Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Paraspikey]

Fatmanonice

What is Verge talking about?

 

[Griselda]

...So, I just woke up from dreaming that I went to Super Nintendo World, and they had a Geno plush in the gift shop - as well as this weird seasonal variant where he was purple with yellow eyes, and holding onto a glittery pumpkin. I also died at the end of the dream (again), but that part's not important.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

as well as this weird seasonal variant where he was purple with yellow eyes, and holding onto a glittery pumpkin. I also died at the end of the dream (again), but that part's not important.

Time to get a custom plush artist to make this!

 

[Firox]

The Geno fanbase breaking into Doug Bowser's house if Geno gets costumed:

View attachment 274401

SO LONG, MR. BOWSER!! (throws into spike bombs)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice

What is Verge talking about?

No clue given how vague it is. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really have any "exclusives" outside of my own speculation and theorycrafting.

 

[cosmicB]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player. The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

What about Dark Samus? The canon fighting styles of her and Samus are more different than any ARMs character compared to each other, and they're about the same level of "blank slate" as the ARMs characters are.

 

[Franco Geno]

2020 in a nutshell: as if Smash news being delayed for now almost 3 months didn't suck enough, here's a global pandemic, depression, the Amazon and Australia literally being on fire, everything being cancelled, and major civil unrest around the world. Give it a few days and the nukes will probably start flying too.

2020's gonna be a hell of a year to study for the future generations

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So I had a dream awhile back about a Dixie Kong Smash reveal trailer and when I was asleep dreaming this I thought it was real oh the irony. In my dream, the trailer starts off with DK, Diddy, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie all chilling out in DK's house only to be startled by the roof collapsing. Turns out Dixie Kong is the one that crashes the roof. Camera turns to show her face and it immediately cuts to the gameplay without showning her tagline. I see Dixie using her famous Helicopter Spin flying around the Kongo Jungle stage than I see Dixie using her hair for her other attacks like in the classic DKC games. One of the characters she attacks in the gameplay montage is Geno, freaking Geno. Dear lord is this dream a sign from God to me that we're getting Dixie Kong in Smash as well as Geno? Geno I already had great faith in happening but seeing Geno in that dream along with Dixie Kong makes me have greater hope for Dixie to get into Ultimate. Hopefully, this becomes a reality.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What about Dark Samus? The canon fighting styles of her and Samus are more different than any ARMs character compared to each other, and they're about the same level of "blank slate" as the ARMs characters are.

Same case as Daisy, different animations. Yes, canon Dark Samus fights a lot differently but they still bothered to give it different animations than Samus. That's a core difference. Let me further highlight what I'm getting at:

Start at about 00:50 and keep watching. Even on the character select screen, they have different idle stances and animations. Look at their arms, hands, and legs and their positions. They don't even "bounce" at the same tempos.

 

[YsDisciple]

Guys, this game was JUST revealed at IGN's Summer Games 2020 stream. Alex MF KIDD in Miracle World DX (coming to ALL consoles).

 

[cosmicB]

Same case as Daisy, different animations. Yes, canon Dark Samus fights a lot differently but they still bothered to give it different animations than Samus. That's a core difference. Let me further highlight what I'm getting at:

Start at about 00:50 and keep watching. Even on the character select screen, they have different idle stances and animations. Look at their arms, hands, and legs and their positions. They don't even "bounce" at the same tempos.

I'm.... genuinely not sure what you're getting at here. You say the different animations are an indicator of different personalities, but doesn't that just heighten the theory of a possible Hero situation? I can't imagine a select screen is going to prevent Sakurai from making concessions on the potential for interchangeable characters when there is literally nothing he could do with the ARMs rep on that front that would be more radical than what he did with Samus and Dark Samus, not even putting in the entire roster in a single character box.

 

[MisterMike]

Guys, this game was JUST revealed at IGN's Summer Games 2020 stream. Alex MF KIDD in Miracle World DX (coming to ALL consoles).

Holy ****! Never thought I'd see the day when we'd get a new Alex Kidd game! That's awesome!

