Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

MattX20

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If we do get bonus characters, they will be first party almost assuredly so. The question ultimately becomes, which characters? In my opinion, they would go for characters that at most were spirits, and Dixie Kong technically still counts because only her hat was used and not a full blown costume, and I know she gets a fair amount of requests still. Geno though will either be or not be in the Fighter Pass, and is less likely as a bonus
 
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-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.
And my fear is that Nintendo will do that AGAIN.
 
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Don't worry , he's going to be a bonus echo :4pacman:

---

Also , I just remembered that , for some reason... Star Hill is a location of Mario and Luigi Partners in Time. After the Geno cameo in SS , this kind of stuff truly make me wonder if Alphadream statements about wanting to use Geno and Mallow were a more serious consideration than I thought.
While Alphadream is kind of... Well , let's say that Bowser took them in their underground freezer , I wonder if Nintendo ever hired some Alphadream employees. After all , there wasn't too many (around 50 I think ?).
So if we're very lucky... Maybe Nintendo could try their hand at a Mario and Luigi , and these ex-Alphadream employees could take the opportunity to ask Nintendo if they can ask SE to use Geno and Mallow ? While unlikely , it would be a way to bring them back.
View attachment 272418
https://nintendoeverything.com/alph...no-and-mallow-could-be-used-in-a-future-game/
The staff who made Mario & Luigi was partially made up of former Super Mario RPG staff so I’m not surprised they’d reference it, that is super cool to know
 

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Sakurai's statements on Ridley:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...is_not_a_playable_fighter_in_super_smash_bros

Sakurai's statements on Chrom:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

Sakurai's comments on Daisy seem to be lost to the sands of time. In "Sakurai's Journal" from 2006, there's a request for Daisy and he comments that she hasn't been in anything important since Mario Land, and I always took that as well as her Peach ALT as him not taking her seriously. The original website it was on are gone as well as Nsider where the individual entries were translated into English. Samurai Panda's translations of some of the entries are still on this site but it's not complete. I even used to have a translation on a thumb drive but God knows where that's now too. Either way, Daisy was still a recolor for 17 years and three games despite her popularity.

As far as I know, Sakurai has never officially said anything on Dark Samus so this one is pure assumption on my part. For a time, Dark Samus basically fell in with the other "Dark" characters like Dark Link and Dark Metaknight despite very obvious differences between it and Samus. On that note, Dark Samus struck me as low priority for the same reasons Daisy was for 3 games.
 

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What does this have to do with Nintendo telling him to make Ridley playable?

Sorry, that's what I was referring to. Not being rejected, but that Nintendo forced him to make those. But yeah, my bad, I forgot he was rejected once.

Wasn't disagreeing with this.

Sakurai's comments on Daisy seem to be lost to the sands of time. In "Sakurai's Journal" from 2006, there's a request for Daisy and he comments that she hasn't been in anything important since Mario Land, and I always took that as well as her Peach ALT as him not taking her seriously. The original website it was on are gone as well as Nsider where the individual entries were translated into English. Samurai Panda's translations of some of the entries are still on this site but it's not complete. I even used to have a translation on a thumb drive but God knows where that's now too. Either way, Daisy was still a recolor for 17 years and three games despite her popularity.
I'd need to read the actual text, cause I don't know if I'd consider it the exact same conclusion as you as well. Cause rejection feels a bit misleading in this case. Not being taken seriously is a bit different from outright rejecting an idea. He probably had no idea of what to do with someone like Daisy due to a lack of anything notable since Mario Land. That may be what he means by "important". Cause she's literally Peach 2.0 in every game to begin with. She could've been a straight alt and at worst needed new lines. She'd be inaccurate like Olimar and Alph are, mind you, among the Pikmin & Captain duo(though at least with a voice, it's not as bad). My guess is it was a near straight color in Melee and color reference in 3 more games straight cause they were nearly identical bar personality alone. I don't feel it's in some way meant he disliked the idea or whatever. I don't really read his statements as having some slight against characters, though.

As far as I know, Sakurai has never officially said anything on Dark Samus so this one is pure assumption on my part. For a time, Dark Samus basically fell in with the other "Dark" characters like Dark Link and Dark Metaknight despite very obvious differences between it and Samus. On that note, Dark Samus struck me as low priority for the same reasons Daisy was for 3 games.
This doesn't sound like there's anything on Dark Samus then. There's really nothing to suggest he rejected her. Dark Samus is notable, so got an easy costume reference and an AT as well. It's probably as simple as that.
 
