Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[AugustusB]

So something interesting just got announced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1067444243650699264?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://d-9325461091631945510.ampproject.net/1811202257200/frame.html

Apparently the Video Game Awards is going to have 10 game announcements and updates on existing titles...

We may get something.

EDIT: Let's keep hype in check, but this looks good for a dlc reveal.

 

[DaxMasterix]

So something interesting just got announced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1067444243650699264?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://d-9325461091631945510.ampproject.net/1811202257200/frame.html

Apparently the Video Game Awards is going to have 10 game announcements and updates on existing titles...

We may get something.

What.
What is this feeling, running on my veins..

 

[Datboigeno]

So something interesting just got announced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1067444243650699264?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://d-9325461091631945510.ampproject.net/1811202257200/frame.html

Apparently the Video Game Awards is going to have 10 game announcements and updates on existing titles...

We may get something.

Hopefully Dorito Pope blesses us with Geno this year

 

[childishgamgeno]

that would explain why sakurai chose to interpret it as a gun barrel in the mii costume.

LMAOOOOOOO iliterally laughed at loud at this, and all you guys responses haha

I can definitely say that Sakurai never said that, because he didn’t. It could still be true, and it could also be false, but that doesn’t change that he never said that.

I’m currently expecting option number 3 to be the one that pans out, but as somebody who was really let down by the last Direct and 17% of character selection, I’m really hoping it’s actually 2. But if Sakurai is out of touch, I don’t know how Nintendo can be in touch.



It would be awesome if Nintendo saw the reaction to Grinch Leak and said ‘Oh ****, we got our reaction already, let’s just do this!’. But if that were to happen, who’d be the sixth character cut? Shadow due to Echoes not being DLC? Mach Rider for being the more niche, and thus the least expected to sell?

Also, if having the actual ballot in their hands didn’t make a dent in base game, I doubt reactions to a fake leak would make any difference in Nintendo’s mind.

Okay cool. Up for interpretation. Sure. I'm gonna interpret it as a list tho. Because it's a selection.

Again, I don't really think Sakurai is out of touch. Nintendo CAN be in touch, it's whether or not they choose to utilize it is the key. Whatever that means I guess lol. I'm kind of hoping it's two as well, as it would make Nintendo seem more catering to fans than "business opportunites".

I would actually love that. But instead of Isaac they just make Matthew, and cut Shadow. (Honestly I could do without Mach Rider as well tbh, but if anything that would be the Vifam model.)

Short of a straight up announcement or leak, is there any event or hint that would make y’all believe Geno definitely is or isn’t in the game at this point?

Also, what would his alt colors be? Based on Pikachu and Pac-Man I’m assuming the cape has to stay its signature blue.

Mannnnnn if Sakurai (or even that Nintendo Versus/Smash Twitter) so much as retweeted that NoA post of SMRPG, I'd be sure he's a lock. Or even if he expanded on the NoJ selection like "This time around, Nintendo preferred to pick more fan-requested characters as well as referring to the ballot" I would be absolutely sure.

Conversely, if he posted a picture with Akira Toriyama, id be sure he wasn't in hahaha.

I think there's been a few ideas around this thread in pictures for how his Alts would go.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Geno Beam literally has a small wand pop out of his hand. Not a SAW machine gun.



Do you think Geno should take inspiration from a giant robot with a machine gun?

Not the giant robot, the gun it wields. The Vifam gun works like a beam, and Geno's hand-gun also uses a beam.
LOL, it's not a wand, literally two of his weapons in the game has "gun" in it.

Finger Shot - Description: "Fingers shoot bullets!"
Hand Gun - Description: "It packs a kick!" (Bullets from hand)
Double Punch - Description: "A handy double rocket punch."
Hand Cannon Description: "Shoots bullets from elbow!" (Fires shotgun shells from the elbow)
Star Gun - Description "Try shooting stars!" (Shoots star bullets from his hand-guns)

These are the weapons' descriptions in the official game, they don't sound like they're describing wands at all, only weapons that shoot like a gun. Shouldn't he be swishing and flicking his wand like Harry Potter? If he had a wand, he'd be holding it and moving it before attacking, but it doesn't even look like he's holding it, I mean, his gun literally comes out of his hand, how could he hold it? With his other hand, but he's not holding it with his other hand while attacking. I've got no clue why Geno's weapons in the manual don't look like his weapons in game, but still, it's a gun. Sakurai even knows he's got a gun for an arm.

Do you remember these wizard dudes?

They swish with their hand to use magic, but that's what Geno would do if he had a wand. He doesn't have a wand, otherwise he would've pulled it out and showed it in battle.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

What.
What is this feeling, running on my veins..

It's called:
Geno Time.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Hey guys, remember the other day, when someone on here posted the GameFAQs discussion about Saiki Kusuo, a guy who allegedly works for Nintendo talking about leaks? I kind of kept the page open and like 4 days ago he said something interesting:


When asked about fun trivia for Ballot and Smash 4:

[" 2) Was not around for Smash 4 prerelease stuff. So all the stuff I can tell you about that came from other people who were around at that time. The ESRB leak was a huge source of contention for staff when that sprouted up. NDA's had to be reevaluated and signed and someone even told me a mandatory training session for Non-Disclosure was forced. The guy was found pretty quickly due to how he caught footage of the game. I don't know anyone who had access to the ballot. Would assume that's something Nintendo of Japan possesses. "]

If this is to be believed, it is likely that NoJ has access to the ballot. Not to say they never did, but I feel like everyone thought that since NoJ picked the DLC, it decreased Geno's chances, but what if it didnt? NoJ would without a doubt know of Geno's presence in the ballot and also the most popular characters that placed there. Wouldn't it make sense to choose characters they know everyone wants, and thus, will purchase? Hmmmm...

