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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Z25

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I don't know about you, but to me it feels way too late to bring back the Mii costume. if Geno does survive this upcoming presentation then that can only mean there is something going on behind the scenes involving our dear puppet. but still if i'm wrong about it i will be the first person out here to take the L and admit my mistake
I would love to think the same, but Issac proved it doesn’t matter how long it’s been. We saw his trophy last which really crushed people because they thought since we didn’t see it prior, Issac would be playable.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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Absolutely. Seeing Geno return in any game and becoming relevant would be a massive win for this fanbase regardless if he get's into Smash soon or not. Seeing Geno rise from the grave is the Ultimate goal here is it not guys?
Indeed. I mean, even Mario Kart Tour would be awesome alone. And that hasn't even gotten in the general lesser used ones like Pauline yet. It's also the easiest to add him to, and would get a lot of attention since it's a very very notable game right now. I won't say anything on its quality, but that's subjective.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I would love to think the same, but Issac proved it doesn’t matter how long it’s been. We saw his trophy last which really crushed people because they thought since we didn’t see it prior, Issac would be playable.
Yeah, but that was during base game speculation when there was only a 8 month period from Ultimate's announcement to the November 1st, 2018 Smash Direct. The Geno fans have been waiting for 2 and half years to see whether or not his Mii costume would come back or he would be playable. Kind of a huge difference in terms of the waiting gap.
 
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Springwood Slasher

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Oh, Geno fans don't have to do anything in that department. Its his detractors who can't shut up about him. Go into a general speculation thread at a random time and there's the same 4 people complaining about Geno for the 10,000th time.

Honestly, the one bright spot of him being potentially Mii'ed is that his detractors can finally move on with their lives and stop obsessing over him.
Strangely I feel like the anti-Geno people indirectly help us. They are still keeping Geno’s name alive in speculation.

it’s one of those cases where any press is good press.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Strangely I feel like the anti-Geno people indirectly help us. They are still keeping Geno’s name alive in speculation.

it’s one of those cases where any press is good press.
Old Geno GameFaqs/4chan detractor in 50 years from now: I'm telling you young ones! Those Geno fans are still at it despite their damn doll still not being in the game yet.

Young GameFaqs/4chan user: Who the **** are you?! And who's Geno?!

Other GameFaqs/4chan user: Geno is a side character from SMRPG. A long time ago, the SMRPG brand stayed unrelevant for 25 years and during that time, Geno's fans were campaigning for him in Smash. This old coot is trying to relive his glory days when Geno wasn't in Smash yet and he wasted all of his time here making fun of the Geno fanbase and telling them he was never going to get in.
 

Vector Victor

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Strangely I feel like the anti-Geno people indirectly help us. They are still keeping Geno’s name alive in speculation.

it’s one of those cases where any press is good press.
The grand irony is seeing them complain about all the times Geno is brought up and how they are sick of seeing his name, then you go back into the conversations and notice that the group discussing him the most is THEM. Which is funny as Geno got on detractor's hate list because the fandom kept harping about him. So their counter to that is to.....act exactly as the fanbase that annoyed them by harping about him. Its Ridley all over again.
 

Colololin

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I have always believed that Geno was decided to be playable right when the Wii U costume came on that console. Saved for the next installment, Ultimate. So, if that costume won’t return on Thursday, that will confirm my theory/faith and it can only mean that Geno is indeed coming as a Full Fighter later, probably as #79 or in another spot. Recreating the Third Party Fan Demand fulfilled we saw with Banjo-Kazooie, maybe even in a higher scale due to how hard this character is.

Im not blind but there is no way Geno won’t be playable after all the evidence, demand, Sakurai’s recognition and even a Splash Art putting emphasis on his inclusion even as a Mii. This character is a perfect addition in terms of music, design, history and mostly, fresh and fun moveset.

Even a deluxe costume at this point would be a crime. Of course I could live with that cause Smash is already perfect and the team always do their best.

Im just saying that IMO Geno will align like a star and join the party, ultimately.
If Sakurai had chosen the DLC characters this probably would have been the case. I would be interested to see what else would be different if Sakurai picked the DLC besides just Ninjara and Geno. Somebody needs to ask him which 11 he would have chosen for the passes.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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If Sakurai had chosen the DLC characters this probably would have been the case. I would be interested to see what else would be different if Sakurai picked the DLC besides just Ninjara and Geno. Somebody needs to ask him which 11 he would have chosen for the passes.
Honestly? Terry too I'm sure would've been the case. Hero or Slime would've made sense either way((being he's a major fan of DQ3, and he seemed interested in Luminary too, I think we've have gotten the same character of Hero). Banjo & Kazooie and Steve as well definitely sound logical for him to pick.

