Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Lord Woomy]

I'm honestly sorry I keep bringing attention to the Geno detractors from GameFAQs but C'MON. This post was so ridiculous that I could just NOT share with you all. Goalpost moving at its finest.

Also, implying that Sakurai even considered Min Min and even Ninjara, two characters that are Spirits.

View attachment 275835

"I was actually thinking of Min Min too, but also Ninjara" - Sakurai himself, discussing how he wanted to include one of 2 spirited characters.
Yup, totally just because Min Min was a special request. Nothing to see here, folks!

 

[MattX20]

The only thing we can do now is just hope we get the news confirming when FP7 is revealed comes sooner than later and that possibly the long wait for Geno comes to a close.

 

[YsDisciple]

Spoiler: for listening while reading

• On June 11, 2019, Nintendo broadcasted their E3 2019 Nintendo Direct. In it, they revealed both Hero, and Banjo & Kazooie as the next two DLC fighters from the first Fighters Pass (Challenger Packs 2, and 3). They were both given an estimated release date; Hero being in Summer, and Banjo & Kazooie being in Fall.
• A little over a month later; on July 30, 2019, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Hero" video. In it Mr. Sakurai goes into detail of the contents within Challenger Pack 2, as well as a set of Mii Costumes (all of them being Dragon Quest themed).
• A little over a month later; on September 4, 2019, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Banjo & Kazooie" video. In it Mr. Sakurai goes into detail of the contents within Challenger Pack 3, as well as revealing the Home Run Bat mode, and yet another set of Mii Costumes, which included the surprising addition of Sans from Undertale along with the Megalovania music track. At the beginning of this presentation, Sakurai stated that the Banjo & Kazooie presentation was recorded 2 days after the Hero demonstration (which was broadcasted on July 30th, 2019). It was on September 4th were Nintendo also uploaded its fall Nintendo Direct where they revealed Challenger Pack 3's release date, as well as revealed the 4th DLC fighter to be Terry Bogard (which was given the estimated release date of November).
• About two months later; on November 6, 2019, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakura Presents "Terry Bogard" video. Like the previous presentations, Sakurai goes into detail revealing the contents of Challenger Pack 4, as well as revealing more Mii Costumes (all themed after fighting game characters).
• About two months later; on January 16, 2020, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Byleth" video (originally titled ???? since prior to the video going live, the identity of Challenger Pack remained unknown). Sakurai went into detail explaining the contents of Challenger Pack 5, as well as revealing another set of Mii Costumes, among which was yet another surprise in the form of Cuphead which came along with the Floral Fury track. Sakurai also revealed in this presentation the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, which would include six Challenger Packs. The estimated time window in which all packs are expected to have been released is up to December 31, 2021.
• About a little over two months later; on March 26th, 2020, Nintendo uploads a Mini Direct. In it, they reveal that the first Challenger Pack of the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 is ARMS themed, yet they did not reveal which character would it be.
• Today (almost three months later); on June 22, 2020, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Min Min" video (like Byleth's, the title was different since the fighter was yet unknown). In it, Sakurai proceeded to detail the contents of the Challenger Pack 6, as well as reveal the next round of Mii Costumes, which included the addition of Vault Boy from the Fallout series (however unlike Sans and Cuphead, this one did not include a music track). At the beginning of the presentation Sakurai states that the current day in which he is presenting is May 2nd, 2020 (a little over a month from the announcement of the Nintendo Mini Direct).

Since the Mr. Sakurai presents videos, the average time window between character announcements has been of approximately two months. The latest present (Min Min's) arrived a bit later between reveals (almost three months later between the Mini Direct reveal, and the actual reveal; a little over five months since Byleth's reveal). The delay, as Nintendo in the Mini Direct stated, as well as Sakurai in today's presentation, can be attributed to the events that have transpired within the past months (as early as late January or early February). However, the wait time between Challenger Packs of a same Pass were around two months.

