Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CannonStreak]

Hey guys, I just want to post this thing I posted on another topic. Now, I still want Geno in, and am not against his inclusion. However, I'd thought I'd show some reasons for and against Geno in Smash Bros. Ultimate, as well as reasons why is not in yet.

Reasons why he may get in.

-High fan demand

-Sakurai likes him and wants him in

-Good gameplay potential

-Square no longer being stingy with their characters.

-Spirits do not deconfirm

Reasons why he as not in yet.

-Cloud was the last veteran to get into Ultimate

-Hero was decided to be DLC first

Reasons against him getting in.

-Irrelavancy, has not appeared in a game for along time, not counting the cameo in the original Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga

-Was a supporting character, compared to Banjo-Kazooie and K. Rool, who were main characters and had a bigger legacy.

-Was in one game,

-While the one game he was in was fondly remembered, he was just one part that made it good.

-Not many people outside his fanbase may know who Geno is.

-Accessibility to his games is limited as the rereleases are few in number

-May not be profitable

-Nintendo is choosing the DLC characters, not Sakurai, and thus they may have little interest in him.

-Came from a spinoff and not one game

-He is owned by a different company

-Nintendo might stilll be stingy about letting him in Smash Bros. Ultimate

-Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is obscure, and Geno, by extension, is probably even more obscure.

-Heihachi was also wanted by Sakurai, but Heihachi was added in as a Mii Costume, which could apply to Geno.

-There are other Square characters, let along characters from other companies that could get in before Geno.

So here, Geno has more against him than for him. He can still get in, but he has some significant, big odds to beat here. What do you all think?

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'm a little late to the party, but I doubt we really need "tempered expectations". I doubt anyone here thinks Geno's a 100% guarantee. Yeah, sometimes we say stuff implying such, like "he's in!", but that's more of a tongue-in-cheek phrase than what we truly think. It's easier to type "he's in!" than "yet another good piece of evidence in Geno's favor". We know stuff is really just good evidence. We know there's a good possibility Geno won't get in. We don't need to go through a whole song and dance about it every time something pointing in his favor comes along. Let people have fun and hope for their character

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Since Street Fighter IV, I believe the series has been registered under Capcom USA because there's this one guy... Whose name I can never remember... That played an enormous role in not only creating the standard Street Fighter competitive rules but also helps a ton with balancing patches. Nintendo even got him years agonto make competitive tutorial videos for Brawl that were kind of cringey (not because of him but because Brawl was unbalanced as holy hell).

Yeah I think it was before IV, like 2004 or 2005, that Capcom sold the Street Fighter rights to Capcom USA. I remember being confused how a company sells its rights to itself, which I still am, to be fair. Never heard why they did it though

 

[AdamBel731]

I agree that not everything Jon says should be examined under a microscope. Like if he just says a one-off comment and doesn't really push it, then yeah, I don't think you should look into it too much.

But as we've seen with Jon, he does indeed have insider information, dlibt about it. Need I remind people about how he just somehow "randomly" predicted Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn out of the blue? I think Jon is worth thinking about when he constantly pushes something. Does that mean his words are gospel? Absolutely not and people should not think of him as a leaker. However, when Jon consistently pushed a first party character as Fighter #5, that was maybe something to at least consider. And especially how Jon kept pushing that a Spirit upgrade would happen (heavily implying #6).

Again, Jon isn't a leaker nor should we think he is always hinting at things. But Jon has been pushing an Assist Trophy upgrade alongside the Spirit upgrade for months now... so I think, at the very least, that Jon may know something in that aspect. And if not, we should at least just heed his words or consider them.

 

[CannonStreak]

Jon, from ResetERA or Gamexplain? What did he say?

 

[AdamBel731]

Jon, from ResetERA or Gamexplain? What did he say?

GameXplain. Nothing too new necessarily, but he has gone back to pushing the idea that an Assist Trophy will be updated. I made a post the other night how Jon even posted a link of all of the Assist Trophy restrictions on stages (a lot of which don't seem to be common knowledge to the general community, as Fatman didn't even know about most of those).

Anything earth-shattering or new? Nah. But after Fatman has been throwing around the idea of Geno and Waluigi being DLC and Waluigi being a promotion... the timing was just ironic that Jon began pushing that Assist Trophy idea again. Again, I don't think Jon is leaking, but maybe his words should be considered is all.

 

[MattX20]

Let's try not to talk about Jon again for a while, if you recall what happened the last time we did

 

[Datboigeno]

Wow I didn't realize there was that much pushback for the idea of that video I wanted to do.