Joker, Byleth, and Min Min are very up in the air. We already know Ninjara is his pick, but he may have looked at other factors. It might've even been Spring Man in the end instead of Ninjara.

Sephiroth is hard to say, but it depends if FFVII is one of his favorite games or not. Cloud was based upon people wanting an FF character in general, but also cause he's the biggest JRPG protagonist you can find.

Right now the only DLC he hard chose is PP. It's possible any bonus characters beyond the Pass are his choice as is. That may be part of why PP is also labeled a bonus too. My guess is they were going to do DLC, Sakurai chose Plant first, and then they later went with a Pass idea instead of separated(but bundle options) like in 4. This would fit the timeline well, and explain why Sakurai is not actually choosing the specific DLC characters.
 

StarLight42

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If Geno is killed tomorrow, MCG or "Mii Costume Guy" is also dead. He hasn't gotten any Smash Miis right since Cuphead, and even then I never saw this "Cuphead" prediction until after the fact.

There is simply no way we are getting a Mallow and Smithy Mii if Geno is going to be killed with a Deluxe costume tomorrow. Multiple miis like that only happen for playable characters.

So while Geno dying tomorrow might suck the biggest donkey testicles imagineable, at the very least it could steer speculation onto a more clear path.
 

MattX20

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What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:


If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
Mostly just watching Redlettermedia's Best of the Worst videos and Tales from the Crypt. Not a whole lot else
 

JarBear

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Tomorrow will be closure since we'll most likely see the costume back, deluxe or not. Knowing Sakurai, he'll treat it with care and reiterate how he either tried to make it happen or still really wants him in Smash but couldn't do it. He's classy like that.

I know Geno-detractors think we are crazy for supporting this "irrelevant/niche" character, but when the game director himself says he's a popular choice and tried to get him in Brawl, it like ... doesn't count for some reason?
 

Fatmanonice

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Sakurai's pretty eclectic and has shown that his sheer enthusiasm is usually enough to convince companies to let him use their characters. Despite what people say, I don't think there's anybody that Sakurai hasn't enjoyed making a reality. Having creative control over literally hundreds of millions of dollars worth of intellectual property has got to be pretty exhilarating and Sakurai has shown that he "gets" what makes a character what they are and the reason for their appeal among their respective fanbases. He's a mad genius that people often underestimate at their own peril but, to his benefit, the Smash fanbase often forgets allowing him to BTFO of expectations time and time again. Sakurai is a man that not only openly loves his work but making it good enough that his fervor rubs off on everyone else. Never forget this.
 
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G0nard

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What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:


If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
For me its this https://youtu.be/6j2MVoNd6oU it also helps that I'm commissioning something that has Me, Mac and Geno in it doing a similar pose to the one seen on the video. Even though I have my head high for this, I'm of course worried about what's gonna happen tomorrow...(to a point where I have lost some sleep over it) but this song is helping me calm down, regardless if Geno gets Mii costume or not. I'll main him and try my best to win tournaments with Geno
 

Elmorethemagician

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Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:

If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
I'm constantly watching randomizers, listening to some Pandora music, etc. Caramelldansen for the win! ...Also, gotta have my Power Rangers. But it helps it has epic music, so.
 

Starlight Liger

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Tomorrow will be closure since we'll most likely see the costume back, deluxe or not. Knowing Sakurai, he'll treat it with care and reiterate how he either tried to make it happen or still really wants him in Smash but couldn't do it. He's classy like that.

I know Geno-detractors think we are crazy for supporting this "irrelevant/niche" character, but when the game director himself says he's a popular choice and tried to get him in Brawl, it like ... doesn't count for some reason?
If it's any consolation for Geno fans, I would have definitely preferred him over Sephiroth. I just don't understand how Square Enix owns the rights to the character when he was featured in a Mario game?
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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If it's any consolation for Geno fans, I would have definitely preferred him over Sephiroth. I just don't understand how Square Enix owns the rights to the character when he was featured in a Mario game?
They created the character and the game. Many of the monsters are basically variations on a Mario mook, but Geno and Mallow are completely unique. So it does make sense to have full rights to pure OC's. While the others could be co-owned rights, since they're more like recolors.

Though keep in mind Square-Enix also does have rights for contents scattered around the creators, so that may have been part of the deal to make the game. This is probably not a typical situation.
 
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link2702

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ngl, that 2nd point really, really hurts. Like as i was reading that i felt nothing but pain
How do you think I felt having to type it, and be forced to admit it myself?