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This is yet another reason why I think bonus characters are definitely a possibility and why, if they are, they most likely will be first party. Point blank: if Nintendo wants it done, it gets done. We've technically seen this three times already in Ultimate:

-Struggled with figuring out how to make Ridley a playable character for years. Pretty decent evidence that Nintendo hard pushed Sakurai to figure it out based on his Smash Ballot results.

-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.

-Sakurai has already low-key implied that he was heavily pushed by Nintendo to do an ARMS character.

Although never outright said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how we wound up Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus too, all three being characters he's rejected in the past.

That's the thing about all this, Nintendo respects Sakurai as a developer but Sakurai has not so subtly repeatedly implied that Nintendo doesn't ask him if he wants to do certain characters, they ask him if he can. This also puts an interesting perspective on Plant because, even if it was a goofy bonus character, Nintendo still wanted it in and it happened. This is also why I strongly doubt ARMS will be the last first party character in Ultimate, especially with Nintendo being painfully aware that getting the rights to this many characters again will be borderline if not totally impossible in the future. TL;DR: if Nintendo wants bonus characters, they're going to happen and we have enough precedent to suggest that they likely do.
On Point sir. Though lets not forgot the most obvious. Nintendo is the one cutting his check. lol :p
 
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Beth Uriel Beth Uriel

Sakurai's statements on Ridley:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...is_not_a_playable_fighter_in_super_smash_bros

Sakurai's statements on Chrom:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ke_it_into_super_smash_bros_for_wii_u_and_3ds

Sakurai's comments on Daisy seem to be lost to the sands of time. In "Sakurai's Journal" from 2006, there's a request for Daisy and he comments that she hasn't been in anything important since Mario Land, and I always took that as well as her Peach ALT as him not taking her seriously. The original website it was on are gone as well as Nsider where the individual entries were translated into English. Samurai Panda's translations of some of the entries are still on this site but it's not complete. I even used to have a translation on a thumb drive but God knows where that's now too. Either way, Daisy was still a recolor for 17 years and three games despite her popularity.

As far as I know, Sakurai has never officially said anything on Dark Samus so this one is pure assumption on my part. For a time, Dark Samus basically fell in with the other "Dark" characters like Dark Link and Dark Metaknight despite very obvious differences between it and Samus. On that note, Dark Samus struck me as low priority for the same reasons Daisy was for 3 games.
the only place i can remember dark samus being mentioned prior to ultimate was miiverse when the assist was anounced for 4, miiverse has been shut down, the post lost, so the only place you might be able to find it is someone on youtube reporting on it, with the post in their video, if you can find one
 

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Beth Uriel Beth Uriel Fair enough. There's nothing official on Dark Samus and due to the loss of the Sacred Texts™, Daisy can be up to interpretation. My big takeaway is that the power dynamic is definitely on Nintendo's side and there's lots of examples, with one of the most notable being that Nintendo would have basically made "Brawl" a remastered online Melee if Sakurai had turned down Iwata's offer:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/0/1

This isn't to say Nintendo's a slave driver but they definitely throw their weight around when it comes to Smash.
 
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Beth Uriel Beth Uriel Fair enough. There's nothing official on Dark Samus and due to the loss of the Sacred Texts™, Daisy can be up to interpretation. My big takeaway is that the power dynamic is definitely on Nintendo's side and there's lots of examples, with one of the most notable being that Nintendo would have basically made "Brawl" a remastered online Melee if Sakurai had turned down Iwata's offer:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/0/1

This isn't to say Nintendo's a slave driver but they definitely throw their weight around when it comes to Smash.
The fact that Sakurai specified that Nintendo chose the DLC characters, along with pretty much everything else he's ever said on the topic, all heavily imply or outright confirm that he was the one making the roster decisions. Even Corrin was still HIS choice, he only did it because the Fire Emblem team convinced him he was a good fit for smash. This idea that Nintendo were the ones pushing for Ridley and Chrom is really stretching it and to put it bluntly undermines Sakurai's effort to make Ultimate satisfy fan demands more than Smash 4. The dude is allowed to change his mind on something like Ridley, or force himself to make it work to appease the fans.
 

Beth Uriel

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Beth Uriel Beth Uriel Fair enough. There's nothing official on Dark Samus and due to the loss of the Sacred Texts™, Daisy can be up to interpretation. My big takeaway is that the power dynamic is definitely on Nintendo's side and there's lots of examples, with one of the most notable being that Nintendo would have basically made "Brawl" a remastered online Melee if Sakurai had turned down Iwata's offer:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/0/1

This isn't to say Nintendo's a slave driver but they definitely throw their weight around when it comes to Smash.
Oh, no denying that. They clearly have a lot of control. That makes sense. Though like the above, I don't see how it applies to base game here. DLC, to some degree, in 4. In Ultimate's DLC, they have a lot of control, but as I noted, it's not that simple.

