Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

PatPrime

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Currently, yes. Nothing has really come up to change my thinking since January. Also, I might as well talk about Ubisoft and Tecmo too.

Ubisoft: Ubisoft is amazingly loyal but that may actually be its downside for Smash. When Nintendo's third party support in the N64 all but collapsed, Ubisoft was one of the few that stuck around. Even more impressively, they were pretty much onboard for both the Wii and Wii U, no questions asked. This all said, there really aren't any major Ubisoft series that aren't already in Nintendo's camp in some way except Far Cry, which is a FAR CRY from the Ubisoft series people want in Smash. Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.

Rayman has been a Nintendo loyal franchise since the N64. Rayman is the equivalent of the friend that's willing to drive you to the airport at 5 in the morning on a Saturday. They don't have to do much to prove their loyalty. Nintendo not only including Rayman cameos in the base game of Smash 4 and Ultimate but Miyamoto himself giving Ubisoft full on permission to do a Mario crossover game is proof enough that a fall out anytime soon isn't likely. In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.

Tecmo: Tecmo is an iconic company but it's problem when it comes to Smash is even more so of an issue than Ubisoft: it's loyal to fault in the business context of Smash. Tecmo is yet another company that didn't immediately throw up on its shoes when asked to develop games for the Wii and Wii U and the number of IPs that Nintendo has trusted Tecmo with is pretty damn staggering: Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and even goddamn Pokemon. Beyond this, Nintendo has already secured their most popular series: Warriors, so that battle has long since been won. People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet. All this said, Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo is already about as good as it can get for a third party.
I'm gonna guess the whole Ubisoft trademark thing and other strange things with Ubisoft don't really change your opinion then?
 
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People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet. All this said, Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo is already about as good as it can get for a third party.
I don't think that's an issue. Look at Terry. Sure he appears in the KOF series, but he is by no means the star of those games (i would even dare to argue that Hayabusa is more important to DOA than Terry is to KOF plot-wise, as he is the central character in Dead or Alive 2 and the canonical champion of said game's tournament while Terry is barely relevant in the Orochi, NESTS and Ash sagas of KOF) His addition in those games is more of a result of the charater's legacy as a whole (originally KOF started more as an excuse to have Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting characters in the same game in its own continuity, and after the series evolved they still decided to keep him due to his popularity)

His series, Fatal Fury, hasn't gotten a new installment since Garou: Mark of the Wolves in 1999. The series has been dormant before Melee's release, even Banjo has gotten 3 games after the year 2000. Terry is bascially MR. SNK in terms of Smash representation, and i have no reason to believe that Ryu can't do the same for Tecmo, plus his series actually survived into the 21st century. He even appears in Dynasty Warrior games as a special guest not once, not twice, but 3 times as playable. He is Mr. Tecmo in the eyes of many, waifu syndrome notwithstanding.
 

axel_

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Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.
In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.
I mean, when Sakurai and Nintendo add:

- Joker, despite P5 not coming on to Switch (and it never will)
- Banjo, despite no new game for the forseeable future (if we do it'll probably be an Xbox exclusive)
- Terry, despite no recent KOF being on the Switch (if they wanted to do an SNK promotion pick they would've done Nakoruru or Haohmaru for SamSho)

I don't think business incentive is that big of a factor against Rayman.
Honestly with how conspicuous Ubisoft has been with Smash ever since Byleth's reveal on every front, I think my current predictions have Rayman as close to a lock as I can reasonably get.
 
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Fatmanonice

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I'm gonna guess the whole Ubisoft trademark thing and other strange things with Ubisoft don't really change your opinion then?
No because nothing has come up in regards to Smash with Ubisoft. With the 5 third parties I'm predicting, other stuff has come up: Mii costumes, leaked Amiibo release dates, major announcements that are being heavily foreshadowed, leaked documents, etc that support them being involved in Season 2 in a major way.

Also, looking at my calendar, if Nintendo sticks with the second Tuesday of June E3 tradition for Smash, Geno could be revealed on 6/9/2020. Nice.
 
