Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Geno Boost]

Guys, this game was JUST revealed at IGN's Summer Games 2020 stream. Alex MF KIDD in Miracle World DX (coming to ALL consoles).

My child! HE IS BACK! SEGA CARES!!!
I should revive my Alex Kidd thread ;-;
Edit: wait! Another Alex Kidd thread exists!!!

 

[Enigma735]

I watched PapaGeno's latest video he just uploaded and he talked about the fact that Sheik has a new visual glitch in Ultimate. This may be interesting as most of you probably know that the Geno Spirit is possessed by Sheik. What if that glitch is occurring because Sakurai is planning on upgrading a Spirit to a playable character and is changing the Spirit Battle to have the Geno character possess the Geno Spirit? I don't think this is outlandish if you ask me. I am a firm believer that these visual glitches do mean something because characters like Mii Swordfighter, Duck Hunt, Simon\Richter and Bayonetta would work as perfect bases for Hero, Banjo, Byleth and this ARMS character, and considering Ness also has a visual glitch, and fits the same body archetype as Geno, then maybe these could be another thing in Geno's favor

 

[MattX20]

I just want to know who FP6 and FP7 are before I'm 30

 

[Griselda]

I don't know how Alex Kidd managed to crawl back out of the void, but if he brings classic Phantasy Star with him.. I dunno, I still think it's unlikely that I'm going to get Alis/Nei or any non-Sonic SEGA rep in Smash, but basically what I'm saying is that if Sakurai gives me both Geno and my own 'never-ever' pick, I'm going to have to find a way to personally send the man my money.

 

[Bremy]

So you'd rather not have them at all? A hollow victory is better than no victory if you want Min Min and end up with Springman. That's how I see it anyway, cuz you're not getting multiple ARMS characters in Smash Ult unless they come in a "pack" character of some kind. That's just the truth.

True. A hollow victory is still a victory. But the people who want twintelle or min min in, want those specific characters in and not twintelle that plays like springman. It would also do a bad job of promoting ARMS as a series because they are just saying that all the characters are the exact same, which isnt true.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

A papagenos video to tide us over for the moment:

 

[RedMachine123]

I watched PapaGeno's latest video he just uploaded and he talked about the fact that Sheik has a new visual glitch in Ultimate. This may be interesting as most of you probably know that the Geno Spirit is possessed by Sheik. What if that glitch is occurring because Sakurai is planning on upgrading a Spirit to a playable character and is changing the Spirit Battle to have the Geno character possess the Geno Spirit? I don't think this is outlandish if you ask me. I am a firm believer that these visual glitches do mean something because characters like Mii Swordfighter, Duck Hunt, Simon\Richter and Bayonetta would work as perfect bases for Hero, Banjo, Byleth and this ARMS character, and considering Ness also has a visual glitch, and fits the same body archetype as Geno, then maybe these could be another thing in Geno's favor

V
V
V

Ok, Geno crew, let me start off by saying that ultimately, this means nothing. That's my conclusion on this glitch and special thanks to @Slender for putting the big look into what we know about this glitch while peabrains like me were out playing World of Light.

This kind Twitter user posted back in May that he noticed a glitch with Sheik in World of Light... on his third playthrough.

Yet another super annoying glitch I found in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 7.0 this time w/ Sheik. Here is my video showcase! Check it out here:
*https://t.co/Kmsqkjm5EB
*
Like & subscribe for more. Feel free to share/retweet for awareness!#zelda #smashbros #smashultimate #sheik pic.twitter.com/k4y0OHW6q8

— Johto Jonny YT  (@jonny_tompkins) May 14, 2020

So, it's a totally normal, natural reaction to start to put two and two together and consider the following:
Sheik is Geno's spirit battle.
Sheik's Side B has a relatively unique function in which you can blow it up at almost any time after deploying the move, sort of like a timed hit.
Sheik is a fast and Geno is a fast.
They're using Sheik as a base for playable Geno!!!1!

Again, thanks to Slender's help, this thread turned up showing that the glitch has been known for a bit longer than Jonny Tompkins' posting about it, and it includes the reason for the glitch: item attraction ruins the move.

