Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

Even the best can have a source that is wrong

Well, I guess there is no point in me trying to change your mind about this.

 

[AugustusB]

So, apparently Daisy's 'bald spot' was always there according to a good number of people. Do we have proof of this?

I for one think the glitches could be used as properties for upcoming fighters, but can agree with Captain Fun that we do not know how the game is programmed and this could all just be bogus. Still, it is fun to consider since we ain't got nothing better to do.

Also, people are considering 2B because she has a dress/skirt...Possible? I guess it boils down to if Sakurai considers her to be for "Good little boys and good little girls". I will always remember reading up Yoko Taro (The creator of Nier) telling his staff to make 2B's *** PERFECT.

I think the properties/physics of the skirts could point to things like that, but who knows?

 

[PatPrime]

So, apparently Daisy's 'bald spot' was always there according to a good number of people. Do we have proof of this?

I for one think the glitches could be used as properties for upcoming fighters, but can agree with Captain Fun that we do not know how the game is programmed and this could all just be bogus. Still, it is fun to consider since we ain't got nothing better to do.

Also, people are considering 2B because she has a dress/skirt...Possible? I guess it boils down to if Sakurai considers her to be for "Good little boys and good little girls". I will always remember reading up Yoko Taro (The creator of Nier) telling his staff to make 2B's *** PERFECT.

I think the properties/physics of the skirts could point to things like that, but who knows?

There are many other characters with dresses/capes/clokes/skirts that people have suggested like Reimu, 2B, Arle, Lloyd, and even Geno. I'm personally not going to really think about this too much and just wait and see.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Well look at that! I just hit over 7,700 messages. I think the stars really are aligning for the 7th.

 

[Icewolff92]

Well, I guess there is no point in me trying to change your mind about this.

Concidering that information (and yes I can believe that he said what he was told) is just dumb, not really.

 

[owjies]

Agree with AugustusB and PatPrime above. If anything the glitches show there's work in progress, which is exciting on its own. We're definitely not experts on the development process of this game. That said, strategically recycling and adapting elements is a common practice in just about any large project. It's fun to speculate, but we're not putting all of our eggs in this basket.

Speaking of speculation, I'd throw Dante into the mix too because he has that long red coat. Marth could work as a potential base for Dante. The coat, while fitted to Dante's torso, billows below his waist--the area that's missing from Daisy's dress.

 

[Megadoomer]

There are plenty of reasons as to why this is the case:

Thanks for summarizing - it helps to put things into perspective, and I appreciated the Zoolander reference in part two.

 

[MrJudd]

There are plenty of reasons as to why this is the case:

Spoiler: -= Part 1, His Fans Are Vocal =-

History has shown that whenever there's a thing that's popular, people will rise up to **** on it. Justin Bieber songs back in the day is a prime example of this. All the kid ever did was get big off of safe, shallow, ineffectual songs that played on the radio, but because his songs were played absolutely everywhere and were bandied about by numerous people (mostly his target demographic of teenage girls), a large swathe of people rose up to express their annoyance at his sudden and seemingly inescapable popularity.

Geno fans were no different to any other niche Smash character fandom that existed back then. While they were numerous, they were still small enough that those who didn't care could safely ignore them, and nobody every felt threatened by their presence. But several years, one Mii Costume and three NEVER EVERS later, and Geno fans have become incredibly emboldened. They feel much more comfortable in preaching about their love of this character, their incessant demand to see him join Smash. This consequently makes them a bigger target of ridicule from outsiders who either don't understand the hype, don't want the character, or outright don't even care.

Spoiler: -= Part 2, He Dosen't Deserve It =-

Not helping matters any is the character they're rallying behind (Geno, in case you've forgotten) is, in terms of video games as a whole, a nobody. He's a random puppet guy from an over 20 year-old game, from a franchise that's already well represented in Smash and that has plenty of other characters who are not only more well known by the general populace, but who are also actually owned by the company who owns that series. In terms of overall relevance to video game history, he's about as big of a name as Din from The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons.

Now contrast that to a character like Crash Bandicoot. Crash was a household name back in the day, and even today is often considered the de facto mascot of the Playstation brand. He's had numerous hit games to his name over the years, and has managed to come back in a huge way as of late, with two successful remakes and a whole new game on the way. As it stands today, Crash is on top of the world, and plenty of people want to see him get into Smash.

This is the crux of the relevancy argument. Due to the immense importance we've placed on a character being part of the playable roster, we begin to feel as though any character who joins the game has to be just as important for us to be able to justify their inclusion, otherwise we'll feel like the slot, and our investment, was wasted. They have to have a legacy that you can point to, they have to be from a big enough franchise, they have to fill in a blank that we feel needs filling, or they need to be a hot enough commodity in video games at large.

