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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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MattOnwheels

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Okay... Yes... Yes... Fine... I definitely recognize that the Grinch turned half the Smash fanbase into doomers but somedays it's over the top. "We'll be lucky if we get one popular character out of the 6." I mean, ****, I've worked with homeless people with more hope than people like this. People
missing most of their teeth and had limbs literally rotting underneath bandages and layers of covering who weren't this goddamn dumpy all the time. NintenDOOMED wears thin easily but this whole idea that Ultimate is going to end on totally tepid "wow, who cares" additions is especially grating.
Now now, Fat. Let us not forget that as much as we all WANT Nintendo to "Save the best fighters for last" there's absolutely nothing that prevents them from pulling a Byleth or Corrin on us either. In my opinion "NintenDoomed" isn't exactly something we need to be afraid of...yet,,,but as of September 1st it's definately a completely possible outcome and there's an argument to be made that, for one reason or another, we're slowly starting to head in that direction,

Of course, Nintendo is always free to relieve us of these fears at any time..........

.......aaaaaaaaaaaaany time now..........

1598990242966.jpeg
 
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SNEKeater

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When people thinks of Cloud, thinks about Final Fantasy VII (or the entire franchise as a whole). Not KH Chain of Memories or a FF spin-off. True, he appeared in those games, but this is basically a grey area if you ask me. Cloud having small appearences on Nintendo consoles was at most a courtesy for Sakurai when he decided on adding a FF character. Cloud was the logical option, he was the most popular one and the most well known one, even if his game never released on Nintendo platforms at that point.
Similar case with Joker, Persona Q2 came out literally one week before his reveal.

My point is, while both characters had some spin-offs, I'm like 99% sure Sakurai didn't even considered those games as something crucial for the characters getting or not getting in. As I said, at best those appearences were a bonus.

Even then, as far as I know Chief has a skin in Minecraft, so he has technically made a cameo. Obviously that's not the same as having his games on the Switch. I don't know if the Master Chief Collection will release on the Switch, but in this talk I feel Chief's basically in another whole league. I mean, he's the mascot of Xbox and a big character in the industry.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think he needs any game on the Switch to be worthwile of be in Smash, he's already worthwile in his own and the (big) fact he's basically the Mario of Xbox should put any discussion about his appearences on Nintendo consoles aside, in my honest opinion.

I feel the same about a Sony rep, for example. Not likely, I know, but I don't think a character such as Kratos (or any other Sony character) should be coming with his games to justify his inclusion. The fact he's the mascot of one of Nintendo's rivals is reason enough to skip any requirements, if there are requirements to begin with.
Being top characters in the industry and the mascots of Xbox (Chief) and Sony (Kratos), or at least, the closest thing to that, should be enough justification. You're not gonna see something like Mario vs Chief or Kratos in your regular videogame, and that alone would make these choices worth it. That's my take.
 
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Megadoomer

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Master Chief has a major hurdle to overcome: he has never appeared on a Nintendo console, even in a spinoff or secondary work. No character in Smash has broken this one rule, the only rule that even Sakurai pointed out. Not Cloud, who was in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories and Theaterhythm Final Fantasy. Not Joker, who was in Persona Q2.

Master Chief's prospects for Smash is almost entirely, to my knowledge, riding on the off chance that Master Chief Collection is actually coming to Switch, a rumor that was peddled by a dude who just today decided it was time to dip out of the speculation game (and I don't blame him)...

To use this turn of phrase in the best way it can be used:
This ain't it, Chief.
He's appeared through Minecraft (there's a Halo mash-up pack that's on the Wii U - it's presumably on the Switch as well, but I don't have Minecraft on the Switch and the DLC for the Switch version is in-game rather than in the eShop), which is about all that Cloud had in terms of Nintendo appearances going into Smash 4. (seeing as Cloud was a boss fight/summon in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories; he might have appeared in a rhythm game or something like that as well, but I'm not sure, since I can't remember if the Theatrhythm games came out on the DS or 3DS, when they came out, or whether it involved all of Final Fantasy or just the ones on Nintendo consoles)

It's not much, but it seems like a technicality more than anything; if they have the chance to include a major character in the industry, I can't see them turning it down due to a lack of a specific type of Nintendo ties.
 