Also, Sakurai tweeted this yesterday:

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1067227575473254402
My phone translated it horribly, but it says something along the lines of companies contributing art to celebrate the countdown to smash and so far Monster Hunter (for Rathalos) and Konami (for Simon and Richter) have done so. I wonder what SE is gonna do...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hey guys, remember the other day, when someone on here posted the GameFAQs discussion about Saiki Kusuo, a guy who allegedly works for Nintendo talking about leaks? I kind of kept the page open and like 4 days ago he said something interesting:


When asked about fun trivia for Ballot and Smash 4:

[" 2) Was not around for Smash 4 prerelease stuff. So all the stuff I can tell you about that came from other people who were around at that time. The ESRB leak was a huge source of contention for staff when that sprouted up. NDA's had to be reevaluated and signed and someone even told me a mandatory training session for Non-Disclosure was forced. The guy was found pretty quickly due to how he caught footage of the game. I don't know anyone who had access to the ballot. Would assume that's something Nintendo of Japan possesses. "]

If this is to be believed, it is likely that NoJ has access to the ballot. Not to say they never did, but I feel like everyone thought that since NoJ picked the DLC, it decreased Geno's chances, but what if it didnt? NoJ would without a doubt know of Geno's presence in the ballot and also the most popular characters that placed there. Wouldn't it make sense to choose characters they know everyone wants, and thus, will purchase? Hmmmm...

Also, Sakurai tweeted this yesterday:

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1067227575473254402
My phone translated it horribly, but it says something along the lines of companies contributing art to celebrate the countdown to smash and so far Monster Hunter (for Rathalos) and Konami (for Simon and Richter) have done so. I wonder what SE is gonna do...

Probably nothing, honestly

It's Square afterall

Edit: I also think you linked the wrong tweet

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

To be fair though, I think I did find an image with Geno using a wand

View attachment 180385

From Super Mario Kun, so it's not a canon source

Hey, that's pretty neat. Good find. But look closely, the ball at the end is the source of the beam. Also, that could just be his hand-gun coming out of his arm. It's a bad angle, but I don't think this drawing is even made by the same person who designed Geno, so they decided to do their own weaponry design for Geno and make it look like he's holding something; Yukio must've thought he had a wand or something. The Super Mario-kun drawer is Yukio Sawada, and they did not make Geno's design, so he saw something different. Other than that, Geno in Super Mario-kun looks so adorable.

Same here TBH, and I thought his nose was a lip.

HA, I still keep seeing Geno's nose as his lip. I always thought Geno was some pissed off doll, but because of the shading, it was hard to see his mouth. If the shading was gone from his render, then I can totally see the mouth and ignore his nose being a lip. lol

 

[childishgamgeno]

Edit: I also think you linked the wrong tweet

Are you sure? When I click it, it’s the tweet I intended to link

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Are you sure? When I click it, it’s the tweet I intended to link

Maybe it's the right one, it just translated really weird

 

[childishgamgeno]

Maybe it's the right one, it just translated really weird

Oh yeah, it translates horribly. lmao

 

[GoodGrief741]

Don't forget; we already have Isaac in assist trophy hell; so we don't even necessarily cut Mach Rider.

Methinks if Nintendo wants a character for DLC, and the DLC plan was made recently, they’ll tell Sakurai to add the character no matter what their status is in the game.

They can just point at the Chromz if Sakurai says anything.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, lol.

Geno can't be in smash because of a png

But Chrom can be both playable AND in Robin's final smash?

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Yeah, lol.

Geno can't be in smash because of a png

But Chrom can be both playable AND in Robin's final smash?

He even appears in Robin's completion screen and is a Mii costume. XD
Edit: and he's a png just like Geno as well lol.

 

[Lime3037]

Glad to know others also saw Geno's nose as his lip. During Brawl speculation, when I was a gullible high school Freshman, I thought Geno was grumpy or similar to Shadow the Hedgehog (ie, 2edgy4U, dood). It didn't help that until actually playing the game 3 years later (unlike when I was 6 and just jumped around), my biggest introduction to Geno was Smash Kingdom, where he was portrayed as an arrogant, vulgar *******. (Never been a fan of Newgrounds-style humor in the first place...)
Thank goodness I was wrong, because Geno's a nice, humble star spirit, and an awesome character.

Anyway, I don't want to get my hopes up for the VGA's, as I honestly don't usually care about them, but if there IS Smash news, I will buy 10 packs of Doritos and a 24-Pack of Mountain Dew in celebration.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Holy cow, keeping up with this thread is tiresome. At this rate, we're gonna beat the Brawl thread before the game comes out!

I take umbrage with the idea that any random DQ character would definitively be seen as "more profitable" than Geno by Nintendo and/or Square Enix. Even before taking raw sales numbers into account, in order for a DQ rep to even happen, Nintendo would need to pay licensing fees to and split DLC/amiibo profits between upwards of 5 different parties. I'm no financial expert, but that doesn't sound very profitable to me, on either Nintendo or Square Enix's end. And then there's the common preconception that Geno's hypothetical sales would somehow pale in comparison to those of a DQ character, when I really don't see that happening. The only region where I can see a DQ rep's sales topping Geno's would be in Japan, and even then, I think it'd be a close race given that Geno, believe it or not, is a popular character over there. (And in higher demand than any Dragon Quest character, at that, if Japanese regional polls are anything to go by.) Otherwise, any DQ character bar Slime is arguably even more obscure than Geno on a global scale; at least the latter has a solid presence on social media, fanart, and the casual and hardcore Smash community. When's the last time you heard someone bring up Erdrick outside the context of Smash? Exactly.

