Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[ChronoBound]

In my opinion, DQ characters don't bring the uniqueness like Geno does. We already have a character that uses a sword and magic (Robin), so we've already seen it. Do we have a character that uses time hits and a gun for a hand? No, but hmm........ it sounds like it'll be something unique and in consideration for Sakurai and Nintendo when picking the DLC.

In a world where a traditionally immobile plant that has never been playable in the Mario spinoffs gets selected as the unique newcomer for Super Mario,, I think "uniqueness" and "moveset potential" are basically a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" argument when you really think about it (I think the only time a character has ever been kept out due to not being unique enough was with Chrom, and even he eventually got added in).

It's just that we're super old by gamer standards and coming here day after day for hours at a time is a huge investment. Sure, plenty of people do this through other means whether it's Netflix or fantasy leagues or Reddit or 4chan but it doesn't mean it's good, you know? Like I said, I think we're getting to a point where it's becoming less fun and more tedious like doing taxes.

I am around the same age as you, and I feel exactly the same way.

 

[Luigi The President]

at this point im thinking of dropping out of the speculation too. im a high schooler and ive been spending most of my time when im not doing school work or talking with friends here or in the geno discord. ill probably come back here to talk a bit when dlc and stuff gets revealed and give my two cents but im done constantly speculating. i have a girlfriend, hobbies, and i kinda have a social life and i want to put those above geno speculation. ill probably still drop in the geno discord every now and then but uhh yea.

tl;dr, its been a fun ride with yall and some of the people here are really cool, but im dropping out for now.

Stay safe buddy. Was a pleasure having you here.

I feel Dragon Quest is infinitely more likely. Also, Since Nintendo no longer cares about being associated with anti-LGBT sentiment since they are adding a series that is notoriously transphobic to smash, I no longer think the composer of Dragon Quest will be any sort of deterrent to them at all.

I want to preface with this; I am trans, I get what I'm discussing.
I think there's a big difference between including a Persona rep, a series which has a few minor characters played as gags, then including the music of a composer who is a bigot. Like...a big one. Including Persona isn't directly promoting transphobia, as it's not really too prevalent in the series-but including the DQ music does promote these ideologies as it makes this one singular bigot money.

 

[PolarPanda]

You'll never see it comiiiiiiiiiing

But it's time it hit you, your last surprise!

JK I got nothing else, probably not for a while obviously lol. Enix list still stands obviously, with all the names going around internally and that all other leakers have heard, it's clear that Enix likely has a rep. I'm 100% on that. I will admit, my odds of Geno dropped quite a bit. It's very possible the NoA rumor could be wrong, as I've always said there was that possibility since he was never confirmed whether it would be Geno or not. If it's not Geno, I'm betting on DQ personally. I'd be happy with either, in all honesty. Crono would be really cool too. Hope you all are having fun with the game.

 

[ForsakenM]

I feel Dragon Quest is infinitely more likely. Also, Since Nintendo no longer cares about being associated with anti-LGBT sentiment since they are adding a series that is notoriously transphobic to smash, I no longer think the composer of Dragon Quest will be any sort of deterrent to them at all.

What the hell are you even on? I'm not familiar with Persona at all, but frankly art cannot have intent as it isn't a living, breathing thing. Sure, it can have the creators intent poured into it, but that is different than having intent. Thus, a video game itself cannot be transphobic itself, but rather it could have creator intent and ideals mixed in and therefore the creator could be.

Even still, what the hell does that mean? All I see is weird stuff like blowing your brains out to summon your true power and art style that makes me wonder if I took drugs before watching but with good things mixed in like accepting your flaws and working on them brings you closer to your true self and empowers you.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

You'll never see it comiiiiiiiiiing

But it's time it hit you, your last surprise!

JK I got nothing else, probably not for a while obviously lol. Enix list still stands obviously, with all the names going around internally and that all other leakers have heard, it's clear that Enix likely has a rep. I'm 100% on that. I will admit, my odds of Geno dropped quite a bit. It's very possible the NoA rumor could be wrong, as I've always said there was that possibility since he was never confirmed whether it would be Geno or not. If it's not Geno, I'm betting on DQ personally. I'd be happy with either, in all honesty. Crono would be really cool too. Hope you all are having fun with the game.

There still room to push for a wave 2?

 

[PolarPanda]

There still room to push for a wave 2?

Yes. I mean, since it's not currently planned, it's a possibility people could/should push for if possible.

 

[Luigi The President]

You'll never see it comiiiiiiiiiing

But it's time it hit you, your last surprise!

JK I got nothing else, probably not for a while obviously lol. Enix list still stands obviously, with all the names going around internally and that all other leakers have heard, it's clear that Enix likely has a rep. I'm 100% on that. I will admit, my odds of Geno dropped quite a bit. It's very possible the NoA rumor could be wrong, as I've always said there was that possibility since he was never confirmed whether it would be Geno or not. If it's not Geno, I'm betting on DQ personally. I'd be happy with either, in all honesty. Crono would be really cool too. Hope you all are having fun with the game.

Can I ask why the Geno odds dropped?

 

[StormC]

Persona has some rather unflattering depictions of trans people but I think saying the series is "notoriously transphobic" is a stretch.