If you're not aware, Sheik's side B is somewhat unique in that it does not produce a traveling explosion similar to Din's Fire, but instead produces an item that explodes on semi-command, closer to something like one of the Links' bombs. However, all of those bombs are on a timer and explode regardless, or are under the complete control of the Link that summoned the bomb, where Sheik's little bomb has to be activated, like pulling the pin out of a grenade. If at any point Sheik is hit or something affects that bomb, the move essentially fizzles, leaving a little throwable item that doesn't explode. This is the way the move worked in Smash 4, as well.

So, as you can read in that GameFAQs thread, the skill "Healing Item Attraction" will move the bomb, thus disabling it. What I find very interesting is that it will function this way no matter how far you throw the bomb, maybe it's affected immediately? Who knows. But, here's a theory for why this is happening so that we don't have to wonder if Sheik is being used as the base for any given DLC character, including Geno:

Patch 7.0 applied various buffs to Sheik, and most interestingly, "The explosion can no longer be negated" in reference to the Side B. This is illustrated well in Beefy Smash Doods' video here:
https://youtu.be/cCqn1fm2S1Y?t=110
(I am leaving this as a link so you can go to the timestamp, embeds tend to break this)

Note how when Fox interrupts the explosion, he takes about 1.6% damage from the "vortex" that the bomb creates before exploding. In the "After" footage, Fox seems to take a bit more damage from the "vortex", followed by the decent damage done by the explosion itself, which suggests that maybe (I don't know for certain), in order to make it where the explosion could not be interrupted, the vortex or maybe the explosion itself was changed to no longer be a tangible explosion hitbox, but a healing field with a negative heal rate. Because of this, since the bomb is still very much an item, the "Healing Item Attraction" will attract the item which qualifies as a healing item, despite the fact that it does negative healing, hence why it only started happening after 7.0, and why it only happens in World of Light, assumedly unless you are using a spirit that attracts healing items.

Again, this is totally a theory as to why it took until 7.0 to notice this behavior, and may not be the case. I have never once looked at the code of this game.

Just in case you skipped over all this complicated "text" business and would like a conclusion: this is likely a glitch with an easy explanation and there's no proof that any character is being based on Sheik.

 

[Qeomash]

To be honest, and I apologize for this sounding like impatience, I'd rather Nintendo got off their butts and just revealed the ARMs character already. Not release it, reveal it.

Yup. I'm not buying the pass for ARMs, so the sooner they announce it and move on to #7, whomever it may be, the better.

 

[Super10ZX]

Ok, Geno crew, let me start off by saying that ultimately, this means nothing. That's my conclusion on this glitch and special thanks to @Slender for putting the big look into what we know about this glitch while peabrains like me were out playing World of Light.

This kind Twitter user posted back in May that he noticed a glitch with Sheik in World of Light... on his third playthrough.

Yet another super annoying glitch I found in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 7.0 this time w/ Sheik. Here is my video showcase! Check it out here:
*https://t.co/Kmsqkjm5EB
*
Like & subscribe for more. Feel free to share/retweet for awareness!#zelda #smashbros #smashultimate #sheik pic.twitter.com/k4y0OHW6q8

— Johto Jonny YT  (@jonny_tompkins) May 14, 2020

So, it's a totally normal, natural reaction to start to put two and two together and consider the following:
Sheik is Geno's spirit battle.
Sheik's Side B has a relatively unique function in which you can blow it up at almost any time after deploying the move, sort of like a timed hit.
Sheik is a fast and Geno is a fast.
They're using Sheik as a base for playable Geno!!!1!

Again, thanks to Slender's help, this thread turned up showing that the glitch has been known for a bit longer than Jonny Tompkins' posting about it, and it includes the reason for the glitch: item attraction ruins the move.

If you're not aware, Sheik's side B is somewhat unique in that it does not produce a traveling explosion similar to Din's Fire, but instead produces an item that explodes on semi-command, closer to something like one of the Links' bombs. However, all of those bombs are on a timer and explode regardless, or are under the complete control of the Link that summoned the bomb, where Sheik's little bomb has to be activated, like pulling the pin out of a grenade. If at any point Sheik is hit or something affects that bomb, the move essentially fizzles, leaving a little throwable item that doesn't explode. This is the way the move worked in Smash 4, as well.

