Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m not sure about the exact date, but based on what I could find in here, I believe it was around July 12th last year.

Thats pretty solid. If speculation is correct that the pass was finalized around August/September since Sakurai said so in Terry’s presentation iirc then that could mean discussions or finalizing could’ve been done in July.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

"But people could wind up disappointed."

Well, that's life. My now wife literally laughed in my face the first time I asked her out. I had an entire panel of professors basically tell me I needed to drop out of grad school because I wouldn't make a good mental health counselor. I watched my childhood cat die and face get slowly get eaten away by cancer because my parents didn't want to pay for treatment. I have a Master's degree and basically no where to go because the world is an absolute trainwreck right now. As a 32 year old man, I think I can handle Geno not showing up again and I think everyone here has dealt with some life changing occurrence of disappointment or even grief that absolutely pales in comparison to a character not making it into a video game.

And even as someone who HASN'T gone through those kind of tragic, life-changing situations, I think I'm justified in saying that if you're getting so riled up over a character not being included in a crossover fighting game, then you need to reassess your priorities.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I really don't understand why the PCB, a tournament involving skill and not a poll, is being pushed as a super-accurate popularity contest by multiple people I've seen on the internet over the course of ARMS speculation, and Min Min didn't win by a much higher win % than the few characters she was actually against. She's clearly one of the most-popular but still. She's my 2nd favorite and all, but I'm just saying, if the PCB actually was a popularity contest, then it wasn't a very good one.

Y’know, I want to apologize for this. I think I came off a bit too heated, as you can kinda tell in the first sentence at least. I don’t even own ARMS, and yet this speculation cycle has made me care about it a lot, including Spring Man, and I want to get it sometime (already tried the trial too). That’s probably why I got a bit on edge, even though Min Min is still my 2nd favorite and I think it’s cool she’s in, but I know the PCB and whatever the heck it is doesn’t matter either way...

I guess people I see elsewhere claiming Spring Man is “too boring,” a few being obnoxious about it, and people suggesting it could turn into a Dimitri and Morrigan situation (most not being rude about it or anything, just thinking of it and I happen to see it), or just acting like no one likes Spring Man (even though he’s decently popular), got me worried he would just be “left behind” in a way (even if it seems he’ll still be emphasized in promotional stuff etc. more than the others), and that leaked into the ARMS stuff I was talking about, and I think I took the PCB stuff too seriously...

I’m not mad at anyone in here, though. Or anyone at all, really. Sometimes I guess I care about videogame stuff a bit too much...at the end of the day, it’s still all game stuff, and at least the games and characters still exist for us to play again.

I’m usually happy go-lucky, but I guess sometimes the silliest things worry/bug me...I’m also a bit worried about Geno’s chances at times, as I was with Banjo & Kazooie and am with Steve as well, but I know everything will be okay. I can handle disappointment if it happens, the worst I tend to feel from this stuff is usually “well, that sucks, I’m sad now” and then soon spring back into being mostly happy anyway. I also need to try better at ignoring what some people say, I’ll admit, namely some character detractors such as those you may run into on Twitter...and a few things in the general Newcomer Speculation thread too I guess...

 

[super88cloud]

My fondest online memories were browsing the character support threads on the original Nsider and hearing about your Geno antics on Nsider 2. Back then, with Sakurai's journals, with how little we all understood game design and licensing, it seemed like it was pretty much a guarantee that he was going to be in Brawl. Of course, we expected Brawl to have...a lot more characters than it did.

To hear Sakurai say that we were right on the mark, that he did want Geno in Brawl after all, felt like vindication even if I wasn't directly involved back then. Smash 4 started off with Mega Man, and it felt like fans were finally being listened to. Ridley and K. Rool being in the base game, Banjo being in the first round of DLC--we're so close to finishing off everyone's most wanted lists from 2007 that I can almost taste it, so the last thing I think we need is someone going out of their way to temper our expectations.