When Sakurai announced both the first Fighters Pass, and the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, he specified that he regretted not being able to show the contents of the offered passes at the moment (which is logical and understandable since no sane person would purchase an unknown good, unless the buyer already has knowledge of the maker; thus purchasing the good trusting on the maker's "good will"). Between the expected date of July 7th, 2020 for what some hope to be the day of Challenger Pack 7's reveal, taking into consideration the actual date in which Min Min's presentation was recorded (May 2nd, 2020), it would have been a little over two months. If counting between today (June 22nd) and July 7th, it'll be... kinda soon.

Dang... this took longer than I thought.

 

[Nicnac]

If this alleged 6/7 announcement ends up being Smash (Personally I doubt it but I'm open to being wrong) and fighter 7 gets announced the next day, we're two weeks away from them.

Assuming all the pieces fall into place we are two weeks from a potential Geno reveal. Am I expecting it? Nah, but it'd be nice.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You have to admit, revealing 77 on 7/7/2020 is definitely a once in a lifetime thing.

 

[JarBear]

Do it sakurai/Nintendo. Do it.

 

[Dreamking]

It does look like Min Min being a pre-existing spirit increases Geno's odds since it was dubious if Spirits decomfirmed playable.

 

[JarBear]

It does look like Min Min being a pre-existing spirit increases Geno's odds since it was dubious if Spirits decomfirmed playable.

The fan rule is finally dead. It’s glorious. His chances have shot up. It’s good times here my friend.

 

[axel_]

• About two months later; on January 16, 2020, Nintendo uploads the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Byleth" video (originally titled ???? since prior to the video going live, the identity of Challenger Pack remained unknown). Sakurai went into detail explaining the contents of Challenger Pack 5, as well as revealing another set of Mii Costumes, among which was yet another surprise in the form of Cuphead which came along with the Floral Fury track. Sakurai also revealed in this presentation the Fighters Pass Vol. 2, which would include six Challenger Packs. The estimated time window in which all packs are expected to have been released is up to December 31, 2021.

Don't forget to mention that Sakurai said the Byleth presentation was recorded in November, it's pretty critical for a lot of reasons.

 

[YsDisciple]

The Great Lad speaks Ye Holy Word of Smash.

 

[_Fun.Tendo_]

As of today, these are currently the missing DLC costumes from Smash 3DS/Wii U.

 

[owjies]

Hmmm, that Ness bug is interesting. I'd figure Geno would be the frontrunner if Ness is the next base model: round head, hat covering his hair, floaty, magic user. The eye glitch also makes sense because Geno's eyes would be modeled into his head and not just flat ovals textured on. Part of me wants to bundle in the Sheik glitch too because Geno Whirl with a timed hit would probably have some similar mechanics to Sheik's side B.

The only other character I can think of that would challenge Geno is Professor E. Gadd. He has similar proportions to ness and a round head with two dots for eyes. Perhaps the glitch could be caused by the addition of glasses. E. Gadd could also explain the lack of a Luigi's Mansion 3 spirit event and the rumored Gooigi mii costume. I'm not sure what level of following E. Gadd has had over the years, but I do remember there being a desire to see Luigi fight with the Poltergust for a long time.

 

[CannonStreak]

Hmmm, that Ness bug is interesting. I'd figure Geno would be the frontrunner if Ness is the next base model: round head, hat covering his hair, floaty, magic user. The eye glitch also makes sense because Geno's eyes would be modeled into his head and not just flat ovals textured on. Part of me wants to bundle in the Sheik glitch too because Geno Whirl with a timed hit would probably have some similar mechanics to Sheik's side B.

The only other character I can think of that would challenge Geno is Professor E. Gadd. He has similar proportions to ness and a round head with two dots for eyes. Perhaps the glitch could be caused by the addition of glasses. E. Gadd could also explain the lack of a Luigi's Mansion 3 spirit event and the rumored Gooigi mii costume. I'm not sure what level of following E. Gadd has had over the years, but I do remember there being a desire to see Luigi fight with the Poltergust for a long time.

Fun Fact: There was a rumor that Sakurai not only planned to have Geno playable in Brawl, but have Ness' voice actress voice Geno.

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

(inappropriate image; it was about a GameFAQs topic acting as though Geno is still disqualified somehow by moving the goalposts)
The salt from GameFAQS posters...it’s...delicious.

