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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
You know....after watching the trailer again....

we NEED to have Ramen Falcon.

and every time he uses his b special he yells FALCON LUNCH!!! instead.

Make it happen Nintendo.


To keep with Geno....

The tears of the Geno haters because they have no more excuses is delicious. Goes Great with the Ramen Noodles.
 
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axel_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
359
So now that the dust has settled a bit, I think it's a good idea to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. There's a certain costume I think deserves a bit more discussion than it's getting at the moment.

View attachment 275861
Just kidding, we've talked enough about him, it's actually this guy.
View attachment 275863
Yep, the crossover king Heihachi got shafted a second time, so what? Well, just the fact that it's back here at all carries some obvious but still impactful implications.
  • We now know with almost 100% certainty that some returning Mii Costumes were moved from the first pass to the second. They only planned for 5 DLC characters so all the Smash 4 costumes would have had to return in those 5 characters, yet that obviously didn't happen but here is Heihachi now because they decided to make more DLC characters. I know that sounds super obvious but there are people who legitimately seemed to think that the costumes that didn't show up in Pass 1 wouldn't come back at all.
  • Now that we've established this, Geno and Chocobo NOT returning with Hero looks even more suspicious. It's still the only pack released to not come with any returning costumes. For someone like Heihachi, it makes sense for him to get moved. Terry already had two returning fighting costumes, ARMS is another fighting game, Namco even helped work on ARMS, he slots into the pack nicely. Meanwhile we have the perfect slot for both Square costumes to come back and they didn't show up. The question is, where did they get moved to? Keep in mind Hero released at the end of July, before they even announced more DLC, so whoever they did get moved to has to have been one of the first characters decided. And given they still didn't show up with Min-Min, I think you get the idea.
  • The fact that it's Heihachi that's returned raises some interesting eyebrows. I don't know about you guys, but I think pretty much everyone was anticipating the missing Namco costumes to return with a presumed Namco rep in Pass 2, yet here he is at the very start. If they were doing a Namco pack, wouldn't it make sense for them to hold onto him to be released alongside the character? I feel like this hurts Namco's chances quite a bit.
  • "Well why hold onto the costumes at all then?" Padding for later packs I suppose, just like we saw today with Heihachi. I don't anticipate this happenning with the Square costumes because of what I said earlier but I'm less confident in the other two sets of company costumes holding as much weight in terms of characters being added.
You know what hurts the most about Heihachi, and Tekken in general, getting shafted so badly again? Virtua Fighter, who I'd argue had much less impact on 3D gaming and 3D models in fighting games, and is also in the typical SEGA coma, has way more representation. It's kinda sad.
 

Enigma735

Smash Lord
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Apr 5, 2020
Messages
1,322
Location
Mt. Cuminshidmore
Switch FC
SW-0889-8796-1569
Hi! my name is Marcelo from Chile.
Im follow this forum since 2019, but my love for Geno is since when i played super mario rpg in 1999.
Iam the typical no registred user in this forum, but! in this specially ocation im coming here to share this doll was i order. Its beautiful, its a great day for the genobros and this is the best gift who i can recibe in the day when the spirits rule was broken.
Saludos desde Chile.
P.S: Sorry for my bad english, but this lenguage never was my stronger ability.
Dude where did you get that plush from? That honestly just might be my favorite fan-made plush for Geno.
 

Buzzwole

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
529
You have to admit, revealing 77 on 7/7/2020 is definitely a once in a lifetime thing.
It would absolutely be the most fitting thing in the world.
Its just a shame that they don't seem to take stuff like that into consideration. I mean ARMS' third birthday was just a few days ago. It would have been nice to reveal Min Min on that day but they didn't even acknowledge it.

As awesome as it would be, I just hope people don't get their hopes up for anything on that day.
 

Enigma735

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,322
Location
Mt. Cuminshidmore
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SW-0889-8796-1569
Going back to the Ness visual glitch discussion from earlier, I actually want to make an interesting point that I just realized and never heard anyone on here talk about or bring up.

Apparently, this visual glitch occurs during Ness's victory pose where he does a nod. This is interesting to note, as most of you know in Super Mario RPG, Geno's victory pose after winning a battle is doing a nod, in which the only difference is that Geno crosses his arms. I've heard some people say Ness wouldn't work as a base for Geno, but with this in mind, this could be what this visual glitch could be for.
 
