Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Sigran101]

T'was a ****post...


Sakurai justified Daisy being "orange Peach" since Melee, so that ain't gonna fly with me. She made it in as a Peach echo despite having the potential for Party/Sports moves (much like Waluigi) due to nothing but pure fan demand.

Oh, okay my bad

 

[Deleted member]

The party and sports games are two entire pillars of the franchise completely unrepresented, and Daisy would've been a good fit for sports. Hopefully Waluigi can do it since they didn't allow Daisy to.

Don't get me wrong, it makes sense. Daisy's not high up on the project plan? I can understand that. She's massive clone bait anyway, and that makes the fans happy. There's just a whole different character there and they managed to bring her personality through with animations, despite the fact that depending on your settings, she's literally Peach's alternate colors.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What are the claims they are even referring to regarding Fatmanonice ?

Once again bringing up the crushing irony that if I'm a pathological liar who shouldn't be taken seriously, why bother? "He doesn't know anything and all his contacts are made up but, also, we should carefully research his speculation and theorycraft."

 

[Paraspikey]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It starts.

 

[Firox]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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Leading with their trump card, eh?

 

[Terry Badguy]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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???

 

[axel_]

I still have no idea how Vergeben got in touch with actual good sources for Smash Ultimate. If you've seen his leaks prior to Smash about Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, Street Fighter 5, Dragon Ball FighterZ, etc. you know that whoever he gets in contact is either completely wrong with outdated info, just throwing globs of dirt at the wall and hoping it sticks, or is intentionally wrong just to **** with him (never forget the Jojo 2D fighter by French Bread)

 

[Terry Badguy]

This has been downloadable since this morning lol (in my region anyway)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth Yes, I know Peach and Daisy have slightly different animations but that's what I'm getting at too; they don't have to. As others pointed out, Daisy was essentially an ALT for 17 years so it could be argued she could have simply been done like Hero or Alph but she wasn't. As the Koopalings have shown, swapping voice clips isn't exactly an issue so there's more to it. Sakurai has even noted in the past that the personalities of characters can be shown off in things as simple as idle animations so, circling back to ARMS, this means that if multiple ARMS were mashed into one that they would all have the same idle animations, further complicating the situation.

 

[Vector Victor]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It starts.

-7 seconds later-

Nintendo: 'And that's all the news for the week and next week. Whew! We are tired.'

 

[Nanami77]

Since its looking very likely that a promotion will happen very soon, I might as well say this

I used to be a massive detractor of Geno and other Spirits/ATs in general on this thread and other sites. And while I still would prefer other picks, every character that I used to rag on all of the time doesn’t seem completely limited now that a Spirit is nearly guaranteed for FP6.

So yeah, sorry for the constant pessimism that I used to bring to this thread all of the time (I used to be known as nessdeltarune during this period). I fully accept that I likely was 100% wrong about ATs and Spirits. In hindsight, no matter how I felt, its still only a few lines of code that can be changed at anytime if Nintendo feels like it, lol.

I’m not saying its a lock, but I no longer see Geno and other Spirits as a complete impossibility moving forward.

 

[Andwooooo]

Bold of you to assume that Nintendo will announce anything more this month.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Since its looking very likely that a promotion will happen very soon, I might as well say this

I used to be a massive detractor of Geno and other Spirits/ATs in general on this thread and other sites. And while I still would prefer other picks, every character that I used to rag on all of the time doesn’t seem completely limited now that a Spirit is nearly guaranteed for FP6.

So yeah, sorry for the constant pessimism that I used to bring to this thread all of the time (I used to be known as nessdeltarune during this period). I fully accept that I likely was 100% wrong about ATs and Spirits.

I’m not saying its a lock, but I no longer see Geno and other Spirits as a complete impossibility moving forward.

God may forgive you but, as for the Geno fanbase, we will not...

(But seriously, I appreciate the humility as well as you coming back.)

 

[JoscarGamma]

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270770820520923136?s=20

Maybe something is coming tomorrow? I saw this posted in the arms thread

 

[Andwooooo]

Super excited to finally have the Smash video scheduled for two weeks from now, where there's no reveal outside of an Arms 2 rep who was never even present in Arms, thus giving us no new information whatsoever.

 

[Sigran101]

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270770820520923136?s=20

Maybe something is coming tomorrow? I saw this posted in the arms thread

So we're getting another sword and shield presentation tomorrow? Damn. That's definitely curtains for smash this week.

 

[Fenriraga]

Well the Twitter is officially back, that's something at least.

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270770820520923136?s=20

Maybe something is coming tomorrow? I saw this posted in the arms thread

Says the tweet is unavailable for me, what's it about?

 

[Andwooooo]

Weird that Amazon of all places is dropping this news. I don't think this necessarily means curtains for Smash this week, but it'll very likely be Tuesday before anything gets revealed.

 

[MisterMike]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player.

