Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Trevenant]

I would check the replies on that post from Sakurai if I were you. Quite a few people thought he was teasing Porky for Smash

They may just be joking. Or they just don't have much experience with Smash as a whole. I don't think any hard-core fans say it and actually mean it

 

[Sigran101]

This is exactly the trend I've noticed over the past few days. The lot of us here have been like "yeah a Hero situation would make a lot of sense" and most everyone says "nah it's gonna be exactly one character because ARMS fighters are sooooo unique and have animations"...

... and then PapaGenos makes a video about [credible leaker] saying the same thing, and then Vergeben says the same thing. I'm thinking we were the leakers all along, bros.

Papa doesn't know any more than we do and Verg didn't actually post anything. Might want to hold off on claiming that W.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

unrelated to anything but related to that verg post, I hope the p4g rumor on the list is real.

other then the p4g thing thats been everywhere on twitter today, i havent seen any of the other stuff at all

 

[JarBear]

We should talk about a Heihachi, Lloyd and Ms. Pac-Man as a Pokémon trainer like DLC fighter and let’s see if “friends” of Verge says he’s heard that.

 

[pinshadow]

Guys Vergeben is back and he heard that the arms rep is a hero situationView attachment 274357

Do we know if Verge said any of this? Either way aside from Heihachi appearing in something literally everything here is either piggybacking or blatantly obvious.

• Sabi and Zippo were both talking about the 2D metroid in January, but I remember verge also mentioning something similar like a year ago so IDK
• Tansut has been teasing TWEWY 2 for months
• Sabi was teasing something Nintendo related with tires back in January, seems it really was MK9
• SNK is at New Game Plus, what else would they reveal there?
• EVERYONE broke this yesterday.
• He's not even the first person to say they've heard a Hero situation if Papa is anything to go by, but Smash information is whack and who knows who actually heard what when.

I still don't see a Hero situation anyway, that only really works when all the characters actually make sense to play the same. All the Koopalings are in the Clown Car so differences don't matter. All of the Heroes are the same class and it's not ridiculously immersion breaking to have them all use Spells they don't actually learn because they all fight basically the same anyway. With ARMS though? Really not the case.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Most of that Vergeben rumours are not that new. So they are easy to guess. The only one new is that about Heihachi being a guest star in something soon, it can be about Smash but maybe something else like other fighting game (like KOF15, it can also be both sure lol).

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just to quick comment on the Verge stuff:

-Evidence has been high since, well, literally the beginning of DLC that Namco will be getting a second rep and that it will be either Heihachi or Lloyd. That said, the eventual Namco rep has been a coin toss for awhile now so if it winds up being Heihachi, it wouldn't exactly be too much of a shock. Despite this, Heihachi does guest star in a lot of things so him making yet another appearance in "something" is pretty open ended. Like Ryu and Terry, this could be applied to just about anything so it actually not being Smash in the end wouldn't be too surprising either.

-I have mixed feelings on ARMS potentially being a Hero situation. A big aspect of ARMS is that all the characters have unique traits. Springman has the equivalent of Lucario's aura. Ribbon Girl can triple jump. Ninjara has a smoke dash. Min Min has grounded and aerial kicks. Mashing these all into one character kind of feels like it would go against Sakurai's philosophy of character design.

GameXplain also brought up a good point yesterday in that that a lot of the same people behind ARMS developed the Splatoon games. The Final Splat Fest in Splatoon had Callie vs Marie and the end result had an IRL effect on Splatoon 2. This said, Min Min winning the final tournament in ARMS will likely have an IRL effect too, whether it's Smash or ARMS 2.

 

[pinshadow]

Just to quick comment on the Verge stuff:

-Evidence has been high since, well, literally the beginning of DLC that Namco will be getting a second rep and that it will be either Heihachi or Lloyd. That said, the eventual Namco rep has been a coin toss for awhile now so if it winds up being Heihachi, it wouldn't exactly be too much of a shock. Despite this, Heihachi does guest star in a lot of things so him making yet another appearance in "something" is pretty open ended. Like Ryu and Terry, this could be applied to just about anything so it actually not being Smash in the end wouldn't be too surprising either.

