Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Malo Mart]

What's all this talk about Cacomallow being low quality? I thought it was a pristine work of art up there with Bob Ross' best!

 

[Lord Woomy]

Me coming to the Geno Thread every day to see the same few users constantly using bad arguments to try and debunk Geno's chances

 

[TriggerX]

Easy to say the exact thing about the Grinch. Again, neither of which had gameplay video.



Yeah, of course there would be touch-ups because the creator of the Palutena leak isn't a ****ing idiot.



Playtesters. Not really much further you could go with that.
And no, they don't. Otherwise we would've known about Byleth and the Cuphead costume by mid-December.




Anyone can photoshop a render into a still image from a demo. You can't say the same for an actual video of these models in-action during a game.
This exact same thing happened with the Ken leak's official release. People picked it apart looking for reasons it would be fake, but it was decided not long after that it was real, aaaaand it was.




Yep, the Cacomallow video is totally poor quality. Definitely comparable to

Seriously, it looks fine. There is absolutely no way for a current gen phone recording to look bad in ANY WAY unless you go out of your way to drop the quality.
But hey, since you wanna be picky about the "details" and what they try to hide, care to explain how they could possibly have the same UI icon for the Cacodemon Mii Gunner be the same as the image? If it's the same mod as the already debunked picture at the bottom of your post, then surely the UI icon wouldn't be the same as the original Cacomallow image, right?



I don't think it's such an alien concept that they could've set up the shot of them all taunting before recording the video. And I'm not even gonna try and decipher where you're trying to go with Ken. Are you saying that he doesn't show up in the video, even though he clearly does?

Im assuming the UI icon you’re referring to is the still face image below in the video? If so that’s super easy to manipulate if you’re familiar with Adobe Premiere and After effects. You’re basically just editing the image frame by frame. Since it never changes position too much it’s not a difficult edit to do.Even if it moves you could still techinically do it, it’s just more tedious.
We would do edits like that all the time for clients so I can’t say it’s a hard task to accomplish.

Idk I’m personally not big into the modding scene, so I can’t say what can and can’t be done on that end. But I’ve done quite a bit of 3D modeling and video editing over time and from my perspective the quality of that footage is able to

As far as the Ken thing goes, it’s seems like a call back to previous leaks. It’s potentially trying to increase its own legitimacy by bandwagoning off of a trend of a proven one.

As far as that “crying guy” cacodemon hat, does anyone know the origin of that? Specifically when it was created and is it available for download anywhere?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Me coming to the Geno Thread every day to see the same few users constantly using bad arguments to try and debunk Geno's chances
View attachment 272313

I just got here though...

And I think Geno's got a fairly good shot.

I just think Cacomallow isn't real.

 

[Griselda]

At this point.. I suppose I'm wondering why it really matters to try and disprove CacoMallow, in the first place? It could be real and Geno doesn't get in anyway because he's a costume too, it could be fake and we don't get anything new SMRPG-related, it could be fake and Geno comes solo with no Mallow in sight, or it could be fake.. and Geno comes with a Mallow hat that's different than the one in the video.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I just got here though...

And I think Geno's got a fairly good shot.

You weren't really one of the ones I was talking about lol

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

At this point.. I suppose I'm wondering why it really matters to try and disprove CacoMallow, in the first place? It could be real and Geno doesn't get in anyway because he's a costume too, it could be fake and we don't get anything new SMRPG-related, it could be fake and Geno comes solo with no Mallow in sight, or it could be fake.. and Geno comes with a Mallow hat that's different than the one in the video.

Good job summarizing everything important about this whole discussion! I don't think anyone here is suggesting Geno is coming as a result of Cacomallow alone. Plenty of us don't believe in Cacomallow or find it relevant enough due to its unprovable nature and how it doesn't necessarily mean anything for playable Geno.

Personally, I would probably be more inclined to think it's real if it didn't surface around the time that (like others said) Doomguy was heavily speculated and the Mii costume list was available to pull from thus the mallow hat. It's just way too convenient that it lines up with those things and is using Ken in the video just screams piggybacking to me so I'm inclined to say likely fake but I'll reserve my judgment until I see the next few Mii costume waves.

More importantly, it's the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence that has piled up for Geno (not the evidence itself so much, but the sheer volume of it) plus the fact that the ARMS character very likely will break some kind of fan rule that leads many of us to believe that Geno really is coming as a playable character. I think we all know we could be wrong, have been wrong about things before, but could also (and I know this is going to shock some people...) be right *gasp*. Plain and simple other characters don't live on Coincidence? Mountain like Geno does with all this pooling information that points to the very likely possibility of Geno as a playable character coming in FP2. Don't get me wrong, there are other characters with circumstantial evidence also and some have multiple things to consider but none have the sheer volume of circumstances that Geno has in his corner. I will be very surprised if we don't at least get something more from SMRPG before FP2 ends due to all the indicators that at least some kind of content is coming. Worst case scenario imo is that something SMRPG was planned but somewhere an agreement wasn't able to be reached and we end up with just 2 base game spirits and a heaping of unfulfilled wishes. At the end of the day it's just a game and I'll live if I'm wrong about Geno coming as a playable character. At least I got Ridley, Dark Samus, KKR, and all veterans (especially Lucas).

 

[Polarthief]

Calling the footage "clean" is pretty generous. It was recorded with a phone and it's borderline "potato quality"... unless you meant the quality of the models, in which case that's a fair point.

But here's the thing, you're expecting this to be proven false by having someone somehow replicate it accurately enough without us being able to get a good enough look to do so. Pretty sure it's hard to replicate anything that people can't see properly.

Of course modders would make mistakes when the thing they have to replicate isn't fully shown (aka being able to see the thing from up close at enough angles) and recorded with a phone, which can mess up with things like color saturation regardless of recording quality.

To expect a clean enough replica under these conditions from modders are pretty high expectations.

Of course, you're free to deny this argument if you want. I just want to point out that modding isn't really an easy thing to do.

Okay so as others have pointed out, it's cleaner than you're claiming. This is hardly "potato phone quality".

Is it flawless 4K UHD? Of course not, but claiming this to be "potato quality" is unfair and you know it.

Because this is literally what Nintendo always does?

Leaking footage is essentially copyright infringment, and Nintendo really cares about their contracts. Byleth's male VA was completely changed primarly because Chris Niosi broke his NDA, so they're definitely not the kind to take something like a big leak kindly.

Pretty much any legit Nintendo leak that gets shared on YouTube and other video services get taken out because it's, y'know, not legal to do so?

