Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Polarthief]

Hello! Any new information that points positive toward Geno joining the roster?

Depends how long you've been gone/how far behind you are.

 

[JarBear]

Man ... the ARMS rep reveal is the endgame. It will either shatter dreams or make them a reality. Or neutral, like a new character for the franchise VIA DLC or upcoming sequel or solely for Smash. We are talking about Nintendo here.

 

[StarLight42]

Depends how long you've been gone/how far behind you are.

Oh, I meant more recently. I saw a Fatmanonice “bad news” post but apparently it wasn’t actually bad news? Kinda lost. Just within the last 2/3 days or so

 

[Polarthief]

Oh, I meant more recently. I saw a Fatmanonice “bad news” post but apparently it wasn’t actually bad news? Kinda lost. Just within the last 2/3 days or so

Okay then nothing really. The June 12th Amiibo restock (originally April, but just yesterday got an official date of 6/12) just points to "Smash news on or before this day", but that means nothing for Geno specifically.

 

[OffBi]

huh, it seems that enemies can move around the ring.

 

[CannonStreak]

Okay then nothing really. The June 12th Amiibo restock (originally April, but just yesterday got an official date of 6/12) just points to "Smash news on or before this day", but that means nothing for Geno specifically.

I’d say it is before that day. I can’t remember when Amiibos were released on the same day as they were announced.

 

[Spatulo]

View attachment 272248
huh, it seems that enemies can move around the ring.

There’s gotta be moves that hit in different patterns. We know jump is a line, I’m guessing hammer is like a 2x2 square

 

[Firox]

Man ... the ARMS rep reveal is the endgame. It will either shatter dreams or make them a reality. Or neutral, like a new character for the franchise VIA DLC or upcoming sequel or solely for Smash. We are talking about Nintendo here.

You know what? I think it's for this very reason that they didn't unveil who the ARMS rep is going to be in the first place. Sakurai is probably well aware of what will happen when spirits/AT are proven NOT to deconfirm. That's why the timing is beyond perfect for Geno. Could you just imagine? If we get Springman, RibbonGirl or Min Min, everyone will be like, "OOOOOH ****, SPIRITS DON'T DECONFIRM! THAT MEANS THAT...."

(Geno Trailer starts)

"No ****ing way..."

(Geno's silhouette flashes past the screen)

"OH MY GOSH! IT'S! IT'S!!!!......"

(Splash screen)

"GENOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Geez, I'm getting hyped just thinking about it.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

If

Tomorrow we could get one of the following announcements:

- Follow up to the Paper Mario: The Origami King reveal focusing on major aspects of gameplay (combat)
- Metroid Prime Trilogy shadow-announcement
- Pikmin 3 "Deluxe" shadow-announcement
- Super Mario All-Stars 2 shadow-announcement
- Resurrected franchise game shadow-announcement (least likely tho...? imo)

If I had to hazard a guess I would say that: IF there is another big announcement tomorrow, that it won’t be Mario related since we just got Mario LEGO’s announced today and Paper Mario announced last week.

My money is on a Pikmin 3 reveal.

 

[Powerman293]

You know what? I think it's for this very reason that they didn't unveil who the ARMS rep is going to be in the first place. Sakurai is probably well aware of what will happen when spirits/AT are proven NOT to deconfirm. That's why the timing is beyond perfect for Geno. Could you just imagine? If we get Springman, RibbonGirl or Min Min, everyone will be like, "OOOOOH ****, SPIRITS DON'T DECONFIRM! THAT MEANS THAT...."

(Geno Trailer starts)

"No ****ing way..."

(Geno's silhouette flashes past the screen)

"OH MY GOSH! IT'S! IT'S!!!!......"

(Splash screen)

"GENOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Geez, I'm getting hyped just thinking about it.

Reactions will be either this or laughing in spite like Byleth

 

[axel_]

Polarthief As far as The List™ goes, there's the SNK content fiasco that happened. I remember the same guy also posted a list for some things that would come with Terry, listing off Kyo, Haohmaru, Geese, and some "Classic SNK". People thought it was bull**** when the Mii Costumes had none of those, but we figured out pretty quick he meant Terry's Spirit Board, which did have all of those characters (the "Classic SNK" being Athena, Clark and Ralf having their artwork from their very first games as opposed to Shinkiro KOF art), so it was true

Fatmanonice most likely has more details on it, and an image of the Discord DMs.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Big announcement for this week? Probably Pikmin 3 or the Mario Remakes. I get the feeling that June is when they're going to drop the big bombshells, maybe do something like an "E3 week" where they reveal **** everyday for a week.

 

[Vector Victor]

Big announcement for this week? Probably Pikmin 3 or the Mario Remakes. I get the feeling that June is when they're going to drop the big bombshells, maybe do something like an "E3 week" where they reveal **** everyday for a week.

Nintendo: 'We start this E3 week on Monday with Smash news.'
Public: 'WHOOOOO, New content! Let's go and celebrate!'
Nintendo: 'Wait, come back. We have news of other non-Smash things this week.'
Public: 'Yea that's nice.'

 

[Fatmanonice]

Nintendo: 'We start this E3 week on Monday with Smash news.'
Public: 'WHOOOOO, New content! Let's go and celebrate!'
Nintendo: 'Wait, come back. We have news of other non-Smash things this week.'
Public: 'Yea that's nice.'

I'm interested to see how Nintendo does it because, come to think of it, dragging out all the major announcements throughout the summer would be kind of nuts. I'm expecting "the Big Ones™" to be semi close together because, for example, announcing the first 2D console Metroid in 26 years one week and then the long awaited third DKCR platformer the next would be kind of torturous, to be honest.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I usually don't really hang out here and, to be honest, I'm pretty neutral on Geno. Would be cool if he was in, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if he wasn't, but I saw a huge list of "chances" and I was curious to see if the stars really aligned for Geno (pun intended )

Spoiler

Mii Costume List Leak: Someone leaked a bunch of Mii costumes, and there were some SMRPG ones on there like Mallow and Smithy. Geno however is not on that list. If this leak is real, it most certainly points to Geno being playable because why would the only character from the game who actually did have a Mii costume in the past not get one for Ultimate?

The very same leaker who had that information also said Crash would be the last character of the first Fighters Pass.

I'd say this leak should be taken with a grain of salt until Crash gets revealed as a Fighter Pass 2 character, because it's possible whoever got that leak got the timing wrong, which wouldn't be the first time for Ultimate's DLC run.

