Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Robertroid]

Merry christmas everyone!
...ah...late as always "orz

 

[TerminalMontage]

Yeah Merry Christmas guys (:

 

[valkiriforce]

Well, it certainly didn't take long before I snatched up a copy of Smash Ultimate, lol. I decided to go through a bunch of games and trade a stack of the ones I hardly ever play for some in-store credit + $10 gift card and then some to be able to afford it. Now I'm finally in the game and it's crazy I managed to pull it off. Lately I've been adjusting to using the standard controller the Switch comes with since I'm still so used to the GameCube controller when it comes to Smash. Also registered for Piranha Plant lol. Now we wait for the rest of the characters to be revealed...

 

[alemerltoucanet]

While not Geno related... I finally got a Switch!!! I'm so happy y'all!! :D

 

[Deleted member]

While not Geno related... I finally got a Switch!!! I'm so happy y'all!! :D

Congrats!

Sorry if I'm a late (it's already Boxing Day in my timezone), but Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[ZelDan]

Whelp, I got the Geno spirit I WoL. Was having difficulty at first, but then switched to DK and won the second time (only lost the first time with DK due to an incorrect button press that resulted in an SD).

Guess DK got his revenge after getting chained up and beaten by the SMRPG crew countless times.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I am sorry for being so late, but it's still the 25th for me! ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS...

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Merry belated Christmas, guys! I was super busy yesterday, so I didn't get a chance to stop in here. Hope you all had a wonderful holiday!

Funnily enough, I received this as a gift:

I'm kind of a pin nut.

I never bought Cloud Bayo or Corrin out of sheer apathy to their inclusion. Cloud I wasn't mad about, but I had to make a statement about the other two. I don't think I bought anything from that DLC pack other than the Geno costume actually.

Oh, and about this: I also didn't buy Bayo or Corrin, and did buy the Geno costume (I did buy Cloud also, though.) So not EVERY Smash fan just buys all the DLC, for what it's worth. I was very particular. I knew right away I wasn't interested in Corrin and Bayo, just on moveset alone--I was right too, as I still have yet to play either in Ultimate, lol.

For the record, I will definitely be buying Joker, and getting PP. Those are interesting (prospective) movesets, despite my lack of attachment to either as characters.

Edit: and obviously, I don't have to say Geno's moveset would be glorious.

 

[domriver]

Merry Christmas my Geno members!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Not sure if you guys saw this, but…

https://nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-super-smash-bros-ultimate-interview/2/

In here it says that the spirits were selected by a separate team. It's pretty telling that they managed to pick two SMRPG characters, when SE otherwise doesn't have much in here.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Not sure if you guys saw this, but…

https://nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-super-smash-bros-ultimate-interview/2/

In here it says that the spirits were selected by a separate team. It's pretty telling that they managed to pick two SMRPG characters, when SE otherwise doesn't have much in here.

"Were there ever times where you pointed out a character and said something like “if we’re going to include this series, we can’t not include this character”?

Sakurai: There were times where that happened, sure."
Nani

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

"Were there ever times where you pointed out a character and said something like “if we’re going to include this series, we can’t not include this character”?

Sakurai: There were times where that happened, sure."
Nani

The double-negative here means that "We gotta HAVE this character!", I think.

 

[DaxMasterix]

The double-negative here means that "We gotta HAVE this character!", I think.

Thanks for the clarification <3, Ingles es muy dificil para mi

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, a couple of things stick out to me in this article.

1) Sakurai says some these spirits were must-have characters to be represented. This could be good or bad for Geno, depending on if spirits deconfirm or not, for Sakurai may have determined Geno as a 'must-have'. That being said...

2) He mentions spirits in the same breath as Mii costumes and assist trophies. It might not mean much and it could be just the same as trophy representation, especially considering the glut of spirits in the game, but that's another point to the 'spirits deconfirm' argument.

Can't really say any of that looks very good for Geno's chances, at least not for the first fighter's pass.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In any case, it boggles my mind that they went with Kid as the designated Mario Golf character to have as a spirit instead of Plum. Why not her? She had a trophy in Melee and even a sticker in Brawl...

Far from the only weird omission, since there are plenty, but still.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Honestly, a couple of things stick out to me in this article.

1) Sakurai says some these spirits were must-have characters to be represented. This could be good or bad for Geno, depending on if spirits deconfirm or not, for Sakurai may have determined Geno as a 'must-have'. That being said...

