Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

If Jeff Grubb continues to quote Super Mario RPG or allude to it more, it might be worth keeping an eye on

 

[Griselda]

I want a Valentina mii hat. There have been many other ideas shared for mii outfits that might come with Geno, but I just thought of that bird she's wearing as a wig and I think it'd be a good fit.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Here's some food for thought. Lots of people think we are bound to get a Namco character since we only have Pacman and they did help develop the game.
However, what if we actually don't get one? After all, Pacman seems to be a character that represents Namco as a whole and not just Pacman himself when looking at his taunts and music. I can see Namco bringing back Mii Costumes alongside an unrelated fighter.

Edit: Not saying I don't think we will get one. I'm just bringing up the possibility. If I had to pick, I would go with Nightmare.

It's certainly possible. I think that kind of sucks for Llyod and Heihachi fanbases especially as well as other Namco fanbases. At that point, why are their Mii costumes missing from base game and FP1? It's the same situation that we are in really. I would hate to see any fanbase hold out hope this long only to be left out or thrown in as a Mii costume with any other rep let alone a completely unrelated one. I mean that was rough to see Isaac and Waluigi have their fanbases dragged down when their assist trophies were saved till the end.

On another note, I'm seeing some Octolings talk but if bonuses are really happening couldn't they just be a bonus? I mean I will not pay the same price for an echo fighter that I would for a unique character and I know other people would feel similarly and I agree with points about following a first party character with another first party character (unless it's a bonus) is just not going to sell the pass. That being said, I'm of the opinion we will get neither Octolings nor bonus fighters.

 

[MattX20]

Hmm...did we discuss victory animations?

 

[Vector Victor]

Hmm...did we discuss victory animations?

At the very least, I feel his victory theme will be the Star Get! theme but the part where Mario grabs it and it flies off to the status screen. Easily get a 7 second victory with that without speeding up or slowing it down.

 

[Deleted member]

Jeff Grubb’s tweets are also interesting. Referencing Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Could it be him just mentioning the game possibly but yes it could be more we’ll see in time.

 

[JarBear]

Hmm...did we discuss victory animations?

Moves from this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XMyxcRqmano

 

[Polarthief]

I want a Valentina mii hat. There have been many other ideas shared for mii outfits that might come with Geno, but I just thought of that bird she's wearing as a wig and I think it'd be a good fit.

Yes, but only if I get the bird that I used to think was Valentina's actual face.

... I swear I was the worst at deciphering sprites as a kid. Geno with the big-ass nose and shades was probably my worst one. I also vividly remember one for Phoenix Wright's Mr. Monkey in case 1-3...

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Hmm...did we discuss victory animations?

-The classic victory pose
- Geno taking a piece of the Star Road (Preferably the Green for being the one from the battle with Bowyer)
-Geno leaving his body while Mario, Peach, Bowser and Mallow celebrate

 

[MattX20]

-The classic victory pose
- Geno taking a piece of the Star Road (Preferably the Green for being the one from the battle with Bowyer)
-Geno leaving his body while Mario, Peach, Bowser and Mallow celebrate

Not bad, though I imagine the third one would be a group shot with the others rather than leaving his body

 

[Fatmanonice]

Polarthief Looking at the translations, Sakurai predominantly talks about 6 character sets/packs so there's arguably wiggle room because, like I've been saying, if we get bonus characters it will probably be like Plant and Corrin: a character and maybe a music track or two. Basically they would be a *premium* premium costume. I'm not expecting more than the 6 packs. For example, if we get Waluigi, I'm not expecting a Waluigi stage, music, or his own set of Mii costumes. He'd basically be Plant: the Second Dumbing and I think people would be okay with that. Like Plant and all the echoes, I think they would be part of other announcements, either in someone else's trailer (Dark Pit, Lucina, Richter, and Ken) or just shown without cinematic flair (Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus).

 

[Polarthief]

Polarthief Looking at the translations, Sakurai predominantly talks about 6 character sets/packs so there's arguably wiggle room because, like I've been saying, if we get bonus characters it will probably be like Plant and Corrin: a character and maybe a music track or two. Basically they would be a *premium* premium costume. I'm not expecting more than the 6 packs. For example, if we get Waluigi, I'm not expecting a Waluigi stage, music, or his own set of Mii costumes. He'd basically be Plant: the Second Dumbing and I think people would be okay with that. Like Plant and all the echoes, I think they would be part of other announcements, either in someone else's trailer (Dark Pit, Lucina, Richter, and Ken) or just shown without cinematic flair (Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus).