Copyright Takedown Songs: Beware the Forest Mushrooms (Forest Maze, the place that everyone associats with Geno) and Battle Against an Armed Boss (Smithy Gang/2nd boss OST) were both copyright taken down, by Nintendo, who doesn't own the rights to either song, around E3 2019, roughly the time FP2 characters would be negotiated for.

It could also just be for a Mii costume that comes bundled with two songs. Or just Nintendo being dumb because them taking out songs from games published by them for no apparent reason is far from new.

Granted, could also be for a playable Geno, but it's not the only possibility.

CacoMallow Leak

I'm not even going to read that part because take a moment to think about this.

You think that Nintendo taking down SPRPG songs is a hint, right?

Wouldn't this video, following the same train of logic, also be taken down? Either by Nintendo, Bethesda or even the very stingy Square?

And yet, it's not. That video's been around for half a year, has gotten a lot of traction in that time and has yet to be taken down by any of the not one but THREE companies involved. And somehow, that is also a hint despite contradicting with your logic of the songs that were taken down for copyrights?

I'm just curious on what was your train of thought on that one because the fact that it's been watchable for so long makes it very hard to think it's real.

• Geno's Sm4sh Costume Remains AWOL: If Geno was just coming back in his Sm4sh costume, it would have been pushed with Hero's Mii costume wave, or just put back in the game by now. There's absolutely no point in delaying that costume any further if he's not intended to be made playable.

Or he could just be a costume later. If he's one of those who come with a song, we have yet to see one of those come with a character they fit with.

And that matters a lot because Cuphead was funded by Microsoft, yet his costume did not come along with the Microsoft character.

Geno's situation with Hero isn't the smae as Cuphead and Banjo, but it's still not too far off, as the only reason these two share a company is because Squaresoft, who owns Geno and Final Fantasy, and Enix, who owns Dragon Quest, merged in 2003. If they hadn't done that, this argument wouldn't even exist.

Sakurai's Approval of Geno since Brawl: Sakurai himself said the possessed doll fits in well for Smash. He tried to get him in as far back as Brawl, but for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

The reason was probably that Square and/or Nintendo said no.

And the reason he didn't make it yet is probably because Nintendo didn't suggest him, because they're the ones giving the suggestions for Ultimate's DLC run, not Sakurai.

Nintendo is Well Aware of Geno's (and Waluigi's) Fan Demand

Just because they're aware of something doesn't guarantee that we'll get what we want.

Just look at all the years we've spent not getting Mother 3 outside of the Japan and asking for it. Nintendo made jokes about it since 2014 to show that they knew we wanted it, but did we get it? Nope.

Of course, the opposite also happened, notably with K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo and others, so... I'd say it's a 50/50.

Smash Bros Legacy C&D: Smash Bros Legacy was taken down and had a few interesting characters in it, namely, Geno and Waluigi. This could mean that Nintendo doesn't want to have competition with something using their assets anyway.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything, honestly. Nintendo just really hates that we mod their stuff.

Heck, there's even been a case of someone having some of his videos copyright claimed by Nintendo even though there's nothing illegal about showing modded content.

That's how much they hate mods. So the Legacy team quitting could just be another Project M situation where they're deciding to quit because their thing is getting too much traction and could run a risk of having Nintendo sue them.

And it's not a C&D, by the way. They just stopped making it, or at least, that's all we know. Making stuff up isn't exactly what I'd call an argument.

2020's 2nd Half is Heavily Rumored to be Very Mario-Focused:

This doesn't guarantee Geno, honestly.

It could happen, but it's probably just about, y'know, Mario.

4chan post, Doomguy+Geno: A 4chan post was seen in early April, featuring Geno, Mallow, and Doomguy on Vista Hill, looking up to see Cacodemon on Exor. The post then namedrops the first 3 characters in FP2 all to be revealed in June: The ARMS rep being a Bowser Jr.-esque character having Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara; Doomguy, and then Geno.

That's just ridiculous and I'm baffled as to why people think we're going to get multiple characters as alts.

And for those who are about to say "bUt HeRo GoT iT", I'll just ask you one thing.

How would it feel to have Rock as a Terry alt? Or for Ryu to have had Ken, Akuma and Dan as alts back in Smash 4?

Would you say the alts are properly represented or would you think these characters were added without caring about how well the moveset would suit them? That the moveset they have is not the moveset they deserve to have?

Hero works because DQ protags are complete blank slates. And while there are certainly creative liberties with the spell list (doesn't help each Hero has a different spell list... or none at all for Erdrick, iirc), none of the spells are things you cannot do in DQ games because if the main hero doesn't have that spell, there's a party member who can.

So Hero's moveset is more about representing Dragon Quest as a whole and spice up the RNG with things like Thwack to make the character more unique. On the other hand, no two ARMS character play identically, have similar personalities or even similar body types (aside from Spring Man and Springtron for that third one), although the last one is something that can admiteddly be played around with without being too weird.

And if someone is like "BuT aRmS iS jUsT GeNeRiC pUnCh PuNCH", I'm just going to say that Sakurai has picked a character with zero moveset potential and managed to make him one of the most beloved characters in all of Smash; Captain Falcon. So he can absolutely make a moveset about an ARMS fighter that shows a lot of the chosen fighter's personality.

Seven Squares Leak: I had totally forgotten about this until I was recently reminded by [IMG]https://smashboards.com/data/avatars/s/0/844.jpg?1581803822[/IMG] Moptimus Prime (thank you!), but there was a leak quite awhile ago (even before base launch) that had a list of 7 Square Enix characters that were either "potential candidates", or potentially also leakbait.

This one is just completely and utterly irrelevant to the current day.

Seven Squares was Square Enix's way to give leakbait to people by throwing in a couple of fake names into the mix, covering up the actual one we'd get for the first Fighters Pass. With us getting Erdrick and Luminary, the other five were nothing more than bait. And you're somehow still biting it to this day.

Heck, Seven Squares is from December 2018, which is very likely long before any of the second Pass was ever fully settled on. It does not apply to this Pass.

Polish Amiibo Rerelease Leak: Thanks to Fatmanonice Fatmanonice for this one, sometime in early May 2020 (Fatman posted about it on May 9th), a Polish game retailer had posted a number of Amiibo available for preorder for a re-release on September 18th, including Mario, Luigi, and both Clouds (the important ones to note), as well as multiple Zelda characters... and finally Ryu (the odd one out of the bunch).

Maybe there's just demand for those amiibos and that's why there's restocks.

