of putting evidence and logic over how I feel about something.

My feelings are that I want Geno more than anything else, but recent proof is mounting against him more than you might think. That tweet doesn't hint at anything more than NoA publicly acknowledged SMRPG. Sure, it was a really weird time to do so, but it didn't point to anything in particular: we just hoped it did. This meme points this out amazingly.

Spoiler

The Mii Costume is a sign of fan outcry and demand getting some success, I completely understand this, but it's also easily a symbol of 'This is all our particular fanbase could achieve. This was the best that could be done.' when you apply the facts of Square business practice and us seemingly having a third failed attempt on our hands. Hell, Ridley, K. Rool and Simon are proof of what a fanbase can do when they stay active, but not every fanbase has the same issues to deal with to get what they want.

So no, I am not an arbiter or prophet that sees the future and has say overall, but I also see very little people thinking realistically about these things and using the information we have to put a light on the subject that is more likely to shine true. I guess this is the point where I have to once again say that I want Geno to make it into the roster.

Ridley meant nothing to me.
K. Rool is fun to play, but meant nothing to me.
Incineroar is my favorite newcomer, but he means nothing to me.
Joker means nothing to me.
No single newcomer means anything to me as a fan.

Geno is the only one I want. Thus, I understand WHY you guys spin the information in a positive light so often, but I think you should also be more accepting of the opposite side as well (Damn, can you tell I've been catching up on Kingdom Hearts?).

Imagine spending so much time writing literal essays and namedropping people who never interact with you on a super smash bros forum

Imagine thinking people would actually read all of this

Well clearly some have read a good chunk of it at least and agree with that they have read. Just because you have problems digesting it or a lack of care to do so doesn't mean others do not.

Also, you have interacted with me before, though very little...and you kinda just did now. I did it just to take the piss outta you and get a rise because I've seen your typical posting style and jabbed you about it already, this time I was just mocking it.

Thanks for the response, and for future reference, if I tag you in a post it's likely because you made material that I consider worth acknowledging you for and giving you the opportunity to witness that acknowledgement...or I'm making some form of joke out of how kneejerk and hyperaggressive you tend to respond to people in a manner to make yourself look cool. Take a guess on which I'll be doing for you.

Hey, I was just reminding people that it was held off for that reason, and you go ahead and give me an entire freaking essay about spirits and datamining, etc, etc.

Also, did you even READ my post? It was held off because it was STILL IN DEVELOPMENT. And you're questioning why base game spirits weren't held off but a DLC character's was.

All I'm doing now is waiting for this whole "Do spirits deconfirm or not" discussion to end via an official statement from Sakurai, that's all.

I can't wait to get another essay as a response

I'll repeat myself: it doesn't matter WHY it was held off, only that it was. Spirits are easily the easiest thing to design in the game, so they could very easily have made a Piranha Plant Main/Support Spirit and put it into the base game before PP was ready as a character, as there is no harm or foul doing thing since there are multiple variations of PP they could choose and still have one for PP's Fighter Spirit to release with him, and if Spirits DON'T deconfirm then they would have even LESS of a reason not to launch one. My point is that...they didn't do that.

Same goes for Joker. They could have easily picked a character from any Persona game and made them a Spirit and it wouldn't have lead anyone to hype up Joker and his reveal would still have blown minds...but they didn't. This is why I personally think that Geno's chances are so low even Flo-Rida can't believe how far down they have fallen.

Also, Sakurai will likely never straight say that Spirits don't deconfirm, embargo and all that jazz. It's more likely that the next reveal will tell all: if it's a fighter that is a Spirit, then I'm happily wrong and Geno's chances go up a bit; if not, then I'm unfortunately right and we can get an idea of where to take speculation from there, and even after one bonus DLC character and two reveals people will STILL say 'we don't know if Spirits deconfirm yet' so the argument probably won't die until the last reveal.

Lastly, if you have a problem with the way I type or respond to things, I suppose that's fine and all, but do you have to act like that about it? Is it not possible to be civilized between Geno fans? I'm bad at summary: I love pointing out and mentioning details in just about everything and even in face-to-face discussion I often can't tell a story without telling the whole story from the beginning and mentioning finer details that are not required while getting lost on a tangent or two unless I'm pissed and really don't want to talk about it.