2) He mentions spirits in the same breath as Mii costumes and assist trophies. It might not mean much and it could be just the same as trophy representation, especially considering the glut of spirits in the game, but that's another point to the 'spirits deconfirm' argument.

Can't really say any of that looks very good for Geno's chances, at least not for the first fighter's pass.

Finally got to play Smash and honestly since you get Fighter Spirits for beating classic mode...

Yeah they're just trophies/event match together nothing more nothing less. The only deconfirmed characters are the ones that will never be DLC. Sakurai is the only one that "deconfirms" characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai might just say spirit characters are a must have to be represented because he trusts the team who made the spirits. Again, Sakurai wasn't the one who decided the spirits. Do you really consider Hal Emerick, Kid, or any of the other not-at-all requested characters must haves? Doesn't mean Geno isn't, but character inclusions being must haves isn't a reason spirits were created.

Tbh the only thing this clarifies is, once again, that Sakurai wasn't the one who chose the spirits.

Going to remind everyone again about the "until now" situation from Brawl. If anything is said that could change your view on the spirits, just remember that case of incorrect wording

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai might just say spirits characters are a must have to be represented because he trusts the team who made the spirits. Again, Sakurai wasn't the one who decided the spirits. Do you really consider Hal Emerick, Kid, or any of the other not-at-all requested characters must haves? Doesn't mean Geno isn't, but character inclusions being must haves isn't a reason spirits were created.

Tbh the only thing this clarifies is, once again, that Sakurai wasn't the one who chose the spirits.

Going to remind everyone again about the "until now" situation from Brawl. If anything is said that could change your view on the spirits, just remember that case of incorrect wording

Yes.

Show of hands, does anyone seriously expect Yakuman or the chef from Personal Trainer: Cooking to be considered as playable? It's obvious that not every trophy/sticker/spirit/collectible is going to be a viable character.

The main thing here is showcasing Nintendo and gaming history in a way besides fighters, stages and music. Whether the characters shown via collectibles are considered to be playable or not is purely incidental.

 

[shocktarts17]

Finally got to play Smash and honestly since you get Fighter Spirits for beating classic mode...

Yeah they're just trophies/event match together nothing more nothing less. The only deconfirmed characters are the ones that will never be DLC. Sakurai is the only one that "deconfirms" characters.

I mean he did straight up say that spirits are a way to add characters who aren't fighters, so that's kind of a deconfirmation right there. No need to add them as a spirit when you are planning to add them as a fighter if you see spirits as a way to get non-fighters in.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I mean he did straight up say that spirits are a way to add characters who aren't fighters, so that's kind of a deconfirmation right there. No need to add them as a spirit when you are planning to add them as a fighter if you see spirits as a way to get non-fighters in.

Mewtwo and Lucas from Smash 4. Mewtwo was under development before the game launched and there was still a Mewtwo Trophy in game.

Dang, I guess Pit and Link aren’t fighters then due to the spirit battles involving them... I’m pretty sure it’s just to make sure that each important character is represented just in case they can’t be DLC.

Also remember “until now” and “not fit for fighting” and “too big.”

 

[shocktarts17]

Mewtwo and Lucas from Smash 4. Mewtwo was under development before the game launched and there was still a Mewtwo Trophy in game.

Dang, I guess Pit and Link aren’t fighters then due to the spirit battles involving them... I’m pretty sure it’s just to make sure that each important character is represented just in case they can’t be DLC.

Also remember “until now” and “not fit for fighting” and “too big.”

I mean the Pit and the Links that are spirits aren't fighters.

 

[ForsakenM]

So one other point that I wanted to point out before in my list of reasons I think Geno has less of a chance is that he didn't make the base roster. Ridley made it, K. Rool made it, but not Geno or any other big character from back in the Melee/Brawl days.

Now you may argue that '3rd parties are more difficult to deal with and are more likely for DLC' and while this is true for certain companies, I give you all the 3rd party that made it into the base roster: , , , , , , . Sure, there is reasoning behind all of them, but remember that the reasoning Sakurai gave for Simon is that he 'placed high in the Ballot.' As we know from mock polls going on during that time, there is no chance that Simon placed extremely high in the polls and whether or not was actually a winner or previously planned and had lots of votes so they picked her is irrelevant here because we saw the K. Rool campaigns and we know who was likely in the top ten, yet only Simon is mentioned as being a Ballot pick? This leads me to believe that it wasn't just the ballot placing but also company negotiations, and we know that Konami loves to play game with Sakurai when it comes to Smash.