Except that just draws even more attention to it. Changing a VA because they were found to break NDA is one thing, but taking down an unconfirmed leak would do nothing but put even more eyes on it, and they know that.

Sakurai went out of his way with Lucina's inclusion in Smash 4 to explain that even the slightest of differences is worth making someone go from a mere alternate skin to a full-blown character slot.

Yet Sakurai also gave Simon some of Richter's moves so, potato-potahto.

It also helps that the overall core gameplay across all Belmonts is the same; use whip, use items, rinse and repeat. They play similarly in their games, so it doesn't feel too strange.

All the ARMS characters punch, grab, block, charge their arms, dodge, dash, etc. They have small things that differentiate them, just like the Belmonts.

What if Geno was added, but half his moveset is Mallow's moves, so Mallow happens to be an alt. Would that feel right? Would it feel right to see Geno do marshmallow stuff, would it feel right for Mallow to have Geno Whirl?

You're comparing an apple to a carrot. All the ARMS characters have about 90%+ of the same moves. Mallow and Geno are wildly different characters that have completely different spells and attacks. The only thing they do that is the same is using items and defending. That said, I'd be totally fine if Geno used Mallow to assist him for a move or two as a "hey, Mallow's here to!" kind of neat reference. Overall, you're vastly underestimating how extremely similar all the ARMS characters are. The only thing that sets them apart are their unique traits, and that's ONE OR TWO THINGS, TOPS, PER CHARACTER (besides aesthetics/voice, obviously).

Except Seven Squares isn't just a matter of time.

It was specifically for the Square character that Vergeben and other leakers were informed about back in 2018.

So to say Seven Squares is an argument in favor of Geno would be implying that he was decided to be added in the game, at the absolute latest, on the same month Ultimate released.

And I very much doubt that Geno as a Fighters Pass 2 character or any Pass 2 character, for that matter, was decided that soon.

It's not irrelevant because of how long ago it is. It's irrelevant because it was for a completely different thing that's unrelated to the second Pass.

Except why would their list change drastically if they were getting a second character to pick? Why not just conveniently pick from their list? It's not like any other SE character has gotten significantly more popular since then. You could argue 2B, but if they didn't even consider her for the first character slot, I don't know why they suddenly would for the second. Did Nier get/will get anything between Ultimate's release and the end of 2021?

I went through your list and noticed that you didn't even include the biggest thing in Geno's favor: spirit battles can be altered to suit the DLC an individual purchases. Cuphead's spirit battle is a Red Mega Man (if the DLC isn't bought) and uses jazzy music from Smash's massive ost. However, if you have the DLC, it replaces him with the Mii Gunner wearing the Cuphead costume and replaces the music with Floral Fury.

I know people shut down the idea by saying "it's just a mii costume" but they never stop and realize that this "mii costume" requires a completely seperate chain of code to work and isn't just placed over Mega Man's. It's replacing the entire character, not just adding a costume over the original. It's easily one of the biggest pieces of evidence that justifies, at the very least, the concept of a playable Geno.

I wouldn't say that's the biggest thing in his favor, but it is a good point and I'll add it in after finally getting this post done.

Grinch hoax was fake. Why would they take down a worthless fake?

Wasn't there repercussions from companies because of Grinch Leak? IIRC something was put out by the company responsible, but I'm too lazy and don't care enough to search for it. I just remember that was a big reason why a lot of people saw it to be real, myself included to an extent.

I just got here though...

And I think Geno's got a fairly good shot.

I just think Cacomallow isn't real.

Which is totally fine and you're free to think what you want, but stop using the same weak arguments everyone does like "it's been so long". It really, really, hasn't been that long at all. Like ffs, MEGALOVANIA and BK's remixes got taken down, what, 9 months in advance? CacoMallow has been around for 6.5 months.

Something else to consider regarding the timing: FP2 was getting negotiations done around or before E3. The copyright takedown songs for SMRPG happened around E3, then 5 months later, we get a leak for an SMRPG costume. Honestly, the timing seems pretty good all things considered.

It could be real and Geno doesn't get in anyway because he's a costume too

The chances of Mallow getting a costume with Geno not being playable is practically nonexistent to me. Like why go out of their way after already disappointing Geno fans with a Mallow costume? If the Geno costume isn't a consolation anymore, what would putting Mallow in accomplish?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wasn't there repercussions from companies because of Grinch Leak? IIRC something was put out by the company responsible, but I'm too lazy and don't care enough to search for it. I just remember that was a big reason why a lot of people saw it to be real, myself included to an extent.

I don't remember. But to be fair, it has everything people wanted, and it was a pretty big hoax all things considered. The guy was never actually caught.

Worth noting that there was barely anything against the hoax at the time too;

• Box Theory
• Goes against Sakurai saying there wasn't many characters left(and there was a ton on the hoax)
• The background did not match the official site's, even without us seeing the true BG without anything else. It was heavily compared to previous ones, and the BG was actually different. Not a lot believed this last bit, though.

It doesn't help it also means people didn't get Incineroar, and wanted to prove Verge wrong too. So there's a lot of reasons people believed it. I'm speaking in general, so I don't know exactly why you thought it was real.

 

[Polarthief]

I'm speaking in general, so I don't know exactly why you thought it was real.

Wishful thinking, honestly. Sakurai was doing everything he could to make everyone as happy as possible with a lot of the base roster additions, so I figured he'd want to go out with a bang instead of... Kencineroar. Regardless if you like them or not, I think most everyone can agree that the final pre-release direct was by far the weakest and while the game is still fantastic and deserves the praise (OUTSIDE of the garbage netcode), it did kill a lot of hype just before it came out. That direct was padded so hard with mostly Spirits info (and I still think Spirits are such a meh thing overall. Good concept, bad execution) and anything else they could fill it with.

Goes against Sakurai saying there wasn't many characters left(and there was a ton on the hoax)

Honestly, I figured he was just being his memer self and just saying this so we "don't get our hopes up", and then expectations get blown out of the water as he finishes off with a lot of big fan-favorites.

Box Theory

This was probably the biggest thing that should have killed Grinch Leak TBH.

PS: The moral of the Grinch Leak is that is why I'm always going to be a pessimist after being burned too many times by optimism. Every time I ever have a little faith in something, I just always get massively disappointed. It's why I'm so harshly critical of Origami King. If it actually proves me wrong, I get to be pleasantly surprised and excited for it, and if it doesn't, well, my expectations are that it's going to be bad, so I don't get disappointed. Inb4 the last thing I'm optimistic for (Geno's chances) end up burning me too, leaving me as a jaded husk at age 30.

