Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Kuon]

Just got finished catching up and woah This thread blew up. First off the big bomb that was dropped really, really bodes well for Geno and that’s super hype.

Second no matter what direction you cut it Septhiroth’s sword is big and while Sakurai could totally make it work look at cloud for example, I think his animations would look kinda..off. Cloud’s sword works cause it’s also wide but Septh’s is slim it would look slightly weird and jank. Even if it didn’t I still expect Geno would be chosen over Septhiroth.

Yeah with how big Sephiroth's sword is, there's pretty much no way they'd try to make him into a character, since they'd have to make his katana much shorter, which would look weird on him. I could see him as a boss though. I think that would work better with that huge sword. Or, of course, not have him in the game at all

 

[Datboigeno]

I’m kind of mixed in terms of what I’d want a VGA trailer to be if it’s not just Geno T-posing:

I’d either want Mario, Peach, and Bowser at Boswer’s Keep taking on Exor with Geno jumping in to Geno Whirl and save the day (with a cameo from Mallow) or Rosalina getting attacked by Ridley and K. Rool with Geno stepping in to save her (and also be a wink to the never-ever triforce). Or even something involving Cloud. So many possibilities!

 

[Nazyrus]

I just remembered that Polar said if he get's info on the VGA; we'll hear one or two days beforehand.... the VGA's are two days away.

Yeah that's because his source would be let known to check the VGA stream if there was about to be anything. So if he doesn't get a heads up before that day or who knows how close before it begins, then maaaaybe we are definitely not getting anything smash related on VGA. Here's hoping he does get a heads up and ends being a hint for something tho.

 

[Kuon]

I just remembered that Polar said if he get's info on the VGA; we'll hear one or two days beforehand.... the VGA's are two days away.

They're three days away though. Today is Monday night in America and the awards are Thursday night, three days from now

 

[Fatmanonice]

Another argument that I've been hearing is that one of Sephiroth's edges (he is pretty edgy, BAZINGA) is that he was created by Nomura but I don't think Nomura would really fight for him. As said in the past, Nomura really didn't fight for Cloud and Cloud in Smash was Sakurai's idea. The initial reaction wasn't "yeah, totally, Sakurai home-skillet" but "what, really, are you sure? How about Lightning?" If he was going to fight for a character, it'd probably be Sora but the evidence points to him showing restraint for the sake of professionalism.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

 

[SSGuy]

-If the SE character is first, while no plans for FF7 Remake on Switch have been announced, lol it might be too early for Sephiroth.

This isn't really a problem considering Final Fantasy 7 is coming to the Switch. They could just market him with what we know is coming.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I’m kind of mixed in terms of what I’d want a VGA trailer to be if it’s not just Geno T-posing:

I’d either want Mario, Peach, and Bowser at Boswer’s Keep taking on Exor with Geno jumping in to Geno Whirl and save the day (with a cameo from Mallow) or Rosalina getting attacked by Ridley and K. Rool with Geno stepping in to save her (and also be a wink to the never-ever triforce). Or even something involving Cloud. So many possibilities!

Geno T posing could be a hell of a meme though!

 

[domriver]

So lets just say Geno will be announced at the VGA how should it be done thru?
Reggie ?
Sakurai?
Square Enix?
Sakurai w/ SE?
Host of VGA?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves... Like I said the other day, the VGA is all but confirmed to be a no go for Smash news if Sakurai doesn't tweet about it before hand.

 

[JarBear]

Geno T posing could be a hell of a meme though!

With “I’m in *****es”

 

[MajoraMan28]

Another argument that I've been hearing is that one of Sephiroth's edges (he is pretty edgy, BAZINGA) is that he was created by Nomura but I don't think Nomura would really fight for him. As said in the past, Nomura really didn't fight for Cloud and Cloud in Smash was Sakurai's idea. The initial reaction wasn't "yeah, totally, Sakurai home-skillet" but "what, really, are you sure? How about Lightning?" If he was going to fight for a character, it'd probably be Sora but the evidence points to him showing restraint for the sake of professionalism.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

Again, Nomura didn't create Sephiroth. He designed the character. Characters and personalities were created by Kazuhige Nojima and FF creator Hironobu Sakaguchi

 

[Datboigeno]

Geno T posing could be a hell of a meme though!