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Datboigeno

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
1,835
Location
Washington
The date is June 22 2021

Geno was revealed as a playable DLC character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch in July 2020

Geno has been playable since September 2021

There are still regular gamefaqs threads denying the existence of Geno. They say that he will never be in the game even as they get 3-stocked by a Geno on Quickplay.
 
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Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
I'm absolutely not accusing you of this. It wasn't anybody in this thread. I think I'm bitter towards it because people on discord were complete assholes about it. Sorry if I came across as too harsh. I realize this site probably hasn't had the same issues, and I shouldn't demean people who legitimately wanted that.
No worries. I know how toxic discord can be. Look on the bright sight: You got an absolutely gorgeous Min Min in smash bros Ultimate! Truly a testament to how much love Sakurai gives his inclusions. I can't help but hype over how glorious Geno will be to get the same treatment!
 

Franauts

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
48
2 Bandai Namco mii cosumes left (Smash 4)
-Lloyd Irving
-Gilgamesh (Tower of Druaga)

And 3 leaked by the "Mii costume guy"
-Kos-Mos
-Ms. Pac-man
-Nightmare

Total Bandai Namco Mii costumes = 5

Assuming one of the Mii mentioned above will be promoted (Lloyd and Heihachi always seemed like the most obvious options, even Sakurai has said so) and knowing that Heihachi most likely will not be that promoted character; we have 4 Bandai Namco Miis, just add one "Deluxe Mii costume"And voila, there you have your Mii wave, I guess waiting for Lloyd seems the most logical thing.

It's not just a good time to be a Geno fan, but also a Lloyd fan
 

Paraspikey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
441
Going back to the Ness visual glitch discussion from earlier, I actually want to make an interesting point that I just realized and never heard anyone on here talk about or bring up.

Apparently, this visual glitch occurs during Ness's victory pose where he does a nod. This is interesting to note, as most of you know in Super Mario RPG, Geno's victory pose after winning a battle is doing a nod, in which the only difference is that Geno crosses his arms. I've heard some people say Ness wouldn't work as a base for Geno, but with this in mind, this could be what this visual glitch could be for.
Ness would be a really good base for Geno in most places...
-Model
-Animations
and, yes...
-Victory Screens.

If the glitch only happens when Ness nods, then they could of used Ness taunts/model/code as a base for Geno to make it overall easier on development, due to COVID-19 restrictions and stuff like this.

Ness doesn't have anything relating to Min Min that would make much sense, and the Bayonetta glitch pointed to Min Min and Twintelle, so...
 

axel_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
359
2 Bandai Namco mii cosumes left (Smash 4)
-Lloyd Irving
-Gilgamesh (Tower of Druaga)

And 3 leaked by the "Mii costume guy"
-Kos-Mos
-Ms. Pac-man
-Nightmare

Total Bandai Namco Mii costumes = 5

Assuming one of the Mii mentioned above will be promoted (Lloyd and Heihachi always seemed like the most obvious options, even Sakurai has said so) and knowing that Heihachi most likely will not be that promoted character; we have 4 Bandai Namco Miis, just add one "Deluxe Mii costume"And voila, there you have your Mii wave, I guess waiting for Lloyd seems the most logical thing.

It's not just a good time to be a Geno fan, but also a Lloyd fan
inb4
1592885010552.png

Ness would be a really good base for Geno in most places...
-Model
-Animations
and, yes...
-Victory Screens.

If the glitch only happens when Ness nods, then they could of used Ness taunts/model/code as a base for Geno to make it overall easier on development, due to COVID-19 restrictions and stuff like this.

Ness doesn't have anything relating to Min Min that would make much sense, and the Bayonetta glitch pointed to Min Min and Twintelle, so...
Worth noting the guy who fought during the Ness glitch said it was during the whole game. He saved a replay and when he opened it, the eyes were back for some reason.
 
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EarlTamm

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,348
What do you guys think will happen to Geno during his reveal trailer?
Not sure. I don't think they will go for the envelope grabbing that the Terry and Min Min trailers went for, neither do I think it will be a sequel to some other trailer. My main hope is that they find a way to reunite Geno with his party members while still giving an opportunity for a crossover aspect.
 

