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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Nazyrus

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More money to be made from Smash obviously. Final Fantasy VII is a big force and one that's useful for tapping into printing money and getting it to rain into the producers' pockets.
And even if the VII Remake isn't coming to Switch (as far as we know), we do know that Smash owners that love FFVII in general and Cloud as a character would be interested in buying Sephiroth as well because next year marketing focus is gonna shift towards VII Remake, therefore everyone in gaming will know about it and FF fans would definitely spend money on Sephiroth for smash at the same time (trust me guys, us VII fans have been super dry on anything regarding VII Remake for all this time, having a second VII character in smash would surely help us pass the time as we wait for news at all lmao, therefore people will definitely buy the character).
 

Krooli

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Just got finished catching up and woah This thread blew up. First off the big bomb that was dropped really, really bodes well for Geno and that’s super hype.

Second no matter what direction you cut it Septhiroth’s sword is big and while Sakurai could totally make it work look at cloud for example, I think his animations would look kinda..off. Cloud’s sword works cause it’s also wide but Septh’s is slim it would look slightly weird and jank. Even if it didn’t I still expect Geno would be chosen over Septhiroth.

I'm going to make a big-ol theorycraft post later about Geno compiling all the evidence from the past 6 months because, you all know me, I'm absolutely meticulous when it comes to this stuff and like to dissect everything to its smallest components. The reason I'll be doing this is because, even though it took 8 years, everything I had theorycrafted about Geno in Brawl wound up being true. It was nuts and, again, it's what spurred me to rejoin the Geno Smash fanbase with this game in full force. Every seemingly tin foily theory I had back in 2006/2007 was right and I'm willing to do it again. Bottom line: things are looking good for our boy and the only thing stopping him is a final no from Square. Based on the size, I might not get to it until tomorrow...
Looking forward to that! Nice work Fatmanonice, thanks for everything you and Panda do for us.

I also think the Geno costume was Sakurai's way of proving that Geno would sell as a full fledged character. Think of it as a gentleman's bet and, based on the evidence, it's very likely that a good number of the Mii costumes were actually market research. The Mii costume was likely a chance for Sakurai to prove that Geno wasn't a literal who which is likely why the door was slammed in Sakurai's face for Brawl. Square needed hard data to show that Geno would sell Amiibo and/or DLC and this was Sakurai's gambit. Based on the fact that Geno's already in Ultimate while a number of other third party references are just flat out gone bodes well.
Lastly if it’s of any worth K. Rool was my most wanted in Smash 4 and I didn’t buy his Mii costume yet I bought Geno’s and fast forward to today and K. Rool’s in the game! So I think Geno’s costume did relatively well.

Edit: to elaborate more on the septhiroth’s animations point I’m imagining it in my head and I don’t see how he would swing that thing around like how Marth does it for example without the sword cutting himself or hitting himself.
 
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TheCJBrine

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So it might be Geno vs. Sephiroth?

Sephiroth is the bigger name, but let's see:

-Geno is tied directly to Nintendo's mascot, being a Mario character and all.

-Sakurai has stated how Geno is really popular, that he receives a lot of requests.

-Nintendo could gain potential Switch sales because of the FF games being ported to it, however in Smash they don't necessarily need Sephiroth to advertise something to non-Switch owners who would've already heard the news from friends who watched the Nintendo Direct or if they're already fans who simply just don't have a Switch yet.

-That Nintendo Treehouse guy or whoever it was, mentioned them believing fans would like the DLC, and seemed to imply that we'd get surprises. lol Sephiroth is not a surprise.

-If the SE character is first, while no plans for FF7 Remake on Switch have been announced, lol it might be too early for Sephiroth.

Now sorry if I seem anti-Sephiroth; no, however I would be uninterested in him. I'd be much more interested in the other SE characters, obviously Geno the most. I'd probably have fun playing with Sephiroth anyway, but not because of who he is tbh, instead because of how he plays.
 
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Sovereign Trinity

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Iv'e always wondered where the Geno Doll came from. I mean , Gaz literraly did an head-shot on Mario with it.