Crash has a long line of beloved games, he's a big name in the industry, he'd be the first Playstation/Activision character, and he's Hansel levels of hot right now. Geno is from one well-liked game, he's a relative nobody, he's yet another Mario/SquareEnix character, and the general gaming public doesn't care about him. This dissonance is why people are more fine with discussing the likes of Dante, 2B or Sora and find themselves resenting the mere mention of Geno.

Spoiler: -= Part 3, He's Next In Line =-

As I mentioned in above in Part 1, Geno isn't the first NEVER EVER character to be treated like this by the larger Smash fanbase. Back during the Brawl and Smash 4 days, it was Ridley who recieved the brunt of the ridicule. Despite hailing from one of Nintendo's most popular franchises in the west, a franchise that still gets new games to this day, despite filling in the much-requested niche that was the villain rep, and despite being the series' defining antagonists, due to the sheer volume of people expressing their desire to see him get in as a fighter, other people would shame and mock them in response.

If you've never heard of a heat sink, it's this pronged metal thing that absorbs the heat of appliances and electronics in order to prevent said mechanical devices from overheating. Characters like Ridley are comparable to a heat sink, but for the collective hate of the Smash fandom. A "hate sink", if you will. By being such a large and seemingly impossible addition, bolstered by an incredibly vocal fanbase, he pulled people's hate away from other characters that would otherwise be at the forefront of their rage.

But when Ultimate came around, and when Ridley was finally revealed to be coming to the game at long last, that hate sink was taken away from them. They could no longer mock Ridley as the unlikely NEVER EVER pick, and as such a new hate sink would have to be found. The people very shortly found their next target in King K. Rool, yet another NEVER EVER pick for Smash. This repeated when K. Rool was revealed, which lead them to shift focus to Banjo & Kazooie. And finally, once Banjo & Kazooie were confirmed for the game, Geno became the next big hate sink for those people.

Spoiler: -= Part 4, He's A Threat =-

Of course, while all of the previous three parts have been major reasons as to why characters like Geno get so much hate, those pale in comparison to this fourth and final point. Now whether people want to admit it or not, Smash fandom isn't merely about supporting the characters you want to see get in, it's also about tearing down the characters you don't want, or at the very least tearing down the ones who are a threat to your character. The logic goes that if you can elimitate your rivals, you'll be able to bolster your character's chances of getting in.

Now of course, in reality, this isn't how it works for the most part. Characters for Smash are chosen for a variety of different reasons. To wit; Inkling and Isabelle were chosen due to their general popularity amongst gamers, Ridley and King K. Rool were chosen due to ranking highly on the Smash Ballot, Chrom and Dark Samus were chosen due to their being popular requests from the east and west respectively, Simon and Richter were chosen as the Castlevania characters over Alucard because they figured the fans would prefer a Belmont, and Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye because Sakurai believed a wrestler character would be more interesting.

So if that's the case, then why do people go to such lengths to tear others down? As I said, this isn't how it works for the most part, but it does work sometimes. Ridley, King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie were characters that people wanted in so badly that Sakurai/Nintendo took notice and put them in, and Geno isn't too far removed from that: He's a character that, in spite of his age and lack of widespread relevance, has managed to amass a cadre of loyal devotees who loudly demand that he get put into Smash, and what's more, they've gotten results.

While Geno may not yet be a fighter in Smash, he's already appeared as a Mii Costume in Smash 4, he's appeared in Ultimate as a Spirit, and he's even been acknowledged by Sakurai himself as a character with a lot of popularity behind him, as well as plenty of potential for a moveset. There are so many character fanbases for Smash who wished they got anything close to that. What's more, his costume still hasn't returned as of yet, and there are plenty of rumors and potential leaks that bode well for him.

So with that in mind, is it any wonder why so many people find themselves resenting Geno's popularity, or any other NEVER EVER's popularity? Imagine spending most of your life desparately wishing for your favorite character to get into Smash, only to look on in envy as a character you don't give a **** about not only manages to gain a significant following that carries over from game-to-game, a following that utterly dwarfs the one you have for your character, but also manages to make it into Smash after so long? That's gotta ****ing sting.

This is a really good read! Adding to it, even the topic of Mii Costumes is something that causes divide among the community. I remember putting my Mii Costumes predictions for #6 in this thread and seeing someone sad that I put a wanted character from them as a prediction (Sol Badguy). What I want to say is this: If it was possible, I would prefer that everyone became playable. Unfortunately, we're reaching the end of the road for Ultimate's support (and probably Smash for a while). Honestly, the only thing I have is a list of characters I want to see make into the game (be it playable or as a Mii). I think some are more likely than others, hence the predictions on my signature, but it doesn't mean I don't want character A or B to be playable.

