Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Glitch-EGamer]

Can someone please make a poggers Geno image so we can use it as avatars on Discord or Smashboards if/when he gets in?

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Yeah about that.

Does anyone really take Leaky Pandy seriously? I can't remember the last time that user ever got something right.

I think he have never got something right

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Polarthief , I went through your list and noticed that you didn't even include the biggest thing in Geno's favor: spirit battles can be altered to suit the DLC an individual purchases. Cuphead's spirit battle is a Red Mega Man (if the DLC isn't bought) and uses jazzy music from Smash's massive ost. However, if you have the DLC, it replaces him with the Mii Gunner wearing the Cuphead costume and replaces the music with Floral Fury.

I know people shut down the idea by saying "it's just a mii costume" but they never stop and realize that this "mii costume" requires a completely seperate chain of code to work and isn't just placed over Mega Man's. It's replacing the entire character, not just adding a costume over the original. It's easily one of the biggest pieces of evidence that justifies, at the very least, the concept of a playable Geno.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Polarthief , I went through your list and noticed that you didn't even include the biggest thing in Geno's favor: spirit battles can be altered to suit the DLC an individual purchases. Cuphead's spirit battle changes from a Red Mega Man (if the DLC isn't bought) and uses jazzy music from Smash's massive ost. However, if you have the DLC, it replaces him with the Mii Gunner wearing the Cuphead costume and replaces the music with Floral Fury.

I know people shut down the idea by saying "it's just a mii costume" but they never stop and realize that this "mii costume" requires a completely seperate chain of code to work and isn't just placed over Mega Man's. It's replacing the entire character, not just adding a costume over the original.

When Cuphead can get an extra spirit battle but you have to stick with an Isaac wig.
*Sad Ryo Sakazaki noises*

 

[MattX20]

At any rate, we don't have to wait too much longer. Less than a month left before all is laid out on the table

 

[Polarthief]

Honestly, I'm just way too dang tired today from cleaning, packing, and moving stuff, so I don't have it in me to do anything else tonight.

Spoiler

Calling the footage "clean" is pretty generous. It was recorded with a phone and it's borderline "potato quality"... unless you meant the quality of the models, in which case that's a fair point.

But here's the thing, you're expecting this to be proven false by having someone somehow replicate it accurately enough without us being able to get a good enough look to do so. Pretty sure it's hard to replicate anything that people can't see properly.

Of course modders would make mistakes when the thing they have to replicate isn't fully shown (aka being able to see the thing from up close at enough angles) and recorded with a phone, which can mess up with things like color saturation regardless of recording quality.

To expect a clean enough replica under these conditions from modders are pretty high expectations.

Of course, you're free to deny this argument if you want. I just want to point out that modding isn't really an easy thing to do.


Because this is literally what Nintendo always does?

Leaking footage is essentially copyright infringment, and Nintendo really cares about their contracts. Byleth's male VA was completely changed primarly because Chris Niosi broke his NDA, so they're definitely not the kind to take something like a big leak kindly.

Pretty much any legit Nintendo leak that gets shared on YouTube and other video services get taken out because it's, y'know, not legal to do so?


I'll just give the main gist of it.

Sakurai went out of his way with Lucina's inclusion in Smash 4 to explain that even the slightest of differences is worth making someone go from a mere alternate skin to a full-blown character slot.

The idea I've brought up is similar; characters with very similar moveset, but have different properties or mechanics here and there to make them functionally different characters that play very differently.

Pretty much like the characters in ARMS, only those ones are less apparent because every character has the same moveset, so the differences are in mobility, jump height and unique abilities.


I'm not part of the dev team, so answering that question is pretty much impossible.

But if I had to make a speculated guess, it's likely so that he gets moves other than whip and whip and, of course, whip, in order for his moveset to feel less basic and generic.

Richter just happens to have a lot potential abilities that can help fill the gaps, so some of his abilities were implimented.

It also helps that the overall core gameplay across all Belmonts is the same; use whip, use items, rinse and repeat. They play similarly in their games, so it doesn't feel too strange.


The only things missing from a purely NES Castlevania moveset are the dagger, which is basically unneeded because of the Cross, and a crouching version of the forward tilt, which would look exactly the same, except he's crouching.

The moveset is very faithful to the good ol' NES games. Problem is that there really aren't a lot of moves Simon does beyond using his whip and various items, a problem the Richter moves really help with.

...which I realize you could use to say Min Min's kicks could be one of the moves. There you go, a free counter.


Spring Man with three or more jumps feels so wrong because he's supposed to be a boxer, not have some kind of aerial prowess.

Ribbon Girl with the high percent boost feels so wrong because she's supposed to be mixing you up with her multiple jumps and fast falls.

This isn't who either of these characters are. And it doesn't feel like it's a good way to properly fill gaps in an ARMS moveset.

Sakurai does characters masterfully, as you said, because he knows which boundaries to cross and which ones not to cross for something to feel faithful. And as someone who played a lot of ARMS, I can definitely say that Spring Man with an extra jump feels very off. Two is fine because everyone gets at least two in Smash, but more than that just feels like I'm not playing Spring Man anymore.

The ARMS is a fair point. I personally think the devs would stick to the default three a character comes with, but it's a fair point.

Alright, here's a better question that you'll probably get.

What if Geno was added, but half his moveset is Mallow's moves, so Mallow happens to be an alt. Would that feel right? Would it feel right to see Geno do marshmallow stuff, would it feel right for Mallow to have Geno Whirl?