Droodle

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,185
Location
Milky Way
So now that the dust has settled a bit, I think it's a good idea to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. There's a certain costume I think deserves a bit more discussion than it's getting at the moment.

View attachment 275861
Just kidding, we've talked enough about him, it's actually this guy.
View attachment 275863
Yep, the crossover king Heihachi got shafted a second time, so what? Well, just the fact that it's back here at all carries some obvious but still impactful implications.
  • We now know with almost 100% certainty that some returning Mii Costumes were moved from the first pass to the second. They only planned for 5 DLC characters so all the Smash 4 costumes would have had to return in those 5 characters, yet that obviously didn't happen but here is Heihachi now because they decided to make more DLC characters. I know that sounds super obvious but there are people who legitimately seemed to think that the costumes that didn't show up in Pass 1 wouldn't come back at all.
  • Now that we've established this, Geno and Chocobo NOT returning with Hero looks even more suspicious. It's still the only pack released to not come with any returning costumes. For someone like Heihachi, it makes sense for him to get moved. Terry already had two returning fighting costumes, ARMS is another fighting game, Namco even helped work on ARMS, he slots into the pack nicely. Meanwhile we have the perfect slot for both Square costumes to come back and they didn't show up. The question is, where did they get moved to? Keep in mind Hero released at the end of July, before they even announced more DLC, so whoever they did get moved to has to have been one of the first characters decided. And given they still didn't show up with Min-Min, I think you get the idea.
  • The fact that it's Heihachi that's returned raises some interesting eyebrows. I don't know about you guys, but I think pretty much everyone was anticipating the missing Namco costumes to return with a presumed Namco rep in Pass 2, yet here he is at the very start. If they were doing a Namco pack, wouldn't it make sense for them to hold onto him to be released alongside the character? I feel like this hurts Namco's chances quite a bit.
  • "Well why hold onto the costumes at all then?" Padding for later packs I suppose, just like we saw today with Heihachi. I don't anticipate this happenning with the Square costumes because of what I said earlier but I'm less confident in the other two sets of company costumes holding as much weight in terms of characters being added.
To be fair, I've thought about this... and I've concluded that Mii costume waves are determined by Sakurai and the team playing darts. All the mii costumes are actually done, so they use competition to see who survives and who doesn't/

Heihachi? He's coming with Min-Min.
Lloyd/Gil? Totally a mii costumes for a Master Chief playable character.
Monster Hunter? Going to be a mii costume for the likes of Arle, totally.
Geno? Totally going to be a mii costume for Travis Touchdown
Chocobo? I dunno, but I think it would make sense for it to come with a playable Qbert.




To be serious, I've given up on mii costumes making any real sense now. There's pretty much no "theme" accompanying a character anymore, and they've shown that they're willing to delay costumes to unrelated fighter packs. Geno, Lloyd, Monster Hunter are all likely to be playable just because their mii costumes haven't returned yet, but who knows maybe they have really bad luck and get costumed incredibly late. I'm pretty sure Sakurai likes Heihachi considering that he was thinking of making him playable in Smash 4, but even he wasn't safe from the delay-deconfirmation.

Downplaying the Heihachi delay isn't really good. Sure, Terry already had a couple returning mii costumes, but lets be honest no one was really expecting Akira or Jacky to be playable, besides it's not like they couldn't have fit Heihachi in there too, considering we have had 6 mii costumes in the same wave before. Sure technically ARMS fits, but how would you feel if FP 7 turns out to be Paper Mario and he comes with a Geno costume? Sure, technically it works; but it's still a **** move to delay him if he's just going to turn out to be a mii costume especially if we don't end up with a Namco rep.

Thankfully, if everything follows expectations we should continue to get at the very least 1-2 returning costumes every pack or so. And by the time FP 8 rolls around, most of these costumes should have returned or straight up have been upgraded (or heavily implied to have been upgraded).

So overall unless something like the Geno mii costume returns, I'll just stop thinking about the suspicions of a missing mii costume entirely. Geno, Lloyd, Monster Hunter are all in good spots, but I'm not going to count a missing mii costume as a huge point FOR them anymore but rather as proof that they're just still on the table. They all have good points supporting them, without even making missing mii costumes a huge deal.

