Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

Still, these might be the biggest specific character glitches we've had yet for characters in this speculation cycle for DLC. The dress for Daisy on top of Marth is very strange

 

[Fatmanonice]

Decided to look into it in training mode and I think I figured it out. I'm pretty low tech so I can't do video footage but the thing Marth and Daisy share with each other but not with Lucina and Peach is indeed a clothing physics thing. I did max zoom and 1/4 speed and went through their animations. It didn't take me long to find but it's most prominent during their run animations.

-Marth has part of tunic below his belt and they're draped over the top half of his legs. They move quite a bit when he runs and turns around. Coincidentally, these "flaps" are in the same location as Daisy's lower dress portion would be.

-Daisy has a different run animation than Peach and thus their dresses move differently when they run. Again, as a disgusting, uneducated pleb, the best I can describe it is that Daisy's dress animation for her lower half is a lot more "dynamic." Peach's lower dress doesn't puff out near as much while Daisy's puffs out almost like a parachute. The movement of Peach's dress reminds me of a horse gallop while Daisy's is like an undulation or wave.

 

[MattX20]

Decided to look into it in training mode and I think I figured it out. I'm pretty low tech so I can't do video footage but the thing Marth and Daisy share with each other but not with Lucina and Peach is indeed a clothing physics thing. I did max zoom and 1/4 speed and went through their animations. It didn't take me long to find but it's most prominent during their run animations.

-Marth has part of tunic below his belt and they're draped over the top half of his legs. They move quite a bit when he runs and turns around. Coincidentally, these "flaps" are in the same location as Daisy's lower dress portion would be.

-Daisy has a different run animation than Peach and thus their dresses move differently when they run. Again, as a disgusting, uneducated pleb, the best I can describe it is that Daisy's dress animation for her lower half is a lot more "dynamic." Peach's lower dress doesn't puff out near as much while Daisy's puffs out almost like a parachute. The movement of Peach's dress reminds me of a horse gallop while Daisy's is like an undulation or wave.

Can you screencap it if not video record it?

 

[Vector Victor]

I don't know how, but I actually guarded against that one hit kill move on Star Hill. Those Pulsars are annoying.

Also, for a star themed dungeon, I expected more star enemies and less......geckos, bandits, gophers and mastodons in water.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Can you screencap it if not video record it?

Found this website that goes through the various animations:

Marth: https://ultimateframedata.com/marth.php

Daisy: https://ultimateframedata.com/daisy.php

 

[YsDisciple]

We've been waiting for news of perhaps a Smash Direct, a Nintendo Direct, or heck, another surprise Mr. Sakurai Presents video. However, what we didn't know is that... we might be getting a...
...
...
...
Mr. Miyamoto Presents... presentation.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

We've been waiting for news of perhaps a Smash Direct, a Nintendo Direct, or heck, another surprise Mr. Sakurai Presents video. However, what we didn't know is that... we might be getting a...
...
...
...
Mr. Miyamoto Presents... presentation.

Plot Twist: Camy Nowadays Presents

 

[UberMadman]

Not that it EVER made any sense from a programming standpoint, but “glitch theory“ is dead.

UH MIN MIN HAS AERIAL FALCON KICK IN HER ANIMATION FILES

WAT

— 🏳️‍🌈Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck🏳️‍🌈 (@Zeckemyro) July 2, 2020

Min Min’s base was Captain Falcon, not Bayonetta.

 

[RingJ5]

Not that it EVER made any sense from a programming standpoint, but “glitch theory“ is dead.

UH MIN MIN HAS AERIAL FALCON KICK IN HER ANIMATION FILES

WAT

— 🏳️‍🌈Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck🏳️‍🌈 (@Zeckemyro) July 2, 2020

Min Min’s base was Captain Falcon, not Bayonetta.

It’s not dead at all, though. Characters are confirmed to use bits and pieces of each other anyway even outside the one singular “base” character, check PG’s latest video for a longer explanation and a good example showing all of Hero’s recycled animations.

 

[GolisoPower]

It’s not dead at all, though. Characters are confirmed to use bits and pieces of each other anyway even outside the one singular “base” character, check PG’s latest video for a longer explanation and a good example showing all of Hero’s recycled animations.

Yeah, I was gonna say. Hero uses Link as a base, but the moves of 11 different fighters on the roster. But overall, there's that familiarity of Link that's still there with him. (Must be the sword and shield combo)

 

[Franauts]

A glitch that involves a cape, a dress and Daisy (a tomboy princess)? Don't do that, don't give me hope

 

[Fatmanonice]

Not that it EVER made any sense from a programming standpoint, but “glitch theory“ is dead.

UH MIN MIN HAS AERIAL FALCON KICK IN HER ANIMATION FILES

WAT

— 🏳️‍🌈Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck🏳️‍🌈 (@Zeckemyro) July 2, 2020

Min Min’s base was Captain Falcon, not Bayonetta.

I actually covered this topic back in February:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2387#post-23826396

A lot of characters are a hodge podge of different characteristics from other characters. Min Min shares Bayo's auto combo characteristics as well as visual transformation of her body. This Daisy/Marth thing, for example, seems to be specifically for the movement of a piece of clothing.