It may be crazy , but I think it was a prototype Smithy made. It's like a gun when you think about it , a gun disguised as a doll. If you think about it , this could easily be a deadly tool if they did spread it around the Mushroom Kingdom and Smithy managed to activate them all at once and create chaos.

Sure , it seem unlikely as hell , but seeing one of Smithy's creation be his downfall is pretty cool.
I'm surprised the toy factory that made the Geno doll hasn't been sued yet. The one guy that made the doll probably forgot to put the "Killing Hazard" label on Geno. Who knows? For all we know, Geno could've been made as a weapon to destroy thousands, but instead landed in the hands of a child.


That's a fan made rule though. Like he never once mentioned there cannot be two 3rd party from the same series?
Good to know that it is fan-made, but it just seems unlikely that a second unique third-party can get in. I'd be surprised if Square would be the first because they're the stingiest out of all third-parties.
 

Nazyrus

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yeah disney does own sora but they dont care if sora would be in smash they still need apporval by square thus still make him a square charachter still
Disney is the one that OWNS Sora, SE was involved in developing the game and designing the character, but disney remains the OWNER. Disney doesn't have to ask permission to anyone (and Nomura would be more than glad already to put Sora in smash as we know). It's like a company would need to ask me permission for using a design they payed me to make for THEM, they don't have to ask me for something they own the rights for already, it's their choice. I think Sora's chances are super likely considering the KH focus recently, but let's be clear SE really doesn't have the main say whatsoever on whether he gets in or not, that's disney.
 

beans

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Imagine we’re all wrong it’s neither Geno or Sephiroth and instead it’s Crono O_o.
Wouldnt be angry
Chrono Trigger is an excellent game
The only way it could be wrong is if they dont use the pendulum for the reveal
 

childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
I don't think it's a matter of crying out for a character. Did anyone cry out for Corrin? For Bayonetta? Hell even for Cloud when the belief back then was that it was an impossible thing? Nobody cried out loud the names of any of the DLC we got on Smash 4, I don't see why it should be a factor of choice for nintendo this time with Ultimate.
No, but as stated Corrin was a character who was there to advertise FE.

Apparently Bayonetta was the #1 Ballot Pick in Europe, as evidenced in her reveal trailer.

In the interview with Sakurai and Nomura, Sakurai specifically states he got several requests to include a Final Fantasy character, and iirc, he chose Cloud to represent the series as a whole. Also he was saying near the end of the DLC cycle that it would be "nothing but fan service" from there on out. (After Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy, and i think Ryu?)

Most of the names of DLC in smash 4 were actually already in development before the ballot. But now we have it, and they've been using it. He states that several times.

I also think the Geno costume was Sakurai's way of proving that Geno would sell as a full fledged character. Think of it as a gentleman's bet and, based on the evidence, it's very likely that a good number of the Mii costumes were actually market research. The Mii costume was likely a chance for Sakurai to prove that Geno wasn't a literal who which is likely why the door was slammed in Sakurai's face for Brawl. Square needed hard data to show that Geno would sell Amiibo and/or DLC and this was Sakurai's gambit. Based on the fact that Geno's already in Ultimate while a number of other third party references are just flat out gone bodes well.
^^^^^^^

Also looking at 3rd party Mii Costumes that HAVE made their way so smash and 1st party Mii Costumes being included, this makes so much sense.

I never claimed there to be more active requests for the character than Genk. But active requests aren't always what get the companies' blessings.

Before Cloud was inducted, you didn't commonly hear requests for him. But now that he's here, he made a splash and had people hoping for his return in spades.

Sonetimes the character people ask for, isn't the one that's going to sell consistently over the greatest girth of time. Plain and simple.
I didn't say you did. But Sakurai mentions multiple times they are really referring to the ballot this time around. Also given the pattern for characters making it in, I see fan demand and requests playing a huge role. As I stated earlier, Sakurai himself said Cloud got a lot of requests. I'm assuming this is before the ballot, but he said so nonetheless. True, look at Waluigi. Companies don't always grant the wishes of the people. Look at Isaac. However, everyone that Sakurai has personally wanted in Smash, has made it in. So I think points are more in Geno's favor.


say Geno gets picked, but who says that he'll be as big a consistent seller as Sephiroth? Just a bit of food for thought.
Of course, I wouldn't know. But based on Smash speculation, Smash news, looking at articles online (seriously even Red Bull and Arby's mention Geno), even all the fake leaks with Geno in them, I think it's unlikely that he would potentially undersell Sephiroth.