But it's also clear that Sakurai has a good bit of control too, as his article points out, the one I linked a bit earlier.

That said, the Ayumi translation from earlier, well, I was talking with Push and it seems it might be a bit off. I'll let you guys know as soon as possible what a better translation is. I do feel I posted hers a bit early, but after talking with Push, it was fine to post the outdated one. I just can't post his own translation till it's finished.
 
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Don't worry , he's going to be a bonus echo :4pacman:

---

Also , I just remembered that , for some reason... Star Hill is a location of Mario and Luigi Partners in Time. After the Geno cameo in SS , this kind of stuff truly make me wonder if Alphadream statements about wanting to use Geno and Mallow were a more serious consideration than I thought.
While Alphadream is kind of... Well , let's say that Bowser took them in their underground freezer , I wonder if Nintendo ever hired some Alphadream employees. After all , there wasn't too many (around 50 I think ?).
So if we're very lucky... Maybe Nintendo could try their hand at a Mario and Luigi , and these ex-Alphadream employees could take the opportunity to ask Nintendo if they can ask SE to use Geno and Mallow ? While unlikely , it would be a way to bring them back.
View attachment 272418
https://nintendoeverything.com/alph...no-and-mallow-could-be-used-in-a-future-game/
You know, that reminds me. While I was browsing through the Mario wiki one day, I discovered that "Star Hill" isn't just a location in SMRPG and Mario & Luigi Partners in Time. It turns out that another location in the Mario franchise shares that same name, although it was changed outside of Japan: Shooting Star Summit from the first Paper Mario game.

ezgif-4-3622f4bfba3b.gif



I know it's just a tiny detail in the grand scheme of things, but I just find it neat to have this lil bit of connective tissue between the 3 series of Mario RPGs, you know? Goes to show how far SMRPG's DNA really went, lol. Here's to hoping the M&L games can continue on despite Alphadream's recent bankruptcy, and that our boys can make an appearance of some sort in them.
 

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Malo Mart Malo Mart Just remember that Paper Mario was at one point Super Mario RPG 2. There's going to be references here and there. It was literally the same universe at one point.

If you looked more, you'd probably find a lot more references to begin with~
 
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Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...
So far I've been super lucky with this. I love playing as Ridley, K Rool, Joker, and Banjo. With 4 of my top 5 feeling great to play, the odds are in my favor for Geno, the last of my top 5.
 
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Malo Mart Malo Mart Just remember that Paper Mario was at one point Super Mario RPG 2. There's going to be references here and there. It was literally the same universe at one point.

If you looked more, you'd probably find a lot more references to begin with~
Yeah, I know. Just felt like bringing up this example in particular.
 

Firox

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But then they fuse again, and it becomes a full 2-way.
Wait, what? When did they fuse again? I thought the end of the story was Mythra "dying", then Rex reforms her crystal and both magically appear again, but separate. The new title screen even shows the three holding hands separately. Was there more DLC or something I didn't know about? PS: If they did fuse again, that's a pretty depressing step backwards.
 
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Wait, what? When did they fuse again? I thought the end of the story was Mythra "dying", then Rex reforms her crystal and both magically appear again, but separate. The new title screen even shows the three holding hands separately. Was there more DLC or something I didn't know about? PS: If they did fuse again, that's a pretty depressing step backwards.
I was talking about Pneuma. Once they fuse into her don't they stay like that? I haven't played the game so I'm not too sure on this.
 

Firox

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I was talking about Pneuma. Once they fuse into her don't they stay like that? I haven't played the game so I'm not too sure on this.
Oh HO HO! NOW I see. Well then, if you haven't played the game, I won't spoil anything else for you (plus this thread isn't really the place to elaborate any more on this), but yeah, they physically separate at the very end of the game. Hence, the double waifus. Though I'm surprised you knew about the Pneuma thing without playing the game. It's supposed to be a big reveal in the story. I recommend you actually play the game. I'm a stickler about my video games and still gave it a 10/10. Excellent game with lots of hours to sink if you want to. Great story, great combat, great characters. Give it a shot.

Sorry for the random XC2 convo in the middle of the thread. Anywho, how 'bout that Geno, am I right? Hopefully just 2-3 more weeks.
 