 

[Captain Fun]

Not that it EVER made any sense from a programming standpoint, but “glitch theory“ is dead.

UH MIN MIN HAS AERIAL FALCON KICK IN HER ANIMATION FILES

WAT

— 🏳️‍🌈Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck🏳️‍🌈 (@Zeckemyro) July 2, 2020

Min Min’s base was Captain Falcon, not Bayonetta.

It’s a junk theory that relies on people not knowing how the game is programmed so they can’t prove anything one way or another. Nobody here is very knowledgeable and can’t actually explain why these glitches happen, and those unknowns give people room to write their own fanfiction about Duck Hunt and Mii Swordfighter because nobody is going to be look through the games code to prove it wrong.

 

[Slime Scholar]

It’s not dead at all, though. Characters are confirmed to use bits and pieces of each other anyway even outside the one singular “base” character, check PG’s latest video for a longer explanation and a good example showing all of Hero’s recycled animations.

Similar animations are not recycled animations. None of the examples in the video are 1:1 copies of each other and some of them are so cherry-picked that they only work as still images. Mind you, the overall point that characters can use multiple animations from other fighters is still true (I believe Wolf in Brawl used animations from Sonic and Diddy), but it's already been pointed out that Min Min's Falcon Kick animations are 100% unused, which makes a compelling case that they're leftovers from when Captain Falcon's files were copied over as work on her began.

 

[Spatulo]

It’s a junk theory that relies on people not knowing how the game is programmed so they can’t prove anything one way or another. Nobody here is very knowledgeable and can’t actually explain why these glitches happen, and those unknowns give people room to write their own fanfiction about Duck Hunt and Mii Swordfighter because nobody is going to be look through the games code to prove it wrong.

Sir, despite your name, it doesn’t seem like you’re much fun at all

 

[Captain Fun]

Sir, despite your name, it doesn’t seem like you’re much fun at all

i get this a lot

 

[Deleted member]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why? That can easily be applied to literally any other rep. I see it more often for Reimu and Sora, if anything. Remember when the Overwatch case was announced? People were all about Tracer getting into Smash.

Isn't that the same thing? Yes, people get excited over potential evidence about their most wanted characters. All fanbases do. So why is it when we do it, it's considered abhorrent? Like, "Oh those Geno fans! They're so toxic!"

This type of behaviour is, in my eyes, disgusting. You're singling out a fanbase based entirely on a strawman that isn't even true. Yes, there are fans that take it too far, but why is generalisation so common within this community?

I've noticed this with the Shantae and Ashley fandoms as well, calling them pedos for simply wanting a character, or looking too deeply into things like the Smash window. Crash fans did the exact same thing when the Smash look-a-like lantern was shown, yet that's okay?

And just for the record, glitch theory does have *some* merit, such as figuring out what characters will become bases for the next DLC characters. Though it can also get things wrong. Hero was based more on Link than they were on Mii Swordfighter. Banjo seems more based on Ridley than Duck Hunt. And with Min Min, they were based off of Captain Falcon. However, most DLC fighters do seem like a weird science experiment of all various fighters combined into one fighter. Byleth in particular was an example of that.

At the end of the day - yes, theories can get silly. I know because I believed Google Theory had some merit as well. Looking back at it, it was silly, but it's a theory. It's not concrete. No one is claiming it as fact, and if they are, that's on them. To single out fanbases because of them putting weight into a theory (even if it does seem like bogus) is just dumb.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why? That can easily be applied to literally any other rep. I see it more often for Reimu and Sora, if anything. Remember when the Overwatch case was announced? People were all about Tracer getting into Smash.

Isn't that the same thing? Yes, people get excited over potential evidence about their most wanted characters. All fanbases do. So why is it when we do it, it's considered abhorrent? Like, "Oh those Geno fans! They're so toxic!"

This type of behaviour is, in my eyes, disgusting. You're singling out a fanbase based entirely on a strawman that isn't even true. Yes, there are fans that take it too far, but why is generalisation so common within this community?

I've noticed this with the Shantae and Ashley fandoms as well, calling them pedos for simply wanting a character, or looking too deeply into things like the Smash window. Crash fans did the exact same thing when the Smash look-a-like lantern was shown, yet that's okay?

And just for the record, glitch theory does have *some* merit, such as figuring out what characters will become bases for the next DLC characters. Though it can also get things wrong. Hero was based more on Link than they were on Mii Swordfighter. Banjo seems more based on Ridley than Duck Hunt. And with Min Min, they were based off of Captain Falcon. However, most DLC fighters do seem like a weird science experiment of all various fighters combined into one fighter. Byleth in particular was an example of that.

At the end of the day - yes, theories can get silly. I know because I believed Google Theory had some merit as well. Looking back at it, it was silly, but it's a theory. It's not concrete. No one is claiming it as fact, and if they are, that's on them. To single out fanbases because of them putting weight into a theory (even if it does seem like bogus) is just dumb.