In reality, I do have a character from ArcSys that I would love if it became playable in Smash: Rachel Alucard from BlazBlue, because I love her character design and playstyle. Do I think she's going to happen? Unlikely: if anyone from ArcSys got a playable spot, it should be Sol + Rachel isn't even a frontrunner of BlazBlue. Does this makes me want the character less or make me feel sad when people discard her as an option or just put it there as a Mii Costume? Never.

The message is: if you have someone you want to make it, don't be let down by other people, just go for it! Even if takes a long time for it to happen, even if it's not this game, just keep going, even if takes a long time. This thread only got so far because people loved the character and wanted to see them in for a long time, and this fanbase passed through a lot to even make it a likely pick and that will is what honestly I think it will make it happen this Smash, if even representation started as a simple Mii Costume in 4.

If anything, I thank Sakurai for breaking so much of the speculation that we can actually say characters like Master Chief, Kratos or the Random Enemy #27 of Niche Game #54 without being laughed at by the majority. Imagine saying stuff like this in the Smash 4 days? You would be called insane!

PS: For the fans of number 7, I found a way to make my theory satisfy your needs: July 14 -> 7/14 ->7/ 7+7 -> 7/77 lol

 

[SSGuy]

If I am going add anything to the table regarding the rendering issues.

I find it very interesting that it's Marth's cape and Daisy's dress. Marth is the only character who's cape actually goes over his shoulders. Everyone other cape lays like a scarf and doesn't cover the character's shoulder.

The princess skirt might be just as important since the material has to lay flat or expand based on what is going on in the given scenario. (Mainly to stay in proportion with their legs so they don't clip thru the model) Something I would imagine Geno would need.

I am actually going to try and recreate this issue with other caped characters like Ike, Roy, Corrin, K.Rool etc to see if this is a general rendering issue or one specific to Marth and the princesses.

 

[Fatmanonice]

>Regularly accused of taking everything at face value and being extremely gullible.

>One of the few fanbases that meticulously investigates and researches things.


Sounds fair to me.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

>Regularly accused of taking everything at face value and being extremely gullible.

>One of the few fanbases that meticulously investigates and researches things.


Sounds fair to me.

This is why I actually respect detractors who just admit Geno makes them seethe. It’s worse seeing other people dismissing mountains of evidence by honing in on 1-2 things and saying “wow that by itself is crazy you Geno fans really like to make **** up!!”

 

[MisterMike]

I don't agree that is a good argument tho.

Every single character has obstacles to fit in Smash bros, even not considering the roster competition itself. Such as Ridley needs to solve size problem, Geno needs to solve ownership and significance problem, they don't face the same problem so Geno cannot exactly mimick Ridley to get what we want.

Such as my older brother can learn bicycle when he was 3yo, so my mother says I can definitely "do the same"-- learing how to ride bicycle, that makes sense.
But it'd be weird for my mother to say I can learn riding bicycle because my brother passed Oxford medical entrance exam, which has nothing to do with bicycle. His experience cannot help me so I must work on my own.

Plus, like I mentioned in some other thread, we clearly just want to support a specific character, not just to break a rule with any character. Geno isn't the only character that faces copyright and significane issues in the whole Nintendo candidates. Well, for short, there is Mallow. "Never Ever" thing can work for characters outside out support.

I'd just generally say we should recgonize that all Nintendo characters have a shot for Smash bros so we shouldn't say Geno isn't available.

I guess I understand what you mean, though I'm struggling to understand how this is relevant to what I was saying in this part. To clarify, I'm not the one making the argument that any such character will NEVER EVER be in Smash, rather I'm using this as a signifier for the purposes of my actual argument. The term NEVER EVER refers to characters who, in spite of their popularity, are largely considered unlikely for Smash by dissenters. This kind of opinion is near identical when it comes to discussing characters such as Ridley, King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, Waluigi, Isaac, and Geno.

This is a really good read! Adding to it, even the topic of Mii Costumes is something that causes divide among the community. I remember putting my Mii Costumes predictions for #6 in this thread and seeing someone sad that I put a wanted character from them as a prediction (Sol Badguy). What I want to say is this: If it was possible, I would prefer that everyone became playable. Unfortunately, we're reaching the end of the road for Ultimate's support (and probably Smash for a while). Honestly, the only thing I have is a list of characters I want to see make into the game (be it playable or as a Mii). I think some are more likely than others, hence the predictions on my signature, but it doesn't mean I don't want character A or B to be playable.