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SNEKeater

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It's not much, but it seems like a technicality more than anything; if they have the chance to include a major character in the industry, I can't see them turning it down due to a lack of a specific type of Nintendo ties.
I agree. I don't see Nintendo skipping a major character in the industry, specially if it comes from their rivals, only because said character doesn't have games or any ties with Nintendo and their consoles.
Of course, they could refuse to add Chief for whatever reason, but because of not having Halo games on the Switch? I strongly doubt it, to be honest.
 

Icewolff92

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Yes, because you pull information out your ass and parade it as legitimate just for clout. You tell people what they want to hear and you've built a reputation of doing it for years. Nobody is dismissing your prediction, they're dismissing the predictions based on the phantom insider information you tell people you have.
Dude, I say this as one of the more critical people here on Fatman's sources, be critical all you want but don´t be a jerk about it.
 
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CopperKoopa

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Still behind on the thread, but I'm going to say that we have had entire direct leak on 4chan before. I'd go dig for it but I really can't right now. The entire switch presentation in 2017 leaked the day before or the morning of, I can't remember. All the smash presentation from E3 2018 also leaked.

But as I said in my own post, I agree with you guys this is probably fake but I still think it's fun to speculate and to keep an eye on certain ones that don't sound completely unreasonable because I'm always open to being surprised that somebody correctly leaked out information
 

MattOnwheels

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Remember that one Christmas Eve when Sakurai crawled out of everyone's Switch docks to play a 10 stock Fox-only match and then whispered in our ears that Geno was 100% coming to the game later on?

...What do you mean, 'that only happened to you'?
'Fraid not, I was too busy making easter eggs.

........IT'S NOT MY FAULT THE EASTER BUNNIES MAKE YOU WORK HOLIDAYS, OK?! :(
 
D

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Master Chief has a major hurdle to overcome: he has never appeared on a Nintendo console, even in a spinoff or secondary work. No character in Smash has broken this one rule, the only rule that even Sakurai pointed out. Not Cloud, who was in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories and Theaterhythm Final Fantasy. Not Joker, who was in Persona Q2.

Master Chief's prospects for Smash is almost entirely, to my knowledge, riding on the off chance that Master Chief Collection is actually coming to Switch, a rumor that was peddled by a dude who just today decided it was time to dip out of the speculation game (and I don't blame him)...

To use this turn of phrase in the best way it can be used:
This ain't it, Chief.
I think Master Chief is 100% possible now whether he gets into Ultimate or the next game. The “being on a Nintendo console” is a courtesy. Since Smash is more than a Nintendo crossover but gaming in general, they became less strict on Nintendo association. On Sakurai’s side, I believe he said we should forget about the consoles wars and Nintendo’s side, well they don’t see Xbox as a threat to their business and vice versa obviously from their partnership. Microsoft sees Amazon and Google Stadia as threats. Also, Master Chief technically did make an appearance as a Minecraft skin.


 
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Fatmanonice

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...does that really matter?




Thank you Fatman, this made me laugh super hard xD I really don't get people's fixation with gacha mobile characters. What are some of the more egregious examples you've seen people tout?
It's just miserably ironic to me that /v/ will call Geno unknown and unwanted and then with negative self awareness tout a character that's even more obscure that like 70% of them probably can't correctly pronounce the name of or choose someone that has glaring issues like being a Japanese exclusive, would make the ESRB have a stroke, or has virtually no demand at all. Sure man, y'all dunk on BWD fans but then parade a character that's largely popular because of hentai. Makes sense.
 

SpectreJordan

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Master Chief has a major hurdle to overcome: he has never appeared on a Nintendo console, even in a spinoff or secondary work. No character in Smash has broken this one rule, the only rule that even Sakurai pointed out. Not Cloud, who was in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories and Theaterhythm Final Fantasy. Not Joker, who was in Persona Q2.

Master Chief's prospects for Smash is almost entirely, to my knowledge, riding on the off chance that Master Chief Collection is actually coming to Switch, a rumor that was peddled by a dude who just today decided it was time to dip out of the speculation game (and I don't blame him)...

To use this turn of phrase in the best way it can be used:
This ain't it, Chief.
Smash Ultimate is the game that keeps breaking rules/trends. It’s not 100% confirmed that he’s happening, but he’s not impossible either.