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No because nothing has come up in regards to Smash with Ubisoft. With the 5 third parties I'm predicting, other stuff has come up: Mii costumes, leaked Amiibo release dates, major announcements that are being heavily foreshadowed, leaked documents, etc that support them being involved in Season 2 in a major way.

Also, looking at my calendar, if Nintendo sticks with the second Tuesday of June E3 tradition for Smash, Geno could be revealed on 6/9/2020. Nice.
NICE
 
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Don't worry , he's going to be a bonus echo :4pacman:

---

Also , I just remembered that , for some reason... Star Hill is a location of Mario and Luigi Partners in Time. After the Geno cameo in SS , this kind of stuff truly make me wonder if Alphadream statements about wanting to use Geno and Mallow were a more serious consideration than I thought.
While Alphadream is kind of... Well , let's say that Bowser took them in their underground freezer , I wonder if Nintendo ever hired some Alphadream employees. After all , there wasn't too many (around 50 I think ?).
So if we're very lucky... Maybe Nintendo could try their hand at a Mario and Luigi , and these ex-Alphadream employees could take the opportunity to ask Nintendo if they can ask SE to use Geno and Mallow ? While unlikely , it would be a way to bring them back.
View attachment 272418
https://nintendoeverything.com/alph...no-and-mallow-could-be-used-in-a-future-game/
That's not even the only big SMRPG reference Partners in Time has, as you get the first Cobalt Star Shard in the game from a SMRPG styled question mark box.
You can see it in this video from 6:54 to about 8:05.
 
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You know, at the very least this drought has been a lot more tolerable than the wait between Terry and Byleth. Sure, we've basically only learned the franchise the next character comes from, and actual worthwhile Nintendo news has been scarce since September, I mean, the only real big things since then have been Clubhouse Games, which is out in 2 weeks, and Origami King, which depending on who you ask is either something they are ""cautiously optimistic"" about or something they see as the continued mismanagement and death of what was once one of Nintendo's most consistently good set of franchises (Gee, can you guess which one I fall under?). But at least we aren't dealing with endless debates about goddamn "de-confirmation lists" and insiders switching around names everyday refusing to just say who the hell they think/were told it is. Sure it's less interesting but at least we can focus arguments on more "real evidence" and theories rather than just having 2 people dictate the entire discussion.

Of course now that I say this some guy on Resetera or Gamefaqs is going to say "Oh by the way Min-Min is in lol" and I just start banging my head into my desk again.
 
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You know, at the very least this drought has been a lot more tolerable than the wait between Terry and Byleth. Sure, we've basically only learned the franchise the next character comes from, and actual worthwhile Nintendo news has been scarce since September, I mean, the only real big things since then have been Clubhouse Games, which is out in 2 weeks, and Origami King, which depending on who you ask is either something they are ""cautiously optimistic"" about or something they see as the continued mismanagement and death of what was once one of Nintendo's most consistently good set of franchises (Gee, can you guess which one I fall under?). But at least we aren't dealing with endless debates about goddamn "de-confirmation lists" and insiders switching around names everyday refusing to just say who the hell they think/were told it is. Sure it's less interesting but at least we can focus arguments on more "real evidence" and theories rather than just having 2 people dictate the entire discussion.

Of course now that I say this some guy on Resetera or Gamefaqs is going to say "Oh by the way Min-Min is in lol" and I just start banging my head into my desk again.
Agreed. Unlike back in November through March, we know generally who the next fighter is and when they're dropping, so our expectations are kept in check. New figher from ARMS, info and release coming this June.
 
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You know, at the very least this drought has been a lot more tolerable than the wait between Terry and Byleth. Sure, we've basically only learned the franchise the next character comes from, and actual worthwhile Nintendo news has been scarce since September, I mean, the only real big things since then have been Clubhouse Games, which is out in 2 weeks, and Origami King, which depending on who you ask is either something they are ""cautiously optimistic"" about or something they see as the continued mismanagement and death of what was once one of Nintendo's most consistently good set of franchises (Gee, can you guess which one I fall under?). But at least we aren't dealing with endless debates about goddamn "de-confirmation lists" and insiders switching around names everyday refusing to just say who the hell they think/were told it is. Sure it's less interesting but at least we can focus arguments on more "real evidence" and theories rather than just having 2 people dictate the entire discussion.