Anyone here is pretty much expecting it to happen, and while I understand the impetus for the video.
I also understand the kickback of the Geno fans. I am almost 30, and have been waiting for Geno to show up in ANYTHING again since I was 7. I was happy with Banjo, and to be fair, if we don´t get Geno. I won´t be terribly upset. Ultimate has DELIVERED in many fan requests. K. Rool, Simon, Ridley, Banjo.
Hell, the roster does look like those old Brawl fan roster. I really can´t beesh for not having one of the characters when this game has the roster I wanted when I was a teenager + 3 fire emblem characters.
All the evidence are really the hopes and wishes of mostly older Nintendo and gaming fans.

 

[Akg0001]

So guys do you think Geno would get only 2 songs? In every DLC presentation in Smash Ultimate Sakurai presents us the music we get for the character. I can't imagine he just shows us 2 songs. It would be so awkward...

And what about Square Enix characters only get 2 songs rule? If that rule is true, Geno really would make more sense as unique Mii costume than as a character. Like I said I can't imagine Sakurai sitting on his couch and looking in the camera and saying these 2 songs are all we get. Do not forget people also pay/paid for the music.

So again my question: Do you think we would only get 2 songs for Geno and what do you think about that only 2 songs per SE character "rule"?

 

[super88cloud]

So guys do you think Geno would get only 2 songs? In every DLC presentation in Smash Ultimate Sakurai presents us the music we get for the character. I can't imagine he just shows us 2 songs. It would be so awkward...

And what about Square Enix characters only get 2 songs rule? If that rule is true, Geno really would make more sense as unique Mii costume than as a character. Like I said I can't imagine Sakurai sitting on his couch and looking in the camera and saying these 2 songs are all we get. Do not forget people also pay/paid for the music.

So again my question: Do you think we would only get 2 songs for Geno and what do you think about that only 2 songs per SE character "rule"?

As long as Shimomura does new arrangements, I´m fine with only two songs. Four would be acceptable. The question is, which songs?
I would love Smithy´s first battle theme, and the first boss battle theme.

Hey, it´s there any evidence or hypothesis for a July direct?
Only thing I can think of is a mini direct for Paper Mario.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Thats pretty solid. If speculation is correct that the pass was finalized around August/September since Sakurai said so in Terry’s presentation iirc then that could mean discussions or finalizing could’ve been done in July.

Yeah, that was ForsakenM 's theory and it makes sense.

And even as someone who HASN'T gone through those kind of tragic, life-changing situations, I think I'm justified in saying that if you're getting so riled up over a character not being included in a crossover fighting game, then you need to reassess your priorities.

Video games or any hobby that you love is a good way to get away from the problems in life. As someone who has Asperger syndrome aka Autism, I have been bullied and discriminated against by many people. Video games and other hobbies of mine is a way to escape from all of that.

 

[AugustusB]

So guys do you think Geno would get only 2 songs? In every DLC presentation in Smash Ultimate Sakurai presents us the music we get for the character. I can't imagine he just shows us 2 songs. It would be so awkward...

And what about Square Enix characters only get 2 songs rule? If that rule is true, Geno really would make more sense as unique Mii costume than as a character. Like I said I can't imagine Sakurai sitting on his couch and looking in the camera and saying these 2 songs are all we get. Do not forget people also pay/paid for the music.

So again my question: Do you think we would only get 2 songs for Geno and what do you think about that only 2 songs per SE character "rule"?

The beauty about Geno is he is Square AND Nintendo. I dont think he will come with just two songs. I said this awhile back, but he could bring with him other Mario rpg style tracks (Ex. Paper Mario, Mario and Luigi). As sad as it is to only get two tracks from the actual game, I would be OK if there were TtyD tracks thrown in.