Very true. Once and for all people would know of Geno’s dominance

 

[childishgamgeno]

It's ironic really. A hero fo DQ would represent and benefit a terrible person (the composer) while Geno (not so ironic) or Sephiroth, the biggest bads ever would be the better timeline.

No it isn't.

Yeah, that's the case. No worries fam.

He was talking about his own tactics and what was being done for the base game. Not necessarily for the DLC which is being run by Nintendo.

I meant 7 lol

Fosho

I cant think of a reason why Nintendo wouldn't as well.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Verge sources claim Geno is a no-go, NoA guy says Seph is a no-go but it's Geno instead, so it's basically both of them equally represented on all rumors.

And this right here, is exactly how misinformation gets spread.

Wow, now this is the final battle!
First it was Vergeben vs. Loz18; Vergeben won.
Second it was Vergeben vs. The Grinch Leak; Vergeben won.
Third it was Hitagi vs. The Smash community; the Smash community won.
Now we're at the fourth... The Nintendo Ambassador and PolarPanda vs. Vergeben and his sources?

Who will win? A man with great sources, or a legitimate Nintendo employee that holds and gives correct info?
The real question is... Who will prevail?

 

[SSGuy]

Again, Nomura didn't create Sephiroth. He designed the character. Characters and personalities were created by Kazuhige Nojima and FF creator Hironobu Sakaguchi

Both of these guys are still with SE, correct?

Verge sources claim Geno is a no-go, NoA guy says Seph is a no-go but it's Geno instead, so it's basically both of them equally represented on all rumors.

I don't have a source on either of these claims from either party. Please do not say anything like this.

 

[Super_Queijo]

I'm actually pretty happy with how things are unfolding, with Geno being one of the finalists for the race of the Square slot (I still believe in the possibility of being two Square's rep, with Geno not counting as a true SE rep). Also, DQ and Sora being out of the field (probably) is a relief, I rather have Sephiroth than any of those two (but I would be sad if Geno doesn't make the cut).
If Sephiroth becomes DLC, his FS needs to be this (all it's 2 minutes of glory, spoiler ahead of course):

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves... Like I said the other day, the VGA is all but confirmed to be a no go for Smash news if Sakurai doesn't tweet about it before hand.

Yeah, I've been keeping my expectations super low as in terms of Smash at the VGAs. If it happens that'd be super lit, but I really don't expect it at all.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I'm actually pretty happy with how things are unfolding, with Geno being the one of the finalists for the race of the Square slot (I still believe in the possibility of being two Square's rep, with Geno not counting as a true SE rep). Also, DQ and Sora being out of the field (probably) is a relief, I rather have Sephiroth than any of those two (but I would be sad if Geno doesn't make the cut).
If Sephiroth becomes DLC, his FS needs to be this (all it's 2 minutes of glory, spoiler ahead of course):

Supernova is a no-brainer for his Final Smash, but it must take 5-7 seconds like every FS in the game. They can do it.
And yeah, this form of Sephiroth should be a WoL boss easily. He fits the motif so well it's not even funny.

 

[Datboigeno]

As hyped as I am by today’s juicy news I can’t help but wonder if a leaker or crony of said leaker sent this information to PolarPanda because they were triggered by something he said or did to make him look bad by saying he was spreading false information.

 

[Nazyrus]

So lets just say Geno will be announced at the VGA how should it be done thru?
Reggie ?
Sakurai?
Square Enix?
Sakurai w/ SE?
Host of VGA?

Hmmmm… Probably Reggie. I'm not sure we know if Sakurai will be there?… either that or a host, dunno who tho…

 

[MajoraMan28]

Both of these guys are still with SE, correct?




I don't have a source on either of these claims from either party. Please do not say anything like this.

Nojima, yes.
Sakaguchi is a free lancer and his absence is one of the main reasons S-E has fallen from grace. He was the Iwata or Miyamoto for Squaresoft, and had a huge passion for the characters and stories.

 

[Nekoo]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves... Like I said the other day, the VGA is all but confirmed to be a no go for Smash news if Sakurai doesn't tweet about it before hand.