-Geno naturally has extremely high fan demand and a lot of other things in his favor. He doesn't really need anything else to have a shot.
-Tales is the one of the few big JRPGS left in Japan, that's enough to justify the fact that they can get a rep for Tales. Now the question is if that rep will be --Lloyd, but he's definitely high up there.
-Monster Hunter is well, it's MONSTER HUNTER. It's Capcom's biggest series currently and that's saying a lot. I don't really need to explain myself anymore, even if I think MH is more about the monsters rather then the Hunters. Still a valid option.
-Chocobo, I guess another FF rep would capture a lot of the general audience; but I think a lot of Smash fans would be a little upset. Regardless, as a gaming franchise, FF is probably the biggest 3rd party series in Smash (Sonic is bigger in terms of overall entertainment). Sure, it already has a rep; but FF is high up there for a 3rd party series that is justifiably big enough for 2 reps. That said, I don't think Chocobo would be that second rep.

I doubt that we'll get all of them playable, but I wouldn't be surprised if we walked away with 2 of the above as playable characters in Smash. Not counting potential leaks, I think they're all in the same likelihood of being playable; each one has their own strengths and weakness of what they bring to the table. I would put Heihachi up there too, but he's kinda dead at this point.

inb4
View attachment 275879


Worth noting the guy who fought during the Ness glitch said it was during the whole game. He saved a replay and when he opened it, the eyes were back for some reason.
I try to stop doing Lloyd vs Yuri posts now (because I like them both). But I will still die on the hill that the best possible Tales rep would be a combination of Yuri and Repede. The most popular Tales character, and his doggo (most popular mascot); when people see that you CAN pet the dog (and that it helps you in battle), I doubt people would complain that he only wields a single sword.
 
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Paraspikey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
441
Worth noting the guy who fought during the Ness glitch said it was during the whole game. He saved a replay and when he opened it, the eyes were back for some reason.
Might of been misremembering, if it was a reply, it shouldn't of returned.
Even if it did, Ness's visual glitch only being added in the most recent patch (7.0.0.), means that something must of happened regarding him.
 

MrJudd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
361
Not sure. I don't think they will go for the envelope grabbing that the Terry and Min Min trailers went for, neither do I think it will be a sequel to some other trailer. My main hope is that they find a way to reunite Geno with his party members while still giving an opportunity for a crossover aspect.
I think there's one scenario: recreating Geno's awakening in Rose Town (no idea on the artstyle, but it wouldn't give away the character: that's a job for the jingle) and have Link and Samus appear there, since they already made cameos in Super Mario RPG (Link was even on the hotel where Geno awakened) + Donkey Kong as an enemy.
 
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_Fun.Tendo_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
37
2 Bandai Namco mii cosumes left (Smash 4)
-Lloyd Irving
-Gilgamesh (Tower of Druaga)

And 3 leaked by the "Mii costume guy"
-Kos-Mos
-Ms. Pac-man
-Nightmare

Total Bandai Namco Mii costumes = 5

Assuming one of the Mii mentioned above will be promoted (Lloyd and Heihachi always seemed like the most obvious options, even Sakurai has said so) and knowing that Heihachi most likely will not be that promoted character; we have 4 Bandai Namco Miis, just add one "Deluxe Mii costume"And voila, there you have your Mii wave, I guess waiting for Lloyd seems the most logical thing.

It's not just a good time to be a Geno fan, but also a Lloyd fan
Funny enough eariler today, I thought of a Namco character who could work as a deluxe Mii Costume, which is Dig Dug. His overall appearance I believe could really suit one such costume if they wanted to do it.
 