Also, I really don’t think Cloud or Joker’s minor appearances really mattered. They didn’t come with any content from those games. You could argue that Cloud didn’t because of the weird legal issues with FF. But Joker came with content from THREE games & none of them are on a Nintendo console.

Speaking of FF’s content problems, I hope Geno can overcome that if he makes it in. Maybe the fact that he’s from a Mario game would make the rights issues less complicated for Smash.
 

Zem-raj

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He's appeared through Minecraft (there's a Halo mash-up pack that's on the Wii U - it's presumably on the Switch as well, but I don't have Minecraft on the Switch and the DLC for the Switch version is in-game rather than in the eShop), which is about all that Cloud had in terms of Nintendo appearances going into Smash 4. (seeing as Cloud was a boss fight/summon in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories; he might have appeared in a rhythm game or something like that as well, but I'm not sure, since I can't remember if the Theatrhythm games came out on the DS or 3DS, when they came out, or whether it involved all of Final Fantasy or just the ones on Nintendo consoles)

It's not much, but it seems like a technicality more than anything; if they have the chance to include a major character in the industry, I can't see them turning it down due to a lack of a specific type of Nintendo ties.
I seem to recall that Sakurai once said that a character "must carry game history with them" and mentioned that "it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform". This says to me that it would give a character an advantage if they had appeared on a Nintendo platform, but it's not necessarily required they have. The character just needs to be on Masahiro Sakurai's and Nintendo's radar, and that the character and IP holder would agree to having their character(s) included.
 
D

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Smash Ultimate is the game that keeps breaking rules/trends. It’s not 100% confirmed that he’s happening, but he’s not impossible either.

Also, I really don’t think Cloud or Joker’s minor appearances really mattered. They didn’t come with any content from those games. You could argue that Cloud didn’t because of the weird legal issues with FF. But Joker came with content from THREE games & none of them are on a Nintendo console.

Speaking of FF’s content problems, I hope Geno can overcome that if he makes it in. Maybe the fact that he’s from a Mario game would make the rights issues less complicated for Smash.
I seem to recall that Sakurai once said that a character "must carry game history with them" and mentioned that "it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform". This says to me that it would give a character an advantage if they had appeared on a Nintendo platform, but it's not necessarily required they have. The character just needs to be on Masahiro Sakurai's and Nintendo's radar, and that the character and IP holder would agree to having their character(s) included.
I think Master Chief is 100% possible now whether he gets into Ultimate or the next game. The “being on a Nintendo console” is a courtesy. Since Smash is more than a Nintendo crossover but gaming in general, they became less strict on Nintendo association. On Sakurai’s side, I believe he said we should forget about the consoles wars and Nintendo’s side, well they don’t see Xbox as a threat to their business and vice versa obviously from their partnership. Microsoft sees Amazon and Google Stadia as threats. Also, Master Chief technically did make an appearance as a Minecraft skin.


With all that said, Nintendo could literally add Kratos in the next Smash game if Sony is open.
 

MattOnwheels

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But as I said in my own post, I agree with you guys this is probably fake but I still think it's fun to speculate and to keep an eye on certain ones that don't sound completely unreasonable because I'm always open to being surprised that somebody correctly leaked out information
But....why that one?

Honestly asking, what about it seemed real enough to you to warrant posting here? Not blaming you, but... "Super Mario Super Galaxy"? Where was Mario Kart: Karting Mario Zoom Zoom Time?
 
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Megadoomer

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Aside from Geno (it's been at least fifteen years, maybe closer to twenty, since people have wanted him in; demand has been pretty consistent, aside from a dip in the Wii U era from what I recall, and chances seem much better for him now between the inclusions of Cloud, Hero, and Min Min), I'm not sure who I would predict for the remaining DLC.

I'd normally say Rayman, since Ubisoft is close enough with Nintendo to outright make crossovers with Mario and Star Fox, but the Smash developers have gotten permission to use him for the past two games now and he's just been a collectible.

I could see Ryu Hayabusa happening - he seems like the sort of NES-era character that Sakurai would go for, and Koei-Tecmo's closer to Nintendo now than (as far as I know) they've ever been, between multiple Nintendo-based Warriors spin-offs and their involvement in Fire Emblem Three Houses, a main entry in a Nintendo series.