I don't blame Sakurai for this, he's fully aware of genos popularity, and he himself would like to add him, but his hands were tied here, and Nintendo just thinks a costume is good enough.
 

Colololin

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Honestly? Terry too I'm sure would've been the case. Hero or Slime would've made sense either way((being he's a major fan of DQ3, and he seemed interested in Luminary too, I think we've have gotten the same character of Hero). Banjo & Kazooie and Steve as well definitely sound logical for him to pick.

Joker, Byleth, and Min Min are very up in the air. We already know Ninjara is his pick, but he may have looked at other factors. It might've even been Spring Man in the end instead of Ninjara.

Sephiroth is hard to say, but it depends if FFVII is one of his favorite games or not. Cloud was based upon people wanting an FF character in general, but also cause he's the biggest JRPG protagonist you can find.

Right now the only DLC he hard chose is PP. It's possible any bonus characters beyond the Pass are his choice as is. That may be part of why PP is also labeled a bonus too. My guess is they were going to do DLC, Sakurai chose Plant first, and then they later went with a Pass idea instead of separated(but bundle options) like in 4. This would fit the timeline well, and explain why Sakurai is not actually choosing the specific DLC characters.
I suspect he made those statements about Geno at the end of the DLC (Smash 4) because he did indeed plan him for this game (even being aware Square Enix may have wanted the DLC royalties) but he himself did not anticipate Nintendo having their own ideas. It explains why he came out with this publicly when he does not normally talk about who could have got in.
 
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Firox

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Strangely I feel like the anti-Geno people indirectly help us. They are still keeping Geno’s name alive in speculation.

it’s one of those cases where any press is good press.
Or as I like to call it, "the Trump effect". No matter which side you're on, you can't escape the incessant media coverage.
 
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Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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I suspect he made those statements about Geno at the end of the DLC (Smash 4) because he did indeed plan him for this game (even being aware Square Enix may have wanted the DLC royalties) but he himself did not anticipate Nintendo having their own ideas. It explains why he came out with this publicly when he does not normally talk about who could have got in.
It could also be just a case of "he really wanted him in but got what he could" too. I'm not sure Sakurai could've gotten Geno as playable. Especially since he went for Cloud. We still don't know why Brawl didn't work out. Was it an issue with SE or Nintendo? Did Sakurai just outright lack time to try and license him(and we know the game had delays but was still overall rushed, due to having tons of gameplay and balance issues, so... And you know, cutting literally 7 intended characters alone. Of which only one had clear work done, and only one other he noted was planned but scrapped as an idea. Dixie likely never even made it far or he cut almost all her files as is).

I want to note the last bit. It's something that I actually didn't realize till now. Geno not being in Brawl may actually relate to time constraints. He's definitely not one who could work as some kind of clone or semi-clone. Even Wolf is easier to make, since he uses Fox as a base and only barely resembles the abilities.
 

YsDisciple

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Final Fantasy in Super Smash Bros.



I. Testing the Waters


According to the good scholars at Source Gaming, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's development started as far back as late 2015, with the design documents being completed for the base game around December 15th, 2015. The request for a new Smash game had even come much earlier from the late Mr. Iwata himself (this was known as early as early 2015). Source: https://sourcegaming.info/2020/05/16/ultimate-timeline/

It was during the November 12, 2015 Nintendo Direct that Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS would reveal their latest guest DLC fighter; one which would shake the outlook of DLC speculation, and blow the minds of fans all over. Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII was revealed as a DLC fighter, who would come along with his own stage, and two music tracks. A Smash-focused Direct followed later on December 15th, 2015 which revealed two more DLC fighters; those being Corrin from Fire Emblem, and Bayonetta from her self-titled series. However, said presentation also went into detail over Cloud's content, as well as accompanying Mii Costume; Geno.

Fast forward to December 7th, 2018 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate released. In it, Cloud returned within the base roster however, the content he brought hadn't changed; same Midgar stage, same two tracks (which has been the greatest concern) yet, the Mii Costumes it brought in Smash 4 were nowhere to be seen. Further along the way came the first Fighters Pass Challenger Pack #2 with Hero, and neither of the two Square Enix Mii Costumes made a return. Now, only hours away from Sephiroth, Challenger Pack #8's presentation, many are expecting to see the return of the Chocobo Hat, and Geno's Mii Costume (dreadfully), as well as more music that could finally add more diversity to the Final Fantasy content in the game. However, the timing of tomorrow's presentation comes off almost as an anniversary to Cloud's reveal in Smash. Knowing that Ultimate's planning began sometime in 2015, perhaps the negotiations between Nintendo and Square Enix weren't only for Smash 4 at the time.