"Canonical" is a debatable term to address Dissidia with. Not to mention that Sephiroth's sword has fluctuated in size just as much as Ridley has.
I would concede that to you, if Nomura didn't do all the character designs for Dissidia. There's no way Nomura wouldn't know the exact measurements of a character he himself designed initially, and then returned to update that design. And a design from that very game, canon or not, was used in Smash for Cloud.

Thank goodness I never said such in the first place.
Your words:
["That's assuming that appearance includes the weaponry. And there's nothing in there suggesting he wouldn't change the weapon size to match its original size, especially since he did something similar with Ridley."]

and again:

["It's literally that easy to adapt Masamune for Smash with its original size and we have more reason to believe that Sakurai would do that as opposed to not opting for such a solution."]

Either I misinterpreted that, or you did say it lol


Oh we're not going down this road, please. Sephiroth is not characterized by that massive sword. That's right up there with the "Ridley is too big" bull trend before Ultimate laid it to rest.

When the game that's actually confirmed canon(as of the remake, the extra baggage of the FFVII compilation isn't regarded as such anymore) has it at a more at a more manageable size, yeah it is.

Also, who's really going to raise a stink about his sword still being long, but not super long? Casual fans likely wouldn't notice nor really care since arguably they wouldn't really dive into the expanded universe, and core fans majority speaking, don't care for the FFVII compilation and would know that his sword actually was more manageable in the original game, so no one in massive majority is really going to cry foul at that.
lmaoooo what let's not act like Sephiroth is completely super unique outside of Murasame. That's like...if Mario didn't have the mustache. Sephiroth has a really long sword. In game, he's the only one who can use it. It's special.

And technically yes, Ridley was too big. Sakurai had to scale him down to make him fit in the game. Thats a fact. Look at Ridley in Smash 4 and look at Ridley in Ultimate. Sakurai likes to keep the essence of characters which is why Ridley wasn't in 4. All I'm saying is that it's Sakurai's preference, not that he wouldn't do it.

No one would really raise a stink, it's just a sword that long is really concerning for "Sephiroth is gonna be broken" reasons, and the team would have to do more work to make sure he's balanced properly. Casual fans likely wouldn't care as long as the character isn't broken and is fun to play, but we just went over how Sakurai is very detailed when he makes characters. I just see it as more work for the team, when Geno would not be the case. (gotta bring it back to Geno!)

I think the fact that we pretty much got told by Sakurai during the November direct, stuff pertaining to such, is info enough.
Nooooo idea what you mean, but okay.
 

Nazyrus

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Imagine we’re all wrong it’s neither Geno or Sephiroth and instead it’s Crono O_o.
I will genuinely be pleased with almost any SE character, just not DQ. And no, i do not dislike DQ… I just don't think it's by any means the best choice for selling a DLC character when it's a franchise that is mostly beloved in japan and the rest of the world doesn't really amount a big number of people that would buy the character, in comparison to the other SE characters we've heard of. Hell Crono is definitely the best rpg game aside from mario rpg on the SNES, it's still a great rep from that console era.
 

MattX20

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The main issue that will probably plague Sephiroth from being playable is not just the whole balancing problem, it's also the rights for the music, especially One Winged Angel. If negotiations were that tough to get Cloud in along with the two tracks from before, I imagine it would be hellish just to get an additional 2+ tracks for Sephiroth and a stage to go along with him. SE and Nintendo would probably think it more financially beneficial to just have Yoko Shimomura do the Super Mario RPG tracks again since she is already on board.
 

Fatmanonice

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Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the alleged scenario that it's coming down to Square Enix's biggest villain versus the Nintendo underdog? As a Geno fan of two decades, I wouldn't have it any other way. This is definitely the best timeline. Quick, someone with actual artistic talent make this fight into an animation!