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Oh HO HO! NOW I see. Well then, if you haven't played the game, I won't spoil anything else for you (plus this thread isn't really the place to elaborate any more on this), but yeah, they physically separate at the very end of the game. Hence, the double waifus. Though I'm surprised you knew about the Pneuma thing without playing the game. It's supposed to be a big reveal in the story. I recommend you actually play the game. I'm a stickler about my video games and still gave it a 10/10. Excellent game with lots of hours to sink if you want to. Great story, great combat, great characters. Give it a shot.
Ehh, I don't really care all too much about spoilers for XC2, really. I've heard it's a great game, though.

Quite a bit of spoiler talk I see
DUDE, DON'T SPOIL IT! :ultpacman:
 

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I'm actually glad we're on this topic because I don't think I've ever gone into the business logic of my six pack predictions and why they make sense in my eyes. A lot of people seem to think I just go with things because of rumors but, honestly, I think pretty in-depth into things before I lock in an opinion, sometimes to the point of overthinking things. That said, I want to go into my 6 company predictions since January:

Nintendo- Pretty obvious and a big reason why I was harping so hard on the likelihood that 6 would be Nintendo even before Season 2 was officially a thing. Nintendo using it's DLC to promote its own properties is definitely a "no ****" sort of line of thinking.

Square Enix- The history between Nintendo and Square is very interesting. Amazing relationship during the NES and SNES days, creating several games that are still considered the best in the JRPG genre to this day. Square then bounced to Sony starting with Final Fantasy VII and, not surprisingly, Nintendo was PISSED especially when FFVII was deemed an instant classic right off the shelf. In a professional businessman way, even Yamauchi (Nintendo's president until 2002) more or less said that Square Enix could eat his hot salty nuts until the sun exploded and the resulting N64 and GameCube days show why.

The N64 and GameCube are pretty much a desert for good JRPGs (and a big reason why Tales of Symphonia was such a big deal but more on that later). In one console generation Nintendo lost Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to Sony and they were pretty upfront about their bitterness until Iwata started making honest efforts to patch things up with the major third parties that jumped ship. For the sake of brevity, Iwata's incrementalism approach worked and Square and Nintendo were back on good terms. Fast forward to the Switch and now Square is not only porting games like crazy but making the first high quality console JRPGs for Nintendo since the SNES. Needless to say, this is a huge deal.

Based on this, I don't think Nintendo and Square are done yet when it comes to Smash. Like I said, Nintendo now has the first brand new Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Square IPs on a Nintendo console in 20 years. Square pretty much corners the market on JRPGs and a Japanese company like Nintendo wanting them on their team is a no-brainer. Sony no longer has a monopoly on the genre and it's a huge business shift in tone.

Activision/Blizzard- The biggest Western developer in terms of revenue with enough iconic franchises you can name on two hands. Yet another company that wasn't particularly Nintendo loyal and mostly just flung over half assed ports until very recently and the relationship keeps getting better. Franchises like Crash and Overwatch are pretty obvious IPs that you want in your camp but so is the often dismissed mobile Goliath known as Candy Crush. The benefits of strengthening this relationship are about as upfront as you can get.

Namco- Like Ubisoft, Namco is one of the few third parties that's never really left Nintendo and has been one of its stronger partners since the GameCube. The relationship, however, could definitely be better and there's two franchises that Nintendo could definitely benefit from getting more support from: Tales and Tekken. Again, JRPGs and traditional fighting games are two genres that Nintendo often loses to Sony to do netting either or both has very obvious benefits.

Capcom- Capcom is probably the most iconic Japanese game company aside from Nintendo. Capcom has so many iconic IPs that it even flexes this by literally having a franchise called Capcom vs because there's so damn many. Capcom's loyalty to Nintendo, like Square, has a long and complicated history that's only really gotten back to the SNES glory days very recently. I strongly believe that Ryu in Smash 4 was basically Nintendo celebrating Street Fighter, the biggest traditional fighting game franchise, being back in their camp. Nintendo has wrangled over a good number of big Capcom franchises since the N64 days but there's one big prize that people often discount that has been a Sony megaton for almost two decades: Devil May Cry. Like Bayo in Smash 4, Nintendo has also struggled with having "mature" games in their camp forever so getting DMC to join the Nintendo party is definitely worth pursuing.