To be fair
Seems that all company doesn't announce that they're here until Doritos Pope gave them the blessing to talk.
Nintendo didn't retweet anything VGA related yet. But we know they'll be here.

 

[TheCJBrine]

This isn't really a problem considering Final Fantasy 7 is coming to the Switch. They could just market him with what we know is coming.

True, but I already addressed him not being needed since they already advertised it in a Direct, with Nintendo fans that are FF fans seeing it and already potentially convincing them to buy Switches, with non-Nintendo fans more-than-likely not watching it nor keeping up with Smash at all so they'd need to stumble upon it and that's still assuming it's enough to make them spend 300+ dollars for one-two or so games. I just imagined that an FF7 Remake could maybe convince them, but tbh that's only if it's an exclusive, which more-than-likely it won't be.

 

[Luigifan18]

To be fair
Seems that all company doesn't announce that they're here until Doritos Pope gave them the blessing to talk.
Nintendo didn't retweet anything VGA related yet. But we know they'll be here.

Nintendo has mentioned the Game Awards on the Switch news board.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Good lord, keeping up here is honestly like a part time job--one that I'm doing while at my full time job (Yes, I read the boards while at work--I'm not super busy, lol.) Looks like we have some definitive yet uncertain info about Sephy and Geno, and the sad fate of Sora...seems like quite a debate.

My two cents? First...Sephy's sword is not a problem. Aside from the obvious Ridley argument, it should be noted the same points were levelled against Shulk during Smash 4 speculation. "Have you seen the blade in game when it's activated? It's too long! He'd have insane range!" ...and yet, this was fixed by the blade not being out all the time, different grips, and slight adjusting of size. It's entirely possible to do that to Sephy.

But to me, the biggest thing stopping him is something else entirely--marketability. Wait, now hear me out: a lot of noise is made about Sephy's importance to gaming as a whole, especially compared to Geno. And I don't dispute that he'd sell well to those people. But what I'm talking about is MASS appeal. Like, I recently saw an Ultimate commercial where a young brother and sister were playing the game as Yoshi and Isabelle. Would those two buy Sephy? Likely not. They probably don't even know who he is.

But wait, you say. Geno is the same way. And you'd be right--no, casuals and younger players won't know him. However, they don't need to. His design alone appeals to both those seeking "cool" as well as "cute." He's a Mario character, too, and it's plain in his design. Whether they know his history or not, he screams mass appeal.

I just can't say this about Sephy. He's very edgy, yes, but otherwise is fairly unremarkable, especially when set aside from his history. I just don't see kids or the casual player looking at him and thinking "Heh, I like this guy. He really stands out. Ima buy him."

I never thought I'd be saying this, but Geno has far more mass appeal than someone like Sephy. Honestly, if we're going FF, Chocobo would be a more appealing pick to general audiences. Sora definitely would be. But Sephy? I don't see it.

Oh, and let's not forget...Geno still has a dedicated fanbase as well, possibly in the millions, if SMRPG's sales are anything to go by. So he's got both. He's a win for everyone.

Imagine getting a reveal at the VGA; but it's Bandanna Dee. Someone who gives no evidence to any of the current leaks. And we have to wait with baited breath for DLC two lmao.

I would be ok with this, lol. Bdee has earned a bit of spotlight, honestly.

 

[Nekoo]

Nintendo has mentioned the Game Awards on the Switch news board.

Talking about Twitter here, which was his point.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

So lets just say Geno will be announced at the VGA how should it be done thru?
Reggie ?
Sakurai?
Square Enix?
Sakurai w/ SE?
Host of VGA?

Geno himself will announce it.
Or a ventriloquist with a small Geno puppet

 

[Luigifan18]

Geno himself will announce it.
Or a ventriloquist with a small Geno puppet

That would actually be hilarious.

 

[MajoraMan28]

True, but I already addressed him not being needed since they already advertised it in a Direct, with Nintendo fans that are FF fans seeing it and already potentially convincing them to buy Switches, with non-Nintendo fans more-than-likely not watching it nor keeping up with Smash at all so they'd need to stumble upon it and that's still assuming it's enough to make them spend 300+ dollars for one-two or so games. I just imagined that an FF7 Remake could maybe convince them, but tbh that's only if it's an exclusive, which more-than-likely it won't be.