Of course now that I say this some guy on Resetera or Gamefaqs is going to say "Oh by the way Min-Min is in lol" and I just start banging my head into my desk again.
Helps that people have been dehyped and discouraged at this point. Everyone was riding high going into number 5 after getting Banjo, Hero, Joker and Terry. The sky was the limit and even insiders couldn't answer. It really felt like it could be any dream pick.

Then it wasn't. Wow, it wasn't.

So now people are on the other side of speculation, cautious to what's coming next in fear of being burned again.

Expect this to happen again by number 11. Unless its a massive name, they will be despised.
 
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People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet.
You know I recall a lot of insiders who kept saying that Hayabusa was in the pass; and I feel like maybe it's because they heard TECMO was part of the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they helped with Three Houses
 
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Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now
The last game in the series was Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z which was released in 2014. Besides that. Besides that, Ryu Hayabusa is a playable character in DOA6 which was released in 2019, so he’s still being used.
 

MattX20

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The worst cycle of speculation was December through June of last year. The toxic leak bandwagoning just made it difficult to deal with, and it made me want the Dragon Quest heroes to be deconfirmed entirely out of spite because of the crap they dealt towards Geno or anyone else owned by Square. I'm just grateful we're not reliving that, even the gap between November and January was a huge improvement comparatively even if the resulting reveal was a dud for most
 

Beandini

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The worst cycle of speculation was December through June of last year. The toxic leak bandwagoning just made it difficult to deal with, and it made me want the Dragon Quest heroes to be deconfirmed entirely out of spite because of the crap they dealt towards Geno or anyone else owned by Square. I'm just grateful we're not reliving that, even the gap between November and January was a huge improvement comparatively even if the resulting reveal was a dud for most
I agree. I hated these so called, “Erdrick fans.” When Erdrick was gaining steam, I remember a lot of people insisted Geno was done for. Everyone was expecting him to be a costume returning with Erdrick and he was missing. Geno was heard from insiders from seven Squares back in August 2018 and he got heard again back in July I assume along with Mallow and Smithy costumes. Pretty satisfying, if you ask me.
 
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TriggerX

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Currently, yes. Nothing has really come up to change my thinking since January. Also, I might as well talk about Ubisoft and Tecmo too.

Ubisoft: Ubisoft is amazingly loyal but that may actually be its downside for Smash. When Nintendo's third party support in the N64 all but collapsed, Ubisoft was one of the few that stuck around. Even more impressively, they were pretty much onboard for both the Wii and Wii U, no questions asked. This all said, there really aren't any major Ubisoft series that aren't already in Nintendo's camp in some way except Far Cry, which is a FAR CRY from the Ubisoft series people want in Smash. Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.

Rayman has been a Nintendo loyal franchise since the N64. Rayman is the equivalent of the friend that's willing to drive you to the airport at 5 in the morning on a Saturday. They don't have to do much to prove their loyalty. Nintendo not only including Rayman cameos in the base game of Smash 4 and Ultimate but Miyamoto himself giving Ubisoft full on permission to do a Mario crossover game is proof enough that a fall out anytime soon isn't likely. In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.

Tecmo: Tecmo is an iconic company but it's problem when it comes to Smash is even more so of an issue than Ubisoft: it's loyal to fault in the business context of Smash. Tecmo is yet another company that didn't immediately throw up on its shoes when asked to develop games for the Wii and Wii U and the number of IPs that Nintendo has trusted Tecmo with is pretty damn staggering: Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and even goddamn Pokemon. Beyond this, Nintendo has already secured their most popular series: Warriors, so that battle has long since been won. People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet. All this said, Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo is already about as good as it can get for a third party.
Idk, its hard to count rayman out because there isn't much incentive. I mean this whole thread is dedicated to a character that would pretty much fall into that same category.
As much as Id rather see other characters besides Rayman, he is a popular character in general.