 

TheCJBrine

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Tbh all characters will sell decently, even if they're "who?" characters, especially since a bunch of people will be buying the Fighters' Pass, maybe even each character individually if they didn't realize there was a pass (a lot of fans tend to get each character just to have them all, don't they? plus, there's the tournaments and stuff~)

About the pass, though, I hope they sell it separately on the eShop once the game releases, because I'm already getting the physical release...
 
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Nazyrus

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Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the alleged scenario that it's coming down to Square Enix's biggest villain versus the Nintendo underdog? As a Geno fan of two decades, I wouldn't have it any other way. This is definitely the best timeline. Quick, someone with actual artistic talent make this fight into an animation!

yeah to me the only bad timeline is getting a DQ character over Geno or Sephiroth (or even over Crono). I'm definitely hyped to see which one it will be. I pray for Geno because of his fans. I don't think im a huge fan but I definitely liked him when I played the game last month, but I definitely would love the guy, I already liked his look and moveset idea and when i heard a brief concept behind his story months ago.
 

childishgamgeno

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Geno: JUST PUT HIM IN
Look, I know that Geno gets a lot of talk. But until we see actual numbers or get word from Nintendo, we'll never know how much this is the case or if he really did score as high in the votes.

Sure, the mii costume is a good indicator, but not bullet proof, especially since Sakurai has admitted to being a huge fan of Geno already.
Right, and thats why I think Geno is more likely. Sephiroth, with all his popularity as you mentioned, could've been our costume. But he wasn't. He wasn't even the second FF Costume. It was Chocobo.

Yes we do. It's literally coming to the Switch next year along with IX and X's duology.

Highly debatable. Look past the game and at the characters themselves with the fan appeal. There's no written rule that a game can't double dip with its reps third party wise. Past all of that, you've still got an insanely popular character eli everyone and their mom knows in Sephorith.
As I've stated before, VIII is coming to switch, but does it need additionally advertising? Cloud's already Smash. Do they need another VIII rep?
But that's also debatable. Given the facts, Smash doesn't do this with 3rd parties unless the other character is an Echo. (Ryu and Ken, Simon and Richter).

Not really, especially if Square were too lazy to farm out for another IP and are intentionally putting more FFVII music locked behind the DLC toll booth for more money.

Wish granted as of September this year.

Dude, I can tell you for a fact, that Sephy was way more than just NT backing him.

He's constantly been big news ever since his debut. He's gotten spots in crossovers notable like Kingdom Hearts. The Final Fantasy VII compilation, tie ins, merchandise, etc. He has a lot under his belt. Sadly, more so than Geno.
Yes. Constantly big news under his belt, but not recently. He wasn't shown off anywhere in KH3 or it's other spin offs. His last appearance in the franchise was KH2 which was like 10 years ago. And thats just only revenue for Square. That doesn't help Nintendo out at all. Geno benefits both companies.

As of recently? He's only been in Dissidia.



I honestly don't mind debating Sephy's and Geno's chances. Helps me keep things in perspective and weigh different scenarios.
 
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*Verrix*

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If Geno does make it in Smash, it's guaranteed that I will make a comic by hand. I have the perfect ending for Gaz if Geno does make it in Smash.
I was thinking about making a sprite comic about Cloud meeting Geno for the first time, but I'll only do these two if Geno makes it. It wouldn't work if Geno didn't make it because it he isn't in as a newcomer.

I actually have a Smithy drawing that I'm currently working on right now. And yeah, I do plan on posting it in here when I'm done, or I could just DM it to anyone who wants to see. Hopefully it'll turn out to be badass like I want it to be.
I would like to see it when it's finished! Hopefully you'll post it for all of us to see!
 

