Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RageCage271]

Yes! I loved XCX. Elma would have been a great addition. Also, hi. I have been quite absent lately.

 

[Polarthief]

We really didn't need a Pokemon rep in base just for the sake of having a Pokemon rep.

Agreed, though part of me does kinda hope we get Toxtricity because it really is an awesome design and character, and I'd want it for sure if we *are* getting a Gen 8 rep.

 

[Fatmanonice]

3 things:
1- If I'm not mistaken, the characters you heard were Sol Badguy, Crash Bandicoot, Yuri Lowell, Geno, Waluigi, Lloyd Irving, Dante, Sephiroth, Ryu Hayabusa and Geralt De Rivia (Even if he was born in a book) and some miis were: Something you don't want to tell us, Arle Nadja, Travis TouchDown, The Knight, Kris, Ms Pacman, Nightmare, Kosmos and Gooigi
2- Then you think that in the end: The Pass is Min Min, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante and Master Chief while Sol, Waluigi, Sora and Ryu Hayabusa are bonuses
3- How many songs would have the bonuses? when you brought Sora bonus you thought it would bring 2 songs and I think waluigi or able also doesn't bring anything, but sol y ryu?

1. Like I said, I've heard a lot of characters but the four I mentioned don't have related stuff attached to them. For example, Ryu is the only Tecmo thing that has ever come up. Other characters have also changed with time. For example, Nightmare was first heard in I believe August but by December he was being heard as a Mii costume. Geralt has basically been accepted as fake and probably just a false flag tied to the Witcher III for Switch rumors that eventually became true.

2. My current bonus predictions are Waluigi and Lolo but I don't totally disregard the others. One of my guys said to "not expect Ryu or Travis as playable" in December so I'm keeping that in mind.

3. Probably 2. In Smash 4, Corrin came with 2 songs so any bonus characters would probably be the same scenario.

 

[Vector Victor]

Agreed, though part of me does kinda hope we get Toxtricity because it really is an awesome design and character, and for sure if we *are* getting a Gen 8 rep.

And what would downplay him being seen as as a shill pick is that he currently has a large fanbase. Yea, he would advertise Gen Whatever They Are Up To, but he would also be more justified to people since he has popularity and requests.

Being a shill pick isn't automatically bad, but it really hurts if that is what defines 99% of the character choice. Pushing a character to force a fanbase has a big chance to back-fire, like how Square pushed Lightning to get Cloud/Sephiroth levels of exposure in 1/13th of the time they organically gained.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

doesn't even have to be from 2. do ppl forget X exists? Came out on the Wii U in 2015?

Fans of Gen 3 and Gen 5 Pokémon (and Shadows of Valentia, and FE8):

Welcome to bad timing gang, kid. How unlucky are ya?

I guess it depends on how Sakurai does the presentation for how many characters I'm expecting:

"Sakurai presents: Armando the Great." - Probably 2.

An honest to God Smash Direct- 3, possibly 4 if my theory about multiple bonus character is right.

People ask me a lot why I entertain the idea of bonus characters and, because I'm tired of the "I hate you and I'm going to drop a cinderblock on your cat" comments whenever I talk about it, I'll go into my reasoning:

- Back in January 2019, the game was datamined and 16 dummy slots/placeholders were found in the game's code. When Nintendo found out people found this, it was quickly yanked. In Smash 4, all 7 placeholders found in the game's code were eventually filled. Adding the Fighter's Pass and Season 2, we can account for 12 of the 16, making the argument that Nintendo at least seriously considered an additional 4 characters at some point. Will they happen? That's debatable but it's also notable that the game crashes if more slots are added beyond this. That said, 16 DLC characters has been the hard limit for almost a year and a half now.

-As you all know, I've brought up a number of characters in the past year that have come up in insider circles. A good number have also had Mii costumes attached to their companies come while there's notably four that haven't. With these four, the question is why they've even come up and if they're going to actually be anything in the end: Waluigi, Ryu Hayabusa, Sol Badguy, and Sora. It's very widely agreed that it's extremely unlikely that any of these four would wind up as Mii costumes so it begs the question why they've stuck around.

-I've mentioned it a lot and have detailed the controversial history of Waluigi going back to late 2018. When I say he's been heard by everyone, pretty much my entire contact list has heard him at some point. The big mystery is why and why he was my original prediction for 6. I still think he's coming, even if he winds up being the only extra character. I feel like he's been heard for too long and by too many high profile people to be absolutely nothing in the end.

-Conversations of "bonus characters" have coincidentally come up around the time Season 2 was greenlit last E3 and shortly after the VGAs in December, when 11 was likely successfully negotiated. This is why I'm currently leaning on my theory that there will be an extra in the first half of Season 2 and then the second, especially based on where certain info came from. It may not happen but at the same time I'm not totally discarding it without more evidence that it can't happen.