Heck, the fact that there are multiple Zelda characters and Ryu, which is likely more characters than Mario, Luigi and both Clouds combined, should show that people are just having some heavy tunnel vision when it comes to this restocking.

All it means is that there's demand for these amiibos. Nothing else.

None of the stuff I've said should be taken as me being a detractor who's trying to crush your hopes.

Anything I said that could be seen as negative is NOT countering Geno in Smash, but merely the arguments themselves, and should NOT be seen as me being anti-Geno.

I just felt like doing this because the current pandemic gives me too much free time lately, so I got bored and wanted to see how good the Geno arguments were since he's such a highly requested character among Smash fans.

 

[Deleted member]

If Mario RPG is part of that Mario anniversary collection this year maybe around that time?

 

["LC"_Lapen]

The one big detractor I'm feeling towards this whole presentation model of individual announcements vs. a full-on Direct or even Direct-mini, is that if Geno were to be revealed in this way, we'd be missing out on one key aspect that every other Smash anything got and something I've been looking forward to ever since it became a trend: a large crowd of people gathered in front of a screen at the Nintendo Store in New York losing their minds and having that reaction recorded to Youtube. Seeing everyone jump and hug at the return of Banjo and Kazooie is something I've wanted the SMRPG fans to experience as well, so it'd be a shame if we couldn't get it, I believe.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

If Mario RPG is part of that Mario anniversary collection this year maybe around that time?

What are you refering to, I don't understand?

The one big detractor I'm feeling towards this whole presentation model of individual announcements vs. a full-on Direct or even Direct-mini, is that if Geno were to be revealed in this way, we'd be missing out on one key aspect that every other Smash anything got and something I've been looking forward to ever since it became a trend: a large crowd of people gathered in front of a screen at the Nintendo Store in New York losing their minds and having that reaction recorded to Youtube. Seeing everyone jump and hug at the return of Banjo and Kazooie is something I've wanted the SMRPG fans to experience as well, so it'd be a shame if we couldn't get it, I believe.

yes, it is sad to think that Geno will not have a great reaction in the new york store, even more if it is a shadowdrop trailer like paper mario

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Mario RPG is part of that Mario anniversary collection this year maybe around that time?

It's been implied that the Mario collection is the 3D Marios so probably not.

 

[Deleted member]

I usually don't really hang out here and, to be honest, I'm pretty neutral on Geno. Would be cool if he was in, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if he wasn't, but I saw a huge list of "chances" and I was curious to see if the stars really aligned for Geno (pun intended )

Spoiler

The very same leaker who had that information also said Crash would be the last character of the first Fighters Pass.

I'd say this leak should be taken with a grain of salt until Crash gets revealed as a Fighter Pass 2 character, because it's possible whoever got that leak got the timing wrong, which wouldn't be the first time for Ultimate's DLC run.


It could also just be for a Mii costume that comes bundled with two songs. Or just Nintendo being dumb because them taking out songs from games published by them for no apparent reason is far from new.

Granted, could also be for a playable Geno, but it's not the only possibility.


I'm not even going to read that part because take a moment to think about this.

You think that Nintendo taking down SPRPG songs is a hint, right?

Wouldn't this video, following the same train of logic, also be taken down? Either by Nintendo, Bethesda or even the very stingy Square?

And yet, it's not. That video's been around for half a year, has gotten a lot of traction in that time and has yet to be taken down by any of the not one but THREE companies involved. And somehow, that is also a hint despite contradicting with your logic of the songs that were taken down for copyrights?

I'm just curious on what was your train of thought on that one because the fact that it's been watchable for so long makes it very hard to think it's real.


Or he could just be a costume later. If he's one of those who come with a song, we have yet to see one of those come with a character they fit with.

And that matters a lot because Cuphead was funded by Microsoft, yet his costume did not come along with the Microsoft character.

Geno's situation with Hero isn't the smae as Cuphead and Banjo, but it's still not too far off, as the only reason these two share a company is because Squaresoft, who owns Geno and Final Fantasy, and Enix, who owns Dragon Quest, merged in 2003. If they hadn't done that, this argument wouldn't even exist.


The reason was probably that Square and/or Nintendo said no.

And the reason he didn't make it yet is probably because Nintendo didn't suggest him, because they're the ones giving the suggestions for Ultimate's DLC run, not Sakurai.


Just because they're aware of something doesn't guarantee that we'll get what we want.

Just look at all the years we've spent not getting Mother 3 outside of the Japan and asking for it. Nintendo made jokes about it since 2014 to show that they knew we wanted it, but did we get it? Nope.

Of course, the opposite also happened, notably with K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo and others, so... I'd say it's a 50/50.


This doesn't necessarily mean anything, honestly. Nintendo just really hates that we mod their stuff.

Heck, there's even been a case of someone having some of his videos copyright claimed by Nintendo even though there's nothing illegal about showing modded content.

That's how much they hate mods. So the Legacy team quitting could just be another Project M situation where they're deciding to quit because their thing is getting too much traction and could run a risk of having Nintendo sue them.

And it's not a C&D, by the way. They just stopped making it, or at least, that's all we know. Making stuff up isn't exactly what I'd call an argument.


This doesn't guarantee Geno, honestly.

It could happen, but it's probably just about, y'know, Mario.


That's just ridiculous and I'm baffled as to why people think we're going to get multiple characters as alts.

And for those who are about to say "bUt HeRo GoT iT", I'll just ask you one thing.

How would it feel to have Rock as a Terry alt? Or for Ryu to have had Ken, Akuma and Dan as alts back in Smash 4?

Would you say the alts are properly represented or would you think these characters were added without caring about how well the moveset would suit them? That the moveset they have is not the moveset they deserve to have?

Hero works because DQ protags are complete blank slates. And while there are certainly creative liberties with the spell list (doesn't help each Hero has a different spell list... or none at all for Erdrick, iirc), none of the spells are things you cannot do in DQ games because if the main hero doesn't have that spell, there's a party member who can.

So Hero's moveset is more about representing Dragon Quest as a whole and spice up the RNG with things like Thwack to make the character more unique. On the other hand, no two ARMS character play identically, have similar personalities or even similar body types (aside from Spring Man and Springtron for that third one), although the last one is something that can admiteddly be played around with without being too weird.

And if someone is like "BuT aRmS iS jUsT GeNeRiC pUnCh PuNCH", I'm just going to say that Sakurai has picked a character with zero moveset potential and managed to make him one of the most beloved characters in all of Smash; Captain Falcon. So he can absolutely make a moveset about an ARMS fighter that shows a lot of the chosen fighter's personality.