But either way I don't think Nintendo really cares much about associating with XYZ, at least Nintendo Of Japan. They're a pretty apolitical company.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The Joker reveal reminds me of how no one saw K. Rool coming.

The leakers especially Vergeben didn't see K. Rool coming, but a lot of fans did. Especially after seeing Ridley get in. After Ridley got in, it was only a matter of time when we would see K. Rool.

 

[PolarPanda]

Can I ask why the Geno odds dropped?

Of course, this is just an opinion and not a leak. When Reggie said the DLC would be characters that are new to Smash, I took that as characters who have not had a part in Smash at all. Of course, that might not be what it means, but that's how I interpreted that. Geno has had a mii costume in the previous game and is also a spirit in the current game. Wave 2 he has a great shot if it happens. I still think he has a shot in Wave 1, I just think there is a good possibility that is what Reggie meant. We will have to find out.

 

[Luigi The President]

Of course, this is just an opinion and not a leak. When Reggie said the DLC would be characters that are new to Smash, I took that as characters who have not had a part in Smash at all. Of course, that might not be what it means, but that's how I interpreted that. Geno has had a mii costume in the previous game and is also a spirit in the current game. Wave 2 he has a great shot if it happens. I still think he has a shot in Wave 1, I just think there is a good possibility that is what Reggie meant. We will have to find out.

I mean...I think it's just literally "characters who aren't playable yet"
He basically just said the definition of newcomer-don't see why we're looking so deep into it.

I'm just glad it's an opinion and not a leak thing tho.
One last question for ya if it's alright-is Sephiroth indeed on weak legs at this point? Been confused on this.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Yes. I mean, since it's not currently planned, it's a possibility people could/should push for if possible.

Then let's do it! Who do we have to talk to? do we just start making hashtags or what?

I mean...I think it's just literally "characters who aren't playable yet"
He basically just said the definition of newcomer-don't see why we're looking so deep into it.

Considering nobody was cut from this game, it makes no sense to make such a distinction when literally any character that could be added would be new to smash by that logic.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

ignore this post

 

[Icewolff92]

Yeah but Shadow is a SEGA character , and It's been discussed a lot that he could be a semi-clone/unique character.


I'm just a random person on the internet , but If I could say something , I'm sure this isn't your only legacy.
If you're married , debt free , and two degree , then you have done something good with your life.
If speculating about Geno's chance over and over is making you more and more depressed , take a break. You've helped creating a community , and It's not gonna fall apart if you leave. Nobody force you to stay here , do what's best for your life !

And... This is pretty personnal... But I fu***** wish I knew a 30/40 year old gamer with this much passion in my life. Maybe for you it look ridiculous to still do that at your age , but for me , It's impressive , in a good way.

And as DatboiGeno said , you're a Geno fan , but you are also married , or maybe a sport fan , or a teacher , I dunno , but you are several things , not just a Geno fan.

Sorry if I offended you in anyway , english isn't my first language , but I really wanted to give my opinion about this. You're a great man , and if you need a break , take it , because you deserve it.

I really don't get what him being Sega has to do with anything since A) Sega is clearly okay adding him in as an AT again, on top of adding Knuckles. B) just because he could be a unique doesn't mean he has to be one. C) We have Ken and Richter as Echoes. So what would stop Shadow for being one if Sakurai really wanted

 

[Luigi The President]

Then let's do it! Who do we have to talk to? do we just start making hashtags or what?


Considering nobody was cut from this game, it makes no sense to make such a distinction when literally any character that could be added would be new to smash by that logic.

I mean...it still makes sense for setting the basis of what these newcomers would be.
A simple passing comment of "they'll all be new" emphasizes how each character won't be a veteran, they'll all be new. It's just a reminder, for people curious on if they should get the pass or not.

 

[KidCham]

Can I ask why the Geno odds dropped?

well i'm not meaning to troll the thread here, but i think the argument of supporting "alive" series is much more impactful as some might think. It's either you are from a continuating serie or you are a legacy character.
While i think Geno could have gotten in the base roster as a legacy character, i think DLC will prioritize main characters if you are from a legacy serie. When you have 5 spots of front selling products like a DLC is, you can't put a secondary character in the main spot.


Because you are selling a stand alone product. That's also why i dont think characters like Sylux have a chance, or Tails, or Bandana Waddle Dee or anything else.

As they are a stand alone product they also are the main course of their own selling arguments that's why i think they have to be main character.

Geno had much more chances to be in the base roster than in DLC thanks to this thinking.

Although i may be totally wrong. But as it stands for now, i think the first DLC pack is main characters from other things, while if there is a second DLC pack, it'll probably be the last and will be more aimed at core gamers and fanbase and there Geno would have better chances, just like Waluigi

 

[SSGuy]

That's what I don't understand. Why is it so hard to imagine he was talking about brand new DLC character and not returning veterans as DLC?

 

[ForsakenM]

That's what I don't understand. Why is it so hard to imagine he was talking about brand new DLC character and not returning veterans as DLC?