While this would seemingly lead towards Geno being potential DLC, this added in with my previous points really makes it seem like Geno's chances are slim to none and we will have to be happy with our Spirit.

I was gonna post all this on Christmas Day but I decided to just relax and do much of nothing, and low and behold the man, the myth, the legend who should REALLY get a Golden Sun-themed intro for his videos...@Billybae10K drops his next Rate Their Chances vid and tackles both BWD and Geno. I'll link it here, but honestly it's just more of what I had said, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who is paying attention to the overwhelming signs of Geno's chances falling off dramatically. My only issue with Billybae10K is that he keeps addressing Sora as a 'Square Rep' when it's been proven time and again that he's a Disney Rep. Sure, they have to get Nomura's blessing, but Sakurai and Nomura are buds so that's not very difficult. It's just like a Trademark, essentially: Disney didn't make him, but they 100% own him and everything Kingdom Hearts.

------------------------------------------------------------

Now comes the part where I will address counter points, because I feel it's rude to just ignore points people make against your arguments, as well as it making you a weak debater. This first one is more of a snarky response though....

Not sure if you guys saw this, but…

https://nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-super-smash-bros-ultimate-interview/2/

In here it says that the spirits were selected by a separate team. It's pretty telling that they managed to pick two SMRPG characters, when SE otherwise doesn't have much in here.

Different group working on Spirits =/= Character not deconfirmed by their existence as Spirits. This is a moot point. It's not like Sakurai would suddenly burst in and say 'Hey, don't make this one a Spirit because they are gonna be DLC' because it honestly wouldn't really matter all that much, especially if Spirits truly don't deconfirm and it's not like he had no idea about what they were doing. Thus, this point could work both for or against Geno and any other character that fans want playable but are in the game as a Spirit (like Rayman or Shantae). Also other interviews have proven that he did have involvement in some choices when it came to Spirits.

Hmm, it's almost like I address this already...I'm just teasing, but I was referring to this interview when I mentioned Sakurai did have some involvement with Spirits. I guess I'm more to blame for not including a link, but the interview had been out for a while so I assumed everyone knew what I was referring to.

Honestly these are all excellent points.

However, characters like Bomberman and Shantae also show up in Spirits Mode and have respective Spirit Battles. Bomberman is still represented in game as an assist trophy. Also, Claus is a base Legendary Spirit (haven’t encountered him yet in WoL tbh) and he has an alt skin through Lucas. Ness’ Dad, Akuma, and Hinawa are also base legendary spirits. As is Wario-Man (who is in game as Wario’s special)

My point is that, there are also factors that make the “Spirits deconfirm” argument kind of an assumption at this point. Correct, no spirit has EXPLICITLY made it has a fighter, but at the same time, the fighters all have “different forms” that appear as spirits. And your point about Geno not being an incarnation is mostly because there is currently only ONE incarnation of the character. It would literally be impossible to try to say “Geno (Original)” like they did with Pit without hinting at something. Or people taking it as hinting at something. And additionally I actually find it incredibly strange they used Shiek and not the Mii Costume or Mega Man as the reference to Geno. Shiek has pellets that are more bullet like, but she comes at you off the bat with a ray gun. Which is...kind of inaccurate? Lmao

This is points towards Geno being just a Spirit if you ask me: Mario has incarnations like Gold Mario and Metal Mario and Cat Mario, etc etc. These are all separate variations of Mario, and if you believe the theory that all the Smash variations of our favorite characters are not the versions from their original series but more like spin-off versions like in the countless Sports games, then this helps Geno because there is only one version of Geno, thus the Smash playable Geno would be a different Geno. If you don't believe it and believe that the Smash fighters are the original characters, then Geno has no chance.

Most of the Spirit battles have the same amount of carefully crafted references in them. Geno’s is pretty detailed in that you have to fight the whole party as opposed to just Geno, but that could also be argued as a creative choice. But every spirit match I’ve fought has been incredilbly detailed actually in terms of references. Buzz Buzz dying in one hit. Snake being invisible in Ness Dad fight, etc.

Sure, but not all Spirit Battles are equal in terms of effort put behind them. Some are cute, some are '...yeah, I guess I can see it', and some are 'Wow, they really put some effort into this one!' I feel like most of the Legendary Spirits probably fall under that last one, and Geno is no exception.

