Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[cosmicB]

It really is sad that detractors mostly just go for the irrelevancy angle, despite characters like Pit (who I actually do think no one cared about) and Banjo-Kazooie being in, despite ROB being in of all things (that thing was terrible).

Like, what more of a character do they want? More anime swordsmen? He's a freaking spirit who possesses a doll and shoots BULLETS (also stars and small cannonballs) FROM HIS ARMS, as well as robot-like rocket punches, magic (Blast, Flash), lasers (Beam, Blast), and can even TRANSFORM INTO A CANNON AND SHOOT SOME WEIRD-ASS SUN THING (Flash). I really don't understand. Is he too unique or something? Also Geno Whirl is basically Destructo Disc from DBZ.

Seriously, I'd kill to know what characters the detractors want instead, and man will I be royally pissed if it's just "well-known Shooty McShoot" or "well-known anime swordsman". (Edit: Not hating on Shooty McShoot or Anime Swordsman, see below post if you think I am)

I think the problem here is trying to assign a definitive view to something extremely subjective like Smash desires and just what the game means to any individual person. There are multiple levels to this that doesn't just start and end at fan demand; there's also character prevalence within their own property, how meaningful it is to Sakurai himself, etc. It's why I don't think it's fair to compare main characters like Pit (who Sakurai would go on to revive the property of himself years later) and BK, or even the central subject that is ROB for its respective hardware (as bad as said hardware is, but bad properties aren't new in Smash, IE Ice Climbers) to a character like Geno, who is not only a side character in his game, but arguably a secondary original one after Mallow. That's not to say the demand is out of place, but the choices go beyond just demand or the 3H rep would've been Dimitri/Edelgard rather than Byleth.

Personally speaking, my ideal lists have always stressed "new" as their most important point. Not only new worlds, but new companies as well. While I have little personal connection to Terry, he represents basically everything I want out of a DLC pack; not just a rep of his series, but of the entire company he hails from. The reason I feel this way is I think Smash has moved beyond being a celebration of Nintendo and into the realm of celebrating the entire industry itself. At this point, there are a ludicrous amount of gaming icons, and I feel its myopic to just look toward properties that are already represented when there's a massive ocean of amazing reps out there that even 100 spots wouldn't be enough to fill. While on a personal level I thought Byleth was cool, it did disappoint me when taking into account my greater mindset, as did the info about an ARMs rep. I'd probably feel the same about Dante because even though I think he'd be AMAZING and I'd most likely main him in an instant, Capcom's already pretty well represented. Same for Square, Sega, Namco, Konami, SNK, etc. I'd still be far more accepting of new worlds (as in no spirits, music, assist trophies, etc) in already represented companies than new characters in already represented world. That's why there's only one Nintendo property that I'd be 90%+ cool with, and that's Dragalia Lost as it has literally no other content in the game.

That's my logic at least. Doesn't mean I'd throw a fit if Geno got in, he'd be pretty cool. My mindset just goes well beyond him and if I had the choice, there'd be A LOT of popular characters I'd push down just by virtue of already having some representation in the game, whether it be a spirit, an assist trophy, a costume, a single note in an unknown song hidden in the files that no one has discovered yet, or anything else you can think of.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Wait... do you and the ten people that liked this post really not see a difference between Geno and Shantae or Crash? Again... I'm speaking merely from a body standpoint. Is this visual identity not evident? It truly seems delusional to not see the similarities in body type between the Mii (Gunner) and Geno.

I-I think you missed my point in its entirety. Just because Geno's "body type" fits being a premium Mii Costume doesn't suddenly mean they're gonna make him one instead of being a playable character, that's not evidence, that's just blind speculation. I could've easily just taken more then 5 seconds to think of 3 characters that fit the premium Mii Costume "body type" and it would've been the same. If "body type" is the only argument that you can muster for why Geno will be a premium costume, then you really need a better argument...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something worth pointing out is that Geno isn't a "side" character in SMRPG. He's one of the overarching main characters, and a key part of the story.

Among the five playable, the only ones who really doesn't matter is Toadstool, as she's just there for the ride. Mario is the core protagonist, saving the world. Geno is doing the same thing, but the story changes focus to him later on, so he's the secondary one. Mallow has his own side story, which is important too, but for different reasons than saving the world. Finally, Bowser basically is just trying to get his castle back, and decides to help Mario along the way, in his own egotistical fashion(that, and it's been proven he has a good heart time and time again).

Also, didn't Super Mario Kart come out before SMRPG, cementing Mario and Bowser as more rivals than Good VS Evil? If not, this is the first game where Bowser shows he has a good side to him too. But nonetheless, Geno practically is the co-protagonist of his game. SMRPG is a side game in the Super Mario series. But Geno is only a side character in that sense. He's absolutely a main character and a major story focus in his own game. He's only slightly different from BK in that he's the not core protagonist, when it comes to their role within their own games.

But he's also an OC for the series, where Mario/Bowser/Peach were already playable before Brawl, the first time Geno was even considered. So literally the only issue at best was other SE main characters, which for whatever reason, Geno couldn't happen(that's our list of details on what happened during Brawl even).