Because there are no more veterans and that was already pointed out in the Nov 1 Direct by White Sakurai, thus repeating a similar line after Joker's reveal gives new potential context.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's not that I don't think Geno's possible or probable anymore, I'm just getting to the point where I no longer care. Again, it could be another 14 months before Geno is hard confirmed or disconfirmed and, if anything, the Square rep is likely being saved for E3 which is still 7 months away and that's a long time. Becoming the Bojack Horseman of Smashboards was never really my end goal but, well, here we are and I'm seeing it for what it is.

 

[KidCham]

I really don't get what him being Sega has to do with anything since A) Sega is clearly okay adding him in as an AT again, on top of adding Knuckles. B) just because he could be a unique doesn't mean he has to be one. C) We have Ken and Richter as Echoes. So what would stop Shadow for being one if Sakurai really wanted

It does sounds right but i may say it's incorrect. When Sega gives a playable character, or any other company, they have requirements, on how the character is represented, his colors, his moveset, and his power.
Because with these requirements you are not only protecting a character but also a brand.

That's why Sonic can't be red or yellow as alternative colors. This is a simple example.
You can see the same with pokemon colors, Cloud colors, Pacman colors.

As they are brand, they are important and protected, you can't put Pacman in red or blue, you can't put Sonic in red or yellow as it would "undermine" the brand.

Now what this has to do with not implementing Shadow?

The very simple reason, and i can tell you it's facts, Shadow as a playable character would "overshadow" Sonic spotlight in the game as the representative of the brand. Undermining the brand of Sonic itself.
That's why you can't play other friends of Sonic and probably will never be able to in any DLC (mii costumes dont work)

It may sounds weird, but this is how protection of characters work, and it's why Shadow will never be in.

 

[Datboigeno]

Of course, this is just an opinion and not a leak. When Reggie said the DLC would be characters that are new to Smash, I took that as characters who have not had a part in Smash at all. Of course, that might not be what it means, but that's how I interpreted that. Geno has had a mii costume in the previous game and is also a spirit in the current game. Wave 2 he has a great shot if it happens. I still think he has a shot in Wave 1, I just think there is a good possibility that is what Reggie meant. We will have to find out.

Then let's do it! Who do we have to talk to? do we just start making hashtags or what?


Considering nobody was cut from this game, it makes no sense to make such a distinction when literally any character that could be added would be new to smash by that logic.

well i'm not meaning to troll the thread here, but i think the argument of supporting "alive" series is much more impactful as some might think. It's either you are from a continuating serie or you are a legacy character.
While i think Geno could have gotten in the base roster as a legacy character, i think DLC will prioritize main characters if you are from a legacy serie. When you have 5 spots of front selling products like a DLC is, you can't put a secondary character in the main spot.


Because you are selling a stand alone product. That's also why i dont think characters like Sylux have a chance, or Tails, or Bandana Waddle Dee or anything else.

As they are a stand alone product they also are the main course of their own selling arguments that's why i think they have to be main character.

Geno had much more chances to be in the base roster than in DLC thanks to this thinking.

Although i may be totally wrong. But as it stands for now, i think the first DLC pack is main characters from other things, while if there is a second DLC pack, it'll probably be the last and will be more aimed at core gamers and fanbase and there Geno would have better chances, just like Waluigi

The thing about the "new to Smash" thing taken to its full extent is that not only would Geno be btfo but so would Porky, Sylux, and Lloyd. Becuase they've all been in Smash in some capacity before as a trophy, boss, and costume respectively. So it begs the question where are people making these distinctions? Because if the "music screen theory" is legit and we have 2 new series and 2 remaining series reps left then that would mean the two DLC characters representing new series could have never been represented in Smash before. And that just seems incorrect or at least highly unlikely. So really if you're thinking Lloyd, Porky,and Sylux could be coming then it'd just come down to the fact that they're not spirits yet.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I mean...it still makes sense for setting the basis of what these newcomers would be.
A simple passing comment of "they'll all be new" emphasizes how each character won't be a veteran, they'll all be new. It's just a reminder, for people curious on if they should get the pass or not.

But we already know that the DLC won't be veterans, by the very nature of the game's premise, that being: "everyone is here". It's like saying "This DLC will be for smash brothers ultimate" It seems odd to specify something and have it mean stuff we can't possibly not know

 

[ForsakenM]

It's not that I don't think Geno's possible or probable anymore, I'm just getting to the point where I no longer care. Again, it could be another 14 months before Geno is hard confirmed or disconfirmed and, if anything, the Square rep is likely being saved for E3 which is still 7 months away and that's a long time. Becoming the Bojack Horseman of Smashboards was never really my end goal but, well, here we are and I'm seeing it for what it is.

Eh, I doubt the Square reveal will be at E3 or EVO or any big event if we get Geno. It's more likely to be in a Direct alongside Square news. If the Square rep gets revealed at a big event, it ain't our blue puppet boi.

 

[SSGuy]

It's not that I don't think Geno's possible or probable anymore, I'm just getting to the point where I no longer care. Again, it could be another 14 months before Geno is hard confirmed or disconfirmed and, if anything, the Square rep is likely being saved for E3 which is still 7 months away and that's a long time. Becoming the Bojack Horseman of Smashboards was never really my end goal but, well, here we are and I'm seeing it for what it is.

What Square Enix character could they be saving for E3 while knowing Sora is a no go? He's the only one that would really make sense for that scenario.