This one is just completely and utterly irrelevant to the current day.

Seven Squares was Square Enix's way to give leakbait to people by throwing in a couple of fake names into the mix, covering up the actual one we'd get for the first Fighters Pass. With us getting Erdrick and Luminary, the other five were nothing more than bait. And you're somehow still biting it to this day.

Heck, Seven Squares is from December 2018, which is very likely long before any of the second Pass was ever fully settled on. It does not apply to this Pass.


Maybe there's just demand for those amiibos and that's why there's restocks.

Heck, the fact that there are multiple Zelda characters and Ryu, which is likely more characters than Mario, Luigi and both Clouds combined, should show that people are just having some heavy tunnel vision when it comes to this restocking.

All it means is that there's demand for these amiibos. Nothing else.

None of the stuff I've said should be taken as me being a detractor who's trying to crush your hopes.

Anything I said that could be seen as negative is NOT countering Geno in Smash, but merely the arguments themselves, and should NOT be seen as me being anti-Geno.

I just felt like doing this because the current pandemic gives me too much free time lately, so I got bored and wanted to see how good the Geno arguments were since he's such a highly requested character among Smash fans.

****** gun.* We don’t take to kindly to your kind around here better get to steppin. In all honesty welcome enjoy your stay and it’s fine to support who you want. Even if not Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

I usually don't really hang out here and, to be honest, I'm pretty neutral on Geno. Would be cool if he was in, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if he wasn't, but I saw a huge list of "chances" and I was curious to see if the stars really aligned for Geno (pun intended )

Spoiler

The very same leaker who had that information also said Crash would be the last character of the first Fighters Pass.

I'd say this leak should be taken with a grain of salt until Crash gets revealed as a Fighter Pass 2 character, because it's possible whoever got that leak got the timing wrong, which wouldn't be the first time for Ultimate's DLC run.


It could also just be for a Mii costume that comes bundled with two songs. Or just Nintendo being dumb because them taking out songs from games published by them for no apparent reason is far from new.

Granted, could also be for a playable Geno, but it's not the only possibility.


I'm not even going to read that part because take a moment to think about this.

You think that Nintendo taking down SPRPG songs is a hint, right?

Wouldn't this video, following the same train of logic, also be taken down? Either by Nintendo, Bethesda or even the very stingy Square?

And yet, it's not. That video's been around for half a year, has gotten a lot of traction in that time and has yet to be taken down by any of the not one but THREE companies involved. And somehow, that is also a hint despite contradicting with your logic of the songs that were taken down for copyrights?

I'm just curious on what was your train of thought on that one because the fact that it's been watchable for so long makes it very hard to think it's real.


Or he could just be a costume later. If he's one of those who come with a song, we have yet to see one of those come with a character they fit with.

And that matters a lot because Cuphead was funded by Microsoft, yet his costume did not come along with the Microsoft character.

Geno's situation with Hero isn't the smae as Cuphead and Banjo, but it's still not too far off, as the only reason these two share a company is because Squaresoft, who owns Geno and Final Fantasy, and Enix, who owns Dragon Quest, merged in 2003. If they hadn't done that, this argument wouldn't even exist.


The reason was probably that Square and/or Nintendo said no.

And the reason he didn't make it yet is probably because Nintendo didn't suggest him, because they're the ones giving the suggestions for Ultimate's DLC run, not Sakurai.


Just because they're aware of something doesn't guarantee that we'll get what we want.

Just look at all the years we've spent not getting Mother 3 outside of the Japan and asking for it. Nintendo made jokes about it since 2014 to show that they knew we wanted it, but did we get it? Nope.

Of course, the opposite also happened, notably with K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo and others, so... I'd say it's a 50/50.


This doesn't necessarily mean anything, honestly. Nintendo just really hates that we mod their stuff.

Heck, there's even been a case of someone having some of his videos copyright claimed by Nintendo even though there's nothing illegal about showing modded content.

That's how much they hate mods. So the Legacy team quitting could just be another Project M situation where they're deciding to quit because their thing is getting too much traction and could run a risk of having Nintendo sue them.

And it's not a C&D, by the way. They just stopped making it, or at least, that's all we know. Making stuff up isn't exactly what I'd call an argument.


This doesn't guarantee Geno, honestly.

It could happen, but it's probably just about, y'know, Mario.


That's just ridiculous and I'm baffled as to why people think we're going to get multiple characters as alts.

And for those who are about to say "bUt HeRo GoT iT", I'll just ask you one thing.

How would it feel to have Rock as a Terry alt? Or for Ryu to have had Ken, Akuma and Dan as alts back in Smash 4?

Would you say the alts are properly represented or would you think these characters were added without caring about how well the moveset would suit them? That the moveset they have is not the moveset they deserve to have?

Hero works because DQ protags are complete blank slates. And while there are certainly creative liberties with the spell list (doesn't help each Hero has a different spell list... or none at all for Erdrick, iirc), none of the spells are things you cannot do in DQ games because if the main hero doesn't have that spell, there's a party member who can.

So Hero's moveset is more about representing Dragon Quest as a whole and spice up the RNG with things like Thwack to make the character more unique. On the other hand, no two ARMS character play identically, have similar personalities or even similar body types (aside from Spring Man and Springtron for that third one), although the last one is something that can admiteddly be played around with without being too weird.

And if someone is like "BuT aRmS iS jUsT GeNeRiC pUnCh PuNCH", I'm just going to say that Sakurai has picked a character with zero moveset potential and managed to make him one of the most beloved characters in all of Smash; Captain Falcon. So he can absolutely make a moveset about an ARMS fighter that shows a lot of the chosen fighter's personality.


This one is just completely and utterly irrelevant to the current day.

Seven Squares was Square Enix's way to give leakbait to people by throwing in a couple of fake names into the mix, covering up the actual one we'd get for the first Fighters Pass. With us getting Erdrick and Luminary, the other five were nothing more than bait. And you're somehow still biting it to this day.

Heck, Seven Squares is from December 2018, which is very likely long before any of the second Pass was ever fully settled on. It does not apply to this Pass.


Maybe there's just demand for those amiibos and that's why there's restocks.

Heck, the fact that there are multiple Zelda characters and Ryu, which is likely more characters than Mario, Luigi and both Clouds combined, should show that people are just having some heavy tunnel vision when it comes to this restocking.