 

[Dorayaki]

As of today, these are currently the missing DLC costumes from Smash 3DS/Wii U.

That reminds me it kinda debunks "absent costumers confirmed for fighters" theory. I mean, the remaniing slots cannot have more than six....

But I don't care about that since the start, since I believe a fighter can still coexist with his/her costume. If Geno is a fighter in the future, I would still think Nintendo can provide his costume.

 

[Nicnac]

As of today, these are currently the missing DLC costumes from Smash 3DS/Wii U.

And then there were six.

I reckon we're getting a Capcom rep and a Square rep, but I'm not too sure on Bamco and I'm not really sure why.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

It would be nice if we got a direct in the first week of july, since it would be around my birthday, but I guess we'll see.

 

[Plank08]

Haven’t been here in a very long while, but congrats on the good news! Geno will be in for sure.

 

[Griselda]

Spirits

Fun Fact: There was a rumor that Sakurai not only planned to have Geno playable in Brawl, but have Ness' voice actor voice Geno.

I'm honestly not sure how I'd feel about Geno having a higher-ranged voice like that. I know that just like appearances, voices ultimately don't really mean much for the person themselves, but it'd still feel a little odd for a star soldier possessing a doll made of guns. Maybe it's just me.

That reminds me it kinda debunks "absent costumers confirmed for fighters" theory. I mean, the remaniing slots cannot have more than six....

Those first two are technically the same 'character', for what it's worth.

 

[_Fun.Tendo_]

That reminds me it kinda debunks "absent costumers confirmed for fighters" theory. I mean, the remaniing slots cannot have more than six....

But I don't care about that since the start, since I believe a fighter can still coexist with his/her costume. If Geno is a fighter in the future, I would still think Nintendo can provide his costume.

It's possible that some of these costumes will be come back together (example, the Monster Hunter set, like how the Mega Man ones returned at once alongside Byleth), but I agree with you on how them being missing doesn't equal to a fighter from that company 100% getting in.

 

[Flik]

Fun Fact: There was a rumor that Sakurai not only planned to have Geno playable in Brawl, but have Ness' voice actor voice Geno.

That would be Makiko Ohmoto's 3rd role in Smash, the other being Kirby.

I'm honestly not sure how I'd feel about Geno having a higher-ranged voice like that. I know that just like appearances, voices ultimately don't really mean much for the person themselves, but it'd still feel a little odd for a star soldier possessing a doll made of guns. Maybe it's just me.

I' give him a super deep voice like Chrom's in the japanese version, no, literally get Tomokazu Sugita to do the job

 

[_Fun.Tendo_]

Fun Fact: There was a rumor that Sakurai not only planned to have Geno playable in Brawl, but have Ness' voice actor voice Geno.

I'm not sure how I would feel about Geno being voiced by a female, as it sounds very strange picturing it in my head to say the least compare to Onmoto's roles of Kirby and Ness. Who knows maybe if that idea comes to pass, they'll make it sound just right.

 

[Sigran101]

So ARMS fans are the only ones that can dictate how Smash could implement ARMS? Sounds kind of prideful and gatekeepy to me. Granted, there was a lot of speculation by those that have never even played ARMS, but I for one was well aware of both sides of the argument. In either case, I don't remember the "Hero" crowd accusing the opposition of having a "stupid ass" view and dismissing it as "nonsense". It wasn't that hard to acknowledge the fact that those that opposed the "Hero" situation simply wanted to guarantee a more dedicated depiction of the characters. This was a reasonable desire, though given the unprecedented nature surrounding the DLC, it would have been presumptuous to simply handwave all other possible outcomes. Isn't that what speculation is about? Trying to predict the outcome? If we can't be civil about differing views then we're no better than the Geno detractors. When our predictions prove true, let's just accept victory with some class and humility rather than bring hostility to where there was none.



I sure hope you aren't accusing me of this. I was speculating about how Sakurai could use the SIMILARITIES between characters to fit more than one in the game. I fully understand your annoyance though if anyone here relegated ARMS to "stretchy punch out". That's as bad of an oversimplification as calling Geno "knock-off wizard Pinocchio" or something. Again, I for one never denied that there was individuality between characters. Rather, I argued HOW MUCH individuality was necessary to facilitate a character addition. Either way, if you've got an issue, take it up with the individual instead of bashing an entire idea simply because you felt it condescending. I'm sorry if you felt it was.