Detractors: "lmao Look at all these Geno supporters making these bat **** theories, what a bunch of desperate weirdos"
Us: "Well, would you like to hear our well thought out speculation about why we think Geno is in?"
Detractors: screeching begins again

 

[TheCJBrine]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why? That can easily be applied to literally any other rep. I see it more often for Reimu and Sora, if anything. Remember when the Overwatch case was announced? People were all about Tracer getting into Smash.

Isn't that the same thing? Yes, people get excited over potential evidence about their most wanted characters. All fanbases do. So why is it when we do it, it's considered abhorrent? Like, "Oh those Geno fans! They're so toxic!"

This type of behaviour is, in my eyes, disgusting. You're singling out a fanbase based entirely on a strawman that isn't even true. Yes, there are fans that take it too far, but why is generalisation so common within this community?

I've noticed this with the Shantae and Ashley fandoms as well, calling them pedos for simply wanting a character, or looking too deeply into things like the Smash window. Crash fans did the exact same thing when the Smash look-a-like lantern was shown, yet that's okay?

And just for the record, glitch theory does have *some* merit, such as figuring out what characters will become bases for the next DLC characters. Though it can also get things wrong. Hero was based more on Link than they were on Mii Swordfighter. Banjo seems more based on Ridley than Duck Hunt. And with Min Min, they were based off of Captain Falcon. However, most DLC fighters do seem like a weird science experiment of all various fighters combined into one fighter. Byleth in particular was an example of that.

At the end of the day - yes, theories can get silly. I know because I believed Google Theory had some merit as well. Looking back at it, it was silly, but it's a theory. It's not concrete. No one is claiming it as fact, and if they are, that's on them. To single out fanbases because of them putting weight into a theory (even if it does seem like bogus) is just dumb.

Some people in there just don’t like theories and stuff for some reason.

Apparently it’s not healthy or something, and while I can see that for the people who look too deep into clouds and characters that happened to be used in trailers and stuff, and take it all too seriously...is the usual stuff really that bad? We’re all aware it could end up being false/wrong in the end, so what? It’s just fun to think about, and we at least try to base it on stuff we think is logical (but no, apparently you have to think in a certain way like everyone else and not stray from it for logical founding), and it’s not like we’re gonna throw a huge fit and be super depressed if it’s wrong. At most, some of us would just be a bit miffed then go back to normal after a short amount of time.

I mean, most of the theories seem to be based on actual stuff going on and not correlations to very vague stuff, so...what’s so bad about it? And why do some people act so mean about it anyway? I mean good gosh, that’s not healthy either, heck that’s worse and would just make things worse. It happens with Cacomallow, too, even if you’re leaning on fake and just think it has some plausibility left.

I just wish everyone could be kinder about this stuff...

 

[AdamBel731]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why? That can easily be applied to literally any other rep. I see it more often for Reimu and Sora, if anything. Remember when the Overwatch case was announced? People were all about Tracer getting into Smash.

Isn't that the same thing? Yes, people get excited over potential evidence about their most wanted characters. All fanbases do. So why is it when we do it, it's considered abhorrent? Like, "Oh those Geno fans! They're so toxic!"

This type of behaviour is, in my eyes, disgusting. You're singling out a fanbase based entirely on a strawman that isn't even true. Yes, there are fans that take it too far, but why is generalisation so common within this community?

I've noticed this with the Shantae and Ashley fandoms as well, calling them pedos for simply wanting a character, or looking too deeply into things like the Smash window. Crash fans did the exact same thing when the Smash look-a-like lantern was shown, yet that's okay?

And just for the record, glitch theory does have *some* merit, such as figuring out what characters will become bases for the next DLC characters. Though it can also get things wrong. Hero was based more on Link than they were on Mii Swordfighter. Banjo seems more based on Ridley than Duck Hunt. And with Min Min, they were based off of Captain Falcon. However, most DLC fighters do seem like a weird science experiment of all various fighters combined into one fighter. Byleth in particular was an example of that.

At the end of the day - yes, theories can get silly. I know because I believed Google Theory had some merit as well. Looking back at it, it was silly, but it's a theory. It's not concrete. No one is claiming it as fact, and if they are, that's on them. To single out fanbases because of them putting weight into a theory (even if it does seem like bogus) is just dumb.

This targeting of the Geno fanbase is the exact reason why our Ovaltine decided to be less active in here. It's unfortunate how fans can be worn down due to detractors and seething haters. Personally, I'd say it is a miracle Fatmanonice hasn't left yet with all of the stuff he's been through (and continues to go through).

I just want to remind people that there is still a lot going for Geno at the moment that even setting aside theories that people might consider "silly", his chances still are great. Like, yeah, fine, let's throw out the silly theories, Fatmanonice's "evil" theory-crafting, Cacomallow, etc., and Geno still has a laundry-list of things in his favor (to quote Thinwomanunderfire).