I honestly think that FP2 originally started as making one or two bonus characters. I mean Sakurai says that was the original idea in Byleth's presentation. If i remember correctly there was a glitch that showed 2 extra slots in the DLC character roster in Smash Ultimate's website.

1. Like I said, I've heard a lot of characters but the four I mentioned don't have related stuff attached to them. For example, Ryu is the only Tecmo thing that has ever come up. Other characters have also changed with time. For example, Nightmare was first heard in I believe August but by December he was being heard as a Mii costume. Geralt has basically been accepted as fake and probably just a false flag tied to the Witcher III for Switch rumors that eventually became true.

2. My current bonus predictions are Waluigi and Lolo but I don't totally disregard the others. One of my guys said to "not expect Ryu or Travis as playable" in December so I'm keeping that in mind.

3. Probably 2. In Smash 4, Corrin came with 2 songs so any bonus characters would probably be the same scenario.

Lolo? as in the blue guy that pushes blocks and shows up in Kirby games? I know Sakurai likes deep cuts, but to sell that as DLC is just off putting (i know it sounds hypocritical, but at least Geno has a notable cult following in comparison)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I agree with one of my friends in that if 6 is simply Springman then there's some sort of catch. I also agree with his idea that if Springman really is the first AT promotion then I wouldn't be surprised if Waluigi showed up too because everyone and their grandma would call bull**** on Springman getting that honor. Obviously not everyone agrees on Waluigi but Springman is pretty far down the list of AT promotions people wanted to see first and even Nintendo's aware of this.

 

[Polarthief]

And what would downplay him being seen as as a shill pick is that he currently has a large fanbase. Yea, he would advertise Gen Whatever They Are Up To, but he would also be more justified to people since he has popularity and requests.

Being a shill pick isn't automatically bad, but it really hurts if that is what defines 99% of the character choice.

Exactly. I've always differentiated between Ad and Shill picks as being different. Throwing a random ARMS rep at us that no one cares about or an "ARMS 2" like was speculated early on would 100% be a shill pick. Throwing Min-Min/a Hero-style character would be an ad pick, sure, but they still put thought into the character choice because it's what the fans wanted. It's exactly why I see Urshifu, a new DLC character that no one gives a crap about, would be an absolute shill, and Toxtricity (or Obstagoon, Sir-Fetch'd, Dragapult, etc top favorites of Gen 8) would be an ad pick.

The only difference is when a franchise is already over-represented and the fans have been saying that. Adding any FE character is practically shill at this point because it's so bloated and over-repped. Hell, people who were even asking for a 3H rep were mostly speculating/asking for Edelgard, since she's not only important to the overarching story, but also isn't Silent, Blank-Slate, Boring AF, Mc****Boy/Girl. Despite being a fan of 3H myself, I still do believe that Byleth is one of the most boring and bland characters in existence, especially considering how long the game is and how barely involved Byleth is overall besides just being who you control (hell, I think it would have been more enjoyable if you controlled the house leader instead). I kept thinking of a few theories and twists that were gonna happen, but none of them came true. Byleth was just intended to be a bland nobody-turned-hero from start to end; so bland that I honestly don't even remember bits and pieces.

Spoiler: Big 3H Spoilers

I don't even remember how/why they got the lighter green hair for example. The whole thing was just that unmemorable. What was memorable was Edelgard as the first big bad. I don't know how I wasn't spoiled on that and it genuinely was an awesome twist. The jump to the future was also pretty neat as it's another one of those "Whoops, you lost. Time to turn it around" plots. The game and plot were great, Byleth was just a terrible character.

Anyway, now I'm just rambling about how much I hate Byleth as a character, so I'll just stop here. Here's to hoping the ARMS rep isn't a complete shill like Byleth was.

Obviously not everyone agrees on Waluigi but Springman is pretty far down the list of AT promotions people wanted to see first and even Nintendo's aware of this.

Nintendo's also aware of how much people are sick of seeing FE characters and they still added another one in FP1. Even the creator of the game shares the fan's view, and they still did it anyway. Nintendo does stupid things because they're Nintendo and they don't care, so this is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Rangez]

Honestly, they kinda owe the Xenoblade fanbase a character at this point. You can't tell them 'Sorry, your game came out too late to get a character' and then turn around and go 'We naturally added an FE character because they had 7 lines of their concept art made just 20 minutes ago.'

Yeah, it's not like Sakurai played an early build of Three Houses to get some ideas for how Byleth would play, and Rex most likely wasn't conceptualized around the time Ultimate's base roster was officially finalized...

Just saying...