 

[Vector Victor]

If Geno is added and if there are any shenanigans with his music/content, they can get around that by using the other Mario RPG music and spirits. Heck, they could make the RPG music into a separate category, like what they did with the Kart music.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Guys, i need some of you (Especially Fatmanonice) so i call it, he is here, tell mr doctor geno your problems, he will help you

 

[Theguy123]

So guys do you think Geno would get only 2 songs? In every DLC presentation in Smash Ultimate Sakurai presents us the music we get for the character. I can't imagine he just shows us 2 songs. It would be so awkward...

And what about Square Enix characters only get 2 songs rule? If that rule is true, Geno really would make more sense as unique Mii costume than as a character. Like I said I can't imagine Sakurai sitting on his couch and looking in the camera and saying these 2 songs are all we get. Do not forget people also pay/paid for the music.

So again my question: Do you think we would only get 2 songs for Geno and what do you think about that only 2 songs per SE character "rule"?

we’d get tons of music I’d think. I might be wrong but doesn’t Nintendo own the majority off mario RPG’s music.

Also it’s connected to the mario and Luigi series so we’d get a good 10 songs from that as well to make up for the lack off songs from the series

and then there’s the spirits. We’d get a few from mario RPG and if Nintendo and sakurai really want to take things further they’ll use some that aren’t in the game already from the mario and Luigi series.

honestly I’d feel a bit sorry for hero fans and cloud fans if Geno gets in because his music situation and spirit situation is something square Enix can’t control and Nintendo does.

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

I need to temper the expectations of people who think Geno is a lock for the next character. I remember Isaac having a similar thing pre Ultimate and that turned out to be nothing.

I have a better idea. You could maybe not waste your time by not making your hair-brained video idea that nobody asked for or wanted!

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

we’d get tons of music I’d think. I might be wrong but doesn’t Nintendo own the majority off mario RPG’s music.

Also it’s connected to the mario and Luigi series so we’d get a good 10 songs from that as well to make up for the lack off songs from the series

and then there’s the spirits. We’d get a few from mario RPG and if Nintendo and sakurai really want to take things further they’ll use some that aren’t in the game already from the mario and Luigi series.

honestly I’d feel a bit sorry for hero fans and cloud fans if Geno gets in because his music situation and spirit situation is something square Enix can’t control and Nintendo does.

Nintendo basically doesn't own anything in SMRPG that didn't exist before the game itself, so that includes music

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So Fatmanonice , what do you think about the idea of Echo bonus fighters coming in between the FP2 fighters? I think the bonus Echos wouldn't have to be a Echo of the FP2 fighters but just a character from the same series. For example:

Challenger Pack: Dixie Kong

Bonus Echo Fighter: Funky Kong ( Echo)

 

[Spatulo]

If Geno is added and if there are any shenanigans with his music/content, they can get around that by using the other Mario RPG music and spirits. Heck, they could make the RPG music into a separate category, like what they did with the Kart music.

We need the battle themes from every PM and M&L at a minimum

 

[Let Geno Smash]

So Fatmanonice , what do you think about the idea of Echo bonus fighters coming in between the FP2 fighters? I think the bonus Echos wouldn't have to be a Echo of the FP2 fighters but just a character from the same series. For example:

Challenger Pack: Dixie Kong

Bonus Echo Fighter: Funky Kong ( Echo)

He said that the only bonus who he expects are Waluigi and the Iwata Tribute but he can see Rayman and Sora
BTW: I think Funky is waaaaaaay to different to Donkey Kong

 

[MattX20]

I don't think we're getting any echo fighters for a good while frankly R RetrogamerMax

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think Funky is waaaaaaay to different to Donkey Kong

Well Dark Samus is too and she got in as Samus' Echo. Have you seen what Dark Samus could do in her games?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Powerman293 I also want to make mention that my whole spiel yesterday wasn't to dunk on you but honestly me talking to a younger me. In the Smash 4 days, I was pretty distraught. I was poor, sometime literally eating out of the trash and stealing food from faculty parties, paying my way through grad school by working sometimes up to 70 hours a week working food service and writing parking tickets, getting dangerously close to being an alcoholic, weighing probably about 170 despite being 6'6, averaging maybe 3-4 hours of sleep a night, and was managing my first serious relationship in close to a decade. My now wife and I shared a laptop, a car, and a bedroom probably the size of your typical kitchen. As I said yesterday, I was one year in my Master's program and basically told by a room of my professors to either drop out or change programs. Needless to say, I pretty disgruntled most days. I really wasn't super involved in the Geno fanbase in the Smash 4 days and kind of just chimed in, often saying Geno was a far flung hope and it was probably better if people invested their time supporting someone else. Nearly half a decade later, I regret it.