Also let’s not forget the lack of FF Spirits. Of course we have two for Cloud as fighter spirits, but none really outside of that. So FF is IN smash and barely has spirits, why would there be Persona spirits? Geno is at least part of the Mario franchise so that makes sense. Why put Persona spirits in, unless you’re hinting at a Persona character? Especially if it’s 3rd party?

Uhh...Square Enix =/= Atlus or Sega? Just because Square only lets Sakurai have two versions of Cloud for Spirits doesn't mean EVERY company will be like that. Also there already are 3rd party Spirits for characters that likely will never make it, like the Rabbids and Sonic characters, and none of those seem to be hinting at anyone. In fact, if we had datamined a Persona Spirit before the Joker reveal, we would barely be having this discussion, not at all if that Spirit was Joker.

I think your point about Spirits being there cuz some characters could never be playable is more of an assumption. Ridley was purported to NEVER be playable and yet, here we are.

Ridley and King K. Rool are both first party, so they both had less hurdles to jump to get into Smash. Also, before someone brings up Simon and Richter, I will again mention Konami plays nicer with their IPs and characters for Smash than Square ever will in their lifetime as a company.

He mentions spirits in the same breath as Mii costumes and assist trophies. It might not mean much and it could be just the same as trophy representation, especially considering the glut of spirits in the game, but that's another point to the 'spirits deconfirm' argument.

Can't really say any of that looks very good for Geno's chances, at least not for the first fighter's pass.

Woof, I never noticed that my first read-through, but he does kinda lump them all together, doesn't he?

Finally got to play Smash and honestly since you get Fighter Spirits for beating classic mode...

Yeah they're just trophies/event match together nothing more nothing less. The only deconfirmed characters are the ones that will never be DLC. Sakurai is the only one that "deconfirms" characters.

This is slightly misleading: Fighter Spirits are nothing but trophies/stickers and literally do nothing, but you can also win functional Spirits through Classic Mode as well. Just because a playable fighter has a Spirit that does nothing doesn't mean that Spirits that do something don't deconfirm characters.

With all this addressed, I would like to point out three interesting things I have found.

1. Geno and Mallow are listed as Mario Spirits, not falling under the category 'Other' despite being Square characters. I get that they are essentially Mario characters to us, but the fact that Nintendo considers them Mario characters too is interesting to say the least...either that or anyone who breathes Mario's air is considered a Mario character.

2. Petey Piranha is a Spirit, twice: he upgrades from Nipper Plant and also has a Super Strikers Spirit, and we all know he is part of Piranha Plant's FS. Of course this checks out with the Super Sonic Spirit as well, I just thought this was an interesting tidbit.

3. Possibly the most important, we must remember that for the DLC characters we have seen so far, they have at least no Spirits of themselves (Piranha Plant) and at most no Spirits from their entire franchise (Joker). Of course things can change, but if the next character reveal either doesn't have a Spirit of themselves OR a Spirit from their franchise at all, I can confidently say we should apply the 'third time's the charm' adage and figure that is a telling sign of who is DLC and who isn't. It feels like we are once again in a state where the next reveal tells all.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I mean the Pit and the Links that are spirits aren't fighters.

That Pit is the exact Pit that you play as in Smash. Like, it’s the identical character. Wearing a different shirt doesn’t make you a whole new person.

This is slightly misleading: Fighter Spirits are nothing but trophies/stickers and literally do nothing, but you can also win functional Spirits through Classic Mode as well. Just because a playable fighter has a Spirit that does nothing doesn't mean that Spirits that do something don't deconfirm characters.

You do realize that stickers in Brawl acted just like spirits do right? By enhancing your fighter? Stickers were never useless.

But again, you can recieve spirits like Tennis Luigi which is still Luigi but just not a fighter spirit. If you personally think spirits deconfirm that’s your choice but don’t treat your theories like fact.

Sakurai does what he wants and in the end theorizing about deconfirmations when they haven’t been locked in 100% is ultimately pointless.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean the Pit and the Links that are spirits aren't fighters.

They are the same characters who are playable in the game

So one other point that I wanted to point out before in my list of reasons I think Geno has less of a chance is that he didn't make the base roster. Ridley made it, K. Rool made it, but not Geno or any other big character from back in the Melee/Brawl days.