-I have mixed feelings on ARMS potentially being a Hero situation. A big aspect of ARMS is that all the characters have unique traits. Springman has the equivalent of Lucario's aura. Ribbon Girl can triple jump. Ninjara has a smoke dash. Min Min has grounded and aerial kicks. Mashing these all into one character kind of feels like it would go against Sakurai's philosophy of character design.

GameXplain also brought up a good point yesterday in that that a lot of the same people behind ARMS developed the Splatoon games. The Final Splat Fest in Splatoon had Callie vs Marie and the end result had an IRL effect on Splatoon 2. This said, Min Min winning the final tournament in ARMS will like have an IRL affect too, whether it's Smash or ARMS 2.

I mean I'm sure there's some overlap given they're all done by Nintendo EPD but wasn't ARMS mostly an offshoot from the Mario Kart 8 team? I mean most of the Splatoon team seemed to run straight into Splatoon 2, which released literally a month later.

 

[Sigran101]

Does anyone have any proof that Verg said this stuff? Because he didn't post it on gamefaqs which is his usual spot and Sabi, who like it or not has an impeccable track record, says this stuff doesn't seem accurate. I think we should all take a moment and see if there's any actual proof before we look too deep into this.

Edit: to show he didn't post it on gamefaqs

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just stepping in to tell you guys that NoA is active again on Twitter.

 

[Firox]

-I have mixed feelings on ARMS potentially being a Hero situation. A big aspect of ARMS is that all the characters have unique traits. Springman has the equivalent of Lucario's aura. Ribbon Girl can triple jump. Ninjara has a smoke dash. Min Min has grounded and aerial kicks. Mashing these all into one character kind of feels like it would go against Sakurai's philosophy of character design.

Firstly, while ARMS does have some unique mechanics between characters, they all have access to the exact same interchangeable gloves and the general gameplay is very samey. There's no guarantee that Sakurai will even care to implement every little character-specific gimmick into the finished ARMS character. Even if he did, I feel that things like the Min Min kick are kind of obligatory no matter who the ARMS characters ends up being just to flesh out their moveset so it doesn't boil down to just a bunch of mundane stretchy-punches.

Secondly, what exactly would you describe as "Sakurai's philosophy of character design"? Granted, he likes to stay true to the source material, but there's a limit to how strict he can afford to be without risking a really boring or repetitive moveset...or an overly bloated one.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’m kind of wary of this Vergeben stuff not coming straight from him. I remember Sabi playing games in the past and lying that Vergeben said something “in order to get him to speak.”

However, about Sabi not believing it: remember he also didn’t believe Banjo-Kazooie.

Regarding ARMS 2 potentially switching to Min Min as the mascot: I don’t see it. Mascots/protagonists are usually the easiest/most basic to learn to appeal to a majority of people and be good for newbs, attracting the newbs to them first. If Min Min was the mascot, used on the box art and stuff, they could dumb her down.

Spring Man is also a favorite of the game’s creator. And even in Min Min’s champion artwork, Spring Man was just behind her in front of everyone else. That PCB was also a tournament involving skill, not a popularity contest.

 

[MisterMike]

Guys Vergeben is back and he heard that the arms rep is a hero situationView attachment 274357

After the Great Hoaxing of 2018, if Vergeben is really saying this stuff, then I'm willing to believe him.

This is exactly the trend I've noticed over the past few days. The lot of us here have been like "yeah a Hero situation would make a lot of sense" and most everyone says "nah it's gonna be exactly one character because ARMS fighters are sooooo unique and have animations"...

... and then PapaGenos makes a video about [credible leaker] saying the same thing, and then Vergeben says the same thing. I'm thinking we were the leakers all along, bros.