 

[Griselda]

Good job summarizing everything important about this whole discussion! I don't think anyone here is suggesting Geno is coming as a result of Cacomallow alone. Plenty of us don't believe in Cacomallow or find it relevant enough due to its unprovable nature and how it doesn't necessarily mean anything for playable Geno.

I know reading sarcasm or tones in general on the internet is hit or miss, but are you attacking me or something? Something about this response feels off. Maybe it's just me.

The chances of Mallow getting a costume with Geno not being playable is practically nonexistent to me. Like why go out of their way after already disappointing Geno fans with a Mallow costume? If the Geno costume isn't a consolation anymore, what would putting Mallow in accomplish?

I don't know why they would think that having both of them be costumes would be a good idea, either, nor did I say that I feel like that's a likely outcome. I suppose I'm just a little wary of Nintendo in general, since about 2011, so I'm still thinking of it as a possibility.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I dont believe in any "video taken with camera" footage or "picture take with phone" image so by default, I think its fake untill proven otherwise

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay so as others have pointed out, it's cleaner than you're claiming. This is hardly "potato phone quality".
Is it flawless 4K UHD? Of course not, but claiming this to be "potato quality" is unfair and you know it.

It is cleaner than potato quality, but it's still not as good as pressing that capture button on your controller and sharing your screenshot to social media.

And like I said, recording with a camera will mess up things like color saturation on the screen regardless of recording quality. So the footage we see doesn't exactly match what our eyes see when looking at an actual TV screen.

It's not something we really think about because we can just naturally assume that, but it still makes the job harder for modders to replicate it because they don't have the exact color schemes.

Also, this post.

On the subject of modders being unable to recreate the Mii costume, if Cacomallow was a mod, then we have no idea how long it was worked on (I would say that it was worked on since August, considering Yggdrasil's altar) while most modders worked on "recreating" it in like 3 days maximum before moving on, so of course most modders would not get it right if they used a fraction of the time the leak potentialy had.

And I can already expect a "it's been 6 months already", so have this one too.

It's pretty dang close to what the CacoMallow leak showed.

Except that just draws even more attention to it. Changing a VA because they were found to break NDA is one thing, but taking down an unconfirmed leak would do nothing but put even more eyes on it, and they know that.

This literally doesn't matter. Sharing leaked footage of not-yet-announced stuff is breaking a NDA, and if not Nintendo, then it would be Square Enix or Bethesda would have to take action and take it down because it is essentially a breach of the contract they've made with Nintendo for Smash content.

You're essentially banking on the fact that not just Nintendo, but two other companies, including the extremely stingy and protective Square Enix, to do absolutely nothing about it for half a year about what is essentially a break of contract, which is something that is bad for any of these companies because it could potentially cause Nintendo to just straight up stop doing business with them to avoid further breaches.

If you truly believe CacoMallow is real despite Nintendo not taking down the video, expect to never see any Square or Bethesda content on Nintendo platforms for a long while, if not forever. Because that would be the other action Nintendo would take if not outright take down the video.

Overall, you're vastly underestimating how extremely similar all the ARMS characters are. The only thing that sets them apart are their unique traits, and that's ONE OR TWO THINGS, TOPS, PER CHARACTER (besides aesthetics/voice, obviously).

And you're vastly underestimating how small changes can make huge differences in gameplay.

The one or two things each character has that's unique is more than enough to give them wildly different playstyles.

You wouldn't play Ribbon Girl the same way you play Min Min. And this kind of logic applies to every character in ARMS.

The small differences they have is enough to make you play the game differently depending on who you pick up.

These one or two things, as you call them, are more than enough to define who they are, how they play and why people grativate towards certain characters rather than just all of them because "sAmE mOvEsEt AnYwAy"

Except why would their list change drastically if they were getting a second character to pick? Why not just conveniently pick from their list? It's not like any other SE character has gotten significantly more popular since then. You could argue 2B, but if they didn't even consider her for the first character slot, I don't know why they suddenly would for the second.

Square still has plenty of options.

They could double dip on FF7 with Tifa to market their remake.
They could give 2B from Automata because of how well her game did.
They could give Lara Croft (yes, they own her now), who was one of the biggest icons of the 90s and is still doing fairly well to this day.
And so on... of course, they could always give Geno too if none of these heavy hitters feel right.

And again, the Seven Squares was 100% leakbait to hide Hero. If we do get another Square character, we'd be very likely to get a different list of leakbaits, which may or may not retain some names from the older list, but either way, that older list isn't of any use for current day speculation.

Did Nier get/will get anything between Ultimate's release and the end of 2021?

This was announced. And given it's meant to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the series, which is this year, saying it'd be a 2022 game is kinda crazy.

 

[Polarthief]

It is cleaner than potato quality, but it's still not as good as pressing that capture button on your controller and sharing your screenshot to social media.

You have no idea what the conditions for this Switch was. It could have easily been a company Switch that notifies someone else when it goes online or if the microSD is tampered with. The safest thing would be using an outside device that doesn't connect to the system in any way (I wouldn't even risk a game capture device). That's an easy way to get ****canned immediately.

It's pretty dang close to what the CacoMallow leak showed.

"pretty dang close" means nothing when there's that awful clipping issue.

This literally doesn't matter. Sharing leaked footage of not-yet-announced stuff is breaking a NDA, and if not Nintendo, then it would be Square Enix or Bethesda would have to take action and take it down because it is essentially a breach of the contract they've made with Nintendo for Smash content.

You're essentially banking on the fact that not just Nintendo, but two other companies, including the extremely stingy and protective Square Enix, to do absolutely nothing about it for half a year about what is essentially a break of contract, which is something that is bad for any of these companies because it could potentially cause Nintendo to just straight up stop doing business with them to avoid further breaches.

If you truly believe CacoMallow is real despite Nintendo not taking down the video, expect to never see any Square or Bethesda content on Nintendo platforms for a long while, if not forever. Because that would be the other action Nintendo would take if not outright take down the video.

I mean, no, I can't refute that. I don't know why or how it's still up. I don't think the second bit of what you said is necessarily correct though. Even having their content up, it's still Smash-related and I'd assume Nintendo to be the only one who can take those down. Regardless though, again, I don't know how it's still up.

And you're vastly underestimating how small changes can make huge differences in gameplay.

The one or two things each character has that's unique is more than enough to give them wildly different playstyles.

You wouldn't play Ribbon Girl the same way you play Min Min. And this kind of logic applies to every character in ARMS.

The small differences they have is enough to make you play the game differently depending on who you pick up.

You compared giving Mallow and Geno's moves to each other when they're like 95%+ different compared to characters that are 95% similar. You also are still making this argument despite Simon and Richter existing in Smash how they are. I'm sorry but at this point we'll just have to agree to disagree because there's no point in going in circles.