Except Seven Squares isn't just a matter of time.

It was specifically for the Square character that Vergeben and other leakers were informed about back in 2018.

So to say Seven Squares is an argument in favor of Geno would be implying that he was decided to be added in the game, at the absolute latest, on the same month Ultimate released.

And I very much doubt that Geno as a Fighters Pass 2 character was decided that soon.

It's not irrelevant because of how long ago it is. It's irrelevant because it was for a completely different thing that's unrelated to the second Pass.

Tomorrow.

Polarthief , I went through your list and noticed that you didn't even include the biggest thing in Geno's favor: spirit battles can be altered to suit the DLC an individual purchases. Cuphead's spirit battle is a Red Mega Man (if the DLC isn't bought) and uses jazzy music from Smash's massive ost. However, if you have the DLC, it replaces him with the Mii Gunner wearing the Cuphead costume and replaces the music with Floral Fury.

I know people shut down the idea by saying "it's just a mii costume" but they never stop and realize that this "mii costume" requires a completely seperate chain of code to work and isn't just placed over Mega Man's. It's replacing the entire character, not just adding a costume over the original. It's easily one of the biggest pieces of evidence that justifies, at the very least, the concept of a playable Geno.

Also tomorrow.
*thumbsup* Have a good night everyone.

 

[Deleted member]

The Pikmin 3 port, Super Mario 3D World Deluxe and Super Mario 3D remasters should be announced within the coming weeks.

should be fun the we got the ARMS presentation.

Looks like we are getting into a steady drip of news regardless finally.

 

[Sigran101]

Before replying to anything, I won't argue against stuff that's just stars aligning (yes, made the same pun again, deal with it )

Polar's recognizing that these are potentially coincidences, so that's fair. No need to debate for those.

Spoiler

Calling the footage "clean" is pretty generous. It was recorded with a phone and it's borderline "potato quality"... unless you meant the quality of the models, in which case that's a fair point.

But here's the thing, you're expecting this to be proven false by having someone somehow replicate it accurately enough without us being able to get a good enough look to do so. Pretty sure it's hard to replicate anything that people can't see properly.

Of course modders would make mistakes when the thing they have to replicate isn't fully shown (aka being able to see the thing from up close at enough angles) and recorded with a phone, which can mess up with things like color saturation regardless of recording quality.

To expect a clean enough replica under these conditions from modders are pretty high expectations.

Of course, you're free to deny this argument if you want. I just want to point out that modding isn't really an easy thing to do.


Because this is literally what Nintendo always does?

Leaking footage is essentially copyright infringment, and Nintendo really cares about their contracts. Byleth's male VA was completely changed primarly because Chris Niosi broke his NDA, so they're definitely not the kind to take something like a big leak kindly.

Pretty much any legit Nintendo leak that gets shared on YouTube and other video services get taken out because it's, y'know, not legal to do so?


I'll just give the main gist of it.

Sakurai went out of his way with Lucina's inclusion in Smash 4 to explain that even the slightest of differences is worth making someone go from a mere alternate skin to a full-blown character slot.

The idea I've brought up is similar; characters with very similar moveset, but have different properties or mechanics here and there to make them functionally different characters that play very differently.

Pretty much like the characters in ARMS, only those ones are less apparent because every character has the same moveset, so the differences are in mobility, jump height and unique abilities.


I'm not part of the dev team, so answering that question is pretty much impossible.

But if I had to make a speculated guess, it's likely so that he gets moves other than whip and whip and, of course, whip, in order for his moveset to feel less basic and generic.

Richter just happens to have a lot potential abilities that can help fill the gaps, so some of his abilities were implimented.

It also helps that the overall core gameplay across all Belmonts is the same; use whip, use items, rinse and repeat. They play similarly in their games, so it doesn't feel too strange.


The only things missing from a purely NES Castlevania moveset are the dagger, which is basically unneeded because of the Cross, and a crouching version of the forward tilt, which would look exactly the same, except he's crouching.

The moveset is very faithful to the good ol' NES games. Problem is that there really aren't a lot of moves Simon does beyond using his whip and various items, a problem the Richter moves really help with.

...which I realize you could use to say Min Min's kicks could be one of the moves. There you go, a free counter.


Spring Man with three or more jumps feels so wrong because he's supposed to be a boxer, not have some kind of aerial prowess.

Ribbon Girl with the high percent boost feels so wrong because she's supposed to be mixing you up with her multiple jumps and fast falls.

This isn't who either of these characters are. And it doesn't feel like it's a good way to properly fill gaps in an ARMS moveset.

Sakurai does characters masterfully, as you said, because he knows which boundaries to cross and which ones not to cross for something to feel faithful. And as someone who played a lot of ARMS, I can definitely say that Spring Man with an extra jump feels very off. Two is fine because everyone gets at least two in Smash, but more than that just feels like I'm not playing Spring Man anymore.

The ARMS is a fair point. I personally think the devs would stick to the default three a character comes with, but it's a fair point.

Alright, here's a better question that you'll probably get.

What if Geno was added, but half his moveset is Mallow's moves, so Mallow happens to be an alt. Would that feel right? Would it feel right to see Geno do marshmallow stuff, would it feel right for Mallow to have Geno Whirl?


Except Seven Squares isn't just a matter of time.

It was specifically for the Square character that Vergeben and other leakers were informed about back in 2018.