This thread was a lot smaller in the Smash 4 days but people like Psycho, Papagenos, and kiteinthesky kept it going. I'd pop in every once in awhile usually to "keep peoples' expectations in check" and then bounce for the other character threads. I thought I was doing the thread a favor but I really wasn't. I was basically taking out my own frustrations on the Smash fanbase that I helped found. Telling other people to have the same expectations as me was just dragging other people down. I thought I was being pragmatic when really it was muck spray the soiree. In a way, I was doing a disservice to my own community. There was already enough detractors on the outside, I really didn't need to be one of them. Does this mean people have to be positive all the time? No, but it's good to read the room if people are having a good time and optimistic, it's not good to stand in the mind of the room and start reading the obituaries.

Again, I'm not saying this to be an ass. I'm saying this because it is one of my biggest regrets in my Smash history and I feel like I missed out on a lot of potential friendships because of it and genuinely killed the enthusiasm for some very well meaning Geno fans. Yes, there's a time and place to tell a kid that Santa isn't real (unlike Cacomallow, HEY-OH) but one of the hard lessons I had to learn over the years is that there's real people behind all our goofy screennames and sometimes tact and sensitivity is far more important than being right.

 

[AugustusB]

If Geno is added and if there are any shenanigans with his music/content, they can get around that by using the other Mario RPG music and spirits. Heck, they could make the RPG music into a separate category, like what they did with the Kart music.

The big thing about Mario RPGs music is there is no clear answer to who owns it. As KCCHIEFS27 said, Nintendo does not own it, but in me and others findings, it's either Square or Yoko, herself owns the rights. If Yoko owns the rights...BIG MUSIC, MUCH JOY.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The big thing about Mario RPGs music is there is no clear answer to who owns it. As KCCHIEFS27 said, Nintendo does not own it, but in me and others findings, it's either Square or Yoko, herself owns the rights. If Yoko owns the rights...BIG MUSIC, MUCH JOY.

While we really don't know who owns the rights to SMRPG's soundtrack, I would like to assume it's Yoko instead of Square. She would be kind enough to give us a SNK number of songs.

 

[Vector Victor]

Powerman293 I also want to make mention that my whole spiel yesterday wasn't to dunk on you but honestly me talking to a younger me. In the Smash 4 days, I was pretty distraught. I was poor, sometime literally eating out of the trash and stealing food from faculty parties, paying my way through grad school by working sometimes up to 70 hours a week working food service and writing parking tickets, getting dangerously close to being an alcoholic, weighing probably about 170 despite being 6'6, averaging maybe 3-4 hours of sleep a night, and was managing my first serious relationship in close to a decade. My now wife and I shared a laptop, a car, and a bedroom probably the size of your typical kitchen. As I said yesterday, I was one year in my Master's program and basically told by a room of my professors to either drop out or change programs. Needless to say, I pretty disgruntled most days. I really wasn't super involved in the Geno fanbase in the Smash 4 days and kind of just chimed in, often saying Geno was a far flung hope and it was probably better if people invested their time supporting someone else. Nearly half a decade later, I regret it.