So, as you can read in that GameFAQs thread, the skill "Healing Item Attraction" will move the bomb, thus disabling it. What I find very interesting is that it will function this way no matter how far you throw the bomb, maybe it's affected immediately? Who knows. But, here's a theory for why this is happening so that we don't have to wonder if Sheik is being used as the base for any given DLC character, including Geno:

Patch 7.0 applied various buffs to Sheik, and most interestingly, "The explosion can no longer be negated" in reference to the Side B. This is illustrated well in Beefy Smash Doods' video here:
https://youtu.be/cCqn1fm2S1Y?t=110
(I am leaving this as a link so you can go to the timestamp, embeds tend to break this)

Note how when Fox interrupts the explosion, he takes about 1.6% damage from the "vortex" that the bomb creates before exploding. In the "After" footage, Fox seems to take a bit more damage from the "vortex", followed by the decent damage done by the explosion itself, which suggests that maybe (I don't know for certain), in order to make it where the explosion could not be interrupted, the vortex or maybe the explosion itself was changed to no longer be a tangible explosion hitbox, but a healing field with a negative heal rate. Because of this, since the bomb is still very much an item, the "Healing Item Attraction" will attract the item which qualifies as a healing item, despite the fact that it does negative healing, hence why it only started happening after 7.0, and why it only happens in World of Light, assumedly unless you are using a spirit that attracts healing items.

Again, this is totally a theory as to why it took until 7.0 to notice this behavior, and may not be the case. I have never once looked at the code of this game.

Just in case you skipped over all this complicated "text" business and would like a conclusion: this is likely a glitch with an easy explanation and there's no proof that any character is being based on Sheik.

I just heard the idea that this Sheik glitch could possibly be caused by a skill tree upgrade, which would explain why this only happens in WOL. Have no clue what one would cause this, or if that claim is even accurate at all. But still, it’s pretty weird.

Edit: Ok I’m a fool and this was already discussed in the quoted post. My bad.

 

[Fatmanonice]

True. A hollow victory is still a victory. But the people who want twintelle or min min in, want those characters specific characters in and not twintelle that plays like springman. It would also do a bad job of promoting ARMS as a series because they are just saying that all the characters are the exact same, which isnt true.

Exactly. One of the big appeals of ARMS is that the characters are so different from each other. I mean, ****, their literal arms are made of different materials they wanted to emphasize this so much. You have springs, ribbons, noodles, bandages, hair, candy, goo, conveyor belts, literal belts for your pants, chains, telsa coils, woven bracelets, and rubber athletic bands. Every character has their own unique stage and music theme. There's so many examples of how much they wanted to stress "here's a colorful cast of super unique characters."

 

[Enigma735]

V
V
V

Ah neat. I must clarify that I don't 100% necessarily think the Sheik visual glitch means something, but it COULD be something and I thought it would be interesting to note.

 

[axel_]

You're not understanding. Let me explain it differently:

Note the different animations.

Now watch this video:

Note the different animations, stances, etc. Making Springman and Ribbongirl ALTs of one another would be very awkward because of this.

Thank you.

Exactly. One of the big appeals of ARMS is that the characters are so different from each other. I mean, ****, their literal arms are made of different materials they wanted to emphasize this so much. You have springs, ribbons, noodles, bandages, hair, candy, goo, conveyor belts, literal belts for your pants, chains, telsa coils, woven bracelets, and rubber athletic bands. Every character has their own unique stage and music theme. There's so many examples of how much they wanted to stress "here's a colorful cast of super unique characters."

THANK YOU.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

What if Shiek is being used as a base for Min Min? Aside from Min Min's arms, her body type would fit well with Shiek's I would say.

 

[7NATOR]

On the ARMS Discussion, I don't think the ARMS Characters aren't that different in function. Animation wise they are very different, but in terms of actual function, besides 1 or 2 innate abilities they have the Same control Scheme of Punch with the left, Punch with the Right, Rush attack, etc

Transition all that to Smash which has many more Attacks per attack, along with more Non-Attack animations in general is gonna require some Planning. I do think depending on how they did the ARMS Character, Something like Alts might be able to work. Either that or something more akin to Mii Fighters, where you can customize the ARMS, and the character, with each coming with their unique abilities.