So to say Seven Squares is an argument in favor of Geno would be implying that he was decided to be added in the game, at the absolute latest, on the same month Ultimate released.

And I very much doubt that Geno as a Fighters Pass 2 character was decided that soon.

It's not irrelevant because of how long ago it is. It's irrelevant because it was for a completely different thing that's unrelated to the second Pass.

It's not just that they haven't completely replicated the Mii hats, but they haven't been able to make anything near the same quality. No one is asking for a perfect recreation, just something that shows this level of work can be done by modders.

As far as the NDA thing, the Ken leak was not taken down until after he was officially revealed. I think Nintendo learned that deleting stuff confirms it's validity.

While I agree that the ARMS characters don't work as alts, Geno and Mallow is a terrible comparison. They are not even remotely similar. The ARMS characters at least all have common moves and some of them have similar builds, so it's more reasonable than that.

I do agree though that the Seven Squares thing is 100% irrelevant. Leakbait for Hero does nothing for current speculation.


Thanks again for disagreeing respectfully and bringing actual discussion instead of just detracting!

 

[Springwood Slasher]

The Pikmin 3 port, Super Mario 3D World Deluxe and Super Mario 3D remasters should be announced within the coming weeks.

should be fun the we got the ARMS presentation.

Looks like we are getting into a steady drip of news regardless finally.

I’m too excited for all of these ports. Could you imagine if we got a “GE-MIX” of all these ports? Where you could play as Geno in all of them? Geno 64, Geno Sunshine, Geno GALAXY. Come on, that last one prints money for being so on brand!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

While I agree that the ARMS characters don't work as alts, Geno and Mallow is a terrible comparison. They are not even remotely similar. The ARMS characters at least all have common moves and some of them have similar builds, so it's more reasonable than that.

It is admiteddly a bit of an exaggerated example, but it's still a similar enough idea, even if dialed up to 11.

Shotos were a better example, but Polar said he didn't play Street Fighter, so that didn't work at all at getting my point across lol

It's not just that they haven't completely replicated the Mii hats, but they haven't been able to make anything near the same quality. No one is asking for a perfect recreation, just something that shows this level of work can be done by modders.

Fair enough, I guess.

As far as the NDA thing, the Ken leak was not taken down until after he was officially revealed. I think Nintendo learned that deleting stuff confirms it's validity.

EDIT: Nevermind because of Moptimus' reply below lol

Thanks again for disagreeing respectfully and bringing actual discussion instead of just detracting!

I'm Canadian. Being nice is literally in my blood

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

4chan removes any leaks in due time. Ken Leak was not taken down by Nintendo. It just went down naturally. So that means nothing. It got reposted a lot when it naturally got erased. Nintendo never once acted against 4chan. So the claim needs a lot more evidence, especially as Nintendo doesn't even pay attention to 4chan either.

In addition, Nintendo cannot force 4chan to do anything of note without threatening to outright sue them or shut down the website. Any random person can post without an account. It's purely anonymous. This also means they cannot track the user to find out where the NDA is. They also don't pay attention to the site anyway. They do pay attention to Youtube, because stuff goes viral. This is how they find out about these kind of leaks. They only have ever removed a Youtube leak at best, but never a 4chan one. With Youtube, they can track who the person is due to the website design, and sue/fire/arrest the leaker if they're the one who broke NDA, or find out who actually broke the NDA through the user. 4chan doesn't allow for that, so taking action there is worthless. In addition, a lot of stuff on 4chan naturally gets deleted over time, and anybody can repost it. Nintendo cannot do anything.

It's a massive Apple and Steak comparison in how different a situation they are.

Also, no. There have been multiple Cacomallow remakes that are actually really damn good quality compared to the leak. The original leak is very bad quality too. There was never a good quality one at any point overall with that in mind.

Besides, yes, the fact they refuse to take it down on Youtube is hard proof it has to be fake. There's no world where an NDA wasn't broken there. They didn't act. That immediately stops it from being real. Even if it was proof of concept, it'd be under NDA too. Now also remember that's three major IP's(Smash, Doom, and SMRPG being messed with). It's not just Nintendo, but SE and Id Software. All are seriously going to ignore it? No. They might not care if it's a Mod specifically, but if it's real(which means it's absolutely under NDA), they can and will care. Youtube is not something that is ever ignored. Hell, videos are taken down by the wrong companies sometimes cause they didn't notice it was a song that they didn't make(sometimes people don't pay attention to all the details). I've seen this throughout the years. Youtube is hyper stingy and can and will remove videos with a tap of the wrist. It would've been taken down if it was real, 100%. That's how it's been since Youtube ever had a leak up for most companies. There's probably some who either didn't care or had a terrible NDA contract. And those aren't every smart companies to do that. For Nintendo, they always take down every single Youtube leak. Their ratio is 100%. When one isn't taken down, it's clear it's fake, since they won't ever ignore it. I mean, the fact they outright arrested a person who leaked a database full of unused content, massively breaking the law and incidentally forcing the website in question to break NDA. Now the website pays for it(not necessarily with money, but they're still in trouble for having bad security) and that person got in legal trouble. Breaking NDA is a very serious thing. People lose their jobs all the time or worse. And they need to remove the content too, especially since that content isn't always entirely theirs to begin with. Nintendo can't show content immediately either, if they don't own it. Remember that an NDA has its own signed date of when it can be revealed. This is a mutual agreement among multiple companies if it involves someone strictly other than Nintendo. If they were to push back something, they need to re-do the NDA at the same time, since the date was changed.