I think aside from all the good points others have brought up as to why such a video would be unnecessary I think it’s fair for you to take a step back and think “Who is this video for?”. Like if you’re going to take the time to produce such a video it has to have an intended audience, right? But really, everyone here is already aware that Geno isn’t necessarily a lock even if people say they’re sure he’s in. There’s always a chance things could go in another direction. So really it’d more than likely end up being fodder for the types of people who would come into this thread or other places with Geno support to make bad faith arguments. And is that what you actually want?

 

[Icewolff92]

There's enough evidence for Geno beyond John Carwright's tweets.

Even if there were no "evidence" (I don´t believe in evidence, I see them more as coincidence) there is no worth reading them through a microscope. Did he know something in the past? Sure, but it´s clear that he is not in that game anymore. For fudge sake, I saw someone on 4chan put the picture on the childbed that he and his fiance had fixed on twitter and asked if he "hinted" towards something. He is pissed that people are overly reading everything he writes and understandable so.

 

[Xehanort1372019]

I can't believe this took me this long to gather my thoughts about what happened on Monday.

Min Min: I was wrong about Spring Man being the ARMS rep, but I'm not mad Min Min got it. I'm really glad she got in! Her design is great, her gimmicks look unique, and she looks fun to play! I can't wait to play as her, on Monday!

Spring Stadium: Was hoping Sky Arena would be the one, due to it being the final boss area, but Spring Stadium looks fun to play on, for causally players to have fun on.

Music: 18 songs from ARMS. 2 less from my prediction of 20, but it was close enough. I was wrong on remixes since we're getting two. But the music from ARMS is a binger to listen to.

Spirits: Wrong on Spirts on ranks and roles, and the other four DLC characters from ARMS won't be in it. Not even Biff and Hedlok.

Heihachi: Feel bad for his fans. I know how much they wanted him in since he's an iconic character from a big fighting series, such as Tekken. But I'm sure his support will grow stronger for his inclusion in Smash from this, for the next smash game...or a port for Ultimate, on the next Nintendo console.

Vault Boy: Was not expecting a Vault Boy Mii costume! I know Fatman said we would get some Bethesda content in Smash, but Fallout was the last gaming series I was expecting to get content in!

The Spirit Rule: Truly glad to see this fan rule dead. As of now, Spirits are now on the table again for speculation for playable status, like Geno, Rayman, Shantae, and Dixie Kong!

Conclusion: It was a really good day for many fans on Monday...including us Geno fans. For our puppet star boy feels closer than ever to be playable in Smash!

 

[Fatmanonice]

YeppersPeppers TheShiningAbsol

Alright, I'll level with you two. If our parameters are strictly the copyrights on the title screen (discarding things like trademarks and publishers), this is the revised version of "Mii Costume Debt."

Konami (yes.)

SEGA (no. No new costume)

Capcom (no. No new costume and 2 MIA costumes)

Namco (no. No new costume and 2 MIA costumes)

Square Enix (no. 2 MIA costumes)

ATLUS (yes.)

Microsoft (no. No new costume)

SNK (yes.)

It's almost the same. Only difference is that Platinum is totally gone. Beyond that, Square content has only ever come with other Square content including spirits so this still very heavily implies that the 2 MIA costumes would still be coming with a Square pack. Beyond that, Microsoft becomes an umbrella but, even without the RARE truck nuts attachment, still suggests they still have a "debt" of at least one new Mii costume.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

YeppersPeppers TheShiningAbsol

Alright, I'll level with you two. If our parameters are strictly the copyrights on the title screen (discarding things like trademarks and publishers), this is the revised version of "Mii Costume Debt."

Konami (yes.)

SEGA (no. No new costume)

Capcom (no. No new costume and 2 MIA costumes)

Namco (no. No new costume and 2 MIA costumes)

Square Enix (no. 2 MIA costumes)

ATLUS (yes.)

Microsoft (no. No new costume)

SNK (yes.)

It's almost the same. Only difference is that Platinum is totally gone. Beyond that, Square content has only ever come with other Square content including spirits so this still very heavily implies that the 2 MIA costumes would still be coming with a Square pack. Beyond that, Microsoft becomes an umbrella but, even without the RARE truck nuts attachment, still suggests they still have a "debt" of at least one new Mii costume.

Well now you forgot Capcom USA

 

[ActualGarbage]

GameXplain. Nothing too new necessarily, but he has gone back to pushing the idea that an Assist Trophy will be updated. I made a post the other night how Jon even posted a link of all of the Assist Trophy restrictions on stages (a lot of which don't seem to be common knowledge to the general community, as Fatman didn't even know about most of those).