Geno and Ryu Hayabusa are the only ones that I have any degree of confidence in when it comes to predicting, and even then, I'm not certain. There are plenty of characters that I'd love to see (Dante, Doomguy, Travis Touchdown, 2B), or ones that would make a lot of sense (Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Sol Badguy, Dixie Kong, Bandanna Waddle Dee), but I don't know how likely any of them are.
 
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MattX20

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Aside from Geno (it's been at least fifteen years, maybe closer to twenty, since people have wanted him in; demand has been pretty consistent, aside from a dip in the Wii U era from what I recall, and chances seem much better for him now between the inclusions of Cloud, Hero, and Min Min), I'm not sure who I would predict for the remaining DLC.

I'd normally say Rayman, since Ubisoft is close enough with Nintendo to outright make crossovers with Mario and Star Fox, but the Smash developers have gotten permission to use him for the past two games now and he's just been a collectible.

I could see Ryu Hayabusa happening - he seems like the sort of NES-era character that Sakurai would go for, and Koei-Tecmo's closer to Nintendo now than (as far as I know) they've ever been, between multiple Nintendo-based Warriors spin-offs and their involvement in Fire Emblem Three Houses, a main entry in a Nintendo series.

Geno and Ryu Hayabusa are the only ones that I have any degree of confidence in when it comes to predicting, and even then, I'm not certain. There are plenty of characters that I'd love to see (Dante, Doomguy, Travis Touchdown, 2B), or ones that would make a lot of sense (Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Sol Badguy, Dixie Kong, Bandanna Waddle Dee), but I don't know how likely any of them are.
Ryu Hayabusa's definitely a strong legacy character pick for Koei Tecmo, and as far as 3rd parties close to Nintendo go, Tecmo and Level 5 are surprisingly the only companies that don't have their content in Smash yet unless you technically count Fatal Frame. I'd be okay with him, Rayman, Shantae, Master Chief, Professor Layton, and Dante as far as 3rd party choices go
 
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Lord Woomy

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"Guys! The next character HAS to be (insert Japanese exclusive gacha mobile game character that's 4 months old)! This post from last year correctly predicted (insert one thing out of twenty) so you KNOW it's true!"
I feel this in my soul
Bonus points if the character is canonically 14 but is drawn to be at least 20
 

Vector Victor

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The Smash fandom seems to hold resentment towards 90s characters when K Rool, Dixie, Geno, Crash and Banjo were speculated. It was always complaining about '90s manbabies and their nostalgia overcrowding Smash!'

Meanwhile, of the Ultimate DLC, not only are 4 of the 7 characters from the 10s, its the second half of the decade. But 90s are the problem yea ok.
 

super88cloud

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Pictured: Sakurai negotiating with a Square Enix exec to get Geno into Smash.
So that´s really how Sakurai got Tendinitis
Sakurai: "So are you going to let me put Geno in Smash or what?"

Square exec: "Pfft, I don't see why we should. Peons like yourself can't fathom the unbridled glory of our IPs."

Sakurai: (picks up a family photo off the exec's desk) "Quite a lovely family you have there. It would be an absolute shame if something were to happen to them. Especially that little daughter of yours. Besides, I'm sure she'd much rather play with cute wooden dolls, wouldn't you agree?..."

Square exec: ".......where do I sign?"

(later that day)

Nintendo exec: "Wow! How did you ever get SE to agree to Geno?"

Sakurai: "Oh, I have my ways. Just ask Microsoft how I got Banjo...."
So is sakurai an assasin or a soldier?
---
It´s always funny that people think Nintendo is always near doom when you remember how they charge high prices for their games and are probably the only console makers who have never sold their consoles at a big loss.
If fatman´s predictions turn 3/5, that would be pretty ****ing good
 

Fatmanonice

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Dude, I say this as one of the more critical people here on Fatman's sources, be critical all you want but don´t be a jerk about it.
Boy howdy, how many times does this have to be said? It's like when I was in the Newcomer Speculation Thread the other week and someone made the argument that the only reason they were so aggressively critical was because of their autism and I couldn't muster a response. That's the reddest, rarest meat you could throw out for disagreeing with someone on a site like this. I mean, I get it... A lot of people here are on the spectrum or have ADHD (like me) or are just socially awkward as holy hell but that's a hell of a tent stake to drive into the ground. It just reminds me how in college how one of my friends at the time was very overtly a pervert and blamed it on his Asperger's and it's like "no, dude, stop..." and how it took like four of us to figuratively kick his ass to teach him that wasn't okay. Then you go on places like 4chan and then it's repeatedly some variation like "I'm sexist/racist because of my autism" and then use this as a crutch for any sort of antisocial behavior no matter how extreme. It's just faceplanting into stereotypes and a big reason why Nintendo/Smash fans have the reputation they do. At some point people have to realize that they are not just a chewed up ball of bubblegum of various diagnosis and that them and how they respond to the world is not build entirely on them.
 