EarlTamm

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,348
I think there's one scenario: recreating Geno's awakening in Rose Town (no idea on the artstyle, but it wouldn't give away the character: that's a job for the jingle) and have Link and Samus appear there, since they already made cameos in Super Mario RPG (Link was even on the hotel where Geno awakened) + Donkey Kong as an enemy.
The jingle should definitely be the aspect that is the immediate tip-off for an awakening style trailer! Those who know the game will be rewarded with a clue of whats happening, but those unaware will still get a mystical buildup. And I could see them having Link and Samus decide to spend the night at the Rose Town Inn(Of course, that wouldn't be immediately obvious unless you recognize some layout hints), leading into the awakening of Geno downstairs. We did get the pair of Falcon and Kirby today, so duos of OG Smash fighters is a thing.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,089
About the Ness Glitch happening only in the victory animation, that's not actually true

if you look closely in the video, before they even go to the victory animation, you already see that Ness's eyes are gone. If you also go to the comment section, The Ness Player himself (apparently) says it was gone the entire match.

in spite of this, i have come around to Ness being used for characters like Geno or Reimu who, while they don't share Ness's eyes, do have similar builds and abilities or attributes

Video again so you don'y have to search

 

axel_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
359
About the Ness Glitch happening only in the victory animation, that's not actually true

if you look closely in the video, before they even go to the victory animation, you already see that Ness's eyes are gone. If you also go to the comment section, The Ness Player himself (apparently) says it was gone the entire match.

in spite of this, i have come around to Ness being used for characters like Geno or Reimu who, while they don't share Ness's eyes, do have similar builds and abilities or attributes

Video again so you don'y have to search

Again, I think the reason the eyes are gone has something to do with the bodygroups for Geno's eye animations. However, I've been thinking:
What if the reason Ness's eyes are missing, assuming he is a base for Geno, is because Geno's eyes do something special visually that no other model really has, like animated textures? If this glitch is trying to replicate something this unreleased fighter does, causing an error, it just gets rid of the texture all together.
 

Paraspikey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
441
About the Ness Glitch happening only in the victory animation, that's not actually true

if you look closely in the video, before they even go to the victory animation, you already see that Ness's eyes are gone. If you also go to the comment section, The Ness Player himself (apparently) says it was gone the entire match.

in spite of this, i have come around to Ness being used for characters like Geno or Reimu who, while they don't share Ness's eyes, do have similar builds and abilities or attributes

Video again so you don'y have to search

Ah, alright, thank you for clearing it up!
 

AdamBel731

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
756
Since I've posted this art here the last few times a new character has been added to it, I figured I'd show people the updated version of the art SchAlternate SchAlternate made!

IMG_20200623_000528.jpg


Great art as always. As I've said before, I really love ensemble pieces like this with all of the Ultimate newcomers. I enjoy how this one is stylized and a little more "cartoonish." I look forward to when Geno is added to this (since he will get in and all).


His Twitter account is
( SchAlternate SchAlternate ): https://twitter.com/SchAlternate?s=09
if you want to give him a follow. I do so I always can see this art right away!
 
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YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
Looking at the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate fighters section on the official website, I'm looking at the squares of the DLC fighters and, a curious pattern triggered in my mind.

  • One (Piranha Plant), Two (Joker), Three (Hero), Banjo & Kazooie
  • One (Terry Bogard), Two (Byleth), Three (Min Min), ... ??? (Geno perhaps?)
  • One (???), Two (???), Three (???), ...??? (another highly fan requested character from the days of yore; similar to Banjo & Geno)?
Then again, that's just a silly pattern. For now, we wait for June 29th for Min Min's release, and keep an eye for the first couple of days of July (maybe?).
 

Franauts

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
48
in spite of this, i have come around to Ness being used for characters like Geno or Reimu who, while they don't share Ness's eyes, do have similar builds and abilities or attributes
As a Porky fan, I am hopeful that perhaps Ness is being used as the basis to create Porky, they come from the same game, same aesthetics, probably they are the same age, also Porky doesn´t have eyes, or at least we can´t see them, his hair covers half of his face. I don't know anything about datamining or those programming things, I just want to have faith. Geno would be cool too, it's a win win situation for me.
 
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DuoStuff

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
12
Haven't gotten to write my thoughts on the Arms presentation. Was really busy today ironically.
But yeah, I'm glad they chose Min Min, not only because she was my personal favorite Arms character, but I'm glad to see that the "spirits deconfirm characters" rule is gone. Min Min honestly looks like a blast, and her trailer was one of my favorite ones we've gotten for the DLC. Hopefully Min Min gets more people to give Arms a chance, because honestly I think it's a really fun game that's seriously underrated.
 

super88cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
400
Switch FC
Sw-1747-1648-3976
Haven't gotten to write my thoughts on the Arms presentation. Was really busy today ironically.
But yeah, I'm glad they chose Min Min, not only because she was my personal favorite Arms character, but I'm glad to see that the "spirits deconfirm characters" rule is gone. Min Min honestly looks like a blast, and her trailer was one of my favorite ones we've gotten for the DLC. Hopefully Min Min gets more people to give Arms a chance, because honestly I think it's a really fun game that's seriously underrated.
Bought it day one, and sold it july of that year. It´s a fun game, if you have brothers and see friends regularly.