 

[The Anigriffin]

But we already know that the DLC won't be veterans, by the very nature of the game's premise, that being: "everyone is here". It's like saying "This DLC will be for smash brothers ultimate" It seems odd to specify something and have it mean stuff we can't possibly not know

Remember "until now" from Brawl? And Ness was in the game anyway? All it is is semantics in order to sell the pass. After all, Reggie isn't the one making the game.

 

[KidCham]

The thing about the "new to Smash" thing taken to its full extent is that not only would Geno be btfo but so would Porky, Sylux, and Lloyd. Becuase they've all been in Smash in some capacity before as a trophy, boss, and costume respectively. So it begs the question where are people making these distinctions? Because if the "music screen theory" is legit and we have 2 new series and 2 remaining series reps left then that would mean the two DLC characters representing new series could have never been represented in Smash before. And that just seems incorrect or at least highly unlikely. So really if you're thinking Lloyd, Porky,and Sylux could be coming then it'd just come down to the fact that they're not spirits yet.

i dont think the music theory is right, anyway it could bring Final Fantasy music in itself and Xenoblade Chronicles (which is the most plausible of all). The screen doesn't need to be even as it's not now
as the stages select screen won't even be completed with the 5 DLCs (the plant wont bring a new stage)
as the character select screen doesn't even have enough seats for 6 more characters as it stands

 

[Ovaltine]

snipped for length

You know what? You're right, at the very least on the less personal bits of this. This isn't just about Smash. It's never been. Geno's chances of a return, even if not through Smash, have never been better, and we can't let that chance slip through our fingertips.

Personally, I'm going to step back from speculation and focus on the future for him outside of Smash. If I were y'all, I would recommend trying to reach Nintendo in the way that I mentioned: with positivity, fondness, and loving memories for Geno and SMRPG. Express your love and your faith in Nintendo should they decide to bring him back. Mention your gratitude that he's been brought to us at all and how much more grateful we would be if we were to see him come back. Show your passion, but don't, for the love of God, heckle them or harass them. Show them love, appreciation, and that Geno makes us happy. Make them smile. Move them as Geno has moved us.

I still stand by the idea of a mass letter, too. That might also be effective. A campaign of some sort, too, would be amazing. Even if it's not for Smash Ultimate, I'm personally not giving up on Geno. We've already pioneered a lot of progress and brought him back to Nintendo's eyes. I'm not standing down now, and while everyone is up to their own choices, I personally am choosing this route.

We may be down, but we are not out, not by any means.

(ETA: god almighty i feel like i've become the inspirational shounen anime spokesperson for this thread and its weird i'm ready to get off of sakurai's magical ride)

 

[Icewolff92]

Sorry but I have to call out stuff when I see it: Chrom has been campaigned for ever since he was only part of Robin's FS and people wanted him before that reveal. Shadow had little support until echo fighters were announced, in which the game was already clearly in development and closer to going gold than not since it was in June. Ken was a fine reveal, Incineroar was an amazing reveal (and if you think otherwise your bias either against him or for another character clouds your judgement) and our potted boi demands your respect. Reggie suggested at the VGAs that this is a taste of what is to come, and thus Joker being a far cry from a 'shill pick' could very well mean fewer to no shill picks despite NoJ having a big say.

Yes, I know that Chrom has been campaigned for. It was hard to not see the memes about him.
But the fact still stands that people are using Sakurai's comment about how he didn't want to add more Fire emblem characters but "was forced in a corner" with Corrin, which I find Chroms inclusion contradict

If he really thought that way, then someone like Shadow would have made more sense since he is a popular character with pre-existing model and Sonic franchise only have one rep or not add him in for that matter. There are other characters that were as much or even more requested then Chrom yet he adds yet another FE character to the mix. That's why I'm saying that his comment about that doesn't really hold up against a potential FE TH rep(which I hope doesn't happen but do expect all things considered. And I'm saying this as an FE fan)

Also. I'm not against the inclusion of Incineroar, Ken or Piranha Plant for that matter. I think PP looks like a neat addition and Ken and Incineroar are fine additions (although the latter one is a major disappointment to me due to the recovery however that is a different story). However, ending your Smash directs of with those characters, when you have revealed the likes of the Belmonts, Ridley or King K earlier, setting the bar quite high, ending it off with those three aren't the smartest marketing move.

Yes, I know what Reggie said, but the pessimistic me can't see how Nintendo of Japan WON*T adds at least one or two promotional DLC in. I mean, they did it with Smash4s when they had the ballot to go with, so why change the tone now?

 

[Datboigeno]

You know what? You're right, at the very least on the less personal bits of this. This isn't just about Smash. It's never been. Geno's chances of a return, even if not through Smash, have never been better, and we can't let that chance slip through our fingertips.

Personally, I'm going to step back from speculation and focus on the future for him outside of Smash. If I were y'all, I would recommend trying to reach Nintendo in the way that I mentioned: with positivity, fondness, and loving memories for Geno and SMRPG. Express your love and your faith in Nintendo should they decide to bring him back. Mention your gratitude that he's been brought to us at all and how much more grateful we would be if we were to see him come back. Show your passion, but don't, for the love of God, heckle them or harass them. Show them love, appreciation, and that Geno makes us happy. Make them smile. Move them as Geno has moved us.