Unfortunately, that's always how other people will look at it. While I don't doubt that's how you feel about it, saying that you'd be happy with a character getting in as a Mii Costume rather than as a fighter implies that you don't really care for said character, and often comes across as insulting to those who do want to see them playable. After all, people typically use arguments like this as an easy way to dismiss characters they don't want, because if a character can be argued to be more likely or better off as a Mii Costume, then the characters that they want are statistically more likely. As I've said, tear down others to bolster your own.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is why I actually respect detractors who just admit Geno makes them seethe. It’s worse seeing other people dismissing mountains of evidence by honing in on 1-2 things and saying “wow that by itself is crazy you Geno fans really like to make **** up!!”

It's also another reason why I have stuck by this fanbase for so long. It's very inquisitive and is willing to entertain new and even weird ideas for the sake of conversation and exploration. There's also the irony that, in light of all the Sabi fallout, there's now a decent sized network of Geno fans that I obviously won't name the names of that full out go out and fact check and cross-check game rumors. I say ironic because, as you all may remember, the main reason I joined Sabi's ranks in late 2018 was to report and research Smash rumors in an ethical way through collaboration and teamwork and obviously that went horribly awry. Thankfully, there's like a dozen Geno fans that managed to create what I couldn't and that makes me very happy that things ultimately worked out.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So what's this about shadow models and hit boxes?

 

[Paraspikey]

has this glitch happened to anyone else? I was just taunting when I somehow got hit by something, and then daisy’s whole model turns black? #SmashBros #SmashBrosUltimate #NintendoSwich pic.twitter.com/H0KP3Q30wu

— zach (@stardustpuddle) June 30, 2020

I'll bring your attention to this...

If you watch it, it's Daisy's whole dress that disappears, not only half of it.
It is clearly a softbody issue caused by the team working from home, so it was really hard to play test everything.

This Daisy and Marth stuff means nothing, and will absolutely be shown to effect more then just those 2.

 

[MattX20]

>Regularly accused of taking everything at face value and being extremely gullible.

>One of the few fanbases that meticulously investigates and researches things.


Sounds fair to me.

Yep, that is how it is

 

[cmbsfm]

Out of curiosity, is it possible for Square to make a solo game about Geno if they don’t use any OG Mario content?

 

[SSGuy]

has this glitch happened to anyone else? I was just taunting when I somehow got hit by something, and then daisy’s whole model turns black? #SmashBros #SmashBrosUltimate #NintendoSwich pic.twitter.com/H0KP3Q30wu

— zach (@stardustpuddle) June 30, 2020

I'll bring your attention to this...

If you watch it, it's Daisy's whole dress that disappears, not only half of it.
It is clearly a softbody issue caused by the team working from home, so it was really hard to play test everything.

This Daisy and Marth stuff means nothing, and will absolutely be shown to effect more then just those 2.

You might be right. I just wish there was an easier way to recreate these bugs. I'd love to see these other characters to resurface to give myself peace of mind. What would cause these soft body issues start surfacing though?

 

[Megadoomer]

Out of curiosity, is it possible for Square to make a solo game about Geno if they don’t use any OG Mario content?

Likely not; Star Road is based on a location from Super Mario World, and Star Hill has been regularly used by Nintendo after Mario RPG. (the name is generic, but they've been able to use it in several Mario RPGs without issue) It seems like it would be difficult to use Geno in any form without referencing these things, and a game based solely on Geno without any pre-existing Mario elements aside from the characters that first appeared in Mario RPG doesn't seem like it would do all that well, even if it was a lower-budget title.

It makes me think of Diddy Kong Racing - while I'm not sure who owns the characters who debuted in that game, either Nintendo or Microsoft (whoever owns those characters - probably Nintendo, since only Banjo and Conker were left out of the DS game, though Tiptup being in Banjo games could mean that Microsoft owns everyone in that game aside from Diddy and Krunch) could make a game based on Bumper the Badger, but why would they?

 

[MattX20]

Out of curiosity, is it possible for Square to make a solo game about Geno if they don’t use any OG Mario content?

Most likely not.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Out of curiosity, is it possible for Square to make a solo game about Geno if they don’t use any OG Mario content?

Only if they hard rebooted the character but then it's like "what's the point? Why not just create an all new character?"

 

[EarlTamm]

Likely not; Star Road is based on a location from Super Mario World, and Star Hill has been regularly used by Nintendo after Mario RPG. (the name is generic, but they've been able to use it in several Mario RPGs without issue) It seems like it would be difficult to use Geno in any form without referencing these things, and a game based solely on Geno without any pre-existing Mario elements aside from the characters that first appeared in Mario RPG doesn't seem like it would do all that well, even if it was a lower-budget title.