I get that, but how it was worded, it was made to seem like "these 6. No more characters besides them", not challenger packs, but that's just me, unless I'm remembering it wrong.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I get that, but how it was worded, it was made to seem like "these 6. No more characters besides them", not challenger packs, but that's just me, unless I'm remembering it wrong.

It's been up for nearly 2 months. The best I can think of is that it means "this is our plans at this time, and we also are nearly done with the game" without outright saying "yes, it's only this". But that's from the original article with a poor Google Translation. I can ask Push how accurate it is, though. Later on, since I think he's in a different timezone.

However, I'm pretty sure it's a hard "6 only". I wasn't sure for a while due to a lack of a full-out translation. It didn't help there were inconsistent ones too.

 

[SSGuy]

Jeff Grubb’s tweets are also interesting. Referencing Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Could it be him just mentioning the game possibly but yes it could be more we’ll see in time.

I can't seem to find anything referencing SMRPG at all. I must be blind or not seeing anything.

 

[Polarthief]

I can't seem to find anything referencing SMRPG at all. I must be blind or not seeing anything.

The one today:

Looks like you've got yourself a tough road ahead. Good luck!

— Super Mario RPG (@smrpg_ebooks) May 21, 2020

The one on the 15th:

This isn't good at all!

— Super Mario RPG (@smrpg_ebooks) May 15, 2020

These just feel too generic that they could mean anything TBH.

Edit: This one from the 14th is the most interesting, actually:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MattX20]

I can't seem to find anything referencing SMRPG at all. I must be blind or not seeing anything.

Look back a page and you'll see the quotes

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Hmm...did we discuss victory animations?

Pose 1: Geno emerges from a pipe and does the standard turn and nod, just like the level-up screen

Pose 2: The seven stars all orbit around Geno before he strikes a pose and they all take positions around him

Pose 3: Geno swishes his cloak and turns, looking over his shoulder at the player as his name comes up

 

[Enigma735]

Jeff Grubb really tweeted about Super Mario RPG? In that case, I think he could be hinting at something Mario RPG related coming soon most likely Geno for Smash. He knows people look to him as an insider so the fact he is quoting things from Mario RPG is pretty suspicious. He could be teasing something. We must wait and see

 

[MisterMike]

Jeff Grubb really tweeted about Super Mario RPG? In that case, I think he could be hinting at something Mario RPG related coming soon most likely Geno for Smash. He knows people look to him as an insider so the fact he is quoting things from Mario RPG is pretty suspicious. He could be teasing something. We must wait and see

As fun as it is to theorize that this guy is being a Teasing Thomas about a potential piece of driftwood floating it's way unto Smash, I really don't think he's actually hinting at anything. Occam's Razor tells me that he's just posting SMRPG quotes because... well, it's a very quotable game. For example:

"The only good Smithy Gang minion is a dead one." - Mario Mario, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, 1996

 

[link2702]

Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...

 

[Lagguino]

-The classic victory pose
- Geno taking a piece of the Star Road (Preferably the Green for being the one from the battle with Bowyer)
-Geno leaving his body while Mario, Peach, Bowser and Mallow celebrate

To piggyback off the star thing my original idea was make 1 star correspond to what player he was. (Red = P1, Blue = P2, Yellow = P3, Etc.) but then i realized that it wouldn't make sense because there's 8 players (unless geno gets a star that fits with that color but i highly doubt it.) So how about replacing it with Him (or mallow) finding a froggy coin.

 

[Heoj]

Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...

I dont really care much for moveset, as if geno ends up feeling horrible to play as as well as bottom tier then imma force myself to play as him

 

[MisterMike]

Alright, it's done!

 

[PatPrime]

Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...

Not the biggest supporter so I probably wont really play him if I don't like his playstyle but I will still be happy for his inclusion regardless. Let's say his playstyle is similar to Mega Man's. I really don't like playing as him but he is alright character in my book. I care about Geno more than Mega Man, so I would be happier to see him in the game because I like Geno but most importantly, I wanna see you guys succeed and catch everyone else offguard and see their reactions.

 

[Droodle]

Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...