 

[CannonStreak]

Was just listening to a banger song and thought, "dang, now THIS should be the song to go with Best Guy Ever's video when Geno's revealed".

Of course! The words, Beat It, in particular, should apply to those who thought Geno would not get into Smash. (not trying to diss the Geno haters, by the way).

Or it could apply to them in the way that if they want to throw a fit if Geno is in, they should instead walk away.

 

[Polarthief]

Yeah, it's not like Sakurai played an early build of Three Houses to get some ideas for how Byleth would play, and Rex most likely wasn't conceptualized around the time Ultimate's base roster was officially finalized...

Just saying...

Yet XC2 was released in December 2017, so to say there wasn't enough time to put Rex in FP1 is a touch ridiculous, unless they had all of FP1's characters picked and finalized before that.

 

[a random user]

Lolo? as in the blue guy that pushes blocks and shows up in Kirby games? I know Sakurai likes deep cuts, but to sell that as DLC is just off putting (i know it sounds hypocritical, but at least Geno has a notable cult following in comparison)

Fans of Gen 3 and Gen 5 Pokémon (and Shadows of Valentia, and FE8):

Welcome to bad timing gang, kid. How unlucky are ya?


I honestly think that FP2 originally started as making one or two bonus characters. I mean Sakurai says that was the original idea in Byleth's presentation. If i remember correctly there was a glitch that showed 2 extra slots in the DLC character roster in Smash Ultimate's website.


Lolo? as in the blue guy that pushes blocks and shows up in Kirby games? I know Sakurai likes deep cuts, but to sell that as DLC is just off putting (i know it sounds hypocritical, but at least Geno has a notable cult following in comparison)

lolo in kirby is actualy an easter egg, he is from a set of 3 puzzle games called "adventure of lolo"

Spoiler

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...lolo&simid=608015962688195009&selectedIndex=0

 

[Polarthief]

Lolo? as in the blue guy that pushes blocks and shows up in Kirby games? I know Sakurai likes deep cuts, but to sell that as DLC is just off putting (i know it sounds hypocritical, but at least Geno has a notable cult following in comparison)

lolo in kirby is actualy an easter egg, he is from a set of 3 puzzle games called "adventure of lolo"

Not that it really matters, but they're also named differently. "Lolo and Lala" are from Adventures of Lolo, while "Lololo and Lalala" are their easter egg variants that live on in the Kirby universe.

PS: I also say this as someone who has not played AoL, but has played plenty of the oldest Kirby games.

 

[YsDisciple]

Nintendo has those games hot and ready, stored away in capsules a-la Dr. Wily at the beginning of Mega Man 7.

EDIT: by games I mean "Super Mario All-Star 2", "Pikmin 3 Deluxe", Metroid Prime Trilogy, etc.

 

[GillyGrime]

Literally what stage, spirits and additional Mario music would Waluigi realistically bring though? I think people are really overestimating his chances. At least Isaac would bring Golden Sun properly into Smash (with only 2 tracks and no stage). Likewise with Arms. Waluigi as a challenger pack (not just standalone) seems mad unlikely imo.

 

[Geno Boost]

is there anything new regarding Geno?

 

[Polarthief]

Literally what stage, spirits and additional Mario music would Waluigi realistically bring though? I think people are really overestimating his chances. At least Isaac would bring Golden Sun properly into Smash (with only 2 tracks and no stage). Likewise with Arms. Waluigi as a challenger pack (not just standalone) seems mad unlikely imo.

He could be a bonus then, and that would make a lot more sense when you think about it. Otherwise, Waluigi Island from Mario Party 3 is about all I can think of, just because of all the wacky shenanigans that goes on there.

Song-wise, Waluigi Island (remixed), Waluigi Pinball, and an assortment of songs from various Mario spin-off titles. Also wasn't he the primary antagonist in DDR: Mario Mix? I'm sure there's plenty of songs you could take from that, because if you don't have bangers in a DDR game, you shouldn't be making a DDR game (note: I haven't seen or heard of that game in forever, so I really don't know the tracks from it).

is there anything new regarding Geno?

The newest thing was what I refer to as the "Polish Amiibo Rerelease Leak" (name could definitely use a tweak). If you're aware of that though then nothing else has come up.

If you're not up to date on that, I suggest checking out The List™ as you may have missed more.

 

[GillyGrime]

If we were guaranteed a standalone bonus character then yeah, I'd say Waluigi is probably the most likely candidate

 

[Polarthief]

If we were guaranteed a standalone bonus character then yeah, I'd say Waluigi is probably the most likely candidate

No guarantees but supposedly there's been speculation among insiders that there might be? Idk, Fatman has said something of the sort tons of times but I don't want to speak for him because I don't remember the specifics (and I'm too lazy to go digging through hundreds of posts).

