Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Plank08]

Ok guys, so I compiled every bit of evidence pointing to geno, which is surprisingly a lot, and ordered them in 3 sections that we can use for reference.

The BIG stuff:

The Cacomallow

The Music Copyright Strikes

The Mii List

The Missing Costume

Things that are very interesting:

Geno in the leaks and speculation scene

Sakurai’s want for Geno

Nintendo was surprised by Banjo hype

“SuperMarioRPG is being heavily talked about here in nintendo”

Sakurai’s use of the Smash Ballot

The Sm4sh DLC Mii Costumes

Ultimate has added tons of fan favorites

Arms meaning spirits dont deconfirm?

Things that add up:

The Mii splash screen

The Nintendo Tweet

The Gun Figure

Geno’s overall popularity

Geno did CRAZY Well in a old Brawl Ballot

An abundance of SuperMarioRPG references

 

[Polarthief]

Geno in the leaks and speculation scene

He's only been in fake leaks so far. Of course, some of the ones about June could be legitimate, but while CacoMallow and Mii Costume Leaker are both heavily hinting that Geno's in (with Mallow/Mallow & Smithy [respectively] costumes being added), neither have outright said it. We have no legitimate leaks claiming Geno is in; it's all been dancing around it (like CM/MCL) or anon 4chan garbage that you can't trust.

As for the speculation half... yeah we're speculating. I don't know what that means for his chances though (not that I think his chances are low, far from it, I think he's as close to a lock as a character can get).

Nintendo was surprised by Banjo hype

“SuperMarioRPG is being heavily talked about here in nintendo”

Do you have sources for these? I have compiled stuff myself (in my signature) that also has sources and an explanation, so I'd love to add these to that list as well, but can't w/o a source (will give credit, of course).

FTR: I've never heard either of these things, so I'd legitimately like to see them myself, let alone have sources for the compilation post I keep updated when I hear new things.

Edit: Found the one for Banjo; legit surprised by this. Would still like the source for SMRPG being "heavily talked about" in Nintendo.
PS: I don't think BK's reaction being a surprise really matters either way though. FP2 was likely finalized (in terms of who is gonna be on it) by June/July; I don't think a relatively dead character getting a surprisingly overwhelming reaction would suddenly make Geno, another dead character, a better pick.

Sakurai’s use of the Smash Ballot

This doesn't mean too much since we don't actually know how well Geno did on the ballot. As much as I think he did better than the Belmonts, and have outright claimed that, I don't have evidence to back up my claim. If he did do well though, he will be pushed for even harder by Sakurai, maybe even Nintendo.

The Nintendo Tweet

Which one? The SMRPG 22nd anniversary from 3 years ago?

The Gun Figure

The what?

 

[Plank08]

He's only been in fake leaks so far. Of course, some of the ones about June could be legitimate, but while CacoMallow and Mii Costume Leaker are both heavily hinting that Geno's in (with Mallow/Mallow & Smithy [respectively] costumes being added), neither have outright said it. We have no legitimate leaks claiming Geno is in; it's all been dancing around it (like CM/MCL) or anon 4chan garbage that you can't trust.

As for the speculation half... yeah we're speculating. I don't know what that means for his chances though (not that I think his chances are low, far from it, I think he's as close to a lock as a character can get).



Do you have sources for these? I have compiled stuff myself (in my signature) that also has sources and an explanation, so I'd love to add these to that list as well, but can't w/o a source (will give credit, of course).

FTR: I've never heard either of these things, so I'd legitimately like to see them myself, let alone have sources for the compilation post I keep updated when I hear new things.



This doesn't mean too much since we don't actually know how well Geno did on the ballot. As much as I think he did better than the Belmonts, and have outright claimed that, I don't have evidence to back up my claim. If he did do well though, he will be pushed for even harder by Sakurai, maybe even Nintendo.



Which one? The SMRPG 22nd anniversary from 3 years ago?



The what?

1. I was referring to how insiders continue to speculate, its atleast something.

2. Yeah,

And for the other one I dont have an exact source I can link you but I can explain it in more detail: in 8/6/2015, a senior artist at nintendo created a Geno Gif, with a caption that says “Super Mario RPG has been a topic lately at the studio so he felt right to draw ” he later took this post down.

3. This was mostly just a small piece of evidence since Geno was most likely prominent in the ballot, and would be in sakurai's radar.

4. Yeah that.

5. I probably shouldn’t have included this lol, that one gun figure that sakurai brought for reference in development for ultimate, could possibly link to Geno but this is a reach.

 

[Polarthief]

1. I was referring to how insiders continue to speculate, its atleast something.

Gotcha, though insiders speculating doesn't necessarily mean much unless they hear things, y'know?

And for the other one I dont have an exact source I can link you but I can explain it in more detail: in 8/6/2015, a senior artist at nintendo created a Geno Gif, with a caption that says “Super Mario RPG has been a topic lately at the studio so he felt right to draw ” he later took this post down.

