Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Enigma735]

Honestly, I really struggle to determine whether or not I do believe CP8 would have been revealed at E3 if that was the original plan. On one hand, it makes sense if you consider COVID and its possible they may have intended for Min Min to release in the Spring, but on the other hand, I also think revealing the identity of the ARMS fighter at E3 along with Steve sounds like a very Nintendo thing to do so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the original plan.

Either way however, I don't think whether or not CP8 was supposed to be an E3 reveal really affects Geno's chances, since I consider Geno to be both either an E3-tier reveal or a random Direct-tier reveal.

 

[MattX20]

R RetrogamerMax It's just a funny thing we've been postulating on Star Road for the past month for a number of reasons:

-With everything being pushed back 4-5 months, Nintendo's "E3" presentation would theoretically be mid November at the latest.

-Nintendo's perfect track record for major presentations in November since 2012.

-Mario 3D World Deluxe is literally the only first party game announced for 2021 so far and that was announced two months ago already.

-Nintendo's Amiibo waves are already scheduled through March.

-A long history of Nintendo's "year" typically beginning in March or April.

-Mario Smash tournament delayed not once but twice to December.

-Tournaments being super consistent since the summer but, strangely, the first week of November doesn't have anything scheduled yet.

-Amiibo theory suggests an early to mid November reveal of some kind and it's currently 8 for 8 as a predictor.

-DOOM Eternal is still missing along with Nomura's "surprise for Switch fans" in the "near future."

-Like I highlighted the other day, Smash has an almost perfect track record of November/December announcements since 2001.

Yep, it definitely seems to be lining up for something big in November, if not Smash related

 

[skydogc]

Yep, it definitely seems to be lining up for something big in November, if not Smash related

Plus, to add on to points already made, them having a December direct would likely be unlikely going by history.
They had full Nintendo Directs in December of 2011, 2012, and 2013.
They also had a Smash Direct in 2015.

Then again 2020 is so strange...
Maybe if we don't get Smash news in November, we'll get a Smash direct early December?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

R RetrogamerMax look dude, I didn’t mean to upset you if I did. It wasn’t intentional. We have differing opinions on what COULD’VE been and after all is said and done it really is superfluous because you could be right, I could be right, or we both could be wrong and it doesn’t matter because we’ll never know. I didn’t mean to come off as snobby or something because you seemed pretty upset earlier. So I apologize if you saw my thoughts like that. I’m the end it doesn’t really matter because whatever was gonna happen didn’t and we all know that Nintendo does whatever they want so sorry for making you feel like your opinion was less valuable because it isn’t. It’s just as valuable as mine. I really was just debating views and I didn’t mean anything personal.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

I think that in a non-COVID world, there would be a general direct early in the year which would reveal Min Min (trailer and all) with a release in Spring. Then at E3, we would get Steve and Fighter 8

 

[Fatmanonice]

Plus, to add on to points already made, them having a December direct would likely be unlikely going by history.
They had full Nintendo Directs in December of 2011, 2012, and 2013.
They also had a Smash Direct in 2015.

Then again 2020 is so strange...
Maybe if we don't get Smash news in November, we'll get a Smash direct early December?

This too.

Nintendo Direct - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

.

Going through Nintendo's history, the last big December General presentation was in 2013 but not only does Nintendo seem to make it a point to have "something" Smash in November or December each year but Smash is coincidentally the only major Nintendo franchise that has consistently had major announcements or releases in December since 2001.

2001- Melee release
2007- original planned Brawl release date
2013- Rosalina (first new character since E3)
2014- Japanese 4 Wii U release
2015- Final Smash 4 presentation
2018- Ultimate's release, Joker's announcement
2019- original planned Byleth announcement

 

[RetrogamerMax]

R RetrogamerMax look dude, I didn’t mean to upset you if I did. It wasn’t intentional. We have differing opinions on what COULD’VE been and after all is said and done it really is superfluous because you could be right, I could be right, or we both could be wrong and it doesn’t matter because we’ll never know. I didn’t mean to come off as snobby or something because you seemed pretty upset earlier. So I apologize if you saw my thoughts like that. I’m the end it doesn’t really matter because whatever was gonna happen didn’t and we all know that Nintendo does whatever they want so sorry for making you feel like your opinion was less valuable because it isn’t. It’s just as valuable as mine. I really was just debating views and I didn’t mean anything personal.