If I'm a leaker, then I'm gonna drop some bombshells right now:

Spoiler: Challenger Pack 6

• ARMS Fighter is a Hero-esque 4-in-1 fighter comprised of Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Min-Min. Just about all of the gimmicks utilized by these fighters are present and accounted for in this fighter in some way.
• Thier stage is called "ARMS Stadium". It's a basic stage in a stadium, but over the course of the match it changes terrains a la Pokemon Stadium. Each terrain corresponds to a particular character, and will always appear if you choose a specific music track, like Garreg Mach Monastery. (Ex. Choose Min-Min's Theme Song and the arena will always be shaped like a bowl.) There are also a large number of cameos from the other ARMS Fighters, including the ones that are playable if they're not being used. Playing specific music tracks will guarentee they show up.
• The music they come with are as follows: ARMS Main Theme (Remix), Spring Man's Theme, Ribbon Girl's Theme, Ninjara's Theme, Master Mummy's Theme, Mechanica's Theme, Min-Min's Theme, Twintelle's Theme, Helix's Theme, Max Brass' Theme, and Hedlok's Battle Theme.
• The Mii Costumes for Wave 6 are the two Monster Hunter costumes returning from Smash 4, Gooigi, Marina Lightyears, and The Knight from Hollow Knight with his game's main boss theme as a music track.
• There's a big new balance patch coming, with Little Mac finally getting fixed.

These next couple Challenger Packs are a bit less clear to me, but this should be a basic outline:

Spoiler: Challenger Pack 7

• DLC Fighter 7 is Geno.
• His stage is Forest Maze. Features plenty of cameos from other SMRPG characters.
• The Mii Costumes for Wave 7 are Chocobo, Geno, Mallow, Smithy, and Sephiroth with One Winged Angel as a music track.

Spoiler: Challenger Pack 8

• DLC Fighter 8 is Heihachi.
• His stage is Mishima Mansion. The stage will change throughout the match as the mansion burns to the ground.
• The Mii Costumes for Wave 8 are Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil, Ms. Pac-Man, Kazuya, and Ogre with his theme song from Street Fighter X Tekken as a music track.

That's all I can leak right now. dOn'T tElL aNyOnE1!

 

[pinshadow]

Does anyone have any proof that Verg said this stuff? Because he didn't post it on gamefaqs which is his usual spot and Sabi, who like it or not has an impeccable track record, says this stuff doesn't seem accurate. I think we should all take a moment and see if there's any actual proof before we look too deep into this.

Apparently it was a DM from Verge to Sabi, or atleast someone. This seems to be it?

Oh boy, guess what user of this thread gets mentioned here? I give it about 3 hours before the thread goes down the tube again.

 

[Sigran101]

Yes Nintendo, after a week and a half of radio silence and smash fans getting close to a meltdown this is the news we needed.

Animal Crossing tweet for some reason

 

[Fatmanonice]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player. The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Does anyone have any proof that Verg said this stuff? Because he didn't post it on gamefaqs which is his usual spot and Sabi, who like it or not has an impeccable track record, says this stuff doesn't seem accurate. I think we should all take a moment and see if there's any actual proof before we look too deep into this.

Its possible that Vergeben stuff is true but the dates are wrong. For example; he says that next 2D Metroid will be announced soon (one expects soon as this month) but considering its a 2021 release, I totally expect to happen by end of this year. Nintendo is shortening their marketing cycles to 6-8 weeks.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I'm still not buying this leak personally. Vergeben not having said it aside, if Nintendo was able to keep Byleth a very close secret, then I don't know why they would turn around and pull a massive OOPS on the ARMS rep, and in-house made first party character. Not trying to discredit Geno of course, I just don't think that the ARMS rep would leak if Byleth didn't.

 

[domriver]

Just stepping in to tell you guys that NoA is active again on Twitter.

Yes Nintendo, after a week and a half of radio silence and smash fans getting close to a meltdown this is the news we needed.

Animal Crossing tweet for some reason

Hopefully we see something substantial today - otherwise next week might be it. ugh...

