Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Datboigeno]

For all the people criticizing people for criticizing Ultimate in general because of the days events: I personally really love the game and love playing it. But there’s a rather huge contingent of players who competitively play smash who basically spend a lot of their time on social media criticizing the game because of bad online and other technical details. And you know what? They’re completely valid in feeling that way. They’ve spent more time playing and practicing than many of the people here combined. Has them ****ting on the game and comparing it to Melee soured my feelings? Not really. In the same way people being frustrated and voicing their frustration even with hyperbole over Geno not getting in really shouldn’t affect anyone here either. You may not like it but people shouldn’t have to hide their completely valid and raw feelings out of fear that some rando on gamefaqs might take a screenshot or whatever.

 

[super88cloud]

If Geno’s Costume doesn’t show up with this Square character, Geno would be 100% confirmed then.

Maybe as a Bonus. There is no way there is a special individual DLC section just for the Plant. If this happens, I can see Geno playable as a Bonus, as a gift from the Gods.

Anyway, if the costumes return, 100% will be upgraded, so life goes on and let’s play Mii.

Geno is still alive.

hope

Sephiroth: Shall I give you dis pear?
Fatman:
View attachment 295030

I hate how he does his crazy theorycraft extravaganza shi... but I really can't help and admire the madman that is fatmanonice.
Shine on,you crazy diamond.

I know some others did, but I forget which. They usually make a tweet. This time they didn't. The closest was the next tweet talking about the presentation, which you wouldn't expect unless it was the only one to show off today, so.

This. If geno evades the mii costume..
Then the hope and road continues. As small as that flame is.

There was less trolling here than I expected tbh. Silver linings

I expect the trolling to either come when he gets mii costume or that those people secretly root for geno, deep inside. Like deeeep inside.

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

Look guys, I know this is tough. Yes, if this means that the Mii Gunner is in then better luck next time. We don’t know that’s the case yet though.

I’m not one to say, “I’ve been through worse” but I think the disappointment everyone here is feeling is the same kind of disappointment the Snake thread felt during the reveal of PAC-MAN in Smash 4. They put so much focus on the 3rd party characters in and left Snake out in the cold. In the end, we WERE defeated, we never did get Snake in Smash 4. Even though we had that little bit of hope for a long time during DLC we still got pushed down over and over. It sucked.

Take Ridley, Banjo, and K. Rool, the three ABSOLUTELY HUGE characters of speculation in Smash 4. Constantly pushed down by detractors about being too big, or too irrelevant. Constantly going back and forth about how Sakurai says. As someone who was there as well. It sucks.

Flash forward two years though, two and a half for Banjo, and look where they are now. All I’m saying is there’s always a chance, however small it may seem to you guys, that this isn’t the end. Even IF the Mii Gunner gets in and becomes a PreMiium, as much as I know it sucks to hear, there’s always next game; or the way I see it, Smash Ultimate Deluxe. Ridley, K. Rool, Snake, Wolf, Banjo, Chrom, Mewtwo, Roy, and more throughout the games got told the same thing. But they always had a sliver of hope, no matter how tiny, that kept their fandom going. I mean, look at Isaac fans. Pushed in the dirt since Brawl but they’re, we’re, still a rather jolly bunch. And that’s what’s important on here. It’s a place where you can share your love for the character even if they somehow never get in. You can still share your love with others who feel the same way.

Chin up guys. It’s not over till Sakurai says it is.

This. We need hope like the hope some of you guys are spreading.

Being honest, My heart sank hard seeing that feathery menace cut through Galeem. Sephiroth's cool, and I'm interested to play as him, but given how I thought Sora was the only real threat to Geno,... Let's just say I'm still reeling.

But seeing stuff like this from fellow Geno hopefuls is very reassuring,, and is a large part of why I love the smash community as a whole. It's not looking great, but Sakurai is quite the slippery devil, so like you said, until we hear it straight from his mouth, nothing is off the table.

 

[Staarih]

I guess technically I could see Geno still making it as part of negotiations with Square about Sephiroth, we do have that added sixth character in the pass as opposed to five after all...

...but it comes down to the Mii costume and now it does feel like the costume will end up being it. We'll see when the presentation airs. If it gets a deluxe treatment then at least that's a step in the better direction as the proportions will actually look right. And Sakurai will likely say a word or two about it which will be interesting to hear.

 

[pinshadow]

Look guys, I know this is tough. Yes, if this means that the Mii Gunner is in then better luck next time. We don’t know that’s the case yet though.

I’m not one to say, “I’ve been through worse” but I think the disappointment everyone here is feeling is the same kind of disappointment the Snake thread felt during the reveal of PAC-MAN in Smash 4. They put so much focus on the 3rd party characters in and left Snake out in the cold. In the end, we WERE defeated, we never did get Snake in Smash 4. Even though we had that little bit of hope for a long time during DLC we still got pushed down over and over. It sucked.

Take Ridley, Banjo, and K. Rool, the three ABSOLUTELY HUGE characters of speculation in Smash 4. Constantly pushed down by detractors about being too big, or too irrelevant. Constantly going back and forth about how Sakurai says. As someone who was there as well. It sucks.