I'm absolutely not accusing you of this. It wasn't anybody in this thread. I think I'm bitter towards it because people on discord were complete assholes about it. Sorry if I came across as too harsh. I realize this site probably hasn't had the same issues, and I shouldn't demean people who legitimately wanted that.

 

[Griselda]

That would be Makiko Ohmoto's 3rd role in Smash, the other being Kirby.


I' give him a super deep voice like Chrom's in the japanese version, no, literally get Tomokazu Sugita to do the job

I'm not sure I'd want it deep, either, honestly. I'm still voting for Sean Chiplock doing a less dickish Revali voice.

 

[QQS]

It would be nice if we got a direct in the first week of july, since it would be around my birthday, but I guess we'll see.

4th of July:

-Independence of USA, most common area of Geno fans
-Independence of Geno after 24 years
-My birthday

Best wishes from Chile! Geno is a 100% for me, since ancient times

 

[Fatmanonice]

As of today, these are currently the missing DLC costumes from Smash 3DS/Wii U.

Three companies and two of the characters coincidentally happen to be the most popular Smash picks of their respective companies. Also Tales is celebrating its 25th anniversary and Super Mario its 35th this year as well. It's also worth mentioning two of these characters are some of the only characters Sakurai has spoken positively about in terms of Smash in the last 4 years that aren't playable yet.

 

[super88cloud]

https://twitter.com/RichieGonzo21/status/1275184582745341956
Couldn't find the original tweet so sorry for linking my post but yeah this is basically it.

Yeah, this is pareidolia. seeing patterns where there are none. I really doubt that **** is happening.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

That reminds me it kinda debunks "absent costumers confirmed for fighters" theory. I mean, the remaniing slots cannot have more than six....

But I don't care about that since the start, since I believe a fighter can still coexist with his/her costume. If Geno is a fighter in the future, I would still think Nintendo can provide his costume.

At no point did anyone say or believe all of them were going to be made playable, just that it’s one of the most interesting/revealing places to look for newcomers and what potential companies will be involved down the road. The only ones we entertain to be promoted are Geno, Lloyd, and until this morning, Heihachi

 

[AugustusB]

Hmmm, that Ness bug is interesting. I'd figure Geno would be the frontrunner if Ness is the next base model: round head, hat covering his hair, floaty, magic user. The eye glitch also makes sense because Geno's eyes would be modeled into his head and not just flat ovals textured on. Part of me wants to bundle in the Sheik glitch too because Geno Whirl with a timed hit would probably have some similar mechanics to Sheik's side B.

Honestly, I was messing around with Ness in training not long ago and...he would actually be a great base for Geno. I absolutely agree with the eyes being modeled into the head as oppose to layering it on top of it. And I say great as a base model is because of all the inputs. Seriously, go mess with Ness and I could see Geno pulling off some of the tilts, aerials and maybe even grabs. I was training against Mario and I could see Geno as that height.

Another thing I did was compare the "Possible" bases of the other DLC fighters (Example and ) and boy howdy, some of the moves are reaaally similar. So I think Ness used as a base for Geno is pretty likely IMO.

EDIT: Returning to Smithy/Guzma mix by Geno Boost I believe?

 

[_Fun.Tendo_]

Three companies and two of the characters coincidentally happen to be the most popular Smash picks of their respective companies. Also Tales is celebrating its 25th anniversary and Super Mario its 35th this year as well. It's also worth mentioning two of these characters are some of the only characters Sakurai has spoken positively about in terms of Smash in the last 4 years that aren't playable yet.

Pretty much certain if we get any upgraded Mii Costumes, it will be these two (unironically, they're both on my prediction list at the moment). Can't image Chocobo or Gil being in, and while there's a possible chance for the Monster Hunter, I don't it's all too likely to happen it and we'll probably just end up with them returing as costumes instead.