All it means is that there's demand for these amiibos. Nothing else.

None of the stuff I've said should be taken as me being a detractor who's trying to crush your hopes.

Anything I said that could be seen as negative is NOT countering Geno in Smash, but merely the arguments themselves, and should NOT be seen as me being anti-Geno.

I just felt like doing this because the current pandemic gives me too much free time lately, so I got bored and wanted to see how good the Geno arguments were since he's such a highly requested character among Smash fans.

We appreciate you not being anti-Geno, but we talked about these things and made arguments so many times, we’re probably not even interested debating again at this point at least for me personally. Sorry.

 

[Franco Geno]

It's been implied that the Mario collection is the 3D Marios so probably not.

Thanks Fatman you just broke me and Lord Woomy dreams
(Jokes aside, it's understandable why they're not adding it since it's a 3D collection though )

 

[Polarthief]

As far as The List™ goes, there's the SNK content fiasco that happened. I remember the same guy also posted a list for some things that would come with Terry, listing off Kyo, Haohmaru, Geese, and some "Classic SNK". People thought it was bull**** when the Mii Costumes had none of those, but we figured out pretty quick he meant Terry's Spirit Board, which did have all of those characters (the "Classic SNK" being Athena, Clark and Ralf having their artwork from their very first games as opposed to Shinkiro KOF art), so it was true

Sorry is this MCL or something? I'm confused how it relates back to Geno/The List™.

The very same leaker who had that information also said Crash would be the last character of the first Fighters Pass.

I'd say this leak should be taken with a grain of salt until Crash gets revealed as a Fighter Pass 2 character, because it's possible whoever got that leak got the timing wrong, which wouldn't be the first time for Ultimate's DLC run.

Virtually everyone was wrong about Byleth. Ninty was very anti-insider with both DLC 5 and the Q1 direct. They did a lot of ****ery is my guess. Also for the record, *everything* is taken with a grain of salt because it's leaks/coincidences/circumstantial evidence.

It could also just be for a Mii costume that comes bundled with two songs. Or just Nintendo being dumb because them taking out songs from games published by them for no apparent reason is far from new.

Sakurai's more than aware a costume (even premium) would not be a "consolation prize" like it was in Sm4sh. There's no reason to have delayed the costume this long. I'm also not commenting on the second bit of your point for this because *that's every piece of evidence*. I'm just arguing for your supposed Devil's Advocate argument.

I'm not even going to read that part because take a moment to think about this.

You think that Nintendo taking down SPRPG songs is a hint, right?

Wouldn't this video, following the same train of logic, also be taken down? Either by Nintendo, Bethesda or even the very stingy Square?

And yet, it's not. That video's been around for half a year, has gotten a lot of traction in that time and has yet to be taken down by any of the not one but THREE companies involved. And somehow, that is also a hint despite contradicting with your logic of the songs that were taken down for copyrights?

I'm just curious on what was your train of thought on that one because the fact that it's been watchable for so long makes it very hard to think it's real.

Songs are not leaks or evidence though. Them being taken down and then leading to Sans+MEGALOVANIA or Banjo-Kazooie however are a pattern/circumstantial evidence. A leak being taken down or not is still a leak, and you didn't even bother commenting on what's a massive piece of evidence. We have a video showing off a Cacodemon headpiece and a Mallow costume. We've had tons of modders try to replicate it and since the leak came about, not a single modder has been able to replicate it as cleanly. It being taken down or not has zero bearing, especially when there were repercussions over Grinch Leak, which was fake anyway.

TL;DRish: My train of logic is that songs mean nothing unless they're taken down. Leaks are still leaks regardless if taken down or not. I'd be willing to bet Ninteninjas are/have already hunting/hunted down the leaker if it's real. Why would they take it down and bring more attention to it? They did it with the songs because they had to maybe? Idk.

Or he could just be a costume later.

For what purpose? Why delay him? Also to circle back, why make a Mallow costume if Geno's gonna be costumed again anyway?

And the reason he didn't make it yet is probably because Nintendo didn't suggest him, because they're the ones giving the suggestions for Ultimate's DLC run, not Sakurai.

Uh... Nintendo's the one picking them. You cannot tell me Sakurai isn't able to give suggestions to them; there's no reason to think that way at all. Sure Nintendo can outright decline a character (like whoever Sakurai originally wanted for #5 and Nintendo said "No, you're gonna shill Byleth now"), but why in the hell would Sakurai not be allowed to make suggestions?

Also that's a bit of a tangent on the original point. The point was "Sakurai's Approval of Geno".

Just because they're aware of something doesn't guarantee that we'll get what we want.

*Silently points to his big flashing sign that says "Yes, I know everything on the list is circumstantial/potentially coincidences"*
The whole point of the list is to compile all the coincidences, which, when you have many of them, start to form a pattern.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything, honestly. Nintendo just really hates that we mod their stuff.

I'll be honest, this is the one I never felt great about putting on the list, but enough people at the time were saying it's a potential piece, so I slapped it on there. I won't even bother defending it because I have no clue what it is (and you did see the bright, bold, cyan note that said that too, yeah?).

This doesn't guarantee Geno, honestly.

*points at the sign* Nothing on the list is "guaranteeing" Geno.
Geno is also a Mario-universe character.

That's just ridiculous and I'm baffled as to why people think we're going to get multiple characters as alts.

I don't know why you would be "baffled". That sounds like someone trying to argue for the sake of an opposing opinion more than a Devil's Advocate which really makes me question if you're actually a general detractor or not.

Regardless, I'll just use your argument of "It's possible, but not a guarantee".

How would it feel to have Rock as a Terry alt? Or for Ryu to have had Ken, Akuma and Dan as alts back in Smash 4?

Who?/Perfectly fine but I haven't played SF so I wouldn't know/Who?

Would you say the alts are properly represented or would you think these characters were added without caring about how well the moveset would suit them? That the moveset they have is not the moveset they deserve to have?

Idk man, why does Simon have a slide and uppercut? Yeah he and Richter "echo" each other, but they still have the same moves so they may as well be alts of each other. Simon has moves that he *never had before*, which I would argue is an unfaithful recreation of his moveset in the past. That said, that doesn't mean Simon is a bad character overall (purely talking about the sake of representation, not gameplay), and honestly fleshes him out a bit more. I'd also argue Daisy with a Toad gives me a ton of "What???" thoughts, but it's overall still Daisy.