I get that my style of typing might not be up your alley, but I'm not going to change how I type things just because you are so self-centered and lazy you can't commit to reading someone else's point of view. Probably explains why you didn't understand why I said it doesn't matter since you were likely too lazy to read and dwell on why I would think or say that. Regardless, it's no reason to be arrogant or insulting.

EDIT: Messed up a quote somehow.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I have a feeling that a lot of these characters are gonna be biased towards Sakurai in a way. I don't think he'd pick a character that he doesn't like/wouldn't translate well into movesets. Which is why I doubt Steve and Porky.

I'm honestly praying that Sakurai still wants Ninten in as he was considered in Brawl but didn't get super far in development obviously.

 

[ForsakenM]

I have a feeling that a lot of these characters are gonna be biased towards Sakurai in a way. I don't think he'd pick a character that he doesn't like/wouldn't translate well into movesets. Which is why I doubt Steve and Porky.

I'm honestly praying that Sakurai still wants Ninten in as he was considered in Brawl but didn't get super far in development obviously.

Wait, doesn't Sakurai like Minecraft? Also I could only hope for this to be true so that Geno would actually have a chance.

I'm not a Mother/Earthbound guy just yet, but I hope Ninten does make it. To help me understand better, how could he differ from Ness?

 

[The Anigriffin]

Wait, doesn't Sakurai like Minecraft? Also I could only hope for this to be true so that Geno would actually have a chance.

I'm not a Mother/Earthbound guy just yet, but I hope Ninten does make it. To help me understand better, how could he differ from Ness?

No he likes Minecraft, I'm just unsure if Sakurai would think he'd translate into a character well is all.

As for Ninten, there's a whole bunch of support moves from Mother 1 he could use as well as Slngshots and Boomerangs. He'd basically be like how Robin is to the other FE characters. Has some similarities, but is distinct enough to stand alone. I have a moveset I made for him lying around somewhere...

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, what? I'm not an arbiter of anything, where do you come of getting that vibe? There are perhaps 3-4 other persons active in this subforum who focus bringing up the points that show why it's highly unlikely Geno will ever make it while nearly everyone else here is holding on to the smaller shreds in the hopes that he will make it. I was in fact one of them, but that was for the base roster when he had his biggest chance, now his chances have dropped heavily.

I was one of those back in the first 150-so pages that hopped in and lined up all those things you just posted about: the Mii Costume, the individual reveal of it, the SMRPG music, that it was revealed twice, the NoA tweet, that Sakurai loves him and knows we still want him, that this Smash was seemingly catering to oldschool demands. I was still even debating against the Character Variations Theory and the Spin-Off Theory (just in case you don't know, the theories that the playable fighters in Smash are either spin-off timeline variants of themselves and thus Spirits can still be playable via DLC, or the theory that the playable fighters ARE the original timeline characters and that any Spirits who are the original character have no chance at DLC) until roughly mid-November when I stopped fighting against my usual instincts of putting evidence and logic over how I feel about something.

My feelings are that I want Geno more than anything else, but recent proof is mounting against him more than you might think. That tweet doesn't hint at anything more than NoA publicly acknowledged SMRPG. Sure, it was a really weird time to do so, but it didn't point to anything in particular: we just hoped it did. This meme points this out amazingly.

Spoiler

The Mii Costume is a sign of fan outcry and demand getting some success, I completely understand this, but it's also easily a symbol of 'This is all our particular fanbase could achieve. This was the best that could be done.' when you apply the facts of Square business practice and us seemingly having a third failed attempt on our hands. Hell, Ridley, K. Rool and Simon are proof of what a fanbase can do when they stay active, but not every fanbase has the same issues to deal with to get what they want.

So no, I am not an arbiter or prophet that sees the future and has say overall, but I also see very little people thinking realistically about these things and using the information we have to put a light on the subject that is more likely to shine true. I guess this is the point where I have to once again say that I want Geno to make it into the roster.

Ridley meant nothing to me.
K. Rool is fun to play, but meant nothing to me.
Incineroar is my favorite newcomer, but he means nothing to me.
Joker means nothing to me.
No single newcomer means anything to me as a fan.

Geno is the only one I want. Thus, I understand WHY you guys spin the information in a positive light so often, but I think you should also be more accepting of the opposite side as well (Damn, can you tell I've been catching up on Kingdom Hearts?).



Well clearly some have read a good chunk of it at least and agree with that they have read. Just because you have problems digesting it or a lack of care to do so doesn't mean others do not.