There is a light at the end of this tunnel. Ridley, King K. Rool, as well as Banjo & Kazooie fans went through so much grief too and they eventually got rewarded for their hope. You guys are targeted because you guys have been so steadfast and have hung onto Geno for so long! People want to see you guys give up hope because the detractors know the aforementioned characters above were seemingly "impossible" but they still got into Smash anyway! They're scared because they know the chances of Geno getting the same fate is high at the moment. Hang on Genobros, I have faith that your patience will soon be rewarded.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Like I told R RetrogamerMax . If the reason they did not include King K in the Switch port was Sakurai called "dibs"..... If that´s the cause, they could easily just talked through with Nintendo, and plan the port to release AFTER the release of Smash Brothers. So the notion of "Sakurai calling dibs" is something that I call bull**** on.

Hyle Russell the guy who runs DK Vine was the one that brought up that rumor and said he heard it from a source of his. I doubt he would be lying since he is the owner of DK Vine and DK Vine I believe has been the biggest DKC fansite for over 20 years.

 

[pinshadow]

It's almost like a good portion of the Newcomer "Speculation" thread is opposed to actual speculation. God forbid anyone try and have a little fun talking about the mega-serious topic of "What characters do you thinks will show up in this Nintendo Fighting Game?"

Hyle Russell the guy who runs DK Vine was the one that brought up that rumor and said he heard it from a source of his. I doubt he would be lying since he is the owner of DK Vine and DK Vine I believe has been the biggest DKC fansite for over 20 years.

Seriously, I don't see Hyle as the kind of guy to lie about this. Bad/misinterpreted info? Maaaaybe, but he also seems to have real connections so who knows.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Imagine being so jaded that you get mad at and chastise people for speculating on a speculation board. Imagine. I dunno, man. Life's about taking chances and risking looking like a dumbass at times. If you feel you have to be "safe" and avoid disappointment for something as inconsequential as video game speculation, I'm afraid to find out what people are holding themselves back from out of literal fear of failure. That's why I sometimes fly by the seat of my pants on stuff because this is supposed to be fun and if you only have fun when you're correct, what's the point? As my dad used to point out to me: the best career hit percentage in baseball history? About 37%. This means Ty Cobb got out or struck out the other 63% of the time. The guy played baseball for 22 goddamn seasons meaning this is the equivalent of roughly 14 seasons worth of him not getting a hit. 14 years of chomping down on the same spaghetti and ****ball sub sandwich over and over again (sound familiar?) but he still wound up the best of all time in that category. That said: speculate and theorize away. If your pantalones become a soft serve swimming pool over which cartoon character could be next in a video game, you're probably making yourself miserable on a lot of other fronts too.

 

[QQS]

Just wanna say that today 4th July I turn 30 years old and I’m a Geno fan since ancient times. This is our time, this is our fate. Geno is about to happen, wishes are about to be granted. My greatest gift is about to happen when Geno sees the light somewhere in Fighter Pass 2. Just wait and see how my conviction leads to reality. Thanks to all for sharing the same passion for this doll. It’s good to read and interact with you. Best wishes people!

GENO SHOOTS INTO SMASH!

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Regardless of how people view this kinda stuff, I think it's pretty fun to speculate on what other characters could share assets with a potentially playable Geno. The Ness glitch reminded me that Geno and Ness could share a lot of properties. The most obvious one being Ness's "Okay!" taunt accompanied by Ness nodding, similar to Geno's victory pose in SMRPG, but there's some other stuff that could be used as a template for Geno as well. Ness's proportions and the way he uses his hands for some of his special attacks is similar to Geno's different weapon timed hit animations in SMRPG just to name a few.

The Sheik Side Special glitch from 7.0.0 seems like a result of the changes they made to the move in the update itself, so while I personally think this doesn't mean anything, Sheik's side special requiring two separate button presses to do the full attack is somewhat reminiscent of SMRPG's timed hits mechanic.

The recent Daisy and Marth glitches seem to effect the characters' clothing, but I don't know too much info about the glitch yet so uh, no jumping to conclusions for this guy. However cape and dress physics being used for assets would fit pretty well with Geno's cape, but it could also be used for plenty of other characters that would have clothing physics in Smash like Lloyd, Arle, Shantae, etc. so that idea is still pretty much up in the air.

Does this mean the glitches obviously point to Geno being the next DLC character? Absolutely not, I and everyone else here knows this. It's just a theory we're discussing because it's an interesting topic, no one is putting 100% faith in this idea.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The Daisy/Marth thing is interesting because it does imply the physics of something like a short cloak/shawl:

Like I pointed out in my earlier post, the physics of the lower half of Marth's tunic and Daisy's dress is that it doesn't move much except with dynamic, full motion animations like running or hard lunges. This makes sense because, unlike a cape, it's not free flowing and is forced to adhere to the character's body frame because of its length and shape. If you want to see this in real life, wrap a bath towel around your waist or throw one over your shoulders and then move around a little bit. The movement of the towel is going to stay fairly close to you unless you're doing an extreme motion like, say, running from the police in a bath towel while screaming "GENO'S IN SMASH" through your neighborhood.

 

[MisterMike]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why?