By 2015, certainly Square Enix must have been aware of Sakurai's requests and wants since the Brawl days (as stated and discussed on this thread before numerous times, Geno had been requested for Brawl by Sakurai). However, it would seem that the dream for the star messenger was dashed when he was shown as a Mii Costume back on December 15th, 2015. At the time it seemed as if that was all the negotiations were able to muster for the character however, when considering the additional Final Fantasy content coming soon to Ultimate, perhaps Geno's Mii Costume was not a mere "consolation prize". It is possible that within the negotiations for Smash 4, and most likely Ultimate's content, Square Enix agreed to licensing their IPs starting with Cloud Strife for Smash 4 as a means to "test the waters" with his inclusion. As for a continued collaboration going into Ultimate, Cloud's return and any additional content from Square Enix would be driven by how the former's reception would be in Smash 4. It didn't take long for the overjoyed reactions to be seen once Cloud was revealed back in November 2015. The fact that alongside Cloud, a Geno Mii Costume was also released does seem to indicate that it was meant to also gauge interest in the character specifically.

II. Final Fantasy in Smash, Five Years Later: A Repeat of 2015?

Five years later Smash will hopefully and finally be receiving more Final Fantasy content, and with it (hopefully) more music. In addition to more music, and a second Final Fantasy stage, we'll most likely be getting more Final Fantasy Mii Costumes and Spirits (again, hopefully a good number of spirits). Thinking between the December 2015 Smash Direct, and this Thursday's upcoming Sephiroth Showcase, a sense of "déjà vu" can be felt. Like with the December 2015 Smash Direct, Sakurai will certainly go into detail over Sephiroth's moveset (just like he did with Cloud). Afterwards he will talk about the new stage (as he did with explaining Midgar). Two segments that may differ from 2015's showcase will certainly be the music, and Mii Costume Wave segments. Both (again, hopefully) will show much more content than back then. Hold on... the Smash December 15, 2015 Direct was pretty much a Cloud character/DLC pack showcase similar to the ones we've had within Ultimate's DLC. In said Direct we got two additional DLC character reveals. Yes, in tomorrow's showcase, Nintendo has made sure to specify that nothing else (no additional Challenger Pack) will be revealed but, considering the fact that it's another Final Fantasy character, and there is a particular attention towards a missing "costume" whose character has been requested for years, it does bring up the question if Sakurai would add a surprise within said presentation? As many have noted, the showcase will be "streamed" at a much later time than past character showcases. However, surely Sakurai wouldn't just add another character slot in the middle of Fighters Pass Vol. 2 by the end of tomorrow's presentation. That would be absurd! Or would it?
 

"LC"_Lapen

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What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:


If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
Spoilered because of language, but if there ever was a song that personified my feelings atm, this is IT.

Seriously, F's ahead
 
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Malo Mart

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Old Geno GameFaqs/4chan detractor in 50 years from now: I'm telling you young ones! Those Geno fans are still at it despite their damn doll still not being in the game yet.

Young GameFaqs/4chan user: Who the **** are you?! And who's Geno?!

Other GameFaqs/4chan user: Geno is a side character from SMRPG. A long time ago, the SMRPG brand stayed unrelevant for 25 years and during that time, Geno's fans were campaigning for him in Smash. This old coot is trying to relive his glory days when Geno wasn't in Smash yet and he wasted all of his time here making fun of the Geno fanbase and telling them he was never going to get in.
I like the implication that Gamefaqs or 4chan are even gonna last that long. Lmao. I guess it makes sense since both sites are a relic of the past anyway, two cockroaches in a nuclear fallout that refuse to die or go away.

What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:


If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
Any uplifting or motivational song from video games or elsewhere does the job for me. Here's one:


If I'm feeling extra ballsy, I can also fire One Winged Angel too. :ultpacman:
 

MisterMike

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What do you think the odds are that Sephiroth winds up being a Christmas Eve or even Christmas release?

If I may be so bold, 100%. Character releases aren't too far off from their presentation, and I honestly don't see them waiting until next year to release him. Plus, Christmas is well known for being a time of despair for many, so it'd be very fitting. Failing that, New Years is a safe bet also.

9th? This is the direct translation of the Japanese Twitter Tweet:

View attachment 295731
And there you have it, Christmas it is! :ultpacman:
 

protoblues

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Final prediction on Geno's fate.