To me, it always seemed like the deal they made with the new characters was a way of assuring that neither party could work on future titles without the other being involved. It makes sense, and its not like either party realized what was going to happen with the next generation.

 

[Theguy123]

Is there anyone who could look into the Geno situation and find out why square won’t give the rights to Nintendo or why they won’t use him or even why Nintendo won’t try and gain the rights for him

I remember someone doing it for Isaac after he was revealed as an assist trophy. The wanted to know why he wasn’t upgraded when he had a fanbase and he found out that Nintendo didn’t think the fanbase was big enough to be a playable character so they brought him back as an assist to acknowledge the fans they wanted him.

 

[Axelocke]

The closer we get to July 6th/July 7th, the more I'm thinking that a perfectly timed reveal for a star themed character on the star festival would be too cool for Nintendo. I feel like the most we'd get is a cute little "Today is the Star Festival!" tweet, with a super star gif or something.

I'd love to be wrong, though.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Is there anyone who could look into the Geno situation and find out why square won’t give the rights to Nintendo or why they won’t use him or even why Nintendo won’t try and gain the rights for him

I remember someone doing it for Isaac after he was revealed as an assist trophy. The wanted to know why he wasn’t upgraded when he had a fanbase and he found out that Nintendo didn’t think the fanbase was big enough to be a playable character so they brought him back as an assist to acknowledge the fans they wanted him.

I reckon Nintendo doesn't see much to gain from it. They tend to shaft side stuff in newer games anyway (the most obvious example that comes to mind is Mario Kart with the roster everyone knows). Maybe with a newer appareance in something and a good reception they could think to try to bring back the characters in some manner. As for SE, the original characters in SMRPG are unique in that they were made for Mario, so they'd look out of place elsewhere. Geno, Mallow, Croco, etc, are all in this weird limbo at the moment. This being said, I dunno why they don't use them in crossovers like Mario Sports Mix, if there was any place to put em, it'd be there. I'd assume Geno wasn't even present in SSDX because AlphaDream was in a pretty bad state money-wise, seeing what happened to them a few months ago, so they didn't try getting the rights again from SE.

 

[3D Dillon]

Is there anyone who could look into the Geno situation and find out why square won’t give the rights to Nintendo or why they won’t use him or even why Nintendo won’t try and gain the rights for him

I remember someone doing it for Isaac after he was revealed as an assist trophy. The wanted to know why he wasn’t upgraded when he had a fanbase and he found out that Nintendo didn’t think the fanbase was big enough to be a playable character so they brought him back as an assist to acknowledge the fans they wanted him.

Maybe they knew they were working on Hero, and they made Isaac an AT because they thought he would be a little too similar to Hero, even though he had some things that stood him out from the other guy? I dunno.

 

[AugustusB]

So I just relived a moment in time. The day was July 30th of 2019 and Hero's Presentation was airing. We all waited on bated breath for the inevitable....But it did not happen.

And looking back through old posts in here as well as Newcomer and Social (geez) I was kind of surprised. The majority was surprised that the costume did not return. The majority truly thought that the costume was coming, hell even some admitted they were wrong.

Now of course people still did not think anything of it, but it does go to show, people admitted to being wrong. I just wish people would remember from back then that NO ONE expected JUST Dragon Quest costumes for Hero. After the fact? It makes sense to promote Dragon Quest.

Moral of this...IDK Geno is still in it?

 

[Powerman293]

I reckon Nintendo doesn't see much to gain from it. They tend to shaft side stuff in newer games anyway (the most obvious example that comes to mind is Mario Kart with the roster everyone knows). Maybe with a newer appareance in something and a good reception they could think to try to bring back the characters in some manner. As for SE, the original characters in SMRPG are unique in that they were made for Mario, so they'd look out of place elsewhere. Geno, Mallow, Croco, etc, are all in this weird limbo at the moment. This being said, I dunno why they don't use them in crossovers like Mario Sports Mix, if there was any place to put em, it'd be there. I'd assume Geno wasn't even present in SSDX because AlphaDream was in a pretty bad state money-wise, seeing what happened to them a few months ago, so they didn't try getting the rights again from SE.

The idea of Geno appearing in something like Final Fantasy 7 Remake part 2 with that ultra real anime artstyle is hilarious to me.

 

[EarlTamm]

The idea of Geno appearing in something like Final Fantasy 7 Remake part 2 with that ultra real anime artstyle is hilarious to me.

I think the only Final Fantasy game Geno could appear in reasonably would be a new Dissidia.

Edit:
Even then, not holding my breath.

 

[AugustusB]

The idea of Geno appearing in something like Final Fantasy 7 Remake part 2 with that ultra real anime artstyle is hilarious to me.