That's interesting, but doesn't say anything about "heavily" being talked about and what was said 5 years ago is hardly relevant now.

3. This was mostly just a small piece of evidence since Geno was most likely prominent in the ballot, and would be in sakurai's radar.

But unfortunately we don't truly know how well he did on the ballot. There is no denying his popularity, as evidenced by the fact that we got a Mii Splash Screen only for Geno, and the costume itself, which Sakurai said he made to not disappoint his fans, but sometimes popularity isn't enough. It sure wasn't for Waluigi.

4. Yeah that.

Which was fine and all but FP2 wasn't decided back in 2018, so that's not evidence of much unfortunately. Now if they retweet it or make a comment about it in May, I'm gonna flip over that.

5. I probably shouldn’t have included this lol, that one gun figure that sakurai brought for reference in development for ultimate, could possibly link to Geno but this is a reach.

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Do you have a picture or something? If it's just a gun, that could have been for Joker. If it actually looks like Geno's look-not-at-all-a-gun gun, then that could point to something.

 

[Plank08]

Y’know, maybe it was meant for joker.

 

[OffBi]

I suppose that you guys are talking about this post

 

[Loliko YnT]

I'd like if we got music from all of the RPG Mario games if Geno gets in, including the new paper Mario if thats a thing. Personally, I'd like to see hello happy kingdom from Super Mario RPG, the battle theme from the first Mario & Luigi, and Princess Shroob's boss theme from Mario & Luigi: Partners in TIme

Y’know, maybe it was meant for joker.

God , thank you for pointing this track out , a full blown out orchestral cover by Nintendo would be beautiful. But yeah , while Mario and Luigi got some stuff in the music department , PM got barely anything , like , 3 tracks.

---

This gun was most likely used either for , or for this :

And here's the source for the gun thingie (wich is a vifam figure) https://nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-bought-a-vifam-figure-as-a-reference-for-his-work/

 

[MattX20]

Somewhere deep down I think we all know that's not true. Ice climbers should have been the final nail in that coffin, let alone pit, K Rool, Banjo, and many others. They're never going to stop that argument. It will just be "well yeah Geno got in but he was ridiculously popular. This character I don't want is irrelevant and not literally the most popular character in speculation so it's deconfirmed".

Yeah, there will be people who will act that way

 

[Loliko YnT]

Yeah, there will be people who will act that way

Funny thing , i already saw people said "Well yes , even if it's Spring Man , there was no ARMS music in the base game , so anyone with music in the base game is impossible."... And it's honestly the kind of stuff that make me wanna bash my head against the wall.

Ever since Joker was added , everyone was like "Anyone can get in Smash" but also "Fan-rules !".

It's usually best to ignore people like these , and focus on the positive.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

I suppose that you guys are talking about this post
View attachment 269700

Really? I think that was made by a Operation Starfall Supporter

 

[Deleted member]

Heh, you remember Starling? That was a wild ride for smash speculation xD

Curious, what was the whole Starling thing?

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

Really? I think that was made by a Operation Starfall Supporter

The art does give that impression but it actually is from someone at Nintendo. https://twitter.com/lazuliro?lang=en The person is a senior artist at Nintendo. It might not mean anything at all, but it is interesting nonetheless.

 

[MattX20]

Yeah, that art's been around for a while.

 

[Vector Victor]

Curious, what was the whole Starling thing?

Its a touchy subject and people would rather not discuss it. It boiled down to being a red herring and nothing came of it.

 

[Firox]

The thing that sets Geno apart currently is the amount of evidence pointed towards him right now.

THIS. People can circlejerk all they want, but at the end of the day, its the EVIDENCE that sets Geno apart. Not necessarily relevance. Not necessarily competitive intent. Not even popularity. EVIDENCE. And we've been over this ad nauseum (like, every single time a new naysayer struts in here), but you've got numerous credible/semi-credible leaks, music takedowns, lack of a pre-existing mii costume, etc. that points to Geno. Sorry, peeps, but no matter how you want to slice it, Geno has more evidence in his favor than literally any other character in speculation right now (which is honestly pretty awesome after all this time). That said, does that mean Geno's a lock? Heck no. There's still a minute chance that Nintendo/SE straight up gives him the bone and either "Mii's" him or just drops him entirely, however picks like Ridley, Krool and B-K suggest that Nintendo/Sakurai are abundantly aware of what the people want/have wanted and are willing to deliver more than once. That doesn't mean that Geno is the only fan-demanded character out there, nor is he the only one deserving to get in, but the clues are pointing more toward him than anyone else.

 

[Deleted member]

Curious, what was the whole Starling thing?

An insider who liked to post hints at upcoming games/game content by using seemingly unrelated pictures posted a picture of a mystery bird, and the picture was made public before its time. The speculation community's top bird watchers successfully identified the bird pictured as a starling and people went all over the place with the thing, speculation wise. Anyone from Geno to Ryu Hayabusa.