Now you may argue that '3rd parties are more difficult to deal with and are more likely for DLC' and while this is true for certain companies, I give you all the 3rd party that made it into the base roster: , , , , , , . Sure, there is reasoning behind all of them, but remember that the reasoning Sakurai gave for Simon is that he 'placed high in the Ballot.' As we know from mock polls going on during that time, there is no chance that Simon placed extremely high in the polls and whether or not was actually a winner or previously planned and had lots of votes so they picked her is irrelevant here because we saw the K. Rool campaigns and we know who was likely in the top ten, yet only Simon is mentioned as being a Ballot pick? This leads me to believe that it wasn't just the ballot placing but also company negotiations, and we know that Konami loves to play game with Sakurai when it comes to Smash.

While this would seemingly lead towards Geno being potential DLC, this added in with my previous points really makes it seem like Geno's chances are slim to none and we will have to be happy with our Spirit.

I was gonna post all this on Christmas Day but I decided to just relax and do much of nothing, and low and behold the man, the myth, the legend who should REALLY get a Golden Sun-themed intro for his videos...@Billybae10K drops his next Rate Their Chances vid and tackles both BWD and Geno. I'll link it here, but honestly it's just more of what I had said, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who is paying attention to the overwhelming signs of Geno's chances falling off dramatically. My only issue with Billybae10K is that he keeps addressing Sora as a 'Square Rep' when it's been proven time and again that he's a Disney Rep. Sure, they have to get Nomura's blessing, but Sakurai and Nomura are buds so that's not very difficult. It's just like a Trademark, essentially: Disney didn't make him, but they 100% own him and everything Kingdom Hearts.

------------------------------------------------------------

Now comes the part where I will address counter points, because I feel it's rude to just ignore points people make against your arguments, as well as it making you a weak debater. This first one is more of a snarky response though....




Hmm, it's almost like I address this already...I'm just teasing, but I was referring to this interview when I mentioned Sakurai did have some involvement with Spirits. I guess I'm more to blame for not including a link, but the interview had been out for a while so I assumed everyone knew what I was referring to.



This is points towards Geno being just a Spirit if you ask me: Mario has incarnations like Gold Mario and Metal Mario and Cat Mario, etc etc. These are all separate variations of Mario, and if you believe the theory that all the Smash variations of our favorite characters are not the versions from their original series but more like spin-off versions like in the countless Sports games, then this helps Geno because there is only one version of Geno, thus the Smash playable Geno would be a different Geno. If you don't believe it and believe that the Smash fighters are the original characters, then Geno has no chance.



Sure, but not all Spirit Battles are equal in terms of effort put behind them. Some are cute, some are '...yeah, I guess I can see it', and some are 'Wow, they really put some effort into this one!' I feel like most of the Legendary Spirits probably fall under that last one, and Geno is no exception.



Uhh...Square Enix =/= Atlus or Sega? Just because Square only lets Sakurai have two versions of Cloud for Spirits doesn't mean EVERY company will be like that. Also there already are 3rd party Spirits for characters that likely will never make it, like the Rabbids and Sonic characters, and none of those seem to be hinting at anyone. In fact, if we had datamined a Persona Spirit before the Joker reveal, we would barely be having this discussion, not at all if that Spirit was Joker.



Ridley and King K. Rool are both first party, so they both had less hurdles to jump to get into Smash. Also, before someone brings up Simon and Richter, I will again mention Konami plays nicer with their IPs and characters for Smash than Square ever will in their lifetime as a company.



Woof, I never noticed that my first read-through, but he does kinda lump them all together, doesn't he?



This is slightly misleading: Fighter Spirits are nothing but trophies/stickers and literally do nothing, but you can also win functional Spirits through Classic Mode as well. Just because a playable fighter has a Spirit that does nothing doesn't mean that Spirits that do something don't deconfirm characters.

With all this addressed, I would like to point out three interesting things I have found.

1. Geno and Mallow are listed as Mario Spirits, not falling under the category 'Other' despite being Square characters. I get that they are essentially Mario characters to us, but the fact that Nintendo considers them Mario characters too is interesting to say the least...either that or anyone who breathes Mario's air is considered a Mario character.

2. Petey Piranha is a Spirit, twice: he upgrades from Nipper Plant and also has a Super Strikers Spirit, and we all know he is part of Piranha Plant's FS. Of course this checks out with the Super Sonic Spirit as well, I just thought this was an interesting tidbit.