Flash forward two years though, two and a half for Banjo, and look where they are now. All I’m saying is there’s always a chance, however small it may seem to you guys, that this isn’t the end. Even IF the Mii Gunner gets in and becomes a PreMiium, as much as I know it sucks to hear, there’s always next game; or the way I see it, Smash Ultimate Deluxe. Ridley, K. Rool, Snake, Wolf, Banjo, Chrom, Mewtwo, Roy, and more throughout the games got told the same thing. But they always had a sliver of hope, no matter how tiny, that kept their fandom going. I mean, look at Isaac fans. Pushed in the dirt since Brawl but they’re, we’re, still a rather jolly bunch. And that’s what’s important on here. It’s a place where you can share your love for the character even if they somehow never get in. You can still share your love with others who feel the same way.

Chin up guys. It’s not over till Sakurai says it is.

I get what you mean, but I don't know man, Geno feels different from those characters for a couple reasons.

• With most Characters, why they aren't in is a mystery. Generally we just have to make baseless assumptions on why certain people don't get in. Not with Geno. It's pretty blatantly obvious the reason he's not in is the business heads at Square don't care about him or the game he's from. Honestly, Nintendo doesn't seem to either. What other character can you say was flat out said to be wanted by Sakurai in Smash, only for them to get shafted in favor of not one, not two, but THREE different characters from the same company. It really just feels like Square will NEVER budge on this. They put in ANOTHER FF7 CHARACTER before Geno.
• IS there really a next game though? Square was already hard to get back into Ultimate, and we got TWO chances in the DLC and got a different character both times. This is already clearly the last Smash game for a long time, who's to say Square will even be back here next time? Even if they are, if they weren't convinced to do it now, why the hell will they change their mind later?

I just find it infuriating because this is just how it feels to be a fan of the Mario RPG's in general these days. You actually look at a lot of the unpopular games Nintendo released during the Wii U era. Metroid Prime Federation Force, Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival. Those franchises got redeemed relatively quickly, Metroid got 2 games at E3 2017, Mario Tennis Aces was pretty good, New Horizons exists. Obviously not every franchise got has got what they deserve like Star Fox but atleast it doesn't feel any worse.

Now look at where the Mario RPG's were in 2016. Sticker Star was 4 years old and almost universally despised by the fans as the antithesis of everything a Paper Mario game should be. They announce a SEQUEL to that game, where it doesn't seem like they've learned anything, and it's generally not taken very well. Even when the game comes out it's only really a slightly improved version of Sticker Star. Mario and Luigi is doing ok but Paper Jam is very sterile, but at the same time taken as more of a consequence of the crossover than anything else, since that's what the dev's said.

Where are we in 2020? Mario and Luigi is DEAD, we got two decent remakes and Alphadream went bankrupt. Meanwhile for Paper Mario, we got Origami King announced which STILL APTLY REFUSED to go back to the traditional gameplay, and more importantly TONE of the original three games. But instead of the fanbase rallying against it again, we've ended up with 7 straight months of fighting over whether or not it's good and if Nintendo actually should go back to the old style. The game still sold well though, so I sure am glad the only future for the Mario RPG's is PAPER, GREAAAAAAAT.

It just feels like rather than the state of the Mario RPG's improving, it's just progressively getting worse, and Geno not getting in AGAIN is just the cherry on top for me.

 

[Noipoi]

Nothin more to do then see what next week holds.

 

[dream1ng]

Woah man you really opened our eyes here. We really aren’t true fans at all because we voiced our disappointment. People that jump into specific character threads to condescend the regular posters there are the true Super Smash Brothers Fans. Thank you so much for this insight. God bless <3

Tribalism has you defending someone who plans to write a manifesto, commit account suicide, and discard the game just because they support the same character you do. Perhaps you ought to take off the team's facepaint for a sec and recognize that such behaviour is, for lack of a better word, drastic.

I can't and won't stop anyone from acting as they see fit but my point is not to look past what drew you to the game in the first place. It wasn't Geno because he wasn't there.

Are you going to every other support thread to post stuff like this when their character isn't the one revealed, or are you just cherrypicking the Geno thread because we're the most vulnerable? Because I can assure you, this kind of negativity can be present everywhere.

Yes I would say this in any thread where someone said they're throwing a game they already owned in the trash because a character never promised didn't arrive.

 

[Geno Boost]

Nothin more to do then see what next week holds.

Yeah we have wasted so much oxygen we probably have to hold our breath until next week

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

I get what you mean, but I don't know man, Geno feels different from those characters for a couple reasons.

• With most Characters, why they aren't in is a mystery. Generally we just have to make baseless assumptions on why certain people don't get in. Not with Geno. It's pretty blatantly obvious the reason he's not in is the business heads at Square don't care about him or the game he's from. Honestly, Nintendo doesn't seem to either. What other character can you say was flat out said to be wanted by Sakurai in Smash, only for them to get shafted in favor of not one, not two, but THREE different characters from the same company. It really just feels like Square will NEVER budge on this. They put in ANOTHER FF7 CHARACTER before Geno.
• IS there really a next game though? Square was already hard to get back into Ultimate, and we got TWO chances in the DLC and got a different character both times. This is already clearly the last Smash game for a long time, who's to say Square will even be back here next time? Even if they are, if they weren't convinced to do it now, why the hell will they change their mind later?

I just find it infuriating because this is just how it feels to be a fan of the Mario RPG's in general these days. You actually look at a lot of the unpopular games Nintendo released during the Wii U era. Metroid Prime Federation Force, Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival. Those franchises got redeemed relatively quickly, Metroid got 2 games at E3 2017, Mario Tennis Aces was pretty good, New Horizons exists. Obviously not every franchise got has got what they deserve like Star Fox but atleast it doesn't feel any worse.