So, yes, I fully do think the ARMS rep could have multiple characters and still meld them into a Simon/Richter situation. Imagine Spring Man + Ribbon Girl who has an extra jump and a quicker fall (representing Ribbon Girl) and a boost when at low Stamina/high % (representing Spring Man). As for the rest of their moves, actually yes, they are the same "generic punch punch" and grabs. Even all the arms they can acquire, despite starting with different ones, can be obtained by every other character. Sorry, but when the characters are done this masterfully as Sakurai has done, your argument here is invalid.

This one is just completely and utterly irrelevant to the current day.

Seven Squares was Square Enix's way to give leakbait to people by throwing in a couple of fake names into the mix, covering up the actual one we'd get for the first Fighters Pass. With us getting Erdrick and Luminary, the other five were nothing more than bait. And you're somehow still biting it to this day.

Heck, Seven Squares is from December 2018, which is very likely long before any of the second Pass was ever fully settled on. It does not apply to this Pass.

"Happened long ago, it's not relevant anymore", oh my god how many times have we heard this regarding the copyright takedowns and CacoMallow?
Regardless, it's another piece of circumstantial evidence *points to sign, points to sign, POINTS TO SIGN*

Heck, the fact that there are multiple Zelda characters and Ryu, which is likely more characters than Mario, Luigi and both Clouds combined, should show that people are just having some heavy tunnel vision when it comes to this restocking.

*sign*

None of the stuff I've said should be taken as me being a detractor who's trying to crush your hopes.

Except the way you posted your arguments over things that we're fully aware are circumstantial/could be coincidental makes you seem just like the detractors that come in here with the same arguments. Point still stands, when you have a lot of coincidences, they start to line up and form patterns. You also didn't at all bother to argue against CacoMallow and instead went on a completely separate tangent that had nothing to do with anything. You also went against the, irrelevant, ARMS rep potentially being a Hero-style character because you think a moveset that mostly is "generic punch punch" and shared among all the ARMS fighters, couldn't possibly be repped well when we already have some fighters w/ alts/echoes that are represented fine, even if it's not a 100% accurate recreation of them, because it enhances the character.

You can claim to not be anti-Geno all you want, but why come into the thread just to try and debunk stuff?

 

[Firox]

We appreciate you not being anti-Geno, but we talked about these things and made arguments so many times, we’re probably not even interested debating again at this point at least for me personally. Sorry.

This. I'm surprised we haven't already compiled a "standard doubts and rebuttals" list to just throw back at newcomers that bring up the laundry list over and over. At this point, few of us have the energy to dredge this stuff back up. It's not that we can't refute it, we just don't see the point when we'll inevitably get another skeptic in a few days/weeks.

 

[axel_]

Sorry is this MCL or something? I'm confused how it relates back to Geno/The List™.

Yeah, it was from the Mii List leaker. Sorry, I didn't say that initially.
The SNK parts add credibility to the Mii List leak, cuz he was essentially right three in a row (first with no Geno costume, second with Goemon and Team Rocket costumes, and the third time with the SNK characters).

 

[Polarthief]

Edit: Gotcha. You edited above, so this post is irrelevant now. Good to know! I'll slap it on there and shoot you some extra credit. (first credit actually; could have sworn I put you on there somewhere before, huh)

 

[axel_]

Sorry I'm big dumb today: are you saying your V entire post V was about MCL?



You said "the same guy", but I had no idea who you were talking about.

Yeah. Again, Fatmanonice would probably have more information about it.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

It's been implied that the Mario collection is the 3D Marios so probably not.

your other implication from earlier broke my heart: “3rd DKCR platformer”

Am I the only one that wants to see another 3D DK game?! DK64, while bloated, was rad!

 

[axel_]

It's been implied that the Mario collection is the 3D Marios so probably not.

Thanks Fatman you just broke me and Lord Woomy dreams
(Jokes aside, it's understandable why they're not adding it since it's a 3D collection though )View attachment 272254

But guys, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars IS a 3D game, because you can move on all three planes of space!

 

[Polarthief]

axel_ Threw you some credit bb, thanks for the addition!
I also went and threw a disclaimer up before the list because man am I sick and tired of having to defend a list of coincidences that all of us know are coincidences, ree. If anyone wants to argue for the sake of Devil's Advocate and/or is willing to civilly discuss why something on that list shouldn't be there, I'd be more than happy to do that. But please don't @ me for the sake of trying to debunk every point of a list filled with leaks (unconfirmed) and circumstantial evidence on there because it's such a moot thing to argue against. No **** nothing "100% guarantees Geno is coming" because LITERALLY NOTHING WILL 100% POINT TO GENO. Nintendo could drop SMRPG right now and say "Geno's probably coming to Smash lol" and that wouldn't even be a 100% guarantee.

TL;DR: Whether Unikorn is a hater or not, I really don't care, I'm just tired of having to make huge posts like that defending a list of coincidences.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

axel_ Threw you some credit bb, thanks for the addition!
I also went and threw a disclaimer up before the list because man am I sick and tired of having to defend a list of coincidences that all of us know are coincidences, ree. If anyone wants to argue for the sake of Devil's Advocate and/or is willing to civilly discuss why something on that list shouldn't be there, I'd be more than happy to do that. But please don't @ me for the sake of trying to debunk every point of a list filled with leaks (unconfirmed) and circumstantial evidence on there because it's such a moot thing to argue against. No **** nothing "100% guarantees Geno is coming" because LITERALLY NOTHING WILL 100% POINT TO GENO. Nintendo could drop SMRPG right now and say "Geno's probably coming to Smash lol" and that wouldn't even be a 100% guarantee.

TL;DR: Whether Unikorn is a hater or not, I really don't care, I'm just tired of having to make huge posts like that defending a list of coincidences.

dont worry, Geno’s in.

 

[Polarthief]

This. I'm surprised we haven't already compiled a "standard doubts and rebuttals" list to just throw back at newcomers that bring up the laundry list over and over. At this point, few of us have the energy to dredge this stuff back up. It's not that we can't refute it, we just don't see the point when we'll inevitably get another skeptic in a few days/weeks.

Because I'm tired and going through a move, and I would if I wasn't those things. I'd gladly link to it on both The List™ and my signature if someone else wants to go ahead though... but at this point, we're so close to June anyway that it seems like a waste of time TBH.

dont worry, Geno’s in.

Tybb, I genuinely do believe he is too and am totally fine taking the L if this has all been just some grand delusions of some dumb 29 year old boomer.