This thread was a lot smaller in the Smash 4 days but people like Psycho, Papagenos, and kiteinthesky kept it going. I'd pop in every once in awhile usually to "keep peoples' expectations in check" and then bounce for the other character threads. I thought I was doing the thread a favor but I really wasn't. I was basically taking out my own frustrations on the Smash fanbase that I helped found. Telling other people to have the same expectations as me was just dragging other people down. I thought I was being pragmatic when really it was muck spray the soiree. In a way, I was doing a disservice to my own community. There was already enough detractors on the outside, I really didn't need to be one of them. Does this mean people have to be positive all the time? No, but it's good to read the room if people are having a good time and optimistic, it's not good to stand in the mind of the room and start reading the obituaries.

Again, I'm not saying this to be an ass. I'm saying this because it is one of my biggest regrets in my Smash history and I feel like I missed out on a lot of potential friendships because of it and genuinely killed the enthusiasm for some very well meaning Geno fans. Yes, there's a time and place to tell a kid that Santa isn't real (unlike Cacomallow, HEY-OH) but one of the hard lessons I had to learn over the years is that there's real people behind all our goofy screennames and sometimes tact and sensitivity is far more important than being right.

It also doesn't help when people who come in here claiming that they want 'honest discussion' and 'have people here to be open to different opinions' that it usually boils down to 'getting the Geno thread to believe he doesn't have that much of a chance.' For such fair and open debate, the 'correct' end result of these discussions is always changing the minds of fans and making them doubt his addition. But questioning their stance that he is not happening is seen as unacceptable as that's just their opinion and we need to respect that.

And honestly, going into a support thread and telling people to offer up evidence/coincidences in his favor in order to make a video to debunk his chances is in poor taste.

 

[Droodle]

I'd still say that Square owns the SMRPG music, unless its a weird outlier with Yoko.

If Geno gets in, we should expect 2 SMRPG music tracks, however Nintendo may end up adding more music from other Mario RPGs.

Something like FF15 in TEKKEN got only 2 music tracks despite Yoko composing that soundtrack too. Outside of FF, Nier Automata in Soul Calibur 2 ended up with 2 tracks despite it being a different composer altogether.

 

[Enigma735]

I'd still say that Square owns the SMRPG music, unless its a weird outlier with Yoko.

If Geno gets in, we should expect 2 SMRPG music tracks, however Nintendo may end up adding more music from other Mario RPGs.

Something like FF15 in TEKKEN got only 2 music tracks despite Yoko composing that soundtrack too. Outside of FF, Nier Automata in Soul Calibur 2 ended up with 2 tracks despite it being a different composer altogether.

It could be possible, but Yoko doesn't seem to be stingy with her music, whereas the FF and DQ composers notoriously are. I'm of the opinion that Square really isn't stingy, but everyone around them is. I'm pretty sure if Geno gets in, he will come with more then just two tracks.

 

[Firox]

It also doesn't help when people who come in here claiming that they want 'honest discussion' and 'have people here to be open to different opinions' that it usually boils down to 'getting the Geno thread to believe he doesn't have that much of a chance.' For such fair and open debate, the 'correct' end result of these discussions is always changing the minds of fans and making them doubt his addition. But questioning their stance that he is not happening is seen as unacceptable as that's just their opinion and we need to respect that.

And honestly, going into a support thread and telling people to offer up evidence/coincidences in his favor in order to make a video to debunk his chances is in poor taste.

I'm just wondering when people are gonna figure out that nobody in the history of the world has ever been convinced of an opposing view by simply being told "YOU'RE WRONG". You want to make a point? You want to convince people that your logic is superior?

STEP 1: Present your argument without personally attacking the integrity of your opponent.

STEP 2: (THE MOST IMPORTANT) PRESENT MOTHER FREAKING EVIDENCE! Not opinion. Not anecdotal pseudo-facts. Not half-truths. Not circular reasoning. Actual, relevant, unbiased facts.

STEP 3: (THE MOST DIFFICULT FOR 99.99% OF THE HUMAN RACE) Listen to the counter points! The opposition will try to dismantle the validity of your evidence. Do any of THEIR points have merit? Do they actually succeed in finding holes in your logic? If so, determine who's actually right. HINT: It may not be you.