 

[Sigran101]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player. The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

Thank you! So much this!

 

[JarBear]

Ugh, really Nintendo? That's the activity you are giving us?

Sigh.

Sup papagenos .

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player. The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

Dark Pit's personality was a small reason why he was split. The team had gameplay ideas.

Daisy was never an actual alt, but a straight reference as is. In Melee, she had a skin tone difference, but by that point Daisy and Peach had slightly different designs. She was only an outright palette swap before the 64, which gave Daisy a massively unique change.

Overall, they're not terribly great examples. It's generally been gameplay differences that play the biggest roles. And obviously ARMS has that too, so a Hero situation, while possible, is not very likely.

 

[Firox]

Firox Sakurai's concept of character design is that if a character can't be radically different based on their moveset then they try to set them apart by their personalities. For example, Sakurai has repeatedly used this philosophy to explain semi clones and echoes over the years. Bowser Jr and the Koopalings work because the focus of the character is the Klown Kart anyways while Hero is literally designed to be a blank slate and self insert for the player. The ARMS' characters are not blank slates and they're not interchangeable. If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

I don't think clones like Dark Pit and Daisy are good examples of non-interchangeable characters. As someone who mains Dark Pit, I can tell you that the minute differences between side B's and arrows hardly justifies the necessity for an entirely separate character slot beyond simply fluffing the roster size. (plus, Dark Pit is already an alt of Pit anyway) This goes doubly so for Daisy since, if I'm not mistaken, she's almost literally a clone of Peach in every way except aesthetics. I mean, I get what your saying, but I also can't see Sakurai arbitrarily picking a specific ARMS character unless it was Springman or Ribbon Girl.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think clones like Dark Pit and Daisy are good examples of non-interchangeable characters. As someone who mains Dark Pit, I can tell you that the minute differences between side B's and arrows hardly justifies the necessity for an entirely separate character slot beyond simply fluffing the roster size. (plus, Dark Pit is already an alt of Pit anyway) This goes doubly so for Daisy since, if I'm not mistaken, she's almost literally a clone of Peach in every way except aesthetics. I mean, I get what your saying, but I also can't see Sakurai arbitrarily picking a specific ARMS character unless it was Springman or Ribbon Girl.

Daisy's differences are some animations that affects hurtboxes. One patch did have an error that separated their Turnips a bit, though.

Dark Pit has tangible gameplay differences in comparison(including the Final Smash), and Richter even has a slightly different elemental B move that changes how you play. Only one has Fire, which directly affects certain items. Not that I disagree that many of them could work fine as alts, to note.

 

[pinshadow]

I'm still not buying this leak personally. Vergeben not having said it aside, if Nintendo was able to keep Byleth a very close secret, then I don't know why they would turn around and pull a massive OOPS on the ARMS rep, and in-house made first party character. Not trying to discredit Geno of course, I just don't think that the ARMS rep would leak if Byleth didn't.

Who's saying Byleth didn't get out? From what seems to be the case some people atleast knew a day or two in advance. Christ Verge leaked all the costumes with Byleth like 20 minutes before they got revealed.

 

[papagenos]

Ugh, really Nintendo? That's the activity you are giving us?

Sigh.

Sup papagenos .

Not much, just reading through the thread.

Waiting to see what is up with the ARMS character and when we will get the reveal for that. Wondering if Vergeben really said the stuff about Heihachi appearing as a guest in something, and if that something could be Smash or what.

and as always hopeful Geno makes it in Smash at some point.

 

[MattX20]

Not much, just reading through the thread.

Waiting to see what is up with the ARMS character and when we will get the reveal for that. Wondering if Vergeben really said the stuff about Heihachi appearing as a guest in something, and if that something could be Smash or what.

and as always hopeful Geno makes it in Smash at some point.