It's complicated, but honestly not that complicated here. Somebody breaks NDA? They're in trouble. If Nintendo finds out, they take action. As do other companies. No action was taken with this leak. That means it was clearly not under NDA. Which means it has to be fake, cause why on earth would it not be under NDA? That's the simple version.

 

[MattX20]

I need to get some rest. See you all tomorrow

 

[Enigma735]

I am 90% convinced that Geno is coming at this point. The rest of the 10% is just my fear and anxiety that Nintendo is weird and doesn't decide to include him for some reason, but with the evidence in favor of Geno, I really do think this is his time. Besides, if Geno turned out to be a Mii Outfit after all of the evidence supporting his inclusion, then that would be the biggest slap in the face imaginable.

 

[QQS]

I am 90% convinced that Geno is coming at this point. The rest of the 10% is just my fear and anxiety that Nintendo is weird and doesn't decide to include him for some reason, but with the evidence in favor of Geno, I really do think this is his time. Besides, if Geno turned out to be a Mii Outfit after all of the evidence supporting his inclusion, then that would be the biggest slap in the face imaginable.

Same for me, and Im more extreme, cause I believe he is 100% IN playable. For example if he isn’t coming playable, I would be totally devastated cause I have believed in him in many ways since Melee/Brawl (I know him with 6 years old, in 1996 though). But I won’t put myself in that scenario cause I do think he is happening. Well if not, I should move on I guess.

Geno will fall down to Earth like a Shooting Star, just wait and see. As I always said, only a blind or deaf person won’t believe Geno is happening. Evidence speak for itself, just check Geno’s story, fan demand, Ultimate wishes coming true and Fatman Essay/Polar list.

(Credits to the Artist plz.

 

[Qeomash]

Besides, yes, the fact they refuse to take it down on Youtube is hard proof it has to be fake.

I honestly don't think the fact that Nintendo hasn't taken down Cacomallow videos affects if it's real or not. If they were to take them down, we'd be thinking they were real and they were trying to hide it. One way or another, it's in Nintendo's interest to just leave it alone.

They didn't take down the Ken leak that was real, and they also didn't take down the fake Grinch leak.

That being said, I've always been skeptical of Cacomallow because of its timing. Around a month or so before the appearance of Cacomallow the speculation about Doomguy was at a high point. Someone could have started working on it after all of that, intentionally referenced the Ken leak, and then posted it to 4chan. That's what bugs me about it, that it came at a pretty convenient time and still hasn't happened yet.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly don't think the fact that Nintendo hasn't taken down Cacomallow videos affects if it's real or not. If they were to take them down, we'd be thinking they were real and they were trying to hide it. One way or another, it's in Nintendo's interest to just leave it alone.

They didn't take down the Ken leak that was real, and they also didn't take down the fake Grinch leak.

That being said, I've always been skeptical of Cacomallow because of its timing. Around a month or so before the appearance of Cacomallow the speculation about Doomguy was at a high point. Someone could have started working on it after all of that, intentionally referenced the Ken leak, and then posted it to 4chan. That's what bugs me about it, that it came at a pretty convenient time and still hasn't happened yet.

No, it's not in their interest to leave it alone. It's a broken NDA. They always have and always will act. It's their hard policy. That's never changed. Leaving it up doesn't help them either. It's a legal issue, not a "ooh, they now know it's real. Welp." They're legally obliged to act on an NDA if they know it's there. For an NDA to matter, it has to be acted upon when somebody breaks it. Otherwise it's a meaningless thing. It holds everyone to an agreement, and that means everyone. That's the point behind them. The companies need to take action in order for it to work, and people who signed it cannot give information before the due date. It's not a one-way street. Nor ever will be.

They didn't take down the Ken Leak which was on 4chan(which they didn't know about, and unlike Youtube, 4chan deletes all posts and they can't actually trade it back to the leaker, so they can't take action even if they wanted to), and they do not know stuff that goes on on 4chan without being pointed it out. It's apples to coleslaw in how different they are. Grinch hoax was fake. Why would they take down a worthless fake? They don't care about fakes in the same way as real stuff(fakes do not break an NDA). They have to care about the real stuff. Youtube, on the other hand, is viral and everywhere. They easily know it's up. If they didn't know a Youtube video is up, they can't touch it. But they always have, and they sure as hell know of Cacomallow, since it was the talk of the town. Like, seriously, of course they know. It wasn't exactly a random obscure video. It was heavily talked about.

Cacomallow's timing doesn't mean too much. It was put up to fake us out at the time around when Byleth's thing was recorded. If it wasn't with Byleth, it'd be with ARMS. It didn't even look ready yet to go, so it wasn't in Byleth's actual recording. I never treated it as that big of a deal anyway. They only recently have worked on it, and they had six costumes ready for Byleth at that point. It'd be easily ready months in advance either way, whether it's for ARMS or not.

 

[SSGuy]

I honestly don't think the fact that Nintendo hasn't taken down Cacomallow videos affects if it's real or not. If they were to take them down, we'd be thinking they were real and they were trying to hide it. One way or another, it's in Nintendo's interest to just leave it alone.

They didn't take down the Ken leak that was real, and they also didn't take down the fake Grinch leak.