Overall though Nintendo's relationship's with most companies seem positive. Even their relationship with Square seems like any issues they had are all in the past. IDK, just appears to be a difference in hardware specs, as well as support that leaves Nintendo with less content.

I dont personally think that nintendo needs the same kind of crazy specs sony and microsoft are pushing out. However, I do think they would be able to draw more content in from big publishers if they gave them an incentive like working with Nintendo's own characters.
We'd probably get more interesting games that way as well if a company like Rockstar was given creative leeway to work with the mario universe.
 
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I think that Rayman main problem (and for the mayority of Western characters) is their lack of popularity at Japan, where the character is non existent. As I said sometime before, we don’t know if either people from NOA or NOE helps with FP selection or only from NOJ people. I think that with FP1 elections they made something like “NOJ selects 4 slot and NOA/NOE can decide for 1 slot”.

With this new FP, I think they will repeat the same, 5 slots decided by NOJ and 1 from NOA or NOE.
 
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The worst cycle of speculation was December through June of last year. The toxic leak bandwagoning just made it difficult to deal with, and it made me want the Dragon Quest heroes to be deconfirmed entirely out of spite because of the crap they dealt towards Geno or anyone else owned by Square. I'm just grateful we're not reliving that, even the gap between November and January was a huge improvement comparatively even if the resulting reveal was a dud for most
I was honestly fine with it, though I'll admit I was more into the whole Banjo vs Steve shebang, and if you can't tell by my profile pic I kinda won either way with whoever the Sqaure character ended up being. Everything felt a bit more open then compared to now where we are basically in the endgame, a good chunk of the potential playing field has either been soft or hard deconfirmed, and we pretty much spend every other week wondering if anyone is going to get spirited.



I don't know if I've talked about this before, but Rayman and Hayabusa are both in this weird situation where both franchises are more on hold (Ubisoft lets Micheal Ancel work on Rayman whenever he feels like, and he's said he wants to do Rayman 4 once he finishes BGE2 in 2025, and Team Ninja has expressed that they'd like to do more with Ninja Gaiden again) than dead but are still generally reduced to re releases, mobile games, and cameo appearances. I'd hardly call either of them relevant or "hot properties"

  • You are saying this in the G E N O thread?
Ok, I get people don't like the relevancy argument that much, but actually look at the third-party franchises Nintendo picked for Pass 1.
  • Persona has grown from a somewhat niche JRPG series to one of the most popular in one game. Red Hot.
  • Dragon Quest is being mega-pushed by Square right now, especially trying to build popularity in the west, good spinoffs, first new main game in years doing remarkably well, the franchise is doing great.
  • SNK is on a massive comeback streak, pulling an anti-Konami and leaving Pachinko hell to actually make games again. KOFXIV, SNK Heroines, Samurai Showdown and KOFXV being announced, a bunch of crossover appearences, an endless amount of rerelreases, collections, and mini-consoles, it's pretty obvious they are trying to build back up their name and are doing that pretty well. (Don't even try to pull the whole "Fatal Fury is dead so Terry doesn't count" when his stage is based on the modern KOF games, only about 30% of his Music tracks are from Fatal Fury, only 4/11 of his Spirits were from Fatal Fury, and none of his Mii Costumes are. He might be listed under it, but it's pretty obvious he's here to represent all of SNK, not just his home franchise.)
The only exception to this is obviously Banjo, who just so happens to be one of the most requested characters of all time for Smash Bros, like top 10 overall, top 3 for this cycle of speculation, easily. He's here because nobody would shut up about him and Nintendo chose to listen. Nintendo likes buzz, fulfilling giant fan requests does that. But so does adding in a unexpected character from one of the most critically acclaimed games of the generation. Or from one of the most storied and legendary game franchises in gaming history. Or, yes, adding in a character from a popular, critically acclaimed recent Switch game (WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?). Or they might use Smash as a way to give a floundering franchise legs it might otherwise never get.