The amiibo support is obviously the version exclusive content that might make people buy the Switch version, with stuff like having Cloud in game be his original model or the AC skin. Seph would be the statement that S-E is truly commiting to engage with Nintendo on a partnership that might be similar to what we had 20-30 years ago. And let me tell you. No company alliance was as massive and well-loved as this one back in the day.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Both of these guys are still with SE, correct?




I don't have a source on either of these claims from either party. Please do not say anything like this.

Sigh....youre quoting my post to say exactly what I said in an argumentative way?

The stuff you quoted as me saying was something I responded to that Majora said. He was making those wrong assumptions

 

[Datboigeno]

The amiibo support is obviously the version exclusive content that might make people buy the Switch version, with stuff like having Cloud in game be his original model or the AC skin. Seph would be the statement that S-E is truly commiting to engage with Nintendo on a partnership that might be similar to what we had 20-30 years ago. And let me tell you. No company alliance was as massive and well-loved as this one back in the day.

Realistically Geno would be a much better representation of the old partnership between SE and Nintendo than Shephiroth.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The amiibo support is obviously the version exclusive content that might make people buy the Switch version, with stuff like having Cloud in game be his original model or the AC skin. Seph would be the statement that S-E is truly commiting to engage with Nintendo on a partnership that might be similar to what we had 20-30 years ago. And let me tell you. No company alliance was as massive and well-loved as this one back in the day.

That still only applies to people who are already Nintendo fans, and the Switch version's profits would go almost entirely to Square (I'd imagine some of it has to go to Nintendo if some Nintendo stuff is actually being used in-game).

 

[MajoraMan28]

That still only applies to people who are already Nintendo fans, and the Switch version's profits would go almost entirely to Square (I'd imagine some of it has to go to Nintendo if some Nintendo stuff is actually being used in-game).

No, bc people who are hardcore fans of the original or of the film and don't have a Switch would go nuts if they see that you can change Cloud's skin with amiibo.
And ironically, I met a girl who is into FF but didn't have a Wii U, but bought the amiibo bc a lot of people are collectors of this stuff. I feel like it would be an incentive.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Okay I guess I have to repost this because people are tagging me and think I stated this quote that MajoraMan said. He quoted wrong so when I replied to his post it looked like I had said what he said.

All of which involve Geno and Sephorith right?
Verge sources claim Geno is a no-go, NoA guy says Seph is a no-go but it's Geno instead, so it's basically both of them equally represented on all rumors.

And my response to this was the following:

And this right here, is exactly how misinformation gets spread.

 

[Pristine]

Good lord, keeping up here is honestly like a part time job--one that I'm doing while at my full time job (Yes, I read the boards while at work--I'm not super busy, lol.) Looks like we have some definitive yet uncertain info about Sephy and Geno, and the sad fate of Sora...seems like quite a debate.

My two cents? First...Sephy's sword is not a problem. Aside from the obvious Ridley argument, it should be noted the same points were levelled against Shulk during Smash 4 speculation. "Have you seen the blade in game when it's activated? It's too long! He'd have insane range!" ...and yet, this was fixed by the blade not being out all the time, different grips, and slight adjusting of size. It's entirely possible to do that to Sephy.

But to me, the biggest thing stopping him is something else entirely--marketability. Wait, now hear me out: a lot of noise is made about Sephy's importance to gaming as a whole, especially compared to Geno. And I don't dispute that he'd sell well to those people. But what I'm talking about is MASS appeal. Like, I recently saw an Ultimate commercial where a young brother and sister were playing the game as Yoshi and Isabelle. Would those two buy Sephy? Likely not. They probably don't even know who he is.

But wait, you say. Geno is the same way. And you'd be right--no, casuals and younger players won't know him. However, they don't need to. His design alone appeals to both those seeking "cool" as well as "cute." He's a Mario character, too, and it's plain in his design. Whether they know his history or not, he screams mass appeal.