I mean...you have a cat that wears a crown and robe and rides a giant toy moogle. I could see it lol.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Understandbly, it is not a REAL cat and toy moogle, but you get it. Upon typing this, I really want Cait Sith's weapons to be the Moogle and each new weapon changes its appearance...Cait Sith riding a Geno Doll...I NEED IT!

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

only 5 chances left

 

[YsDisciple]

Time for a speculative exercise with a dose of educated guessing.

Spoiler: Source Gaming's SSBU Fighter Poll 1

SOURCE GAMING'S SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE FIGHTER POLL (FP1) RESULTS - May 14, 2019

Place > Character Name > Status

1 > Banjo & Kazooie > Fighter
2 > Bandana Waddle Dee > Spirit
3 > Sora > ???
4 > Shantae > Spirit
5 > Geno > Spirit
6 > Steve > ???
7 > Crash Bandicoot > ???
8 > Rayman > Spirit
9 > Rex & Pyra > Spirit, Mii Costume (Rex)
10 > Master Chief > ???
11 > Waluigi > Spirit, Assist Trophy
12 > Doom Slayer > ???
13 > Phoenix Wright > ???
14 > Dante > ???
14 > Sans > Mii Costume
17 > Isaac > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
17 > Porky Minch > M.I.A.
18 > 2B > ???
19 > Shadow > Spirit, Assist Trophy
20 > Paper Mario > Spirit
21 > Amaterasu > ???
22 > Scorpion > ???
23 > Cuphead > Spirit, Mii Costume
24 > Tails > Spirit, Mii Costume
24 > Travis Touchdown > ???
26 > Lara Croft > ???
27 > Dixie Kong > Spirit
28 > Klonoa > ???
28 > Monokuma > ???
30 > Leon Kennedy > Spirit
31 > Neku > ???
32 > Elma > Spirit
33 > Ryu Hayabusa > ???
34 > Erdrick > Fighter (Hero Alt)
35 > Karate Joe > Spirit
36 > Goku (not DBZ) > Spirit(?)
36 > Spyro > ???
38 > Professor Layton > ???
38 > Skull Kid > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
40 > Crono > ???
41 > Lloyd Irving > M.I.A.
41 > Monster Hunter > M.I.A. (though we have Rathalos boss and Assist Trophy)
43 > Heavy > ???
44 > Arle Nadja > ???
44 > Chibi Robo > Spirit, Mii Costume
46 > Hollow Knight > ???
47 > Quote > ???
48 > Ashely > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
48 > Chorus Kids > Spirit
50 > Reimu Hakurei

Spoiler: video of poll 1

Spoiler: Source Gaming's SSBU Fighter Poll 2

SOURCE GAMING'S SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE FIGHTER POLL (FP2) RESULTS - June 20, 2020

Place > Character > Status

1 > Crash Bandicoot > ???
2 > Geno > Spirit
3 > Doom Slayer > ???
4 > Sora > ???
5 > Dante > ???
6 > Rayman > Spirit
7 > Steve > ???
8 > Master Chief > ???
9 > Bandana Waddle Dee > Spirit
10 > Phoenix Wright > ???
11 > Reimu Hakurei > ???
12 > Waluigi > Spirit, Assist Trophy
13 > Shantae > Spirit
14 > Travis Touchdown > ???
15 > Isaac > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
16 > Dixie Kong > Spirit
17 > 2B > ???
18 > Rex & Pyra > Spirit, Mii Costume (Rex)
19 > Ryu Hayabusa > ???
20 > Arle Nadja > ???
21 > Spyro > ???
22 > Hollow Knight > ???
23 > Lloyd Irving > M.I.A.
24 > Heavy > ???
25 > Dr. Eggman > Spirit
26 > Paper Mario > Spirit
27 > Amaterasu > ???
28 > Tails > Spirit, Mii Costume
29 > Scorpion > ???
30 > Porky Minch > M.I.A.
31 > Monster Hunter > M.I.A. (again, we do have the Rathalos boss and Assist Trophy)
32 > Sol Badguy > ???
33 > Shadow > Spirit, Assist Trophy
34 > Professor Layton > ???
35 > Lara Croft > ???
36 > Shovel Knight > Spirit, Assist Trophy
37 > Skull Kid > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
38 > Monokuma > ???
39 > Heihachi > Mii Costume
40 > Frisk > ???
41 > Agumon > ???
42 > KOS-MOS > ???
43 > Zero > Spirit, Mii Costume, Assist Trophy
44 > Elma > Spirit
45 > Klonoa > ???
46 > Hat Kid > ???
47 > Quote > ???
48 > Crono > ???
49 > Gordon Freeman > ???
50 > Bomberman > Assist Trophy

Spoiler: poll 2 video

Over the past year the good lads from Source Gaming made two polls asking people to vote for the characters they’d want to join Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. The first poll (which was for characters people wanted to see get in Smash via the first Fighters Pass) had over 3,000 participants, and included votes for 718 characters. The second poll (for characters people wanted to see in Fighters Pass Vol. 2) included votes for 1,423 unique characters (about twice from the first poll) and as NantenJex mentions, there was even more participation this time around. From the results of both polls, they highlighted the top 50 characters from each.