Now look at where the Mario RPG's were in 2016. Sticker Star was 4 years old and almost universally despised by the fans as the antithesis of everything a Paper Mario game should be. They announce a SEQUEL to that game, where it doesn't seem like they've learned anything, and it's generally not taken very well. Even when the game comes out it's only really a slightly improved version of Sticker Star. Mario and Luigi is doing ok but Paper Jam is very sterile, but at the same time taken as more of a consequence of the crossover than anything else, since that's what the dev's said.

Where are we in 2020? Mario and Luigi is DEAD, we got two decent remakes and Alphadream went bankrupt. Meanwhile for Paper Mario, we got Origami King announced which STILL APTLY REFUSED to go back to the traditional gameplay, and more importantly TONE of the original three games. But instead of the fanbase rallying against it again, we've ended up with 7 straight months of fighting over whether or not it's good and if Nintendo actually should go back to the old style. The game still sold well though, so I sure am glad the only future for the Mario RPG's is PAPER, GREAAAAAAAT.

It just feels like rather than the state of the Mario RPG's improving, it's just progressively getting worse, and Geno not getting in AGAIN is just the cherry on top for me.

Gotta admit, this is the exact reason why it's upsetting to me too. I haven't played too many of the RPGs (beyond the original Super Mario RPG of course), deeply, but it's hard, even as an onlooker, to not feel annoyed by the state of affairs with them, especially the limbo that is modern Paper Mario. Doesn't help that Mario's 35th has felt, to me at least, pretty lackluster. I really felt like Geno's reveal could have helped with that, but sadly, the Mario RPG curse strikes again.

 

[Flynn__]

Well now that I had a few hours to reflect about what happened at the VGAs, I just wanna say two things:

-Even if Geno gets the deluxe Mii Costume treatment (which as some people made clear, after all this wait would be slightly insulting), I think it has been a great speculation cicle. The best so far. I think Geno had amazing chances this time and his fanbase has grown immensely. I'm very happy for our blue boy that after all this time with no game appearances he's considered a contender for Smash Bros.

-Sephiroth was a completely wild addition. He's the first non-protagonist to be added as DLC since Mewtwo way back in Smash 4 (if we count Arms has having an ensemble cast instead of a protagonist and secondary characters). In fact, the second DLC pack has been absolutely crazy: a character from fricking Arms, which I don't think a lot of people were expecting after Springman got hit by the deconfirmation trophy; STEVE from Minecraft, which I'm still wrapping my head around; and finally, one of the few video game villains on the same level as Bowser and Ganondorf in terms of iconicity. If Sephiroth wasn't a Square rep, I would say that Geno had amazing chances seeing the characters announced so far, but... sadly, he comes from Square as well, and thus I don't think we're gonna get another Square character apart from good ol' Sephi. The deluxe treatment will be nice, with (I'm pretty sure) an amazing remix of Beware the Mushrooms Forest for the Mario Galaxy and Paper Mario stages.

That said, I really hope Square really steps it up with the Final Fantasy representation. Not only from FFVII, I want songs and spirits from other Final Fantasies as well: I want a cool remix of Aerith's theme making it ready for battling, FFIX's battle theme, even something from FFXV... Whatever, anything is better than what we have right now. And of course seeing that the new stage is the North Crater, I want the best remix of JENOVA that they can create (the One Winged Angel one sounds pretty amazing tbh).

 

[SpectreJordan]

Best of luck next week, GenoBros. I’m personally excited for Sephiroth but I know this had to have stung. Here’s to him skipping the Mii costumes yet again.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Merit for Smash is not measured by pages on a forum.

It should be.

While this is not and never will be a metric for why a character should get into Smash, let's pretend it is, for the sake of argument.

Let's measure the Smash 4 speculation threads, by page count. Why Smash 4 speculation? Smash 4 speculation is the one time fan opinions mattered and Sakurai directly asked us for our opinions. It's the only reason K. Rool made it into the game.

Character Discussion

Discuss the characters in Super Smash Bros. For Wii U! Forums for existing combatants, as well as threads for DLC newcomers are in here for your speculating pleasure.

smashboards.com

Some threads are hard to retrieve because of characters being confirmed during Smash 4's life cycle, but this list should be more than enough to give you an idea of Geno's standing during Smash 4.

Ridley: 1952
K. Rool: 1233
Bandana Dee: 769
Isaac: 480
Rayman: 439
Krystal: 332
Wolf: 295
Snake: 240
Shantae: 207
Ice Climbers: 116
Geno: 96 (You are here)
Inkling: 94
Paper Mario: 60
Sceptile: 44
Medusa: 43
Wonder Red: 35
Shovel Knight: 15

The obvious biggest threads from that period got into the game, and there were plenty of other characters who have never yet made it into Smash with much higher post counts than Geno.

Yes, Geno's current social thread for Smash Ultimate of 3634 pages dwarfs the Smash 4 Ridley and K. Rool threads. But you know what? Sakurai is not asking for anybody's opinion right now. A lot of Geno supporters apparently did not think it was important to do anything with the golden opportunity that was given to them. It is doubtful we will ever see another ballot or that fans will ever have any way to directly influence Smash Bros character speculation again.