 

[axel_]

I agree that it wouldn't be ideal, but I'd rather have a generic idle animation and get to play as Min Min, Ninjara, Ribbon Girl AND Springman than a hyper-accurate Springman by himself. It honestly wouldn't ruin my whole experience just because Ribbon Girl doesn't wink flirtatiously at the camera when I'm not actively fighting with her.

So you'd rather not have them at all? A hollow victory is better than no victory if you want Min Min and end up with Springman. That's how I see it anyway, cuz you're not getting multiple ARMS characters in Smash Ult unless they come in a "pack" character of some kind. That's just the truth.

True. A hollow victory is still a victory. But the people who want twintelle or min min in, want those specific characters in and not twintelle that plays like springman. It would also do a bad job of promoting ARMS as a series because they are just saying that all the characters are the exact same, which isnt true.

This is the same thing as thinking a Mii Costume is an acceptable decision for Geno. You've become the very thing you swore to destroy.

 

[Firox]

True. A hollow victory is still a victory. But the people who want twintelle or min min in, want those specific characters in and not twintelle that plays like springman. It would also do a bad job of promoting ARMS as a series because they are just saying that all the characters are the exact same, which isnt true.

I see you're point. Sakurai wouldn't be the kind of person to add a character that didn't have any semblance of their original personality. Then again, who's to say that he doesn't go above and beyond and create a Hero-like character with a unique set of cosmetic animations for each alt as long as it doesn't alter their gameplay or hurtbox?

This is the same thing as thinking a Mii Costume is an acceptable decision for Geno. You've become the very thing you swore to destroy.

This isn't even close to the same thing. Mii Costumes (especially Geno's old costume) are pathetic imitations of their source material. Their movesets as a whole are extremely generic and thus Geno's costume's moves have almost no semblance to his source material. The costume has NONE of his personality aside from a vague set of textures, a hat and a cape. On the other hand, I'm talking about a set of characters that could have a flawless aesthetic and 90% of their actual moves, physical properties, taunts, etc. I've played ARMS. Let's not pretend like each character's moveset in that game is really THAT unique. Each may have a minor gimmick and their own mannerisms, but to say that Ribbon Girl without a third jump or some cute animations is tantamount to a mii costume is just entitled as all hell. It's like calling Krool a total waste because he didn't come with a mad scientist alt. Or like saying MetaRidley is a total bust because he doesn't use the exact same attacks that he did in Metroid Prime. Sakurai takes liberties sometimes to create the best net result. I'm sure we could find something to be butt hurt about if we really wanted to but I'd rather have the most satisfying result realistically possible and a Hero situation really doesn't seem like a deal breaker to me. If it is for you, my condolences.

 

[MattX20]

I'm just hoping FP7 is Geno. At this point, it's tiring to go day by day without something new to talk about that's Smash related.

 

[StarLight42]

I think people really overestimate how the Arms characters absolutely need to be unique and have their own mechanics. They don’t. That’s not the point of the character. The point is the ARMS.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm just hoping FP7 is Geno. At this point, it's tiring to go day by day without something new to talk about that's Smash related.

Exactly! Just give us Geno already Nintendo so we can get on with our lives.

 

[Trevenant]

The ARMS character is going to mainly represent the ARMS gameplay no matter what. They said in the direct that their main gimmick will be there stretchy ARMS.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Exactly. One of the big appeals of ARMS is that the characters are so different from each other. I mean, ****, their literal arms are made of different materials they wanted to emphasize this so much. You have springs, ribbons, noodles, bandages, hair, candy, goo, conveyor belts, literal belts for your pants, chains, telsa coils, woven bracelets, and rubber athletic bands. Every character has their own unique stage and music theme. There's so many examples of how much they wanted to stress "here's a colorful cast of super unique characters."