Anything earth-shattering or new? Nah. But after Fatman has been throwing around the idea of Geno and Waluigi being DLC and Waluigi being a promotion... the timing was just ironic that Jon began pushing that Assist Trophy idea again. Again, I don't think Jon is leaking, but maybe his words should be considered is all.

Yo I hate that stupid assist trophy restrictions, I'm just out here hoping into training to donkey punch some assist trophies to death on a pretty stage and it goes "sowwy you can't use this one hewe" and squanders my enjoyment, utter trash.

 

[CannonStreak]

Despite the list of things I posted above, I just want to say, detractors and otherwise nonbelievers seem to be forgetting one thing...

The power of wanting and believing in something.

It's how K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie got in. It can happen with Geno. Believing in what you want can be a powerful thing, right?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well now you forgot Capcom USA

Well, their "Mii Costume debt" would be 1 Mii costume which, honestly, I'm kind of surprised we haven't gotten a Street Fighter Mii costume yet. Chun-Li would be cool.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Hey guys, I just want to post this thing I posted on another topic. Now, I still want Geno in, and am not against his inclusion. However, I'd thought I'd show some reasons for and against Geno in Smash Bros. Ultimate, as well as reasons why is not in yet.

Reasons why he may get in.

-High fan demand

-Sakurai likes him and wants him in

-Good gameplay potential

-Square no longer being stingy with their characters.

-Spirits do not deconfirm

Reasons why he as not in yet.

-Cloud was the last veteran to get into Ultimate

-Hero was decided to be DLC first

Reasons against him getting in.

-Irrelavancy, has not appeared in a game for along time, not counting the cameo in the original Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga

-Was a supporting character, compared to Banjo-Kazooie and K. Rool, who were main characters and had a bigger legacy.

-Was in one game,

-While the one game he was in was fondly remembered, he was just one part that made it good.

-Not many people outside his fanbase may know who Geno is.

-Accessibility to his games is limited as the rereleases are few in number

-May not be profitable

-Nintendo is choosing the DLC characters, not Sakurai, and thus they may have little interest in him.

-Came from a spinoff and not one game

-He is owned by a different company

-Nintendo might stilll be stingy about letting him in Smash Bros. Ultimate

-Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is obscure, and Geno, by extension, is probably even more obscure.

-Heihachi was also wanted by Sakurai, but Heihachi was added in as a Mii Costume, which could apply to Geno.

-There are other Square characters, let along characters from other companies that could get in before Geno.

So here, Geno has more against him than for him. He can still get in, but he has some significant, big odds to beat here. What do you all think?

Not bad, however several of your points against him all fall under the same relevancy umbrella. Your last point against him also literally applies to everyone so is a non issue honestly. And being owned by different companies or rather maybe it'd be better to say something like "weird legalities being owned by two separate companies" but honestly also seems to be a non issue with some other characters we've gotten who are also in strange legal limbo albeit not the exact same situation as Geno. Also he is literally not a supporting character (look up the definition - he's explicitly tied into the story therefore cannot be a supporting character), he is a party member. Also, in his favor you left out the focus that Ultimate has on fan picks and the "impossible". Other than that I think I pretty much agree but with all those changes and taking into account many coincidences lining up in his favor, I'd say it's pretty much 50/50 for Geno.

 

[MattX20]

Well, their "Mii Costume debt" would be 1 Mii costume which, honestly, I'm kind of surprised we haven't gotten a Street Fighter Mii costume yet. Chun-Li would be cool.

I recall Sakurai initially considered Chun Li before Ken, so maybe a costume for her?

 

[CannonStreak]

Not bad, however several of your points against him all fall under the same relevancy umbrella. Your last point against him also literally applies to everyone so is a non issue honestly. And being owned by different companies or rather maybe it'd be better to say something like "weird legalities being owned by two separate companies" but honestly also seems to be a non issue with some other characters we've gotten who are also in strange legal limbo albeit not the exact same situation as Geno. Also he is literally not a supporting character (look up the definition - he's explicitly tied into the story therefore cannot be a supporting character), he is a party member. Also, in his favor you left out the focus that Ultimate has on fan picks and the "impossible". Other than that I think I pretty much agree but with all those changes and taking into account many coincidences lining up in his favor, I'd say it's pretty much 50/50 for Geno.

Of course. I guess I forgot he was one of the main characters and a party member. Someone else called him a supporting character which is why I added that. Still, the nonbelievers and detractors, as I have said above, do forget about the power of wanting and believing in something, or in this case, someone. It's more powerful than they may think.