 

[Kektendo]

It's been a while since I've posted here, but hey yall, funny doll's not looking so good at the moment. I've wanted Geno for a while (I'm that guy who cosplayed Geno in front of his door lmao), and Sephiroth is definitely a blow. That said, I'm really excited for Sephiroth, since he looks really fun and I think he's a good pick (didn't think he'd work or be one of the chosen from that list of Square chars before Hero, pleasanty surprised). Though I'll admit I've been feeling a little bummed about Geno's likely Mii. I'm gonna be real, I feel like if Geno somehow avoids the Mii next week, it won't neccessarily mean he's in, but moreso that he's just totally snubbed, save for the spirit and online icon. I might be too pessemistic, but it's my current view. Slowly coming to terms with the Mii treatment, but here's hoping he can still somehow make it, at least for the next runaround.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I get what you mean, but I don't know man, Geno feels different from those characters for a couple reasons.

• With most Characters, why they aren't in is a mystery. Generally we just have to make baseless assumptions on why certain people don't get in. Not with Geno. It's pretty blatantly obvious the reason he's not in is the business heads at Square don't care about him or the game he's from. Honestly, Nintendo doesn't seem to either. What other character can you say was flat out said to be wanted by Sakurai in Smash, only for them to get shafted in favor of not one, not two, but THREE different characters from the same company. It really just feels like Square will NEVER budge on this. They put in ANOTHER FF7 CHARACTER before Geno.
• IS there really a next game though? Square was already hard to get back into Ultimate, and we got TWO chances in the DLC and got a different character both times. This is already clearly the last Smash game for a long time, who's to say Square will even be back here next time? Even if they are, if they weren't convinced to do it now, why the hell will they change their mind later?

I just find it infuriating because this is just how it feels to be a fan of the Mario RPG's in general these days. You actually look at a lot of the unpopular games Nintendo released during the Wii U era. Metroid Prime Federation Force, Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival. Those franchises got redeemed relatively quickly, Metroid got 2 games at E3 2017, Mario Tennis Aces was pretty good, New Horizons exists. Obviously not every franchise got has got what they deserve like Star Fox but atleast it doesn't feel any worse.

Now look at where the Mario RPG's were in 2016. Sticker Star was 4 years old and almost universally despised by the fans as the antithesis of everything a Paper Mario game should be. They announce a SEQUEL to that game, where it doesn't seem like they've learned anything, and it's generally not taken very well. Even when the game comes out it's only really a slightly improved version of Sticker Star. Mario and Luigi is doing ok but Paper Jam is very sterile, but at the same time taken as more of a consequence of the crossover than anything else, since that's what the dev's said.

Where are we in 2020? Mario and Luigi is DEAD, we got two decent remakes and Alphadream went bankrupt. Meanwhile for Paper Mario, we got Origami King announced which STILL APTLY REFUSED to go back to the traditional gameplay, and more importantly TONE of the original three games. But instead of the fanbase rallying against it again, we've ended up with 7 straight months of fighting over whether or not it's good and if Nintendo actually should go back to the old style. The game still sold well though, so I sure am glad the only future for the Mario RPG's is PAPER, GREAAAAAAAT.

It just feels like rather than the state of the Mario RPG's improving, it's just progressively getting worse, and Geno not getting in AGAIN is just the cherry on top for me.

We don't actually know whether it's Nintendo or Square, maybe Nintendo asked for Geno and Square refused, or maybe Nintendo never asked for him, we can't confidently say who it is that's not interested in getting it done (assuming he isn't in of course). I'd say that Geno is at least a bigger mystery in this regard than Ridley (Sakurai) or K. Rool (Nintendo) were.

I'm very optimistic Square will still be on board for the next game, they do seem to be troublesome to work with when it comes to extra content like music and spirits, but despite that they have more unique characters in the game than any other 3rd party company. Granted Capcom might still get another character, but for Square to have more characters than companies like Sega and Namco, who are known to have a very strong relationship with Nintendo, tells me that at least on the character front they're well on board with Smash. With that said, I agree it's not much comfort, because the next game is nothing but one big hypothetical right now, we can't assume anything about it or how its roster will be picked.

With how bleak the situation is looking, Geno fans have every right to be disappointed, both at his situation in Smash and at the state of Mario RPGs as a whole. Putting so much energy into something just for it to not pay off is always rough, and it's only natural be feel dejected at the end of it. The only thing I can say is that there are those of us who know what it's like when your hope for a character hits rock bottom, and yet we've come out on the other side with what we always wanted. That double whammy of Ridley not being in Smash 4 because of Sakurai himself, and then getting smacked by Federation Force the following year, was extremely tough to swallow, and not unlike what you guys are facing. It's likely that from next week on Geno fans are going to have to start licking their wounds, but once the natural disappointment has settled, I seriously hope you manage to regroup, because you simply can't afford to have a similar fallout as to what happened post-Brawl. Nobody can guarantee that Geno will one day be in Smash, but as long as there's even a 1% chance that it could happen, it's worth it to keep going.

Edit: Just to clarify, that last paragraph isn’t so much a direct response to you as it’s just me airing my thoughts on the situation.

 

[Misterfan2000]

I wouldn't want you to get hyped about this, but I have come up with a theory related to the Square-Enix DLC trailers:

What do Hero and Sephiroth trailers have in common? Their trailers occur in moments of World of Light.
World of Light is divided into 3 acts:

• Fight against Galeem (Sephiroth)
• Fight against Dharkon (Hero)
• Fight against Both

So, following this theory, there would be one character (supposedly from Square-Enix) left to appear during that third act.

And do you know what is the best?
That would look great as the last DLC Character Trailer in the life cycle of this Super Smash Bros.

What do you think about this theory?

P.S. As said above, let's not claim victory so easily, because they may reveal Geno as a Mii Costume at the Sephiroth's Presentation (Given what happened, I wouldn't mind at this point).