I don't think Geno's playstyle would suit me that well. I imagine him playing close to Mega-Man, and primarily being a projectile based character, which I don't really like that much. That's not to say that there aren't zoner type characters I don't like, if Geno plays more like a setup zoner like BOTW Link or Duck Hunt I'd probably be fine with it.

The funny thing is that my most wanted Square character (even more so then Geno) is Neku; and chances are he'd have the exact same play-style problems if he were to get in, though I do think if Neku does get in he has a good chance to turn out to be a setup based character in comparison to Geno.

If he's fun, I'd probably have him as a secondary (unless he turns out to be REALLY fun) in which case I can see him being a main. I tend to prefer really mechanically unique characters like Shulk and Hero, so hopefully Geno brings in some cool mechanics. I can't see him bringing timed-hits, especially when Ultimate's online is so trash (unless the timing is generous, and the advantage isn't broken).

 

[SSGuy]

I don't think Geno's playstyle would suit me that well. I imagine him playing close to Mega-Man, and primarily being a projectile based character, which I don't really like that much. That's not to say that there aren't zoner type characters I don't like, if Geno plays more like a setup zoner like BOTW Link or Duck Hunt I'd probably be fine with it.

The funny thing is that my most wanted Square character (even more so then Geno) is Neku; and chances are he'd have the exact same play-style problems if he were to get in, though I do think if Neku does get in he has a good chance to turn out to be a setup based character in comparison to Geno.

If he's fun, I'd probably have him as a secondary (unless he turns out to be REALLY fun) in which case I can see him being a main. I tend to prefer really mechanically unique characters like Shulk and Hero, so hopefully Geno brings in some cool mechanics. I can't see him bringing timed-hits, especially when Ultimate's online is so trash (unless the timing is generous, and the advantage isn't broken).

I think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised if we truly do see Geno in this game. I think straight up he is going to be a hybrid of Shiek and Robin. As someone who puts so much time into Mega Man in 4 and Ultimate, I don't see Geno playing anything like Mega Man or Mii Gunner at all.

 

[axel_]

I don't think Geno's playstyle would suit me that well. I imagine him playing close to Mega-Man, and primarily being a projectile based character, which I don't really like that much. That's not to say that there aren't zoner type characters I don't like, if Geno plays more like a setup zoner like BOTW Link or Duck Hunt I'd probably be fine with it.

The funny thing is that my most wanted Square character (even more so then Geno) is Neku; and chances are he'd have the exact same play-style problems if he were to get in, though I do think if Neku does get in he has a good chance to turn out to be a setup based character in comparison to Geno.

If he's fun, I'd probably have him as a secondary (unless he turns out to be REALLY fun) in which case I can see him being a main. I tend to prefer really mechanically unique characters like Shulk and Hero, so hopefully Geno brings in some cool mechanics. I can't see him bringing timed-hits, especially when Ultimate's online is so trash (unless the timing is generous, and the advantage isn't broken).

I actually think Geno would be closer to a glass cannon like Mewtwo. Sure, his projectiles would be super powerful, but they'd be too costly on time to use frequently and enemies could easily abuse that to evade and exploit Geno's low defense.

 

[StarLight42]

He was also the guy who explicitly said the direct wouldn't be a mini, right? Or was that someone else? Either way, take every insider's words with a grain of salt, even if they said "GENO FOR SURE YOU GUYS".

On that note, GENO FOR SURE YOU GUYS.

unfortunately, it’s actually the other way around

He said it would in fact be a standard, big direct, and took his L the following day when it turned out to be a Mini (basically, he admitted he was wrong)

he’s still surprisingly on the dot for an insider in these super strict days where leaks and information are few.

Even though, i'm not sure if this SMRPG retweet stuff means anything. Jeff just likes SMRPG I think. I do admit the random tweets are more interesting than the virtual console tweet.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Nintendo has been pushing for Splatoon and ARMS stuff ... it does make me think there could be some annoncmenets for new games for both those platforms. (Splatoon being more popular than ARMS)

Granted ... it does make me worry about the ARMS rep if it is indeed a completely NEW character from the potentially NEW game. Hmmm.

I honestly think it's not going to happen.
"hey look , it could be anyooooone from AAAAAAARMS , look at all these coooool characters !... SIKE ! IT'S NONE OF THEM ! IT'S MC SPAGHETTI LEG MAN ! GOT YA !"