Microsoft- Nintendo and Microsoft haven't exactly been shy about it. A lot of their working together in the past couple of years has basically been a good ol' holly jolly **** you to Sony. The relationship is definitely quid pro quo up the butt because the two cover each others' weaknesses really well. Microsoft has a hard time appealing to kids and has a laughably bad install base in Asia meanwhile Nintendo's online infrastructure is kind of ass and, until very recently, had a super hard time getting "mature" genres like FPS and Western RPGs. The relationship is still young but the benefits have already been very obvious with plenty of room to grow. This is part of why I see Banjo as merely the beginning because you have two gaming juggernauts that have clicked extremely well in a short time and are both committed to tag-team-teabagging Sony whenever the opportunity comes up.
 

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I'm actually glad we're on this topic because I don't think I've ever gone into the business logic of my six pack predictions and why they make sense in my eyes. A lot of people seem to think I just go with things because of rumors but, honestly, I think pretty in-depth into things before I lock in an opinion, sometimes to the point of overthinking things. That said, I want to go into my 6 company predictions since January:

Nintendo- Pretty obvious and a big reason why I was harping so hard on the likelihood that 6 would be Nintendo even before Season 2 was officially a thing. Nintendo using it's DLC to promote its own properties is definitely a "no ****" sort of line of thinking.

Square Enix- The history between Nintendo and Square is very interesting. Amazing relationship during the NES and SNES days, creating several games that are still considered the best in the JRPG genre to this day. Square then bounced to Sony starting with Final Fantasy VII and, not surprisingly, Nintendo was PISSED especially when FFVII was deemed an instant classic right off the shelf. In a professional businessman way, even Yamauchi (Nintendo's president until 2002) more or less said that Square Enix could eat his hot salty nuts until the sun exploded and the resulting N64 and GameCube days show why.

The N64 and GameCube are pretty much a desert for good JRPGs (and a big reason why Tales of Symphonia was such a big deal but more on that later). In one console generation Nintendo lost Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to Sony and they were pretty upfront about their bitterness until Iwata started making honest efforts to patch things up with the major third parties that jumped ship. For the sake of brevity, Iwata's incrementalism approach worked and Square and Nintendo were back on good terms. Fast forward to the Switch and now Square is not only porting games like crazy but making the first high quality console JRPGs for Nintendo since the SNES. Needless to say, this is a huge deal.

Based on this, I don't think Nintendo and Square are done yet when it comes to Smash. Like I said, Nintendo now has the first brand new Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Square IPs on a Nintendo console in 20 years. Square pretty much corners the market on JRPGs and a Japanese company like Nintendo wanting them on their team is a no-brainer. Sony no longer has a monopoly on the genre and it's a huge business shift in tone.

Activision/Blizzard- The biggest Western developer in terms of revenue with enough iconic franchises you can name on two hands. Yet another company that wasn't particularly Nintendo loyal and mostly just flung over half assed ports until very recently and the relationship keeps getting better. Franchises like Crash and Overwatch are pretty obvious IPs that you want in your camp but so is the often dismissed mobile Goliath known as Candy Crush. The benefits of strengthening this relationship are about as upfront as you can get.

Namco- Like Ubisoft, Namco is one of the few third parties that's never really left Nintendo and has been one of its stronger partners since the GameCube. The relationship, however, could definitely be better and there's two franchises that Nintendo could definitely benefit from getting more support from: Tales and Tekken. Again, JRPGs and traditional fighting games are two genres that Nintendo often loses to Sony to do netting either or both has very obvious benefits.

Capcom- Capcom is probably the most iconic Japanese game company aside from Nintendo. Capcom has so many iconic IPs that it even flexes this by literally having a franchise called Capcom vs because there's so damn many. Capcom's loyalty to Nintendo, like Square, has a long and complicated history that's only really gotten back to the SNES glory days very recently. I strongly believe that Ryu in Smash 4 was basically Nintendo celebrating Street Fighter, the biggest traditional fighting game franchise, being back in their camp. Nintendo has wrangled over a good number of big Capcom franchises since the N64 days but there's one big prize that people often discount that has been a Sony megaton for almost two decades: Devil May Cry. Like Bayo in Smash 4, Nintendo has also struggled with having "mature" games in their camp forever so getting DMC to join the Nintendo party is definitely worth pursuing.

Microsoft- Nintendo and Microsoft haven't exactly been shy about it. A lot of their working together in the past couple of years has basically been a good ol' holly jolly **** you to Sony. The relationship is definitely quid pro quo up the butt because the two cover each others' weaknesses really well. Microsoft has a hard time appealing to kids and has a laughably bad install base in Asia meanwhile Nintendo's online infrastructure is kind of ass and, until very recently, had a super hard time getting "mature" genres like FPS and Western RPGs. The relationship is still young but the benefits have already been very obvious with plenty of room to grow. This is part of why I see Banjo as merely the beginning because you have two gaming juggernauts that have clicked extremely well in a short time and are both committed to tag-team-teabagging Sony whenever the opportunity comes up.
Ubisoft's relationship is also interesting to think about the potential implications of recent things with their chatbot and the Mii Costumes that could potentially hint at something more.
 