It's fine let's just not bring up the topic again.

 

[GenoDoge]

It's almost been 1 month since Steve's reveal, 4 months since Min Min's release, and 9 months since Byleth's release.

Where does the time go? It really feels like just yesterday everyone was hyped for the October 1st Smash reveal. However, Geno can't get here quick enough.

 

[novazvezda]

R RetrogamerMax It's just a funny thing we've been postulating on Star Road for the past month for a number of reasons:

-With everything being pushed back 4-5 months, Nintendo's "E3" presentation would theoretically be mid November at the latest.

-Nintendo's perfect track record for major presentations in November since 2012.

-Mario 3D World Deluxe is literally the only first party game announced for 2021 so far and that was announced two months ago already.

-Nintendo's Amiibo waves are already scheduled through March.

-A long history of Nintendo's "year" typically beginning in March or April.

-Mario Smash tournament delayed not once but twice to December.

-Tournaments being super consistent since the summer but, strangely, the first week of November doesn't have anything scheduled yet.

-Amiibo theory suggests an early to mid November reveal of some kind and it's currently 8 for 8 as a predictor.

-DOOM Eternal is still missing along with Nomura's "surprise for Switch fans" in the "near future."

-Like I highlighted the other day, Smash has an almost perfect track record of November/December announcements since 2001.

Fatman: spitting straight facts

Nintendo: ponders for a moment So what you're saying is.... you want us to do absolutely nothing and skip absolutely everything until 2021. Fine by us! By the way, Byleth 2 is coming soon.

 

[pinshadow]

• Steve was also developed entirely during the COVID-19 pandemic, making development difficult.

Well, that's certainly an odd bit of info, isn't it? Steve's presentation was recorded mid-August, in a fully playable state, stage and all. Let's just generalize and say that March is our earliest start of development then, given that's when the pandemic really hit global scale and lockdowns/closings began. So that gives about 5 months to a fully playable state and 7 months to release at most, which... is actually pretty reasonable, given Steve's relatively simple aesthetic and lack of voice work, even if he did require overhauls to every stage in the game, and previous DLC characters like the first few in Smash 4 were done in a similar timeframe when you actually break the numbers down. No, what's actually confusing me here is this.

• We know they work on multiple DLC characters at a time. It's just the obvious, reasonable, smart thing to do.
• We know that both Joker and Plant's data were in the game at launch, and Hero was in the Day-1 Patch. Hero, one of our 2019 E3 picks, was in development over half a year from his reveal.
• If Steve was meant to be our E3 pick for this year, WHY wasn't he even in active development until around March at the earliest? If ANYTHING, that proves he wasn't delayed, since his development time seems relatively standard.
• WARNING : ENTERING CRACKPOT THEORY ZONE
• Because, if we go with the assumption Steve was never delayed at all, which I genuinely believe knowing this, it raises a bunch of other questions and possibilities.
• 1. Steve was going to be revealed at E3 alongside Min-Min. Ok, simple and clean right? Yes... but it comes with it's own caveats. Byleth's presentation was recorded Mid-November, so that character was in the final polishing stages for over 2 months and basically done in January. So... were they just working on Min-Min for January and February and just didn't start on Steve until the Covid-19 Pandemic started? I mean, he said Steve was developed entirely during the COVID-19 pandemic, making development difficult, unless it's a botched translation or something it seems like he's saying it was all done remotely. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a Min-Min/Steve E3 but it still feels off knowing this.
• 2. So wait, Steve didn't start active development until after the Pandemic started? I highly doubt they were working on just Min-Min for those 2 months of January and February, so were they working on someone else? If Steve was never delayed, was he even MEANT to be 7? And if he wasn't who got swapped and why?