I don't want to be that guy but those are all visual things. Those things still don't change the fact that they all have generally the same basic mechanic of "shoot fists half a ring away." I'm not getting into this because I still haven't settled on which would be best but the unique music, stages, and visual appearance of each arm designs don't change gameplay in the slightest so although the argument of "they have different abilities specific to the character" only sort of works, the differences in idles, base gameplay, stage, and music don't affect them in a major way. This is the same game that really half-***ed Sonic, so if they just wanted them as alts and make them a composite character, I think no one's really going to bat an eye about it unless you just need the character to be an exact carbon copy of the original from the game.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What if Shiek is being used as a base for Min Min? Aside from Min Min's arms, her body type would fit well with Shiek's I would say.

Well, to dig up old graves, Bayonetta had significant glitches found in February and my theorycraft back then was that 6 could potentially have aerial auto kick combos because that's the only trait aside from Bats Within that's truly unique to Bayonetta (for all incense and scorpions, Witch Time is still a counter move). 4 of 5 Sheik's aerial moves are kicks and she also has bouncing fish, which is kind of similar to some of Min Min's attacks.

 

[Bremy]

I think people really overestimate how the Arms characters absolutely need to be unique and have their own mechanics. They don’t. That’s not the point of the character. The point is the ARMS.

You arent wrong there. The main point of ARMS are the Arms themselves. But each character is different. Different attributes, abilities, and movement. And sakurai has proven time and time again that those levels of detail is enough for a character to be in as their own. It would just be weird if they were the same. It's not like they made edelgard, Dimitri, and claude alts of byleth just to get those characters in.

 

[PatPrime]

To my knowledge, idle animations and other animations that don't involve attacking are usually different for echos and alts like with Byleth but attack animations are the same (Though not all of them follow this exactly, like Dark Samus or Dr. Mario). So while I see why people think a Hero situation wouldn't exactly work, I don't think it can't be done. Sakurai and his team aren't always on point with details like with certain FInal Smashes and other things.

 

[Trevenant]

Banjo and Kazooie don't really have anything in common with Duck Hunt so I don't quite get the speculation. Yeah they are both animal and bird duos but that's an actual mechanic that would warrant them being used as a base. It's hard to explain.

Ridley being used as a base, while unconfirmed, makes much more sense. Their idle is a lot more similar as is the up air and down smash. There are other similarities but these are off the top of my head.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah neat. I must clarify that I don't 100% necessarily think the Sheik visual glitch means something, but it COULD be something and I thought it would be interesting to note.

What needs to especially be clarified is that this is not a "visual glitch"... and not even a glitch. The game is likely working exactly as programmed, but in an unintended way. So, useless as it is, this is an exploit.

Sheik's side B grenade does not simply fail to visualize the explosion - it does not happen. This is because the bomb is being moved before it is detonated. This is not akin to the Bayonetta graphics glitch or the vanishing Ness eyes - it is a game mechanic working against another game mechanic.

I'm seeing a lot of discussion about this as if it's relevant, and believe me, as the guy who got a "what" analyzing Jon Gamexplain's Clubhouse Games tweet, I know when something isn't relevant. The behavior we're noticing has an explanation that is not tied to any potential characters, and is not tied to any spirits. I certainly hope that's what this community takes away from this, but in the words of the illustrious prophets of olde: "you do you".

 

[Firox]

I think people really overestimate how the Arms characters absolutely need to be unique and have their own mechanics. They don’t. That’s not the point of the character. The point is the ARMS.

THIS x1000.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Another thing worth mentioning is that the ARMS characters are fighting game characters and Sakurai has mapped those out to the most careful degree of any type of character:

People have talked about composite characters like Hero and Ness but, that's the thing, they're both RPG characters and Ness didn't even have attack animations until Smash.

 

[Bremy]

THIS x1000.