There are plenty of reasons as to why this is the case:

Spoiler: -= Part 1, His Fans Are Vocal =-

History has shown that whenever there's a thing that's popular, people will rise up to **** on it. Justin Bieber songs back in the day is a prime example of this. All the kid ever did was get big off of safe, shallow, ineffectual songs that played on the radio, but because his songs were played absolutely everywhere and were bandied about by numerous people (mostly his target demographic of teenage girls), a large swathe of people rose up to express their annoyance at his sudden and seemingly inescapable popularity.

Geno fans were no different to any other niche Smash character fandom that existed back then. While they were numerous, they were still small enough that those who didn't care could safely ignore them, and nobody every felt threatened by their presence. But several years, one Mii Costume and three NEVER EVERS later, and Geno fans have become incredibly emboldened. They feel much more comfortable in preaching about their love of this character, their incessant demand to see him join Smash. This consequently makes them a bigger target of ridicule from outsiders who either don't understand the hype, don't want the character, or outright don't even care.

Spoiler: -= Part 2, He Dosen't Deserve It =-

Not helping matters any is the character they're rallying behind (Geno, in case you've forgotten) is, in terms of video games as a whole, a nobody. He's a random puppet guy from an over 20 year-old game, from a franchise that's already well represented in Smash and that has plenty of other characters who are not only more well known by the general populace, but who are also actually owned by the company who owns that series. In terms of overall relevance to video game history, he's about as big of a name as Din from The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons.

Now contrast that to a character like Crash Bandicoot. Crash was a household name back in the day, and even today is often considered the de facto mascot of the Playstation brand. He's had numerous hit games to his name over the years, and has managed to come back in a huge way as of late, with two successful remakes and a whole new game on the way. As it stands today, Crash is on top of the world, and plenty of people want to see him get into Smash.

This is the crux of the relevancy argument. Due to the immense importance we've placed on a character being part of the playable roster, we begin to feel as though any character who joins the game has to be just as important for us to be able to justify their inclusion, otherwise we'll feel like the slot, and our investment, was wasted. They have to have a legacy that you can point to, they have to be from a big enough franchise, they have to fill in a blank that we feel needs filling, or they need to be a hot enough commodity in video games at large.

Crash has a long line of beloved games, he's a big name in the industry, he'd be the first Playstation/Activision character, and he's Hansel levels of hot right now. Geno is from one well-liked game, he's a relative nobody, he's yet another Mario/SquareEnix character, and the general gaming public doesn't care about him. This dissonance is why people are more fine with discussing the likes of Dante, 2B or Sora and find themselves resenting the mere mention of Geno.

Spoiler: -= Part 3, He's Next In Line =-

As I mentioned in above in Part 1, Geno isn't the first NEVER EVER character to be treated like this by the larger Smash fanbase. Back during the Brawl and Smash 4 days, it was Ridley who recieved the brunt of the ridicule. Despite hailing from one of Nintendo's most popular franchises in the west, a franchise that still gets new games to this day, despite filling in the much-requested niche that was the villain rep, and despite being the series' defining antagonists, due to the sheer volume of people expressing their desire to see him get in as a fighter, other people would shame and mock them in response.

If you've never heard of a heat sink, it's this pronged metal thing that absorbs the heat of appliances and electronics in order to prevent said mechanical devices from overheating. Characters like Ridley are comparable to a heat sink, but for the collective hate of the Smash fandom. A "hate sink", if you will. By being such a large and seemingly impossible addition, bolstered by an incredibly vocal fanbase, he pulled people's hate away from other characters that would otherwise be at the forefront of their rage.

But when Ultimate came around, and when Ridley was finally revealed to be coming to the game at long last, that hate sink was taken away from them. They could no longer mock Ridley as the unlikely NEVER EVER pick, and as such a new hate sink would have to be found. The people very shortly found their next target in King K. Rool, yet another NEVER EVER pick for Smash. This repeated when K. Rool was revealed, which lead them to shift focus to Banjo & Kazooie. And finally, once Banjo & Kazooie were confirmed for the game, Geno became the next big hate sink for those people.

Spoiler: -= Part 4, He's A Threat =-

Of course, while all of the previous three parts have been major reasons as to why characters like Geno get so much hate, those pale in comparison to this fourth and final point. Now whether people want to admit it or not, Smash fandom isn't merely about supporting the characters you want to see get in, it's also about tearing down the characters you don't want, or at the very least tearing down the ones who are a threat to your character. The logic goes that if you can elimitate your rivals, you'll be able to bolster your character's chances of getting in.

Now of course, in reality, this isn't how it works for the most part. Characters for Smash are chosen for a variety of different reasons. To wit; Inkling and Isabelle were chosen due to their general popularity amongst gamers, Ridley and King K. Rool were chosen due to ranking highly on the Smash Ballot, Chrom and Dark Samus were chosen due to their being popular requests from the east and west respectively, Simon and Richter were chosen as the Castlevania characters over Alucard because they figured the fans would prefer a Belmont, and Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because Sakurai believed a wrestler character would be more interesting.