I've never really bought the whole "character got swapped for someone else thing" people have pushed, but the fact Steve wouldn't have started active development until March despite apparently being meant for E3 does not add up unless another character was going to be there with him. So, either E3 really was just Min-Min/Steve, or it was FP7/Steve, who got swapped for whatever reason.

 

[GenoDoge]

• Steve was also developed entirely during the COVID-19 pandemic, making development difficult.

Well, that's certainly an odd bit of info, isn't it? Steve's presentation was recorded mid-August, in a fully playable state stage and all. Let's just generalize and say that March is our earliest start of development then, given that's when the pandemic really hit global scale and lockdowns/closings began. So that gives about 5 months to a fully playable state and 7 months to release at most, which... is actually pretty reasonable, given Steve's relatively simple aesthetic and lack of voice work, even if he did require overhauls to every stage in the game, and previous DLC characters like the first few in Smash 4 were done in a similar timeframe when you actually break the numbers down. No, what's actually confusing me here is this.

• We know they work on multiple DLC characters at a time. It's just the obvious, reasonable, smart thing to do.
• We know that both Joker and Plant's data were in the game at launch, and Hero was in the Day-1 Patch. Hero, one of our 2019 E3 picks, was in development over half a year from his reveal.
• If Steve was meant to be our E3 pick for this year, WHY wasn't he even in active development until around March at the earliest? If ANYTHING, that proves he wasn't delayed, since his development time seems relatively standard.
• WARNING : ENTERING CRACKPOT THEORY ZONE
• Because, if we go with the assumption Steve was never delayed at all, which I genuinely believe knowing this, it raises a bunch of other questions and possibilities.
• 1. Steve was going to be revealed at E3 alongside Min-Min. Ok, simple and clean right? Yes... but it comes with it's own caveats. Byleth's presentation was recorded Mid-November, so that character was in the final polishing stages for over 2 months and basically done in January. So... we're they just working on Min-Min for January and February and just didn't start on Steve until the Covid-19 Pandemic started? I mean, he said Steve was developed entirely during the COVID-19 pandemic, making development difficult during the pandemic, unless it's a botched translation or something it seems like he's saying it was all done remotely. I'm not ruling out the possibility entirely or a Min-Min/Steve E3 but it still feels off.
• So wait, Steve didn't start active development until after the Pandemic started? I highly doubt they were working on just Min-Min for those 2 months of January and February, so were they working on someone else? If Steve was never delayed, was he even MEANT to be 7? And if he wasn't who got delayed and why?

I've never really bought the whole "character got swapped for someone else thing" people have pushed, but the fact Steve wouldn't have started active development until March despite apparently being meant for E3 does not add up unless another character was going to be there with him. So, either E3 really was just Min-Min/Steve, or it was FP7/Steve, who got swapped for whatever reason.

Everything about Steve's reveal felt so sudden and pulled together to me, like last minute they decided to switch the original #78 out with him.

 

[7NATOR]

Okay so after reading latest Article, I can more reasonably buy Min-Min being Planned for April Release

Sakurai did state in Steve Presentation that Balancing Takes longer due to having to work from home, and Min-Min was delayed because of Balancing Reasons. It does match up in that Context

Steve also would have that balancing hold up like Min-Min would, but because he was developed in whole the Pandemic, It would take even longer

So I Could see a Case of Min-Min being April Released, and Steve Being at E3. Now whether there would be another Character at E3, I don't know about That. I also don't know if Steve switched Places with another character. They do develop in 3's so FP8 Should be AT least in a Playable state by this point, and probably in the balancing stages

 

[Joshdabozz]

This is late but here are my thoughts on today's direct and when I believe we will get our next character release(not reveal);