I think ARMS 2 is very likely... But it doesn't mean that we'll get an entirely new cast. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of ARMS 1 characters are coming back for that sequel. At most they could get slight redesign.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-195#post-23349070 I found the source of the DLC statement. To quote; "Smash Ultimate's DLC wasn't a thing at the time around Famitsu column vol. 546 January 11th 2018, and it was planned without the developers will. (p165)"

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/26/another-round-of-fun-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-546/ Note that this source does not have everything translated compared to Ayumi's post. But it's the same book.

Basically, DLC was not intended from the start.

 

[Loliko YnT]

[QUOTE="Moptimus Prime, post: 23943060, member: 844"
Basically, DLC was not intended from the start.[/QUOTE]

Actually , this statement make me wonder if Piranha Plant was truly intended to be base game or not.

But otherwise , this isn't surprising when you think about it : Sakurai is the kind of man to always work on a Smash game thinking it's the last he'll ever do. So him not bothering about DLC during development of the main game is normal.
It may also explain why Joker took quite some time to come out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually , this statement make me wonder if Piranha Plant was truly intended to be base game or not.

Most likely not, to be honest. We don't have enough timeframes of content to really be clear if it was or not. Also, since Hero was failed to be gotten for base, who knows what happened with him. He would've been attempted to be licensed in 2015, super early on. That's over 2 years of nothing. So "held off for DLC" is definitely not on Sakurai's end. Nintendo and SE could've discussed the idea in secret, though.

https://www.siliconera.com/masahiro...imates-hero-dlc-director-philosophy-and-more/ Okay, ignore some of that. The "was planned for base" appears to be a misunderstanding of what it says here. All it says is it took a while to agree to multiple heroes. But Slime was not shunned in any way either. It wasn't asked for more specifically, and Sakurai would've done it if that was his only choice.

But otherwise , this isn't surprising when you think about it : Sakurai is the kind of man to always work on a Smash game thinking it's the last he'll ever do. So him not bothering about DLC during development of the main game is normal.
It may also explain why Joker took quite some time to come out.

Pretty much. But yeah, this goes back to what I've said before. Not all content from Smash Ultimate could've been licensed during the same time as Smash 4. Especially some DLC. It's pretty clear the 3rd party costumes are "DLC only", so it's most likely any proposals to reuse them were rejected for base. It's also possible the costumes were not gotten very early on and were licensed wayyyyyyyy later, but if so, probably right after Nintendo declared DLC.

I'll note PushDustIn can also confirm(though note the links above aren't entirely full/perfect translations) is that DLC was definitely not confirmed from the start.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Not much new to really discuss yet apparently. Maybe a hint that Jeff knows something? but that's all....


So I'll recycle a subject I brought up in the past again cuz, well...hell I've ran out of anythign really new to discuss...


This is mostly a question for any new Geno supporters here but.....how will you react if when he's revealed...his playstyle is just awful for you personally?

I bring this up again since shulk was my most wanted Newcomer in 4, but when i sat down to play as him, I found I couldn't stand his playstyle. The constant switching of monado arts, and the awkward and often narrow(uair and dair...) hitboxes on some moves just didn't feel fun for me.
Banjo was *kinda* the same for me in ultimate, though I tolerate his moveset even though I don't find it much fun.....


I do kinda worry this will happen for me for Geno as well. The difference here is I may force myself to use him regardless. Even if every time I play as him i hate everything about how he plays. I've waited just way too long for this moment...

I honestly do worry about this. A timed hit mechanic sounds way too complex for a casual player like me to handle. But Ridley is the only other character that has ever really rivaled Geno in terms of how much I wanted them to get into Smash and I was and still am so stoked he's actually in even though I can't play him for the life of me it's still fun to watch others play him masterfully. I'll feel the same about Geno and I'll still try to play him regardless if I actually am any good with him. The only difference is that, at least with Ridley, I could turn to Dark Samus to have a nice unexpected Metroid character I really wanted and could actually play.

I honestly think it's not going to happen.
"hey look , it could be anyooooone from AAAAAAARMS , look at all these coooool characters !... SIKE ! IT'S NONE OF THEM ! IT'S MC SPAGHETTI LEG MAN ! GOT YA !"

I think ARMS 2 is very likely... But it doesn't mean that we'll get an entirely new cast. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of ARMS 1 characters are coming back for that sequel. At most they could get slight redesign.

Aw I really wanted Mc Spaghetti Leg Man the most...