Deluxe/Premium Mii (Gunner) coming with Beware the Mushroom Forest soundtrack.
100% the most likely thing to happen tomorrow.

Followed by, in order- the return of the old costume, nothing, and the return of the old costume which is then whirl-KO'd by Geno himself.
 
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Malo Mart

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I still don't understand the logic behind the thought of making Geno a so called deluxe or premium costume. Why go through the effort of updating an old costume from Smash 4 and attach a song to it when you could just port it exactly as it was and still charge the same amount of cash? The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. It feels to me like this idea was born out of detractors trying to shut us down rather than any sort of genuine speculation.

I fully believe the only two options for us tomorrow are either the old costume showing up one to one to how it was in Smash 4, or it not showing up at all, and I'm predicting the latter.
 

Fatmanonice

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One thing I've really come to appreciate about this speculation cycle is how open people are about where they are from, especially the Geno fans here that are from Mexico, Central America, and South America. Doing this for eons, it's wild to me how much different it is from the Brawl days. In the Brawl days, nobody really wanted to rock the boat so hardly anyone went out of their way to say where they were from, what ethnicity they were, etc. "White, straight, male, and American" was quietly considered the default because, unfortunately, the Smash community does have a long history of totally blowing off people who aren't these. Hell, I remember fighting with people back in the day for typically blowing off the skill of prominent European, Australian, and Japanese players.

Brawl passes and Smash 4 brings a new era. Suddenly, non-Americans are being treated with more respect. Suddenly, people are a lot more open about their ethnicity and sexuality (not in a creepy, well, at least most of the time...) Competitive experiences of players around the world are now considered a lot more important to the overall narrative. Ultimate then comes along and things open up even more. YEET Smash is a great example of this and how some of the videos I only understand like half of what the players are saying but their experience is considered important and part of the grander community. Still a long way to go but women have become a lot more prominent in the Smash community with Ultimate too. The community is growing and the world is getting smaller and it's honestly fantastic.

This brings us to this thread and times that I've found myself reading stories about Geno and SMRPG in Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, etc and it's really something else. In the Brawl days, it was hard to imagine the Geno fanbase as a "global effort." In those days, you largely just assumed everyone was a white red blooded 18-25 American male and it was never really something that people asked about or made a point of highlighting. It's so much different now because of social media. You have artists here. You have animators here. You have people who run YouTube channels and podcasts and even fan sites.

The ease of communication is astounding for someone like me who's older than time itself. I just really appreciate it how so many of you insert yourselves into the overall narrative. Being a part of the Geno fanbase is a part of you and it's something you share with people all around the world. Regardless of how tomorrow turns out, don't lose sight of that. Don't lose sight of how you can hop online on your computer and phone and interact with people clear across the world you likely wouldn't have met if not for Geno and SMRPG.

At the end of the day, that's Ultimately what's important: comraderie and having a group of people you can be yourself around and share the ups and downs of life with.
 

7NATOR

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I still don't understand the logic behind the thought of making Geno a so called deluxe or premium costume. Why go through the effort of updating an old costume from Smash 4 and attach a song to it when you could just port it exactly as it was and still charge the same amount of cash? The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. It feels to me like this idea was born out of detractors trying to shut us down rather than any sort of genuine speculation.

I fully believe the only two options for us tomorrow are either the old costume showing up one to one to how it was in Smash 4, or it not showing up at all, and I'm predicting the latter.
To be Fair, Old costumes have had Designs updated (Gil is an Example). It's not as extreme as a Premium costume, bit updates could be made

The Licensing for Regular Geno Costume and Premium Geno costume should be Similar. The Only thing is that there would probably be music added for it, but I think they willing to make the Additions. Premium Costume with Extra content as a whole sell more anyway.
 

TheShiningAbsol

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Why go through the effort of updating an old costume from Smash 4 and attach a song to it when you could just port it exactly as it was and still charge the same amount of cash?
To be fair, I don’t think any of the costumes are “straight ports”, I assume they all have to be re-rigged and probably retextured for Ultimate’s art style. But you could make that argument for the other “deluxe” costumes too - why bother making them any different from other costumes, why bother giving them a song?

Frankly, I’ll only be disappointed tomorrow if we get the old costume exactly as it was. Getting a “deluxe” costume would actually make me very happy, but I know I’m sort of the odd one out in that case.
 

The_Hypist

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What are you all listening to on this final full day? This song is pretty cool:


If I had any editing talent I would synch up the Geno dabbing gif but what can you do?
This one. It’s from a rhythm-platformer called Mad Rat Dead, and while it’s too new to be in Smash this song is my certified banger of 2020.

 
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