If people want to offer opposing views for Geno's chances, be my guest, but when people come in here spouting crap like "abandon hope" or "temper expectations, he doesn't really stand a chance" you're just wasting everyone's time, especially your own. Do your research BEFORE taking a swing at the ideas we've had months (if not years) to solidify. Then, if you have some evidence we haven't already considered (which would be a surprise to me), bring it on.

 

[zferolie]

So Fatmanonice , next month is the 5th anniversary of Iwatas passing. Think we will see this iwata tribute character then? And who do we all think it will be? His most well known creation is the Baloon fighters right, but who else did he create not in smash yet?

 

[Nicnac]

So Fatmanonice , next month is the 5th anniversary of Iwatas passing. Think we will see this iwata tribute character then? And who do we all think it will be? His most well known creation is the Baloon fighters right, but who else did he create not in smash yet?

Gonna be honest, I doubt Sakurai has been counting the years since Iwata died just so he can add a tribute on the anniversary month of his death, and it kinda rubs me the wrong way that this is an idea. If they didn't release Min-Min on the 3rd anniversary they won't showcase an Iwata tribute on the month he passed.

 

[Crankshadow]

As for music , I’m pretty sure it’s Yoko’s for original tracks, (not Mario music remixes) except the culex theme. She regularly uses “beware the forest mushrooms” and “goodbye Geno” in her concerts.

Its nice to actually post this cycle, I have been around since brawl speculation but pretty much have been a lurker until ultimate. I have a good feeling now is our time to have our boi give it a whirl.

 

[zferolie]

Gonna be honest, I doubt Sakurai has been counting the years since Iwata died just so he can add a tribute on the anniversary month of his death, and it kinda rubs me the wrong way that this is an idea. If they didn't release Min-Min on the 3rd anniversary they won't showcase an Iwata tribute on the month he passed.

I dont think it has to be viewed in poor taste. I just was saying, it could be a way to honor him, especially since its most likely free you know?

 

[Enigma735]

So Fatmanonice , next month is the 5th anniversary of Iwatas passing. Think we will see this iwata tribute character then? And who do we all think it will be? His most well known creation is the Baloon fighters right, but who else did he create not in smash yet?

I could honestly see Balloon Fighter get included. We haven't had our usual NES rep for this game yet and Balloon Fighter was one of the many NES characters that Sakurai considered for Melee. Balloon Fighter or maybe even Ninten would easily be the best tribute fighters for Iwata. I personally can't see them get included in an actual Pass, but I do believe they could be some top candidates for some bonus fighters they could include

 

[Fatmanonice]

So Fatmanonice , next month is the 5th anniversary of Iwatas passing. Think we will see this iwata tribute character then? And who do we all think it will be? His most well known creation is the Baloon fighters right, but who else did he create not in smash yet?

No. This goes out to R RetrogamerMax because you've asked several times too but the reason I don't really talk on this topic here because I was literally told by two mods to not bring it up because a number of people took that much offense to the rumor. I originally brought it up as a matter of fact thing, just reporting on something I had heard from one of my best contacts (coincidentally the first guy of who I talk to who suggested we were eventually getting Bethesda content outside of Cacodemon) but it struck a nerve and people got aggressively personal about it stunningly fast, with one person basically accusing me of being the worst person ever for even relaying it. That said, this originally came up in December/January so if it's true, I don't expect it to happen until near or at the very end of DLC. This will be the final time I will publicly address this rumor on Smashboards because I reeeeeeeally don't want to crowbar open that crate of harassment again.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I need to temper the expectations of people who think Geno is a lock for the next character. I remember Isaac having a similar thing pre Ultimate and that turned out to be nothing.

If you want to (note I said want because it's not something you "need" to do) temper expectations just hit people over the head with this:

 

[RingJ5]

I'd still say that Square owns the SMRPG music, unless its a weird outlier with Yoko.