Bravery default 2: I really want it to be good, but its clunky and seems slightly disappointing, but its the first game I really want on this list.
Story of seasons: not my type of game
Surviving the aftermath: looks boring
Immortal Fenyx Rising; Looks bad as heck, very dissapointed
Bakagon: oh yeah this game
Griftlands: looks cool, but not into card games, if I was this would be an insta purchase
Tropica 6: not my type of game

Up until this point I barley cared for this direct, but the next 5 announcements changed things

Hitman 3: HOLY **** WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WHY IS HITMAN ON MY SCREEN HOW IS THIS ON SWITCH! OH MY GOD I DO NOT CARE THAT THIS IS CLOUD VERSION I WANT IT NOW
Control: Never heard of it, but now I really want it after I played the demo.
NMH 3, 1, and 2: Hell yeah, these will be purchased at some point and I will enjoy the hell out of them
UFO: oh cute, not my type of game, but im excited for some reason
Hyrule Warriors: HELL YEAH I LOVE THIS IM SO EXCITED

Anyways I said it before, but December smash character is probs gonna get revealed, and maybe a December/January release

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

So the only 7-11 ad that didn't end up coming along with a character was in April, but Min Min was originally meant to be released in April, correct?

Also, not to get too off topic, but am I the only one that can't get behind Bravely Default's artstyle? There's something about its "half-chibi" sort of look that's just kinda off-putting to me.

 

[Fatmanonice]

× It comes to light that Steve was potentially bumped up because of his difficulty to program and having to work with a Western developer during a pandemic.

WTF are we supposed to do with this piece of information? This suggests to me that Steve was potentially 78 or even 79... What the wholesale **** even is this year at this point?

 

[GenoDoge]

× It comes to light that Steve was potentially bumped up because of his difficulty to program and having to work with a Western developer during a pandemic.


View attachment 290600

WTF are we supposed to do with this piece of information? This suggests to me that Steve was potentially 78 or even 79... What the wholesale **** even is this year at this point?

This might mean Geno really was supposed to be #77. Oh my...you're right. What is even going on?

 

[Cahalan]

Okay how in the heck did that even come to light?

I must be high or something.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This might mean Geno really was supposed to be #77. Oh my...you're right. What is even going on?

I'm about to nuke my spoons for the rest of the day but this could also explain why so many insiders were teasing Geno instead of Steve in July... Why would they tease them out of order unless they didn't know themselves that the order was changed? Son of a *****...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Okay how in the heck did that even come to light?

I must be high or something.

Apparently Steve didn't even begin development until March which is insanely late if he was meant to be an E3 reveal. For frame of reference, Hero was already programmed in the game to an extent as of December 2018 and Sakurai acknowledged that Banjo started work around this time too.

 

[Cahalan]

From the sound of it, they wanted to get the insanely difficult stuff out of the way first?

A lot of stuff seems fishy about all this.

 

[GenoDoge]

From the sound of it, they wanted to get the insanely difficult stuff out of the way first?

This implies to me Min Min and Steve are the most complicated characters in the Pass.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I'm about to nuke my spoons for the rest of the day but this could also explain why so many insiders were teasing Geno instead of Steve in July... Why would they tease them out of order unless they didn't know themselves that the order was changed? Son of a *****...

It was something I speculated a while back, now it seems like it could be true. Insiders back then were teasing Geno, because they were hearing info and came to the conclusion that the next Smash fighter was coming soon and that it would be Geno... only for Nintendo to shake up their plans behind the scenes, leading to them essentially rooster-blocking everyone with the first Partner Showcase. And yes, I used the word "rooster" because I've no idea if a certain synonym for that word is allowed here.

 

[skydogc]

× It comes to light that Steve was potentially bumped up because of his difficulty to program and having to work with a Western developer during a pandemic.


View attachment 290600

WTF are we supposed to do with this piece of information? This suggests to me that Steve was potentially 78 or even 79... What the wholesale **** even is this year at this point?