 

[MattX20]

Proof of Geno's inclusion can only come from the presentation/"direct" or a trailer upload afterwards

 

[Franco Geno]

But guys, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars IS a 3D game, because you can move on all three planes of space!
View attachment 272258

You my man deserve some choccy milk, that was straight up genius

 

[Sigran101]

I usually don't really hang out here and, to be honest, I'm pretty neutral on Geno. Would be cool if he was in, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if he wasn't, but I saw a huge list of "chances" and I was curious to see if the stars really aligned for Geno (pun intended )

Spoiler

The very same leaker who had that information also said Crash would be the last character of the first Fighters Pass.

I'd say this leak should be taken with a grain of salt until Crash gets revealed as a Fighter Pass 2 character, because it's possible whoever got that leak got the timing wrong, which wouldn't be the first time for Ultimate's DLC run.


It could also just be for a Mii costume that comes bundled with two songs. Or just Nintendo being dumb because them taking out songs from games published by them for no apparent reason is far from new.

Granted, could also be for a playable Geno, but it's not the only possibility.


I'm not even going to read that part because take a moment to think about this.

You think that Nintendo taking down SPRPG songs is a hint, right?

Wouldn't this video, following the same train of logic, also be taken down? Either by Nintendo, Bethesda or even the very stingy Square?

And yet, it's not. That video's been around for half a year, has gotten a lot of traction in that time and has yet to be taken down by any of the not one but THREE companies involved. And somehow, that is also a hint despite contradicting with your logic of the songs that were taken down for copyrights?

I'm just curious on what was your train of thought on that one because the fact that it's been watchable for so long makes it very hard to think it's real.


Or he could just be a costume later. If he's one of those who come with a song, we have yet to see one of those come with a character they fit with.

And that matters a lot because Cuphead was funded by Microsoft, yet his costume did not come along with the Microsoft character.

Geno's situation with Hero isn't the smae as Cuphead and Banjo, but it's still not too far off, as the only reason these two share a company is because Squaresoft, who owns Geno and Final Fantasy, and Enix, who owns Dragon Quest, merged in 2003. If they hadn't done that, this argument wouldn't even exist.


The reason was probably that Square and/or Nintendo said no.

And the reason he didn't make it yet is probably because Nintendo didn't suggest him, because they're the ones giving the suggestions for Ultimate's DLC run, not Sakurai.


Just because they're aware of something doesn't guarantee that we'll get what we want.

Just look at all the years we've spent not getting Mother 3 outside of the Japan and asking for it. Nintendo made jokes about it since 2014 to show that they knew we wanted it, but did we get it? Nope.

Of course, the opposite also happened, notably with K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo and others, so... I'd say it's a 50/50.


This doesn't necessarily mean anything, honestly. Nintendo just really hates that we mod their stuff.

Heck, there's even been a case of someone having some of his videos copyright claimed by Nintendo even though there's nothing illegal about showing modded content.

That's how much they hate mods. So the Legacy team quitting could just be another Project M situation where they're deciding to quit because their thing is getting too much traction and could run a risk of having Nintendo sue them.

And it's not a C&D, by the way. They just stopped making it, or at least, that's all we know. Making stuff up isn't exactly what I'd call an argument.


This doesn't guarantee Geno, honestly.

It could happen, but it's probably just about, y'know, Mario.


That's just ridiculous and I'm baffled as to why people think we're going to get multiple characters as alts.

And for those who are about to say "bUt HeRo GoT iT", I'll just ask you one thing.

How would it feel to have Rock as a Terry alt? Or for Ryu to have had Ken, Akuma and Dan as alts back in Smash 4?

Would you say the alts are properly represented or would you think these characters were added without caring about how well the moveset would suit them? That the moveset they have is not the moveset they deserve to have?

Hero works because DQ protags are complete blank slates. And while there are certainly creative liberties with the spell list (doesn't help each Hero has a different spell list... or none at all for Erdrick, iirc), none of the spells are things you cannot do in DQ games because if the main hero doesn't have that spell, there's a party member who can.

So Hero's moveset is more about representing Dragon Quest as a whole and spice up the RNG with things like Thwack to make the character more unique. On the other hand, no two ARMS character play identically, have similar personalities or even similar body types (aside from Spring Man and Springtron for that third one), although the last one is something that can admiteddly be played around with without being too weird.

And if someone is like "BuT aRmS iS jUsT GeNeRiC pUnCh PuNCH", I'm just going to say that Sakurai has picked a character with zero moveset potential and managed to make him one of the most beloved characters in all of Smash; Captain Falcon. So he can absolutely make a moveset about an ARMS fighter that shows a lot of the chosen fighter's personality.


This one is just completely and utterly irrelevant to the current day.

Seven Squares was Square Enix's way to give leakbait to people by throwing in a couple of fake names into the mix, covering up the actual one we'd get for the first Fighters Pass. With us getting Erdrick and Luminary, the other five were nothing more than bait. And you're somehow still biting it to this day.

Heck, Seven Squares is from December 2018, which is very likely long before any of the second Pass was ever fully settled on. It does not apply to this Pass.


Maybe there's just demand for those amiibos and that's why there's restocks.

Heck, the fact that there are multiple Zelda characters and Ryu, which is likely more characters than Mario, Luigi and both Clouds combined, should show that people are just having some heavy tunnel vision when it comes to this restocking.

All it means is that there's demand for these amiibos. Nothing else.

None of the stuff I've said should be taken as me being a detractor who's trying to crush your hopes.

Anything I said that could be seen as negative is NOT countering Geno in Smash, but merely the arguments themselves, and should NOT be seen as me being anti-Geno.

I just felt like doing this because the current pandemic gives me too much free time lately, so I got bored and wanted to see how good the Geno arguments were since he's such a highly requested character among Smash fans.

See this is the kind of discussion that's good for a thread. Detractors come in, **** on Geno and then claim "it's just discussion". Surely everyone can see the difference between those detractors posts and this actually good discussion right here. It's like night and day.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

Didn’t see this discussed yet, but Leaky Pandy on Twitter is saying there will be a Pikmin announcement this week.

(If this ends up being true...)CALLED IT

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Didn’t see this discussed yet, but Leaky Pandy on Twitter is saying there will be a Pikmin announcement this week.

(If this ends up being true...)CALLED IT

Pikmin 3 is a great game, but it would be unfortunate if it ends up being the only Pikmin game to come to Switch, since Nintendo is more than capable of remastering the first two and bundling them as a trilogy(similar to Metroid).
Still, if the rumors of PK3 Deluxe are true, then they HAVE to at least reconfirm the existence of 4. They know how long people have been waiting, so to just announce 3 and then move on without saying anything else would be a big kick in the balls.