Now, before anyone goes on saying “but polls mean nothing” or “this doesn’t prove anything”, that’s obvious (somewhat), however it is interesting to look at these kind of polls since they reunite the wants and expectations of a considerable number of people who for Nintendo’s (and third party collaborators in SSBU) concern, also represent a portion of their consumer base. Similar to people who as day traders dedicate themselves to buy and sell stocks, bonds, mutual funds and all that jazz via online market platforms (NYSE, etc.), the choices they make are based on running simulations, reading up on news related to the interest they’re willing to invest, and after making an educated guess, they either buy or sell a specific capital instrument in order to make a profit (hopefully). Now, in terms of speculating for Smash Bros. DLC characters, the speculation done by fans doesn’t have a strong impact on the end result (which character actually makes it into the roster as DLC), but fans (consumers) do have an impact in another way. That way is by voicing their wants and desires via social media outlets (Twitter, YouTube, Twitch, etc.), and most importantly buying the games of their favorite franchises (Crash Bandicoot N’Sane Trilogy, Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, DOOM Eternal, etc.). With that out of the way, let’s dive into both polls.

The first Smash poll had some interesting characters within the top 50. However one key detail to note is the character that made it to the number 1 spot; Banjo & Kazooie. Recall that this poll’s results were made public roughly a month before E3 2019, yet lo and behold, Banjo & Kazooie did in fact made it into the roster after being revealed near the end of the Nintendo Direct, as Challenger Pack 3. What a cathartic moment that was. Was the poll’s result and the actual result a coincidence? The answer is yes, however they do have a connection of sorts. As mentioned before, the poll results gathered the desires of participants for which characters they wanted in Smash via the Fighters Pass, and the fact that Banjo & Kazooie made it to the very top of the list (a lengthy one at that) gives the idea that a good number of participants coincided into wanting the bear and bird duo in the game. Albeit there haven’t been any Banjo-Kazooie games for quite some time, fans still remember and support this IP and just so we’re clear, we’ve still had the Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie games via Rare Replay on XBOX consoles up to this day, and the former has remained as a popular speedrunning game (GDQ). Following this train of thought, we move onto the second Smash poll and direct our attention to the character that made it to first place this time around; Crash Bandicoot. The Crash Bandicoot franchise got its series revival a few years back with the N’Sane Trilogy, and a while later Crash Team Racing. This year we got the announcement for a brand new entry into the series. Albeit a Switch version of Crash Bandicoot 4 has yet to be announced, this revived interest in the series factors into fans’ thoughts on the character and his chances of potentially making it into the Smash roster. I won’t go all-in saying that the second poll’s result for Crash makes him a lock for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 but, looking back to the first poll, thinking back on what Crash represented back in the late 90s console wars, his series revival PLUS new game being announced last month, there’s just quite the number of things going for the bandicoot that make him seem VERY likely.

I won’t go into details for each character for the sake of time, but by looking at the top 50 characters from both polls, one can come to some interesting conclusions (albeit not definitive). Another interesting detail from the first poll was the inclusion of the two premium Mii costumes that made it into Smash; Sans and Cuphead (who placed 14, and 23 respectively). Continuing on, albeit at the time of the first poll going live, rumors of Hero had been doing the rounds throughout the Internet, he placed 34 (as Erdrick, one of Hero’s alts). This result however cannot be translated to those of the second poll since the second fighters pass has been subject to even greater secrecy, and by simply looking at the second poll’s top 50 (say from 21 to 50), none of those names have been rumored around heavily similar to Hero back in 2019. The only names that could be picked to perhaps have a similar result would be Lloyd Irving, or Porky Minch (imo).