I always find it funny when people try to act like Sakurai makes characters into Echo Fighters for any reason that isn't "Well, we have some time left to flesh these alt costumes out a bit, let's see what we can do!". Man's been pretty clear about Echoes being made as extras after the "Premium Slots" were filled. Hell, in Smash 4 he was literally about to make Alph an Echo for Olimar complete with Rock Pikmin, and the only reason that didn't happen was because they ran out of time.

The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

Daisy splitting off from Peach was mere convenience. Dark Pit splitting off from Pit was actually well justified. Basically, Dark Pit couldn't use The Three Sacred Treasures like Pit could, so he'd have to use something else. In order to avoid making something entirely new, they repurposed Zelda and Shiek's Final Smash into a sniper shot from his Dark Pit Staff.

In terms of their mechanics, there's not a whole lot different between the four of them (Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Min-Min) that would make them all too dissimilar from eachother to the point that they couldn't work as one fighter. A lot of their differences basically boil down to "extra jumps" or "permanent charge buff", passive abilities that make a world of difference in ARMS, but would be negligable when put into Smash.

When it comes to animations, a lot of the basic things like running, jumping, punching, etc. can easily be uniform amongst all the characters. Stuff like idle animations, taunts or victory animations could easily be changed a bit between each character without making them separate fighters. For example, Byleth's male and female alts have slightly different idle stances between eachother, as well as a slightly different victory animation or two. Small changes like that would be an easy way to keep their personalities intact whilst still making them one fighter.

If you're interested, I've made a Moveset Concept for an ARMS Fighter that mixes all of their gimmicks into one fighter and then some.

I will say this though, if Sakurai ends up making the ARMS character someone specific, my money is on Ribbon Girl. She a co-mascot, had a mii costume, is fairly popular, has arguably the most "smash bros-like" stage, and adds a feminine touch to the fighter's pass. An added bonus would be her obliteration of the "spirits deconfirm" rule paving the way for Geno.

Not that I'm saying you're saying this, but I find it funny that so many people are willing to dismiss Spring Man from being upgraded because he's so generic, yet are totally fine with Ribbon Girl despite her being similarly generic like Spring Man. As far as I'm concerned, a generic popstar idol is just the female equivalent of a generic shonen boxer hero.

Since its looking very likely that a promotion will happen very soon, I might as well say this

I used to be a massive detractor of Geno and other Spirits/ATs in general on this thread and other sites. And while I still would prefer other picks, every character that I used to rag on all of the time doesn’t seem completely limited now that a Spirit is nearly guaranteed for FP6.

So yeah, sorry for the constant pessimism that I used to bring to this thread all of the time (I used to be known as nessdeltarune during this period). I fully accept that I likely was 100% wrong about ATs and Spirits. In hindsight, no matter how I felt, its still only a few lines of code that can be changed at anytime if Nintendo feels like it, lol.

I’m not saying its a lock, but I no longer see Geno and other Spirits as a complete impossibility moving forward.

Oh ****, I remember you! Nice to see you again! Also that reminds me, I should finish watching Eva. I got 10 episodes in before I just stopped.

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270770820520923136?s=20

Maybe something is coming tomorrow? I saw this posted in the arms thread

>This tweet is unavailable
HAPPENING?!

 

[Nanami77]

Well the Twitter is officially back, that's something at least.


Says the tweet is unavailable for me, what's it about?

Same for me

I think the Nintendo Ninjas came for them

 

[PatPrime]

https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270770820520923136?s=20

Maybe something is coming tomorrow? I saw this posted in the arms thread

Oh boy, can't wait for MORE Pokemon. Who needs new announcements?

Sorry for sounding like an asshole but I'm getting sick of this.

 

[JarBear]

I hope someone screen shot it. I can't see it.

 

[Firox]

this means that if multiple ARMS were mashed into one that they would all have the same idle animations, further complicating the situation.

Whoa, whoa, cool your boots there, chief. Doesn't Byleth have different idle animations between male and female? Who says they'd all have to share idle animations? They could even have unique victory animations. We can't really assume how far (or un-far) Sakurai will go to make something work. There's always the possibility that he sets an entirely new precedent as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn’t we already have Sword and Shield news like a week ago?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Here you go guys.

Spoiler

 

[MattX20]

The tweet wasn't deleted https://twitter.com/amazongames/status/1270775803773513728

 

[zferolie]

Yeah cant see this tweet either, what are you guys talking about?

Ok i see... odd to get another, but maybe it will actually say what pokemon are coming, and maybe announce something new, like a new game?

 

[Vector Victor]

Weird that Amazon of all places is dropping this news. I don't think this necessarily means curtains for Smash this week, but it'll very likely be Tuesday before anything gets revealed.

Seems like every other site besides Nintendo wants to announce Nintendo news. Remember how Best Buy was first to show off Joker's render while Nintendo was dragging their feet last year?

Odds are The Weather Channel or Petco websites would release Nintendo news before Nintendo.