Given the fact that Heihachi wasn't connected to Smash, it gives me the impression he's part of a different crossover

 

[axel_]

>arms rep is gonna be hero v2

>we're gonna have to listen to vergeben again

Serious opinions though, avoiding my hot take that "Hero v2" is a bad idea for the ARMS rep, it's a little weird that Vergeben is leaking so much stuff again. Bullet list of all my opinion of everything he's said:

- I have a hard time believing anything with the fighting games. I'm VERY aware of Vergeben's past prior to Smash Ultimate, and his track record is... not good. Still hoping for that KOF XV reveal being soon.
- Not sure what the Heihachi guest appearance is gonna be if it isn't Smash. All I can think of is KOF XV.
- Real happy for TWEWY fans, and especially Nomura, for practically getting their dreams come true.
- Persona 4 was already leaked on Steam prior to this.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Dark Pit's personality was a small reason why he was split. The team had gameplay ideas.

Daisy was never an actual alt, but a straight reference as is. In Melee, she had a skin tone difference, but by that point Daisy and Peach had slightly different designs. She was only an outright palette swap before the 64, which gave Daisy a massively unique change.

Overall, they're not terribly great examples. It's generally been gameplay differences that play the biggest roles. And obviously ARMS has that too, so a Hero situation, while possible, it's very likely.

Peach and Daisy are basically 1:1 in Ultimate so it does basically boil down to personalities with them. Simon and Richter is literally one difference and it's that Simon's holy water has fire properties. That's what I'm getting at: you have characters with miniscule differences between them and even then it was decided to make them seperate characters. Mashing multiple ARMS characters together in the same slot doesn't work the same way. Hero works because he has literally no real personality and the Koopalings work because they're not the key focus in their character.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Apparently it was a DM from Verge to Sabi, or atleast someone. This seems to be it?
View attachment 274368
Oh boy, guess what user of this thread gets mentioned here? I give it about 3 hours before the thread goes down the tube again.

What are the claims they are even referring to regarding Fatmanonice ?

 

[Firox]

Daisy's differences are some animations that affects hurtboxes. One patch did have an error that separated their Turnips a bit, though.

Dark Pit has tangible gameplay differences in comparison(including the Final Smash), and Richter even has a slightly different elemental B move that changes how you play. Only one has Fire, which directly affects certain items. Not that I disagree that many of them could work fine as alts, to note.

I guess the real question is whether a few personality exclusive animations warrants the need for an entirely separate character. I wouldn't think so but Sakurai does work in mysterious ways.

PS I forgot about DP's different final smash because I don't really believe in using Final Smashes. They're horribly uncompetitive and few of them are balanced in any way. I only ever use them when my friends and I are playing a mass FFA with items and hazards on.

 

[EditorMax]

Apparently it was a DM from Verge to Sabi, or atleast someone. This seems to be it?
Oh boy, guess what user of this thread gets mentioned here? I give it about 3 hours before the thread goes down the tube again.

idk gang

this seems promising

 

[zferolie]

I do wish Daisy and Peach had a few more differences, like she pulled put carrots that flew slightly differently then turnips, or a few of her moves her maybe faster or slower.

But yeah i am in the camp its not a hero situation. I used to be for it, but over time thinking it over and seeing other peoples thoughts have turned me off that

 

[Just a random scrub]

Apparently it was a DM from Verge to Sabi, or atleast someone. This seems to be it?
View attachment 274368
Oh boy, guess what user of this thread gets mentioned here? I give it about 3 hours before the thread goes down the tube again.

Wait really? Where'd you get this?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Peach and Daisy are basically 1:1 in Ultimate so it does basically boil down to personalities with them. Simon and Richter is literally one difference and it's that Simon's holy water has fire properties. That's what I'm getting at: you have characters with miniscule differences between them and even then it was decided to make them seperate characters. Mashing multiple ARMS characters together in the same slot doesn't work the same way. Hero works because he has literally no real personality and the Koopalings work because they're not the key focus in their character.

Having different animations means they literally have different gameplay. Calling them 1:1 is misleading. 1:1 is only for alts like Hero.