 

[Loliko YnT]

Aw I really wanted Mc Spaghetti Leg Man the most...

Don't worry , he's going to be a bonus echo

---

Also , I just remembered that , for some reason... Star Hill is a location of Mario and Luigi Partners in Time. After the Geno cameo in SS , this kind of stuff truly make me wonder if Alphadream statements about wanting to use Geno and Mallow were a more serious consideration than I thought.
While Alphadream is kind of... Well , let's say that Bowser took them in their underground freezer , I wonder if Nintendo ever hired some Alphadream employees. After all , there wasn't too many (around 50 I think ?).
So if we're very lucky... Maybe Nintendo could try their hand at a Mario and Luigi , and these ex-Alphadream employees could take the opportunity to ask Nintendo if they can ask SE to use Geno and Mallow ? While unlikely , it would be a way to bring them back.

https://nintendoeverything.com/alph...no-and-mallow-could-be-used-in-a-future-game/

 

[Enigma735]

As fun as it is to theorize that this guy is being a Teasing Thomas about a potential piece of driftwood floating it's way unto Smash, I really don't think he's actually hinting at anything. Occam's Razor tells me that he's just posting SMRPG quotes because... well, it's a very quotable game. For example:

"The only good Smithy Gang minion is a dead one." - Mario Mario, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, 1996

Good point. I still think it could possibly be a hint though with how much he has been quoting that game, but we must wait and see. I will admit, I'm probably reaching a little bit

 

[Fatmanonice]

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-195#post-23349070 I found the source of the DLC statement. To quote; "Smash Ultimate's DLC wasn't a thing at the time around Famitsu column vol. 546 January 11th 2018, and it was planned without the developers will. (p165)"

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/26/another-round-of-fun-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-546/ Note that this source does not have everything translated compared to Ayumi's post. But it's the same book.

Basically, DLC was not intended from the start.

This is yet another reason why I think bonus characters are definitely a possibility and why, if they are, they most likely will be first party. Point blank: if Nintendo wants it done, it gets done. We've technically seen this three times already in Ultimate:

-Struggled with figuring out how to make Ridley a playable character for years. Pretty decent evidence that Nintendo hard pushed Sakurai to figure it out based on his Smash Ballot results.

-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.

-Sakurai has already low-key implied that he was heavily pushed by Nintendo to do an ARMS character.

Although never outright said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how we wound up Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus too, all three being characters he's rejected in the past.

That's the thing about all this, Nintendo respects Sakurai as a developer but Sakurai has not so subtly repeatedly implied that Nintendo doesn't ask him if he wants to do certain characters, they ask him if he can. This also puts an interesting perspective on Plant because, even if it was a goofy bonus character, Nintendo still wanted it in and it happened. This is also why I strongly doubt ARMS will be the last first party character in Ultimate, especially with Nintendo being painfully aware that getting the rights to this many characters again will be borderline if not totally impossible in the future. TL;DR: if Nintendo wants bonus characters, they're going to happen and we have enough precedent to suggest that they likely do.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is yet another reason why I think bonus characters are definitely a possibility and why, if they are, they most likely will be first party. Point blank: if Nintendo wants it done, it gets done. We've technically seen this three times already in Ultimate:

Except Sakurai wouldn't be making this statement if Nintendo didn't approve it. So no, I don't think they're happening. We have a clear thing. 6 and that's it.

-Struggled with figuring out how to make Ridley a playable character for years. Pretty decent evidence that Nintendo hard pushed Sakurai to figure it out based on his Smash Ballot results.

What serious evidence here? Cause Sakurai himself wanted to please the fans and he used the ballot for suggestions. You need to give evidence in these kind of cases.

-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.

I don't see how this correlates very well. Of course they pushed some characters. They chose all of the DLC bar PP. It makes sense. Each one is going to work well in their own way. To promote some games or get people want to buy characters cause they're major popular choices. Or already in the spotlight. It's business at the end of the day.

-Sakurai has already low-key implied that he was heavily pushed by Nintendo to do an ARMS character.

Not low-key. It's outright said. Nintendo chose all of Pass 2 as well. Where are you getting the idea it's a remote implication?

Although never outright said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how we wound up Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus too, all three being characters he's rejected in the past.

...Only Chrom was rejected. Where are you getting this crazy idea Dark Samus and Daisy were too beforehand? Being an AT does not mean rejected. There's nothing pointing to Daisy here. Please source this.