Nintendo: -coyly- 'OH, we are just waiting for the RIIIIIIIIIGHT time to release news to get max hype react-'
The entire planet: 'SPIT IT OUT ALREADY!'

 

[Franco Geno]

With Geno's reveal potentially days away, I have a question. How many of ya'll are going to stick around on the Geno social if and when it happens? I know a lot of people will move on to other character threads or quit speculation altogether, but it would be nice if a lot of this community stuck together.

Even if i'm not as active as i used to be i'll stick around because you guys are just that great, and besides i still need to post the meme i promised a long time ago when Geno gets revealed

 

[YsDisciple]

Hmm... weird that it was the official Amazon Video Games twitter that tweeted the Sword and Shield showcase and not Nintendo. Hmm... Nonetheless, at least we have Sony's PS5 virtual presentation tomorrow. Hopefully some noteworthy game announcements/reveals happen (like... a new Crash Bandicoot game).

 

[Firox]

Here you go guys.

Spoiler

Just what I always wanted.....(left eye twitches)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth Yes, I know Peach and Daisy have slightly different animations but that's what I'm getting at too; they don't have to. As others pointed out, Daisy was essentially an ALT for 17 years so it could be argued she could have simply been done like Hero or Alph but she wasn't. As the Koopalings have shown, swapping voice clips isn't exactly an issue so there's more to it. Sakurai has even noted in the past that the personalities of characters can be shown off in things as simple as idle animations so, circling back to ARMS, this means that if multiple ARMS were mashed into one that they would all have the same idle animations, further complicating the situation.

She wasn't "essentially an alt". Daisy already looked widely different from Peach before Melee.

She was an alt reference. Just like Chrom was.

They have to have animation differences because all Echoes have had a hard requirement of some kind of gameplay difference.

Byleth also, just remember, has different animations too, but they all have identical hurtboxes, so there's zero gameplay differences.

If there's no gameplay differences, they're an alt only. If there's gameplay differences, they're an Echo. That's the actual rule Sakurai told us about how Echoes work. There must be a gameplay change to justify it, no matter how bleh it is. That's the core factor, as gameplay differences affect results. These results he cannot differentiate between costumes. That's why they require their own slot and programming to properly record stuff. That's the core reason alt costumes were turned into Echoes during 4.

As Daisy was purely an alt reference, not a straight costume like a Koopaling, she is not logical to compare to a Hero situation. Your analogy is massively flawed. Dark Pit is the only example similar to the issues with ARMS. No more, no less. And what ultimately got him to work was a gameplay factor and a personal interpretation that maybe personality is worth mentioning. You can't just ignore that gameplay was a core factor in splitting him off from Pit either. Unless you're not trying to make a fair analogy, anyway.

 

[Super10ZX]

Reminder that the Pokémon showcase from a little while only aired in Japan. Unless I’m missing something, this is probably just the same thing only for other reigions.

 

[axel_]

That Pokemon showcase isn't from Nintendo itself. It's all good.

 

[JarBear]

The tweet doesn't seem to be anything official at all but some kind of showcase for the game that is already out.

Hmmm.

 

[Fenriraga]

If it does end up being just the ARMS rep shown off whenever they do this, I hope they tell us that will be the case like they did with Terry. Granted, nobody would believe them and be upset when there isn't something else, but y'know.

 

[Sigran101]

I really enjoyed Pokemon sword but even I'm sick of it. Did we really need two separate presentations for this? I guess it's not like they would have done smash news if not for this, but it's still disappointing that that's our news for the week.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Reminder that the Pokémon showcase from a little while only aired in Japan. Unless I’m missing something, this is probably just the same thing only for other reigions.

Technically there was also an English version for the West, but it was unlisted for some reason. You could still watch it with a link.

Anyway this Amazon thing doesn’t seem like anything to fret over.

 

[AugustusB]

No one is gonna talk about Michael the Spikester post about the tweet mentions 6/11 but the recent tweet is dated for 6/13?

Perhaps the date was wrong, but why Saturday? That hasn't happened before in recent memory.

EDIT: So I guess the lapse in time was to correct the date. Still, Saturday seems weird to have a showcase..or maybe not.

 

[Franco Geno]

Since its looking very likely that a promotion will happen very soon, I might as well say this

I used to be a massive detractor of Geno and other Spirits/ATs in general on this thread and other sites. And while I still would prefer other picks, every character that I used to rag on all of the time doesn’t seem completely limited now that a Spirit is nearly guaranteed for FP6.

So yeah, sorry for the constant pessimism that I used to bring to this thread all of the time (I used to be known as nessdeltarune during this period). I fully accept that I likely was 100% wrong about ATs and Spirits. In hindsight, no matter how I felt, its still only a few lines of code that can be changed at anytime if Nintendo feels like it, lol.

I’m not saying its a lock, but I no longer see Geno and other Spirits as a complete impossibility moving forward.

Hello there, i must say that it is a nice surprise to see you around here and also It's okay, everyone makes mistakes. have some choccy milk and join the Geno speculation train with us