 

[Terry Badguy]

Guys, this game was JUST revealed at IGN's Summer Games 2020 stream. Alex MF KIDD in Miracle World DX (coming to ALL consoles).

Yep, saw that, amazing

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm.... genuinely not sure what you're getting at here. You say the different animations are an indicator of different personalities, but doesn't that just heighten the theory of a possible Hero situation? I can't imagine a select screen is going to prevent Sakurai from making concessions on the potential for interchangeable characters when there is literally nothing he could do with the ARMs rep on that front that would be more radical than what he did with Samus and Dark Samus, not even putting in the entire roster in a single character box.

You're not understanding. Let me explain it differently:

Note the different animations.

Now watch this video:

Note the different animations, stances, etc. Making Springman and Ribbongirl ALTs of one another would be very awkward because of this.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You're not understanding. Let me explain it differently:

Note the different animations.

Now watch this video:

Note the different animations, stances, etc. Making Springman and Ribbongirl ALTs of one another would be very awkward because of this.

If that's the case than I hope our Arms rep is Min Min if we are just getting one character.

 

[Fatmanonice]

To explain my point even further: think about Lucina and Dark Pit. One is a literal clone of Pit but still has different taunts and victory screens. It wouldn't really make sense for multiple ARMS characters to share the same taunts or victory screens:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only situation where a franchise is added with an echo at the same time is Castlevania(and that was due to wanting two protagonists). And Richter, unlike Daisy, has a lot of animation differences anyway. Quite a few. The problem with Daisy is she's the worst example when most of her animations aren't massively changed up enough. She could actually work as an alt. Fan demand was the only thing going for her, and ARMS doesn't have that situation since it doesn't have a character yet.

We really don't have a situation much like ARMS either, though there's a pretty strong chance if it's one character(most likely Spring Man), he'll be using ARMS and various moves from other characters anyway to help represent the franchise. Alts wouldn't even matter, since a Ness case is pretty likely either way.

 

[Firox]

You're not understanding. Let me explain it differently:

Note the different animations.

Now watch this video:

Note the different animations, stances, etc. Making Springman and Ribbongirl ALTs of one another would be very awkward because of this.

I, for one, see the point you're trying to make. It's understandable, but rides heavily on the assumption that Sakurai is going to care that deeply about minute differences in idle animations/stances when he could just as easily give them the same "boxing stance" with the typical gloves up, rocking on their toes stance (think Fox/Little Mac's mini-hop kind of idle animation). He could easily go either way, but I think the larger question is which option he'll think better represents ARMS. Granted, the generic stance wouldn't capture individual personality as well but the "Hero treatment" would allow for more popular options to be playable as opposed to the singular pick which could be relatively bland if we end up with Springman by himself. In the words of Watto from Star Wars episode 1 (the grungy junk dealer on Tatooine), "We'll let fate decide..."

 

[JayZoob]

To explain my point even further: think about Lucina and Dark Pit. One is a literal clone of Pit but still has different taunts and victory screens. It wouldn't really make sense for multiple ARMS characters to share the same taunts or victory screens:

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Male and Female Byleth have different idle stances/taunts/victory poses even though they are just costumes? I would prefer just one single character, but I could see a situation in which it is a 4 in 1 character yet even though they are Alts they still have these details that make them unique

 

[Deleted member]

Mark my words people.

If we live in a world where my boy Alex Kidd has returned, then sooner or later Geno will too.

I'm just going all in with It.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

A legit leak from a credible leaker would be great right now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Male and Female Byleth have different idle stances/taunts/victory poses even though they are just costumes?

There is only one taunt that is slightly different and the idle animation differs only slightly in that Female Byleth holds her sword at a more downward angle. The victory poses are the exact same.

And Richter, unlike Daisy, has a lot of animation differences anyway.

I’m pretty sure the only animation differences
has are his taunts. in contrast has different idle animations and run animation in addition to her taunts.

 

[JayZoob]

There is only one taunt that is slightly different and the idle animation differs only slightly in that Female Byleth holds her sword at a more downward angle. The victory poses are the exact same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Y_0snVhEU

Looking at them they have one that is exactly the same and the other 2 are different.