I'd call his chances 50/50 as well.

 

[Enigma735]

I seriously cannot stress enough just how happy I am that we got a Spirit upgrade. Sure, an ARMS rep might not have sounded exciting on paper, but I swear this character was a blessing in disguise for us. By far Geno's biggest thing going against him for getting included, especially for FP1, was his role as a Spirit. Now that we got a Spirit upgrade with Min Min, it just puts a huge smile to my face that what was once Geno's biggest hurdle, is no longer an issue and detractors can no longer use that excuse to say he can't be coming. They will say he is too obscure, of course, but just remember they said Ridley was too big, K. Rool was too irrelevant, and Banjo was too impossible because of working with a competitor. Nothing is impossible when it comes to Smash. Geno has the demand from fans and even Sakurai himself, and he comes from the first ever Mario RPG. That in of itself I feel is enough for him to get included. Random detractors on random message boards have no say over what Sakurai does. Sakurai does what he wants to do and nothing is gonna hold him back if it means pleasing as much fans as possible.

Mark my words. GENO WILL BE IN SUPER SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE.

 

[MattX20]

I seriously cannot stress enough just how happy I am that we got a Spirit upgrade. Sure, an ARMS rep might not have sounded exciting on paper, but I swear this character was a blessing in disguise for us. By far Geno's biggest thing going against him for getting included, especially for FP1, was his role as a Spirit. Now that we got a Spirit upgrade with Min Min, it just puts a huge smile to my face that what was once Geno's biggest hurdle, is no longer an issue and detractors can no longer use that excuse to say he can't be coming. They will say he is too obscure, of course, but just remember they said Ridley was too big, K. Rool was too irrelevant, and Banjo was too impossible because of working with a competitor. Nothing is impossible when it comes to Smash. Geno has the demand from fans and even Sakurai himself, and he comes from the first ever Mario RPG. That in of itself I feel is enough for him to get included. Random detractors on random message boards have no say over what Sakurai does. Sakurai does what he wants to do and nothing is gonna hold him back if it means pleasing as much fans as possible.

Mark my words. GENO WILL BE IN SUPER SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE.

That's what we're all hoping for

 

[SSGuy]

I ended up getting Fighter's Pass 2 already. I feel like Sakurai and the team deserve it. Last time, I waited until the night before Terry was released in bitter disappointment over and other misfortunes that came our way.

I think this time around I have a much different outlook of the situation and I am ready to accept whether or not Geno is destined to be a character or remain as a spirit/mii fighter costume. I think the ladder will sting and it will seem unfair, but I don't see myself ever really hanging onto this disappointment forever. I mentioned this in a post almost 50 pages ago but Operation StarFall has really brought out the best that we as a collective group can offer. I think whether we end up getting our ultimate wish granted, I think history will be very kind to us and will forever keep us in a good light.

I don't intend of giving up on getting Geno and Mallow to return in some form. It's going to be a good while until this pass ends so we will just need to keep going.

 

[MattX20]

Has Smashboards been down for anyone else or was it just me?

 

[CannonStreak]

Has Smashboards been down for anyone else or was it just me?

No, it was not just you. I have had issues as well.

 

[MattX20]

No, it was not just you. I have had issues as well.

Just wanted to be sure

 

[QQS]

I ended up getting Fighter's Pass 2 already. I feel like Sakurai and the team deserve it. Last time, I waited until the night before Terry was released in bitter disappointment over and other misfortunes that came our way.

I think this time around I have a much different outlook of the situation and I am ready to accept whether or not Geno is destined to be a character or remain as a spirit/mii fighter costume. I think the ladder will sting and it will seem unfair, but I don't see myself ever really hanging onto this disappointment forever. I mentioned this in a post almost 50 pages ago but Operation StarFall has really brought out the best that we as a collective group can offer. I think whether we end up getting our ultimate wish granted, I think history will be very kind to us and will forever keep us in a good light.

I don't intend of giving up on getting Geno and Mallow to return in some form. It's going to be a good while until this pass ends so we will just need to keep going.

Best decision ever cause Geno is coming full playable in the first half of the FP2!

 

[Xehanort1372019]

Has Smashboards been down for anyone else or was it just me?

From my end, everything was going slow, and sometimes it goes to a bad gateway.

 

[CannonStreak]

Best decision ever cause Geno is coming full playable in the first half of the FP2!

I'd hate to be that guy, but I wouldn't want to be that sure of it. There is a chance he could not show up.

 

[QQS]

I'd hate to be that guy, but I wouldn't want to be that sure of it. There is a chance he could not show up.