Also, you have interacted with me before, though very little...and you kinda just did now. I did it just to take the piss outta you and get a rise because I've seen your typical posting style and jabbed you about it already, this time I was just mocking it.

Thanks for the response, and for future reference, if I tag you in a post it's likely because you made material that I consider worth acknowledging you for and giving you the opportunity to witness that acknowledgement...or I'm making some form of joke out of how kneejerk and hyperaggressive you tend to respond to people in a manner to make yourself look cool. Take a guess on which I'll be doing for you.




I'll repeat myself: it doesn't matter WHY it was held off, only that it was. Spirits are easily the easiest thing to design in the game, so they could very easily have made a Piranha Plant Main/Support Spirit and put it into the base game before PP was ready as a character, as there is no harm or foul doing thing since there are multiple variations of PP they could choose and still have one for PP's Fighter Spirit to release with him, and if Spirits DON'T deconfirm then they would have even LESS of a reason not to launch one. My point is that...they didn't do that.

Same goes for Joker. They could have easily picked a character from any Persona game and made them a Spirit and it wouldn't have lead anyone to hype up Joker and his reveal would still have blown minds...but they didn't. This is why I personally think that Geno's chances are so low even Flo-Rida can't believe how far down they have fallen.

Also, Sakurai will likely never straight say that Spirits don't deconfirm, embargo and all that jazz. It's more likely that the next reveal will tell all: if it's a fighter that is a Spirit, then I'm happily wrong and Geno's chances go up a bit; if not, then I'm unfortunately right and we can get an idea of where to take speculation from there, and even after one bonus DLC character and two reveals people will STILL say 'we don't know if Spirits deconfirm yet' so the argument probably won't die until the last reveal.

Lastly, if you have a problem with the way I type or respond to things, I suppose that's fine and all, but do you have to act like that about it? Is it not possible to be civilized between Geno fans? I'm bad at summary: I love pointing out and mentioning details in just about everything and even in face-to-face discussion I often can't tell a story without telling the whole story from the beginning and mentioning finer details that are not required while getting lost on a tangent or two unless I'm pissed and really don't want to talk about it.

I get that my style of typing might not be up your alley, but I'm not going to change how I type things just because you are so self-centered and lazy you can't commit to reading someone else's point of view. Probably explains why you didn't understand why I said it doesn't matter since you were likely too lazy to read and dwell on why I would think or say that. Regardless, it's no reason to be arrogant or insulting.

EDIT: Messed up a quote somehow.

Let's see:
- Another essay post saying "sPiRiTS DEcOnfIRm cHARaCterS."
- "iT'S nOt MY proBlEM tHat yOU Don'T lIkE mY woRDiNg."

C'mon, man

About Ninten, they can use his design from the Mother 1 Japanese commercial, which is him wearing a bandana and a white, red, and blue striped shirt. For a moveset, he can use PK beam for neutral b, throw a boomerang for his side b, 4th-D-Slip for his up b, PK Shield for his down b, and either singing the 8 melodies with Ana and Loid or using EVE for his final smash

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, what? I'm not an arbiter of anything, where do you come of getting that vibe? There are perhaps 3-4 other persons active in this subforum who focus bringing up the points that show why it's highly unlikely Geno will ever make it while nearly everyone else here is holding on to the smaller shreds in the hopes that he will make it. I was in fact one of them, but that was for the base roster when he had his biggest chance, now his chances have dropped heavily.

I was one of those back in the first 150-so pages that hopped in and lined up all those things you just posted about: the Mii Costume, the individual reveal of it, the SMRPG music, that it was revealed twice, the NoA tweet, that Sakurai loves him and knows we still want him, that this Smash was seemingly catering to oldschool demands. I was still even debating against the Character Variations Theory and the Spin-Off Theory (just in case you don't know, the theories that the playable fighters in Smash are either spin-off timeline variants of themselves and thus Spirits can still be playable via DLC, or the theory that the playable fighters ARE the original timeline characters and that any Spirits who are the original character have no chance at DLC) until roughly mid-November when I stopped fighting against my usual instincts of putting evidence and logic over how I feel about something.

My feelings are that I want Geno more than anything else, but recent proof is mounting against him more than you might think. That tweet doesn't hint at anything more than NoA publicly acknowledged SMRPG. Sure, it was a really weird time to do so, but it didn't point to anything in particular: we just hoped it did. This meme points this out amazingly.