MattOnwheels

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The Smash fandom seems to hold resentment towards 90s characters when K Rool, Dixie, Geno, Crash and Banjo were speculated. It was always complaining about '90s manbabies and their nostalgia overcrowding Smash!'

Meanwhile, of the Ultimate DLC, not only are 4 of the 7 characters from the 10s, its the second half of the decade. But 90s are the problem yea ok.
You know what's odd?

Weeks ago a certain user who founded another very popular character thread who I will not name tried to tell me that neither Geno nor Banjo, Ridley or K. Rool were ever known as "Never Ever's" by anyone...I just found it so strange considering who they backed and currently main. Why do people think we lie?
 

Lord Woomy

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Fatman predicts a character will be in Smash
"WTF Fatman, quit being a fraud, this character is not ever going to be in Smash and you're just pandering because it's a character man-child boomers want. Stop telling people only what they want to hear."
Fatman predicts a character won't be in Smash
"WTF Fatman, quit deconfirming characters for Smash, I want this character in Smash so they're a lock. You're just trying to put down fanbases you don't like by telling them their character isn't in. Start telling me only what I want to hear."
 
D

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Boy howdy, how many times does this have to be said? It's like when I was in the Newcomer Speculation Thread the other week and someone made the argument that the only reason they were so aggressively critical was because of their autism and I couldn't muster a response. That's the reddest, rarest meat you could throw out for disagreeing with someone on a site like this. I mean, I get it... A lot of people here are on the spectrum or have ADHD (like me) or are just socially awkward as holy hell but that's a hell of a tent stake to drive into the ground. It just reminds me how in college how one of my friends at the time was very overtly a pervert and blamed it on his Asperger's and it's like "no, dude, stop..." and how it took like four of us to figuratively kick his ass to teach him that wasn't okay. Then you go on places like 4chan and then it's repeatedly some variation like "I'm sexist/racist because of my autism" and then use this as a crutch for any sort of antisocial behavior no matter how extreme. It's just faceplanting into stereotypes and a big reason why Nintendo/Smash fans have the reputation they do. At some point people have to realize that they are not just a chewed up ball of bubblegum of various diagnosis and that them and how they respond to the world is not build entirely on them.
Nintendo fans need to grow up.
 

MisterMike

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Okay... Yes... Yes... Fine... I definitely recognize that the Grinch turned half the Smash fanbase into doomers but somedays it's over the top. "We'll be lucky if we get one popular character out of the 6." I mean, ****, I've worked with homeless people with more hope than people like this. People
missing most of their teeth and had limbs literally rotting underneath bandages and layers of covering who weren't this goddamn dumpy all the time. NintenDOOMED wears thin easily but this whole idea that Ultimate is going to end on totally tepid "wow, who cares" additions is especially grating.
I wasn't talking about the Grinch Leak. Rather, I was referring to the sobering realization that came with that day: that the characters a lot of people wanted simply weren't likely to happen.

You see, when Ultimate was formally revealed back during E3 2018, there was this immense sense of optimism that permeated discussion. After the bombshell of not only every character coming back, but that fan favorite Ridley (and Daisy to a lesser extent) was also joining the fight, it felt like damn near everyone was possible. From first party darlings like Dixie Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee, to third party hopefuls like Heihachi and Shantae, to even former Assist Trophy characters like Ashley and Isaac.

Of course, everyone knew that not every character people wanted would make it in. Sakurai told us not to expect too many new fighters for a reason, and it's wholly unrealistic to expect 20+ new fighters in a game that worked hard to bring back the 60+ characters from the prior games. But for the time being, they were able to convince themselves that their most wanted character was somehow different from the rest, that somehow their most wanted character was more likely to get in. "My character is more popular with the fans!" "Well my character has a greater legacy!" "But my character is more relevant to gaming as a whole!" No matter the reasoning, the sentiment is the same: My most wanted character is more likely than your character, and when push comes to shove, they'll be the ones to join the battle.