 

[RedMachine123]

Wait... do you and the ten people that liked this post really not see a difference between Geno and Shantae or Crash? Again... I'm speaking merely from a body standpoint. Is this visual identity not evident? It truly seems delusional to not see the similarities in body type between the Mii (Gunner) and Geno.

EDIT: Perhaps delusional is a bit triggering. How about intentionally turning the other cheek to ignore the similarities?

This is a Smash 4 Inkling Mii costume and just like the Smash 4 Geno Mii costume you only need to desing a head, add a song and you already have a "Premium" Mii costume pack. As you can see the inklings fit very well the Mii gunner proportions, so it's more likely to Inkling to be a premium Mii costume than a character, right?

No, just because "X" character can fit well a Mii Gunner/Brawler/Swordfighter proportions doesn't mean that this character automatically will become a premium Mii costume and not a character. And why would Nintendo bother themselves in redesigning the Smash 4 Geno Mii costume if they can just port It for the same price?

 

[MrJudd]

You know, Beyond the talk of Premium Mii Costumes and stuff like that, Isn't it possible for Geno to be a Bonus character. I Know Mr Fatman has been putting out the idea of Bonus Characters and he speculates characters like Waluigi, But i think Geno could just be a bonus character instead of a Full on Fighter Pass.

Honestly, if bonus characters are happening, it can be a mixture of these factors:

• We won't be seeing a new Smash game for a while and they want to fulfill as many fan requests as possible
• The deadline of December 2021 had this in mind
• They got the rights for a very requested character and nothing else
• They don't have enough resources to deliver everyone as a full pack (Ex: We can only make 6 full packs, but we have resources to add 4 standalone fighters alongside the pass)

Right now, the only 2 characters I can see being bonuses are Sora and Waluigi, but others could happen like that. I don't think Geno falls in that category because Square has been opening their hand more with Dragon Quest and Trials of Mana. Not only that, but Geno is a long time fan request. That's what bothers me about the Premium Mii Costume argument: Cuphead and Sans are characters with a decent fan-following in the recent years. They didn't exist before Smash 4. Not only has Geno has been requested for a long time, it's fanbase is actually bigger (one of biggest left, don't believe me? check the page number right now). So was the case with Ridley. So was the case with K. Rool. So was the case with Banjo. Every big fan request fighter got the full treatment and love that the fans wanted and people want the same for Geno. Simple as that.

Not only that, but all the content that comes with a character is also something important. In June 2018, back before the game's launch, I wanted a Persona character in Smash but I was divided between Yu and Joker because while I consider Joker to have the coolest design of the two, I didn't want them to leave out Persona 4's amazing soundtrack out of the mix. Fortunately, I got the best of both worlds. Super Mario RPG has an amazing soundtrack, some of the most unique characters that a Mario game had, interesting places like Nimbus Land, Star Hill, Moleville and more. The love isn't for just a character, it's for the entire game/franchise it comes from.

One character that explains my thoughts well is Professor Layton: Can you represent him very faithfully as a Mii Costume? Yes, I did him as a Swordfighter since Smash 4. This devalues or puts him in the back of the list of characters that can become playable? Of course not. People love the Professor Layton series and its characters. Another example: after 6 was revealed, one of the characters that started reappearing was Rex/Pyra: now isn't he a Premium Mii Costume? He even has Azurda sitting on his helmet! Does this devalue him as a playable fighter? No. There's more that can be done with him and Pyra as a tag team and even incorporating the feel of playing as him in XC2. Visual is not the only thing that matters. Cuphead and Sans don't play at all how they are in their games, as most of the Mii Costumes.

And that brings me to my last point, a defining factor of a true Smash moveset over movesets created by fans or present in fangames: They don't need to strictly follow the source material to create the fighter. The only exception to this rule would be fighting game characters like Ryu and Terry, because they we're created with that purpose in mind, and even then they created a new move for Terry's up air. That's what makes me excited about Geno, actually: seeing what Sakurai can do with a possessed doll, because we have none in Smash (obligatory "It doesn't matter if a character is popular or recognizable" quote here). If anything, this gives even more power to Geno over other big characters: none of them can even give the same thing.

This is why I'm positive about Geno, and, as time is passing, more and more evidences, as portrayed by The List(tm), are appearing in Geno's favor, just like Banjo. Can all of this fall through and nothing happens / just a Mii Costume again? Yes. But we will keep wishing for a star (in Smash)!

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk!

 

[Polarthief]

I think the problem here is trying to assign a definitive view to something extremely subjective like Smash desires and just what the game means to any individual person.

Of course. I have the overconfidence because I chose to go all in, so I do believe he's coming. Do I know, for a fact, he's 100% guaranteed? Of course not.

to a character like Geno, who is not only a side character in his game

I wish people would stop mistaking the MAIN CHARACTER OF THE STORY for a side character. If I could find my old post where I broke down every character based on if they're Main (Mario and Geno), Side (Mallow, Peach, Bowser, Smithy), and Minor (most bosses), this is where I'd post it, but TL;DR: Geno is by no means a "side character".