Spoiler

The Mii Costume is a sign of fan outcry and demand getting some success, I completely understand this, but it's also easily a symbol of 'This is all our particular fanbase could achieve. This was the best that could be done.' when you apply the facts of Square business practice and us seemingly having a third failed attempt on our hands. Hell, Ridley, K. Rool and Simon are proof of what a fanbase can do when they stay active, but not every fanbase has the same issues to deal with to get what they want.

So no, I am not an arbiter or prophet that sees the future and has say overall, but I also see very little people thinking realistically about these things and using the information we have to put a light on the subject that is more likely to shine true. I guess this is the point where I have to once again say that I want Geno to make it into the roster.

Ridley meant nothing to me.
K. Rool is fun to play, but meant nothing to me.
Incineroar is my favorite newcomer, but he means nothing to me.
Joker means nothing to me.
No single newcomer means anything to me as a fan.

Geno is the only one I want. Thus, I understand WHY you guys spin the information in a positive light so often, but I think you should also be more accepting of the opposite side as well (Damn, can you tell I've been catching up on Kingdom Hearts?).



Well clearly some have read a good chunk of it at least and agree with that they have read. Just because you have problems digesting it or a lack of care to do so doesn't mean others do not.

Also, you have interacted with me before, though very little...and you kinda just did now. I did it just to take the piss outta you and get a rise because I've seen your typical posting style and jabbed you about it already, this time I was just mocking it.

Thanks for the response, and for future reference, if I tag you in a post it's likely because you made material that I consider worth acknowledging you for and giving you the opportunity to witness that acknowledgement...or I'm making some form of joke out of how kneejerk and hyperaggressive you tend to respond to people in a manner to make yourself look cool. Take a guess on which I'll be doing for you.




I'll repeat myself: it doesn't matter WHY it was held off, only that it was. Spirits are easily the easiest thing to design in the game, so they could very easily have made a Piranha Plant Main/Support Spirit and put it into the base game before PP was ready as a character, as there is no harm or foul doing thing since there are multiple variations of PP they could choose and still have one for PP's Fighter Spirit to release with him, and if Spirits DON'T deconfirm then they would have even LESS of a reason not to launch one. My point is that...they didn't do that.

Same goes for Joker. They could have easily picked a character from any Persona game and made them a Spirit and it wouldn't have lead anyone to hype up Joker and his reveal would still have blown minds...but they didn't. This is why I personally think that Geno's chances are so low even Flo-Rida can't believe how far down they have fallen.

Also, Sakurai will likely never straight say that Spirits don't deconfirm, embargo and all that jazz. It's more likely that the next reveal will tell all: if it's a fighter that is a Spirit, then I'm happily wrong and Geno's chances go up a bit; if not, then I'm unfortunately right and we can get an idea of where to take speculation from there, and even after one bonus DLC character and two reveals people will STILL say 'we don't know if Spirits deconfirm yet' so the argument probably won't die until the last reveal.

Lastly, if you have a problem with the way I type or respond to things, I suppose that's fine and all, but do you have to act like that about it? Is it not possible to be civilized between Geno fans? I'm bad at summary: I love pointing out and mentioning details in just about everything and even in face-to-face discussion I often can't tell a story without telling the whole story from the beginning and mentioning finer details that are not required while getting lost on a tangent or two unless I'm pissed and really don't want to talk about it.

I get that my style of typing might not be up your alley, but I'm not going to change how I type things just because you are so self-centered and lazy you can't commit to reading someone else's point of view. Probably explains why you didn't understand why I said it doesn't matter since you were likely too lazy to read and dwell on why I would think or say that. Regardless, it's no reason to be arrogant or insulting.

EDIT: Messed up a quote somehow.

Just as I expected. Another essay.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I can't be the only one who is hoping Geno makes it in, not just for our sake, but for Sakurai's sake too, right? Sakurai's recent comments about working on Joker are pretty interesting, especially this part: "I personally hold Persona 5 in high regard, and I think it’s exciting to be able to work on it closely like this". It's really uplifting to see Sakurai being passionate about working on something he likes. So wouldn't it also be great for him if he able to finally include a certain star boy who he is fond of and was already considered for Smash in the past?

