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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Fatmanonice

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One problem, there is no E3 this year. Nintendo will do it’s own direct. With direct-caliber smash announcements
For all intents and purposes it's still the "E3" Direct. It's a mid year Direct during a year where they all but postponed a majority of their major Spring announcements.

Also, possibly more evidence that 6 was originally supposed to be an April release. The rereleases of Plant, K. Rool, and Isabelle were all pushed back to a yet to be determined date. They were supposed to be out April 15th:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nintendo-amiibo-super-smash-bros-isabelle/6255155.p?skuId=6255155
 

TriggerX

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Square bending the knee and making Geno a fighter is winning the war though. They can piss and moan all they want but regardless of how much content they gatekeep, we would have still saved out guy as a result.
It’s weird that a lot of people on this thread seem to blame Square Enix. Overall I’m more inclined to believe that it’s Nintendo’s fault that certain characters were picked over others, or lack of content. It’s not like Square is super stingy about their copyrights/ properties either, they have plenty of cameos like Noctis appearing in other publisher’s Ips.

If Square was pushing any representative though Geno would be the last choice for them. It makes no sense on their part to push Smrpg. Sure, they will put a price tag on Geno, but that’s business at the end of the day. Nintendo can’t expect to use their properties without cost. It falls on Nintendo to determine whether or not that cost is worth it.

overall they allowed Cloud to join in on Smash. I doubt they care too much about a character they can’t use. However I wouldn’t be surprised if during negotiations Square suggest other characters they’d rather push.
 
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Let Geno Smash

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If Geno comes but with only 2 songs and a bare minimum spirit board, I'm going to be pissed at Square for dragging their feet, acting like they are only participating out of protest,, AGAIN. Also, all that work to not have Cloud have his English VA, then they recast him in the remake anyway. No spirits, can't even give him his original artwork render as a fighter spirit, 2 songs. Dragon Quest only made out slightly better.

I fear Square will act like the Load with Geno. At least he'll be playable, but they might offer the least involvement that they can.
I honestly expecting a good number of songs due Shimomura has alredy work in smash, between 7 and 15
 

SSGuy

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It’s weird that a lot of people on this thread seem to blame Square Enix. Overall I’m more inclined to believe that it’s Nintendo’s fault that certain characters were picked over others, or lack of content. It’s not like Square is super stingy about their copyrights/ properties either, they have plenty of cameos like Noctis appearing in other publisher’s Ips.

If Square was pushing any representative though Geno would be the last choice for them. It makes no sense on their part to push Smrpg. Sure, they will put a price tag on Geno, but that’s business at the end of the day. Nintendo can’t expect to use their properties without cost. It falls on Nintendo to determine whether or not that cost is worth it.

overall they allowed Cloud to join in on Smash. I doubt they care too much about a character they can’t use. However I wouldn’t be surprised if during negotiations Square suggest other characters they’d rather push.
I really put blame on them for the lack of including Geno with other opportunities that were easily in their control. Fortune Street and Mario Sports Mix. While I understand wanting to focus on DQ/FF cameos, there was no reason to be so negligent about gate keeping Geno or Mallow. Admittingly, I am much harsher to SE than I am to Nintendo mainly because they are the ones who own the character to begin with. In the event Nintendo owned the character, I'm sure we'd see more use from him. (Other RPG series, maybe more cameos etc) Nothing major, but definitely enough to satisfy me as a fan.
 

Firox

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It’s weird that a lot of people on this thread seem to blame Square Enix. Overall I’m more inclined to believe that it’s Nintendo’s fault that certain characters were picked over others, or lack of content. It’s not like Square is super stingy about their copyrights/ properties either, they have plenty of cameos like Noctis appearing in other publisher’s Ips.

If Square was pushing any representative though Geno would be the last choice for them. It makes no sense on their part to push Smrpg. Sure, they will put a price tag on Geno, but that’s business at the end of the day. Nintendo can’t expect to use their properties without cost. It falls on Nintendo to determine whether or not that cost is worth it.

overall they allowed Cloud to join in on Smash. I doubt they care too much about a character they can’t use. However I wouldn’t be surprised if during negotiations Square suggest other characters they’d rather push.
While I still think that SE is pretty stingy (yeah, two songs on Midgar and the dead minimum number of spirits for Cloud only) I'm inclined to agree with you that if anyone truly gives Geno the bone at this point, it's Nintendo, especially if they fail to bring back so much as the mii costume. The thing is, Nintendo would be the only one of the two companies to push Geno since he came from one of their own Mario spinoffs. B-K has demonstrated that being a 3rd party character of a rival company isn't even an obstacle if they really want it. That said, since Sakurai has declared Nintendo the chooser of the DLC, it's completely up to them whether they will indulge fans or other own agenda. We can only hope that those two things are one and the same.
 