Something worth pointing out is that Geno isn't a "side" character in SMRPG. He's one of the overarching main characters, and a key part of the story. <snipped the rest>

Thank you, Moptimus. Unless people just flat out ignored the story entirely, Geno is by no means a "side" character like Mallow (or Bowser and Peach). The story involves him from literally after you defeat Bowser in his castle to the end of the game. Just because he's not present until the second star piece doesn't mean he's a side character by any means.

Legit, does anyone here think Geno is less of a main character than Mallow, a character who has nothing to do with the main plot? Finding his home is the B-plot, hell even the C-plot for the brief period between running into Geno and finding Peach. Smithy and the Star Road is the A-plot. Mario finding Peach is *his* main plot, and it is the A-plot until you run into Geno, then it becomes a B-plot (even though you find her very soon after getting Geno).

 

[Lord Woomy]

Of course. I have the overconfidence because I chose to go all in, so I do believe he's coming. Do I know, for a fact, he's 100% guaranteed? Of course not.

This reminds me of a rant that I wrote a bit ago that I'll post here:
What's the point of people constantly saying "Ohhhh, don't be so confident with Geno, you'll only set your self up for disappointment again"??? Like, why should I constantly have to have every piece of evidence and boon to his chances nullified just so I don't get disappointed? I've been disappointed in life before and I'll be disappointed by life again, I'm sure, so why should I have to not actually take a stand and believe in something that I believe in just so I can run from life? Like really, all pessimism will get you is having all the good moments dulled down when they actually do happen because you've spent months depressing yourself over everything. I wanna take a ****ing stand, not just sit on my hands and mope.

 

[Polarthief]

This reminds me of a rant that I wrote a bit ago that I'll post here:
What's the point of people constantly saying "Ohhhh, don't be so confident with Geno, you'll only set your self up for disappointment again"??? Like, why should I constantly have to have every piece of evidence and boon to his chances nullified just so I don't get disappointed? I've been disappointed in life before and I'll be disappointed by life again, I'm sure, so why should I have to not actually take a stand and believe in something that I believe in just so I can run from life? Like really, all pessimism will get you is having all the good moments dulled down when they actually do happen because you've spent months depressing yourself over everything. I wanna take a ****ing stand, not just sit on my hands and mope.

I mean, I'll be massively disappointed either way, so I might as well be overconfident and optimistic (for once in my life) on something I'm very passionate about. Just my two cents.

 

[7NATOR]

Honestly, if bonus characters are happening, it can be a mixture of these factors:

• We won't be seeing a new Smash game for a while and they want to fulfill as many fan requests as possible
• The deadline of December 2021 had this in mind
• They got the rights for a very requested character and nothing else
• They don't have enough resources to deliver everyone as a full pack (Ex: We can only make 6 full packs, but we have resources to add 4 standalone fighters alongside the pass)

Right now, the only 2 characters I can see being bonuses are Sora and Waluigi, but others could happen like that. I don't think Geno falls in that category because Square has been opening their hand more with Dragon Quest and Trials of Mana. Not only that, but Geno is a long time fan request. That's what bothers me about the Premium Mii Costume argument: Cuphead and Sans are characters with a decent fan-following in the recent years. They didn't exist before Smash 4. Not only has Geno has been requested for a long time, it's fanbase is actually bigger (one of biggest left, don't believe me? check the page number right now). So was the case with Ridley. So was the case with K. Rool. So was the case with Banjo. Every big fan request fighter got the full treatment and love that the fans wanted and people want the same for Geno. Simple as that.

Not only that, but all the content that comes with a character is also something important. In June 2018, back before the game's launch, I wanted a Persona character in Smash but I was divided between Yu and Joker because while I consider Joker to have the coolest design of the two, I didn't want them to leave out Persona 4's amazing soundtrack out of the mix. Fortunately, I got the best of both worlds. Super Mario RPG has an amazing soundtrack, some of the most unique characters that a Mario game had, interesting places like Nimbus Land, Star Hill, Moleville and more. The love isn't for just a character, it's for the entire game/franchise it comes from.

One character that explains my thoughts well is Professor Layton: Can you represent him very faithfully as a Mii Costume? Yes, I did him as a Swordfighter since Smash 4. This devalues or puts him in the back of the list of characters that can become playable? Of course not. People love the Professor Layton series and its characters. Another example: after 6 was revealed, one of the characters that started reappearing was Rex/Pyra: now isn't he a Premium Mii Costume? He even has Azurda sitting on his helmet! Does this devalue him as a playable fighter? No. There's more that can be done with him and Pyra as a tag team and even incorporating the feel of playing as him in XC2. Visual is not the only thing that matters. Cuphead and Sans don't play at all how they are in their games, as most of the Mii Costumes.

And that brings me to my last point, a defining factor of a true Smash moveset over movesets created by fans or present in fangames: They don't need to strictly follow the source material to create the fighter. The only exception to this rule would be fighting game characters like Ryu and Terry, because they we're created with that purpose in mind, and even then they created a new move for Terry's up air. That's what makes me excited about Geno, actually: seeing what Sakurai can do with a possessed doll, because we have none in Smash (obligatory "It doesn't matter if a character is popular or recognizable" quote here). If anything, this gives even more power to Geno over other big characters: none of them can even give the same thing.