 

[owjies]

One thing that was unique with Heihachi's situation is that he's already had representation in Smash Ultimate via Pacman's taunt. If you look at all the third party Mii Costumes from 4, just about all have had some form of "promotion" or representation in Ultimate. Knuckles, Zero, Akira, and Rathalos appeared as ATs, Heihachi in Pacman's taunt, and Protoman was added to Megaman's final smash alongside X and EXE. From there that leaves Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Gil, Monster Hunter, Tails, and Jacky.

Tails, Jacky, and Monster Hunter may be accounted for by the promotions of Knuckles, Akira, and Rathalos. If so, that leaves really just Geno and Lloyd. Chocobo and Gil would theoretically return with potential Geno and Lloyd fighters. This is why Heihachi's costume returning doesn't really worry me in regard to Geno. It's been down to Geno, Lloyd, and Heihachi for a while now, and two additional Namco reps were always unlikely.

 

[Sigran101]

That reminds me it kinda debunks "absent costumers confirmed for fighters" theory. I mean, the remaniing slots cannot have more than six....

But I don't care about that since the start, since I believe a fighter can still coexist with his/her costume. If Geno is a fighter in the future, I would still think Nintendo can provide his costume.

You didn't actually think we were suggesting Chocobo, Gil, and two monster hunters in separate slots as playable characters did you?

 

[axel_]

Here's how I perceive the Ness eye glitch, if it is for Geno: Smash's models don't use flexes for minute facial details. There are exceptions, such as with Terry actually having proper phonemes when he does his "Hey, come on come on!" taunt. For Geno, he would definitely have bodygroups for when he does things like blinking.

As far as an actual base I think Ness fits perfectly for Geno. The proportions are close enough to work for swapping rigs and there's a good blend of physical attacks and certain specials like PK Flash could control similarly to the doll's abilities Geno Whirl.

 

[_Fun.Tendo_]

One thing that was unique with Heihachi's situation is that he's already had representation in Smash Ultimate via Pacman's taunt. If you look at all the third party Mii Costumes from 4, just about all have had some form of "promotion" or representation in Ultimate. Knuckles, Zero, Akira, and Rathalos appeared as ATs, Heihachi in Pacman's taunt, and Protoman was added to Megaman's final smash alongside X and EXE. From there that leaves Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Gil, Monster Hunter, Tails, and Jacky.

Tails, Jacky, and Monster Hunter may be accounted for by the promotions of Knuckles, Akira, and Rathalos. If so, that leaves really just Geno and Lloyd. Chocobo and Gil would theoretically return with potential Geno and Lloyd fighters. This is why Heihachi's costume returning doesn't really worry me in regard to Geno. It's been down to Geno, Lloyd, and Heihachi for a while now, and two additional Namco reps were always unlikely.

Gil is in Pac-Man's tanut, though it's been there since last game so I doubt it comes into play regarding all of this.

 

[xpnc]

The eye glitch also makes sense because Geno's eyes would be modeled into his head and not just flat ovals textured on.

I was in the process of writing a post asking if people who were more technically inclined thought this was possible. Glad others agree

 

[owjies]

Here's how I perceive the Ness eye glitch, if it is for Geno: Smash's models don't use flexes for minute facial details. There are exceptions, such as with Terry actually having proper phonemes when he does his "Hey, come on come on!" taunt. For Geno, he would definitely have bodygroups for when he does things like blinking.

As far as an actual base I think Ness fits perfectly for Geno. The proportions are close enough to work for swapping rigs and there's a good blend of physical attacks and certain specials like PK Flash could control similarly to the doll's abilities Geno Whirl.

Agreed all around, and that also reminds me that PK Starstorm would make a great base for Geno Blast as a final smash in the same way that Cloud's omni slash resembles Ike's Great Aether.

Spoiler: PK Starstorm

 

[pinshadow]

So now that the dust has settled a bit, I think it's a good idea to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. There's a certain costume I think deserves a bit more discussion than it's getting at the moment.


Just kidding, we've talked enough about him, it's actually this guy.

Yep, the crossover king Heihachi got shafted a second time, so what? Well, just the fact that it's back here at all carries some obvious but still impactful implications.