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If there's anything I can say about Origami King it has made me a lot more motivated to redo a bunch of my old Paper Mario partners. I think I did good.

Spoiler

From left to right we have:

Moon, an aspiring astronaut Bonneter who was never able to go on her own expedition to explore space, so she goes with Mario on his journey to prove herself. She's the Tattle partner like Goombario or Goombella, though she can be upgraded to have an attack called Meteor Shower that deals a lot of damage to all enemies and cuts defense, so she's more useful than either. She also uses Tattle on a phone because this is a 2020 girl.

The King and The Duke, a Koopa Troopa and Buzzy Beetle respectively. They pretend to be royalty of the area Mario visits in Chapter 1, but it turns out they're just thieves in disguise using him to steal treasure from the real royal family. The two frame Mario and he's imprisoned, but they feel guilty about it since he was the first one to show them genuine kindness. So they break in and free Mario, and they join his party from then on. They function exactly like Koops where Mario can shoot the shell and hold it in place. The Buzzy spins on top of the Koopa, this allows Mario to shoot a second shell in another direction while holding the first in place.

Rocko, a Frogog. He's the strongest member of a mob family of Frogogs, and has a bunch of scars from battles over the years. He's tough, but more of the silent type. Mario is caught by the mob, but their master sees that he could be of use with dealing with another mob family, who seems to be forming a weapon to take them down. Rocko is assigned to go with Mario, he initially hates Mario and his allies, but follows orders anyway, and eventually grows to respect him. His field ability is not yet decided, though he's more a combat-focused partner. His attacks can deal high damage but most only hit single targets.

And finally Ms. Yime, an elderly Yoshi who teaches finance at a university. When students are going missing and strange events start happening on campus, Yime teams up with Mario to try and find out what's going on. Yime is essentially the same as Mini Yoshi where Mario can ride her and Flutter Jump. She also has a tongue ability, which can grab objects from afar and first strike enemies.

Will more than likely add more to this

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Literally what stage, spirits and additional Mario music would Waluigi realistically bring though? I think people are really overestimating his chances. At least Isaac would bring Golden Sun properly into Smash (with only 2 tracks and no stage). Likewise with Arms. Waluigi as a challenger pack (not just standalone) seems mad unlikely imo.

Seeing how Walugi is seen as "Mr Spin Off" according to many, he could come with say, Waluigi Pinball as his stage (and could get a new remix alongside it, i mean a lot of remixes in Ultimate were already remixed in past games like Fourside) and for music? It's Mario, the possibilites are endless when it comes to it (Mario Party is underrepresented music wise)

Of course this is just an idea. I mean when Pac-Man was speculated to be in Smash 4 most people speculated him to represent the Pac-Man series instead of him beign "Mr Namco Arcade game incarnate", which is what he became in the Smash series.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I still can't budge the idea that Paper Mario is fighter #7, I demand to know who put the idea in my head! I want Geno, darn it! Though I feel Fawful would an equally viable RPG rep for Mario.


On the topic of Mario RPG reps, I feel like if we had Paper Mario get announced after the Arms rep, people would call it a "shill pick" despite it really being stupid coincidence.

Paper Mario has been requested since before Smash 4 where his popularity picked up but unlike Roy, Greninja, Corrin, and Byleth, he's had time to really grow before being added to Smash. He'd probably be like Greninja where he was a "shill" but no one complains about him because he just so happened to be the fan favorite starter for Gen 6.

I say this because this moveset by @boxguy on Twitter looks sick!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

On the topic of Mario RPG reps, I feel like if we had Paper Mario get announced after the Arms rep, people would call it a "shill pick" despite it really being stupid coincidence.

Paper Mario has been requested since before Smash 4 where his popularity picked up but unlike Roy, Greninja, Corrin, and Byleth, he's had time to really grow before being added to Smash. He'd probably be like Greninja where he was a "shill" but no one complains about him because he just so happened to be the fan favorite starter for Gen 6.

I say this because this moveset by @boxguy on Twitter looks sick!

Should add this into the Paper Mario support thread.

That said I'd love for this to be his moveset if he gets in.

 

[MattX20]

Once June arrives, there's no turning back. The speculation for Geno is possibly in the endgame

 

[CannonStreak]

Once June arrives, there's no turning back. The speculation for Geno is possibly in the endgame

What will any one of us do if he is NOT in by next month?

 

[QQS]

Can you imagine?

-Geno joins the party as #77
-Super Mario RPG to the NSO
-Origami Geno in the new Paper Mario

The first two are happening 100% for me. The last, I don’t know. But just finish this and give us Geno playable in Smash!