So if that's the case, then why do people go to such lengths to tear others down? As I said, this isn't how it works for the most part, but it does work sometimes. Ridley, King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie were characters that people wanted in so badly that Sakurai/Nintendo took notice and put them in, and Geno isn't too far removed from that: He's a character that, in spite of his age and lack of widespread relevance, has managed to amass a cadre of loyal devotees who loudly demand that he get put into Smash, and what's more, they've gotten results.

While Geno may not yet be a fighter in Smash, he's already appeared as a Mii Costume in Smash 4, he's appeared in Ultimate as a Spirit, and he's even been acknowledged by Sakurai himself as a character with a lot of popularity behind him, as well as plenty of potential for a moveset. There are so many character fanbases for Smash who wished they got anything close to that. What's more, his costume still hasn't returned as of yet, and there are plenty of rumors and potential leaks that bode well for him.

So with that in mind, is it any wonder why so many people find themselves resenting Geno's popularity, or any other NEVER EVER's popularity? Imagine spending most of your life desparately wishing for your favorite character to get into Smash, only to look on in envy as a character you don't give a **** about not only manages to gain a significant following that carries over from game-to-game, a following that utterly dwarfs the one you have for your character, but also manages to make it into Smash after so long? That's gotta ****ing sting.

 

[Captain Fun]

I saw this in the Newcomer Thread, but I can't let it slide. This is a growing, and toxic problem in not only that part of this website, but other parts of the Smash community as well.

Why is it that every time a theory comes up, we're the punching bags? Condescending comments like "Mega Man's projectile has a different colour, Geno confirmed!" is VERY common in the community. Why? That can easily be applied to literally any other rep. I see it more often for Reimu and Sora, if anything. Remember when the Overwatch case was announced? People were all about Tracer getting into Smash.

Isn't that the same thing? Yes, people get excited over potential evidence about their most wanted characters. All fanbases do. So why is it when we do it, it's considered abhorrent? Like, "Oh those Geno fans! They're so toxic!"

This type of behaviour is, in my eyes, disgusting. You're singling out a fanbase based entirely on a strawman that isn't even true.

This targeting of the Geno fanbase is the exact reason why our Ovaltine decided to be less active in here. It's unfortunate how fans can be worn down due to detractors and seething haters.

Imagine being so jaded that you get mad at and chastise people for speculating on a speculation board.

I don’t know if I posted at a bad time or something but I hope nobody took my post this way just because I thought the glitch theory was bad. I don’t know if it looked that way to anyone but I sincerely hope people here didn’t see that as an insult to the fanbase.

I also wanted to say that people being dismissive/disagreeing with a theory is not the same as being mad, and it’s speculation in its own way.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

There are plenty of reasons as to why this is the case:

Spoiler: -= Part 1, His Fans Are Vocal =-

History has shown that whenever there's a thing that's popular, people will rise up to **** on it. Justin Bieber songs back in the day is a prime example of this. All the kid ever did was get big off of safe, shallow, ineffectual songs that played on the radio, but because his songs were played absolutely everywhere and were bandied about by numerous people (mostly his target demographic of teenage girls), a large swathe of people rose up to express their annoyance at his sudden and seemingly inescapable popularity.

Geno fans were no different to any other niche Smash character fandom that existed back then. While they were numerous, they were still small enough that those who didn't care could safely ignore them, and nobody every felt threatened by their presence. But several years, one Mii Costume and three NEVER EVERS later, and Geno fans have become incredibly emboldened. They feel much more comfortable in preaching about their love of this character, their incessant demand to see him join Smash. This consequently makes them a bigger target of ridicule from outsiders who either don't understand the hype, don't want the character, or outright don't even care.

Spoiler: -= Part 2, He Dosen't Deserve It =-

Not helping matters any is the character they're rallying behind (Geno, in case you've forgotten) is, in terms of video games as a whole, a nobody. He's a random puppet guy from an over 20 year-old game, from a franchise that's already well represented in Smash and that has plenty of other characters who are not only more well known by the general populace, but who are also actually owned by the company who owns that series. In terms of overall relevance to video game history, he's about as big of a name as Din from The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons.

Now contrast that to a character like Crash Bandicoot. Crash was a household name back in the day, and even today is often considered the de facto mascot of the Playstation brand. He's had numerous hit games to his name over the years, and has managed to come back in a huge way as of late, with two successful remakes and a whole new game on the way. As it stands today, Crash is on top of the world, and plenty of people want to see him get into Smash.

This is the crux of the relevancy argument. Due to the immense importance we've placed on a character being part of the playable roster, we begin to feel as though any character who joins the game has to be just as important for us to be able to justify their inclusion, otherwise we'll feel like the slot, and our investment, was wasted. They have to have a legacy that you can point to, they have to be from a big enough franchise, they have to fill in a blank that we feel needs filling, or they need to be a hot enough commodity in video games at large.