Obviously there can be overlap between what fans want and what Nintendo sees as marketable and buzz worthy (hell, at this point I'd argue it's pretty hard to choose big third party characters and franchises without having some kind of Smash overlap, it almost feels like they were trying to not appeal to us with the first pass.) I don't see the Smash fanbase going through the pass without getting a bone thrown specifically at us (hopefully in the shape of a star possessed wooden doll) but at the same time it's mostly up to Nintendo's whim, and they seem a lot more focused on getting what they view as big names and companies rather than appealing to us specifically.
 
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I agree. I hated these so called, “Erdrick fans.” When Erdrick was gaining steam, I remember a lot of people insisted Geno was done for. Everyone was expecting him to be a costume returning with Erdrick and he was missing. Geno was heard from insiders from seven Squares back in August and he got heard again back in July I assume along with Mallow and Smithy costumes. Pretty satisfying, if you ask me.
It was heared since August of 2018
I think that Rayman main problem (and for the mayority of Western characters) is their lack of popularity at Japan, where the character is non existent. As I said sometime before, we don’t know if either people from NOA or NOE helps with FP selection or only from NOJ people. I think that with FP1 elections they made something like “NOJ selects 4 slot and NOA/NOE can decide for 1 slot”.

With this new FP, I think they will repeat the same, 5 slots decided by NOJ and 1 from NOA or NOE.
2 things:
1- Crash is insanely popular in Japan
2- I think all the characters were choose in nintendo of america
 
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Looks like our friend Montage, released a teaser for his big project at the end of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CP0RlXAn_M

Also, I'm gonna do a final predictions for Fighter's Pass 2, next week! Don't miss it! ;)
What if montage was given proof that Geno is coming to Smash and he's finally unveiling the project he's been working on regarding him..?

...

Nah...

...

Unless..?

All jokes aside, very excited to see this big video he has planned.
 
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Currently, yes. Nothing has really come up to change my thinking since January. Also, I might as well talk about Ubisoft and Tecmo too.

Ubisoft: Ubisoft is amazingly loyal but that may actually be its downside for Smash. When Nintendo's third party support in the N64 all but collapsed, Ubisoft was one of the few that stuck around. Even more impressively, they were pretty much onboard for both the Wii and Wii U, no questions asked. This all said, there really aren't any major Ubisoft series that aren't already in Nintendo's camp in some way except Far Cry, which is a FAR CRY from the Ubisoft series people want in Smash. Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.

Rayman has been a Nintendo loyal franchise since the N64. Rayman is the equivalent of the friend that's willing to drive you to the airport at 5 in the morning on a Saturday. They don't have to do much to prove their loyalty. Nintendo not only including Rayman cameos in the base game of Smash 4 and Ultimate but Miyamoto himself giving Ubisoft full on permission to do a Mario crossover game is proof enough that a fall out anytime soon isn't likely. In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.
I'm actually glad we're on this topic because I don't think I've ever gone into the business logic of my six pack predictions and why they make sense in my eyes. A lot of people seem to think I just go with things because of rumors but, honestly, I think pretty in-depth into things before I lock in an opinion, sometimes to the point of overthinking things. That said, I want to go into my 6 company predictions since January:

Nintendo- Pretty obvious and a big reason why I was harping so hard on the likelihood that 6 would be Nintendo even before Season 2 was officially a thing. Nintendo using it's DLC to promote its own properties is definitely a "no ****" sort of line of thinking.

Square Enix- The history between Nintendo and Square is very interesting. Amazing relationship during the NES and SNES days, creating several games that are still considered the best in the JRPG genre to this day. Square then bounced to Sony starting with Final Fantasy VII and, not surprisingly, Nintendo was PISSED especially when FFVII was deemed an instant classic right off the shelf. In a professional businessman way, even Yamauchi (Nintendo's president until 2002) more or less said that Square Enix could eat his hot salty nuts until the sun exploded and the resulting N64 and GameCube days show why.