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

I wouldn't want you to get hyped about this, but I have come up with a theory related to the Square-Enix DLC trailers:

What do Hero and Sephiroth trailers have in common? Their trailers occur in moments of World of Light (Dharkon in Hero's Trailer and Galeem in Sephiroth's).
World of Light is divided into 3 acts: Fight against Galeem, Fight against Dharkon and Fight against Both.
So, following this theory, there would be one character (supposedly from Square-Enix) left to appear during that third act.

And do you know what is the best?
That would look great as the last DLC Character Trailer in the life cycle of this Super Smash Bros.

What do you think about this theory?

P.S. As said above, let's not claim victory so easily, because they may reveal Geno as a Mii Costume at the Sephiroth's Presentation (Given what happened, I wouldn't mind at this point).

Oh, you shouldn't have said that.
Now I want this to happen even more. How crazy would that be? Geno, a character who is essentially a SPIRIT, who fused in to the body of a doll (which, if you want to read in to it, could be reminiscent of Smash 64), starts out as a spirit in Smash Ultimate, and finally ends everything by defeating the final boss after acquiring a new form. Not that I'm the first one to propose that scenario, but the very idea would be so perfect.

Obviously I'm going to heed your warning about not getting too excited, but even so, I love this theory. Nice work catching that detail by the way.

 

[pinshadow]

So just checked the descrption of the Japanese Sephiroth livestream, 35 minutes long and no other reveals.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I know how you all feel as I was hoping for 2B. It's rough to see their chances disappear after so long.

Would you prefer to have his costume return or do you just not care at this point?

I would prefer to see Geno's costume come back whether than him not being in the game at all. But honestly, I'm still expecting Geno if we don't see his costume in Sephiroth's Presentation.

 

[Kalaam]

Hi guys, coming from the Isaac thread to support you, as this may feel like a serious blow to you.
Until we see a costume, all hope is not lost ! I think Geno would be fitting for a pass closer as FP6 of this pass.

 

[StarLight42]

Not really, to be honest.

I mean sure, I wanted BOTH Sora and Geno and I just got absolutely devastated with both of my picks being destroyed in one fell swoop and it stung a bit. But I've already made peace with it and basically moved on.

My post before came from a reoccurring problem I've run into with this particular sect of the Smash fanbase. You aren't allowed to have lowered expectations, you're labelled a doomer and you're told to shut up and stop "ruining the hype". I stop no one from wanting to enjoy themselves, but even trying to bring up the possibility of things maybe not working up is met with hostility and spite because how dare I not expect the moon and the earth to be handed to me.

I'll confess my previous post may have come off as a bit ruder than I intended but I've gotten so tired of being kicked around for not following the herd mentality, especially in Genocord. There's always the possibility of things not working out, how many times have the stars aligned for us only for the rug to be yanked out from under us? I say "Hype Responsibly" not because I want to ruin your fun, I say it because I truly hate to see everyone here and in Genocord get disappointed and sad, and it just keeps happening... because ya'll don't deserve to be yanked around like this.

As someone who’s been having my back recently especially on the Geno Discord, I got to back up MonkeyDLenny here. Don’t villainize him guys, that’s very very immature of you to do.
I had to spend the entire day explaining to people why I really didn’t think Geno had a shot to be revealed at a place like TGA, saying the odds felt far too stacked against his favor, only to be proven right to a horrifically sad level when not only was the the character not Geno, but someone who stabbed the masamune right through his little Puppet chest and is likely going to kill off his chances in Smash Bros. for good.

Neither me or MonkeyD wanted this. Monkey himself wanted Sora as well as Geno. I don’t know why you guys think we would celebrate the deconfirmation of a character we really, really wanted. It’s the hollowest of hollow victories.

Really hoping that Geno Mii next week can just give us solace and the willingness to move on, rather than immense crushing defeat, because i’m telling you, that day was yesterday. Better to accept it, move on, and come to terms with how things are. I even think I, myself, could benefit from this advice i’m giving, but I understand that it just isn’t that easy after being strung along for so long.

For those of you Geno fans that stuck with me and supported me even when I became the big bad hype responsibly ultra-jerk, i’m very sorry. You guys really deserved better and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I wish I could snap my fingers and change the timeline but there’s just nothing I can do. Hopefully you understand and can accept my heartfelt apology because it’s the only thing I can do.

For those of you who crapped on me consistently for tempering my expectations (despite still being optimistic about Geno’s overall chances...?), honestly, i’m still sorry you lost your guy. It’s a loss for both of us. I do however, think this should be some sort of lesson not to **** on people who are fighting for the same cause as you just for the reason that they are tempering expectations more than you’d like them to. Tough love.

I know this post won’t be received well, but i’m very much used to that at this point; and I really just have to give Monkey credit where credit is due.

That’s all. Not getting my hopes up for any of my Smash wants anymore, even if some of them do still have a chance. Sephiroth shook up speculation way too much for me to expect anything from the pass at this point, I have no idea what will happen now. I’m just glad Steve is in and i’m hoping I can pack it up from there.

Of course, still hoping for you guys (and myself, obviously) that somehow Geno dodges the Mii Costume bullet next week; but admittedly, even if that comes to pass, it just makes me even more wary that they may truly be saving his deconfirmation for the end of the pass or maybe even Pass 3. I’m not willing to go through this again.