 

[Sigran101]

I, for one, see the point you're trying to make. It's understandable, but rides heavily on the assumption that Sakurai is going to care that deeply about minute differences in idle animations/stances when he could just as easily give them the same "boxing stance" with the typical gloves up, rocking on their toes stance (think Fox/Little Mac's mini-hop kind of idle animation). He could easily go either way, but I think the larger question is which option he'll think better represents ARMS. Granted, the generic stance wouldn't capture individual personality as well but the "Hero treatment" would allow for more popular options to be playable as opposed to the singular pick which could be relatively bland if we end up with Springman by himself. In the words of Watto from Star Wars episode 1 (the grungy junk dealer on Tatooine), "We'll let fate decide..."

Oh gosh I hope he wouldn't do that. That would look so wrong on everyone but Springman.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

There is only one taunt that is slightly different and the idle animation differs only slightly in that Female Byleth holds her sword at a more downward angle. The victory poses are the exact same.

While the differences aren't major, there ARE differences in the victory animations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Y_0snVhEU

EDIT: too slow

 

[Fatmanonice]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Male and Female Byleth have different idle stances/taunts/victory poses even though they are just costumes? I would prefer just one single character, but I could see a situation in which it is a 4 in 1 character yet even though they are Alts they still have these details that make them unique

But, that's the point, the ARMS characters don't just have slight differences between each other. Ribbongirl and Springman aren't gender swaps of each other: they move different, they have different special abilities, different victory screens, different stances and crouches, etc.

 

[cosmicB]

You're not understanding. Let me explain it differently:

Note the different animations.

Now watch this video:

Note the different animations, stances, etc. Making Springman and Ribbongirl ALTs of one another would be very awkward because of this.

I get what you're saying on animations. What I'm saying is that animations DON'T matter. Your argument is based around what's already in Smash with Samus and Dark Samus while mine is the fact the very idea of Dark Samus being an echo of Samus is asinine in canon, which your arguing somehow matters for ARMs when it didn't for Metroid.

Waluigi being an echo of Ryu makes more sense than Dark Samus being an echo of Samus. Making all 15 ARMs fighters fight identically in Smash is STILL less absurd than making Dark Samus and Samus fight identically. That animations would somehow be a roadblock for Sakurai to apply artistic license here when he's done it a million times before and more pronounced than anything that could come out of a multi-ARMs rep is imo nonsense.

 

[Qeomash]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if, rather than a Hero or Koopa Kid style multi-charcter in one slot, we might get a fighter and it's echo, similar to the Belmonts.

I just think it makes more sense that they would represent ARMs with more than just one character, either as alts or echos.

 

[Super10ZX]

I still think getting Spring Man with Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara as alts would be the best case scenario for the ARMS character as much as people may disagree with me. I definitely understand where people are coming from with the different animations, though I don’t think it would be much of an issue. Each character definitely needs tweaks from each other, but I do think it can be pulled off as alts (they’ve definitely had enough time, it’s more so if Sakurai would find it appropriate or not).

When it comes to different abilities, they could just do a Ness and as long as an ability fits every character, they can just be given to them. And if I remember every character could use every arm, so arms themselves aren’t really an issue, just special abilities.

Different victory screens. Some alts already have different victory screens, so that’s not much of an issue.

(Besides, I still think Alph is weird as an Olimar alt, yet he was made one no problem with his lifeless glare.)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I get what you're saying on animations. What I'm saying is that animations DON'T matter. Your argument is based around what's already in Smash with Samus and Dark Samus while mine is the fact the very idea of Dark Samus being an echo of Samus is asinine in canon, which your arguing somehow matters for ARMs when it didn't for Metroid.

Waluigi being an echo of Ryu makes more sense than Dark Samus being an echo of Samus. Making all 15 ARMs fighters fight identically in Smash is STILL less absurd than making Dark Samus and Samus fight identically. That animations would somehow be a roadblock for Sakurai to apply artistic license here when he's done it a million times before is imo nonsense.

But here's the thing...

-Dark Samus is still a totally different character slot.

-Dark Samus still has different animations than Samus, including taunts and victory screens.