Why are there different characters in the game then? If they can just be stripped of their own mechanics so easily, then there isnt a point to have 15 characters in the game.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

If we're going to talk about accuracy with characters, I will 100% use Bowser Jr. Almost all of his moveset is the Clown Car, not him. He's mostly there because he's a popular Mario character but they could've easily put literally ANY enemy in that car. Bowser Jr. only affects two things in gameplay: neutral aerial after his recovery and his final smash. Outside of that, everything is Clown Car. He doesn't spit fireballs, doesn't use his brush outside of his FS, doesn't do a shell spin or throw out Koopa Shells or Bob-Ombs. You could've put a Mecha Koopa in it and it wouldn't have changed anything except those two things. The Clown Car should've been just a recovery and maybe a side special but that's it. Clearly, having a fun and unique character sometimes comes at the cost of butchering anything admirable that character had already. That's 100% why the Koopalings are there, because you could put anyone in that Clown Car.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Since its looking very likely that a promotion will happen very soon, I might as well say this

I used to be a massive detractor of Geno and other Spirits/ATs in general on this thread and other sites. And while I still would prefer other picks, every character that I used to rag on all of the time doesn’t seem completely limited now that a Spirit is nearly guaranteed for FP6.

So yeah, sorry for the constant pessimism that I used to bring to this thread all of the time (I used to be known as nessdeltarune during this period). I fully accept that I likely was 100% wrong about ATs and Spirits. In hindsight, no matter how I felt, its still only a few lines of code that can be changed at anytime if Nintendo feels like it, lol.

I’m not saying its a lock, but I no longer see Geno and other Spirits as a complete impossibility moving forward.

Hey man welcome back. It takes real stones to admit you may have been wrong about something. You certainly haven't been proven wrong yet as it's still a wait and see situation for sure. I never really took issue with you or your thoughts. Everyone has different opinions and reasons for thinking what they think.

Whoa, whoa, cool your boots there, chief. Doesn't Byleth have different idle animations between male and female? Who says they'd all have to share idle animations? They could even have unique victory animations. We can't really assume how far (or un-far) Sakurai will go to make something work. There's always the possibility that he sets an entirely new precedent as well.

These are my thoughts as well. It's the same situation spirits are in really. Like just because a spirit hasn't been made playable yet doesn't mean they can't. We never even thought we would get alts likes Hero's for a DLC character. So just because alts haven't had some differences (actually they have ala Byleth) doesn't mean they can't be made to. Smash does what it wants plain and simple. It actually would make sense to do this for a DLC character so you can pack as much extra in as possible without actually creating full echoes. Basically just because something hasn't happened YET doesn't mean it can't. I still believe it will just be Spring Man with Ribbon Girl alt but I'm not going to sit here pretending like there couldn't be more alts or alts that are basically echoes.

So you'd rather not have them at all? A hollow victory is better than no victory if you want Min Min and end up with Springman. That's how I see it anyway, cuz you're not getting multiple ARMS characters in Smash Ult unless they come in a "pack" character of some kind. That's just the truth.

EXACTLY! Like seriously you can either have more at a small cost or less at the cost of having...less. Why wouldn't you take getting more at a small cost?

I can totally understand observing things from the perspective of what would Sakurai think? Because I can see, based on how echoes and alts have worked thus far, that Sakurai tends to not have alts who are as different as ARMS character are. But people saying it would ruin their experience with the characters if it was multiple in one with same animations is frankly beyond ridiculous imo. If you're playing the game you're really not even going to notice those issues if they're handled properly which they would be because Sakurai is far more anal than most of us are. Anything that you slow down enough to actually notice will probably just make for great memes honestly. I'm stoked to have Dark Samus in the game at all and couldn't care less that it's moveset makes no sense whatsoever. But I guess not everyone feels the same. At least you and I are on the same page Firox.

On the ARMS Discussion, I don't think the ARMS Characters aren't that different in function. Animation wise they are very different, but in terms of actual function, besides 1 or 2 innate abilities they have the Same control Scheme of Punch with the left, Punch with the Right, Rush attack, etc

Transition all that to Smash which has many more Attacks per attack, along with more Non-Attack animations in general is gonna require some Planning. I do think depending on how they did the ARMS Character, Something like Alts might be able to work. Either that or something more akin to Mii Fighters, where you can customize the ARMS, and the character, with each coming with their unique abilities.