If Geno gets in, we should expect 2 SMRPG music tracks, however Nintendo may end up adding more music from other Mario RPGs.

Something like FF15 in TEKKEN got only 2 music tracks despite Yoko composing that soundtrack too. Outside of FF, Nier Automata in Soul Calibur 2 ended up with 2 tracks despite it being a different composer altogether.

Wait, so you’re saying that “two tracks per Square game” isn’t just a Smash-only thing, we have multiple examples of that being Square’s preferred number for all recent fighting game appearances? That’s pretty important to keep in mind considering the takedowns.

 

[domriver]

I've been thinking a little.
Sakurai mentioned that he wanted Geno to be a playable character but could not get it and ended getting the Mii Costume.
Is it reasonable to say that when Sakurai/Nintendo approached Square Enix with the idea they said...... We want others characters first ( Hero and Cloud). We can throw in our "a-OK" for Geno afterwards? If that is the case then this whole waiting might make sense? They had to get into talks regarding Cloud then Hero. Now that I think of it. I think Geno was already done deal it was just matter getting over these two huge hurdles of Cloud and Hero before touching Geno. Now that Cloud and Hero are done - I don't know just a thought. What you guys think?
also isnt Geno owned by Nintendo and Square its just that they can't use Geno without the "approval of Square?"

 

[Enigma735]

I've been thinking a little.
Sakurai mentioned that he wanted Geno to be a playable character but could not get it and ended getting the Mii Costume.
Is it reasonable to say that when Sakurai/Nintendo approached Square Enix with the idea they said...... We want others characters first ( Hero and Cloud). We can throw in our "a-OK" for Geno afterwards? If that is the case then this whole waiting might make sense? They had to get into talks regarding Cloud then Hero. Now that I think of it. I think Geno was already done deal it was just matter getting over these two huge hurdles of Cloud and Hero before touching Geno. Now that Cloud and Hero are done - I don't know just a thought. What you guys think?
also isnt Geno owned by Nintendo and Square its just that they can't use Geno without the "approval of Square?"

I am a firm believer that when Nintendo was negotiating for Hero, that is when they decided to negotiate for Geno for FP2. It makes sense seeing how the evidence and strange hints in favor of Geno started cropping up right after Hero was revealed. Seeing how Final Fantasy And Dragon Quest already have reps, I don't see why Sakurai, Nintendo Or Square would turn down Geno at this point, especially since they all know how popular of a request Geno is.

 

[Droodle]

It could be possible, but Yoko doesn't seem to be stingy with her music, whereas the FF and DQ composers notoriously are. I'm of the opinion that Square really isn't stingy, but everyone around them is. I'm pretty sure if Geno gets in, he will come with more then just two tracks.

That's why I brought up FF15 since that is also composed by Yoko, yet only got 2 tracks in Tekken. I dunno if Yoko owns the music though, but she uses them regularly at her concerts and Square in general seems pretty weird with OST rights.

Wait, so you’re saying that “two tracks per Square game” isn’t just a Smash-only thing, we have multiple examples of that being Square’s preferred number for all recent fighting game appearances? That’s pretty important to keep in mind considering the takedowns.

As far as I can tell, its at least true for the Noctis collaboration in Tekken and 2B collaboration in Soul Calibur. I don't really know enough about the DLC practices of each game, so maybe that's just the norm for those.

 

[RingJ5]

I've been thinking a little.
Sakurai mentioned that he wanted Geno to be a playable character but could not get it and ended getting the Mii Costume.
Is it reasonable to say that when Sakurai/Nintendo approached Square Enix with the idea they said...... We want others characters first ( Hero and Cloud). We can throw in our "a-OK" for Geno afterwards? If that is the case then this whole waiting might make sense? They had to get into talks regarding Cloud then Hero. Now that I think of it. I think Geno was already done deal it was just matter getting over these two huge hurdles of Cloud and Hero before touching Geno. Now that Cloud and Hero are done - I don't know just a thought. What you guys think?
also isnt Geno owned by Nintendo and Square its just that they can't use Geno without the "approval of Square?"