They could double dip on FF7 with Tifa to market their remake.

Sephiroth? Yes. Tifa? I just don't see that happening. Anything is possible, sure, but I really don't think that would be the case. Tifa doesn't have nearly the same fanbase as Sephiroth does, and even then, Cloud is still in the game.

They could give 2B from Automata because of how well her game did.

But they didn't bother to put her on the list the first time?

They could give Lara Croft (yes, they own her now), who was one of the biggest icons of the 90s and is still doing fairly well to this day.

They also owned her last year and the year before that, and most definitely the last 10 years before that. In fact, they've owned her since 2003, and yet they still didn't bother to put her on the list.

And again, the Seven Squares was 100% leakbait to hide Hero.

100% leakbait to hide Hero despite 2 of the 7 characters on there... being Hero... Why not just post the other 5 characters and nothing regarding Hero?

This was announced. And given it's meant to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the series, which is this year, saying it'd be a 2022 game is kinda crazy.

I don't follower Nier so I wouldn't know. Yeah it's totally possible, but I still think Geno has more things going for him than 2B does. 2B also still has the whole "Mai couldn't even get in as a cameo with Terry" thing going against her, so... idk.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I don't follower Nier so I wouldn't know. Yeah it's totally possible, but I still think Geno has more things going for him than 2B does. 2B also still has the whole "Mai couldn't even get in as a cameo with Terry" thing going against her, so... idk.

without getting too off topic, 2B isnt even as extream as Mai. She could pass with some shorts, Mai has to have a whole new outfit

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm just going to quick say there's a misunderstanding of the Seven Squares. All it means is they thought Geno was worth something when putting him on leakbait.

Otherwise, no, it's not really useful information. It means they acknowledge him enough for leakbait. Does this mean anything beyond that? Yeah, no. It doesn't. So they're thinking of him. But considering that Smash Ultimate literally has Geno as a Spirit, that means he's active enough to justify adding to the leakbait. Easy.

As for ARMS, the only thing we can be sure of is no surprise Echoes. We're getting 6 and that's it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

without getting too off topic, 2B isnt even as extream as Mai. She could pass with some shorts, Mai has to have a whole new outfit

It’s not even JUST Mai’s outfit, strictly speaking. Her battle stance is focused around fanservice with her... bazongas bouncing side to side

Mai’s whole character was designed around sex appeal, 2B’s wasn’t

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You have no idea what the conditions for this Switch was. It could have easily been a company Switch that notifies someone else when it goes online or if the microSD is tampered with. The safest thing would be using an outside device that doesn't connect to the system in any way (I wouldn't even risk a game capture device). That's an easy way to get ****canned immediately.

Either way, it shows the footage isn't perfect, so any attempts to replicate it would likely not be perfect either.

"pretty dang close" means nothing when there's that awful clipping issue.

If that's the only thing wrong with is, considering how long that picture existed, I'd say it was a very good showcase that it can be faked.

If you think it means nothing, your expectations are just way too high.

I mean, no, I can't refute that. I don't know why or how it's still up. I don't think the second bit of what you said is necessarily correct though. Even having their content up, it's still Smash-related and I'd assume Nintendo to be the only one who can take those down. Regardless though, again, I don't know how it's still up.

I can tell you why it's still up; because it's fake. Simple as that.

But hey, if you have a massive list of arguments, then having one or two being invalidated shouldn't be a huge hit.

The only thing CacoMallow being fake deconfirms is the specific video itself. And that leak never really outright said Geno or Doomguy would be upcoming DLC characters. That's purely fan assumption, so CacoMallow being fake doesn't affect Geno's chances because it never did.

Maybe a Cacodemon hat and Mallow hat are being worked on, maybe not. I can't claim one way or the other and neither can you because we aren't part of the development team. That's the magic of speculation; no one truly knows what's really going on.

You compared giving Mallow and Geno's moves to each other when they're like 95%+ different compared to characters that are 95% similar. You also are still making this argument despite Simon and Richter existing in Smash how they are. I'm sorry but at this point we'll just have to agree to disagree because there's no point in going in circles.

I'll be honest, I went overboard with that one, but like, my KoF and Street Fighter examples was pretty much the exact same situation as ARMS and you admitted not having played those games, so my entire point with those completely fell apart.

With that in mind, I tried (and failed) to make a more relatable example.

I'm sorry for that one.

Sephiroth? Yes. Tifa? I just don't see that happening. Anything is possible, sure, but I really don't think that would be the case. Tifa doesn't have nearly the same fanbase as Sephiroth does, and even then, Cloud is still in the game.

You don't see Tifa happening? A character that is almost always brought in almost anything FF7 crosses over with. like Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts and others?

Sure, all my two examples are Square Enix stuff, but it still shows that Square cares a lot about Tifa.

But they didn't bother to put her on the list the first time?

They also owned her last year and the year before that, and most definitely the last 10 years
before that. In fact, they've owned her since 2003, and yet they still didn't bother to put her on the list.

I'm not a Square employee, and even if I were, I'd probably still not know how to answer that because this information is likely reserved only to higher-ups, but if I had to make a guess, they own a lot of IPs yet probably figured seven characters was enough.

100% leakbait to hide Hero despite 2 of the 7 characters on there... being Hero... Why not just post the other 5 characters and nothing regarding Hero?

They probably knew about the "Brave" datamine and figured it'd be too obvious if there was no Hero in their leakbait list?

I don't follower Nier so I wouldn't know. Yeah it's totally possible, but I still think Geno has more things going for him than 2B does. 2B also still has the whole "Mai couldn't even get in as a cameo with Terry" thing going against her, so... idk.

Using Mai as an excuse for characters like that never fails to bother me because the point never seems to get across.

Mai's entire character design is purely about being lewd with her massive jiggling... things that aren't for good boys and girls.

Characters like 2B or, for an example already in Smash, Bayonetta (who gets 95% naked in her games at some points, btw), are not defined by how little they wear, so censoring them does not completely ruin what the character is about like it would for Mai.

That's why Sakurai didn't add Mai. Because he really cares about the characters and would rather not see Mai than ruin her entire character just to get her as a cameo that isn't even guaranteed to appear consistently.

"Mai can't even get a cameo" is an apples and oranges excuse that's used to shut down characters like 2B even though a character who is arguably worse than them is already in the roster.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I know reading sarcasm or tones in general on the internet is hit or miss, but are you attacking me or something? Something about this response feels off. Maybe it's just me.