 

[StarLight42]

What will any one of us do if he is NOT in by next month?

while it would suck, there's no reason to lose all hope unless we see a mii costume

because there is absolutely no way that they wouldn't at least bring back the mii costume. We WILL get closure for geno, whether it's what we want or if it's not what we want. They aren't going to simply ignore him especially when he was given a spirit in the base game and was one of the most popular Mii costumes in smash 4

Some people on this board are getting too addicted to the idea of Geno as FP7. It makes total sense, but it might not happen.

 

[Paraspikey]

What will any one of us do if he is NOT in by next month?

Wait.
It's what I'm expecting to do.

 

[Deleted member]

As long as Sakurai is picking the characters I don't have faith in Geno's chances. The man has had plenty of chances to add him by now.

Also gets tiring hearing people elsewhere saying "He's just from one game he doesn't deserve to be in!".

Like bruh. Bayonetta, Cloud, Piranha Plant, and Joker are in. I think Geno is fine lol.

 

[CannonStreak]

Wait.
It's what I'm expecting to do.

Huh? Forgive me, but what do you mean?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As long as Sakurai is picking the characters I don't have faith in Geno's chances. The man has had plenty of chances to add him by now.

Nintendo is picking all the Fighter's Pass characters anyway.

That said, Sakurai has at least acknowledged he's "wanted him in since Brawl", and it has yet to happen. That just means things didn't work out for making him playable that we have no clue why. Wanting doesn't mean it'll happen. All 3rd party characters still require Nintendo to help negotiate, as it's on their system and all. And they own the franchise, not Sakurai. There's many things that could've happened. We don't even know if Sakurai tried to get Geno during Brawl or only considered him but didn't see it as possible at the time. Nintendo might've said no to the idea as well. Or SE said no when asked.

We really lack a lot of information. So he may not have had "plenty of chances" either. Licensing isn't that simple. As Sakurai doesn't own anything but a few OC's(and maybe not even that, as SSB is owned by Nintendo, so he might not even own Master Hand either) at best, he doesn't have a lot of massive control without straight-out permission to add characters. Yes, he's given a lot of leeway thanks to being a high profile director, but even then he's still shorted on options. Look at Cloud's costumes. Even Sonic has better ones by far. Bayonetta is pretty bad too. It's like telling Silver and Gray apart for how bad it can get. Things aren't that simple. But with Nintendo at the helm, it's just a matter of them wanting to bring Geno in, and the rest is on SE saying yes(which to be honest, sounds a lot more plausible nowadays. Could be as easy as making sure a new re-release of SMRPG is done, which gives SE more money in the end than just Geno DLC. Could be other products that Nintendo publishes for them, like exclusive games, etc.)

 

[QQS]

As all of you know I’m rooting for Geno to be #77. If that doesn’t happen, it’s not the end for me. Even if someone else takes #77 spot (which it doesn’t matter cause it’s just a number) I would still have my faith intact that Geno is happening between #78 and #81 (or even more DLC after #81).

What I mean is that for me the evidence (all the Lists we know) of Geno is so strong/
obvious and he would be still alive even if he isn’t #77. I’m not giving up on Geno until I see:

-a returning costume of Sm4sh
-a premium new costume
-another Square Enix instead of him

Finally, I DO believe he is going to be #77 in a double reveal after ARMS video. Then followed by Crash probably.

To sum up, for me Geno is 100% in, and it would be a fine coincidence if he is #77; but of course he can be another number.

The most important is that Geno’s chances to NOT be playable for me are: 0.0000001%
(I repeat the “for me). I know I’m too optimist but hey, it’s too much evidence. Just go back to his story, Fan demand, acknowledge by Sakurai and how almost every wish came true in Ultimate.

Last but not least. “This is the Smash that will make everyone happy”. “Fans will be pleased” and “not just recognizable; FUN to play”.

Geno is the perfect character in many terms (design, story between companies, moveset, music, belonging to Mario franchise, big fan demand, etc.).

He is in.

 

[CannonStreak]

As all of you know I’m rooting for Geno to be #77. If that doesn’t happen, it’s not the end for me. Even if someone else takes #77 spot (which it doesn’t matter cause it’s just a number) I would still have my faith intact that Geno is happening between #78 and #81 (or even more DLC after #81).

What I mean is that for me the evidence (all the Lists we know) of Geno is so strong/
obvious and he would be still alive even if he isn’t #77. I’m not giving up on Geno until I see:

-a returning costume of Sm4sh
-a premium new costume
-another Square Enix instead of him

Finally, I DO believe he is going to be #77 in a double reveal after ARMS video. Then followed by Crash probably.

To sum up, for me Geno is 100% in, and it would be a fine coincidence if he is #77; but of course he can be another number.