This is why I'm positive about Geno, and, as time is passing, more and more evidences, as portrayed by The List(tm), are appearing in Geno's favor, just like Banjo. Can all of this fall through and nothing happens / just a Mii Costume again? Yes. But we will keep wishing for a star (in Smash)!

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk!

Wouldn't Sora as a bonus character be leaving out alot of his world out of Smash since as a bonus he wouldn't even come with a stage

Otherwise I actually do agree with what you're saying. However i will say that i don't think people Suggest Geno as a Premium costume because he fits the body build and is "in the back of the line" in terms of value as a Playable character. It's simply a matter of Priorty. With there only being 6 slots in the Fighter Pass, characters that might have gotten in if there were more slots in this Fighter Pass might not get their time to shine as a Playable character and some might have to settle as a Costume or something. Same thing with bonus characters. I can see Geno being his own Fighter Pass because SMRPG is kinda of it's own world, kind of like Paper Mario. at least i could see Geno as his own FP over Waluigi.

At the same time though SMRPG is just another subsidiary of the Mario Franchise and we already do have alot of Mario Stages and content, and if they rather use the other 5 slots to Represent 100% new Franchises, or Franchises that don't have stages or much music in it (Like with ARMS, and could be with something like Golden Sun), I could see Geno taking the backburner as a Bonus character. In this outcome though he still be playable. that's better than what you can say for Most characters.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Not to mention Ice Climbers, which had a singular NES game few people remembered, yet the Smash fandom still threw a collective tantrum when they weren't brought back for Smash 4.

Yeah, but they are veterans, and therefore any arguments against them are completely invalidated. Apparently.

Something worth pointing out is that Geno isn't a "side" character in SMRPG. He's one of the overarching main characters, and a key part of the story.

Newcomer DLC thread be like:

 

[pupNapoleon]

View attachment 271368
I-I think you missed my point in its entirety. Just because Geno's "body type" fits being a premium Mii Costume doesn't suddenly mean they're gonna make him one instead of being a playable character, that's not evidence, that's just blind speculation. I could've easily just taken more then 5 seconds to think of 3 characters that fit the premium Mii Costume "body type" and it would've been the same. If "body type" is the only argument that you can muster for why Geno will be a premium costume, then you really need a better argument...

I didnt miss your point. You, seemingly, referenced me- or at least, given the fact that I brought up a conversation on Mii Costumes. Which means you were referring to my argument.

You asked why other threads/characters don't deal with the same ideas about being relegated to a mii upgrade. It's not blind speculation, but it sounds like maybe you didnt read my posts, particularly the one on silhouettes. Since you references my argument, I told you why I asked. Geno is the same shape as a Mii Gunner.

I didnt say that makes him a costume. I said it's something that has nothing to do with Shantae and Crash, or specifically, the guy far above who said Chrom. There is clearly a difference. No, it doesnt mean Geno is a Mii costume. It's clear that no one in this thread is going to change their opinion, myself included. However, that key difference is a pretty huge difference as to why other characters dont, quote, "deal with this."

And its fine. I've learned a lot in this day.

That said, I'm curious. What five characters do you see that fit the body type that don't have this brought up to them? Personally, I cannot think of one character that could be a Mii costume that shouldn't be a Mii costume (upgrade, specific). Even Steve, a huge icon to gaming, could easily be a Mii upgrade in my book.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

 

[Polarthief]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

Having character development doesn't make you a "main character". Mallow doesn't affect the plot nor is affected by the plot in any way. Yes, he has some very light character development of goes from crybaby to not-as-much-of-a-crybaby (honestly, none of the characters have any *real* development in the game), but that doesn't make him main. Mario's main because you play as him from start to finish, he's front and center, and his name's on the title. That said, Geno is also main because the story, the main plot, is all about him. It affects him and in turn, he affects the story as well. You can have multiple main characters; there's plenty of shows and movies that do that. To call Mallow a "main" character because of his very light development, just because no one else gets development (at least Bowser shows another side of him, but it's not 'development'), is extremely unfair to both Mario and Geno. For the record, a "main character" doesn't have to have any real development. Who made up that rule that he does?

Also "objective opinion", what? Sorry, you don't get to take a crap on everyone else when you say something ridiculous like that. Opinions are subjective by nature because they're not facts (which are objective). An objective opinion is an oxymoron.

 

[Lord Woomy]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

"You're mean to people with objective opinions but if you have the opinion that Geno is a main character in SMRPG then you need to be educated because you don't understand plot structure"
Surely, the thread full of Geno fans doesn't know Geno's role in SMRPG and clearly need an expert to decipher it.
Surprisingly, people don't like their own thread being infested with people telling us he'll be a Mii Costume using poor arguments. But whatever, guess we're still a cult/echo chamber/ whatever people constantly claim that we are because we gasp actually want our most wanted character to be in Smash!