 

[bomamba]

You know what? I think it's for this very reason that they didn't unveil who the ARMS rep is going to be in the first place. Sakurai is probably well aware of what will happen when spirits/AT are proven NOT to deconfirm. That's why the timing is beyond perfect for Geno. Could you just imagine? If we get Springman, RibbonGirl or Min Min, everyone will be like, "OOOOOH ****, SPIRITS DON'T DECONFIRM! THAT MEANS THAT...."

(Geno Trailer starts)

"No ****ing way..."

(Geno's silhouette flashes past the screen)

"OH MY GOSH! IT'S! IT'S!!!!......"

(Splash screen)

"GENOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Geez, I'm getting hyped just thinking about it.

the perfect scenario

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Didn’t see this discussed yet, but Leaky Pandy on Twitter is saying there will be a Pikmin announcement this week.

(If this ends up being true...)CALLED IT

Yeah about that.

Does anyone really take Leaky Pandy seriously? I can't remember the last time that user ever got something right.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Before replying to anything, I won't argue against stuff that's just stars aligning (yes, made the same pun again, deal with it )

Polar's recognizing that these are potentially coincidences, so that's fair. No need to debate for those.

Spoiler

We've had tons of modders try to replicate it and since the leak came about, not a single modder has been able to replicate it as cleanly.

Calling the footage "clean" is pretty generous. It was recorded with a phone and it's borderline "potato quality"... unless you meant the quality of the models, in which case that's a fair point.

But here's the thing, you're expecting this to be proven false by having someone somehow replicate it accurately enough without us being able to get a good enough look to do so. Pretty sure it's hard to replicate anything that people can't see properly.

Of course modders would make mistakes when the thing they have to replicate isn't fully shown (aka being able to see the thing from up close at enough angles) and recorded with a phone, which can mess up with things like color saturation regardless of recording quality.

To expect a clean enough replica under these conditions from modders are pretty high expectations.

Of course, you're free to deny this argument if you want. I just want to point out that modding isn't really an easy thing to do.

Why would they take it down and bring more attention to it? They did it with the songs because they had to maybe? Idk.

Because this is literally what Nintendo always does?

Leaking footage is essentially copyright infringment, and Nintendo really cares about their contracts. Byleth's male VA was completely changed primarly because Chris Niosi broke his NDA, so they're definitely not the kind to take something like a big leak kindly.

Pretty much any legit Nintendo leak that gets shared on YouTube and other video services get taken out because it's, y'know, not legal to do so?

Who?/Perfectly fine but I haven't played SF so I wouldn't know/Who?

I'll just give the main gist of it.

Sakurai went out of his way with Lucina's inclusion in Smash 4 to explain that even the slightest of differences is worth making someone go from a mere alternate skin to a full-blown character slot.

The idea I've brought up is similar; characters with very similar moveset, but have different properties or mechanics here and there to make them functionally different characters that play very differently.

Pretty much like the characters in ARMS, only those ones are less apparent because every character has the same moveset, so the differences are in mobility, jump height and unique abilities.

Idk man, why does Simon have a slide and uppercut? Yeah he and Richter "echo" each other, but they still have the same moves so they may as well be alts of each other.

I'm not part of the dev team, so answering that question is pretty much impossible.

But if I had to make a speculated guess, it's likely so that he gets moves other than whip and whip and, of course, whip, in order for his moveset to feel less basic and generic.

Richter just happens to have a lot potential abilities that can help fill the gaps, so some of his abilities were implimented.

It also helps that the overall core gameplay across all Belmonts is the same; use whip, use items, rinse and repeat. They play similarly in their games, so it doesn't feel too strange.

Simon has moves that he *never had before*, which I would argue is an unfaithful recreation of his moveset in the past.

The only things missing from a purely NES Castlevania moveset are the dagger, which is basically unneeded because of the Cross, and a crouching version of the forward tilt, which would look exactly the same, except he's crouching.

The moveset is very faithful to the good ol' NES games. Problem is that there really aren't a lot of moves Simon does beyond using his whip and various items, a problem the Richter moves really help with.

...which I realize you could use to say Min Min's kicks could be one of the moves. There you go, a free counter.

So, yes, I fully do think the ARMS rep could have multiple characters and still meld them into a Simon/Richter situation. Imagine Spring Man + Ribbon Girl who has an extra jump and a quicker fall (representing Ribbon Girl) and a boost when at low Stamina/high % (representing Spring Man). As for the rest of their moves, actually yes, they are the same "generic punch punch" and grabs. Even all the arms they can acquire, despite starting with different ones, can be obtained by every other character. Sorry, but when the characters are done this masterfully as Sakurai has done, your argument here is invalid.

Spring Man with three or more jumps feels so wrong because he's supposed to be a boxer, not have some kind of aerial prowess.

Ribbon Girl with the high percent boost feels so wrong because she's supposed to be mixing you up with her multiple jumps and fast falls.

This isn't who either of these characters are. And it doesn't feel like it's a good way to properly fill gaps in an ARMS moveset.

Sakurai does characters masterfully, as you said, because he knows which boundaries to cross and which ones not to cross for something to feel faithful. And as someone who played a lot of ARMS, I can definitely say that Spring Man with an extra jump feels very off. Two is fine because everyone gets at least two in Smash, but more than that just feels like I'm not playing Spring Man anymore.

The ARMS is a fair point. I personally think the devs would stick to the default three a character comes with, but it's a fair point.

Alright, here's a better question that you'll probably get.

What if Geno was added, but half his moveset is Mallow's moves, so Mallow happens to be an alt. Would that feel right? Would it feel right to see Geno do marshmallow stuff, would it feel right for Mallow to have Geno Whirl?

"Happened long ago, it's not relevant anymore", oh my god how many times have we heard this regarding the copyright takedowns and CacoMallow?

Except Seven Squares isn't just a matter of time.

It was specifically for the Square character that Vergeben and other leakers were informed about back in 2018.

So to say Seven Squares is an argument in favor of Geno would be implying that he was decided to be added in the game, at the absolute latest, on the same month Ultimate released.

And I very much doubt that Geno as a Fighters Pass 2 character or any Pass 2 character, for that matter, was decided that soon.

It's not irrelevant because of how long ago it is. It's irrelevant because it was for a completely different thing that's unrelated to the second Pass.