I still stand by the idea of a mass letter, too. That might also be effective. A campaign of some sort, too, would be amazing. Even if it's not for Smash Ultimate, I'm personally not giving up on Geno. We've already pioneered a lot of progress and brought him back to Nintendo's eyes. I'm not standing down now, and while everyone is up to their own choices, I personally am choosing this route.

We may be down, but we are not out, not by any means.

(ETA: god almighty i feel like i've become the inspirational shounen anime spokesperson for this thread and its weird i'm ready to get off of sakurai's magical ride)

I'm going to keep speculating as well but I want to chime in on this idea and say that maybe instead of just sending something to Nintendo we could also send something to SE. I mean, they're the rights holders so I think there's as much reason to contact them about it as not since they've seeming ly been the biggest roadblock for him getting into Smash and elsewhere.

 

[Loliko YnT]

I really don't get what him being Sega has to do with anything since A) Sega is clearly okay adding him in as an AT again, on top of adding Knuckles. B) just because he could be a unique doesn't mean he has to be one. C) We have Ken and Richter as Echoes. So what would stop Shadow for being one if Sakurai really wanted

Because there is a difference between 2 belmonts and the original echo fighter , and Shadow.
Shadow is the second most popular Sonic character behind the blue blur himself.

But there are others things to consider.
Would SEGA be alright with having one of their biggest character a clone ? Maybe they think it could overshadow Sonic. We don't know how companies can think sometimes. They could give 10 AT and not a single new character.
It also depend on what Sakurai think of the character. All of theses echo fighters wouldn't have been in without the echo concept. Maybe he thought Shadow wouldn't fit Sonic more energetic animations.
Like I really try to imagine Shadow doing Sonic aerials and if looked of to me.
Or maybe he felt low priority for the base game.

And has people stated before , his support was very recent compared to Chrom. Chrom was speculated/requested since Sm4sh and had a Mii costume. Shadow didn't.

For us , it look obvious that Shadow would have been a perfect fit as an echo , but the 2 third party echo were a surprise echo and Mr.Ken himself.

My point is that , despise Shadow potential as an echo , there were others problems that were out of Sakurai's hand. We don't know how SEGA operate with playable characters in Smash , they are the companie who don't even allow Sonic to not be blue and shove Green Hill Zone 9 times in the same game.

And that's something we need to remember for Geno , we all know he's third party and how SE is. If he was Nintendo or bought back , he would have been a character since Sm4sh , but since SE have still to see how much Smash could benefit them (2 Spirits that aren't Cloud , it was free promotion , and they completely missed it.) because for them it just look like another AAA game that they have seen since 10 years.
I genuinely don't think they realize what they lost with giving so little to Smash Bros. Especially when you see Konami back with 3 characters , 2 AT/stages , a bunch of Spirits , and 50 music tracks. And they were beeing called out for ruining Castlevania/MGS 3 years ago.

Third parties can be very unpredictable at times , especially when it come to Smash Bros.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Sorry but I have to call out stuff when I see it: Chrom has been campaigned for ever since he was only part of Robin's FS and people wanted him before that reveal. Shadow had little support until echo fighters were announced, in which the game was already clearly in development and closer to going gold than not since it was in June. Ken was a fine reveal, Incineroar was an amazing reveal (and if you think otherwise your bias either against him or for another character clouds your judgement) and our potted boi demands your respect. Reggie suggested at the VGAs that this is a taste of what is to come, and thus Joker being a far cry from a 'shill pick' could very well mean fewer to no shill picks despite NoJ having a big say.





Whoa whoa whoa, hold the got-DAYUM phone here. Listen, I get it, it's been a long road. I've been there as well, though I've ducked out from time to time just due to pure life and how there is constantly stuff going on so sometimes you overlook things that meant something to you, but you can't just opt out like this my dude? Sure, I may have called you out on something in which I disagree with how you handled it, and SURE this is getting rather frustrating at this point, but let us reconsider our position before you throw in the towel after being a guiding star for so many years. Even if Geno doesn't make it into Ultimate, Octopath Traveler did AMAZINGLY well and even had multiple nominations at the VGAs this year! This means that Square knows it was a success and can follow through with their statement to keep working with the Switch with both new IPs and old ones alike. Geno's chances to come back in some shape or form have never been higher, Smash be damned. Sure, him getting into Smash would be better for him overall, but even if he doesn't good things for him can still happen.

Sure, you may be thinking right now that it is irrelevant regardless if it happens one way or another, but you would be wrong. You would be one of many who stuck around pushing the envelope to the edge and beyond to finally see your favorite character return, and that in itself is something crazy ridiculous. Seriously, Geno returning in full bloom purely due to fan demand? A 20+ year old character from a single game in the late 90s that never got to be seen ever again aside from the most minor of cameos and has been largely forgotten by a company that prefers to create droves of spiky-haired brooding anime protagonists and is on the same level of stingy as Scrooge McDuck? No one would even dream of bothering to try and support that, yet here we are, and here you are at the forefront: THE fatmanonice, the man with the dope *** Popeye pic for a profile and the one who tries the hardest to spread the facts and the speculation for the odds of possibly one of the most obscure characters in all of video game history. And if it amount to nothing, it's not like your whole life is worthless: you aren't so obsessed with it that you live under a bridge and walk to McDonald's every day to use wifi just to post here. You have a life, and from what little I know, it seems pretty good.