Datboigeno

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Sephiroth is way far from an echo. Zack Fair is Cloud’s echo not Sephiroth. His moves are extremely different, and you would be surprised how many people do want Sephiroth. Would some people be mad at his inclusion, sure. However there would also be many who would be happy with his inclusion. You have to remember Sephiroth is one of the biggest FF villains of all time. And one of the biggest villains of all time. There are people who haven’t even played FF7 and still know who he is. It would be a good marketing move on both Nintendo’s and Square’s part to include him, as he is extremely well known. I did a poll on a google thread on which villain people preferred the choices were Akuma, Heihachi, Big Boss, Vergil and Sephiroth. Out of those choices Sephiroth beat all the contenders by a huge margin. So I would not dismiss his over all popularity so easily.

Here is more information on Sephiroth and his move sets.

Maybe you should discuss this on the Sephiroth thread.
 

A.G.L.

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Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the alleged scenario that it's coming down to Square Enix's biggest villain versus the Nintendo underdog? As a Geno fan of two decades, I wouldn't have it any other way. This is definitely the best timeline. Quick, someone with actual artistic talent make this fight into an animation!

Ironically one of Sephiroth’s quotes is the following, it’s almost like he’s talking to Geno.

You are just a puppet……
You have no heart……and cannot
feel any pain……”
“How can there be any meaning in the
memory of such a being?”
“What I have shown you is reality.
What you remember,
that is the illusion.”
 

Nazyrus

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I will definitely suggest taking the whole SE name list situation the most chill way possible in case it's not the first DLC character we get announced… in just case like, we get Banjo Kazooie confirmed first for now or something. I pray the SE one is the first one to be confirmed just for the sake of getting the situation out of the way tho (and I feel SE would want their character to be announced first to avoid leaks as well anyway).
 

SSGuy

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yeah disney does own sora but they dont care if sora would be in smash they still need apporval by square thus still make him a square charachter still
Disney doesn't care if something is being used, but Disney sure does care about the cost or how the cost of something is being distributed. PR gibberish isn't a for certain sign that a character is happening.
 

Pristine

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Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the alleged scenario that it's coming down to Square Enix's biggest villain versus the Nintendo underdog? As a Geno fan of two decades, I wouldn't have it any other way. This is definitely the best timeline. Quick, someone with actual artistic talent make this fight into an animation!

Funny you should mention, Sephiroth and Geno are underdogs in their own right, one because Sephiroth is nowhere near as desired as Geno. On the other hand, Geno isn't as iconic a video game character as Sephiroth.
 

MajoraMan28

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You know what would be insane?
A CGI trailer featuring both of them revealed. We have a party of three being Mario, Link and Cloud in the middle of the forest.
Something seems to be coming up to them, it's enemies from their series, and Geno comes shooting them down. His gameplay is shown, we have him doing his victory animation, things get darker as if the trailer is ending, but actually it's a shadow looming over him. It's Sephiroth coming down with the sword like in FFVII (I crie evrytiem ;_; ). Cloud pushes him over, and gets stabbed in the middle of the chest. He is raised, just like in FFVII, and under the sounds of OWA, we get him glaring at Mario, Link and Geno, as his gameplay footage is shown.
At the end he grows his dark angel wing and dashes one more time to them as the trailer ends.

Quite hype, huh?
 

EarlTamm

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Funny you should mention, Sephiroth and Geno are underdogs in their own right, one because Sephiroth is nowhere near as desired as Geno. On the other hand, Geno isn't as iconic a video game character as Sephiroth.
And if you think about it, I doubt Sephiroth did well on the ballot, considering that he was likely not the first FFVII rep people would vote for.
 

Kuon

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To me, only Erdrick is of interest. The rest would be a waste, tbh.
DQ is one of the greatest classics in NES and SNES gaming, with great characters, plot and music. Don't throw this out because it might dethrone something you wanted. A lot of people went to Fire Emblem bc of Smash and fell in love with it. Same can be said about DQ. I for one know that the majority of the western Nintendo fanbase today has no idea of how good the games are, and aren't willing to give it a chance because there wasn't motivation for it.
I got Dragon Quest 11 when it came out back in September and I've been enjoying it a lot. The characters and story are all great, but the gameplay is lakcing a bit. More people should check it out
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Imagine getting a reveal at the VGA; but it's Bandanna Dee. Someone who gives no evidence to any of the current leaks. And we have to wait with baited breath for DLC two lmao.
 