Crash has a long line of beloved games, he's a big name in the industry, he'd be the first Playstation/Activision character, and he's Hansel levels of hot right now. Geno is from one well-liked game, he's a relative nobody, he's yet another Mario/SquareEnix character, and the general gaming public doesn't care about him. This dissonance is why people are more fine with discussing the likes of Dante, 2B or Sora and find themselves resenting the mere mention of Geno.

Spoiler: -= Part 3, He's Next In Line =-

As I mentioned in above in Part 1, Geno isn't the first NEVER EVER character to be treated like this by the larger Smash fanbase. Back during the Brawl and Smash 4 days, it was Ridley who recieved the brunt of the ridicule. Despite hailing from one of Nintendo's most popular franchises in the west, a franchise that still gets new games to this day, despite filling in the much-requested niche that was the villain rep, and despite being the series' defining antagonists, due to the sheer volume of people expressing their desire to see him get in as a fighter, other people would shame and mock them in response.

If you've never heard of a heat sink, it's this pronged metal thing that absorbs the heat of appliances and electronics in order to prevent said mechanical devices from overheating. Characters like Ridley are comparable to a heat sink, but for the collective hate of the Smash fandom. A "hate sink", if you will. By being such a large and seemingly impossible addition, bolstered by an incredibly vocal fanbase, he pulled people's hate away from other characters that would otherwise be at the forefront of their rage.

But when Ultimate came around, and when Ridley was finally revealed to be coming to the game at long last, that hate sink was taken away from them. They could no longer mock Ridley as the unlikely NEVER EVER pick, and as such a new hate sink would have to be found. The people very shortly found their next target in King K. Rool, yet another NEVER EVER pick for Smash. This repeated when K. Rool was revealed, which lead them to shift focus to Banjo & Kazooie. And finally, once Banjo & Kazooie were confirmed for the game, Geno became the next big hate sink for those people.

Spoiler: -= Part 4, He's A Threat =-

Of course, while all of the previous three parts have been major reasons as to why characters like Geno get so much hate, those pale in comparison to this fourth and final point. Now whether people want to admit it or not, Smash fandom isn't merely about supporting the characters you want to see get in, it's also about tearing down the characters you don't want, or at the very least tearing down the ones who are a threat to your character. The logic goes that if you can elimitate your rivals, you'll be able to bolster your character's chances of getting in.

Now of course, in reality, this isn't how it works for the most part. Characters for Smash are chosen for a variety of different reasons. To wit; Inkling and Isabelle were chosen due to their general popularity amongst gamers, Ridley and King K. Rool were chosen due to ranking highly on the Smash Ballot, Chrom and Dark Samus were chosen due to their being popular requests from the east and west respectively, Simon and Richter were chosen as the Castlevania characters over Alucard because they figured the fans would prefer a Belmont, and Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because Sakurai believed a wrestler character would be more interesting.

So if that's the case, then why do people go to such lengths to tear others down? As I said, this isn't how it works for the most part, but it does work sometimes. Ridley, King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie were characters that people wanted in so badly that Sakurai/Nintendo took notice and put them in, and Geno isn't too far removed from that: He's a character that, in spite of his age and lack of widespread relevance, has managed to amass a cadre of loyal devotees who loudly demand that he get put into Smash, and what's more, they've gotten results.

While Geno may not yet be a fighter in Smash, he's already appeared as a Mii Costume in Smash 4, he's appeared in Ultimate as a Spirit, and he's even been acknowledged by Sakurai himself as a character with a lot of popularity behind him, as well as plenty of potential for a moveset. There are so many character fanbases for Smash who wished they got anything close to that. What's more, his costume still hasn't returned as of yet, and there are plenty of rumors and potential leaks that bode well for him.

So with that in mind, is it any wonder why so many people find themselves resenting Geno's popularity, or any other NEVER EVER's popularity? Imagine spending most of your life desparately wishing for your favorite character to get into Smash, only to look on in envy as a character you don't give a **** about not only manages to gain a significant following that carries over from game-to-game, a following that utterly dwarfs the one you have for your character, but also manages to make it into Smash after so long? That's gotta ****ing sting.

This is a great write up, and that last part especially really puts you in the shoes of why some people don't like this character as much. I never gave it too much thought since I was always just happy one of my favorite characters from a spinoff series I absolutely adore was getting so much attention. I never really thought of how much it might sting to want one of your favorite characters in, only to see character support end up with a character you could not give less of a **** about.
I'm being 100% honest when I say this, but Geno is the last character I want. After this, I want the rest of the fighter's pass to be characters that make others happy. I've had my fill, others deserve the same chance that Geno has had for the past two decades. This community is super messy and can be rather ugly at times, but I hope that there's something in this fighter's pass that makes people happy, a lot of people deserve it. I truly mean that.

I don’t know if I posted at a bad time or something but I hope nobody took my post this way just because I thought the glitch theory was bad. I don’t know if it looked that way to anyone but I sincerely hope people here didn’t see that as an insult to the fanbase.

I also wanted to say that people being dismissive/disagreeing with a theory is not the same as being mad, and it’s speculation in its own way.