As a Porky fan, I am hopeful that perhaps Ness is being used as the basis to create Porky, they come from the same game, same aesthetics, probably they are the same age, also Porky doesn´t have eyes, or at least we can´t see them, his hair covers half of his face. I don't know anything about datamining or those programming things, I just want to have faith. Geno would be cool too, it's a win win situation for me.
I don´t understand the whole model glitch theory. Heard the theory that Bayo was glitching and people were speculating twintelle, cuz of the hair powers.
But it´s not really done so much though.
 

AdamBel731

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
756
I'm up a little later than I typically am, but I wanted to post this here and hear Fatmanonice Fatmanonice 's opinion on it.

20200623_033436.jpg


I'm hoping Jon doesn't find this and smite the thread on Twitter, but Jon has reiterated multiple times now how Spirits AND Assist Trophies can he prompted. Fatman, you yourself often quote that video Jon made debunking a lot of fan rules. So Min Min is revealed proving his Spirit theory correct, but it appears Jon is possibly doubling down on the Assist Trophy promotion once again. ...right after you yourself reaffirmed your confidence in Waluigi coming along with Geno due to a variety of factors as of late. What do you make of this, Fatman?

(P.S.: I went to the link Jon posted, and holy crap I didn't realize how many Assist Trophies don't show up on stages. Everyone always cites Alucard and Knuckles, but geez there are way more restrictions with Assist Trophies than I thought. And that kind of renews my faith in a "snowglobe hell" promotion.)
 
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RedMachine123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Messages
130
Location
Spain
I'm honestly sorry I keep bringing attention to the Geno detractors from GameFAQs but C'MON. This post was so ridiculous that I could just NOT share with you all. Goalpost moving at its finest.

Also, implying that Sakurai even considered Min Min and even Ninjara, two characters that are Spirits.

View attachment 275835
If remember correctly, Lord Woomy Lord Woomy made a post talking about what new excuses the detractors would use if Min Min was the new fighter, one of them being exactly this: "bEcAuSe It WaS a SpEcIaL rEqUeSt". So I guess that he won the bet lol.

This meme was made by OffBi OffBi , and it's by far one of my favorites:

NUU.png
 

yakko789

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
81
Location
Salt Lake UT
Hey Peeps! I'm late to the discussion, but I've been lurking and reading your posts. I was really happy watching the Min Min presentation yesterday morning because I finally felt that "spirits deconfirm characters" rule disappear. I'm still hoping for Geno! I would love it if he got fighter pass #7 and became fighter #77. Still wishing for this miracle to happen!
 

Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
18,432
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
I'm up a little later than I typically am, but I wanted to post this here and hear Fatmanonice Fatmanonice 's opinion on it.

View attachment 275905

I'm hoping Jon doesn't find this and smite the thread on Twitter, but Jon has reiterated multiple times now how Spirits AND Assist Trophies can he prompted. Fatman, you yourself often quote that video Jon made debunking a lot of fan rules. So Min Min is revealed proving his Spirit theory correct, but it appears Jon is possibly doubling down on the Assist Trophy promotion once again. ...right after you yourself reaffirmed your confidence in Waluigi coming along with Geno due to a variety of factors as of late. What do you make of this, Fatman?

(P.S.: I went to the link Jon posted, and holy crap I didn't realize how many Assist Trophies don't show up on stages. Everyone always cites Alucard and Knuckles, but geez there are way more restrictions with Assist Trophies than I thought. And that kind of renews my faith in a "snowglobe hell" promotion.)
Holy hell... Here's the link for you all:

https://www.serebii.net/smashbrosultimate/assisttrophy.shtml

I had NO idea the feature ran this deep... TL;DR version: more than 3/4ths of the ATs are turned off on specific stages. Even Wah-Mah-Gah is apparently turned off on particular stages.
 

Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
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So I've seen a lot of people stressing about the belated appearance of Heihachi's costume and using that to say that Geno could get shafted just as easily. While technically possible, lemme just say that I honestly don't think Sakurai would be that cruel. Consider this: Geno has not only had a sizeable following since Brawl, but even Sakurai has acknowledged his demand on SEVERAL occasions. I refuse to believe that Sakurai would be so incredibly tone deaf and apathetic that he would wait until pretty much the very end of Ultimate's development cycle to finally twist in the knife. He could have dropped Geno's costume with the base game. He didn't. He could have easily dropped it with Hero. He didn't. As we've seen, he could have dropped it with pretty much ANY character. He didn't. He even went so far as to promote a spirit and go out of his way to say that spirit battles could get retconned in the future. Why the hell would he feed our hope for SO LONG only to bone us hard at the end?

The thing is, I'm fairly confident that if he were planning to bone Geno for season 2, then he would have dropped the costume with Byleth at the latest. And let's be honest, all due respect to Heihachi, his following was never anywhere near the level of Geno, nor was his potential moveset considered to be as interesting by the general fandom. The two characters are not an "apples to apples" scenario so we can't really say one's fate dictates the other.
 

Penguinbowler

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Pretty much. Bottom line is that the "turn off" option is so deeply implemented into the game that promoting an AT into playable would be a none issue. Once I get to a stopping point at work, I'll do an analysis on this.
I honestly think if they wanted to premote an assist trophy they'd just make a new model of another character for them, have said model take the place of the assist trophy, and then use the origenal character as a character.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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So I've seen a lot of people stressing about the belated appearance of Heihachi's costume and using that to say that Geno could get shafted just as easily. While technically possible, lemme just say that I honestly don't think Sakurai would be that cruel. Consider this: Geno has not only had a sizeable following since Brawl, but even Sakurai has acknowledged his demand on SEVERAL occasions. I refuse to believe that Sakurai would be so incredibly tone deaf and apathetic that he would wait until pretty much the very end of Ultimate's development cycle to finally twist in the knife. He could have dropped Geno's costume with the base game. He didn't. He could have easily dropped it with Hero. He didn't. As we've seen, he could have dropped it with pretty much ANY character. He didn't. He even went so far as to promote a spirit and go out of his way to say that spirit battles could get retconned in the future. Why the hell would he feed our hope for SO LONG only to bone us hard at the end?

The thing is, I'm fairly confident that if he were planning to bone Geno for season 2, then he would have dropped the costume with Byleth at the latest. And let's be honest, all due respect to Heihachi, his following was never anywhere near the level of Geno, nor was his potential moveset considered to be as interesting by the general fandom. The two characters are not an "apples to apples" scenario so we can't really say one's fate dictates the other.
I mean, one could say the same regarding Shadow and Isaac. Everyone was super sure Shadow was in, and people were confident on Isaac. and yet they were revealed at literally the last possible moment.

The only difference i see between Geno and those 2 is that he has been mentioned in a positive light by Sakurai. So i see Author Appeal beign a big benefit for him (Author Appeal was pretty much the biggest reason Min Min got in, although the appeal came from the Producer of Arms, not Sakurai)
 

RedMachine123

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While technically possible, lemme just say that I honestly don't think Sakurai would be that cruel.
Sakurai? Of course not. Nintendo? I'm not that sure, it's true that Nintendo was who chose Banjo but honestly, who knows?

He could have dropped Geno's costume with the base game. He didn't. He could have easily dropped it with Hero. He didn't. As we've seen, he could have dropped it with pretty much ANY character. He didn't.
Nintendo could have dropped the Heihachi Mii costume with the base game. They didn't. They could have easily dropped it with Terry. They didn't. As we've seen, they could have dropped it with pretty much ANY character. They didn't. Because they were saving him for the second season of DLC.

However I don't think that the Geno Mii costume can come back with any character, the Geno Mii costume could only come back with another Square Enix character that is not Geno. That's pretty obvious, but what I'm trying to say is that the fact that the Geno Mii costume wasn't released with the Hero could mean that he's just being saved to be released with another character just like the Heihachi Mii costume.
 