The most important is that Geno’s chances to NOT be playable for me are: 0.0000001%
(I repeat the “for me). I know I’m too optimist but hey, it’s too much evidence. Just go back to his story, Fan demand, acknowledge by Sakurai and how almost every wish came true in Ultimate.

Last but not least. “This is the Smash that will make everyone happy”. “Fans will be pleased” and “not just recognizable; FUN to play”.

Geno is the perfect character in many terms (design, story between companies, moveset, music, belonging to Mario franchise, big fan demand, etc.).

He is in.

Woah, hold up there! Even with the evidence, saying he is a lock and 100% in is still a stretch. I'd say more like 90% to be on the safe side, but it could still go either way. That said, it is best not to raise your expectations that high. You don't want to get disappointed, do you? This is not just to you, but to everyone else as well, by the way.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

As long as Sakurai is picking the characters I don't have faith in Geno's chances. The man has had plenty of chances to add him by now.

Also gets tiring hearing people elsewhere saying "He's just from one game he doesn't deserve to be in!".

Like bruh. Bayonetta, Cloud, Piranha Plant, and Joker are in. I think Geno is fine lol.

I mean regarding the whole "he would have been added by now" shtick, i say people have to remember Ridley. Before Ridley's reveal in E3, BARELY anyone was positive or even cautiosly hoping that he would be playable.

Back in Brawl, Ridley was said to be "impossible", and in Smash 3DS/Wii U Sakurai basically said "Ridley is too big". Look now in Ultimate. Sure the reasoning as to why Ridley got maybe different, but the me it sounds weird to say "i don't see this character as likely because if it was it would have been included by now" when there are characters who have gone to similar issues, i mean at least Geno wasn't mentoined by Sakurai in a negative light twice like Ridley.

Also i think it was Nintendo who was choosing the characters in Fighter Pass 2, but i don't remember a source saying that (and the likes of Terry and Joker in Fighter Pass 1 just scream "Sakurai's preference")

Also, all of those characters you mentioned have appeared in multiple installments in their series. The compilation of FF7, Joker has P5-specific spin offs, and Bayonetta literally has a sequel that was released before her reveal.

With that said while Geno has only appeared in one game and a cameo that was removed in the remake, his popularity and the fact that Sakurai mentioned him in a positive light (unlike Ridley) makes me believe this isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be (Shulk's franchise was only one game when he was chosen in 2012's roster planning, and no Xenogears and Xenosaga don't count, at least in legal terms)

 

[QQS]

Woah, hold up there! Even with the evidence, saying he is a lock and 100% in is still a stretch. I'd say more like 90% to be on the safe side, but it could still go either way. That said, it is best not to raise your expectations that high. You don't want to get disappointed, do you? This is not just to you, but to everyone else as well, by the way.

Well it’s okay, I get your point my friend. But don’t blame me for my faith, this is the moment for Geno to shine brighter and there is no option at this point that Nintendo, Sakurai and Square aren’t aware of this.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well it’s okay, I get your point my friend. But don’t blame me for my faith, this is the moment for Geno to shine brighter and there is no option at this point that Nintendo, Sakurai and Square aren’t aware of this.

That's right. I can't blame you. No offense, but if Geno does not get in, and you have your expectations too high...

You do have yourself to blame for that. Just saying.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean regarding the whole "he would have been added by now" shtick, i say people have to remember Ridley. Before Ridley's reveal in E3, BARELY anyone was positive or even cautiosly hoping that he would be playable.

Back in Brawl, Ridley was said to be "impossible", and in Smash 3DS/Wii U Sakurai basically said "Ridley is too big". Look now in Ultimate. Sure the reasoning as to why Ridley got maybe different, but the me it sounds weird to say "i don't see this character as likely because if it was it would have been included by now" when there are characters who have gone to similar issues, i mean at least Geno wasn't mentoined by Sakurai in a negative light twice like Ridley.

Also i think it was Nintendo who was choosing the characters in Fighter Pass 2, but i don't remember a source saying that (and the likes of Terry and Joker in Fighter Pass 1 just scream "Sakurai's preference")

Also, all of those characters you mentioned have appeared in multiple installments in their series. The compilation of FF7, Joker has P5-specific spin offs, and Bayonetta literally has a sequel that was released before her reveal.

With that said while Geno has only appeared in one game and a cameo that was removed in the remake, his popularity and the fact that Sakurai mentioned him in a positive light (unlike Ridley) makes me believe this isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be (Shulk's franchise was only one game when he was chosen in 2012's roster planning, and no Xenogears and Xenosaga don't count, at least in legal terms)

Nintendo gave him a list of characters, he still picks from the list and has a final say.