MrJudd

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So, something to discuss here that was brought up in the Newcomer thread and I think it could be fun to talk about:
There's has been a weird tendency for these character glitches to point up to a Newcomer's play style, as Fatmanonice has pointed out before (quote me on this, the Bayo thing is that the ARMS Representative's attacks will keep going until you let go of the button/reach maximum range). Based on this:

What makes Ness unique over other fighters already in the game that could be used for a Newcomer? And could this be pointing towards Geno? I can see some model similarities, but I'm guessing that something more than just this detail could be pointing to him, but I have no idea.
 

MattX20

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So, something to discuss here that was brought up in the Newcomer thread and I think it could be fun to talk about:
There's has been a weird tendency for these character glitches to point up to a Newcomer's play style, as Fatmanonice has pointed out before (quote me on this, the Bayo thing is that the ARMS Representative's attacks will keep going until you let go of the button/reach maximum range). Based on this:

What makes Ness unique over other fighters already in the game that could be used for a Newcomer? And could this be pointing towards Geno? I can see some model similarities, but I'm guessing that something more than just this detail could be pointing to him, but I have no idea.
Pretty sure that glitch has been around longer than this
 

MisterMike

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If we get a Geno amiibo I'd actually lose it. That would be amazing.
Don't be so hard on yourself man, I'm sure you'd keep a good eye on it. :ultpacman:
Hmm, E3 2020/June Direct predictions? I'll give it a shot. What I'd like to see in Nintendo's June Direct would be:

- CP 6 official reveal (FINALLY)
- Super Mario All-Stars 2 (yes, gimme dat Super Mario 64 + Super Mario Sunshine + Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 combo!)
- Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars FINALLY making it into the NSO SNES Library (along with some other good SNES games like, DKC, Chrono Trigger, FF VI, etc.)
- CP 7 official reveal (none of that "oh, it's from this franchise but can't tell WHO exactly it is at the moment" nonsense) would be down if it's either Geno or Crash.
- Super Mario RPG remake (?) OR a good Paper Mario RPG game (pls).
- Mario Kart 9 reveal (?)
- First footage of Metroid Prime 4 (hopefully...)
- Metroid Prime Trilogy
- New F-ZERO (PLS NINTENDO PLS!!! F-ZERO GX/AX WAS SO SIIIIIIIICK!!!!)
- First footage of Bayonetta 3
- Official release date for DOOM Eternal on the Switch
- CP 8 official reveal = Doom Slayer (or Crash if Geno is CP 7).
  • FP6 formal reveal, followed by FP7 reveal. I really don't believe we're getting three characters, especially considering what's going on in the world. As to who that character is, I have no idea. Naturally, I hope it's Geno.
  • A new Mario game, either SMAS2, Odyssey 2, Mario Kart 9, or something entirely new. Either way, Mario time.
  • A new trailer for BotW2, with a release window of Holiday 2021. In it's place, Skyward Sword HD is revealed. It fixes most of the biggest issues with the game, namely they allow you to limit Fi's dialogue only to what's needed, allow you to play without motion controls, opens the game up a little more, and introduces a hard mode. Wishful thinking mode, they also rerelease all the other 3D remakes onto the Switch so they can get even more of our money.
  • A couple new games coming to NSO: In terms of NES games, Earthbound Beginnings, Startropics 2, and the other two Ninja Gaiden games are right up there for me. Devil World, Lemmings and Tetris would be cool as well. Also Panic Restaurant. In terms of SNES games, oh my god where do I begin?! Super Mario All-Stars, Super Mario RPG, Earthbound, the entire DKC trilogy, Wario's Woods, Mario & Wario, Panel De Pon, Super Punch-Out!!, Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Legend of the Mystical Ninja, Skyblazer, the Satellaview Zelda games. Basically, there's a lot. Personally, Earthbound, DKC trilogy, and Wario's Woods are my most wanted.
  • A new Sonic game, either Sonic Adventure Remake or a new game altogether. It was recently announced that the SXSW news they were going to share has been pushed back a bit, so I'm fully expecting The Smoking Crater That Used to Be E3 will be when it gets revealed.
  • At least one game from a seldom-seen franchise. Think Wario, Metroid, any of their back catalogue of franchises. Except F-Zero, we're never getting that. ;-;
  • No news on Pikmin 4. Not because they don't have anything to show, but rather they know you really want it and just want to see you suffer.
  • Some new franchise like Splatoon, ARMS, or RingFit Adventure, that gives a new spin to an old genre.
  • More 3rd Party ports/remakes/collections of older games, because why not?
  • A reminder that life is horrible for everyone and we'll all die alone and miserable.
 