There's a level of...just...straight up mind****ery that I can't even...
I mean the idea of "okay this character requires us to basically redesign all the stages at a functional level to account for his mechanics to properly work" means he should have been pushed back right? That's a rational thought and a solid plan.
Min Min
Normal Fighter
Normal Fighter
GUY WHO DEMANDS EVERY STAGE BE BASICALLY RECREATED ON A PROGRAMMING LEVEL <-- yeah let's move him forward?

THE HELL KINDA DECISION MAKING IS THAT!?!?

 

[GenoDoge]

There's a level of...just...straight up mind****ery that I can't even...
I mean the idea of "okay this character requires us to basically redesign all the stages at a functional level to account for his mechanics to properly work" means he should have been pushed back right? That's a rational thought and a solid plan.
Min Min
Normal Fighter
Normal Fighter
GUY WHO DEMANDS EVERY STAGE BE BASICALLY RECREATED ON A PROGRAMMING LEVEL <-- yeah let's move him forward?

THE HELL KINDA DECISION MAKING IS THAT!?!?

I think the idea is that they wanted to get him finished. I guess for if the pandemic gets even worse during development, it doesn't become an impossible nightmare to finish Steve.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Alright, let's spike my blood pressure:

November 2018: Plant, Joker, Hero (greenlit)

December 2018: Plant (polish), Joker, Hero, Banjo (greenlit)

February 2019: Joker (polish), Hero, Banjo, Terry (greenlit)

April 2019: Hero (polish), Banjo, Terry, Byleth (greenlit)

July 2019: Banjo (polish), Terry, Byleth, Min Min (greenlit)

September 2019: Terry (polish), Byleth, Min Min, 7 (greenlit)

November 2019: Byleth (polish), Min Min, 7, 8 (greenlit)

January 2020: Min Min (polish), 7, 8, 9 (greenlit)

March 2020: Min Min is delayed, Steve begins development

Alternate Universe where COVID-19 didn't **** everything up:

April 2020: 7 (polish), 8, 9, 10 (greenlit)

So, based on this new information, this actually suggests Steve was originally 9...

7 and 8: E3 reveals

9: fall 2020

If Steve "wasn't delayed" then this suggests that Steve was always meant to be a fall 2020 release. So, this being said... Where are the original 7 and 8?

 

[ctt4lfecw]

So, this means Geno was going to be 77 after all?

 

[GenoDoge]

Alright, let's spike my blood pressure:

November 2018: Plant, Joker, Hero (greenlit)

December 2018: Plant (polish), Joker, Hero, Banjo (greenlit)

February 2019: Joker (polish), Hero, Banjo, Terry (greenlit)

April 2019: Hero (polish), Banjo, Terry, Byleth (greenlit)

July 2019: Banjo (polish), Terry, Byleth, Min Min (greenlit)

September 2019: Terry (polish), Byleth, Min Min, 7 (greenlit)

November 2019: Byleth (polish), Min Min, 7, 8 (greenlit)

January 2020: Min Min (polish), 7, 8, 9 (greenlit)

March 2020: Min Min is delayed, Steve begins development

Alternate Universe where COVID-19 didn't **** everything up:

April 2020: 7 (polish), 8, 9, 10 (greenlit)

So, based on this new information, this actually suggests Steve was originally 9...

7 and 8: E3 reveals

9: fall 2020

If Steve "wasn't delayed" then this suggests that Steve was always meant to be a fall 2020 release. So, this being said... Where are the original 7 and 8?

MFW plans for Fighter's Pass 2 and thus Geno likely began not too long before Hero's release. MFW Geno was likely to be #77 all along.