What people are proposing for ARMS ALTS is the same principle that has only been applied to echoes at this point. Again, if they thought there were enough differences between Pit and Dark Pit to make them totally seperate, why would they cram four characters of different heights, body proportions, idle animations, and even fighting styles into one character? This is further supported by how characters like Dark Link and Dark Metaknight are simple ALTs because Dark Pit is more than just a mirror of Pit and Dark Samus is basically the Metroid Prime in a "human" form.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We're getting 6 characters as hard stated by Sakurai. An Echo goes against that. A Ness situation is the most logical one, taking small and easy transferable differences(let's not pretend Min Min's ability to kick is hard for others to do), and using a bunch of unique ARMS that are actually easy to use among the cast. As they do anyway. Anybody can use the Dragon ARM, for instance. It's not Min Min's specifically to only use. That's just the design of the game. It doesn't do much to emphasize the uniqueness of the characters, and very few actually stand out with abilities that aren't easy for others to do. Not even teleporting, Ninjara's core ability, is only doable by him. Dr. Coyle can do that too. Is it hard to believe another ARMS character could do more than 2 jumps? No. A comeback mechanic? Everybody has Rage and that's effectively how Lucario works. Obviously some abilities won't work on others, but a ton of them are easy to mix and match without any issues.

Alts are definitely harder to do than a Ness situation, but not terribly difficult. Even then, I'd more expect Spring Man with a Springtron alt(and Springtron is as different as Dark Samus is to Samus within canon. Dark Samus is immensely unique, a far cry from Spring Man and Ribbon Girl's differences, to note). I wouldn't put any stock into an Echo idea at this point. Alts I wouldn't call likely either, but it still has a better chance than an Echo with Sakurai's statements in mind.

Same with Bonus characters. They're vastly unlikely. 6 and that's it is the most logical thing to take from what he said. When more credible leakers say something, it'd be worth taking the idea seriously. But nobody has said anything worth believing.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Personally I think the ARMS characters being alts would be weird. Min Min and the others using Spring Man’s personality would be very odd, unless they wanna say “they’re trying to be like him” or something I guess, idk.

But I won’t put it past them, I guess; Alph and Olimar have their own personalities, and Alph could’ve been an echo or semi-clone with Rock Pikmin, yet Alph is just half of Olimar’s alts and neither of them have taunts based on movements from their games (though I guess the taunts still make sense for Olimar?), they don’t have their voices or anything, and Alph doesn’t even blink unless attacked and it’s weird.

 

[Firox]

Oh gosh I hope he wouldn't do that. That would look so wrong on everyone but Springman.

I agree that it wouldn't be ideal, but I'd rather have a generic idle animation and get to play as Min Min, Ninjara, Ribbon Girl AND Springman than a hyper-accurate Springman by himself. It honestly wouldn't ruin my whole experience just because Ribbon Girl doesn't wink flirtatiously at the camera when I'm not actively fighting with her.

 

[Bremy]

Having four ARMS characters being alts like hero is a hollow victory to those who want those characters in. Yeah the character you want is in smash, but they lost the uniqueness from the game in the process. Animations and abilities would just be universal, which is not how ARMS or any fighting game is. It would be like if when Ryu got in, he had Chun li, guile, and dalsim alts.

 

[pinshadow]

Guys, this game was JUST revealed at IGN's Summer Games 2020 stream. Alex MF KIDD in Miracle World DX (coming to ALL consoles).

For as much as I get on Sega's ass for various things they've been getting a lot better at ACTUALLY USING THEIR IP's, or atleast letting someone else do stuff with it.

• Sonic Mania in general
• Shenmue 3 was indeed a Shenmue game
• Panzer Dragoon was more mixed but they apparently made double the budget in like 2 weeks on Switch and they already confirmed they are doing 2, just praying they do Saga so you can play it without spending 700 dollars
• Streets of Rage 4 was great
• Sakura Wars is good apparently
• Banana Blitz... exists.