Icewolff92

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So, something to discuss here that was brought up in the Newcomer thread and I think it could be fun to talk about:
There's has been a weird tendency for these character glitches to point up to a Newcomer's play style, as Fatmanonice has pointed out before (quote me on this, the Bayo thing is that the ARMS Representative's attacks will keep going until you let go of the button/reach maximum range). Based on this:

What makes Ness unique over other fighters already in the game that could be used for a Newcomer? And could this be pointing towards Geno? I can see some model similarities, but I'm guessing that something more than just this detail could be pointing to him, but I have no idea.
If every glitch meant anything, then we would have gotten Rex & Pyra/Mythra or Akira Howard concidering the glitch that Terry had against Ice Climber. Also, wouldn¨t Mega Man be the choice for the base of Geno, would he happen to be included?

I mean, let say Min Min is the Arms rep, Bayonetta being her "inspiration" makes sense due to body type and the type of glitch. Simon/Ritcher had the chain glitch that was connected to Byleths rapid A attack when they use the sword of the creator as a chain similar to the Bellmont's whip. with Ridley and Banjo, Banjo is in simular body shape, has the flying aspect due to Kazooie, along with the likes of side B that fits as a base for Wonder Wing tackle. If you use their neutrals side by side, you will also notice how they are very similar to each other.

Unless the idea of giving Geno, neutral attacks like Ness (which I personally don¨t think fits), Mega Man should be the obvious choice, concidering he is something he could use as a base and switch around. If not Mega Man, then Mii Gunner.
 

TriggerX

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Unfortunately I feel like a majority of people here may be confused on how a lot of coding and animation is done.

Any character could be potentially used as a “base” for any character. For example Paulutena could be used as a base for Geno in terms of how her light pillar works. The characters don’t necessarily have to be the same proportions in that regard. Wolf (Has a few of Sonics moves) was a good example of this back in Brawl. And a lot of characters reuse eachother’s moves. Having similar proportions and anatomy is a plus when making hit boxes though.

Animations are a tad different, usually developed in a third party program and imported in. In this case a “base” is used of a character that could share a similar skeleton as the other. That way animations of a previously used character can be used to speed up development. But that’s all done outside the smash bros engine I’m sure.

Basically it doesn’t make much sense to correlate ness’s missing eyes to a Geno model, unless his play style is really similar to Ness.

If anything, Geno will probably use Mii gunner as a base when it comes to play style.
While I do think he could take a lot from Megaman in terms of attacks, Megaman’s animations are too stylized too stylized in my opinion to work for Geno.
 
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StarLight42

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Based on what I just read on resetera, people on this thread are getting their hopes waaaay too high for “E3” this year.

Nate Drake and Imran are being super pessimistic. They were saying stuff like “expect the holiday games to be 2021 titles, summer games to be the holiday titles”

Who knows how it will affect Smash, but i’d advise against getting your hopes up for much more than that
 

Polarthief

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Based on what I just read on resetera, people on this thread are getting their hopes waaaay too high for “E3” this year.

Nate Drake and Imran are being super pessimistic. They were saying stuff like “expect the holiday games to be 2021 titles, summer games to be the holiday titles”

Who knows how it will affect Smash, but i’d advise against getting your hopes up for much more than that
Ffs I really hope that's not the case considering how lackluster this year has been so far. AC is great and all but it can't carry all of 2020, a year where competitors are jumping even further ahead.
 