And it's not like this talk of sales even matters that much, anyway; the truth of the matter is that even if people absolutely hate it, Smash DLC is gonna sell gangbusters no matter what. Face it, if we already have people lining up to play as a literal potted plant, the Smash fanbase will buy anyone as long as they look cool and fun to play. If anything, the only people who actually give a rat's *** about who gets in at this point are, guess who, the hardcore Smash fans, i.e. us. Nintendo doesn't have to prove anything to the casual fans, and they know that to the point where they're inviting people to blindly pay up front for DLC we know next to nothing about, and guess what? People are doing it! At this point, they could add Sandbag as a playable fighter and he'd probably sell better than 90% of Smash 4's DLC. So really, all this sales talk is kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, if you ask me. And I don't buy that they'd add a Dragon Quest character to try and get the West hooked on DQ, either. They've already tried getting the West interested in DQ countless times, one of which was by bundling it together with THE Super Mario, and even that didn't work. Besides, it's not like it's Nintendo's responsibility to promote Dragon Quest anyhow, nor do they really have anything to gain from doing such a thing other than maybe getting good with Square Enix so they can become corporate bedfellows like the good ol' days.

To loop this back around to Verg's Square Seven, I don't see the other non-Geno characters as particularly likely. Sephiroth in particular screams leak-bait to me; I know if I were Square Enix and I had to think of a character name to catch leakers, Sephiroth would probably be the first one to come to mind. Sora's not super likely for reasons already stated in this thread countless times, and apparently he isn't happening regardless. Crono would be a... strange pick, considering he bears all the same problems as us - mainly being an irrelevant retro pick with little to no external marketing potenial - minus the years of fan support that we have. Simply put, if they're willing to take a chance on an obscure "literal who" like Crono, I don't see why they wouldn't just fold and go for Geno at that point, especially considering he'd probably sell better by all accounts. I'm not ruling anybody out just yet, but I still think we're in the lead in this hypothetical race, and by a pretty considerable distance at that.

This. Could not have said it better myself. And I've tried, lol.

I don't blame him. After all, when I was a kid I believed Geno's lock of hair was his nose.

I thought I was the only one!! Even weirder? I also thought his eye was a grin. Like, his teeth.

Freaking squidgy SMRPG sprites...

Edit:

Anyway, I don't want to get my hopes up for the VGA's, as I honestly don't usually care about them, but if there IS Smash news, I will buy 10 packs of Doritos and a 24-Pack of Mountain Dew in celebration.

Well get ready bro, cause I've got a feeling (hope) you're gonna get pretty jacked up on Mountain Dew...

 

[paper roxy]

i really want a mario rpg remake in the art style of the 3DS mario and luigi games ;v;

on another topic, im probably gonna start collecting amiibo again if the dlc characters arent lame for ultimate. how many amiibo do you guys have and whats your guys' favorite? i have 25 if i remember right, and atm my favorite is either ness or lucas

 

[Lime3037]

i really want a mario rpg remake in the art style of the 3DS mario and luigi games ;v;

on another topic, im probably gonna start collecting amiibo again if the dlc characters arent lame for ultimate. how many amiibo do you guys have and whats your guys' favorite? i have 25 if i remember right, and atm my favorite is either ness or lucas

I have way too many of them. Not every single one, though.
I like the ones of characters with few merchandise, namely Captain Falcon and Little Mac. Also, Wario's Smash 4 amiibo is really well crafted.

If Geno gets an amiibo, I will try and buy it day 1. Thinking about it, it'd be the toy version of a toy!

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

i really want a mario rpg remake in the art style of the 3DS mario and luigi games ;v;

on another topic, im probably gonna start collecting amiibo again if the dlc characters arent lame for ultimate. how many amiibo do you guys have and whats your guys' favorite? i have 25 if i remember right, and atm my favorite is either ness or lucas

I've got 26, most of them Smash Amiibo. My favorite's easy, though:

Such a good boi.

...I'd really, REALLY like a Geno Amiibo, though...

 

[Ze Diglett]

i really want a mario rpg remake in the art style of the 3DS mario and luigi games ;v;

on another topic, im probably gonna start collecting amiibo again if the dlc characters arent lame for ultimate. how many amiibo do you guys have and whats your guys' favorite? i have 25 if i remember right, and atm my favorite is either ness or lucas

I have a couple myself, mostly my mains and secondaries from Smash 4 plus a couple special ones I collected for collection's sake. My favorite's probably the R.O.B. amiibo, not only because it just looks insanely good for an amiibo, but also because I actually own a R.O.B. myself, so I can do stupid stuff like this:

Spoiler

R.O.B. is basically my permanent R.O.B. amiibo holder.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

i really want a mario rpg remake in the art style of the 3DS mario and luigi games ;v;

on another topic, im probably gonna start collecting amiibo again if the dlc characters arent lame for ultimate. how many amiibo do you guys have and whats your guys' favorite? i have 25 if i remember right, and atm my favorite is either ness or lucas

While I don't necessarily collect amiibo, I would love to get some more! The only ones I have are a BoTW Zelda and SSB4 Palutena (got her because it was only like $2 when my Toys "R" Us was closing).