Agreed. I do like the Mii fighter concept as well. I really just think the characters in ARMS are all very interesting and cool and unique but I think I must've been playing a different game than other people who suggest they function significantly different or play significantly differently. Granted their signature abilities do make a big difference in ARMS where there aren't any other notable gameplay differences, but in Smash it's not the same case. Those differences could be cosmetic and unique to each alt in Smash (Ninjara's dodges, Ribbon Girls air dodges, Min Min's dragon arm, etc can all just be visually different to give them a little personality and slight differences to idle animations and obviously unique victory animations or group shot). And that's not even accounting for the possible unprecedented factors. It's not the same as Geno being playable or Mii costume but honestly if it's between Geno being a Mii or no Geno at all then yes I absolutely will take Geno Mii over nothing everytime. Something is better than nothing and somethings are better than one thing. (Sorry I was responding to a few different ideas here and not just what I quoted).

I see you're point. Sakurai wouldn't be the kind of person to add a character that didn't have any semblance of their original personality. Then again, who's to say that he doesn't go above and beyond and create a Hero-like character with a unique set of cosmetic animations for each alt as long as it doesn't alter their gameplay or hurtbox?

This isn't even close to the same thing. Mii Costumes (especially Geno's old costume) are pathetic imitations of their source material. Their movesets as a whole are extremely generic and thus Geno's costume's moves have almost no semblance to his source material. The costume has NONE of his personality aside from a vague set of textures, a hat and a cape. On the other hand, I'm talking about a set of characters that could have a flawless aesthetic and 90% of their actual moves, physical properties, taunts, etc. I've played ARMS. Let's not pretend like each character's moveset in that game is really THAT unique. Each may have a minor gimmick and their own mannerisms, but to say that Ribbon Girl without a third jump or some cute animations is tantamount to a mii costume is just entitled as all hell. It's like calling Krool a total waste because he didn't come with a mad scientist alt. Or like saying MetaRidley is a total bust because he doesn't use the exact same attacks that he did in Metroid Prime. Sakurai takes liberties sometimes to create the best net result. I'm sure we could find something to be butt hurt about if we really wanted to but I'd rather have the most satisfying result realistically possible and a Hero situation really doesn't seem like a deal breaker to me. If it is for you, my condolences.

Again...exactly!

 

[QQS]

Can’t wait for the ARMS video and see which one they choose to become playable.
Can’t wait to see what happens with the Fan Rules.
Can’t wait to see the CGI of #77.

Next week is probably the week, just a little more patience.

God listen to us and Sakurai I know you have fulfilled ours dreams (as always) and also your desire of having Geno playable.

Also, tomorrow 11 June marks one year since this:

GENO BEAMS IN!

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

What if Shiek is being used as a base for Min Min? Aside from Min Min's arms, her body type would fit well with Shiek's I would say.

I don't think body type has anything to do with it, remember that Joker's base was Piranha Plant.

 

[Enigma735]

What needs to especially be clarified is that this is not a "visual glitch"... and not even a glitch. The game is likely working exactly as programmed, but in an unintended way. So, useless as it is, this is an exploit.

Sheik's side B grenade does not simply fail to visualize the explosion - it does not happen. This is because the bomb is being moved before it is detonated. This is not akin to the Bayonetta graphics glitch or the vanishing Ness eyes - it is a game mechanic working against another game mechanic.

I'm seeing a lot of discussion about this as if it's relevant, and believe me, as the guy who got a "what" analyzing Jon Gamexplain's Clubhouse Games tweet, I know when something isn't relevant. The behavior we're noticing has an explanation that is not tied to any potential characters, and is not tied to any spirits. I certainly hope that's what this community takes away from this, but in the words of the illustrious prophets of olde: "you do you".

Ah oh well. I still think Geno is extremely likely regardless so even if this Sheik exploit means nothing, I am still 99% confident Geno is coming.

Also, tomorrow 11 June marks one year since this:

View attachment 274419

GENO BEAMS IN!

I can't believe its been almost one year since the bear and bird finally returned to a Nintendo system again. It almost feels like yesterday since I was screaming to the top of my lungs and crying tears of joy over their inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

Why are there different characters in the game then? If they can just be stripped of their own mechanics so easily, then there isnt a point to have 15 characters in the game.