Powerman293

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Based on what I just read on resetera, people on this thread are getting their hopes waaaay too high for “E3” this year.

Nate Drake and Imran are being super pessimistic. They were saying stuff like “expect the holiday games to be 2021 titles, summer games to be the holiday titles”

Who knows how it will affect Smash, but i’d advise against getting your hopes up for much more than that
What holiday games, at least for the other consoles? New consoles are launching then, and I can't think of anything outside the yearly COD release that's coming out then.
 

TheCJBrine

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Based on what I just read on resetera, people on this thread are getting their hopes waaaay too high for “E3” this year.

Nate Drake and Imran are being super pessimistic. They were saying stuff like “expect the holiday games to be 2021 titles, summer games to be the holiday titles”

Who knows how it will affect Smash, but i’d advise against getting your hopes up for much more than that
Sounds like they could still be announced, just when you’d expect them to release will actually be later on due to the crown virus.
 

StarLight42

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Ffs I really hope that's not the case considering how lackluster this year has been so far. AC is great and all but it can't carry all of 2020, a year where competitors are jumping even further ahead.
Competitors aren’t going to be “jumping further ahead”. The virus affects everyone.
 

CannonStreak

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Fatmanonice

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Does this mean anything for Geno?
It adds more to the pile that Nintendo really is going to go hard and heavy on Mario stuff in the coming months. It's also the third of the three Wii U ports that I've been hearing forever that were very likely to happen this year so it supplements the guys I heard it from.
 

StarLight42

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In other Best Buy news, supposedly they oopsie doodled again and accidentally listed 3D World on their website, giving credence to rumors going back to early January that it's probably happening:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/3595...p59AMmsud6H43zBWQTvoyGdePl-9saPKVRmvJViok-qts
Even though 3D World being ported was always a safe bet, Best Buy once listed Persona 5 and A Link to The Past remake coming to Switch

https://www.resetera.com/threads/be...ogy-persona-5-update-listings-removed.109266/
 

Spatulo

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So, something to discuss here that was brought up in the Newcomer thread and I think it could be fun to talk about:
There's has been a weird tendency for these character glitches to point up to a Newcomer's play style, as Fatmanonice has pointed out before (quote me on this, the Bayo thing is that the ARMS Representative's attacks will keep going until you let go of the button/reach maximum range). Based on this:

What makes Ness unique over other fighters already in the game that could be used for a Newcomer? And could this be pointing towards Geno? I can see some model similarities, but I'm guessing that something more than just this detail could be pointing to him, but I have no idea.
It’s probably nothing but for the sake of some fun, Ness has a lot of projectiles with weird properties compared to other fighters. His yo-yo is also pretty much unlike anything else in the game. Weird projectiles? Totally Geno. Yo-yo? Idfk, Mike Jones confirmed.
 

MrJudd

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Unfortunately I feel like a majority of people here may be confused on how a lot of coding and animation is done.

Any character could be potentially used as a “base” for any character. For example Paulutena could be used as a base for Geno in terms of how her light pillar works. The characters don’t necessarily have to be the same proportions in that regard. Wolf (Has a few of Sonics moves) was a good example of this back in Brawl. And a lot of characters reuse eachother’s moves. Having similar proportions and anatomy is a plus when making hit boxes though.

Animations are a tad different, usually developed in a third party program and imported in. In this case a “base” is used of a character that could share a similar skeleton as the other. That way animations of a previously used character can be used to speed up development. But that’s all done outside the smash bros engine I’m sure.

Basically it doesn’t make much sense to correlate ness’s missing eyes to a Geno model, unless his play style is really similar to Ness.

If anything, Geno will probably use Mii gunner as a base when it comes to play style.
While I do think he could take a lot from Megaman in terms of attacks, Megaman’s animations are too stylized too stylized in my opinion to work for Geno.
Yeah, I know that any character can be used as a basis for any other: the thing that really caught my attention with Ness was just like what Spatulo Spatulo mentioned: stuff that no other character has / have the closest possible thing that can be used (We have 2 whip characters, but they used Simon because they served better for Byleth's Moveset). Also, I consider these glitches that weren't there at 1.0 as someone tampered with the character between updates. Aside from balancing, why would you tamper with a character, unless something about him was being used in another place?