Not to mention how he'd feel after working his ass off for over 10 years to get him? Honestly, if I was Sakurai and was able to get Geno into the game as a playable character, I'd be fanboying my ass off and giving him such an incredible design/render after 22 years. Third-parties are treated like guests, and if he got Geno, he'd be respecting the hell out of Geno by giving him such a unique moveset, taunts, SMRPG references, and an amazing design. Sakurai expressed that he has a passion for Persona 5, but let's not forget that he also shows respect to third-parties in almost every shape and form.
This right here is just an example:

One of Simon's victory poses is a reference to the victory scene after you beat a boss in Castlevania (NES). After you defeat a boss and collect the magic crystal (the red ball), the victory theme plays and you can't move except you can only jump in the air and crack your whip, and a lot of us did that. It's such a beautiful and respectful reference to have that as Simon's victory pose, and I think it's one of the most unique ways to respect a third-party franchise in a game. Props to Sakurai for it!

This is why it's hard for me to choose between Simon and Richter; I like Richter more than Simon, but Simon's taunts and victory poses are more badass.

 

[Tetrin]

Wait, what? I'm not an arbiter of anything, where do you come of getting that vibe? There are perhaps 3-4 other persons active in this subforum who focus bringing up the points that show why it's highly unlikely Geno will ever make it while nearly everyone else here is holding on to the smaller shreds in the hopes that he will make it. I was in fact one of them, but that was for the base roster when he had his biggest chance, now his chances have dropped heavily.

I was one of those back in the first 150-so pages that hopped in and lined up all those things you just posted about: the Mii Costume, the individual reveal of it, the SMRPG music, that it was revealed twice, the NoA tweet, that Sakurai loves him and knows we still want him, that this Smash was seemingly catering to oldschool demands. I was still even debating against the Character Variations Theory and the Spin-Off Theory (just in case you don't know, the theories that the playable fighters in Smash are either spin-off timeline variants of themselves and thus Spirits can still be playable via DLC, or the theory that the playable fighters ARE the original timeline characters and that any Spirits who are the original character have no chance at DLC) until roughly mid-November when I stopped fighting against my usual instincts of putting evidence and logic over how I feel about something.

My feelings are that I want Geno more than anything else, but recent proof is mounting against him more than you might think. That tweet doesn't hint at anything more than NoA publicly acknowledged SMRPG. Sure, it was a really weird time to do so, but it didn't point to anything in particular: we just hoped it did. This meme points this out amazingly.

Spoiler

The Mii Costume is a sign of fan outcry and demand getting some success, I completely understand this, but it's also easily a symbol of 'This is all our particular fanbase could achieve. This was the best that could be done.' when you apply the facts of Square business practice and us seemingly having a third failed attempt on our hands. Hell, Ridley, K. Rool and Simon are proof of what a fanbase can do when they stay active, but not every fanbase has the same issues to deal with to get what they want.

So no, I am not an arbiter or prophet that sees the future and has say overall, but I also see very little people thinking realistically about these things and using the information we have to put a light on the subject that is more likely to shine true. I guess this is the point where I have to once again say that I want Geno to make it into the roster.

Ridley meant nothing to me.
K. Rool is fun to play, but meant nothing to me.
Incineroar is my favorite newcomer, but he means nothing to me.
Joker means nothing to me.
No single newcomer means anything to me as a fan.

Geno is the only one I want. Thus, I understand WHY you guys spin the information in a positive light so often, but I think you should also be more accepting of the opposite side as well (Damn, can you tell I've been catching up on Kingdom Hearts?).

Yeah, I did go a bit overboard on that, sorry.

I actually am pretty accepting of the other side. I'm not exactly spinning the information in a positive light, either. I never said this information supports Geno (in particular, the tweet), I said it proves he's not forgotten. I do feel as though spirits are probably a consolation prize, but they could very well not be. This isn't in favor of Geno, nor is it against him. It's too early to call. However, your logical deductions have overlooked some things.

The Mii costume could be either. It could be the most we'll ever get, or it could be a test to see how well it'd sell and see if Geno would be worth it. And the evidence against him I forgot all about, so if you could catch me up, I'd appreciate it, but as far as I'm aware, the only thing potentially against him is that he's niche and he's a spirit.

However, his niche properties may very well work to his advantage. You seem to be a fan of logic, so I think you'd agree it makes sense that the logical choice would be to include the more requested characters in the base roster. The base roster is the selling point of Smash in general, and if the base roster includes fan favorites like Ridley, Simon, and K Rool, then those incentivize people into buying the game. The DLC, however, I think will include more obscure choices. Characters like Joker are awesome, but not nearly as appealing to the casual eye, and therefore less of a selling point. That's why I feel these niche choices will be included in the DLC roster; fans of these series will be tempted to get both the game AND the DLC.