 

[MrJudd]

Okay, it has been a while since last night and I had time to sit down and think about it. Still trying to process what happened and I can't lie: While Sephiroth itself is a cool character and an iconic villain, I feel like it was one of the worst outcomes to ever happen last night in General (this comes from a person who was already happy with Ultimate since Launch):

• First, let's start with my biggest gripe as a FF fan: why are seriously pandering once again for Final Fantasy 7? The series is so much more diverse and rich than a single entry, yet you never acknowledge the other things available. I get that Sephiroth is more popular than characters like Terra or Vivi (he should've been next, c'mon), but why another FF7 stage?
• Second, the classic music issue: Square only allows 2 songs per game and we haven't heard any new remixes on the trailer, which means they don't have anything new on that front. If they still keep themselves on this single game, this will be the worst pack of the entire DLC cycle content-wise and still leave huge gaps on FF representation.

As people said it here, I'll wait for the Judgement Day before closing the case on Geno. However, even if we are on the last week of the speculation cycle for this character or still have ways to go, I want to give a special thanks to this community and all of the amazing people on here for being so receptive. You all rock! As a friendly Ace Attorney once said: "the only time you can cry is when it's all over".

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Dream's dead. Geno didn't get in and neither did Sora. Nobody wins

Your wrong because you know who won? Secondary 3rd party fanbases. Now that Sephiroth is in characters like:

Dr. Eggman
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Chun-Li
M. Bison
Zero
Dr. Wily
Sigma
Tron Bonne
Gruntilda
Mumbo

Ect, ect are all on the table.

 

[Terry Badguy]

Welp, Sephiroth's showcase is practically going to be Judgement Day for you poor souls.

Either your most wanted is going to be cemented into Mii hell, or less likely, the gunner outfit's absence means they're adding him down the DLC road.

I honestly hope you guys do get him in, as a Shantae supporter I sympathize with all of you due to constant arbitrary scrutiny. They're fun appealing unique characters and people can just get over themselves and their inconsistent arbitrary bills of "deserving". Speaking of which...

As for Sephiroth...

This is coming from a guy who's username is a freaking Limit from the game he and Cloud came from.

Sephiroth is an awesome and iconic villain.

I grew up on a Playstation.

Final Fantasy VII is my Ocarina of Time much like how Crash Bandicoot is my Mario 64.

I was super hyped when I saw Cloud Strife, a character I grew up with but never actively wanted because I had zero faith FFVII could ever make it in. Even as the first Final Fantasy rep.


Do you really want to know how I felt about this reveal as a Final Fantasy fan?

All I saw was "Final Fantasy VII and it's compilation is all of Final Fantasy that matters".

In a sense.

Literal.

Pun intended.

Despair.

Unfortunately, there was no stopping this train we're on./ISPOILER]

GOD EXACTLY THIS

I understand you wanna promote your remake but seriously that's an insult to history

Cloud is in, he's a FF7 rep

Nos square has to chose from 15 other mainline games, a ****ton of spinoff, and we get FF7 AGAIN?

Come on why not Chrono? Why not Geno?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

At this point I've accepted that Sephiroth is in, and no amount of bellyaching I do is gonna change that. That said.. Why in the hell did they use the advent children version of one winged angel? The lyrical change feels so off, and I can't stand it. Changing the lyrics in an iconic song (even if it's just ominious latin chanting) is like the auditory version of rubbing your finger on wet paper.

 

[Flynn__]

Your wrong because you know who won? Secondary 3rd party fanbases. Now that Sephiroth is in characters like:

Dr. Eggman
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Chun-Li
M. Bison
Zero
Dr. Wily
Sigma
Tron Bonne
Gruntilda
Mumbo

Ect, ect are all on the table.

Well, I don't think any of those characters is near Sephiroth's level of popularity and importance within the gaming world. Maaaaybe the Sonic troupe, Chun-Li and being very generous Zero (but he's already an assist trophy), but the other ones no way. I think Sephiroth is the only villain/secondary character we're gonna see as DLC, to be honest. Maybe Tails or Eggman I could see it, but that's it.

Also, Sephiroth's Final Smash seems to be Safer Sephiroth, so what's with the scene with the Highwind escaping the crater in the trailer? Weird.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'll always go down with the Geno ship. He's not out till we're downloading the costume!


View attachment 295006

Part of the crew! Part of the ship!

 

[RingJ5]

“Hey, the first pass started off with your tied-most-wanted. Surely that’s a good sign, and one of the next four will manage to-”

2. No.
3. Certainly glad to see them in, but since my other most wanted was Chief, it’s not really a major win for me.
4. No.
5. No.

“Okay, so, we’re still getting another six characters. Maybe then you’ll see Chief, or your second-most-wanted Geno, or even your third Phoenix?”

6. ...Eh. Not all that bad, not all that amazing, it’s an okay start.
7. ...And there goes Chief, most likely.
8. ...And of course, there goes Geno too.

Throw in the Capcom leak making absolutely no mention at all of any further characters from them, and things have really, really, really been disappointing for me after that first one. I would genuinely have preferred that we got Sora instead of last night’s result, because it’s still a new franchise and there would be the chance for even the slightest hint of Disney representation. Hell, they could’ve at least had it be someone from a different Final Fantasy title, but they double-dipped from the exact same game in the series instead.

I have neither bought the second pass or even opened the game up at all since Min-Min released. There’s not exactly all that much of an incentive to play when your main, the aforementioned co-most-wanted, pretty much becomes a different, significantly worse character when playing the dog-**** online, and because of the CURRENT WORLD EVENT, local really isn’t all that much of an option at the moment.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

but I think the disappointment everyone here is feeling is the same kind of disappointment the Snake thread felt during the reveal of PAC-MAN in Smash 4.