That's the thing about all this, Nintendo respects Sakurai as a developer but Sakurai has not so subtly repeatedly implied that Nintendo doesn't ask him if he wants to do certain characters, they ask him if he can. This also puts an interesting perspective on Plant because, even if it was a goofy bonus character, Nintendo still wanted it in and it happened. This is also why I strongly doubt ARMS will be the last first party character in Ultimate, especially with Nintendo being painfully aware that getting the rights to this many characters again will be borderline if not totally impossible in the future. TL;DR: if Nintendo wants bonus characters, they're going to happen and we have enough precedent to suggest that they likely do.

Actually, the updated interview I saw is that they suggest a character. I was wrong in how forced it was.

Sakurai however, realistically, isn't going to reject one because it's not their "personal choice". That's not the point behind his job. They're his boss. If the character can't work, that makes more sense to reject them.

So no, I don't think Bonus Characters are happening either. Sakurai's statement also applies equally for Nintendo. They are aware of what he said, and wants him to say accurate stuff too. Everything he says matters to them, and reflects on their company. There's a reason he can't explain why he rejected some ideas. He needs to keep good with tons of companies. Notice how he never said why Geno didn't work out in Brawl? That's because what he says could reflect poorly on SE and/or Nintendo. This is bad for business. Trust also means keeping things to yourself.

Ridley's only official claim is "ballot". Same with Richter, Simon, and King K. Rool. In addition to that, Dark Samus and Chrom are implied to be ballot-related too(Daisy probably as well), as all 3 are for the fans overall. Please source them before I can take a lot of these points as more than your personal theory. Since you're talking about evidence throughout it, I want some sources on that, basically.

Edited it a bit for typos and it sounded more antagonistic than I intended. Sorry about that.

https://sourcegaming.info/2019/09/11/sakurai-talks-more-about-smash-ultimate-dlc-development/ "First, again, the fighter lineup is basically decided by Nintendo. Naturally since they’re confident in me, they would consult me each time asking, “Do you know whether or not you could develop this character?” If the request is unreasonable, I can potentially refuse them." It's really clear he isn't forced either. It's clear they communicate well. My guess is read you an outdated article or something and came to the conclusion Nintendo is forcing Sakurai to do so. I do admit I made that argument in the past, so maybe that's what you saw. It's incorrect, and I apologize for spreading misinformation earlier.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

This is yet another reason why I think bonus characters are definitely a possibility and why, if they are, they most likely will be first party. Point blank: if Nintendo wants it done, it gets done. We've technically seen this three times already in Ultimate:

-Struggled with figuring out how to make Ridley a playable character for years. Pretty decent evidence that Nintendo hard pushed Sakurai to figure it out based on his Smash Ballot results.

-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.

-Sakurai has already low-key implied that he was heavily pushed by Nintendo to do an ARMS character.

Although never outright said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is how we wound up Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus too, all three being characters he's rejected in the past.

That's the thing about all this, Nintendo respects Sakurai as a developer but Sakurai has not so subtly repeatedly implied that Nintendo doesn't ask him if he wants to do certain characters, they ask him if he can. This also puts an interesting perspective on Plant because, even if it was a goofy bonus character, Nintendo still wanted it in and it happened. This is also why I strongly doubt ARMS will be the last first party character in Ultimate, especially with Nintendo being painfully aware that getting the rights to this many characters again will be borderline if not totally impossible in the future. TL;DR: if Nintendo wants bonus characters, they're going to happen and we have enough precedent to suggest that they likely do.

Now i have a theory, what if Rex is a bonus? In that way the second of three rumored nintendo fighter will be in, they will please the Xenoblade fans and Shill XC:DE

 

[MattX20]

If we do get bonus characters, they will be first party almost assuredly so. The question ultimately becomes, which characters? In my opinion, they would go for characters that at most were spirits, and Dixie Kong technically still counts because only her hat was used and not a full blown costume, and I know she gets a fair amount of requests still. Geno though will either be or not be in the Fighter Pass, and is less likely as a bonus

 

[Vector Victor]

-Already thought there were too many sword characters and Fire Emblem characters in Smash. Nintendo said "**** your feelings" and heavily pushed Byleth. Truth be told, they basically did this with Corrin in Smash 4 too but we all convinced ourselves that Nintendo wouldn't do it again.

And my fear is that Nintendo will do that AGAIN.