That being said, I've always been skeptical of Cacomallow because of its timing. Around a month or so before the appearance of Cacomallow the speculation about Doomguy was at a high point. Someone could have started working on it after all of that, intentionally referenced the Ken leak, and then posted it to 4chan. That's what bugs me about it, that it came at a pretty convenient time and still hasn't happened yet.

I was more or less skeptical of Cacomallow from the beginning. I was thinking it would be another case where we have a suspicious leak like this float around the numerous discussion boards/threads until a few weeks later where someone comes out and reveals that it was all a ruse and reveal the true nature behind the fake.

However the two biggest things that really have me slowly but surely siding with the Mii Costume leak are the following.

1) The confession from a credible Smash Ultimate/Switch modder that has mentioned how unlikely something of that much detail could be modded at the time. Even with all the attempts, none of them seem to come close to how well done those costumes are.

2) The fact nobody has cracked under pressure and came out revealing the true nature behind the costumes. If this was a genuine modder, it doesn't seem like he would hide his secrets from the community alone and risk having someone else make the same discovery of really believable rendered hats and take the credit away.

The reason why I am not super invested with Cacomallow and why I hardly talk about it is because the costumes don't have any impact on Geno's chances alone. There is nothing about them that convinces me further that Geno is a playable fighter at the moment. The last thing I want to do is get my hopes up and put all my eggs behind a Mallow Mii hat when the possibility of just getting a bunch of Mario RPG mii costumes and no Geno fighter is still on the table.

I mention this all the time. I think the hats are real. I just don't think they are a golden ticket for Geno becoming a playable fighter. I won't believe that until I actually see Geno's name in a splash screen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

2) The fact nobody has cracked under pressure and came out revealing the true nature behind the costumes. If this was a genuine modder, it doesn't seem like he would hide his secrets from the community alone and risk having someone else make the same discovery of really believable rendered hats and take the credit away.

It's impossible to remake a model 100%. How on earth could they do this if they didn't record a video of them creating it? That's what the Spring Man/Decidueye creator did. They can't actually come out and prove it since they didn't do the correct job of actually recording their work first. All they recorded was the final bit.

They can't do anything. Claiming it is meaningless. There's a good chance one of the people trying to recreate it is the same person who made Cacomallow. It's impossible to get it right again.

I also doubt it's impossible for anyone to get that far, especially as how bad the quality of the video was. That's not that impressive, in terms of quality. It's cool and more than some can do, sure. I can't do models for crap, and I won't pretend I'd be able to get that far, but that doesn't mean that video could be called good quality either. We see fairly decent quality mods at this point. More realistically the person was a very good modder, even possibly someone who worked in modeling in general, doing so. Maybe they were a previous employee or something. But that doesn't mean it as remotely high quality as any final or close to final Mii costume either.

 

[Qeomash]

I was more or less skeptical of Cacomallow from the beginning. I was thinking it would be another case where we have a suspicious leak like this float around the numerous discussion boards/threads until a few weeks later where someone comes out and reveals that it was all a ruse and reveal the true nature behind the fake.

However the two biggest things that really have me slowly but surely siding with the Mii Costume leak are the following.

1) The confession from a credible Smash Ultimate/Switch modder that has mentioned how unlikely something of that much detail could be modded at the time. Even with all the attempts, none of them seem to come close to how well done those costumes are.

2) The fact nobody has cracked under pressure and came out revealing the true nature behind the costumes. If this was a genuine modder, it doesn't seem like he would hide his secrets from the community alone and risk having someone else make the same discovery of really believable rendered hats and take the credit away.

The reason why I am not super invested with Cacomallow and why I hardly talk about it is because the costumes don't have any impact on Geno's chances alone. There is nothing about them that convinces me further that Geno is a playable fighter at the moment. The last thing I want to do is get my hopes up and put all my eggs behind a Mallow Mii hat when the possibility of just getting a bunch of Mario RPG mii costumes and no Geno fighter is still on the table.

I mention this all the time. I think the hats are real. I just don't think they are a golden ticket for Geno becoming a playable fighter. I won't believe that until I actually see Geno's name in a splash screen.

Honestly, if Cacomallow actually is fake I don't think it's a mod at all. Video editing is easy to come by these days, and because Cacomallow is a pair of videos played on a computer screen and recorded to a phone it wouldn't have to be the greatest and most perfect effects.

 

[axel_]

I still have no idea how people can think that this

can be considered bad quality. I know a majority of Smash fans wear glasses, but geez I didn't think their eyesight could be THAT bad.
It's obviously not as high quality as a direct screenshot or video capture, but it's nowhere near the level of the SSB4 ESRB leak's appalling, "totally real Bigfoot sighting"-tier quality.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I still have no idea how people can think that this


View attachment 272289

can be considered bad quality. I know a majority of Smash fans wear glasses, but geez I didn't think their eyesight could be THAT bad.
It's obviously not as high quality as a direct screenshot or video capture, but it's nowhere near the level of the SSB4 ESRB leak's appalling, "totally real Bigfoot sighting"-tier quality.

CacoMallow being in decent quality is one of the biggest things that makes me think it's real. Oftentimes with fake leaks, the "leaker" is afraid to show what they have because they know all their little inconsistencies will be counted against them if the "leak" is high quality enough to be analyzed. Grinch Leak's art looked somewhat out of place even with how blurry it was, imagine how crappy and fake it would've looked had Grinch been actually decent quality. There can be exceptions to this, of course (Rayman Leak being an example), but the fact stands that whoever put CacoMallow on the internet was not afraid of giving the internet the ability to analyze it to death.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

 

[Griselda]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

A pretty important difference between the two is that what we're looking at here is a video, and from just brushing up on the Palutena leak (I wasn't around for that one, personally) it seems that was just two static images. I'm not 100% on CacoMallow either way, but that's a pretty big point that needs to be addressed, if we're making a comparison between the two cases. If CacoMallow is fake, then what we're looking at is an actual Ultimate mod, while Palutena was simply a picture edit, where shots of the custom models were inserted into the stage background screenshot.