I mean, these aren't the Sega franchises I personally really care for (Gunstar Heroes gets rereleased on everything now so I'm cool, but for the love of god why is Skies of Arcadia pretty much the ONLY DREAMCAST GAME THEY NEVER PORTED TO MODERN PLATFORMS, AND THE GAMECUBE VERSION HAS A COMPLETELY BUTCHERED SOUNDTRACK SEGA PLS, STOP MILKING JET SET RADIO FOR MERCH AND MAKE A NEW GAME ATLEAST LET FUTURE ESCAPE OG XBOX HELL PLEASE SEGA WHYYYYYYYYYYY) but it's still good it see.

 

[RedMachine123]

But here's the thing...

-Dark Samus is still a totally different character slot.

-Dark Samus still has different animations than Samus, including taunts and victory screens.

What people are proposing for ARMS ALTS is the same principle that has only been applied to echoes at this point. Again, if they thought there were enough differences between Pit and Dark Pit to make them totally seperate, why would they cram four characters of different heights, body proportions, idle animations, and even fighting styles into one character? This is further supported by how characters like Dark Link and Dark Metaknight are simple ALTs because Dark Pit is more than just a mirror of Pit and Dark Samus is basically the Metroid Prime in a "human" form.

First off I want to say that although Dark Meta Knight literally is a mirror copy from Meta Knight, he has enough unique features that differentiate him from Meta Knight as is showed with his moveset in Kirby Super Star Allies.

But even if you disagree with that, that doesn't explain why Galacta Knight is also an alt. because Meta Knight and Galacta Knight are nothing alike.

 

[Firox]

Having four ARMS characters being alts like hero is a hollow victory to those who want those characters in. Yeah the character you want is in smash, but they lost the uniqueness from the game in the process. Animations and abilities would just be universal, which is not how ARMS or any fighting game is. It would be like if when Ryu got in, he had Chun li, guile, and dalsim alts.

So you'd rather not have them at all? A hollow victory is better than no victory if you want Min Min and end up with Springman. That's how I see it anyway, cuz you're not getting multiple ARMS characters in Smash Ult unless they come in a "pack" character of some kind. That's just the truth.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Personally I think the ARMS characters being alts would be weird. Min Min and the others using Spring Man’s personality would be very odd, unless they wanna say “they’re trying to be like him” or something I guess, idk.

But I won’t put it past them, I guess; Alph and Olimar have their own personalities, and Alph could’ve been an echo or semi-clone with Rock Pikmin, yet Alph is just half of Olimar’s alts and neither of them have taunts based on movements from their games (though I guess the taunts still make sense for Olimar?), they don’t have their voices or anything, and Alph doesn’t even blink unless attacked and it’s weird.

You can blame the Pikmin for that one. They're a major part of the focus, as they're called Pikmin & [Captain] in Japan.

Though in a twist, the Rock Pikmin were specifically planned for Olimar, not Alph. So it's most likely for Sakurai, he wants new Pikmin(the core gameplay focus) to justify a split. Them lacking personality does suck, though. Not that you need 'em separated for that. It'd be easy to give them proper voices and barely different animations without a split. As well as new victory screens. They could even recolor the ship(so it works identically as a Final Smash) to make it clear it's Alph's instead. It's not perfect, but they can certainly make Alph better as an alt then he is right now.

I don't disagree it'd be weird, but I also don't see much reason for them to even have an Echo situation anyway. Alt situation isn't highly likely either. That's why I note a Ness situation, which is the most likely one, and considering they'd be using ARMS beyond their own personal ones, it's fairly obvious at this point it'll happen to some degree.

 

[Fatmanonice]

A Ness situation is one thing but at the end of the day, it's still Ness. Ness is a mash up of Ness, Paula, and Poo and this largely works because Earthbound doesn't have attack animations and, well, they're all psychic anyways so it's not a huge stretch. It should also be noted that these are Ness's special moves too. Ness still uses his bat and yoyo and his attacks are primarily just generic punches and kicks with psychic oomph. That's not how it is for the ARMS characters. All the characters even have a signature grab and throw:

Yes, you could theoretically cram several ARMS characters together but the end result would still more than likely be one character instead of one character with multiple ALTs.

 

[Vector Victor]

To be honest, and I apologize for this sounding like impatience, I'd rather Nintendo got off their butts and just revealed the ARMs character already. Not release it, reveal it.