 

[pupNapoleon]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

To be fair dude, 'main character' is about exact of a word as 'average.' There isn't actually an exact definition.

Now... the term used in specificity was 'protagonist.' And then the user went on to define it with the characters of a deuteragonist. So I dont know if it really matters.

EDIT: There isn't 'one' exact definition. In this case, mathematics, average could be used for mean, median, mode, or range.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually Geno thread, I do gotta ask. In the situation where Geno becomes Playable, are you prepared for him to be Voiced. He could be mute of course, but if i remember discussions on here, Geno is actually talkative in the actual game. In anycase i can't really think of how he should sound, except for maybe the guy that voiced him in Smash Kingdom

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Actually Geno thread, I do gotta ask. In the situation where Geno becomes Playable, are you prepared for him to be Voiced. He could be mute of course, but if i remember discussions on here, Geno is actually talkative in the actual game. In anycase i can't really think of how he should sound, except for maybe the guy that voiced him in Smash Kingdom

I'll take whatever I can get

 

[Franco Geno]

Don't you guys love when random people come to this thread with the sole purpose of spamming the same dumb arguments about how "Geno is definitely going to be a Mii Costume" but the second someone replies to them they start acting like the victims, dodon't make me laugh.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Actually Geno thread, I do gotta ask. In the situation where Geno becomes Playable, are you prepared for him to be Voiced. He could be mute of course, but if i remember discussions on here, Geno is actually talkative in the actual game. In anycase i can't really think of how he should sound, except for maybe the guy that voiced him in Smash Kingdom

I'd be fine if he was mute but if I had to pick a voice for him, it'd be something like Dende from DBZ Abridged's (RIP) voice. It's the voice I always hear in my head for him lol

 

[Polarthief]

To be fair dude, 'main character' is about exact of a word as 'average.' There isn't actually an exact definition.

Now... the term used in specificity was 'protagonist.' And then the user went on to define it with the characters of a deuteragonist. So I dont know if it really matters.

Literally the first google result: "The definition of the main character is the character who the story is mostly about or the point of view of the story." Said same website also talks about the difference between protag and main character.

Now it's funny, by that definition, it explains both Geno and Mario in that order: The story is mostly about Geno, but the POV is mostly from Mario since you "play" as him the most (since you literally move him around on the maps and stuff), which is literally what I said in that both Geno and Mario are the main two characters.

TBH to me, it's even funnier that people claim a "main character has to have character development", but man, there's so many characters that don't develop at all that people just absolutely love and adore, and it'd be impossible to call other characters the "main" character of their game. I'm not saying it's good or bad writing; I'm not here to judge that, I'm just saying that because a character gets character development doesn't mean they're more or less main.

Not to go too OT, but let's take a look at Undertale: A game that has virtually zero development for the playable Human character, as you never speak, never emote, never even have a different sprite as you do various deeds or misdeeds (and you can do some horrible and unspeakble misdeeds in this game) throughout your entire adventure. The POV is very obviously from their eyes since you're playing the game the entire time as them. Meanwhile, a lot of characters that aren't you get actual development as the story and timeline(s) go on. The playable Human character is essentially Mario in SMRPG, in that you play as them and see the story from their POV, but still get virtually no character development from the game. At the same time though, the entire story affects the Human (characters interact with the Human specifically) and is affected by them (they will react very differently based on your actions and who you choose to spare or kill). This is the same as Geno being affected (Star Road destroyed) and also affects (redirects Mario to the goal of collecting star pieces and defeating Smithy) the story in SMRPG.

After all that, would you still say the Human in Undertale isn't the "main character"? If so, then you're also saying neither Geno nor Mario are the main characters in SMRPG, but Monster Kid, a character that has no bearing on the story (but is affected by your actions), is more of a main character just because they have some character development at some point Telling Undyne, their idol, to back off of you in Pacifist, or telling you to stop killing monsters in Genocide.

Actually Geno thread, I do gotta ask. In the situation where Geno becomes Playable, are you prepared for him to be Voiced. He could be mute of course, but if i remember discussions on here, Geno is actually talkative in the actual game. In anycase i can't really think of how he should sound, except for maybe the guy that voiced him in Smash Kingdom

I'd hope Sakurai/Nintendo does right by him if they do VA, but I'd be fine if he's mute.

Don't you guys love when random people come to this thread with the sole purpose of spamming the same dumb arguments about how "Geno is definitely going to be a Mii Costume" but the second someone replies to them they start acting like the victims, dodon't make me laugh.

Flash that victim card so hard when people are tired of your crap. It's honestly just aggravating at this point to get both detractors and dectrator-sympathizers, as well as both of them that play the role of victim from the big bad Geno fans.

It's almost like we're tired of having to defend our character in his own freaking thread or something.