But when November 1st came and went, and when the final two base game characters were revealed, the sobering reality of the situation finally kicked in for everyone. Their character didn't make it, and while there's still DLC coming down the line, there's only five slots, so the likelihood of one of those characters being the ones they want is pretty damn low. It also didn't help that the last two characters revealed (Incineroar and Piranha Plant) left a very bitter taste in many a fan's mouths for various reasons, leaving many to realize that Sakurai/Nintendo are perfectly willing to include characters that aren't what the fans really want.

At this point, they could no longer delude themselves into believing that their character still had a chance, because to do so would only make things worse for them. So in response, they shut down and slinked away into the safety of indifference. No more hoping, no more wishing, no more arguing for the characters they want. They convinced themselves that, if Nintendo is choosing the DLC, there's no way they'll choose characters based off of fan demand. So they began to argue for what they saw as "safe picks", characters who fit a lot of the same criteria as the likes of Incineroar:
  1. They're from a popular/successful franchise.
  2. They have a new game/port under their belt.
  3. They are revelant to the current gaming landscape as a whole.
  4. They're from a franchise that is widely considered over-represented in Smash already.
  5. They're not as highly requested by core Smash fans.
  6. Their inclusion would be very disappointing for a large portion of the fanbase.
Such characters include Dante (1, 2, 3, 5), Sora (1, 2, 3), Steve before Banjo was revealed (1, 3, 5), Rex & Pyra/Mythra (1, 2, 3), a Gen VIII Pokemon (1, 2, 4, 5, 6), Phoenix Wright and/or Professor Layton (1, 2, 3), another Fire Emblem Character (1, 2, 4, 5, 6), or any protagonist from a brand new Nintendo franchise (2, 5 if we're being honest.).

Because most characters you see being predicted nowadays tends to fall under at least half of these criteria on average, people believe that they're the most likely newcomers for DLC. Conversely, because characters like Lloyd (1), Waluigi (1, 2?, 4) and Geno (1, 4) don't fit most of this criteria, people will react poorly to their names being brought up, and people who are particularly confident in their chances for whatever reasons will be shouted down as delusional.

It's just miserably ironic to me that /v/ will call Geno unknown and unwanted and then with negative self awareness tout a character that's even more obscure that like 70% of them probably can't correctly pronounce the name of or choose someone that has glaring issues like being a Japanese exclusive, would make the ESRB have a stroke, or has virtually no demand at all. Sure man, y'all dunk on BWD fans but then parade a character that's largely popular because of hentai. Makes sense.
You mean Reimu?

Boy howdy, how many times does this have to be said? It's like when I was in the Newcomer Speculation Thread the other week and someone made the argument that the only reason they were so aggressively critical was because of their autism and I couldn't muster a response.
Hmm, interesting. Can you DM me that comment?
 

RetrogamerMax

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I'm behind again (thanks American education in 2020). But there's a TON of 1st parties. Or do you mean just as DLC? I mean there aren't too many you could sell as DLC. But you're right about base game being the place for your Hat Goombas and Dixie Kongs.

I still think people are sleeping on characters like Elma or DK Jr. They could totally get people to buy some flashy new character or a retro revival as DLC. It's the stuff "in between" that is fuzzy.
Please don't compare Dixie Kong to Goombas as she is unique and deserves more praise. Comparing her to a Goomba is like calling Bandana Dee a hat Goomba which he isn't.
 

MattX20

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A thought occurred to me. If Geno's reception in Smash is positive, do you think it might make the hypocritical people in charge of Paper Mario/Mario RPGs in general start to realize the way they've handled things might not have been the best way?
 

TriggerX

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A thought occurred to me. If Geno's reception in Smash is positive, do you think it might make the hypocritical people in charge of Paper Mario/Mario RPGs in general start to realize the way they've handled things might not have been the best way?
No, because Nintendo is still doing well regardless. They continue to have success despite disappointing some fans.

There is really nothing from them to learn from, I mean even their launch sales(Oragami King) were positive compared to other entries in the series.

So regardless of what some fans think, they must be doing something right.
 