If you want someone to be cynical about it? Because Nintendo set out to make a fighting game out of this IP and therefore they had to differentiate the characters and give some meaning to playing someone different. The ARMS aren't everything that makes a given character who they are, but ultimately, ARMS has scrawny dudes and beefy dudes, a slime dude, a girl in a robot, and a robot cop with a robot dog. Ultimately, there's 5 characters in ARMS. But that's ok, because you can give the members of those archetypes special abilities to set them apart and make them worth playing, i.e. you make brand new characters out of an established template.

This is the same thing Smash does. This is the same thing every fighting game does. Smash has the liberty, however, of importing characters as their archetype and not as them. If Smash chooses to have Spring Man, it's chosing to have scrawny dudes and give or take 8 characters fit that archetype.

Ah oh well. I still think Geno is extremely likely regardless so even if this Sheik exploit means nothing, I am still 99% confident Geno is coming.

I'm not downplaying Geno's chances by debunking this "glitch", but I would rather see this community, which I consider extremely intelligent, not make a mountain out of an unrelated molehill. It's good to debate things that are potentially relevant, but when something becomes markedly irrelevant, it's best to ignore it.

 

[goodspeed87]

It should be Min Min b/c we’re sorely lacking on female DLC fighters and honestly she’s far more rad than Spring Man or Ribbon Girl.

 

[Firox]

Why are there different characters in the game then? If they can just be stripped of their own mechanics so easily, then there isnt a point to have 15 characters in the game.

The difference here is that we aren't talking about ARMS itself. We're talking about a SMASH IMPLEMENTATION of ARMS. What would an ARMS character bring to Smash bros that no other character does? The answer? STRETCHY ARMS, first and foremost. The next question is, which character would Sakurai want to add that represents that game the best. At face value, most would say Springman, however, he not only already exists as an AT, but isn't even among the most popular with the fans. You've got picks like Min Min, Twintelle and Ninjara that people would prefer more, so Sakurai is faced with a choice: Go with the slightly more bland, less popular, already represented Springman all by himself for no other reason than the fact that he's the poster boy, or appeal to fan demand at the cost of deviating from the usual main character rep. Since SM, Ribbon girl, Min Min and Ninjara all have about the same height and body type, why not kill four birds with one stone? As long as he could do the four of them justice with at least some distinctiveness between them, I see it as nothing but a net win.

 

[Polarthief]

It should be Min Min b/c we’re sorely lacking on female DLC fighters and honestly she’s far more rad than Spring Man or Ribbon Girl.

By that logic, why not Twintelle since she's not only female, but also black, and we have a grand total of 0 black fighters since neither Ganondorf nor Mr. G&W count. Just saying, if you're gonna talk about the gender thing, might as well talk about the racial one too.

(plus, she's honestly more rad than Min Min as well, at least I personally think so, considering I mained her)

 

[Bremy]

The difference here is that we aren't talking about ARMS itself. We're talking about a SMASH IMPLEMENTATION of ARMS. What would an ARMS character bring to Smash bros that no other character does? The answer? STRETCHY ARMS, first and foremost. The next question is, which character would Sakurai want to add that represents that game the best. At face value, most would say Springman, however, he not only already exists as an AT, but isn't even among the most popular with the fans. You've got picks like Min Min, Twintelle and Ninjara that people would prefer more, so Sakurai is faced with a choice: Go with the slightly more bland, less popular, already represented Springman all by himself for no other reason than the fact that he's the poster boy, or appeal to fan demand at the cost of deviating from the usual main character rep. Since SM, Ribbon girl, Min Min and Ninjara all have about the same height and body type, why not kill four birds with one stone? As long as he could do the four of them justice with at least some distinctiveness between them, I see it as nothing but a net win.

I understand that argument. I just don't think Sakurai would do that. I'm probably wrong and i'm okay in admitting if i am. We are talking about a game where there are four fire emblem characters with the same moveset, outside of one up b, and a ton of "clone" characters and ARMS is the one that gets relegated to having every character be alts? For what? just to make the most people happy that their character is in? I just think all these characters can stand on their own, without being bundled together like a consolation prize. (Though i do think that Min Min has the best shot here)

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Man, we really need news. We're at each other's throats!