The things that caught my attention about Ness being related to Geno were:
- The Normal Special, which is a attack that is charged by holding the button and you can release it any time, just like Geno Beam.
- The Second Jump, which is a really floaty jump that has a magical feel to it, and could work very well with the fact that Geno is a Star.
In general, every new character we've seen from DLC is a base character with a mix of 2-6 others + new stuff that can't be reused: some for animations, others for gameplay properties (which is what put the Ness glitch on my radar).
 
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Spatulo

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Yeah, I know that any character can be used as a basis for any other: the thing that really caught my attention with Ness was just like what Spatulo Spatulo mentioned: stuff that no other character has / have the closest possible thing that can be used (We have 2 whip characters, but they used Simon because they served better for Byleth's Moveset). Also, I consider these glitches that weren't there at 1.0 as someone tampered with the character between updates. Aside from balancing, why would you tamper with a character, unless something about him was being used in another place?

The things that caught my attention about Ness being related to Geno were:
- The Normal Special, which is a attack that is charged by holding the button and you can release it any time, just like Geno Beam.
- The Second Jump, which is a really floaty jump that has a magical feel to it, and could work very well with the fact that Geno is a Star.
In general, every new character we've seen from DLC is a base character with a mix of 2-6 others + new stuff that can't be reused: some for animations, others for gameplay properties (which is what put the Ness glitch on my radar).
I’m gonna be honest, I left my post vague cause I couldn’t immediately think of how any of Ness’s weird projectiles could equate to Geno’s moves, but I think you might’ve hit the nail on the head with PK Flash->Geno Beam. It’s admittedly not the closest relation but I feel a lot of the characters have ended up pretty far from their “bases” so it’s entirely possible.
 

Fatmanonice

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Based on what I just read on resetera, people on this thread are getting their hopes waaaay too high for “E3” this year.

Nate Drake and Imran are being super pessimistic. They were saying stuff like “expect the holiday games to be 2021 titles, summer games to be the holiday titles”

Who knows how it will affect Smash, but i’d advise against getting your hopes up for much more than that
Release or announcement? I don't think announcements will be too terribly affected because Nintendo is no stranger to announcing things a year or more in advance if it looks like they're about to head into a dry spell.
 

StarLight42

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Release or announcement? I don't think announcements will be too terribly affected because Nintendo is no stranger to announcing things a year or more in advance if it looks like they're about to head into a dry spell.
I'll just post what they said

nate1.PNG

nate2.PNG

nate3.PNG


imran1.PNG

imran2.PNG


I would assume they just mean releases, but it seems like they don't really know when things would be announced, either. I can't think of any good examples of Nintendo announcing stuff really early aside from Metroid and BOTW2. Mario Maker was announced like 3 months before it came out and Ring Fit was announced crazy late from what I hear. They're more known for not announcing stuff early than announcing stuff early.

I wouldn't worry in terms of Smash, but otherwise I think it's gonna be a dry year.
 

Polarthief

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Sounds like they could still be announced, just when you’d expect them to release will actually be later on due to the crown virus.
I'm praying this to be the case.

Competitors aren’t going to be “jumping further ahead”. The virus affects everyone.
I'm referring to the hardware. Nintendo has always been playing catch-up, and while I love the Switch and using my PC for games I don't think will run great on it, I do wish it was a bit beefier. I can't actually imagine people playing stuff like Witcher 3 on it, and even first party Nintendo games will either chug along, like BOTW does in some scenarios, or games are FPS-locked to 30; both those things are bad.

and A Link to The Past remake coming to Switch
Oh my god if that happens and we could get ALTTPR(emake)R... I do hope if that's actually legit, it's not in the LA remake style though. It was cute and good for LA, but it's not how I'd want ALTTP to look.

You're confusing it with the Series X. Which will have no exclusive first party games on it for awhile.
How is that any different from the X360 and XBone (besides Halo)? ;)

Series X is still a worse name than Wii U and I will stand by that
Agreed. Xbox One was also a terribly crap name, especially when IT'S YOUR *THIRD* CONSOLE!

I would assume they just mean releases, but it seems like they don't really know when things would be announced, either. I can't think of any good examples of Nintendo announcing stuff really early aside from Metroid and BOTW2. Mario Maker was announced like 3 months before it came out and Ring Fit was announced crazy late from what I hear. They're more known for not announcing stuff early than announcing stuff early.