Not a single chance of not coming playable, my friend. But well, time will tell.

 

[CannonStreak]

Not a single chance of not coming playable, my friend. But well, time will tell.

Just promise me and yourself that you won't get disappointed, upset, enraged, etc. if he is not in.

 

[Theguy123]

so what ideas does everyone have for the next fighter. Personally I’d like to see a trailer on how spirits turn into fighter.

Sakurai said during the final smash direct before release that spirit fighters weren’t like regular fighters so it would be interesting if we got a trailer for a spirit (hoping Geno) fighter that shows how they escape their spirit form And become playable

 

[QQS]

Just promise me and yourself that you won't get disappointed, upset, enraged, etc. if he is not in.

It’s called faith. You can’t see it, but you can feel it.

 

[CannonStreak]

It’s called faith. You can’t see it, but you can feel it.

Faith doesn't always lead to getting what you want, ya know. I do have faith, but I am also a realist. It is best to keep one's certainty at between 100 and 0 percent. Do what you do, but if you get upset or enraged from the lack of Geno if he doesn't make it in, I don't know what to tell you.

Except I tried to tell you.

 

[QQS]

Faith doesn't always lead to getting what you want, ya know. I do have faith, but I am also a realist. It is best to keep one's certainty at between 100 and 0 percent. Do what you do, but if you get upset or enraged from the lack of Geno if he doesn't make it in, I don't know what to tell you.

Except I tried to tell you.

I know. But I was 9 years when the first Smash was released and I kind of know how Sakurai logic works. He wants this character and he found the perfect moment, finally. Now it’s just a matter of time. Im not not a kind of visionary or anything, I just think he has 100% chances of being playable.

Best wishes

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Looks like someone didn't read the conversation from last night

 

[CannonStreak]

I know. But I was 9 years when the first Smash was released and I kind of know how Sakurai logic works. He wants this character and he found the perfect moment, finally. Now it’s just a matter of time. Im not not a kind of visionary or anything, I just think he has 100% chances of being playable.

Best wishes

You're still mistaken if Geno has a sure chance of-NO, JUST KIDDING! It's all good.

Best wishes to you too, by the way.

 

[ZerBerry]

Just promise me and yourself that you won't get disappointed, upset, enraged, etc. if he is not in.

Why should we be disappointed, upset and enraged when mankind is willing to agree that this is almost the ending !
It's just a matter of time before the puppet warrior will make his return and the reaction will be amazing !
Once we will know that the visitor from above is coming,
This thread will finally take his long awaited break from speculating.
Come on ♪!?, the emotion of your return from the stars will be overwhelming !
And as we shall remember this huge ride, we will main you in the game of beating !

 

[QQS]

Looks like someone didn't read the conversation from last night

which part?

 

[CannonStreak]

Why should we be disappointed, upset and enraged when mankind is willing to agree that this is almost the ending !
It's just a matter of time before the puppet warrior will make his return and the reaction will be amazing !
Once we will know that the visitor from above is coming,
This thread will finally take his long awaited break from speculating.
Come on ♪!?, the emotion of your return from the stars will be overwhelming !
And as we shall remember this huge ride, we will main you in the game of beating !

Eh, not all mankind, considering some nonbelievers, but I think everything else above gets the job done.

 

[Griselda]

so what ideas does everyone have for the next fighter. Personally I’d like to see a trailer on how spirits turn into fighter.

Sakurai said during the final smash direct before release that spirit fighters weren’t like regular fighters so it would be interesting if we got a trailer for a spirit (hoping Geno) fighter that shows how they escape their spirit form And become playable

I want some more visual representation of the whole spirit/world of light situation, honestly. We've seen them fighting puppet fighters, but have we seen them saving one of the captured actual fighters, yet? I want to see that, and I want to see them making camp somewhere in the game map, and I actually kinda want to see how this whole thing started. Wasn't it stated that the first cutscene where everyone gets disintegrated was actually set at the end of a whole campaign against Galeem that we just didn't get to see? What happened to the fighters that weren't present on the cliff at that moment?

 

[Nicnac]

Just promise me and yourself that you won't get disappointed, upset, enraged, etc. if he is not in.

Sorry mate, if Geno wasn't in I was planning on burning down a couple schools, stealing all the food out of every Greggs in Scotland and then blowing up a kitten shelter or twelve to release some anger

Seriously though, I think most of us will be fine if Geno doesn't get in. Disappointed, sure, but that's not really new to us. Your concern is appreciated but we know what may go down. It's happened before.