 

[axel_]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

Last I checked the Palutena leak didn't have two gameplay videos with decent phone video quality.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

Yeah, no.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

Tony Hawk games have been in curculation for about the same amount of time, same thing with the next Batman: Arkham game, and we know those are happening. Time is kinder to leaks and rumors than you may think.

Honestly we've been over the whole "It's been so long and we haven't gotten anything" argument so many times it's getting kinda obnoxious. Why is it so hard to believe that Nintendo would save the easy-to-make Mii Costumes for their planned DLC releases?

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

Again, last I checked Grinch Leak didn't have an actual gameplay video with decent quality.

 

[StarLight42]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

umm, I honestly don't even believe cacomallow is real, and even I can tell the obvious difference between that leak and this one, it's a video. Not a good comparison

 

[TheCJBrine]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

tbh that Palutena leak wasn’t the best in hindsight, her shield-wielding arm was in a broken-looking position.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

And? I don't think anyone here genuinely believes the leak is real based on the quality of the models alone, it's the fact that several modders have tried to replicate it and failed without really coming close to the quality CacoMallow had. Palutena Leak wasn't any more than high quality models based on what I can gather, it didn't require borderline (or just straight up) impossible modding to accomplish, all it had going for it was looking decent.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

There's never been some predetermined "lifespan" on leaks, especially for DLC. Truth is, we have no idea how the development of Mii Costumes is done, so it'd be unwise just to throw the leak out because it was decided, based on blind speculation of how development time works, that Mii costumes are tested/finished closer to release than what CacoMallow allows.
Hell, we've only had 2 characters release/Mii Costume waves since CacoMallow. One being Terry's, which came 2 days after CacoMallow was first uploaded. By November 4th, I'd bet that all content coming with Terry was done being tested. Hell, Byleth was probably mostly in the final stages of testing too, seeing as how his presentation was recorded in November and Sakurai stated they had to put his reveal off due to the holidays an what not. This really only leaves Byleth's (Which as stated before, was probably heading towards the end of development/testing by Nov 4th) and future unreleased content to be tested by Nov 4th (Which could very well include something like CacoMallow)

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

I mean, I thought that the SNK Copyright Leak gave off "Weird accident that didn't mean much probably" vibes when it first happened, yet I was wrong. It's hard to gauge whether a leak is fake based on the "vibes" it gives off. Me, and many others, thought Grinch gave off ESRB vibes when it was in its hayday and you can obviously tell how that turned out. "Vibes" are subjective and really shouldn't be used to gauge a leak's legitimacy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay everyone is replying to me so I guess I just won't respond to people individually, so let me make some points...

• Palutena leak only looks bad in hindsight. It was seen as real for a very long time. Some people even believed it to be real after her official confirmation. I believe there were touch ups to the model. It's not the exact Brawl model.
• I understand that developers can finish things ahead of time and hold on to them. The new Paper Mario is proof of that. But I will ask, who got the video if the costumes were that far off from release? These kind of things only get less guarded closer to release.
• I understand video isn't the same as pictures. I'm just using it as an example of a high quality fake done for seemingly no reason other than to troll.
• I said that last point cause I'm hearing things that lead to it being not true, but I'm pretty low on the totem pole so... **** me I suppose. I don't actually know whats happening.

Regardless, I guess posting my doubts was a mistake. I kinda got jumped on there.

 

[OffBi]

I just want to remind people that the Palutena leak in Smash 4 was fake.

And that was a high quality custom model of a character who didn't have one at that point, not potential edits on Miis.

Like axel pointed it out, that wasn't a custom model, it was an edit of a Brawl trophy model.
Oh yeah, another thing. NO. GAMEPLAY. VIDEOS.

I think its wise to throw to largely throw cacomallow out. It's been a very long time with no sign of it being true.

Over my dead ****ing body.
I'll sacrifice my newborn baby to the Elder Gods than saying that Cacomallow is fake.

That doesn't really affect Geno's chances, but I'm getting major Grinch leak vibes with this. And I KNEW that was fake.

This is nothing, NOTHING like the Grinch leak AT ALL.
Another thing as well. NO. MOTHER. ****ING. GAMEPLAY. VIDEOS.
IT WAS JUST A BLURRY AS **** IMAGE OF AN HEAVILY EDITED ROSTER THAT APPEARED TO LOOK REAL TO US BECAUSE WE WANTED IT TO BE REAL.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Over my dead ****ing body.
I'll sacrifice my newborn baby to the Elder Gods than saying that Cacomallow is fake.

This really be a bruh moment...

I think you need to chill dude.

 

[StarLight42]

Okay everyone is replying to me so I guess I just won't respond to people individually, so let me make some points...