The N64 and GameCube are pretty much a desert for good JRPGs (and a big reason why Tales of Symphonia was such a big deal but more on that later). In one console generation Nintendo lost Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to Sony and they were pretty upfront about their bitterness until Iwata started making honest efforts to patch things up with the major third parties that jumped ship. For the sake of brevity, Iwata's incrementalism approach worked and Square and Nintendo were back on good terms. Fast forward to the Switch and now Square is not only porting games like crazy but making the first high quality console JRPGs for Nintendo since the SNES. Needless to say, this is a huge deal.

Based on this, I don't think Nintendo and Square are done yet when it comes to Smash. Like I said, Nintendo now has the first brand new Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Square IPs on a Nintendo console in 20 years. Square pretty much corners the market on JRPGs and a Japanese company like Nintendo wanting them on their team is a no-brainer. Sony no longer has a monopoly on the genre and it's a huge business shift in tone.

Activision/Blizzard- The biggest Western developer in terms of revenue with enough iconic franchises you can name on two hands. Yet another company that wasn't particularly Nintendo loyal and mostly just flung over half assed ports until very recently and the relationship keeps getting better. Franchises like Crash and Overwatch are pretty obvious IPs that you want in your camp but so is the often dismissed mobile Goliath known as Candy Crush. The benefits of strengthening this relationship are about as upfront as you can get.

Namco- Like Ubisoft, Namco is one of the few third parties that's never really left Nintendo and has been one of its stronger partners since the GameCube. The relationship, however, could definitely be better and there's two franchises that Nintendo could definitely benefit from getting more support from: Tales and Tekken. Again, JRPGs and traditional fighting games are two genres that Nintendo often loses to Sony to do netting either or both has very obvious benefits.

Capcom- Capcom is probably the most iconic Japanese game company aside from Nintendo. Capcom has so many iconic IPs that it even flexes this by literally having a franchise called Capcom vs because there's so damn many. Capcom's loyalty to Nintendo, like Square, has a long and complicated history that's only really gotten back to the SNES glory days very recently. I strongly believe that Ryu in Smash 4 was basically Nintendo celebrating Street Fighter, the biggest traditional fighting game franchise, being back in their camp. Nintendo has wrangled over a good number of big Capcom franchises since the N64 days but there's one big prize that people often discount that has been a Sony megaton for almost two decades: Devil May Cry. Like Bayo in Smash 4, Nintendo has also struggled with having "mature" games in their camp forever so getting DMC to join the Nintendo party is definitely worth pursuing.

Microsoft- Nintendo and Microsoft haven't exactly been shy about it. A lot of their working together in the past couple of years has basically been a good ol' holly jolly **** you to Sony. The relationship is definitely quid pro quo up the butt because the two cover each others' weaknesses really well. Microsoft has a hard time appealing to kids and has a laughably bad install base in Asia meanwhile Nintendo's online infrastructure is kind of ass and, until very recently, had a super hard time getting "mature" genres like FPS and Western RPGs. The relationship is still young but the benefits have already been very obvious with plenty of room to grow. This is part of why I see Banjo as merely the beginning because you have two gaming juggernauts that have clicked extremely well in a short time and are both committed to tag-team-teabagging Sony whenever the opportunity comes up.
I get what you're stating, but I feel like stating that "companies can be too loyal, which hurts their chances to get into Smash" is pretty faulty. Sure, Square Enix and Nintendo had a pretty bad relationship during the N64-Gamecube era; but by the time the Wii rolled around, their relationship was ok. For example, TWEWY which was published by Square came out in 2007 and DQ 9 came out in 2009. Those were both for the DS, because let's be honest Nintendo hardware sucks in terms of graphics, which is why we don't see some of the technically demanding games like FF13/DMC on the Wii. But we saw plenty of support less demanding titles like Mega-Man and Ace Attorney on the DS.

That support continued for the 3DS for the most part, Ace Attorney continued and Square ported all the playstation exclusive games like DQ 7 and 8 to the 3DS. Square also created the Bravely series, Atlus made SMT IV and SMT IV Apocalypse. But again, most of the technically demanding games pretty much went straight to PS4/Xbox One. The Wii U was a failure, so no wonder why devs decided to skip on it.