Obviously Geno is far more exclusive than Joker, but we're talking Smash here, so he's a celebrity among fan requests. He would undoubtedly generate profit for Nintendo, and I'm sure Square wouldn't have a problem. With the way Square handles business, Erdrick would seem most likely, but bear in mind that these choices are Nintendo picks, so what makes Square the most money isn't exactly Nintendo's top priority (I do think Erdrick is the most likely Square rep, though).

In my eyes, you can't call yourself a supporter of Geno if you're willing to give up on him so quickly. It's natural to find other characters more likely, but don't lose sight of our goal just yet. The reason Geno is such a big name in the community is because we made him one; our collective resolve for a character otherwise lost in time to make a comeback has pushed him to the forefront of requests, ballots, and we even got a Mii costume because of it. The Geno fanbase has more labels to combat than many other communities: obscurity, antiquity, and presumably greed on behalf of Square. But we fight anyway, and one day, I'm sure the stars will align for the Starsend Savior, maybe sooner than we all think.

Just as I expected. Another essay.

And? He's still allowed to express his opinion on here (no matter how much I disagree with it ), let him be.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

And? He's still allowed to express his opinion on here (no matter how much I disagree with it ), let him be.

Summarization is a virtue

 

[Deleted member]

And? He's still allowed to express his opinion on here (no matter how much I disagree with it ), let him be.

Never said he wasn't allowed to. Just summarize everything without typing up so many paragraphs.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Let's see:
- Another essay post saying "sPiRiTS DEcOnfIRm cHARaCterS."
- "iT'S nOt MY proBlEM tHat yOU Don'T lIkE mY woRDiNg."

C'mon, man

>using le funnie chicken spongebob meme text in current year

Can we not eat each other over how we choose to present our arguments, please? This place is becoming way more hostile to differing perspectives than I'd like it to be. Some of us I think have definitely stayed in the echo chamber a tad too long, no offense.

 

[Deleted member]

>using the chicken spongebob meme text in current year

Can we not eat each other over how long our posts are, please? This place is becoming way more hostile to differing perspectives than I'd like it to be. Some of us I think have definitely stayed in the echo chamber a tad too long, no offense.

Never said he wasn't allowed to. Just summarize everything without typing up so many paragraphs.

@Maxie summs up what we are referring to when we mention the essay posts

 

[Tetrin]

Summarization is a virtue

Never said he wasn't allowed to. Just summarize everything without typing up so many paragraphs.

In this case, his argument was more clearly conveyed in paragraph form. Being able to elaborate is much more useful than a summary, and having an intricate web of arguments can help solve the root of the problem to create stronger and more developed points.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Personally speaking, I don’t think Spirits disconfirm in theory. I’m not an idiot, I know Sakurai will make what he wants, and if what he wants is a Spirit then who cares (same with ATs tho).

But I’m also 100% confident we won’t see any Spirit upgraded to playable. That’s just not the direction DLC is taking.

Also lmao at all the passive aggressive insult slinging. Some people are all ‘I’m all for positive discussion!’ and then like backhanded posts. For shame.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, I'm done talking about essays and stuff. Knew I shouldn't have posted that.

I'm just going to go to sleep. Sorry about all this, I'm the one to blame here. Once again, I let my hotheadedness get the better of me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Could we please actually respond to the user's argument instead of making comments on their debating style? What you call an essay is actually just saying things properly. The length of the post isn't as important as the quality of it. I have yet to see an issue here. They aren't causing trouble and actually just having a differing and reasonable opinion.

If you aren't willing to respond to the argument, then you shouldn't be talking about the poster either. It's about respect. Making unfair comments towards another person isn't respectful. Either reply or don't. Colorful commentary doesn't make your side look good either.

I see one has apologized for it. But I'm keeping this up as a reminder.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, I'm done talking about essays and stuff. Knew I shouldn't have posted that.

I'm just going to go to sleep. Sorry about all this, I'm the one to blame here. Once again, I let my hotheadedness get the better of me.

I will take a break as well.

Hope you all have a good night. Sorry for angering anyone.

 

[Tetrin]

Same here. Apologies for being overly intense and good night to all