I don't know why they would think that having both of them be costumes would be a good idea, either, nor did I say that I feel like that's a likely outcome. I suppose I'm just a little wary of Nintendo in general, since about 2011, so I'm still thinking of it as a possibility.

I apologize if it came across that way. I was actually legitimately praising your ability to summarize the issue in one cohesive paragraph (something I am terrible at because I ramble). I'm really sorry if it seemed disingenuous, because it was really truly meant to be a compliment despite me being prone to sarcasm and proceeding to talk about the subject anyway after agreeing it didn't need to be discussed further lol.

Edit: also I do try to put things like lol or Pacman to let people know if I'm being facetious or overly sarcastic. A lot of the confusion likely stems from the fact that only my first sentence was actually directed towards you and the rest was just my general thoughts.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, no, I can't refute that. I don't know why or how it's still up. I don't think the second bit of what you said is necessarily correct though. Even having their content up, it's still Smash-related and I'd assume Nintendo to be the only one who can take those down. Regardless though, again, I don't know how it's still up.

No, it's still correct. It's Id Software(I think they're the owner, not Betheseda?) and Square-Enix are under the exact same agreement. They all matter. It's their IP. Anybody leaking their IP is bad business too. They will absolutely care if Nintendo doesn't take action. Think of it like this; they let Nintendo publish a new Doom game and it gets leaked on youtube. Nintendo doesn't care enough to actually do anything about it. It's a massive breach of trust between companies.

And nobody's going to break that trust if they want to continue doing business.

That said, as noted, we could still get a Cacodemon costume and a Mallow costume. But those ones aren't it. Let's keep in mind I didn't fully understand NDA's till later on. I wasn't sure if an NDA for unused content(I.E. Proof of concept, meaning it doesn't actually get used in the end) exist too. Then that website leak came along and that confirmed my suspicions. That's what put me on team fake. There's no way around the fact Nintendo, nor Square-Enix, nor Betheseda/Id Software took action. They can and will, and all of them have the right to since they're part of the full NDA agreement. Nobody gets to leak anything. They have to negotiate to even move a date back or forward. It's that complicated. Sometimes a company will be allowed to show stuff early and it takes a "sure why not" too. With the pandemic going around, companies are going to actually be less strict so they can all make bank. It makes sense. As for an NDA, since signing it in person is kind of difficult now, it'd be done via online forms lately, but they're super simple to do at that point. You sometimes just have to take the original agreement, slightly change a few words, take a few moments to discuss(or hours, depending on the details), and voila.

 

[Polarthief]

Either way, it shows the footage isn't perfect, so any attempts to replicate it would likely not be perfect either.

Which is fine, but just the problem with the clipping is what's wigging me out. I'm not expecting a perfect replication, just good enough to where it's not outright sloppy.

If that's the only thing wrong with is, considering how long that picture existed, I'd say it was a very good showcase that it can be faked.

If you think it means nothing, your expectations are just way too high.

*shrug* I just think if one modder can do it, then others should be able to as well.

But hey, if you have a massive list of arguments, then having one or two being invalidated shouldn't be a huge hit.

I'm aware, but I'm still going to defend them for the sake of defending them.

The only thing CacoMallow being fake deconfirms is the specific video itself. And that leak never really outright said Geno or Doomguy would be upcoming DLC characters. That's purely fan assumption, so CacoMallow being fake doesn't affect Geno's chances because it never did.

Maybe a Cacodemon hat and Mallow hat are being worked on, maybe not. I can't claim one way or the other and neither can you because we aren't part of the development team. That's the magic of speculation; no one truly knows what's really going on.

Except I do not see a Mallow costume coming w/o Geno being playable. That would just be beyond stupid to do. Mallow is significantly less popular and a Geno costume will not cut it as "consolation" this time around. It did in 4, it won't work again.

You don't see Tifa happening? A character that is almost always brought in almost anything FF7 crosses over with. like Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts and others? Sure, all my two examples are Square Enix stuff, but it still shows that Square cares a lot about Tifa.

They care a hell of a lot more about Sephiroth though. I don't know why they would swoop around him for her (not like I want either of them anyway). All your examples are also examples that had Sephiroth, some of them before Tifa, such as the original Dissidia for example started with Cloud and Sephiroth. Regardless, Cloud >= Sephiroth > every other FF character (to varying degrees) in Square's eyes.

I'm not a Square employee, and even if I were, I'd probably still not know how to answer that because this information is likely reserved only to higher-ups, but if I had to make a guess, they own a lot of IPs yet probably figured seven characters was enough.

Fair enough I guess.

They probably knew about the "Brave" datamine and figured it'd be too obvious if there was no Hero in their leakbait list?

Except there were a handful of other guesses; even Banjo-Kazooie was one of them.

Using Mai as an excuse for characters like that never fails to bother me because the point never seems to get across.

Mai's entire character design is purely about being lewd with her massive jiggling... things that aren't for good boys and girls.

Characters like 2B or, for an example already in Smash, Bayonetta (who gets 95% naked in her games at some points, btw), are not defined by how little they wear, so censoring them does not completely ruin what the character is about.

"Mai can't even get a cameo" is an apples and oranges excuse that's used to shut down characters like 2B even though a character who is arguably worse than them is already in the roster.

For the record, I'm parroting what I've heard others say since I don't even know the characters, and that's fair. I still do think that Geno has more going for him than any other SE character. There's just so many coincidences and circumstantial evidence that points to him over Sephiroth/another FF7 characterr (FF7R and Square loves to circlejerk FF7), 2B (Nier is popular and getting a remaster), or Lara Croft (somewhat popular series, old school icon). Also I won't even touch on Sora because he's in a whole different world with Disney.

<snip cuz big>

Which is totally fair, I'm just curious how the overall thing is so clean and modders can't replicate it. That's why I'm still not convinced. Maybe it's a mix of wishful thinking and just wanting as many things as possible for Geno because I know at the end of the day I don't have anything concrete. I've said repeatedly that Geno's evidence has been more quantity over quality and that each individual piece doesn't mean all that much, but it's the power of having so much more than any other character that has me convinced he's coming. Yeah, CacoMallow could totally be fake at the end of the day, and Geno can still come.

Regardless though, all we have are our own assumptions and until something is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt proven fake, I'm going to leave it on the list.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I'm just going to quick say there's a misunderstanding of the Seven Squares. All it means is they thought Geno was worth something when putting him on leakbait.

Otherwise, no, it's not really useful information. It means they acknowledge him enough for leakbait. Does this mean anything beyond that? Yeah, no. It doesn't. So they're thinking of him. But considering that Smash Ultimate literally has Geno as a Spirit, that means he's active enough to justify adding to the leakbait. Easy.