3. Possibly the most important, we must remember that for the DLC characters we have seen so far, they have at least no Spirits of themselves (Piranha Plant) and at most no Spirits from their entire franchise (Joker). Of course things can change, but if the next character reveal either doesn't have a Spirit of themselves OR a Spirit from their franchise at all, I can confidently say we should apply the 'third time's the charm' adage and figure that is a telling sign of who is DLC and who isn't. It feels like we are once again in a state where the next reveal tells all.

Reminder that spirits replace trophies, and Mewtwo and Lucas were trophies in Smash 4 before they were DLC.

The DLC in Smash 4 had characters who were trophies and characters who weren't. This DLC likely won't be different, so don't jump to the conclusion that spirits deconfirm if the next DLC character doesn't have a spirit.

You really need to remember that a separate team choosing the DLC means that Sakurai didn't have plans of making that character a spirit. I am kind of getting tired of repeating this lol.

childishgamgeno was referring to your assumption of "this character will never be playable." Being third party or first party doesn't change a false assumption.

Geno has good chances and I think you are looking too deep into him being a spirit, which we have discussed plenty of points in this thread that lead to Geno not being deconfirmed

 

[Ze Diglett]

I mean the Pit and the Links that are spirits aren't fighters.

Except the equippable Pit Spirit literally is the same Pit that is already playable. Not even a different form of him, just different art of the exact same character. (Same for Link, I believe, though there might be some timeline ****ery going on to dispute that one.)
And let's not forget that there are plenty of Spirits that are just Wii Fit Trainer doing various poses. Sure, they aren't called "Wii Fit Trainer", but the fact of the matter is that you can play as Wii Fit Trainer possessed by the spirit of another Wii Fit Trainer striking a specific pose with absolutely zero conflict. Mario and Luigi have Spirits in their tennis outfits, am I expected to believe that these are distinct characters from the Mario and Luigi already playable in the roster because they put on tennis shorts? Give me a break.

 

[Datboigeno]

I mean the Pit and the Links that are spirits aren't fighters.

If you’re counting the NES version of Pit as not the same as the Pit that’s a fighter then the SMRPG version of Geno that’s a spirit could be considered different than the Geno that hypothetically could be in SSBU. Because he’d be updated from the 3D model from 1996.

 

[shocktarts17]

That Pit is the exact Pit that you play as in Smash. Like, it’s the identical character. Wearing a different shirt doesn’t make you a whole new person.

They are the same characters who are playable in the game

Except the equippable Pit Spirit literally is the exact same Pit that is already playable. Not even a different form of him, just different art of the exact same character. (Same for Link, I believe, though there might be some timeline ****ery going on to dispute that one.)

No it's Pit (original) representing his look from the classic game which looks nothing like his redesigned look. Same thing as Petey Piranha having a separate soccer spirit, its a different version than his normal version.

And the Links are 100% different in every game.

Spirits are different from trophies and DLC in this game was decided up front. Comparing Mewtwo and Lucas getting in as returning vets is 100% not the same thing as someone getting in for the first time, even if DLC was being handled the same way as Smash 4.

If you’re counting the NES version of Pit as not the same as the Pit that’s a fighter then the SMRPG version of Geno that’s a spirit could be considered different than the Geno that hypothetically could be in SSBU. Because he’d be updated from the 3D model from 1996.

But it isn't Geno (Original) its just Geno, not the same thing.

 

[Ovaltine]

Woof, I never noticed that my first read-through, but he does kinda lump them all together, doesn't he?

Precisely. Everything else is based on stuff we already know or don't know, but this in particular especially stood out to me. It could just be that he means a 'new way of representation' without it being a consolation prize, but considering assists and mii costumes are consolation prizes, it is rather concerning.

 

[Datboigeno]

No it's Pit (original) representing his look from the classic game which looks nothing like his redesigned look. Same thing as Petey Piranha having a separate soccer spirit, its a different version than his normal version.

And the Links are 100% different in every game.

Spirits are different from trophies and DLC in this game was decided up front. Comparing Mewtwo and Lucas getting in as returning vets is 100% not the same thing as someone getting in for the first time, even if DLC was being handled the same way as Smash 4.


But it isn't Geno (Original) its just Geno, not the same thing.

They’re the same characters m8. Pit is still Pit. It’s like saying 8-bit Mario is a different character from the mainline mario games which isn’t true.

I don’t see how the Link’s being different characters is relevant especially when different Links are playable as costume swaps.

That last part is just you presenting your own ideas as facts.

 

[shocktarts17]

They’re the same characters m8. Pit is still Pit. It’s like saying 8-bit Mario is a different character from the mainline mario games which isn’t true.