Something else to note from both polls are two names that remained within the top five placings; Geno and Sora. Their placings within the top five had slight changes (Geno going from 5 to 2, and Sora from 3 to 4), but it’s interesting to see that both these characters remained among the top most wanted characters among participants. In regards to Geno, he hasn’t made an appearance in a long time (except for Smash 4’s Mii Costume), however the absence of his Mii Costume still remains a mystery, as well as Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars still not being on the SNES NSO Library. In regards to Sora, the Kingdom Hearts franchise has had a solid streak of content ever since Kingdom Hearts 3’s release, including a game coming to the Nintendo Switch; Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory. Unfortunately, save for the characters voted to the number one spot, the rest of the top five voted characters in both polls do not translate to characters that will (or most likely are to) make it into the roster. After the first poll and the completion of the first fighters pass, Geno, Shantae, and Bandana Waddle Dee remained as spirits while Sora was nowhere to be seen. After the second poll, Geno is still a spirit yet confidence in his inclusion has grown, while at the same time other characters have caught up to Sora as most wanted characters who we’ll still have to see if they materialize in the ongoing Fighters Pass Vol. 2. However, as the first poll demonstrated, the remaining characters from the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 could be some of those found around the middle of the top 50, or even lower (Erdrick placed 34, Byleth placed 92, Terry Bogard placed 101, Luminary placed 112, Min Min placed 236, and Vault Boy placed 242 in the first poll).

To wrap things up, at present time, and given the results from the first Smash poll and the first Fighters Pass, I'm feeling confident that Crash Bandicoot will most likely be in the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 as I've mentioned in past posts as Challenger Pack 8. As for Geno, the fact that he's made it to the top five twice (improving his placing on the second poll) does correlate with improved expectations in regards to his chances. Coincidentally, Sora's presence within the top five on both polls is also quite telling. Let's see what this month will bring.

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

Blessed from the the great papa himself. Yeah, GodzillaGuy64 was the one who posted it on smashboards, so much love for him for gifting us it.

— GuardianOfStarRoad🦍 (@road_guardian) July 4, 2020

Never thought I’d see the day where my dumb edits I make in 5 seconds are shared outside of the thread. To whoever runs the Twitter account, I thank you so much.

Edit: Although to be clear, I did not make the tinfoil Geno hat. I just put it on the normal Geno. I do not remember who made the tinfoil hat.

 

[T2by4]

Blessed from the the great papa himself. Yeah, GodzillaGuy64 was the one who posted it on smashboards, so much love for him for gifting us it.

— GuardianOfStarRoad🦍 (@road_guardian) July 4, 2020

Never thought I’d see the day where my dumb edits I make in 5 seconds are shared outside of the thread. To whoever runs the Twitter account, I thank you so much.

Edit: Although to be clear, I did not make the tinfoil Geno hat. I just put it on the normal Geno. I do not remember who made the tinfoil hat.

No prob.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Hey Genobros? With all the madness that's going on within the competitive Smash community and some players I looked up to either being exposed or coming forward has been really hitting me like a truck the past few days. For that reason I decided to take a break from SmashBoards and most of Smash in general for the time being. I'll still be around on the Star Road discord, and I'll definitely come back when I feel the time is right (or when the next character is revealed, whichever comes first), but I just need some time to myself for a bit.

Wish everyone the best.

 

[Enigma735]

Hey Genobros? With all the madness that's going on within the competitive Smash community and some players I looked up to either being exposed or coming forward has been really hitting me like a truck the past few days. For that reason I decided to take a break from SmashBoards and most of Smash in general for the time being. I'll still be around on the Star Road discord, and I'll definitely come back when I feel the time is right (or when the next character is revealed, whichever comes first), but I just need some time to myself for a bit.

Wish everyone the best.

Yeah I don't blame you. The Smash community has been up in ARMS lately. [Pun Intended].

But yeah, hope you're doing well and see ya when you come back!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So I remember hearing papagenos mention in his last video that extra stage slots were added to the game's memory according to dataminers I believe. If they can add more memory for the stage selection, do you guys think they can do the same for the memory for the character selection?

 

[CannonStreak]

So I remember hearing papagenos mention in his last video that extra stage slots were added to the game's memory according to dataminers I believe. If they can add more memory for the stage selection, do you guys think they can do the same for the memory for the character selection?

Don't think so. I remember some tweet from someone saying that if they were to add more than a certain amount of characters, possibly after the second fighters pass, the game would crash.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

IIRC, the game crashes if you want to add more than 91 slots at CSS (that would be 90 fighters + Random), so after FP2, they can add 4 more fighters if they want to. With that, you can have a perfect rectangle of 7 rows x 13 columns, with the original 12 (+ Dark Samus) at the top row.

If you stacked echo fighters (and Mii Fighters remain unstacked) you can have another perfect rectangle of 7 rows x 12 columns.

 

[Enigma735]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we did end up getting a third Pass. I'm not expecting it by any means, but Sakurai is a madman and always goes the extra mile. Everytime we think he will stop and take a break, he just keeps on going forward.