 

[MattX20]

Alright, let's spike my blood pressure:

November 2018: Plant, Joker, Hero (greenlit)

December 2018: Plant (polish), Joker, Hero, Banjo (greenlit)

February 2019: Joker (polish), Hero, Banjo, Terry (greenlit)

April 2019: Hero (polish), Banjo, Terry, Byleth (greenlit)

July 2019: Banjo (polish), Terry, Byleth, Min Min (greenlit)

September 2019: Terry (polish), Byleth, Min Min, 7 (greenlit)

November 2019: Byleth (polish), Min Min, 7, 8 (greenlit)

January 2020: Min Min (polish), 7, 8, 9 (greenlit)

March 2020: Min Min is delayed, Steve begins development

Alternate Universe where COVID-19 didn't **** everything up:

April 2020: 7 (polish), 8, 9, 10 (greenlit)

So, based on this new information, this actually suggests Steve was originally 9...

7 and 8: E3 reveals

9: fall 2020

If Steve "wasn't delayed" then this suggests that Steve was always meant to be a fall 2020 release. So, this being said... Where are the original 7 and 8?

This feels more confusing than Twin Peaks

 

[Cahalan]

So, this means Geno was going to be 77 after all?

Maybe so.

Still trying to process this whirlwind of info.

 

[GenoDoge]

Maybe E3 was supposed to have Geno and Crash? My brain just is so excited about this breakthrough lol. Anyway, got to go for a bit. Hope more exciting developments have happened when I come back.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Me trying to process this information

 

[7NATOR]

I can maybe buy that 1 Character was delayed in favor of Steve, Especially since 3 Characters are developed at a Time, but I can't buy 2 Characters. I think Steve at the Very Least was always meant to be among the first 3 Characters, considering he's a Pass Seller on his own, and you need those characters to come out the gate

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Alright, let's spike my blood pressure:

November 2018: Plant, Joker, Hero (greenlit)

December 2018: Plant (polish), Joker, Hero, Banjo (greenlit)

February 2019: Joker (polish), Hero, Banjo, Terry (greenlit)

April 2019: Hero (polish), Banjo, Terry, Byleth (greenlit)

July 2019: Banjo (polish), Terry, Byleth, Min Min (greenlit)

September 2019: Terry (polish), Byleth, Min Min, 7 (greenlit)

November 2019: Byleth (polish), Min Min, 7, 8 (greenlit)

January 2020: Min Min (polish), 7, 8, 9 (greenlit)

March 2020: Min Min is delayed, Steve begins development

Alternate Universe where COVID-19 didn't **** everything up:

April 2020: 7 (polish), 8, 9, 10 (greenlit)

So, based on this new information, this actually suggests Steve was originally 9...

7 and 8: E3 reveals

9: fall 2020

If Steve "wasn't delayed" then this suggests that Steve was always meant to be a fall 2020 release. So, this being said... Where are the original 7 and 8?

I bet if Steve was originally 9, 7 and 8 were originally Geno and Crash and they were planned to be the E3 reveals before the event got cancelled and COVID screwed the schedule up.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean... From a development standpoint it makes a ton of sense... Bumping up the most difficult character during unironically the hardest time in recent human history to be a game developer... Not to mention this could also explain why Sakurai made a point of pointing out how working with certain companies during the pandemic was a huge obstacle...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It’s kind of crazy to imagine what they had to go through in terms of discussions with Steve. Not only did the Japanese Nintendo/Sora/Namco have to go through the American Microsoft multiple times but also the Swedish Mojang probably even more times. That’s 3 layers of translation that had to be had just about every conversation over the course of 5 years. Lmao what a nightmare.

 

[Mr. Peepee]

Yeah, Steve is probably one of if not the hardest character the dev team has ever had to work on. Western communication, COVID, and the number of stages they had to edit for Steve's moveset to work.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm sitting here thinking what the hell is this timeline we are living in.

 

[skydogc]

I'm sitting here thinking what the hell is this timeline we are living in.

Think of the 3 Zelda timelines.

Now we're in the 4th with the CDi games and the infamous cartoon "Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me princess!"

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Think of the 3 Zelda timelines.

Now we're in the 4th with the CDi games and the infamous cartoon "Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me princess!"

Basically:

M Is Real 2020.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

Basically:

M Is Real 2020.

That video is glorious.