I just can't say this about Sephy. He's very edgy, yes, but otherwise is fairly unremarkable, especially when set aside from his history. I just don't see kids or the casual player looking at him and thinking "Heh, I like this guy. He really stands out. Ima buy him."

I never thought I'd be saying this, but Geno has far more mass appeal than someone like Sephy. Honestly, if we're going FF, Chocobo would be a more appealing pick to general audiences. Sora definitely would be. But Sephy? I don't see it.

Oh, and let's not forget...Geno still has a dedicated fanbase as well, possibly in the millions, if SMRPG's sales are anything to go by. So he's got both. He's a win for everyone.



I would be ok with this, lol. Bdee has earned a bit of spotlight, honestly.

To be fair, most of the smash fanbase is comprised of older people. That's not to say that kids won't be playing smash but this franchise is tailored towards longtime fans (definitely ambiguous with characters though). So I'm thinking DLC will be consist of characters aimed at older audiences (general audiences outside smash may consist of older people as well, seeing how SE rarely publishes games meant for kids/general family). Of course this seems like good news for Geno fans but keep in mind Sephiroth is one of Enix's few poster boys, which is one of the few things that Sephiroth possesses that Geno lacks. All in all, it wouldn't be wise to underestimate either one.

 

[Darkfur]

I'm actually pretty happy with how things are unfolding, with Geno being one of the finalists for the race of the Square slot (I still believe in the possibility of being two Square's rep, with Geno not counting as a true SE rep). Also, DQ and Sora being out of the field (probably) is a relief, I rather have Sephiroth than any of those two (but I would be sad if Geno doesn't make the cut).
If Sephiroth becomes DLC, his FS needs to be this (all it's 2 minutes of glory, spoiler ahead of course):

Actually I think a stage based on this would be much cooler. =)

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

To be fair, most of the smash fanbase is comprised of older people. That's not to say that kids won't be playing smash but this franchise is tailored towards longtime fans (definitely ambiguous with characters though). So I'm thinking DLC will be consist of characters aimed at older audiences (general audiences outside smash may consist of older people as well, seeing how SE rarely publishes games meant for kids/general family). Of course this seems like good news for Geno fans but keep in mind Sephiroth is one of Enix's few poster boys, which is one of the few things that Sephiroth possesses that Geno lacks. All in all, it wouldn't be wise to underestimate either one.

Fair point! Yes, I agree Sephy has some serious chops going for him, much more than Geno in some areas. It's just that his mostly rely on people knowing his history, which, to be fair, may not be a problem with how famous he is.

His design is pretty bland though, all things considered. Even Cloud's got a leg up in that department. And other more mature characters at least have something to draw people in--Bayo, for instance, has the sex appeal (whether you agree with it or not, people will buy into that), and the Belmonts have a unique weapon mechanic and bring horror tropes with them. Sephy doesn't have much in comparison.

But I do agree, we shouldn't count him out at all. I'm only saying things look more promising for Geno here. There's probably a reason why he was the "main" consideration and Sephy was the "backup," despite Sephy's position.

 

[GoodGrief741]

First off, love the username.

Just wanted to mention that whoever would make the bigger splash all depends on how popular Sephiroth is as a character. I am not well-versed at all with FF, so I have no idea how popular Sephiroth is in the gaming world. I'm not personally calling you out on this, but one thing I did want to point out is that Geno may be popular among us SMRPG and hardcore Smash fans, but how well known is he really outside of that? To the larger Smash Bros and Nintendo audience, there will most definitely be a lot of "who?" if Geno is announced.

Because Nintendo is selecting the DLC, we have to take ourselves out of our "Geno is popular" mindset and shift our perspective to that of a casual Smash fan, who also make up a huge amount of the audience. Will they really know Geno? Will Geno alone make him worthy of raking in mass sales? There are a lot of people out there who don't buy the DLC if they don't know who the character is.

Sephiroth is one of the great gaming villains. His popularity shouldn’t be understated.

Conversely, from my experience around these Boards, and especially the RTC thread, we shouldn’t really count on anyone but Geno fans to be okay with his inclusion. Many hardcore Smash fans share the mindset that Geno’s irrelevant and doesn’t deserve inclusion.