You're good man, nothing wrong with you disagreeing with a theory. I think the way you delivered your stance maybe set people off, but it's no biggie to me at least, sometimes these things happen just due to the nature of this thread.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t know if I posted at a bad time or something but I hope nobody took my post this way just because I thought the glitch theory was bad. I don’t know if it looked that way to anyone but I sincerely hope people here didn’t see that as an insult to the fanbase.

I also wanted to say that people being dismissive/disagreeing with a theory is not the same as being mad, and it’s speculation in its own way.

Nah, none of what I said was directed at you. I actually agree with you. It's more just the Newcomer Thread, and them liking very condescending, and mocking posts sent our way. Seems you just reminded me of how they tend to behave there.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The history of the Geno thread:

Also, no Captain Fun, it was not directed at you but our fanbase is pretty burned out on a lot of things that have been discussed here to the point of ad nauseum. It didn't take long to find exactly the posts Banana Slammer was talking about and it just gets old.

 

[Griselda]

I'm being 100% honest when I say this, but Geno is the last character I want. After this, I want the rest of the fighter's pass to be characters that make others happy.

I feel the same way about it, at this point. Even if I was the one calling the shots for the Fighters Pass, at this stage of the game with (as far as we know) very limited 'slots', I'd start making compromises on what I want vs. what other people want. I'm also one of the ones who wants Shadow (or any other Sonic rep), so I'd probably give him a slot because that's an interest that I share with others, but as for characters like Isaac? I don't really know or have any attachment to them, but I'd give them the rest of the slots because ultimately, I feel that'd just be that many more people who'd get something out of it than, say, my classic SEGA reps or something.

 

[Theguy123]

I’ve seen people saying the short dress glitch thing on daisy could point to 2b because she wears a short dress. Someone shoot this idea down so we don’t have to think about the possibility off square picking 2b over Geno.

 

[Dorayaki]

There are plenty of reasons as to why this is the case:
Geno isn't the first NEVER EVER character

I don't agree that is a good argument tho.

Every single character has obstacles to fit in Smash bros, even not considering the roster competition itself. Such as Ridley needs to solve size problem, Geno needs to solve ownership and significance problem, they don't face the same problem so Geno cannot exactly mimick Ridley to get what we want.

Such as my older brother can learn bicycle when he was 3yo, so my mother says I can definitely "do the same"-- learing how to ride bicycle, that makes sense.
But it'd be weird for my mother to say I can learn riding bicycle because my brother passed Oxford medical entrance exam, which has nothing to do with bicycle. His experience cannot help me so I must work on my own.

Plus, like I mentioned in some other thread, we clearly just want to support a specific character, not just to break a rule with any character. Geno isn't the only character that faces copyright and significane issues in the whole Nintendo candidates. Well, for short, there is Mallow. "Never Ever" thing can work for characters outside out support.

I'd just generally say we should recgonize that all Nintendo characters have a shot for Smash bros so we shouldn't say Geno isn't available.

 

[HudU]

I skipped over to page 2910, so sorry if you guys already talked about this, but Apparently there might be a direct in July, do you guys think we'll get a smash announcement? Maybe Geno?

 

[Icewolff92]

Hyle Russell the guy who runs DK Vine was the one that brought up that rumor and said he heard it from a source of his. I doubt he would be lying since he is the owner of DK Vine and DK Vine I believe has been the biggest DKC fansite for over 20 years.

Even the best can have a source that is wrong

 

[Penguinbowler]

I'd just generally say we should recgonize that all Nintendo characters have a shot for Smash bros so we shouldn't say Geno isn't available.

There are no rules for who gets in and who doesn't outside of 2 things.
1. Does Sakurai want them
2. Can Nintendo get them
this gives them a huge roster of potential characters, especially with Spirits Deconfirm being dead. Geno's biggest advantage was he was considered for both Brawl and Smash 4. The idea a character is "Impossible" kinda ignores that Sakurai can add almost whatever he wants, all it would take form Geno was him convincing Square to let him add another character. Geno's biggest issue isn't rights at this point, it's competition, there are 5 slots left, and probably thousands of potential candidates. Geno has the advantage of being considered in the past, which makes him more likely then a lot of other characters, but it's still up in the Air.

 

[Spatulo]

I skipped over to page 2910, so sorry if you guys already talked about this, but Apparently there might be a direct in July, do you guys think we'll get a smash announcement? Maybe Geno?

If there’s a direct it will 100% contain Smash news.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

I’ve seen people saying the short dress glitch thing on daisy could point to 2b because she wears a short dress. Someone shoot this idea down so we don’t have to think about the possibility off square picking 2b over Geno.

Mai Shiranui says hello

I skipped over to page 2910, so sorry if you guys already talked about this, but Apparently there might be a direct in July, do you guys think we'll get a smash announcement? Maybe Geno?

If there is a direct I think Smash is inevitable. Geno less so, but Im still confident hell be either 7 or 8.

 

[PatPrime]

If this Daisy glitch thing does point to a DLC character, there are a lot of characters that can fit this mold, so I think it's pointless to argue over who can it be. Stuff like the Ness glitch seem more specific and something I can see going in Geno's favor.