Take Ridley, Banjo, and K. Rool, the three ABSOLUTELY HUGE characters of speculation in Smash 4. Constantly pushed down by detractors about being too big, or too irrelevant. Constantly going back and forth about how Sakurai says. As someone who was there as well. It sucks.

Flash forward two years though, two and a half for Banjo, and look where they are now. All I’m saying is there’s always a chance, however small it may seem to you guys, that this isn’t the end. Even IF the Mii Gunner gets in and becomes a PreMiium, as much as I know it sucks to hear, there’s always next game; or the way I see it, Smash Ultimate Deluxe.

Yeah, except Snake fans haven’t had to be constantly disappointed for twenty years and weren’t kicked around for a two year DLC cycle so that’s not at all the same.

Also Ridley, Banjo, and King K Rool are in this game and Geno probably isn’t, so that’s not at all the same either.

Finally: Another game? After Ultimate? Yeah, I don’t think Nintendo is going to start giving a **** about us now if the best they can do for us after twenty years is a Mii.

My room mate is really hyped for Sephiroth. Which is good because if I decide to stop supporting Nintendo, I have someone to sell this hunk of plastic to.

 

[Megadoomer]

Now that I've slept on it, I think I've gotten my thoughts in order. Sephiroth's a neat inclusion, and it's good to see them changing things up by including a third party villain. (Even if my first expectations on that front would have been Eggman or Heihachi Mishima) It just feels like Square-Enix is effectively holding Final Fantasy content hostage here.

I know it's been said that some (or at least one) of the third party companies made the idea of Everyone Is Here difficult to accomplish, and while I don't think it's been said who that is, it seems pretty safe to say that it's Square-Enix. Sephiroth's inclusion makes it seem like they would either have Cloud as DLC again (taking away the "Everyone Is Here" tagline), or they'd include Cloud along with the absolute barest minimum and save the meaningful Final Fantasy content for another Final Fantasy character (in this case, Sephiroth) as DLC later down the line. Maybe that's an overly cynical view of the situation, but that's what it feels like.

I feel like it's too early to call it quits when we don't know the Mii costumes, and it seems like there are going to be six of them at most (five if you count Chocobo, who seems like a given). There are plenty of options for Final Fantasy costumes (from 7 alone, Tifa, Aeris, and Barrett come to mind, along with popular characters from other entries like Terra, Kefka, Kain, or Gilgamesh, and series mascots like Moogles), along with other Square-Enix properties (2B or Emil from Nier? Crono from Chrono Trigger? Lara Croft?) and wildcards that could be included anywhere (Lloyd Irving, Monster Hunter).

I'm going to try staying optimistic, or at least hopeful. I'd like to think that they're aware that Mii costumes aren't exactly seen as great substitutes for making characters playable (they've avoided gut punches with the possible exceptions of Heihachi Mishima and Travis Touchdown), though hopefully this doesn't wind up like Ridley in Smash 4 or Skull Kid in Ultimate's base game, where they wait an absurdly long time to confirm a fan-favourite character's status for no apparent reason.

 

[Dinoman96]

Come on why not Chrono? Why not Geno?

Because Sephiroth is far more popular than either of them.

Not that hard to figure out.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Because Sephiroth is far more popular than either of them.

Not that hard to figure out.

In the Smash community? No. In the gaming community in general? Yes.

 

[Zema]

How much do Geno's character rights even cost at this point?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

How much do Geno's character rights even cost at this point?

Less than Cloud, the Dragon Quest protagonists, and Sephiroth's that's for sure.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

is anyone else getting a website issue where it doesnt show you the dlc fighter list??
because it usualy would? and when i scroll down i cant see any f the dlc characters except when i click "by series" usualy the dlc list would be on that page


just wanna know if thats only me?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Actually the opposite. Sephiroth was the only one of the Seven Squares that seemed to ever be pushed to be used as misinformation. If Sephiroth is "back", I'd argue that it stands to reason that he's trying to cover someone else but, like I said, Sephiroth isn't being pushed hard like be was for the 2018 VGAs. It's a whisper in the wind and, without context, possibly just a remnant of last year. You know when you share a "new" meme with a someone and they deadpan tell you they've already seen it? Same premise but with a guy with hair down to his ass and who could goose the bus driver from the back seat of the bus with his sword.

Obviously there's a lot to talk about today but I wanted to share this post from last November. Basically I'm admitting I made the same mistake with Steve and I'm not about to make it with Geno. Considering how many reputable insiders have heard Geno and how technically 4 of the 7 Squares are in the game in a playable form (with Sora being argued to have at least been attempted), I think it's too early to throw in the towel.

 

[CopperKoopa]

When Sakurai said Nintendo chose the characters for this pass, it really does feel like it. It has different feeling from Fighter's Pass 1 for sure.

So here's my hot take on all of that. What Sakurai has flat out told us is that Nintendo will cold call him or just show up and ask if he can include a specific character. He also told us Nintendo ultimately determines reveal and release for these fighters. Plus, for FP1, he did say that Nintendo chose the DLC but he had the final say if he could make a character work or not.