I'd be fine if he was mute but if I had to pick a voice for him, it'd be something like Dende from DBZ Abridged's (RIP) voice. It's the voice I always hear in my head for him lol

I was thinking that too last time the thread talked about it (you were probably the one to bring Dende Abridged up last time too, haha), but I almost want him mute because that'll remind me of the super-cute comics that one artist has been doing (totally forgot their name, rip) that makes Geno super cute and mute.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Don't you guys love when random people come to this thread with the sole purpose of spamming the same dumb arguments about how "Geno is definitely going to be a Mii Costume" but the second someone replies to them they start acting like the victims, dodon't make me laugh.
View attachment 271371

I cant speak for everyone, but I came in here for conversation.
And I think that was pretty clear.

If there are moderators in this thread, which I somewhat doubt, then I suggest they do a better job with aggressive and disrespectful messages like yours.

This is a forum. Not your bedroom. Opinions, and certainly questions, that disagree with yours, are well permitted.

I understand why Geno has such adverse reactions though. This community is absolutely one of the most hostile. That's quite clear pretty quickly.
I cannot believe this user quoted put up a picture of a weapon afterwards. That's actually a first for me on this forum.

And I've seen some people here that have gone on to do some pretty heinous things post forum (I'm thinking of that Mario guy who bought all the Rosalina amiibo).

 

[Lord Woomy]

Don't you guys love when random people come to this thread with the sole purpose of spamming the same dumb arguments about how "Geno is definitely going to be a Mii Costume" but the second someone replies to them they start acting like the victims, dodon't make me laugh.
View attachment 271371

People: "Oh, I'm gonna go to the Geno Thread and tell them their character will be a Mii Costume, I'm sure they'll receive me well!"
Finds out Geno thread is actually full of people dedicated to the idea of Geno being a full fledged fighter
People:

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Having character development doesn't make you a "main character". Mallow doesn't affect the plot nor is affected by the plot in any way. Yes, he has some very light character development of goes from crybaby to not-as-much-of-a-crybaby (honestly, none of the characters have any *real* development in the game), but that doesn't make him main. Mario's main because you play as him from start to finish, he's front and center, and his name's on the title. That said, Geno is also main because the story, the main plot, is all about him. It affects him and in turn, he affects the story as well. You can have multiple main characters; there's plenty of shows and movies that do that. To call Mallow a "main" character because of his very light development, just because no one else gets development (at least Bowser shows another side of him, but it's not 'development'), is extremely unfair to both Mario and Geno. For the record, a "main character" doesn't have to have any real development. Who made up that rule that he does?

Also "objective opinion", what? Sorry, you don't get to take a crap on everyone else when you say something ridiculous like that. Opinions are subjective by nature because they're not facts (which are objective). An objective opinion is an oxymoron.

Don't bother with the guy. He has never heard of concepts such as the "Flat Character Arc"

Here is an example of a Flat character arc, Goku. Yes really.

Geno is a "Flat Character arc". Mario also fits into this (specifically in SMRPG) Geno's purpose is not the make himself better like Mallow (who is a positive character development arc), but rather to make the world around him better. In this case, resolve the Star Road issue. He believes in the truth that the Star Road must be repaired, and so he goes off joining Mario in his adventure (who also tends to fall into the Flat Character Arc in his RPGs, he believes in the truth of saving the Mushroom Kingdom, and his adventures in his RPGs are about solving the problems of the people he meets, since he as a characters is in a good position that does not need development like Mallow does)

BUT, even with the above i said, I don't know why people even bother doing this "how important is the character in this story" ****. We got all the main ones outside of Geno and Mallow and it's clear Mallow isn't beign choosen here and no amount of "MUH CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT" is gonna change that since this is the guy who put a generic as **** mook in the game.

But this user is nothing special. Hating on long demanded reps (like Waluigi, saying "japAn Shas SUperior Taste" just because Waluigi isn't that popular in japan, apparently) as expected.

 

[Malo Mart]

Actually Geno thread, I do gotta ask. In the situation where Geno becomes Playable, are you prepared for him to be Voiced. He could be mute of course, but if i remember discussions on here, Geno is actually talkative in the actual game. In anycase i can't really think of how he should sound, except for maybe the guy that voiced him in Smash Kingdom

I'm definitely on the "Geno should be more" camp, he does talk but he still strikes me as the quiet, man of few words type. that said I wouldn't be opposed to him being given a voice though, I just can't imagine one that fits him that well from the top of the head.

Don't you guys love when random people come to this thread with the sole purpose of spamming the same dumb arguments about how "Geno is definitely going to be a Mii Costume" but the second someone replies to them they start acting like the victims, dodon't make me laugh.
View attachment 271371

I like how Dodo is looking away from the direction of his gun like a badass!

 

[pinshadow]

I cant speak for everyone, but I came in here for conversation.
And I think that was pretty clear.

If there are moderators in this thread, which I somewhat doubt, then I suggest they do a better job with aggressive and disrespectful messages like yours.

This is a forum. Not your bedroom. Opinions, and certainly questions, that disagree with yours, are well permitted.

I understand why Geno has such adverse reactions though. This community is absolutely one of the most hostile. That's quite clear pretty quickly.

I mean you literally came into the thread to say "I think Geno works better as an upgraded mii costume" to the thread who wants him in as a playable character and specifically wants NOT that. What are you expecting? That this is somehow different than going into any other character thread and doing the same thing just because Geno was already a costume last game and that he somewhat fits the proportions of Mii Gunner?