Firox

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Microsoft- Nintendo and Microsoft haven't exactly been shy about it. A lot of their working together in the past couple of years has basically been a good ol' holly jolly **** you to Sony. The relationship is definitely quid pro quo up the butt because the two cover each others' weaknesses really well. Microsoft has a hard time appealing to kids and has a laughably bad install base in Asia meanwhile Nintendo's online infrastructure is kind of ass and, until very recently, had a super hard time getting "mature" genres like FPS and Western RPGs. The relationship is still young but the benefits have already been very obvious with plenty of room to grow. This is part of why I see Banjo as merely the beginning because you have two gaming juggernauts that have clicked extremely well in a short time and are both committed to tag-team-teabagging Sony whenever the opportunity comes up.
I find this part the most amusing. Reminds me of the old Aliens VS Predator movie poster:

"No matter who wins, we Sony loses."

-Nintendo and Microsoft
 
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I'm actually glad we're on this topic because I don't think I've ever gone into the business logic of my six pack predictions and why they make sense in my eyes. A lot of people seem to think I just go with things because of rumors but, honestly, I think pretty in-depth into things before I lock in an opinion, sometimes to the point of overthinking things. That said, I want to go into my 6 company predictions since January:

Nintendo- Pretty obvious and a big reason why I was harping so hard on the likelihood that 6 would be Nintendo even before Season 2 was officially a thing. Nintendo using it's DLC to promote its own properties is definitely a "no ****" sort of line of thinking.

Square Enix- The history between Nintendo and Square is very interesting. Amazing relationship during the NES and SNES days, creating several games that are still considered the best in the JRPG genre to this day. Square then bounced to Sony starting with Final Fantasy VII and, not surprisingly, Nintendo was PISSED especially when FFVII was deemed an instant classic right off the shelf. In a professional businessman way, even Yamauchi (Nintendo's president until 2002) more or less said that Square Enix could eat his hot salty nuts until the sun exploded and the resulting N64 and GameCube days show why.

The N64 and GameCube are pretty much a desert for good JRPGs (and a big reason why Tales of Symphonia was such a big deal but more on that later). In one console generation Nintendo lost Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to Sony and they were pretty upfront about their bitterness until Iwata started making honest efforts to patch things up with the major third parties that jumped ship. For the sake of brevity, Iwata's incrementalism approach worked and Square and Nintendo were back on good terms. Fast forward to the Switch and now Square is not only porting games like crazy but making the first high quality console JRPGs for Nintendo since the SNES. Needless to say, this is a huge deal.

Based on this, I don't think Nintendo and Square are done yet when it comes to Smash. Like I said, Nintendo now has the first brand new Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Square IPs on a Nintendo console in 20 years. Square pretty much corners the market on JRPGs and a Japanese company like Nintendo wanting them on their team is a no-brainer. Sony no longer has a monopoly on the genre and it's a huge business shift in tone.

Activision/Blizzard- The biggest Western developer in terms of revenue with enough iconic franchises you can name on two hands. Yet another company that wasn't particularly Nintendo loyal and mostly just flung over half assed ports until very recently and the relationship keeps getting better. Franchises like Crash and Overwatch are pretty obvious IPs that you want in your camp but so is the often dismissed mobile Goliath known as Candy Crush. The benefits of strengthening this relationship are about as upfront as you can get.

Namco- Like Ubisoft, Namco is one of the few third parties that's never really left Nintendo and has been one of its stronger partners since the GameCube. The relationship, however, could definitely be better and there's two franchises that Nintendo could definitely benefit from getting more support from: Tales and Tekken. Again, JRPGs and traditional fighting games are two genres that Nintendo often loses to Sony to do netting either or both has very obvious benefits.

Capcom- Capcom is probably the most iconic Japanese game company aside from Nintendo. Capcom has so many iconic IPs that it even flexes this by literally having a franchise called Capcom vs because there's so damn many. Capcom's loyalty to Nintendo, like Square, has a long and complicated history that's only really gotten back to the SNES glory days very recently. I strongly believe that Ryu in Smash 4 was basically Nintendo celebrating Street Fighter, the biggest traditional fighting game franchise, being back in their camp. Nintendo has wrangled over a good number of big Capcom franchises since the N64 days but there's one big prize that people often discount that has been a Sony megaton for almost two decades: Devil May Cry. Like Bayo in Smash 4, Nintendo has also struggled with having "mature" games in their camp forever so getting DMC to join the Nintendo party is definitely worth pursuing.