Animations have always affected gameplay. It's not much, but that's why Daisy cannot be an alt. Unique animations that make the alt situation impossible. It's not a personality factor alone.

Daisy's difference is very tiny bits of gameplay in the end. Personality can easily be done without changing hurtboxes at all during animations, as we've seen with Byleth, who actually has slightly different animations but directly has the same hurtbox.

I guess the real question is whether a few personality exclusive animations warrants the need for an entirely separate character. I wouldn't think so but Sakurai does work in mysterious ways.

PS I forgot about DP's different final smash because I don't really believe in using Final Smashes. They're horribly uncompetitive and few of them are balanced in any way. I only ever use them when my friends and I are playing a mass FFA with items and hazards on.

Pretty much. Animations is the difference between Daisy and Peach that actually matter. They literally were identical in tons of games beforehand and still have no real differences. Alts can even have different victory screens, so Daisy's split is not remotely notable at all. If she had no animation changes, she wouldn't be an Echo either. The reason for the Alt to Echo split was stated directly by Sakurai that they can't have any gameplay differences, no matter how minute. All Echoes apply to this. As they have some kind of difference, this affects results. Personality was a secondary factor, and you can still decently get that with taunts and voices, as long as they don't affect hurtboxes/hitboxes. As Byleth shows, it's clearly doable.

Combined with unique victory screens, and it's pretty easy for Daisy to work as a Peach alt overall. However, as Daisy was never a real alt of Peach, it doesn't mean much. Dark Pit was the only actual alt of a character outright at any point in time. Other alts were references otherwise. Generally, he's made characters who are Echoes and removed an alt that references the character. That's why the Echoes beyond Dark Pit are not real examples of any kind of Hero situation. We have yet to see a case beyond Dark Pit(who had gameplay reasons for being split off instead of being an alt) where they removed a direct character alt and did it purely for personality reasons. It's no wonder Alph isn't being split off. Him nor Olimar have personalities in Smash. It relies entirely on gameplay at that point. Personality absolutely can play a role, but pretending it's the only reason is clearly ignoring the core reason for the clones, which was "different gameplay" in Smash 4. Besides that, nobody else was an alt beforehand and being split off in a game before Smash 4 directly did so.

 

[Fenriraga]

Ugh, I guess we're not getting anything this week. I just somehow doubt they'll pull another late night announcement.

Ah well.

 

[Firox]

I will say this though, if Sakurai ends up making the ARMS character someone specific, my money is on Ribbon Girl. She a co-mascot, had a mii costume, is fairly popular, has arguably the most "smash bros-like" stage, and adds a feminine touch to the fighter's pass. An added bonus would be her obliteration of the "spirits deconfirm" rule paving the way for Geno.

 

[pinshadow]

Wait really? Where'd you get this?

Friend sent me it, think it got posted in one of the discords. I don't really see any reason for Sabi to lie about what Verge told him, especially if he doesn't even believe a lot of it anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Papa doesn't know any more than we do and Verg didn't actually post anything. Might want to hold off on claiming that W.

T'was a ****post...

If Sakurai couldn't justify Pit and Dark Pit or Peach and Daisy simply being interchangeable in the same character slot, I have a hard time seeing this with, say, Springman, Ribbongirl, Min-Min, and Ninjara.

Sakurai justified Daisy being "orange Peach" since Melee, so that ain't gonna fly with me. She made it in as a Peach echo despite having the potential for Party/Sports moves (much like Waluigi) due to nothing but pure fan demand.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

T'was a ****post...


Sakurai justified Daisy being "orange Peach" since Melee, so that ain't gonna fly with me. She made it in as a Peach echo despite having the potential for Party/Sports moves (much like Waluigi) due to nothing but pure fan demand.

The party and sports games are two entire pillars of the franchise completely unrepresented, and Daisy would've been a good fit for sports. Hopefully Waluigi can do it since they didn't allow Daisy to.