• Palutena leak only looks bad in hindsight. It was seen as real for a very long time. Some people even believed it to be real after her official confirmation. I believe there were touch ups to the model. It's not the exact Brawl model.
• I understand that developers can finish things ahead of time and hold on to them. The new Paper Mario is proof of that. But I will ask, who got the video if the costumes were that far off from release? These kind of things only get less guarded closer to release.
• I understand video isn't the same as pictures. I'm just using it as an example of a high quality fake done for seemingly no reason other than to troll.
• I said that last point cause I'm hearing things that lead to it being not true, but I'm pretty low on the totem pole so... **** me I suppose. I don't actually know whats happening.

Regardless, I guess posting my doubts was a mistake. I kinda got jumped on there.

Dude, I already said i'm on the disbeliever side of cacomallow.

I just think that you made a very poor comparison. And really? Seen as real for a long time? When was that? I really don't remember many people thinking it was real at all and even after Palu was in, people could see the obvious differences between the dopey leak one and the in game model.

You can make a point against cacomallow without trying to associate it with another leak that was nowhere near as significant.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dude, I already said i'm on the disbeliever side of cacomallow.

That wasn't directed towards you?

It was more of a point in general. I'm not sure why you thought I was targeting you specifically.

And really? Seen as real for a long time? When was that? I really don't remember many people thinking it was real at all and even after Palu was in, people could see the obvious differences between the dopey leak one and the in game model.

We must have been hanging around different crowds cause I remember it being lauded as a legit leak for a long time.

 

[TriggerX]

I still have no idea how people can think that this


View attachment 272289

can be considered bad quality. I know a majority of Smash fans wear glasses, but geez I didn't think their eyesight could be THAT bad.
It's obviously not as high quality as a direct screenshot or video capture, but it's nowhere near the level of the SSB4 ESRB leak's appalling, "totally real Bigfoot sighting"-tier quality.

Idk if you’re being sarcastic, but that video is definitely poor quality.

Honestly it’s crazy that people are claiming that modders can’t match the quality of the mii costumes seen in that video. You can hardly see any details on any frame because the whole thing is too blurry.

I actually believe it’s fake for two reasons:

1.) It’s blurry in order to hide details that give it away too much.
Sure real leaks are often blurry too, but they are blurry because more often than not they are done spontaneously and discreetly. As a result you usually get camera shakes, focusing issues ,etc.
The phone is fairly still. It does move every once in awhile, but it seems to be staged/mounted to help its stability. Unless this person has very still hands.

2.) Another still image was provided instead of letting the video show itself. Still images can easily be photoshopped, especially when it comes to games. The image is of much higher quality than the video, so I will admit you can see the details on the models, but only on the still image.

Overall there is a huge quality difference between that still and the video. All characters are also performing a taunt for that picture which doesn’t happen in the video. Also using Ken.

Basically it was staged from start to finish, and whoever “leaked” this footage had control over the demo/ test play . Setting up a camera doesn’t seem like something they felt the need to hide either.

What I personally think happened is that it was a mod. And then they provided an edited still of different quality to hopefully further drive the point it’s real.
This hat is basically the same, just touched up for that photo.

 

[OffBi]

Idk if you’re being sarcastic, but that video is definitely poor quality.

Honestly it’s crazy that people are claiming that modders can’t match the quality of the mii costumes seen in that video. You can hardly see any details on any frame because the whole thing is too blurry.

I actually believe it’s fake for two reasons:

1.) It’s blurry in order to hide details that give it away too much.
Sure real leaks are often blurry too, but they are blurry because more often than not they are done spontaneously and discreetly. As a result you usually get camera shakes, focusing issues ,etc.
The phone is fairly still. It does move every once in awhile, but it seems to be staged/mounted to help its stability. Unless this person has very still hands.

2.) Another still image was provided instead of letting the video show itself. Still images can easily be photoshopped, especially when it comes to games. The image is of much higher quality than the video, so I will admit you can see the details on the models, but only on the still image.

Overall there is a huge quality difference between that still and the video. All characters are also performing a taunt for that picture which doesn’t happen in the video. Also using Ken.

Basically it was staged from start to finish, and whoever “leaked” this footage had control over the demo/ test play . Setting up a camera doesn’t seem like something they felt the need to hide either.

What I personally think happened is that it was a mod. And then they provided an edited still of different quality to hopefully further drive the point it’s real.
This hat is basically the same, just touched up for that photo.
View attachment 272307

>This hat is basically the same, just touched up for that photo.

Idk about that one chief
Also
The quality of the miis in both the image AND the videos are THE ****ING. SAME.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Idk if you’re being sarcastic, but that video is definitely poor quality.

Honestly it’s crazy that people are claiming that modders can’t match the quality of the mii costumes seen in that video. You can hardly see any details on any frame because the whole thing is too blurry.

I actually believe it’s fake for two reasons:

1.) It’s blurry in order to hide details that give it away too much.
Sure real leaks are often blurry too, but they are blurry because more often than not they are done spontaneously and discreetly. As a result you usually get camera shakes, focusing issues ,etc.
The phone is fairly still. It does move every once in awhile, but it seems to be staged/mounted to help its stability. Unless this person has very still hands.

2.) Another still image was provided instead of letting the video show itself. Still images can easily be photoshopped, especially when it comes to games. The image is of much higher quality than the video, so I will admit you can see the details on the models, but only on the still image.

Overall there is a huge quality difference between that still and the video. All characters are also performing a taunt for that picture which doesn’t happen in the video. Also using Ken.

Basically it was staged from start to finish, and whoever “leaked” this footage had control over the demo/ test play . Setting up a camera doesn’t seem like something they felt the need to hide either.