Piranha Plant was not from Nintendo's list. And being he's a huge Persona 5 fan and SNK fan, you can reasonably assume he picked those two. I mean he dedicated a entire video to explaining SNK's history, it was the fighting game he was the best at when he was younger. (KoF).

Dark Pit existed at all when he was fine as a alternate costume is another example whereas you look at Alph per se and he remains a costume. They even add Chrom in Ultimate while Alph still remains a costume. Sakurai is a huge fan of Fire Emblem, and that series isn't Zelda level and there's so many FE chars and barely any Zelda ones outside of Links, Zeldas, and a Ganondorf.

Not sure why it's hard to believe Sakurai the creator of the game has influence on who gets in and who doesn't.

Nintendo is picking all the Fighter's Pass characters anyway.

That said, Sakurai has at least acknowledged he's "wanted him in since Brawl", and it has yet to happen. That just means things didn't work out for making him playable that we have no clue why. Wanting doesn't mean it'll happen. All 3rd party characters still require Nintendo to help negotiate, as it's on their system and all. And they own the franchise, not Sakurai. There's many things that could've happened. We don't even know if Sakurai tried to get Geno during Brawl or only considered him but didn't see it as possible at the time. Nintendo might've said no to the idea as well. Or SE said no when asked.

We really lack a lot of information. So he may not have had "plenty of chances" either. Licensing isn't that simple. As Sakurai doesn't own anything but a few OC's(and maybe not even that, as SSB is owned by Nintendo, so he might not even own Master Hand either) at best, he doesn't have a lot of massive control without straight-out permission to add characters. Yes, he's given a lot of leeway thanks to being a high profile director, but even then he's still shorted on options. Look at Cloud's costumes. Even Sonic has better ones by far. Bayonetta is pretty bad too. It's like telling Silver and Gray apart for how bad it can get. Things aren't that simple. But with Nintendo at the helm, it's just a matter of them wanting to bring Geno in, and the rest is on SE saying yes(which to be honest, sounds a lot more plausible nowadays. Could be as easy as making sure a new re-release of SMRPG is done, which gives SE more money in the end than just Geno DLC. Could be other products that Nintendo publishes for them, like exclusive games, etc.)

Seeing as how Geno had a Mii outfit and has IP representation in Smash Ultimate and seeing how they have Cloud and Dragon Quest, I don't see any evidence to suggest there are issues between licenses.

Also there is a important distinction on the character bit. Nintendo gave him a list of characters, but Sakurai still picks the characters from the list. He has the final say.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Nintendo gave him a list of characters, he still picks from the list and has a final say.

Piranha Plant was not from Nintendo's list. And being he's a huge Persona 5 fan and SNK fan, you can reasonably assume he picked those two. I mean he dedicated a entire video to explaining SNK's history, it was the fighting game he was the best at when he was younger. (KoF).

Dark Pit existed at all when he was fine as a alternate costume is another example whereas you look at Alph per se and he remains a costume. They even add Chrom in Ultimate while Alph still remains a costume. Sakurai is a huge fan of Fire Emblem, and that series isn't Zelda level and there's so many FE chars and barely any Zelda ones outside of Links, Zeldas, and a Ganondorf.

Not sure why it's hard to believe Sakurai the creator of the game has influence on who gets in and who doesn't.


Seeing as how Geno had a Mii outfit and has IP representation in Smash Ultimate and seeing how they have Cloud and Dragon Quest, I don't see any evidence to suggest there are issues between licenses.

Also there is a important distinction on the character bit. Nintendo gave him a list of characters, but Sakurai still picks the characters from the list. He has the final say.

Actually, according to Sakurai, there’s a discussion between him and Nintendo. Nothing about a list was mentioned. In fact, ARMS was confirmed to be a production request; I think he said he had a different character in mind. Plus, he even stated Nintendo picks the fighters, while he decides if he can make them work, but I don’t think he’d deny out of bias; he said no character has been denied due to a lack of ideas, and surely Nintendo wouldn’t want to hear “no because I don’t like them.” While he certainly could’ve picked Joker and Terry himself if he lied for some reason, which I personally doubt, they still make sense as choices by Nintendo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nintendo gave him a list of characters, he still picks from the list and has a final say.

That's literally something made up from the fans and has never been once stated as real.

Piranha Plant was not from Nintendo's list. And being he's a huge Persona 5 fan and SNK fan, you can reasonably assume he picked those two. I mean he dedicated a entire video to explaining SNK's history, it was the fighting game he was the best at when he was younger. (KoF).

And Nintendo picked everybody but PP. PP is not part of the Fighter's Pass.

Dark Pit existed at all when he was fine as a alternate costume is another example whereas you look at Alph per se and he remains a costume. They even add Chrom in Ultimate while Alph still remains a costume. Sakurai is a huge fan of Fire Emblem, and that series isn't Zelda level and there's so many FE chars and barely any Zelda ones outside of Links, Zeldas, and a Ganondorf.