Throwing my own brain juices into that gumbo, I think what we can infer is that Nintendo has its list of who they want to see and/or promote, but Sakurai also has his own say and can reject Nintendo if he feels that the character is "difficult" or doesn't feel "right." Nintendo can then veto that rejection because, um, money and Sakurai has to figure it out. This was most evidence with Steve, where it was clear he enjoyed Minecraft and had given the character thought for a long time but didn't feel he could make it work until Nintendo probably forced him to. You can also kind of tell where Sakurai was at with each character by how he presents them to the audience. NONE of this is objective, all subjective, but felt like listing it out:

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy - Fan demand that Nintendo and Sakurai bent for. Not much else here.

Ryu - Sakurai himself stated how much enjoyed SF2 and wanted to see how Ryu could work in Smash. This was probably a case of "Can I get this happening, Nintendo?" "Let's check the books... hmm... Ok, sure. We're launching his games on the Switch anyway"

Corrin & Bayo - 100% shills, I don't care what you think. They came from the Smash Ballot (allegedly) but conveniently also pumped recent games at the time. I believe they probably did make a splash on the ballot, but it was something where Nintendo saw an opportunity and Sakurai saw something to hide behind when he made them into playable fighters ("But you VOTED for them, remember?")

Cloud - 100% Sakurai. FF was one of the top requested ballot choices and Sakurai said in an interview he was given access to pretty much whatever protag he wanted, but he said "it had to be Cloud." This was a matter of Sakurai knowing the pulse of the gaming community pretty well. Yeah, some of us wanted Terra or Black Mage or whatever, but it really did have to be Cloud. There was no other option. As far as Nintendo's say, they probably just saw dollar signs and gave the thumbs up.

Joker - Sakurai enjoyed Persona 5 immensely (per interviews/social media). P5 was THE game leading up until the reveal. Joker did not get a Sakurai Presents video, but it's likely he was a fan. Seems to be a joint effort to get Joker in the game coming from both Sakurai and Nintendo. The lack of SMT content is super glaring and may point to Nintendo not thinking it was valuable to include at the time.

Hero - I think this is a similar position to Cloud, with some Corrin tossed in for good measure. DQ had to be highly requested and it made sense to include; Sakurai knew the gaming community was expecting it. Nintendo also saw an opportunity to work with a 3rd party developer and shill a game at the same time. Totally speculation here, but maybe everyone heard Erdrick because it was Erdrick until Nintendo added a stipulation that 11 had to be the main costume.

Banjo - This feels like NOA pushed for this character. Banjo is wildly popular in the West, while Rare games sort of... existed?... in Japan. I can see Nintendo of Japan basically saying "you're allowed ONE character, NOA" and Treehouse went "GUH-HUH" and that was it. Sakurai did NOT seem enthused about this character one bit during the Presents video, and I know I'm not the only one who caught that vibe. He knew the demand was there and spoke of the character in the past, somewhat highly too, but I would be shocked if Sakurai had Banjo on "the shortlist" of characters he absolutely wanted to put into the game. For what it's worth tho, Banjo feels like a throwback character in so many ways, so it's evidence Sakurai had thought about how they'd play for a while prior to Ultimate.

Terry - This one's clearly Sakurai bias, and that's fine. Nintendo probably threw him a bone and said "you get one, Mr. Sakurai." SNK had also been very supportive of the Switch since Day 1, so it only made sense. Sakurai extensively talked about this character and why, even throwing in that "just because you don't recognize someone doesn't mean they aren't a cool idea" line

Byleth - Corrin 2.0

Min Min - This feels like another Nintendo decision. They probably realized that ARMS sold decently enough but hadn't become another Splatoon like they wanted. Sakurai mentioned timing was off for including playable ARMS characters in Smash. Add these two together and it kind of paints the picture that Nintendo had wanted ARMS in base game and didn't get it in time. Sakurai also explained why he chose this specific character as well, and it boiled down to "I didn't know who to pick so I was going to pick the most generic fighter but I got told so uh... here's the one everyone loves instead."

Steve - Very well explained, imo, already. Sakurai sat on this for a while and couldn't come up with an idea. He was a fan, but didn't think it could work easily. Nintendo kept pushing him on it and finally he caved. End of story.

Sephiroth - This is likely several things, but most similar to Cloud. Nintendo probably approached or were approached by Square and the conversation led to getting another character. I bet the 7 Squares leak was legit and this had been cooking for a while. They settled on Sephiroth because of Sakurai bias and the fact that they knew this character would have mass appeal due to his legacy, plus he'd make $$$. Love it or hate it, Sephiroth was dumb popular on Japanese polls and he absolutely appeals to that Western boomer demographic moreso than Geno. Sakurai maybe always had Sephiroth in the back of his mind too, considering how much of a hard-on he clearly has for FF7.

 

[MrJudd]

is anyone else getting a website issue where it doesnt show you the dlc fighter list??
because it usualy would? and when i scroll down i cant see any f the dlc characters except when i click "by series" usualy the dlc list would be on that page


just wanna know if thats only me?

No, you're not the only one.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

No, you're not the only one.

that really is strange, because before i went to bed last night, when thy were adding sephiroth, i saw 4 slots instead of 3? and then boom the dlc part disappears???

if it were a glitch they would have fixed it by now...
falso hope i think but;;

 

[CopperKoopa]

Could anyone get into contact with PracticalBrush again, see if they knew anything? They insinuated they had no clue but that last night's reveal would maybe confirm something for them...

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry about that lame attempt at a goodbye I think I overacted due to everything happening.

I’m still here and will continue too be again sorry. Still supporting Geno for a future Super Smash Bros. Happy too see Sephiroth though.