Microsoft- Nintendo and Microsoft haven't exactly been shy about it. A lot of their working together in the past couple of years has basically been a good ol' holly jolly **** you to Sony. The relationship is definitely quid pro quo up the butt because the two cover each others' weaknesses really well. Microsoft has a hard time appealing to kids and has a laughably bad install base in Asia meanwhile Nintendo's online infrastructure is kind of ass and, until very recently, had a super hard time getting "mature" genres like FPS and Western RPGs. The relationship is still young but the benefits have already been very obvious with plenty of room to grow. This is part of why I see Banjo as merely the beginning because you have two gaming juggernauts that have clicked extremely well in a short time and are both committed to tag-team-teabagging Sony whenever the opportunity comes up.
But I have a question, do you still believe in the same companies but in the same characters (Lloyd, Dante, Crash, Geno and Master Chief)?
 
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Ubisoft's relationship is also interesting to think about the potential implications of recent things with their chatbot and the Mii Costumes that could potentially hint at something more.
I'm always surprised that Nintendo and Ubisoft are so cool with one another when during the Wii U era, Ubisoft basically said "Screw this I'm outta here" and threw them overboard. Rayman Legends was originally a Wii U exclusive and like a month before launch they decided to hold it hostage for a year while they ported it to other systems since even in the early days they had no faith in the system

I mean, in hindsight it was a smart move, but I'm just really surprised Nintendo let that go when as Fatman pointed out, they stayed mad at Square Enix for YEARS over similar circumstances
 

MattX20

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I'm always surprised that Nintendo and Ubisoft are so cool with one another when during the Wii U era, Ubisoft basically said "Screw this I'm outta here" and threw them overboard. Rayman Legends was originally a Wii U exclusive and like a month before launch they decided to hold it hostage for a year while they ported it to other systems since even in the early days they had no faith in the system

I mean, in hindsight it was a smart move, but I'm just really surprised Nintendo let that go when as Fatman pointed out, they stayed mad at Square Enix for YEARS over similar circumstances
Probably because the Wii U wasn't exactly doing that well across the board, and Ubisoft was not the only 3rd party having issues
 
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I'm always surprised that Nintendo and Ubisoft are so cool with one another when during the Wii U era, Ubisoft basically said "Screw this I'm outta here" and threw them overboard. Rayman Legends was originally a Wii U exclusive and like a month before launch they decided to hold it hostage for a year while they ported it to other systems since even in the early days they had no faith in the system

I mean, in hindsight it was a smart move, but I'm just really surprised Nintendo let that go when as Fatman pointed out, they stayed mad at Square Enix for YEARS over similar circumstances
Probably because the Wii U wasn't exactly doing that well across the board, and Ubisoft was not the only 3rd party having issues
Also Rayman Legends still released on the Wii U whereas FF7 didn't.
 

Griselda

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...If this was back during the ordinary game reveals and it was a little more plausible without the knowledge of the low set number of characters left, I'd kinda like to see a Geno/NiGHTS double reveal. Since they're both otherworldly, rather neglected characters (although not having much in common beyond that, I suppose). The reveal trailer could've been called 'Dreams and Wishes', or something like that.
 
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You know, that reminds me. While I was browsing through the Mario wiki one day, I discovered that "Star Hill" isn't just a location in SMRPG and Mario & Luigi Partners in Time. It turns out that another location in the Mario franchise shares that same name, although it was changed outside of Japan: Shooting Star Summit from the first Paper Mario game.

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I know it's just a tiny detail in the grand scheme of things, but I just find it neat to have this lil bit of connective tissue between the 3 series of Mario RPGs, you know? Goes to show how far SMRPG's DNA really went, lol. Here's to hoping the M&L games can continue on despite Alphadream's recent bankruptcy, and that our boys can make an appearance of some sort in them.
As MoptimusPrime said , PM64 was intended to be SMRPG 2. Hence why we have some really close relations , like the 7 star spirits , a little star helping Peach , who come from an higher place , heck , we have a cloudy local invaded by an intruder , like Nimbus Land and Valentina.
If Nintendo still owned Geno and Mallow... I bet they would have been in a cameo , somewhere.

Also shooting star summit is like , one of the most relaxing Nintendo tunes ever. God I love that game.