As for ARMS, the only thing we can be sure of is no surprise Echoes. We're getting 6 and that's it.

I don't think you (or a lot of people for that matter) understand the concept or purpose of leakbait. A character like Geno goes against everything that using leakbait tries to accomplish. He is one of the single most talked about characters when it comes to Smash DLC and is on nearly 50% of the hundreds of fake leaks made per day. Using such a popular character as leakbait makes it harder for the company to narrow down employees that are leaking, not easier.

It's also pretty strange a concept in general to think that a company would purposefully let out their most popular name (with regards to Smash) as a fake only for them to add an entirely different character that is less wanted. It's counterproductive and gets causes unnecesary riots from let down fans. Remember how hard people **** on the final pre-release Ultimate presentation once the Grinch Leak set expectations ridiculously high? That's what using Geno as bait would accomplish. That's like using Ridley as leakbait to protect Rundas from getting out

 

[MattX20]

If Geno's Mii Costume showed up during the 2nd wave of Mii Fighter costumes for DLC, it would've been the end of our speculation cycle for Geno's chances. The fact it didn't show up is a main reason why most of us are still hopeful for his chances, even with the spirit of him in the base game on top of Sakurai's comments for Nintendo Dream in February 2016

 

[Nicnac]

If you truly believe CacoMallow is real despite Nintendo not taking down the video, expect to never see any Square or Bethesda content on Nintendo platforms for a long while, if not forever. Because that would be the other action Nintendo would take if not outright take down the video.

Generally I think you're making solid points here, but I'm not 100% sure this one is concrete. Stuff has been leaked for Smash for more than a while now and companies involved continue to produce content that ends up on Nintendo platforms. The Ken Leak on Moray Towers wasn't taken down by Nintendo and was indeed proven to be real in the end. However, Capcom has continued to put stuff on Nintendo consoles since- the collection of Devil May Cry games comes to mind, and a Capcom character is heavily speculated/rumoured for this pass. On top of this, speaking logistically, I highly doubt that a Smash leak would lead to a company severing ties with a console entirely.

You don't see Tifa happening? A character that is almost always brought in almost anything FF7 crosses over with. like Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts and others?

Sure, all my two examples are Square Enix stuff, but it still shows that Square cares a lot about Tifa.

Nah, dude, I think if we got another FF7 character it'd be Sep. I'd say he's more iconic than Tifa and more requested too (even if neither are huge fan picks). Then again, I may be biased because I really want One-Winged Angel in Smash. Also, Sephiroth is in Dissidia, Kingdom Hearts and others as well. That's not necessarily a great point when Sephiroth cameos more than Tifa outside of FF as well (Sephiroth's "Other Appearances" page on the FF wiki has six articles on Sephiroth in non-FF games, while Tifa's only has five.)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

*shrug* I just think if one modder can do it, then others should be able to as well.

The world isn't really so simple.

Replicating something without knowing how it's made in the first place won't lead to the exact same results from everyone.

Modders aren't always possessing the same skills as each other either. Some could be better at handling models and utterly suck at jiggle physics (because the Mallow hat has those) and the other way around is possible too.

No two modder has an identical set of skills and specialties, so it's really not surprising that other modders can't quite to it right.

I'm aware, but I'm still going to defend them for the sake of defending them.

Which is fair enough.

Except I do not see a Mallow costume coming w/o Geno being playable. That would just be beyond stupid to do. Mallow is significantly less popular and a Geno costume will not cut it as "consolation" this time around. It did in 4, it won't work again.

Either way, this is purely a fan assumption.

I will admit that getting Mallow as a costume and Geno being nothing more than a Spirit would be a strange scenario, and the fact that we've spent so long without a Geno costume is also very weird, but here's a theory.

It's possible Square may have only agreed for him to be a Spirit for base game, and with the first Pass decided before the game's release, his chances of being a costume for the first year of Ultimate would be nonexistent in that case. With how Sakurai implied it took a lot just to get Cloud back, showing that Square is pretty stingy, it wouldn't be surprised to see Square be that stingy over Geno for base game and the first Pass.

With Pass 2, anything can happen. He could be a character, he could be a costume, or even just not show up. It's all up to whether Nintendo and Square agrees on it.

They care a hell of a lot more about Sephiroth though. I don't know why they would swoop around him for her (not like I want either of them anyway). All your examples are also examples that had Sephiroth, some of them before Tifa, such as the original Dissidia for example started with Cloud and Sephiroth. Regardless, Cloud >= Sephiroth > every other FF character (to varying degrees) in Square's eyes.

The original Dissidia had a heroes vs villains theme, bringing only one protagonist and one antagonist from each of the first ten FF games (and two bonus characters from XI and XII who also follow that theme, one being a hero and the other a villain).

In that context, bringing Tifa in the original Dissidia made absolutely no sense whatsoever because it would break the theme.

If you want an obscure example of my point, Ehrgeiz is a good one. Tifa was in the original arcade alongside Cloud, but Sephiroth was only added in console versions which came later.

As for Kingdom Hearts, Tifa actually mattered to the plot, having a part where she wants Sora to help her find Cloud, while Sephiroth is a bonus boss. You could spend a whole playthrough not seeing Sephiroth, but you'd be unable to avoid Tifa and Cloud.

Almost any other appearances have Tifa and Sephiroth appear at the same time.

The only time where Sephiroth mattered more than Tifa (aside from the original Dissidia due to its theme) is Dissidia NT, and even then she still made it in.

Except there were a handful of other guesses; even Banjo-Kazooie was one of them.

From our perspective, it's true that there were more guesses, but with how bad NDAs can be, the very idea that someone could figure out that brave was a DQ Hero probably forced them to take this into consideration.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think you (or a lot of people for that matter) understand the concept or purpose of leakbait. A character like Geno goes against everything that using leakbait tries to accomplish. He is one of the single most talked about characters when it comes to Smash DLC and is on nearly 50% of the hundreds of fake leaks made per day. Using such a popular character as leakbait makes it harder for the company to narrow down employees that are leaking, not easier.

You misunderstand it then. The actual bait is Erdrick/Luminary/Slime. The rest are just obvious additions so it'll spread around. They can't really have a leakbait list if they only list those who are planning to be in via DLC. They need fake pieces to to make it work as a list.