It's not about if they are the same character or not, its about how they are presented as spirits. Mario wearing a tennis outfit is different where spirits are concerned. Think about this instead, does the Venusaur spirit count as the same thing as the Ivysaur one? Of course not because they are different Pokemon, but Ivysaur becomes Venusaur so they're technically the same "person." Different versions of each spirit counts as its own thing and is differentiated as such [i.e. Mario (Tennis outfit)] so when a spirit is presented without that the assumption is that this is the "main" version of that character.

I don’t see how the Link’s being different characters is relevant especially when different Links are playable as costume swaps.

That'l BotW Link dressed as the other versions not a whole different version.

 

[Deleted member]

They’re the same characters m8. Pit is still Pit. It’s like saying 8-bit Mario is a different character from the mainline mario games which isn’t true.

I don’t see how the Link’s being different characters is relevant especially when different Links are playable as costume swaps.

That last part is just you presenting your own ideas as facts.

Exactly. Playable characters with spirits, and different team deciding the spirits likely means that spirits aren't deconfirmation.

Until all 5 of the DLC characters are revealed, we can't be certain though, but, again, very likely that spirits don't deconfirm

shocktarts17 It doesn't matter if they are variations or not, they are the same character. Wearing a different outfit doesn't equal different character. You also can't call the Geno spirit Geno (Classic) without hinting at something

 

[Datboigeno]

It's not about if they are the same character or not, its about how they are presented as spirits. Mario wearing a tennis outfit is different where spirits are concerned. Think about this instead, does the Venusaur spirit count as the same thing as the Ivysaur one? Of course not because they are different Pokemon, but Ivysaur becomes Venusaur so they're technically the same "person." Different versions of each spirit counts as its own thing and is differentiated as such [i.e. Mario (Tennis outfit)] so when a spirit is presented without that the assumption is that this is the "main" version of that character.


That'l BotW Link dressed as the other versions not a whole different version.

My dude you’re genuinely just presenting your opinions on this stuff as set rules.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Why is this even a ****ing argument when Partner Pikachu was added in an update and Cloud uses his Smash render for his fighter spirit.

Logic doesn’t apply to who or what a spirit is. Your theories aren’t facts.

Stop it.

 

[shocktarts17]

My dude you’re genuinely just presenting your opinions on this stuff as set rules.

no I'm pointing out consistencies in the way spirits work.

 

[Datboigeno]

Why is this even a ****ing argument when Partner Pikachu was added in an update and Cloud uses his Smash render for his fighter spirit.

Logic doesn’t apply to who or what a spirit is. Your theories aren’t facts.

Stop it.

****ing thank you

 

[TreeBranch]

The equitable fighter spirits were quite obviously intended to be viewed as different versions of the fighters, even if they look very similar. I don't know why people keep argueing against this. I suppose the Geno spirit could be renamed "Geno (Original)", but that's a huge stretch considering they'd both represent the exact same character without a notable variation. I do believe Geno's spirit hurts his chances significantly, as it seems like the DLC was chosen at a time that would allow changes to spirits, but it's not a hard deconfirm at all. I still have faith this little guy can pull through

 

[Datboigeno]

The equitable fighter spirits were quite obviously intended to be viewed as different versions of the fighters, even if they look very similar. I don't know why people keep argueing against this. I suppose the Geno spirit could be renamed "Geno (Original)", but that's a huge stretch considering they'd both represent the exact same character without a notable variation. I do believe Geno's spirit hurts his chances significantly, as it seems like the DLC was chosen at a time that would allow changes to spirits, but it's not a hard deconfirm at all. I still have faith this little guy can pull through

If anything the hypothetical Geno fighter spirit could just be named Geno (Smash).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You really need to remember that a separate team choosing the DLC means that Sakurai didn't have plans of making that character a spirit. I am kind of getting tired of repeating this lol.

You're telling me, I constantly have to repeat points regarding the empty ID slots. Either there's plenty of goldfish, or nobody's doing research for posts.

Getting tired of these damn fan rules.

 

[Deleted member]

"Unfortunately, while we wanted to make Geno playable, it turns out that there's a png of him already in the game named "Geno" and we can't find a way around this so he can't be playable. Please understand."

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Every time "spirits disconfirm characters" comes up it just makes me laugh. The amount of evidence for the contrary, and the absolute lack of any and all logic to the argument is just... silly.