What I personally think happened is that it was a mod. And then they provided an edited still of different quality to hopefully further drive the point it’s real.
This hat is basically the same, just touched up for that photo.
View attachment 272307

Either there's some serious cognitive dissonance going on or you're looking at a different leak than the rest of us.
If CacoMallow's blurry, then everything is. It was steady footage recording a TV screen, it's near the best quality footage you'll get in that regard without using a capture card. I get it's not HD but claiming CacoMallow is low quality is borderline lying.

"Hat is the same as the one in the crying laughing face thing"

 

[TriggerX]

Either there's some serious cognitive dissonance going on or you're looking at a different leak than the rest of us.
If CacoMallow's blurry, then everything is. It was steady footage recording a TV screen, it's near the best quality footage you'll get in that regard without using a capture card. I get it's not HD but claiming CacoMallow is low quality is borderline lying.

"Hat is the same as the one in the crying laughing face thing"
View attachment 272310

Yea that footage that keeps on getting reposted here is blurry. Unless there’s another video floating around, but there’s no way that any 3D modeler could recreate that cacodemon hat from that footage alone.

Sure the lighting and angle is different, but a lot of that is taken care of in game.
The only thing I would say is noticably off about that model is the actual inside lines where the mii head meet the costume. That’s easily edited manually in a still photo.

I can’t say with 100% certainty that it’s the exact same hat, although I wouldn’t be surprised. However no one can say it isn’t the same one either.

I can guarantee if that hat (crying guy hat) were in that video instead ,you all couldn’t tell the difference while watching that clip.

Theres definitely some reaching trying to nit pick details you can’t even make out in that footage.

 

[axel_]

Palutena leak only looks bad in hindsight. It was seen as real for a very long time. Some people even believed it to be real after her official confirmation.

Easy to say the exact thing about the Grinch. Again, neither of which had gameplay video.

I believe there were touch ups to the model. It's not the exact Brawl model.

Yeah, of course there would be touch-ups because the creator of the Palutena leak isn't a ****ing idiot.

But I will ask, who got the video if the costumes were that far off from release? These kind of things only get less guarded closer to release.

Playtesters. Not really much further you could go with that.
And no, they don't. Otherwise we would've known about Byleth and the Cuphead costume by mid-December.

I'm just using it as an example of a high quality fake done for seemingly no reason other than to troll.

Anyone can photoshop a render into a still image from a demo. You can't say the same for an actual video of these models in-action during a game.
This exact same thing happened with the Ken leak's official release. People picked it apart looking for reasons it would be fake, but it was decided not long after that it was real, aaaaand it was.

Idk if you’re being sarcastic, but that video is definitely poor quality.

Honestly it’s crazy that people are claiming that modders can’t match the quality of the mii costumes seen in that video. You can hardly see any details on any frame because the whole thing is too blurry.

Yep, the Cacomallow video is totally poor quality. Definitely comparable to

Seriously, it looks fine. There is absolutely no way for a current gen phone recording to look bad in ANY WAY unless you go out of your way to drop the quality.
But hey, since you wanna be picky about the "details" and what they try to hide, care to explain how they could possibly have the same UI icon for the Cacodemon Mii Gunner be the same as the image? If it's the same mod as the already debunked picture at the bottom of your post, then surely the UI icon wouldn't be the same as the original Cacomallow image, right?

All characters are also performing a taunt for that picture which doesn’t happen in the video. Also using Ken.

I don't think it's such an alien concept that they could've set up the shot of them all taunting before recording the video. And I'm not even gonna try and decipher where you're trying to go with Ken. Are you saying that he doesn't show up in the video, even though he clearly does?

 

[Lord Woomy]

Sure the lighting and angle is different, but a lot of that is taken care of in game.
The only thing I would say is noticably off about that model is the actual inside lines where the mii head meet the costume. That’s easily edited manually in a still photo.

I can’t say with 100% certainty that it’s the exact same hat, although I wouldn’t be surprised. However no one can say it isn’t the same one either.

I can guarantee if that hat (crying guy hat) were in that video instead ,you all couldn’t tell the difference while watching that clip.

Theres definitely some reaching trying to nit pick details you can’t even make out in that footage.

It's a different model, there's just no arguing with that. Honest to God, I have literally no idea how anyone on God's green Earth could think they're the same. Literally, the damn hat clips through the head when it doesn't in CacoMallow but somehow they're still the same model. Yes, I could tell if they were different if crying face hat model was in the video, most people could. This honestly toes the line between "A very poor argument" and "Just straight up lying"

 

[MisterMike]

The Stoopid Unikorn Gonna say for the record, I don't think you're a troll and I think you bring up some decent points. Also, I'll respond to your rebuttals tomorrow since it's kind of late right now.

But guys, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars IS a 3D game, because you can move on all three planes of space!
View attachment 272258

Hell, that's why Culex came to the world of SMRPG in the japanese version. He didn't understand the 3D realm and decided to fight Mario in order to get a grasp of it.

Can someone please make a poggers Geno image so we can use it as avatars on Discord or Smashboards if/when he gets in?

I'm on it. Stay tuned.

 

[Lyncario]

On the subject of modders being unable to recreate the Mii costume, if Cacomallow was a mod, then we have no idea how long it was worked on (I would say that it was worked on since August, considering Yggdrasil's altar) while most modders worked on "recreating" it in like 3 days maximum before moving on, so of course most modders would not get it right if they used a fraction of the time the leak potentialy had.