But yeah , SMRPG did influencate a lot the other Mario RPGs. I find it especially interesting that Alphadream showed they wanted to use Geno and Mallow again in some way.
I always loved the idea of a Mario and Geno / Luigi and Mallow game. A game where you play 2 campaigns , each brother and old friend getting separated , and living different adventures. It would also lead to new creative moves and situations.
 

MattX20

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As MoptimusPrime said , PM64 was intended to be SMRPG 2. Hence why we have some really close relations , like the 7 star spirits , a little star helping Peach , who come from an higher place , heck , we have a cloudy local invaded by an intruder , like Nimbus Land and Valentina.
If Nintendo still owned Geno and Mallow... I bet they would have been in a cameo , somewhere.

Also shooting star summit is like , one of the most relaxing Nintendo tunes ever. God I love that game.

But yeah , SMRPG did influencate a lot the other Mario RPGs. I find it especially interesting that Alphadream showed they wanted to use Geno and Mallow again in some way.
I always loved the idea of a Mario and Geno / Luigi and Mallow game. A game where you play 2 campaigns , each brother and old friend getting separated , and living different adventures. It would also lead to new creative moves and situations.
Yeah, it makes you wish the Mario RPG characters weren't Square property
 

Fatmanonice

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But I have a question, do you still believe in the same companies but in the same characters (Lloyd, Dante, Crash, Geno and Master Chief)?
Currently, yes. Nothing has really come up to change my thinking since January. Also, I might as well talk about Ubisoft and Tecmo too.

Ubisoft: Ubisoft is amazingly loyal but that may actually be its downside for Smash. When Nintendo's third party support in the N64 all but collapsed, Ubisoft was one of the few that stuck around. Even more impressively, they were pretty much onboard for both the Wii and Wii U, no questions asked. This all said, there really aren't any major Ubisoft series that aren't already in Nintendo's camp in some way except Far Cry, which is a FAR CRY from the Ubisoft series people want in Smash. Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.

Rayman has been a Nintendo loyal franchise since the N64. Rayman is the equivalent of the friend that's willing to drive you to the airport at 5 in the morning on a Saturday. They don't have to do much to prove their loyalty. Nintendo not only including Rayman cameos in the base game of Smash 4 and Ultimate but Miyamoto himself giving Ubisoft full on permission to do a Mario crossover game is proof enough that a fall out anytime soon isn't likely. In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.

Tecmo: Tecmo is an iconic company but it's problem when it comes to Smash is even more so of an issue than Ubisoft: it's loyal to fault in the business context of Smash. Tecmo is yet another company that didn't immediately throw up on its shoes when asked to develop games for the Wii and Wii U and the number of IPs that Nintendo has trusted Tecmo with is pretty damn staggering: Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and even goddamn Pokemon. Beyond this, Nintendo has already secured their most popular series: Warriors, so that battle has long since been won. People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet. All this said, Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo is already about as good as it can get for a third party.
 
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Once the ARMS character is revealed (possibly FP7 too), speculation will be a battleground for the remainder.
More like a bloodshed. Regardless of the 'Nobody took X's slot' argument, there's still only 5 confirmed slots left. Someone else getting in just means that a hopeful now has less opportunities. And if spirits/ATs/Miis FINALLY get deconfirm, it will be all-out war in speculation discussion. I hope IF Geno makes it, he's number 7, just so this board can finally join the K Rool, Banjo, and Erdrick groups in being able to relax and sit on the sidelines while the other groups go at it.
 
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If Springman is in, then I'm gonna say Geno's probably in. I'm about 15% confident Geno will get in, but if Springman gets in I'll instantly be like 90% confident, especially if his mii costume is still MIA. If there are any other upgrades, I'm gonna guess it'd be either Isaac or Waluigi, with Rex being the biggest and most obvious choice imo. Rayman has very little popularity in Japan, and I just don't see it happening for the poor guy.
 

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unfortunately, it’s actually the other way around

He said it would in fact be a standard, big direct, and took his L the following day when it turned out to be a Mini (basically, he admitted he was wrong)

he’s still surprisingly on the dot for an insider in these super strict days where leaks and information are few.

Even though, i'm not sure if this SMRPG retweet stuff means anything. Jeff just likes SMRPG I think. I do admit the random tweets are more interesting than the virtual console tweet.
With the Direct mini situation, it could be that Grubb just assumed that the Direct was a full-on 30-40 minute show, as telling someone a Direct is coming would not automatically point to it being a mini. Another thing to mention is that the Direct "mini" was 28 minutes long, which actually blows a lot of previous minis out of the water and puts it closer to a regular Direct if anything. It could be that Nintendo decided to change it to a mini to garner the surprise of a shadowdrop.
 
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