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm still not holding my breath for the VGAs for any kind of Smash announcement. Nintendo has had other stuff sitting on a low boil for a long time that I think would be more appropriate. I still say 50-50 on Metroid Prime 4 or Bayonetta 3.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

True on all counts. DQ could have totally different implications when it comes to smash as opposed to a port. Instead of porting a whole game you would just be adding a character with assets. However I feel like it would be easier to just move a game over to a classic system that was already released on one of your old platforms than get new assets for a fighter.

The classic was used to bridge Wii U and Switch which is interesting because it feels to me like that means it’s trying to introduce older titles to my only us, the nostalgia generation, but a new generation. Like “these are the games that made us what we are”. I see what you mean by variables tho. But do you think it’s more likely SMRPG for more fans that way than by when it first came out? (Where Nintendo hoped you had to buy the game IF you did ) now it’s just included in one big package.

Speaking of that interview, Reggie said Sakurai was “well into development”. If the team hadn’t started developing until after the list was complete they’d only be developing for 9 days...is that considered “well into development”? Hmm...

In the scenario we get a DQ character in Smash, I think it would be telling of the effort they're willing to go to for Smash versus the Classic line. That's a much bigger decision in developing something new between companies versus a couple of ROMs thrown on to a plug and play console. Square Enix already has quite the presence on the SNES Classic, so I could see that being a lower priority if it's going to be complicated just to get a ROM on the system you've already got a ton of enticing stuff on.

This is probably my cynic speaking, but I have quite the different conception of the Classic line of systems. I see them as crash grabs at a time when Nintendo needed another source of revenue that was reliable enough for the transition period until the Switch succeeded. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, so I would almost guarantee that they were counting on that to push some nice sales to add to their fiscal year reports since all they had to do was manufacture the console itself and that was their cost. Obviously it's a loving cash grab that I bought without hesitation, but a cash grab all the same. I just don't think they care moving forward about the classic systems. They served their purpose, time to put all the energy behind the Switch.

Here's my point about the third party characters: they all reflect the nature of their games, basically being a walking summary of their franchise. Snake is tactical explosives and stealth. Sonic is extreme speed that can be tough to control. Megaman is mostly his Robot Master weapons, a tool for any situation. Pac-Man is 20 classic arcade games in one. Ryu and Ken are traditional fighting games with traditional inputs. Cloud is turn based moves and having to wait to use stronger moves. Bayo is fancy combo chains and skin of teeth dodges. Simon and Richter are using a full tool kit to keep monsters away, with weapons specialized for specific distances. They all feature unique mechanics from their respective games. Again, they are summaries of their franchises to the point that you'd get the core ideas of their franchise. I want to know how Dragon Quest would do this and be unique to the roster despite even DQ fans admitting that it's "high fantasy RPGs without the bells and whistles. No envelope pushing, just your standard JRPG system."

I just don't know if it matters how much Dragon Quest is envelope pushing. All of the third parties so far (With the exceptions of Bayonetta and Snake for their own specific reasons) have quite large legacies that relate to Nintendo and then they're characters were chosen to be good representatives of the franchise. I just get the sense that the third party franchise is chosen first and then Sakurai figures out the most popular representative and best way to give to make that franchise's representation as unique as possible. DQ might not bring much objectively new, but I'm sure Sakurai could figure out something to make them a little more interesting if need be and I also just don't see that priority reflected as first and foremost with regards to choosing third party representatives. I mean look at Final Fantasy, he decided he wanted a rep in the game, then chose a more popular classic character, then made his moveset unique. I think we could see a very similar situation if he decides to go for DQ.

See now that is true. They could honestly get rid of both Mach and Shadow if they did react to the leak like we are imagining. Especially if they wanted slots for promotion.

Yet the Ballot did have SOME presence in base. King K. Rool is proof of that and with how much love he got for having a pretty neat moveset and music to boot, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for having the ballot used for DLC.

But who knows for sure?

EDIT: Oh returning Veterans HAD to have been on the ballot as well. Forgot about that lol.

I was about to say. I think the ballot had an absolutely massive impact on Ultimate, and fan service in general has been paid attention to all around. The stage selection is made around given almost everyone their fan favorites. He's including an adventure mode again. Classic has been made more interesting. The interface has become much more manageable and user friendly with lots of QoL changes. A mode in which stocks are different characters is available. And finally characters.

Everyone is here was a big deal for a reason. Like a significantly high portion of character requests belonged to the cut veterans. Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers all placed super highly. Roy, Lucas, and Mewtwo all had similar outcrys before they were announced as DLC. Even Pichu and Young Link had not-insignificant numbers with regards to requests. I think it became clear to Sakurai people did not want cuts, and that became his main goal as the ballot helped reflect that.

Plus add in the likes of King K Rool, Ridley, and Inkling, all of whom had some major ballot presence as well, and I'd say fan service/the ballot didn't just have SOME presence, but was the primary motivator for most of the decisions in the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be fair though, I think I did find an image with Geno using a wand

View attachment 180385

From Super Mario Kun, so it's not a canon source

As a guy who follows French manga releases, I can confirm that in regards to the order of the series' adaptations, this game was initially completely skipped over and not started yet in favor of Super Mario 64. When the hell does it even come up anyway?

Also, DKC2 was almost completely skipped over so far as I can see, but that's besides the point.

It would be awesome if Nintendo saw the reaction to Grinch Leak and said ‘Oh ****, we got our reaction already, let’s just do this!’. But if that were to happen, who’d be the sixth character cut? Shadow due to Echoes not being DLC? Mach Rider for being the more niche, and thus the least expected to sell?