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TheCJBrine

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A thought occurred to me. If Geno's reception in Smash is positive, do you think it might make the hypocritical people in charge of Paper Mario/Mario RPGs in general start to realize the way they've handled things might not have been the best way?
Tbh that one reddit post shared here yesterday has me wondering if it really is just Tanabe. The rules the reddit guy mentioned seemed pretty fair + if the Mario Quality Assurance thing really did start around 1998 or, as that one ResetEra insider(?) dude mentioned, the Wii era, then iirc Dream Team still had those unique enemy-based characters in the form of Private Goomp, Seargent Guy, and Corporal Paraplonk (and maybe others), and Bowser Jr.’s Journey used them too (assuming it can count despite being tied directly to/in with the BIS remake, since they didn’t have to use them in the side-story, and really making a bunch of new characters doesn’t help brand recognizability/consistency either, if anything new/existing individuals of an existing race of characters would do that better).

Tanabe is also the producer, so he’s almost up top, though there’s still the chief creative director and whoever above him...

But yeah, hopefully whoever it is changes their minds. It’s upsetting and makes no sense.


No, because Nintendo is still doing well regardless. They continue to have success despite disappointing some fans.

There is really nothing from them to learn from, I mean even their launch sales(Oragami King) were positive compared to other entries in the series.

So regardless of what some fans think, they must be doing something right.
They should at least take criticism in mind, and realize it did well despite some of the changes due to still being cool and having good changes, but not because of all of them.

Tanabe even seems to have made it clear he’s aware of the fans’ criticism, but almost seems to not care tbh :S
 
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ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,984
Master Chief has a major hurdle to overcome: he has never appeared on a Nintendo console, even in a spinoff or secondary work. No character in Smash has broken this one rule, the only rule that even Sakurai pointed out. Not Cloud, who was in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories and Theaterhythm Final Fantasy. Not Joker, who was in Persona Q2.

Master Chief's prospects for Smash is almost entirely, to my knowledge, riding on the off chance that Master Chief Collection is actually coming to Switch, a rumor that was peddled by a dude who just today decided it was time to dip out of the speculation game (and I don't blame him)...

To use this turn of phrase in the best way it can be used:
This ain't it, Chief.
Oh boy, the dead 'never appeared on a Nintendo console' argument.

I'm disappointed in you Serenade, and now of no one's fault but your own, you will be part of the butt-end of my video that will eventually come out sometime this year.

Speaking of videos, I made this:


Hope you guys enjoy it, I did some commentary on what was papagenos papagenos most recent video at the time because some of the things he said irked me.

I made sure to mix in some laughs for good measure, but if it's not enough, I've also got these.

Geno shows 2B her place.png


Nintendo has no mercy.png



lord if you've guessed my game.jpg


 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
Boy howdy, how many times does this have to be said? It's like when I was in the Newcomer Speculation Thread the other week and someone made the argument that the only reason they were so aggressively critical was because of their autism and I couldn't muster a response. That's the reddest, rarest meat you could throw out for disagreeing with someone on a site like this. I mean, I get it... A lot of people here are on the spectrum or have ADHD (like me) or are just socially awkward as holy hell but that's a hell of a tent stake to drive into the ground. It just reminds me how in college how one of my friends at the time was very overtly a pervert and blamed it on his Asperger's and it's like "no, dude, stop..." and how it took like four of us to figuratively kick his ass to teach him that wasn't okay. Then you go on places like 4chan and then it's repeatedly some variation like "I'm sexist/racist because of my autism" and then use this as a crutch for any sort of antisocial behavior no matter how extreme. It's just faceplanting into stereotypes and a big reason why Nintendo/Smash fans have the reputation they do. At some point people have to realize that they are not just a chewed up ball of bubblegum of various diagnosis and that them and how they respond to the world is not build entirely on them.
If I wrote something wrong, then I do apologize. I´m just tired of people being jerks. And no matter if your info is right or wrong, you don´t deserve the hate you get from some.
 
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J. Bond

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
222
I remember half-joking that we're going to have a January Direct after all back in July, and that now seems to have become the general consensus. (without any valid foundation in my view)
 

RetrogamerMax

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MisterMike MisterMike R RetrogamerMax They deleted the post after mods started dishing out infractions, basically leaving behind an apology to the mods.
What a ****bag. Honestly, blaming your actions on your Autism or anything else you might have is one thing, but deleting your post afterwards is such a sign of dishonesty. If they really meant what they said, they wouldn't have deleted or edited their post.
 
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