If you need a break, take a break, but don't bail out completely. I'm sure you don't want to be the guy that gave up on Geno only to have it actually happen afterwards, I'm sure that would feel a bit upsetting. Much more than being in the fray the whole go.

Honestly; our investment and passion in stuff that may be trivial is just what makes us human. You do what you gotta do man; I won't hold you back, but I personally think getting attached to what may seem unimportant to some is a great quality we as a species have.

 

[Icewolff92]

Because there is a difference between 2 belmonts and the original echo fighter , and Shadow.
Shadow is the second most popular Sonic character behind the blue blur himself.

But there are others things to consider.
Would SEGA be alright with having one of their biggest character a clone ? Maybe they think it could overshadow Sonic. We don't know how companies can think sometimes. They could give 10 AT and not a single new character.
It also depend on what Sakurai think of the character. All of theses echo fighters wouldn't have been in without the echo concept. Maybe he thought Shadow wouldn't fit Sonic more energetic animations.
Like I really try to imagine Shadow doing Sonic aerials and if looked of to me.
Or maybe he felt low priority for the base game.

And has people stated before , his support was very recent compared to Chrom. Chrom was speculated/requested since Sm4sh and had a Mii costume. Shadow didn't.

For us , it look obvious that Shadow would have been a perfect fit as an echo , but the 2 third party echo were a surprise echo and Mr.Ken himself.

My point is that , despise Shadow potential as an echo , there were others problems that were out of Sakurai's hand. We don't know how SEGA operate with playable characters in Smash , they are the companie who don't even allow Sonic to not be blue and shove Green Hill Zone 9 times in the same game.

And that's something we need to remember for Geno , we all know he's third party and how SE is. If he was Nintendo or bought back , he would have been a character since Sm4sh , but since SE have still to see how much Smash could benefit them (2 Spirits that aren't Cloud , it was free promotion , and they completely missed it.) because for them it just look like another AAA game that they have seen since 10 years.
I genuinely don't think they realize what they lost with giving so little to Smash Bros. Especially when you see Konami back with 3 characters , 2 AT/stages , a bunch of Spirits , and 50 music tracks. And they were beeing called out for ruining Castlevania/MGS 3 years ago.

Third parties can be very unpredictable at times , especially when it come to Smash Bros.

Okay, I yield when it comes to the Shadow part, after all, I saw now that I'm caught up with it. But I still can't see why Sakurai would add Chrom if he really was against adding more characters playable for that series. It's just contradiction, to say the least. But maybe that's just me

 

[KoopaSaki]

well i'm not meaning to troll the thread here, but i think the argument of supporting "alive" series is much more impactful as some might think. It's either you are from a continuating serie or you are a legacy character.
While i think Geno could have gotten in the base roster as a legacy character, i think DLC will prioritize main characters if you are from a legacy serie. When you have 5 spots of front selling products like a DLC is, you can't put a secondary character in the main spot.


Because you are selling a stand alone product. That's also why i dont think characters like Sylux have a chance, or Tails, or Bandana Waddle Dee or anything else.

As they are a stand alone product they also are the main course of their own selling arguments that's why i think they have to be main character.

Geno had much more chances to be in the base roster than in DLC thanks to this thinking.

Although i may be totally wrong. But as it stands for now, i think the first DLC pack is main characters from other things, while if there is a second DLC pack, it'll probably be the last and will be more aimed at core gamers and fanbase and there Geno would have better chances, just like Waluigi

Don’t forget Isaac. I just really hope nintendo is at least thinking about the prospect of adding a golden sun rep especially if there is a future golden sun game for the Nintendo switch on the way. In the meantime I’m supporting golden sun getting revived and Isaac getting in as dlc in a possible wave 2 or 1 as a character on the roster by competing as literally him in the smash pro scene. I even took 1st place at my locals yesterday!

 

[valkiriforce]

I'm staying for the crazy ride. I think this would be a good time to figure out what we can do as a fanbase to spread our love and care for both Super Mario RPG and Geno in particular. One of the ideas I had earlier was along the lines of what a Nintendo advertisement did when they had people talking about games that meant a lot to them; maybe it would be a good idea for people to share those memories of Super Mario RPG through videos and posts with Nintendo hashtags. To be honest I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to do if I want to push for a second DLC wave, but I can always spread the love of SMRPG in the meantime. I like what PapaGenos has been doing lately with having his brother play the game for the first time and getting lots of viewers watching them have at it. I was thinking about streaming Super Mario RPG since I felt like playing it again; could be a good little spot for fans of the game to share memories or just chat in general.

Of course, there are plenty of other creative outlets people could take advantage of. I like seeing those T-Shirt designs for Geno with his Geno Blast, and people have made little trinkets and toys out of Geno. Maybe even mods of existing games like that Mugen video someone posted of Geno so he's at least playable someplace until we hear anything more about DLC. All we know is everything is on hold right now regarding DLC information, and we probably won't know anything until it's revealed or someone has absolute and definitive evidence of any characters, but I'm not holding my breath on that. I'd like to think of what I can do creatively out of love for the game in general, and if there's any way we can make our voices heard.