Also, if having the actual ballot in their hands didn’t make a dent in base game, I doubt reactions to a fake leak would make any difference in Nintendo’s mind.

Mach Rider, since I suppose they'd be too tricky to implement driving around constantly for now.

Besides, it takes years for them to sift through poll results (the old Brawl poll is barely getting finished, and two of the only three characters on it left are ATs, IIRC), so who's to say the ballot won't take two or three games to clean up?

I'm still not holding my breath for the VGAs for any kind of Smash announcement. Nintendo has had other stuff sitting on a low boil for a long time that I think would be more appropriate. I still say 50-50 on Metroid Prime 4 or Bayonetta 3.

As a guy who wants a SM3DW port, I hope the TGA doesn't amount to this:

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Methinks if Nintendo wants a character for DLC, and the DLC plan was made recently, they’ll tell Sakurai to add the character no matter what their status is in the game.

They can just point at the Chromz if Sakurai says anything.

Making statements like this trying to guess what happens behind the scenes and using that as your argument is so ****ing stupid it hurts my brain just reading it

 

[astralAenigma]

As a guy who follows French manga releases, I can confirm that in regards to the order of the series' adaptations, this game was initially completely skipped over and not started yet in favor of Super Mario 64. When the hell does it even come up anyway?

Also, DKC2 was almost completely skipped over so far as I can see, but that's besides the point.

Well, I've done some research about this, and the SMRPG arc apparently shows up... in volume 50. It was released in 2015, which is a bit odd?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, I've done some research about this, and the SMRPG arc apparently shows up... in volume 50. It was released in 2015, which is a bit odd?

No kidding...then again I'm not surprised, given that Sawada has a habit of frequently restarting story arcs.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

astralAenigma Your Geno pic reminds of this Spongebob scene lol:

 

[Fatmanonice]

I just don't know if it matters how much Dragon Quest is envelope pushing. All of the third parties so far (With the exceptions of Bayonetta and Snake for their own specific reasons) have quite large legacies that relate to Nintendo and then they're characters were chosen to be good representatives of the franchise. I just get the sense that the third party franchise is chosen first and then Sakurai figures out the most popular representative and best way to give to make that franchise's representation as unique as possible. DQ might not bring much objectively new, but I'm sure Sakurai could figure out something to make them a little more interesting if need be and I also just don't see that priority reflected as first and foremost with regards to choosing third party representatives. I mean look at Final Fantasy, he decided he wanted a rep in the game, then chose a more popular classic character, then made his moveset unique. I think we could see a very similar situation if he decides to go for DQ.

Except that's not how it works. Contrary to popular belief, there are no asspull esoteric movesets in Smash just for the sake of making characters unique. Wii Fit is gameplay mechanics from Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus. Duck Hunt is Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt. Ice Climbers are ice, jumping, and team work. Game and Watch is the Game and Watch games. Pac-Man is elements from Galaga, Mappy, and, of course, Pac-Man. Fox and Falco's specials are lazers, reflector, boost, and warp drive from Star Fox. Captain Falcon's moves revolve around wreckless speed and strength, with all his specials are high risk/high reward essentially getting in close and blowing his opponent away or leaving himself wide open, just like in the F-Zero games. ROB's moveset predominantly deals with his janky arms and rotation.

Here Sakurai's own words on Chrom in Smash 4:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."

Sound familiar?

And then:

"Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

This is where Sakurai says character concepts come naturally to him. If he has to strain and wrack his brain to make them unique, he simply doesn't bother rather than bang (da drum then yer mum) a square peg in a round hole.

But wait, there's more:

"In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."

Let's see... Silent protagonists? Check. Sword users? Check. Sword users who have shields? Check. Sword users that use magic? Check. Sword users that use RPG elements in their moveset? Check. Okay, we're now scrapping the bottom of the barrel to make a DQ Hero unique. A wise man once said, "ideas are like farts, if you force them too hard, it's going to create ****" and that's basically what we've gotten to.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Making statements like this trying to guess what happens behind the scenes and using that as your argument is so ****ing stupid it hurts my brain just reading it

Do you really doubt that Nintendo can do whatever they want with DLC?

Except that's not how it works. Contrary to popular belief, there are no asspull esoteric movesets in Smash just for the sake of making characters unique. Wii Fit is gameplay mechanics from Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus. Duck Hunt is Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt. Ice Climbers are ice, jumping, and team work. Game and Watch is the Game and Watch games. Pac-Man is elements from Galaga, Mappy, and, of course, Pac-Man. Fox and Falco's specials are lazers, reflector, boost, and warp drive from Star Fox. Captain Falcon's moves revolve around wreckless speed and strength, with all his specials are high risk/high reward essentially getting in close and blowing his opponent away or leaving himself wide open, just like in the F-Zero games. ROB's moveset predominantly deals with his janky arms and rotation.

Here Sakurai's own words on Chrom in Smash 4:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."

Sound familiar?

And then:

"Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

This is where Sakurai says character concepts come naturally to him. If he has to strain and wrack his brain to make them unique, he simply doesn't bother rather than bang (da drum then yer mum) a square peg in a round hole.

But wait, there's more:

"In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."

Let's see... Silent protagonists? Check. Sword users? Check. Sword users who have shields? Check. Sword users that use magic? Check. Sword users that use RPG elements in their moveset? Check. Okay, we're now scrapping the bottom of the barrel to make a DQ Hero unique. A wise man once said, "ideas are like farts, if you force them too hard, it's going to create ****" and that's basically what we've gotten to.