 

[Polarthief]

I cant speak for everyone, but I came in here for conversation.
And I think that was pretty clear.

If there are moderators in this thread, which I somewhat doubt, then I suggest they do a better job with aggressive and disrespectful messages like yours.

This is a forum. Not your bedroom. Opinions, and certainly questions, that disagree with yours, are well permitted.

I understand why Geno has such adverse reactions though. This community is absolutely one of the most hostile. That's quite clear pretty quickly.

Opinions that are against the character in question, with some actual thought put into them, is totally fine, especially if they're playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion/debate.

Opinions that "Geno will be costumed/not playable because I say so" are trash and do not belong in the Geno *SUPPORT* thread, where we SUPPORT the idea of Geno getting into the game as PLAYABLE (and not a costume). We're tired of having to defend Geno to people who still think Spirits deconfirm, to people who still think irrelevancy matters, to people who still think third party shouldn't be a thing. Or people who just hate on Geno for the sake of hating on Geno.

Geno is a "Flat Character arc".

I'm pretty sure I can guess what that means without looking it up, but I will anyway.
*one brief Google search later* Yup, that's 100% spot on for Geno and about 95% of what I assumed the term to mean. Flat characters can absolutely still be main characters too.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

This isn't GameFAQs. You're entitled to your opinion but if you're gonna come into these threads just to act like this then get out.

 

[Franco Geno]

I mean you literally came into the thread to say "I think Geno works better as an upgraded mii costume" to the thread who wants him in as a playable character and specifically wants NOT that. What are you expecting? That this is somehow different than going into any other thread and doing the same thing just because Geno was already a costume last game and that he somewhat fits the proportions of Mii Gunner?

Plus he literally just proved my point by acting as a victim and taking the blame on me as soon as i replied

I like how Dodo is looking away from the direction of his gun like a badass!

That's because Dodo has no time to deal with this kind of things

 

[Polarthief]

That's because Dodo has no time to deal with this kind of things

Dodo ain't got time for this detractor nonsense. He's got way too many statues to polish off.

 

[Franco Geno]

Dodo ain't got time for this detractor nonsense. He's got way too many statues to polish off.

Yeah, those statues aren't gonna polish themselves tho

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

I cant speak for everyone, but I came in here for conversation.
And I think that was pretty clear.

If there are moderators in this thread, which I somewhat doubt, then I suggest they do a better job with aggressive and disrespectful messages like yours.

This is a forum. Not your bedroom. Opinions, and certainly questions, that disagree with yours, are well permitted.

I understand why Geno has such adverse reactions though. This community is absolutely one of the most hostile. That's quite clear pretty quickly.
I cannot believe this user quoted put up a picture of a weapon afterwards. That's actually a first for me on this forum.

And I've seen some people here that have gone on to do some pretty heinous things post forum (I'm thinking of that Mario guy who bought all the Rosalina amiibo).

Bro, you’re literally the one that came in here with your argument. Don’t act like the victim when someone doesn’t like or agree with your statement.

 

[cosmicB]

Of course. I have the overconfidence because I chose to go all in, so I do believe he's coming. Do I know, for a fact, he's 100% guaranteed? Of course not.



I wish people would stop mistaking the MAIN CHARACTER OF THE STORY for a side character. If I could find my old post where I broke down every character based on if they're Main (Mario and Geno), Side (Mallow, Peach, Bowser, Smithy), and Minor (most bosses), this is where I'd post it, but TL;DR: Geno is by no means a "side character".



Thank you, Moptimus. Unless people just flat out ignored the story entirely, Geno is by no means a "side" character like Mallow (or Bowser and Peach). The story involves him from literally after you defeat Bowser in his castle to the end of the game. Just because he's not present until the second star piece doesn't mean he's a side character by any means.

Legit, does anyone here think Geno is less of a main character than Mallow, a character who has nothing to do with the main plot? Finding his home is the B-plot, hell even the C-plot for the brief period between running into Geno and finding Peach. Smithy and the Star Road is the A-plot. Mario finding Peach is *his* main plot, and it is the A-plot until you run into Geno, then it becomes a B-plot (even though you find her very soon after getting Geno).

This is largely going to get into a semantics debate on common tropes and narrative trappings, such as advertising, party order, decoy protagonists, air time, character development, character arcs (Mallow's is far more prominent, I think we'd agree there), lore prevalence, plot driving, etc.

Since we're talking about other dlc characters and their properties, I think Edelgard from 3H is a good comparison. Probably the most important character in the entire game as far as plot driving goes, but ultimately a big slouch when it comes to things like lore and the actual "truth" of the story's main conflict. There's a rather large contingent of fans that call her the main character when looking at the story as a whole despite that. I would put Geno in a similar role, albeit obviously not a 1:1 with some things being the reverse.