Geno, as a character, is owned by Square. However, his backstory is specifically tied to Mario series concepts like the Star Road, so they can’t really use him for anything. It’s a weird situation.

 

[AdamBel731]

I am of two minds in regards to Super Mario RPG music in Smash. On the one hand, Square is protective of their IP and does own Super Mario RPG's "original elements" and its music, but... I mean, you all are my lads and lassies, but I think we all know that Super Mario RPG and its pedigree and fame is a bit different than the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest franchise. Obviously, this isn't some dunk on Super Mario RPG, but I think the game's smaller stature and pedigree will actually work in its favor. (Heck I doubt SE even consider the game that much of a SE game.)

As we know, Final Fantasy VII and Dragon Quest's composers are quite the "interesting" bunch (especially the latter). Final Fantasy's music is, apparently, owned by many different people and VII's composer doesn't like to give it out usually. Then we have Dragon Quest's composer and, well, I could write a whole thing on him (as I'm sure a lot of you know why). My point is that those two composers are from storied franchises that are massive for Square. As such, the rights to those soundtracks are hard to acquire.

Super Mario RPG, well, isn't hard to acquire I'm sure. Again, this isn't me dunking on the game, but the game is still a decently old RPG that hasn't been capitalized on due to its dual-owned nature. Yes the game is popular, but I don't need to state the obvious in terms of the popularity difference between Super Mario RPG and the two aforementioned franchises from before. Square can't make any money off the game aside from when Nintendo wants to reference or use something from the game. On top of that, Super Mario RPG's composer, as we all know, is a darling to who is more than happy to remix and work with Nintendo. So perhaps SE may in fact only allow two songs if Geno gets in, but I honestly don't know about that since SE likely doesn't care about the game too much (since it is essentially an old, underutilized Nintendo game that they can't use) and its composer isn't a penny-pincher and is cooperative. Ultimately, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest may be a strange set of circumstances as to why their music is so sparce in Smash. We have yet to see a SE franchise whose music isn't a nightmare yet, so we don't know for sure if SE is always going to be stingy with it


Personally, I give it a 70% chance that there will be a decent amount of music. What are your thoughts Fatmanonice and everyone else? I think my rationale makes sense, but I'm open to different opinions, of course.

 

[T2by4]

Going back to this. If they were to use at least one of these costumes each presentation, like they have been, the absolute LATEST Geno can be revealed as a costume or as a fighter is for the 5th fighter of this pass. The two MH costumes would be paired together, lloyd, gil, and obviously the chocobo comes with Geno. But I'm hoping Geno gets revealed this next smash presentation or at least reveal his costume and not drag it out. The fact we've come this far with sakurai knowing his popularity and the backlash they got from Lloyd for dragging him on really gives me hope that sakurai wouldn't just deluxe mii costume geno. Especially considering that would be FOUR deluxe mii GUNNER costumes. That would give sword/brawler only 2 costumes to work with each would feel completely unbalanced for deluxe mii costumes.

 

[MattX20]

View attachment 276245

Going back to this. If they were to use at least one of these costumes each presentation, like they have been, the absolute LATEST Geno can be revealed as a costume or as a fighter is for the 5th fighter of this pass. The two MH costumes would be paired together, lloyd, gil, and obviously the chocobo comes with Geno. But I'm hoping Geno gets revealed this next smash presentation or at least reveal his costume and not drag it out. The fact we've come this far with sakurai knowing his popularity and the backlash they got from Lloyd for dragging him on really gives me hope that sakurai wouldn't just deluxe mii costume geno. Especially considering that would be FOUR deluxe mii GUNNER costumes. That would give sword/brawler only 2 costumes to work with each would feel completely unbalanced for deluxe mii costumes.

I don't think Geno and Lloyd's Mii Costumes are going to return since they're likely getting upgraded to full character status