I’d argue that Duck Hunt and Pac-Man are some major asspulls moveset-wise. They do stuff they can’t do in their games and (unlike the Star Fox guys and Falcon) isn’t even derived from the characters. It’s no more of an asspull than if they decided to draw from Chrono Trigger for a Dragon Quest moveset.

(I also think Sakurai really dropped the ball with not making Chrom unique, either in 4 or Ultimate. A man of his talent shouldn’t, and never has, had difficulty coming up with a moveset for a character and the fact that they wield a sword doesn’t really limit possibilities. Just look at games like Soul Calibur, where nearly every single character wields one.)

The argument that he doesn’t force a character is also kind of moot, when he definitely forced himself to envision a playable Ridley due to fan demand, and movesets for Animal Crossing characters (two!) and Miis (three + custom moves) just because they became necessary inclusions.

Also, being a silent protagonist doesn’t really affect gameplay.

And we only have the Links wielding swords and shields, so that’s just one moveset. Likewise, we only have Robin as a sword + magic fighter (Shulk if you wanna stretch it). We don’t have any sword + shield + magic fighter. As for characters that represent RPG mechanics, we have Cloud with his Limit Break and the Fire Emblem guys with counters and Critical Hits, which are mechanics specific to Final Fantasy and SRPGs, so there’s not much possibility of overlap. I don’t really see how you’d have trouble making a DQ character unique. If you were really struggling, I guess you could just pull a Pac-Man and pull from DQV’s monster capturing mechanics, and have it be something like Erdrick & Slime.

 

[Deleted member]

So something interesting just got announced.

https://mobile.twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1067444243650699264?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://d-9325461091631945510.ampproject.net/1811202257200/frame.html

Apparently the Video Game Awards is going to have 10 game announcements and updates on existing titles...

We may get something.

EDIT: Let's keep hype in check, but this looks good for a dlc reveal.

METROID PRIME 4 PLEASE

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Except that's not how it works. Contrary to popular belief, there are no asspull esoteric movesets in Smash just for the sake of making characters unique. Wii Fit is gameplay mechanics from Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus. Duck Hunt is Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt. Ice Climbers are ice, jumping, and team work. Game and Watch is the Game and Watch games. Pac-Man is elements from Galaga, Mappy, and, of course, Pac-Man. Fox and Falco's specials are lazers, reflector, boost, and warp drive from Star Fox. Captain Falcon's moves revolve around wreckless speed and strength, with all his specials are high risk/high reward essentially getting in close and blowing his opponent away or leaving himself wide open, just like in the F-Zero games. ROB's moveset predominantly deals with his janky arms and rotation.

Here Sakurai's own words on Chrom in Smash 4:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."

Sound familiar?

And then:

"Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

This is where Sakurai says character concepts come naturally to him. If he has to strain and wrack his brain to make them unique, he simply doesn't bother rather than bang (da drum then yer mum) a square peg in a round hole.

But wait, there's more:

"In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."

Let's see... Silent protagonists? Check. Sword users? Check. Sword users who have shields? Check. Sword users that use magic? Check. Sword users that use RPG elements in their moveset? Check. Okay, we're now scrapping the bottom of the barrel to make a DQ Hero unique. A wise man once said, "ideas are like farts, if you force them too hard, it's going to create ****" and that's basically what we've gotten to.

Yeah, I can think of all sorts of third party possibilities that are easier to provide something interesting to the table.

Banjo-Kazooie can have a team mechanic that's even more elaborate than Duck Hunt, reflecting their complex gameplay.

Shantae can certainly use dancing to transform and alter gameplay to suit the situation.

Rash would have a high emphasis of getting up close and personal (a dangerous scenario, much like his series) to maximize damage with elaborate combos, with hit and run tactics also being encouraged.

Marco Rossi has a full military arsenal that can be adapted to any and every situation, and has CQC tactics. Big Mode can also be used.

Bomberman would use ballistics that can hurt himself, so planning is important, just like in his games.

Master Higgins can have a stamina mechanic replenished with food, with projectile tossing and a hard to control skateboard to help balance it out.

Bonk can hit everything with his noggin and use head swings to use momentum and recover himself, fists be damned.

You can even make a case for Earthworm Jim, who has various eccentric weapons and can use his head to whip at people or hang on to things.

Compared to all that, Erdrick is white bread.

 

[astralAenigma]

astralAenigma Your Geno pic reminds of this Spongebob scene lol:

That's actually pretty accurate lol xD

 

[Loliko YnT]

... Getting a DQ character in Smash for having more recognition in the west seem... so freaking complicated...

First of all , NoJ must have an interest about that.
We still don't know that their DLC criteria will be. They could focus on requested characters , ad character , gaming icons , or a mix of the 3.

Let's suppose they have an interest in this , they want Erdrick in Smash.

They'll make it one of the suggestions for Sakurai , to know if that would be Good or not. If Sakurai really need it , he can say no for several reasons (lack World-wide appeal , continue the trend of hero/heroine he's breaking with PP , over-all hard to get...).

Let's suppose he say yes , because DQ is still huge in Japan and has a good History with Nintendo.

They're going to see SE for negotiations.
Remember , they were the stingiest third party for Smash Bros. (No New characters , AT , music , stages , costumes , FF7 spirits. Just the Sm4sh content minus the costumes , instead , 4 Spirits. 2 Cloud , Geno , Mallow.)