Also, I removed the other stuff I replied to cause I feel it wouldn't land to a fruitful discussion. More or less, "single most popular" is very arguable. I'm not going to argue it, that said. Also, that said, I feel like it'd lead into a Smash Bubble argument, and that's not fun to get into.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The Ken Leak on Moray Towers wasn't taken down by Nintendo and was indeed proven to be real in the end. However, Capcom has continued to put stuff on Nintendo consoles since- the collection of Devil May Cry games comes to mind, and a Capcom character is heavily speculated/rumoured for this pass. On top of this, speaking logistically, I highly doubt that a Smash leak would lead to a company severing ties with a console entirely.

Moptimus pointed out that this was a 4chan leak, which is completely anonymous and whoever did the leak cannot be tracked.

As a result, Nintendo likely doesn't bother because it'd be pointless to try and take action when they have no idea where the leak comes from.

Could be from Capcom, could be from Nintendo, could be from Bandai Namco. Hell, it could even be Sakurai himself! We don't know who did it and never will, so trying to take down whoeveer did it is the equivalent of trying to shoot an arrow while blindfolded after spinning around 20 times.

 

[Firox]

PS: The moral of the Grinch Leak is that is why I'm always going to be a pessimist after being burned too many times by optimism. Every time I ever have a little faith in something, I just always get massively disappointed. It's why I'm so harshly critical of Origami King. If it actually proves me wrong, I get to be pleasantly surprised and excited for it, and if it doesn't, well, my expectations are that it's going to be bad, so I don't get disappointed. Inb4 the last thing I'm optimistic for (Geno's chances) end up burning me too, leaving me as a jaded husk at age 30.

Dude, I totally feel you on this. I used to wonder why older people were usually so jaded and grumpy toward newer things but the older I get, the more I understand why that is. You see, when you've been around awhile and seen what "good" is SUPPOSED to look like, you can more easily recognize when something is just a ****ty cash grab. You can recognize good music and artists from corporately synthesized, fake pop idols, Paper Mario Classic from Sticker Star, Metroid Prime from Other M, and Star Fox 64 from Star Fox Zero. When you see something miss the mark again...and again...and again...you just start to get tired of disappointment. I guess that's why it's so easy for people to find negatively in life as opposed to positivity. Positivity can only come through two means: Blind, naive optimism from unrealistic expectations....or through work and sheer willpower. That kind of positivity isn't a feeling, it's a decision. You have to either find a realistic balance of expectations or simply find the providence in what you DO have rather than mull over what you DON'T. That said, we have good reason to hope for Geno. His chances are better than ever no matter how people slice it....and that seriously counts for something.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Moptimus pointed out that this was a 4chan leak, which is completely anonymous and whoever did the leak cannot be tracked.

As a result, Nintendo likely doesn't bother because it'd be pointless to try and take action when they have no idea where the leak comes from.

Could be from Capcom, could be from Nintendo, could be from Bandai Namco. Hell, it could even be Sakurai himself! We don't know who did it and never will, so trying to take down whoeveer did it is the equivalent of trying to shoot an arrow while blindfolded after spinning around 20 times.

...Maybe I edited my post too early, then.

But yeah, to clarify, being anonymous is why almost anything on 4chan will never be taken down. That's because they can't track it, 4chan doesn't have any kind of posting rule for leaks(as 99% are fake anyway), and it erases its post in due time. Just taking down the leak is not enough. They have to actually go after the person who leaked it, as they broke NDA. Or their source did. They need to track it all to catch the leaker, and fire/arrest/sue them depending upon the situation.

Leaking is very serious business for all companies. It's a massive breach of trust. Basically.

 

[Sigran101]

My thing with Cacomallow is this. If I'm a crazy good modder who can make official quality smash content by myself, I'm not going to just make a fake leak. I'm going to show everyone my skill, attach my name to it, and become the biggest name in the modding community.

People make fake leaks for two reasons. First, to become internet famous. Cacomallow is anonymous and if it's fake the person could be more famous by just making mods.

The second reason is to mess with the fanbase. If the leaker wanted to screw with doomguy and Geno fans, they'd have made Geno and Doomguy costumes, not Cacodamon and Mallow which don't even mean anything definitive for either character.

There's just no reason for it to be fake.

 

[Nicnac]

Moptimus pointed out that this was a 4chan leak, which is completely anonymous and whoever did the leak cannot be tracked.

As a result, Nintendo likely doesn't bother because it'd be pointless to try and take action when they have no idea where the leak comes from.

Could be from Capcom, could be from Nintendo, could be from Bandai Namco. Hell, it could even be Sakurai himself! We don't know who did it and never will, so trying to take down whoeveer did it is the equivalent of trying to shoot an arrow while blindfolded after spinning around 20 times.

Did Cacomallow not originate on 4chan as well? A quick peek at the Smash Wiki's list of rumours tells me it was posted on 4chan and gives an archive link to the thread (provided here).

 

[Deleted member]

My thing with Cacomallow is this. If I'm a crazy good modder who can make official quality smash content by myself, I'm not going to just make a fake leak. I'm going to show everyone my skill, attach my name to it, and become the biggest name in the modding community.

People make fake leaks for two reasons. First, to become internet famous. Cacomallow is anonymous and if it's fake the person could be more famous by just making mods.

The second reason is to mess with the fanbase. If the leaker wanted to screw with doomguy and Geno fans, they'd have made Geno and Doomguy costumes, not Cacodamon and Mallow which don't even mean anything definitive for either character.

There's just no reason for it to be fake.

The Grinch Leak was fake, and it's still unknown who made it.

Cacodemon and Mallow still give both fanbases a chance of hope, the costumes could be in because there's Geno or Doom Slayer. The "leaker" could just be trying to toy with people, but maybe they enjoy it a little bit more when the communities for those characters are only given a sliver of hope.

Also modding in an entire character would be far more difficult then just making a hat, even if it was just a model swap, that would need to be an entire new model for that character to be convincing, meanwhile a hat is only a portion of a character, meaning it's far easier to create and mod into the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Did Cacomallow not originate on 4chan as well? A quick peek at the Smash Wiki's list of rumours tells me it was posted on 4chan and gives an archive link to the thread (provided here).

Yes. But it wasn't really notable for any companies cause it isn't really easy to tell it exists outside of Youtube, where it's basically everywhere by that point.

A 4chan post can't go viral. So basically, the Youtube user who posted it can literally be tracked. The person at 4chan cannot be tracked. Take a guess which one they can take legal against? That's the answer to it. Legal action is why Youtube leaks are taken down.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My thing with Cacomallow is this. If I'm a crazy good modder who can make official quality smash content by myself, I'm not going to just make a fake leak. I'm going to show everyone my skill, attach my name to it, and become the biggest name in the modding community.

People make fake leaks for two reasons. First, to become internet famous. Cacomallow is anonymous and if it's fake the person could be more famous by just making mods.