MajoraMan28

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And if you think about it, I doubt Sephiroth did well on the ballot, considering that he was likely not the first FFVII rep people would vote for.
He was one of the Top 20, wasn't he? I remember seeing the results with his name there, though.
In Japan he did fairly well, and he also has a considerable Western following
https://imgtc.com/i/COf52oG.jpg
 
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MajoraMan28

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I got Dragon Quest 11 when it came out back in September and I've been enjoying it a lot. The characters and story are all great, but the gameplay is lakcing a bit. More people should check it out
DQXI is amazing, but Luminary doesn't represent DQ like Erdrick does (even with the game's ending).
But yeah, people definitely should check it out
 

Ze Diglett

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He was one of the Top 20, wasn't he? I remember seeing the results with his name there, though.
In Japan he did fairly well, and he also has a considerable Western following
I never even heard Sephiroth's name brought up in the context of Smash until this Square Enix name list came out. To me, that's telling of how requested he is, or rather, how requested he isn't.
 

timbo8

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i understand if dq makes it in but im sorry after what happened with Koichi Sugiyama yeah good luck getting music
 

MajoraMan28

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I never even heard Sephiroth's name brought up in the context of Smash until this Square Enix name list came out. To me, that's telling of how requested he is, or rather, how requested he isn't.
I guess you weren't part of the Brawl modding scene back in the day. People already were asking for the two characters from FFVII way back then.
And honestly he may not have been the priority for people's choices, but he was a wanted character. And again, I think he did well on the Ballot, from what I was informed.
 
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Pristine

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I never even heard Sephiroth's name brought up in the context of Smash until this Square Enix name list came out. To me, that's telling of how requested he is, or rather, how requested he isn't.
Well in the end, it's all Square's decision on who they're inclined to put in as DLC, they're not like Nintendo where they look at ballots, and they're surprisingly more interested in the quality of the character/any attachments they might have rather than raw sales alone (seeing as how we have no Tomb Raider content despite it actually having outsold FFVII). So I don't think looking at ballots/requests is that great a indicator on a character's chances when it comes to DLC.
 
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Kuon

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DQXI is amazing, but Luminary doesn't represent DQ like Erdrick does (even with the game's ending).
But yeah, people definitely should check it out
Yeah, Erdwin's name keeps popping up, especially towards the end.
And he appears in the cutscenes
So I think he's more likely than the Luminary, since the story seems to be more about Erdwin than the Luminary
 

Datboigeno

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Well in the end, it's all Square's decision on who they're inclined to put in as DLC, they're not like Nintendo where they look at ballots, and they're surprisingly more interested in the quality of the character/any attachments they might have rather than raw sales alone (seeing as how we have no Tomb Raider content despite it actually having outsold FFVII). So I don't think looking at ballots/requests is that great a indicator on a character's chances when it comes to DLC.
This is just you making up random assumptions about what Square is thinking though. And they obviously did look at the ballot/requests considering Cloud was a huge meme prior to his inclusion in 4. There’s no way Nintendo didn’t inform them that Geno places well on the ballot and/or that his costume sold well. There’s no other reason why he’d be in the same conversation as Sephiroth.
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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yeah to me the only bad timeline is getting a DQ character over Geno or Sephiroth (or even over Crono). I'm definitely hyped to see which one it will be. I pray for Geno because of his fans. I don't think im a huge fan but I definitely liked him when I played the game last month, but I definitely would love the guy, I already liked his look and moveset idea and when i heard a brief concept behind his story months ago.
It's ironic really. A hero fo DQ would represent and benefit a terrible person (the composer) while Geno (not so ironic) or Sephiroth, the biggest bads ever would be the better timeline.
VIII is coming to switch
No it isn't.
Either I misinterpreted that
Yeah, that's the case. No worries fam.
But Sakurai mentions multiple times they are really referring to the ballot this time around.
He was talking about his own tactics and what was being done for the base game. Not necessarily for the DLC which is being run by Nintendo.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I just remembered that Polar said if he get's info on the VGA; we'll hear one or two days beforehand.... the VGA's are two days away.
 
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