Then you have the Switch, which is not a failure in terms of sales; and it can run ports of PS2/PS3 games just fine (for the most part). Now we start seeing some of the games that the Wii couldn't run make their way to the Switch; the DMC ports, Tales of Vesperia, FF10, FF12, etc. Square also released the Definitive Edition of DQ11, a good chunk of FF ports, and Nintendo also helped publish TWEWY Final Remix. Obviously we won't see games like FF7R or Tomb Raider on a Nintendo console anytime soon due to technical limitations, but their output has been nothing short of stellar. Really outside of something like the KH remasters, Square has released most of their big games post 2000 on the Switch in some way (unless the Switch can't run it).

Namco has published the Dark Souls remaster, the Dragonball games, and Tales of Vesperia. Most of the games they've skipped out on porting are again too technically demanding for the Switch. I doubt we're getting Tekken 7 or Tales of Arise due to that reason.

Currently the Switch is doing so well, that no "big" publisher is going to skip out on the Switch, unless it's impossible to port it. For example a Crash game is rumored to be in development as a PS5 launch title (exclusivity deals aside) chances are we won't see it coming on the Switch simply because of technical demand. The same could be said of something like Diablo 4 from Blizzard. Outside of something like DQ 12, chances are that most of these series are going to skip out on the Switch. It's not because of loyalty, but rather it's technically unfeasible for them to improve graphics and then port it to the Switch.

Don't get me wrong improving relationships between companies is probably factored into 3rd part fighter choices, but most of the companies you've listed already have a "good enough" relationship with Nintendo. If Square/Activision/Microsoft/Namco/Capcom get 1 DLC fighter, they're not going to suddenly start magically supporting Nintendo even more, simply because a ton of money lies in the other consoles.

Really only smaller companies will change their output in any noticeable way. A ton of times, these companies don't really have the resources to port their games to the Switch; and it's a risky proposition to actually port a niche series to an entirely new system. If relationships were a big factor in deciding which 3rd part companies to put in Smash, we'd be seeing more companies like SNK making their way into Smash. So we'd be seeing companies like NIS, Level-5, Spike Chunsoft, and Falcom getting reps in Smash.
 
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Looks like our friend Montage, released a teaser for his big project at the end of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CP0RlXAn_M

Also, I'm gonna do a final predictions for Fighter's Pass 2, next week! Don't miss it! ;)
'This video is coming soon!'
-Geno releases in Fall as character 7-
'This video is delayed until I am done playing as Geno in Ultimate.'
-Video releases in December 2029.-
 
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Also, looking at my calendar, if Nintendo sticks with the second Tuesday of June E3 tradition for Smash, Geno could be revealed on 6/9/2020. Nice.
Oh my gosh, Geno getting released on my birthday, what a heck of a birthday present.
Actually, now that you mention that, I wonder if the Smash presentation will abide by the originally planned E3 2020 date. If Nintendo is going to go about releasing announcements weekly, I’m interested to know how this will effect Smash’s announcement schedule, since I’m unsure of how it operates in comparison to other Nintendo announcements
 

Fatmanonice

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On the topic of "too loyal", part of my argument is that Smash is honestly kind of a business opportunity and it seems like Nintendo has largely agreed to certain characters because they want better relationships with certain companies or at least certain IPs. Square Enix is definitely the best example. Nintendo probably signed off on Cloud in early 2015 and think about the enormous shift in the relationship between Nintendo and Square since then. Like I said in my earlier post, Nintendo is now getting buried in Square support that isn't just quick cash grabs. Companies like Tecmo and Ubisoft haven't really been an issue for getting exclusives from. Those bridges were built a long time ago and probably aren't going anywhere.
 

link2702

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so I just decided of something new to think about while we wait..

So i'm sure everyone here who's played SMRPG remembers a certain trollish treasure chest put in the game in the forest maze. Anyone else here spend years after the games release speculating on if there was something special about it?

Back when the internet was still in it's infancy (relative to now), there were always rumors about ridiculous secrets in Nintendo 64 games, but rarely about snes ones.