Let's suppose SE say yes , and ask Armor Project and most others companies , despise them having small raw benefit than if they pick a pure SE rep like Sephiroth or Geno. Because they would need to share DLCs/amiibos sales , not even sure if they would gain that much.

Armor project , bird studio , say yes , despise not having any DQ main games for the Switch in the work. (It would be surprising to see DQ11 worldwide on the Switch getting released around February/March 2019. They didn't build any hype with announcements before-hand , and aren't even sure as to when the japanese version will get released next year.)

Then , the composer. Sure , he's stingy and his MIDI tracks will cost a freaking arm , and sure , he's anti-LGBT and denied japanese WW2 crime , but people aren't going to dig this deep for this kind of info !
Yeah , G&W , but it was an in-game reference , people noticed it quickly , only the composer name will be in the game , just in the "My music" section!
And yeah , It's only 2 tracks , but theses 2 tracks will be absolutely amazing despise the MIDI convertion ! Heck , we could even maybe do a smashified remix and have 3!

There , all the negotiations are done to get the character. Amiibos rights too , but we'll do the amiibo later , like we did in Sm4sh.

Sakurai is designing Erdrick to work in Smash , despise him beeing a swordman , I'm sure he'll find a way to make him stand out ! He must have a few unique things.
He's also doing a stage , there , everything is going perfectly. It's Sakurai and his dev Team , they can do that.

Finally , he's ready ! When are we going to reveal him ? A Nintendo direct !
Wait... They don't have any DQ games for us , except DQ Builders 2...? And the western audience don't know him , or only a few does ?

Well , let's reveal him in a Smash direct with PP! I'm sure he'll generate a lot of hype , and people will be excited and want to play DQ games on our amazing Nintendo system !

Corrin wasn't liked that much despise his/her differences like a chainsaw Sword on fire/beeing a dragon? Roy was heavily requested ? Everyone know Cloud ? Darn it , we'll still do it anyway , if the community can like a plant in a pot , they wouldn't complain about Erdrick ! Let's do it !

*After the Smash direct*

Alright , receptions were pretty neutral/positive ! Let's get this momentum goi-- Wait , you're telling me the latest DQ game is on our competitor systems ? That we don't have the retro DQ games with Erdrick ? That all we have is a spin-off , and 2 3DS ports that we aren't getting much money from anyway ? We did all theses efforts just to have him in Smash Bros and nothing else ? And he isn't loved by the community ? He'll just sell like any others DLC we've done ?! That , anyway , most of the people who watched the Smash direct were Smash fans and nothing else ?that the casual audience isn't that interested by DQ because of all of this ?

YOU'RE TELLING THAT SE HAD A WAY CHEAPER AND MORE REQUESTED CHARACTER ?! AND THAT IT WOULD GAVE US THE SAME BENEFIT WITHOUT ALL THOSES RISKS ?!

Yeah , that's why I think that DQ would be such a weird choice. He would only be here for history , and would be the most expensive third party character despise beeing less iconic and requested than others third parties , and isn't even a good ad to get Nintendo fans to play DQ games.

As long as DQ11 isn't released on the Switch , DQ in Smash would give them nothing after his inclusion.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Luigifan18]

METROID PRIME 4 PLEASE

That's technically not an existing game.

 

[Icewolff92]

Except that's not how it works. Contrary to popular belief, there are no asspull esoteric movesets in Smash just for the sake of making characters unique. Wii Fit is gameplay mechanics from Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus. Duck Hunt is Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt. Ice Climbers are ice, jumping, and team work. Game and Watch is the Game and Watch games. Pac-Man is elements from Galaga, Mappy, and, of course, Pac-Man. Fox and Falco's specials are lazers, reflector, boost, and warp drive from Star Fox. Captain Falcon's moves revolve around wreckless speed and strength, with all his specials are high risk/high reward essentially getting in close and blowing his opponent away or leaving himself wide open, just like in the F-Zero games. ROB's moveset predominantly deals with his janky arms and rotation.

Here Sakurai's own words on Chrom in Smash 4:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."

Sound familiar?

And then:

"Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

This is where Sakurai says character concepts come naturally to him. If he has to strain and wrack his brain to make them unique, he simply doesn't bother rather than bang (da drum then yer mum) a square peg in a round hole.

But wait, there's more:

"In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games."

Let's see... Silent protagonists? Check. Sword users? Check. Sword users who have shields? Check. Sword users that use magic? Check. Sword users that use RPG elements in their moveset? Check. Okay, we're now scrapping the bottom of the barrel to make a DQ Hero unique. A wise man once said, "ideas are like farts, if you force them too hard, it's going to create ****" and that's basically what we've gotten to.

As a fan of the Fire Emblem characters (aka FE being my favorite franchise), his "in the end" part of the qoute makes me raise an eyebrow or two. You don't want to have to similar fighters yet the only ones that truly stand out of the Fire emblem bunch are Corrin and Robin. When he (if he wanted) has more then one character that he could use to make the franchise more uniqued representetive (and don't get me started on Zelda with it's three Links) Sorry about this off the topic rant, but as a Fire Emblem fan, the representation of the characters has always bugged me in terms of laziness.

 

[Icewolff92]

... Getting a DQ character in Smash for having more recognition in the west seem... so freaking complicated...

First of all , NoJ must have an interest about that.
We still don't know that their DLC criteria will be. They could focus on requested characters , ad character , gaming icons , or a mix of the 3.

Let's suppose they have an interest in this , they want Erdrick in Smash.