Sakurai, who directly said he felt FE was getting a bit big? He admitted that too. So not a good example.

Alph didn't just remain a costume. Pikmin & Alph did. Alph not being split off means he just doesn't see a reason to give him differences since the Captains are identical beyond personality. You're wrong also about why Dark Pit was done. He didn't just have a case where using Pit's Final Smash was awkward, there's the fact his team had new idea for his Arm weapon, which is the core thing; they had ideas of what to do. They didn't have any easy ideas for Alph. What matters is the assets too. All the Uprising assets existing, making it hyper easy to give Dark Pit and Pit any differences, since you could port them over very very fast. They only had to do half the work for the Wii U versions of the characters, which is basically a few recolors of the arms. They only have to remake the staff and reuse the programming from Light Arrow to make Dark Pit Staff, the Final Smash. Alph is an awful example no matter how you go about it. It sucks he didn't get his own slot yet, but there are actual reasons for it.

Not sure why it's hard to believe Sakurai the creator of the game has influence on who gets in and who doesn't.

It's not nearly as simple as that. We know for a fact he can't control who gets in in every case. He has been denied before. He even spoke not that long ago that he couldn't even get Snake for 4, which he spoke on some ballot stuff. So clearly influence is only "somewhat" there. But there's no reason to believe he had any real influence on the Fighter's Pass when what you're best talking about is coincidences. There is no list. There's nothing to suggest a list. The hard thing said was "Nintendo chose the characters, not me." That pretty much seals the deal that Sakurai didn't have straight influence. In fact, the only one where maybe he did was Hero, but not because of some list, but because Nintendo liked the idea when Sakurai tried to get the character back during base.

Seeing as how Geno had a Mii outfit and has IP representation in Smash Ultimate and seeing how they have Cloud and Dragon Quest, I don't see any evidence to suggest there are issues between licenses.

Night and day. Cloud has a tiny slew of content as is, because FF is owned by multiple IP holders. As is DQ. Never mind that Geno had the first timing to be added, get this, during Brawl. Which was when SE was not on good terms with Nintendo. It wasn't till the DS that things started to change for the better again, and later on too. So of course licensing was hard. Come Smash 3DS, and Sakurai simply wanted Cloud over Geno first, which is from a bigger franchise than an older game. Never mind trying to get anything FF or DQ by the time of Brawl was going to be even more difficult, as SE was still not on good terms with Nintendo. Meaning getting those before Geno, which is probably more what Sakurai would do anyway due to some massive game importance? Good luck with that. So no, it's not "would've added him by now" in any way. It's that there's complications and higher priorities. SE is not that easy to work with, especially not back then.

Also there is a important distinction on the character bit. Nintendo gave him a list of characters, but Sakurai still picks the characters from the list. He has the final say.

This is a rumor, not a fact. He's never suggested this to be the case, and it's fabricated based upon some silly idea Nintendo wouldn't choose certain characters. They have access to the ballot data too, you know. They also know their own gaming history and can pick characters to appeal to different regions.

 

[Fatmanonice]

All these news stories about Pikmin 3 being on standby is a very interesting development because it begs the question of how applicable this is to Smash. If Pikmin 3 Deluxe has been "done" for awhile and Nintendo's merely holding it off for the sake of timing, it possibly creates an argument of Nintendo working on things for Smash to simply get them done and then saving them for later. It's definitely yet another +1 for Cacomallow and characters being heard way before their actual release.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Also there is a important distinction on the character bit. Nintendo gave him a list of characters, but Sakurai still picks the characters from the list. He has the final say.

Even though Sakurai has "the final say", he can be persuaded. Shortly after Corrin was revealed, when it came as to why he was added, Sakurai said that "look man i wasn't sure if i should add this one, there are already too many of them Fire Emblemz" and then his team went like "no no man you should totally do this". Literally only went for it because his team pushed him to do so.

I personally felt that having too many Fire Emblem characters was a problem, but after talking it over with the development staff and discussing logistics, I felt certain that I could make them a fun character.

Or how about the time Kojima begged Sakurai to add Snake in Smash. or the time time where there an entire campain happened to add K.Rool in Smash 4, and continued into the Ballot (#KrocTheVote anyone?)

He may have the final say, but he sure as hell can be persuaded. and if he can be persuaded by his team or people on the internet that voted for a singing krocodile, and sure as hell can be persuaded by his higher ups at Nintendo. I mean Exececutive Meddling is a thing, and while im not an advocate for it at all, i wouldn't be surpised if it happened (assuming it hasn't happened already)

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen now.