That being said, I'm still positive about Geno's chances. I'm certain that Sakurai has been made to acknowledge Geno in more ways than one. There must have been talks about him with thinking about him during Brawl's development, then talking with Square Enix for the Mii outfit, and of course his appearance as a spirit in SSBU. He's openly acknowledged that he gets a lot of votes, and I have a hard time thinking he isn't likely given that we know there is likely an SE character incoming, whether directly as a Square Enix character (unique icon) or likely a shared Mario icon. I'm doubtful on Crono and the rest but I've always thought it was mostly between Geno and Sora, and if Sora is out of the running then I'm thinking Geno is more likely. These are just my thoughts obviously, and I'm not saying Crono and company can't happen - everything to me is within the realm of possibility but I'm thinking along the lines of a unique character + Sakurai choice.

Chin-up dudes and dudettes - take a break and play some Smash Ultimate + Super Mario RPG and maybe share it with a friend.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

It's pretty exhausting seeing everyone submit to Dragon Quest; backing it just so they can get some clout for guessing who get's into DLC. Congrats I guess? You'd rather see a morally corrupt man receive royalties than being wrong about somthing like a video game roster? I'd be really curious to see how much support Dragon Quest would have if there was no "Square List"

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

at this point im thinking of dropping out of the speculation too. im a high schooler and ive been spending most of my time when im not doing school work or talking with friends here or in the geno discord. ill probably come back here to talk a bit when dlc and stuff gets revealed and give my two cents but im done constantly speculating. i have a girlfriend, hobbies, and i kinda have a social life and i want to put those above geno speculation. ill probably still drop in the geno discord every now and then but uhh yea.

tl;dr, its been a fun ride with yall and some of the people here are really cool, but im dropping out for now.

It's been fun knowing you, as well. I hope to see you again. I, too, will be dropping out of speculation. I'm more interested in reading it rather than noting it. I'm happy to have you here with us, and as I said before, I hope to see you again.

Because I'm 31 years old and way too invested in this. My optimism comes from my own theorycraft and, all in all, it's irrelevant. All of it. I'm looking at my posts and realizing I'm kind of doing everyone a disservice. I'm not lying to people but I'm honestly making the situation worse. This honestly needs to stop. I need to grow up in the worst kind of way. As someone else mentioned, it's bordering on mental illness. It's just a character in a video game and I'm seeing the scope of my life and realizing what a collosal waste it is. I need to move on. Thirteen years is more than enough. I can't keep doing this to myself.

No but, like I said, it's irrelevant. I have plenty of things outside of Smash including a myriad of hobbies and my LinkedIn profile reads like a damn novel because how involved I am in my community but this ultimately has zero net worth. It doesn't advance my career. It doesn't make me money. It's just the possibility of my favorite video game being playable in another game. That's it. Cathartic, yes, but emotions are fleeting and ultimately worthless if not attached to something of genuine worth.

Even though this takes time out of our days, I'm still happy to have you and everyone else here. You've been supporting Geno for 14 years, it's amazing. I had fun reading your speculations and they were never a disservice to me. It's been a fun run, Fatmanonice, and I'm glad to have you and everyone else here. There's no need to feel down, because this is all for fun, it's not a waste of life. I know this is an off-topic question, but have you started playing Smash Ultimate yet? If so, how do you like it?

I hear you, Fatman. I've struggled with aging a great deal as well; I'm also 30, but not married, and only just starting to get my life anywhere near together after a strange upbringing. I've felt behind my entire life, like everyone is so much farther ahead of me. I got depressed about it a lot. I look at myself, a gamer, a fan of Nintendo and things like Kirby, and I wonder if I'm doing it all wrong.

The conclusion I came to, after much internal debate: life isn't a race, it's not the same for everyone, and changing yours because you're not similar enough to the "norm" is a terrible reason to do or not do anything.

I'm not saying not to change your life if you're unhappy--far from it. But I just want to stress that it's okay to pursue things you're passionate about, regardless of age or life situation. Work toward your legacy, weed out the excess that's causing you grief, but keep the stuff that you love. As Datboigeno said, balance is key. And don't stress about leaving a legacy--life isn't a game, and you don't have to "win" it. Just work toward the things you're proud of, and give yourself props on what you DO accomplish, not what you haven't. I mean, you've got two degrees and a master's, dude. That's already more than I've done my entire life, if we're going by the normal "scoring" system.

Me? I'm going to keep doing this stuff. How long? As long as it's still interesting for me. And in the interim, I'm working on my art, my true purpose in life. Do I have it together? Hells nah. But I'm trying, and that's all that matters. Whatever you choose to do, dude, I'm rooting for you. Just be positive about the change, and keep what makes you happy in the meantime, otherwise it's not going to help.

Gettin' some serious life talks in the Geno thread, lol. But I guess it's to be expected with a 20+ year old character.