They'll make it one of the suggestions for Sakurai , to know if that would be Good or not. If Sakurai really need it , he can say no for several reasons (lack World-wide appeal , continue the trend of hero/heroine he's breaking with PP , over-all hard to get...).

Let's suppose he say yes , because DQ is still huge in Japan and has a good History with Nintendo.

They're going to see SE for negotiations.
Remember , they were the stingiest third party for Smash Bros. (No New characters , AT , music , stages , costumes , FF7 spirits. Just the Sm4sh content minus the costumes , instead , 4 Spirits. 2 Cloud , Geno , Mallow.)

Let's suppose SE say yes , and ask Armor Project and most others companies , despise them having small raw benefit than if they pick a pure SE rep like Sephiroth or Geno. Because they would need to share DLCs/amiibos sales , not even sure if they would gain that much.

Armor project , bird studio , say yes , despise not having any DQ main games for the Switch in the work. (It would be surprising to see DQ11 worldwide on the Switch getting released around February/March 2019. They didn't build any hype with announcements before-hand , and aren't even sure as to when the japanese version will get released next year.)

Then , the composer. Sure , he's stingy and his MIDI tracks will cost a freaking arm , and sure , he's anti-LGBT and denied japanese WW2 crime , but people aren't going to dig this deep for this kind of info !
Yeah , G&W , but it was an in-game reference , people noticed it quickly , only the composer name will be in the game , just in the "My music" section!
And yeah , It's only 2 tracks , but theses 2 tracks will be absolutely amazing despise the MIDI convertion ! Heck , we could even maybe do a smashified remix and have 3!

There , all the negotiations are done to get the character. Amiibos rights too , but we'll do the amiibo later , like we did in Sm4sh.

Sakurai is designing Erdrick to work in Smash , despise him beeing a swordman , I'm sure he'll find a way to make him stand out ! He must have a few unique things.
He's also doing a stage , there , everything is going perfectly. It's Sakurai and his dev Team , they can do that.

Finally , he's ready ! When are we going to reveal him ? A Nintendo direct !
Wait... They don't have any DQ games for us , except DQ Builders 2...? And the western audience don't know him , or only a few does ?

Well , let's reveal him in a Smash direct with PP! I'm sure he'll generate a lot of hype , and people will be excited and want to play DQ games on our amazing Nintendo system !

Corrin wasn't liked that much despise his/her differences like a chainsaw Sword on fire/beeing a dragon? Roy was heavily requested ? Everyone know Cloud ? Darn it , we'll still do it anyway , if the community can like a plant in a pot , they wouldn't complain about Erdrick ! Let's do it !

*After the Smash direct*

Alright , receptions were pretty neutral/positive ! Let's get this momentum goi-- Wait , you're telling me the latest DQ game is on our competitor systems ? That we don't have the retro DQ games with Erdrick ? That all we have is a spin-off , and 2 3DS ports that we aren't getting much money from anyway ? We did all theses efforts just to have him in Smash Bros and nothing else ? And he isn't loved by the community ? He'll just sell like any others DLC we've done ?! That , anyway , most of the people who watched the Smash direct were Smash fans and nothing else ?that the casual audience isn't that interested by DQ because of all of this ?

YOU'RE TELLING THAT SE HAD A WAY CHEAPER AND MORE REQUESTED CHARACTER ?! AND THAT IT WOULD GAVE US THE SAME BENEFIT WITHOUT ALL THOSES RISKS ?!

Yeah , that's why I think that DQ would be such a weird choice. He would only be here for history , and would be the most expensive third party character despise beeing less iconic and requested than others third parties , and isn't even a good ad to get Nintendo fans to play DQ games.

As long as DQ11 isn't released on the Switch , DQ in Smash would give them nothing after his inclusion.

Sorry for the long post.

Well that's the thing. DQ11 is comming to Switch

 

[Fatmanonice]

More on Sakurai's design philosophy:

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/megaman-villager-wiifit/

"To be blunt, if I think I can do it then I can envision a concrete embodiment of the character, but if I cannot do that the character cannot be made.” This is a big factor. Of course getting permission and understanding from the original creators is necessary, but whether the image of the character in my head is dancing powerfully, or not. This is of the utmost importance. On the contrary, no matter how suited a character may be to fighting, if I cannot meaningfully distinguish them from other characters, or create fun unique characteristics of the characters, then that’s the end for them."

An example regarding Megaman:


"For Megaman, if I was just thinking about how he would fight, he probably would have ended up with standard punches and kicks. Megaman’s moveset in the “Marvel VS. Capcom” series is comprised of punches and kicks, so there would be no inconsistencies there as well. However, the unique trait of the Megaman series is that he uses the attacks of various bosses to fight. I am aiming to capture the “embodiment” of Megaman by incorporating a wealth of these different attacks into his character."

Sakurai on the importance of the cooperation and input of all IP liscense holders:

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/16/solid-snake-joins-the-brawl-translation/

"Snake’s inclusion began when Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima came to me around the time Melee was being completed, and asked, “Please put Snake in!” That was the real trigger that started everything. However, we couldn’t bring Snake into the world of Smash Bros. with just Mr. Kojima’s and my wishes. We needed the cooperation of both Nintendo and Konami, and the approval of other people involved in order to make it happen."

Like I've said before, Dragon Quest would need the coordination of at least four separate entities. Sakurai has regularly described that working with just one third party is very difficult, imagine 4 or 5... For one character.

 

[Deleted member]

That's technically not an existing game.

And that doesn't mean I can't hope for it to be at the VGAs