This too is a subjective debate that goes into narrative theory, but in the end it doesn't matter what conclusion we come to because the advertising portion is going to win out as it all comes down to how Nintendo perceives it. Mario is THE main character, that is pretty unarguable if we just take Nintendo's word for it. Geno's importance to the overall plot is irrelevant on that front. He's just another party member, just like any JRPG you can think of with a distinct protagonist.

Do you have anything to say about the rest of my post explaining the possible mindset of some naysayers?

 

[MattX20]

I wonder how many people attempted to make a fully functioning Geno puppet or will if he does become a reality

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I mean you literally came into the thread to say "I think Geno works better as an upgraded mii costume" to the thread who wants him in as a playable character and specifically wants NOT that. What are you expecting? That this is somehow different than going into any other character thread and doing the same thing just because Geno was already a costume last game and that he somewhat fits the proportions of Mii Gunner?

That would be like if i came to the Saber thread and said "hey guys Saber is neat and all but because she originated from an eroge she can't be in Smash at all" and then be all defensive about myself when people argue against me.

This isn't something exclusive to the Geno thread, at all. It's common in all character threads here in fact. I saw it in the Rayman thread a while back.

 

[TriggerX]

This thread is way too worried about what other people think of Geno, just welcome those into the thread and if you don’t like what they have to say mute them.

However in the grand scheme of things these “detractors” have at least kept the conversation in this thread on topic. Lol sometimes I have to double check to see if I’m in the waluigi thread. Or newcomer speculation thread.
Personally I don’t mind it, I find a lot of their points valid.

As far as Geno’s role in the story, He’s definitely not the main protagonist. It’s not that he doesn’t help in pushing the story, it’s that all the events pretty much revolve around Mario at the center since that’s who you play as.
I’d say he’s on the same level as Falco or slippy toad is to star fox.
Either way, he would be out of place as far as dlc goes since most characters do follow the pattern of main character or series representatives. Although as far as smrpg is concerned, I would pretty much say overtime Geno evolved into the face of that specific game.

 

[StarLight42]

It is so sad everytime someone with an objective opinion comes here everyone discredits it if it doent support the character you want, you take it so personal and even argue the fact that Geno is not even close to a main character in SMRPG (if you seriously think he is, you need a narrative structure class, cause doing something plot-wise doesnt mean you are a main character, laughable the idea that the actual second most important character of the story, Mallow, is underrated when he at least has character development, Geno only has a motivation, not development at all).

man, every time you come into this thread it’s to make up some stupid bull**** why Geno can’t be a fighter, and then you cry that your posts aren’t received well in a thread that is geared toward the idea of geno being a fighter

why not just get out and stay out

 

[Organization XIII]

[*]Mii Gunner's moveset really wouldn't be a great representation of what Geno can do.

While I agree with the rest of your points this one is pretty much a non issue. Mii's are a pretty terrible representation of all the characters that got one. They were never meant to be accurate or a good portrayal but a quick way to allow some form of playability for characters that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

 

[Polarthief]

Since we're talking about other dlc characters and their properties, I think Edelgard from 3H is a good comparison.

I assume you're comparing Edelgard to Geno, to which I respectfully disagree.

Probably the most important character in the entire game as far as plot driving goes, but ultimately a big slouch when it comes to things like lore and the actual "truth" of the story's main conflict.

She's very important (the other house leaders are too, especially when you play their houses) in an entire third of the game. The problem with 3H compared to FE is that there aren't "sections" of the game. 3H has the first section, then the middle section that you're mostly talking about, and finally, the last section, and the last section is so vastly different from the first two, that it's basically its own story arc after the events of the end of the previous section. Edelgard is a very vital character in the second section, but not so much the first and third.

Honestly, she's more akin to Smithy, except doesn't last nearly as long and has a much bigger driving force. Geno however has been affected from the very beginning, and drives the party onward in the right direction by about a quarter/third through the game. From then on, he's always been there to guide the party onward in pursuit of his goal (that is for the greater good). Geno is also, as we said earlier, absolutely a flat character, while Edelgard is anything but flat (except not in that way because she's actually not well-endowed, don't be a pervert you guys!). She's got plenty of, albeit not the best paced, tons of development that gets shoved down your throat very quickly.

man, every time you come into this thread it’s to make up some stupid bull**** why Geno can’t be a fighter, and then you cry that your posts aren’t received well in a thread that is geared toward the idea of geno being a fighter

why not just get out and stay out

Man there's a really good real life parallel to virtually everything you're saying right now regarding a certain group of people who try force their awful ideology on every media franchise (including video games) even if it would make the media franchise worse... Funny how that works.

Except the Geno part, obviously; more the whole "this is how everything will be cuz I say so" part.

While I agree with the rest of your points this one is pretty much a non issue. Mii's are a pretty terrible representation of all the characters that got one. They were never meant to be accurate or a good portrayal but a quick way to allow some form of playability for characters that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

Whaaat? You mean Sans and Cuphead aren't the same exact character as Mega Man X?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Bro, you’re literally the one that came in here with your argument. Don’t act like the victim when someone doesn’t like or agree with your statement.

Your profile pic perfectly matches this message

 

[T2by4]

Post yfw the Arms Rep is upgraded from a spirit/assist trophy.