• We now know with almost 100% certainty that some returning Mii Costumes were moved from the first pass to the second. They only planned for 5 DLC characters so all the Smash 4 costumes would have had to return in those 5 characters, yet that obviously didn't happen but here is Heihachi now because they decided to make more DLC characters. I know that sounds super obvious but there are people who legitimately seemed to think that the costumes that didn't show up in Pass 1 wouldn't come back at all.
• Now that we've established this, Geno and Chocobo NOT returning with Hero looks even more suspicious. It's still the only pack released to not come with any returning costumes. For someone like Heihachi, it makes sense for him to get moved. Terry already had two returning fighting costumes, ARMS is another fighting game, Namco even helped work on ARMS, he slots into the pack nicely. Meanwhile we have the perfect slot for both Square costumes to come back and they didn't show up. The question is, where did they get moved to? Keep in mind Hero released at the end of July, before they even announced more DLC, so whoever they did get moved to has to have been one of the first characters decided. And given they still didn't show up with Min-Min, I think you get the idea.
• The fact that it's Heihachi that's returned raises some interesting eyebrows. I don't know about you guys, but I think pretty much everyone was anticipating the missing Namco costumes to return with a presumed Namco rep in Pass 2, yet here he is at the very start. If they were doing a Namco pack, wouldn't it make sense for them to hold onto him to be released alongside the character? I feel like this hurts Namco's chances quite a bit.
• "Well why hold onto the costumes at all then?" Padding for later packs I suppose, just like we saw today with Heihachi. I don't anticipate this happenning with the Square costumes because of what I said earlier but I'm less confident in the other two sets of company costumes holding as much weight in terms of characters being added.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Following the reveal of Min Min I'm more or less sticking to my guns with my predictions, only now I"m less confident in definitively saying Paper Mario or a new Pokemon as I am more a First Party rep in general

Geno: Come on, he's the guy we're all here for. Today was a huge victory for us, Spirits do NOT deconfirm and Sakurai made it a point to mention how Spirit Battles WILL be altered in the future. Plus all the date stuff and every other little thing makes me think we have this in the bag

Crash: New game aside, Crash is beloved worldwide and being a huge success in Japan during his heyday is why he was considered to be Mario and Sonic's rival. His inclusion would complete the rival trio, and if that poll that happened recently is any indication, he's a huge fan request. I feel like he got a huge shot on the arm after Banjo got in

Nintendo Rep: Speaks for itself, I feel like Nintendo wants to balance things out a bit more in this pass and that we're due for at least one more Ninty rep. Even if Geno IS Square, he's part of the Mario franchise so he could technically count as one, and that's three Ninty reps and three third parties

Nightmare: I was starting to lean towards Lloyd again, but Heihachi biting the dust today made me swing back around to the azure knight. Sakurai loves his fighting games, and if Tekken is out, and Street Fighter and KOF are in, Soul Calibur, Gulty Gear, and Mortal Kombat are the only remaining FG's that could be repped. Nightmare edges them all out purely by virtue of having already done battle with Link and basically being in on the ground floor of Nintendo crossovers

Sora: A personal favorite, and I hate the narrative that Geno and he have to be rivals, when I'm convinced they can co-exist on the roster together. Sora has more going for him than people give him credit for, but more importantly I feel like this pass will have one big "showstopper" reveal just like Snake, Cloud, Sonic, and Joker did in the past, and the best candidates are what Imran Khan said: Sora or Master Chief. Xbox's mascot and the Sora the 'impossible'

 

[xpnc]

• The fact that it's Heihachi that's returned raises some interesting eyebrows. I don't know about you guys, but I think pretty much everyone was anticipating the missing Namco costumes to return with a presumed Namco rep in Pass 2, yet here he is at the very start. If they were doing a Namco pack, wouldn't it make sense for them to hold onto him to be released alongside the character? I feel like this hurts Namco's chances quite a bit.

This in particular has got me thinking that Lloyd is likely going to be a costume alongside a sword character if he's not in the game. Which sucks because I really think he should be in and that Namco deserves to have a second character, but I'm just not feeling an intuition about him

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

It's odd that so many of you guys are feeling shakier on Lloyd when today I actually started feeling like he has a better shot. Not a lock by any means, but more confident than before.