I wouldn't worry in terms of Smash, but otherwise I think it's gonna be a dry year.
Even if the releases are dry, I can sustain myself on reveals/announcements, and I just hope they don't have a very shallow direct in June. It's the wait for the announcements that kill me more than the waiting for actual releases themselves.

That said though, you can't just not have a holiday title, can you?
 
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Let Geno Smash

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It adds more to the pile that Nintendo really is going to go hard and heavy on Mario stuff in the coming months. It's also the third of the three Wii U ports that I've been hearing forever that were very likely to happen this year so it supplements the guys I heard it from.
That also goes with the new SMM2 Update releasing in 2 days
 

GodzillaGuy64

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Let Geno Smash

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The *final* update. Rip "Extra Game StyleS", Nintendo really jebaited everyone with that one. Oh well.
Sad that this is the last major update, but this is a pretty substantial one.
So is the last SMM 2 Update. I will say it : BRUH
 

Polarthief

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So is the last SMM 2 Update. I will say it : BRUH
Yeah, it's an absolute bruh moment right now. I still wanna know why they jebaited everyone with the Style*S* thing, let alone just let the game die off slowly.

Not trying to kill hype for people excited over the world maker, something that IMO should have been in since release day, but like, come on Nintendo.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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What they could've also done is give another world type to use. I get that having all amiibo again is a licensing nightmare, and the new masks are a decent re-imagining of that arguably.

But it's kind of underwhelming regardless. Unfortunately, they did a bit too much with the first game, so the second game living up to it was very difficult regardless. When the most popular feature is gone, and your biggest thing at the time was "slopes"(while a lot of the other changes would've been neat in the first game, slopes were the core missing thing), well... it didn't help. The other features are still cool, obviously, but yeah.

If it was the first game, it'd be a lot more notable.
 

MisterMike

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Sad that this is the last major update, but this is a pretty substantial one.
Oh boy, I can't wait to make Super Johnson World!
 

StarLight42

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It's a very cool update in my opinion, what a welcome surprise

A bit upsetting there's no new game style, and Super Mario World doesn't get it's own unique koopaling sprites, but eh, i'll live
 

Malo Mart

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Heyo! I'm still here playing SMRPG and trying to keep my head up in the face of the troubles I'm having at the moment. I just got past the Booster/Marrymore part of the story yesterday and I'm going to Star Hill next. Which yeah, means that I just got Bowser and Peach in my party, but I'll still try to keep my dream team of Mario/Mallow/Geno as much as I can, Mallow's inferiority to Peach be damned.

Anyway, I saw that some of you were sharing concepts for Spirits and Mii Costumes to come with Geno a couple pages ago, so for a little fun I figured I'd spitball some idea I have in mind as well:

Spirits:

-Croco (Novice, purple :ultkrool:)
-Belome (Advanced, default :ultkingdedede:)
-Boshi (Novice, purple :ultyoshi:)
-Punchinello (Novice, purple :ulttoonlink:)
-Booster (Advanced, red overalls :ultwario:)
-Jonathan "Johnny" Jones (Ace, default :ultgreninja:)
-Smithy Gang (Ace, red :ultmetaknight: (Mack), green :ultpit: (Bowyer), default :ultroy: (Yaridovich))
-Valentina and Dodo (Ace, pink :ultpalutena: and black :ultfalco:)
-Axem Rangers (Advanced, default, red, yellow, green and black/dark purple :ultkirby:s)
-Smithy (Ace, giant grey :ultkingdedede:; can be enhanced into Smithy (Second Form))
-Culex (Legend, giant purple :ultdarkpit:)


I could polish up and go over more detail on the Spirits another time, but now time for:

Mii Costumes:

-Mallow (CACOMALLOW IS REAL CACOCALLOW IS REAL CACOMALLOW IS REAL)
-Smithy
-Chocobo
-Black Mage
-Crono
-GEX

Actually, **** it, this whole post was just a front for me to spread Gex propaganda! IT'S TAIL TIME, BABYYYYYYY!!!
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link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
Sad that this is the last major update, but this is a pretty substantial one.
Annnnd now I can no longer put off buying smm2. This just hooked me.
 
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