I'm also happy to have you here, PhilosophicAnimal. It's been great with you here, and I love art, too. I want to take your words and use them for advice because I'm also behind in life. I missed out on so many things before and after I was born, and won't be able to do the missed opportunities because they're gone forever and nobody nor nothing can make it all come back. All I can do now is advance and hope for the best. And since you like art, I hope to finish my Smithy drawing so you can see it.

And you're correct. Life isn't a race, it's for fun and we have to enjoy it as much as can; we only have one so we must use it wisely.

 

[KidCham]

It's pretty exhausting seeing everyone submit to Dragon Quest; backing it just so they can get some clout for guessing who get's into DLC. Congrats I guess? You'd rather see a morally corrupt man receive royalties than being wrong about somthing like a video game roster? I'd be really curious to see how much support Dragon Quest would have if there was no "Square List"

well it's not about being right or wrong on the character, as when the DLC comes up no one will dig up the posts to see which one was right or wrong

it's just about guessing what's going to be and see the truth in a midst of hints

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold the got-DAYUM phone here. Listen, I get it, it's been a long road. I've been there as well, though I've ducked out from time to time just due to pure life and how there is constantly stuff going on so sometimes you overlook things that meant something to you, but you can't just opt out like this my dude? Sure, I may have called you out on something in which I disagree with how you handled it, and SURE this is getting rather frustrating at this point, but let us reconsider our position before you throw in the towel after being a guiding star for so many years. Even if Geno doesn't make it into Ultimate, Octopath Traveler did AMAZINGLY well and even had multiple nominations at the VGAs this year! This means that Square knows it was a success and can follow through with their statement to keep working with the Switch with both new IPs and old ones alike. Geno's chances to come back in some shape or form have never been higher, Smash be damned. Sure, him getting into Smash would be better for him overall, but even if he doesn't good things for him can still happen.

Sure, you may be thinking right now that it is irrelevant regardless if it happens one way or another, but you would be wrong. You would be one of many who stuck around pushing the envelope to the edge and beyond to finally see your favorite character return, and that in itself is something crazy ridiculous. Seriously, Geno returning in full bloom purely due to fan demand? A 20+ year old character from a single game in the late 90s that never got to be seen ever again aside from the most minor of cameos and has been largely forgotten by a company that prefers to create droves of spiky-haired brooding anime protagonists and is on the same level of stingy as Scrooge McDuck? No one would even dream of bothering to try and support that, yet here we are, and here you are at the forefront: THE fatmanonice, the man with the dope *** Popeye pic for a profile and the one who tries the hardest to spread the facts and the speculation for the odds of possibly one of the most obscure characters in all of video game history. And if it amount to nothing, it's not like your whole life is worthless: you aren't so obsessed with it that you live under a bridge and walk to McDonald's every day to use wifi just to post here. You have a life, and from what little I know, it seems pretty good.

If you need a break, take a break, but don't bail out completely. I'm sure you don't want to be the guy that gave up on Geno only to have it actually happen afterwards, I'm sure that would feel a bit upsetting. Much more than being in the fray the whole go.

You make a fantastic point. It's amazing how a 22 year old character from a game from 1996 is still getting a lot of love today, and we've been loving and supporting Geno for almost two decades! Thanks for making a great point, Forsaken, I appreciate it.

Don’t forget Isaac. I just really hope nintendo is at least thinking about the prospect of adding a golden sun rep especially if there is a future golden sun game for the Nintendo switch on the way. In the meantime I’m supporting golden sun getting revived and Isaac getting in as dlc in a possible wave 2 or 1 as a character on the roster by competing as literally him in the smash pro scene. I even took 1st place at my locals yesterday!

WOW, I'M BLOWN AWAY! This is awesome! I hope to see Isaac if there is a wave 2 for DLC, and if there is a Golden Sun game coming to the Switch, I'll try it out. Question: is that you cosplaying as Isaac?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Don’t forget Isaac. I just really hope nintendo is at least thinking about the prospect of adding a golden sun rep especially if there is a future golden sun game for the Nintendo switch on the way. In the meantime I’m supporting golden sun getting revived and Isaac getting in as dlc in a possible wave 2 or 1 as a character on the roster by competing as literally him in the smash pro scene. I even took 1st place at my locals yesterday!View attachment 182418View attachment 182419

Man I want to see a golden sun resurgence as well. I feel like the isaac and geno fandoms should team up to become one unstoppable dynamo of fan demand.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Don’t forget Isaac. I just really hope nintendo is at least thinking about the prospect of adding a golden sun rep especially if there is a future golden sun game for the Nintendo switch on the way. In the meantime I’m supporting golden sun getting revived and Isaac getting in as dlc in a possible wave 2 or 1 as a character on the roster by competing as literally him in the smash pro scene. I even took 1st place at my locals yesterday!View attachment 182418View attachment 182419

Dude!! I love your cosplay! Honestly I’ve never played Golden Sun, but I really hope that franchise gets the revival it deserves. It looks really interesting.

It's pretty exhausting seeing everyone submit to Dragon Quest; backing it just so they can get some clout for guessing who get's into DLC. Congrats I guess? You'd rather see a morally corrupt man receive royalties than being wrong about somthing like a video game roster? I'd be really curious to see how much support Dragon Quest would have if there was no "Square List"

Probably not very many.