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Phoenix Douchebag

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I could see the Geno Mii Costume coming back with Lloyd as a playable character and viceversa (Lloyd Mii costume coming back with Geno as a playable fighter). The Virtua Fighter Mii Costumes came back with Terry, and Heihachi came back with Min Min. All of them are fighting games, and SMRPG and Tales are RPGs. Yes one is turn-based and the other is an action RPG but go ahead and try to convince people that Tekken and ARMS play the same.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Sakurai? Of course not. Nintendo? I'm not that sure, it's true that Nintendo was who chose Banjo but honestly, who knows?



Nintendo could have dropped the Heihachi Mii costume with the base game. They didn't. They could have easily dropped it with Terry. They didn't. As we've seen, they could have dropped it with pretty much ANY character. They didn't. Because they were saving him for the second season of DLC.

However I don't think that the Geno Mii costume can come back with any character, the Geno Mii costume could only come back with another Square Enix character that is not Geno. That's pretty obvious, but what I'm trying to say is that the fact that the Geno Mii costume wasn't released with the Hero could mean that he's just being saved to be released with another character just like the Heihachi Mii costume.
I'm feeling the same thing. I'm hopeful for Geno and what we've seen (and not seen) is somewhat encouraging. But years of Smash hype cycles have taught me that the only thing that's for sure about Nintendo's thinking/timing is that nothing's for sure. To be frank, a Geno costume (even a deluxe one) just randomly dropping alongside some entirely unrelated fighter circa early 2021? It doesn't feel out of step with what we've seen before with beloved characters.

Its the same thinking that's had me set my expectations when watching general Directs; too many incidents of letting myself get caught up into patterns and rumors to the point where various mundane presentations ended up as big letdowns because of my own ill-placed hype. I'm cautiously optimistic for Geno, but I've already envisioned and prepared myself for a scenario where he's just a costume because its one that is so very easy to see happening.
 

Fatmanonice

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Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate-Assist-Trophy-List.jpg


Here's the full list of Assist Trophies in Ultimate. Let's break it down:

Likely won't be promoted for obvious reasons:

-Moon
-Klaptrap
-Metroid
-Fried Chicken Dog
-Dr. Wright
-Snagret
-Yuri
-Kapp'n
-Mother Brain
-Starfy
-Dr. Wily
-Nikki
-Starman
-Dr. Kawashima
-Rathalos
-Thwomp
-Pong
-Andross
-Flies and Swatter
-Nightmare
-Riki
-Ghosts
-Chain Chomp
-Knuckle Joe Biden
-Sheriff
-Hammer Bro
-Devil

One unique third party character per franchise is still heavily implied:

-Shadow
-Guile
-Alucard
-Gray Fox
-Rodin

Characters likely not given Mii costumes because of midriff/upskirt controversy:

-Krystal
-Tiki
-Phosphora
-Lyn

Japanese exclusives:

-Sukapon
-Prince Sable

Indie:

-Shovel Knight

Already converted into Mii costumes:

-Akira
-Ashley
-Takamaru
-Knuckles
-Skull Kid
-Squid Sisters
-Zero
-Black Knight
-Isaac
-Midna
-Arcade Bunny
-Spring Man
-Vince

So, crossing out all these characters, here's who we're left with:

-Ghirahim
-Dillon
-Waluigi
-Samurai Goroh
-Bomberman

That's it...

Being realistic, Ghirahim sure as hell isn't being promoted if Midna and Skull Kid are theoretically down and out, Dillion is by far the biggest niche pick here, and Goroh is not only a simple swordsman but his series has been dead for close to 17 years (big OOF). That then just cuts things down to these two:

-Waluigi
-Bomberman

Both definitely have their strengths but I feel Waluigi wins out. More popular, perfect Smash attendance since Melee, not third party, etc. If Nintendo was going to break the AT rule, I feel like they would do it with a character as close to the chest as possible and Waluigi being first party and from the Mario series definitely sticks some points up on the board for him.
 
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JoscarGamma

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1844EEF8-F01E-4E7D-866D-4803F2A7DF96.jpeg
Just wanted to share this with the community here. I made this after seeing the tweet about how the color background of each dlc fighter sorta matched with each star color from Mario rpg. Enjoy
 
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