When they say it's the Ultimate smash game, and that they are listening to fans, it's a BIG factor. If they go Sephiroth over Geno, they are straight up not staying true to their word.

I hope eventually they start listening to fans. They haven’t been true to their word for a while now.

FF7 wasn't on a Nintendo console, and correct me if I'm wrong, but most people tend to only get one console per generation. Not saying FF7 sold poorly or something because obviously it didn't lmao. I'm just saying Cloud was already enough of a stretch to be in Smash. Yeah, it'd make FF7 fans happy, but adding fire emblem character #10 would make FE fans happy too. If Nintendo owned final fantasy, Sephiroth would already be in the game probably, but they don't.

If Sephiroth ever gets in Smash, it'll be after FF7 is announced for Switch. I don't see that happening for DLC pack 1. I could be wrong though.



I don't think that's a rule, but it's definitely a barrier. The first third party series to get two uniques is going to be an insane milestone. I can only see it going to Sonic or Mega Man, personally.

Final Fantasy 1-6 (or 1, 4 and 6 in the West) were huge with Nintendo fans, and the fact that FF7 was PlayStation exclusive led to a lot of people switching sides, so there are many Nintendo fans of the NES/SNES eras that played FF7.

@Jovahexeon Joranvexeon why are you here? This isn't the Sephiroth support thread my dude lmao.

Comments like these are why this thread gets accused of being an echo chamber. It’s pretty obvious why discussing Sephiroth is relevant to Geno’s chances.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Yeah, I love the fact that fans still carry Geno on their back for so long. I feel like that alone is one of the reasons why he should be in. No one's had this kind of traction from an old game. (SMRPG is older than Banjo and GS)

It's insane to think that Super Mario RPG is older than Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Final Fantasy VII, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi RPG, and Golden Sun.
Super Mario RPG is also about the same age as Pokémon Red and Blue, only about a month apart. The three games that kept the RPG genre up in the west... Pokémon, Super Mario RPG, and Final Fantasy VII. What in the hell would we do without them?
And Super Mario RPG itself stayed as one of our favorite games for 22 years. It just shows that games from the late '90s seem more memorable and have the spirit compared to games today. Halo hasn't been the same since Bungie left. The last great game Bungie made was Halo: Reach, and Bungie sure did make a great parting gift with that one. Gosh, I miss the good ol' days of Halo 2, Halo 3, and Reach.

However, Super Smash Brothers Ultimate is an exception because Sakurai and his team actually take time into making and doing it for the fans. This might be the only modern game that will make a great impact for me for now. Nintendo's games in general just have the spirit compared to Xbox and PlayStation; I am an Xbox and PlayStation player, and I can definitely say that Nintendo always does their games better. Super Mario World, Super Mario RPG, Pokémon, Super Mario 64, Super Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, Ocarina of Time, Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, Breath of the Wild, and Super Mario Odyssey are the reasons why Nintendo is my favorite, and why it will always be my favorite.

 

[Pristine]

Fair point! Yes, I agree Sephy has some serious chops going for him, much more than Geno in some areas. It's just that his mostly rely on people knowing his history, which, to be fair, may not be a problem with how famous he is.

His design is pretty bland though, all things considered. Even Cloud's got a leg up in that department. And other more mature characters at least have something to draw people in--Bayo, for instance, has the sex appeal (whether you agree with it or not, people will buy into that), and the Belmonts have a unique weapon mechanic and bring horror tropes with them. Sephy doesn't have much in comparison.

But I do agree, we shouldn't count him out at all. I'm only saying things look more promising for Geno here. There's probably a reason why he was the "main" consideration and Sephy was the "backup," despite Sephy's position.

Imo, smash doesn't really have a "badass edgy villain" (I assume this is why people wanted Shadow as well/for the "badass" appeal he has, I mean) so he'd be unique in that department. He's surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) not very well known to Nintendo fans, since not that many are aware of his stance elsewhere, and others not even aware that he exists. One thing I find amusing is the Sephiroth support thread being a whopping 3 pages long compared to Geno's 466, so it seems like there's still room for some recognition.

But yeah, I agree with everything else; aside from his edgy aesthetic, he doesn't really provide anything unique aside from being a much more fancy swordsman.