The second reason is to mess with the fanbase. If the leaker wanted to screw with doomguy and Geno fans, they'd have made Geno and Doomguy costumes, not Cacodamon and Mallow which don't even mean anything definitive for either character.

There's just no reason for it to be fake.

Second reason shouldn't be ruled out entirely.

I mean, the fact that a Cacodemon and Mallow were costumes led to people thinking it'd mean Geno and Doomguy, did it not?

If that leak is a troll, it's a pretty big brain troll.

It also takes less time to make just a hat compared to an entire costume.

 

[Fatmanonice]

On the ongoing topic of debating Geno, I don't really do it a lot anymore just because I've been doing it for 15 years now and it's just kind of tiresome. I've been arguing it since last summer but, based on everything, Geno's chances tank if he doesn't show up in the first half of Season 2 so we're likely only 3 months at most knowing Geno's fate anyways. Doing this for so long, I've seen my fair share of Gish Galloping, concern trolling, sealioning, and debates honestly started in bad faith and it's not worth retreading everything that's come up in the last 5 years whenever someone says boo about Geno, especially in the light that a vast majority of fanbases haven't been required to defend themselves even half as much for sticking with their character of choice. It predominantly tends to boil down to "I don't get Geno's appeal" or "I don't like him" anyways so, at this stage of the game, it really doesn't matter because most people likely drew their lines in the sand on the topic years ago anyways.

 

[MattX20]

On the ongoing topic of debating Geno, I don't really do it a lot anymore just because I've been doing it for 15 years now and it's just kind of tiresome. I've been arguing it since last summer but, based on everything, Geno's chances tank if he doesn't show up in the first half of Season 2 so we're likely only 3 months at most knowing Geno's fate anyways. Doing this for so long, I've seen my fair share of Gish Galloping, concern trolling, sealioning, and debates honestly started in bad faith and it's not worth retreading everything that's come up in the last 5 years whenever someone says boo about Geno, especially in the light that a vast majority of fanbases haven't been required to defend themselves even half as much for sticking with their character of choice. It predominantly tends to boil down to "I don't get Geno's appeal" or "I don't like him" anyways so, at this stage of the game, it really doesn't matter because most people likely drew their lines in the sand on the topic years ago anyways.

Exactly. At this point, it's just a waiting game to see who's right and who's wrong for quite a few. Been a Geno supporter since at least 2007, not as long as others, but still willing to see this through to the end.

 

[MrJudd]

I think I'm gonna chime in Cacomallow and other Square Reps:
- The important detail about Cacomallow for me is how the costumes follow all the guidelines of how Mii Costumes work in Ultimate. Even with reverse engineering, it's almost impossible to determine what these are out of hand. It's like making a dish only knowing how it looks and tastes like. That being said, the current discussion with Cacomallow is not going anywhere to get us new information or improve the discussions as to real or fake.
- I don't think Geno is a 100% lock for the next Square rep, but people forget that Nintendo talked with Microsoft to get Banjo before Steve or Master Chief. Both of those characters are more popular, relevant and mainstream today, but Nintendo (not Sakurai, NINTENDO) went on to choose Banjo, a character from a dead franchise who has not had a game in a decade, because of the fans.
Let's wait and see...

 

[domriver]

On the ongoing topic of debating Geno, I don't really do it a lot anymore just because I've been doing it for 15 years now and it's just kind of tiresome. I've been arguing it since last summer but, based on everything, Geno's chances tank if he doesn't show up in the first half of Season 2 so we're likely only 3 months at most knowing Geno's fate anyways. Doing this for so long, I've seen my fair share of Gish Galloping, concern trolling, sealioning, and debates honestly started in bad faith and it's not worth retreading everything that's come up in the last 5 years whenever someone says boo about Geno, especially in the light that a vast majority of fanbases haven't been required to defend themselves even half as much for sticking with their character of choice. It predominantly tends to boil down to "I don't get Geno's appeal" or "I don't like him" anyways so, at this stage of the game, it really doesn't matter because most people likely drew their lines in the sand on the topic years ago anyways.

You nailed it sir.
Have a question for you guys.
Let just say in the event Geno doesn't get into the fighting game but Nintendo gives us a solid remake/sequel.
Forgiven? No Hard feelings?

For me I dont know ive been a longtime supporter just as long as Fatman though of course im much less vocal.
I think i would feel happy/sad not sure. hmmm.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

I think I'm gonna chime in Cacomallow and other Square Reps:
- The important detail about Cacomallow for me is how the costumes follow all the guidelines of how Mii Costumes work in Ultimate. Even with reverse engineering, it's almost impossible to determine what these are out of hand. It's like making a dish only knowing how it looks and tastes like. That being said, the current discussion with Cacomallow is not going anywhere to get us new information or improve the discussions as to real or fake.
- I don't think Geno is a 100% lock for the next Square rep, but people forget that Nintendo talked with Microsoft to get Banjo before Steve or Master Chief. Both of those characters are more popular, relevant and mainstream today, but Nintendo (not Sakurai, NINTENDO) went on to choose Banjo, a character from a dead franchise who has not had a game in a decade, because of the fans.
Let's wait and see...

i don't know, nintendo added to banjo because they know what phil spencer had said and they said "hey, phil spencer is open to banjo in smash, so we won't have to pay much for it", consider that nintendo said they were surprised by the great happiness of people to see playable banjo

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

You nailed it sir.
Have a question for you guys.
Let just say in the event Geno doesn't get into the fighting game but Nintendo gives us a solid remake/sequel.
Forgiven? No Hard feelings?

For me I dont know ive been a longtime supporter just as long as Fatman though of course im much less vocal.
I think i would feel happy/sad not sure. hmmm.

I'll absolutely take it, but if it were one or the other I'd choose Geno in Smash because I actually trust Sakurai to create a quality product and I don't necessarily trust Nintendo or whoever they enlist to make a quality remake/sequel. But I absolutely will take anything over nothing. Any exposure for Geno in the current market is a good thing unless he's tied to like literally the worst remake/sequel ever. At the very least I'd be so happy that Nintendo finally took the time and effort to make a remake/sequel and deemed SMRPG worthy of that time and effort. When waiting over two decades I do feel that we deserve the best quality product if we are to finally get something out of this beloved relic of a game so I wouldn't say that all would be forgiven if we got just a remake/sequel and it ended up being mediocre. But if it was a remake that captured all the charm of the original and added on in fun ways or a sequel that captured all the charm and contributed an amazing story with amazing characters and fun battles then yeah all is beyond forgiven as that's the true goal anyway.