Except smrpg. It had a few, and almost all revolved around that chest. I remember reading things like "before you hit it, you have to collect all frog coins in the game(at the time I was young and though there was a set limit to frog coins that could be found) " or you had to collect everything else in the game first, beat smithy at a incredibly low level, beat it in a certain time limit, etc., and then you'd get some super crazy piece of equipment, or unlock some really neat hidden room.

Of course all these things were bogus, and that chest was really just a way for the developers to mess with players. But still, It was one of the few SNES game "mysteries" that left me always searching for an "answer", similar to all the crazy rumors in n64 games such as L is real, how to get the triforce, etc.


Anyone else remember any crazy rumors or "secrets" for smrpg similar to those for the troll chest?
 
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Sigran101

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Currently, yes. Nothing has really come up to change my thinking since January. Also, I might as well talk about Ubisoft and Tecmo too.

Ubisoft: Ubisoft is amazingly loyal but that may actually be its downside for Smash. When Nintendo's third party support in the N64 all but collapsed, Ubisoft was one of the few that stuck around. Even more impressively, they were pretty much onboard for both the Wii and Wii U, no questions asked. This all said, there really aren't any major Ubisoft series that aren't already in Nintendo's camp in some way except Far Cry, which is a FAR CRY from the Ubisoft series people want in Smash. Rayman is the runaway Ubisoft favorite but, from a business perspective, there's not much incentive.

Rayman has been a Nintendo loyal franchise since the N64. Rayman is the equivalent of the friend that's willing to drive you to the airport at 5 in the morning on a Saturday. They don't have to do much to prove their loyalty. Nintendo not only including Rayman cameos in the base game of Smash 4 and Ultimate but Miyamoto himself giving Ubisoft full on permission to do a Mario crossover game is proof enough that a fall out anytime soon isn't likely. In short, their relationship is rock solid and there's really no incentive to sweeten the deal with playable Rayman in Smash, again, especially in the light that Nintendo has okayed them to make official Mario games. Would it be a nice gesture? Yes but that's about it.

Tecmo: Tecmo is an iconic company but it's problem when it comes to Smash is even more so of an issue than Ubisoft: it's loyal to fault in the business context of Smash. Tecmo is yet another company that didn't immediately throw up on its shoes when asked to develop games for the Wii and Wii U and the number of IPs that Nintendo has trusted Tecmo with is pretty damn staggering: Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and even goddamn Pokemon. Beyond this, Nintendo has already secured their most popular series: Warriors, so that battle has long since been won. People often bring up Ryu Hayabusa because he's a super iconic character but Ninja Gaiden has been on hiatus for roughly 8 years now and even Tecmo flat out admitted earlier this year that there were no major future plans for it yet. All this said, Tecmo's relationship with Nintendo is already about as good as it can get for a third party.
Your comments on Ubisoft only make sense under the assumption that the sole reason for the character selection is improving company relationships. Sonic and MegaMan at the very least got in because of being close to Nintendo. Until Joker, "close to Nintendo" was one of the criteria people looked at most, and the closer the character was, the more likely they were. The reasons you gave for why Rayman wouldn't get in are the exact reasons I think he would.
 

Fatmanonice

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Your comments on Ubisoft only make sense under the assumption that the sole reason for the character selection is improving company relationships. Sonic and MegaMan at the very least got in because of being close to Nintendo. Until Joker, "close to Nintendo" was one of the criteria people looked at most, and the closer the character was, the more likely they were. The reasons you gave for why Rayman wouldn't get in are the exact reasons I think he would.
I don't disagree on those two but they were different in a few ways. Sonic and Megaman were pretty much #1 and #2 for most requested third party characters ever and, like you said, had already committed to the footwork by the time they were added. This "footwork" was also in closer proximity to their addition to Smash, Sonic getting a lot of exclusives on the GBA and Wii and Megaman technically on the GBA and DS. Since these two, we've mostly had characters that have lacked a lot of recent exclusives, even with very iconic characters like Simon. This is why I think most of the third party characters additions have been strategic, either to build a stronger bond with certain companies or wrangle certain series to Nintendo's side.
 
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