More than likely, it was too early of a supposition and the guy who originally supplied the photo was just mistaken, or it was a hint at Terry which is very often brushed off. Mysteriously, any mention of this ****ing bird will raise the dead, who will tell you "it meant nothing, drop it" before sinking back into the crypt, it's actually quite comical.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Curious, what was the whole Starling thing?

EDIT: the post above me did a far better job explaining this than I did, how did I miss that? I'm tired lol.

 

[MattX20]

So, how many pages do you guys think we'll be at by the time the June Direct airs?

 

[Deleted member]

An insider who liked to post hints at upcoming games/game content by using seemingly unrelated pictures posted a picture of a mystery bird, and the picture was made public before its time. The speculation community's top bird watchers successfully identified the bird pictured as a starling and people went all over the place with the thing, speculation wise. Anyone from Geno to Ryu Hayabusa.

More than likely, it was too early of a supposition and the guy who originally supplied the photo was just mistaken, or it was a hint at Terry which is very often brushed off. Mysteriously, any mention of this ****ing bird will raise the dead, who will tell you "it meant nothing, drop it" before sinking back into the crypt, it's actually quite comical.

So it wasn’t even known to be Smash related? Who brought it up to the thread?

 

[Deleted member]

So it wasn’t even known to be Smash related? Who brought it up to the thread?

My understanding is that it was known to be Nintendo related, and not Pokemon. It may have been outright stated to be Smash related, but I'm not super clear on the facts, there. The important take away is that it hit the streets before it was supposed to - I think there's a very small possibility that it was just a "whoops, it meant nothing!" mistake, and the attempts to sweep it under the rug are extremely suspect. The source of the image is or was a legitimate insider and there's a big chance in my mind that he let something go well before it should have been let go, to the point that it getting out, even as cryptic as that, would implicate him almost exclusively, so the attempts to throw the starling in the memory hole are more accurately an attempt to literally save someone's job.

At that point, not sure why you wouldn't lie about it being a hint at Terry and call it done.

My opinion on it is that it's a hell of a mystery that we'll never know the answer to, and I guess that's fine.

 

[Deleted member]

My understanding is that it was known to be Nintendo related, and not Pokemon. It may have been outright stated to be Smash related, but I'm not super clear on the facts, there. The important take away is that it hit the streets before it was supposed to - I think there's a very small possibility that it was just a "whoops, it meant nothing!" mistake, and the attempts to sweep it under the rug are extremely suspect. The source of the image is or was a legitimate insider and there's a big chance in my mind that he let something go well before it should have been let go, to the point that it getting out, even as cryptic as that, would implicate him almost exclusively, so the attempts to throw the starling in the memory hole are more accurately an attempt to literally save someone's job.

At that point, not sure why you wouldn't lie about it being a hint at Terry and call it done.

My opinion on it is that it's a hell of a mystery that we'll never know the answer to, and I guess that's fine.

Ah I see thanks

 

[Let Geno Smash]

So, how many pages do you guys think we'll be at by the time the June Direct airs?

2750

 

[Vector Victor]

So my excitement/greediness for Smash got the better of me when I was thinking about what they would reveal at E3 and what I would like to see.

I started with:
-ARMs
-Geno at 77.

Then after thinking about it more and more, my wishlist ended up with:
-ARMs
-Geno at 77
-Geno costume
-12 character Echo Pass
-Each Echo comes with 2 songs
-Dixie and Boshi echoes with Geno
-Mallow as a bonus DLC
-English Voice Cloud
-SMRPG Remake
-Mother 3



.......I may have over hyped myself.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

So my excitement/greediness for Smash got the better of me when I was thinking about what they would reveal at E3 and what I would like to see.

I started with:
-ARMs
-Geno at 77.

Then after thinking about it more and more, my wishlist ended up with:
-ARMs
-Geno at 77
-Geno costume
-12 character Echo Pass
-Each Echo comes with 2 songs
-Dixie and Boshi echoes with Geno
-Mallow as a bonus DLC
-English Voice Cloud
-SMRPG Remake
-Mother 3



.......I may have over hyped myself.

Bro, you are crazy. Over that i only can see Geno playable and The geno mii. One refering the dool and the other being the dool with ♡ the note !?

 

[Polarthief]

THIS. People can circlejerk all they want, but at the end of the day, its the EVIDENCE that sets Geno apart. Not necessarily relevance. Not necessarily competitive intent. Not even popularity. EVIDENCE. And we've been over this ad nauseum (like, every single time a new naysayer struts in here), but you've got numerous credible/semi-credible leaks, music takedowns, lack of a pre-existing mii costume, etc. that points to Geno. Sorry, peeps, but no matter how you want to slice it, Geno has more evidence in his favor than literally any other character in speculation right now (which is honestly pretty awesome after all this time). That said, does that mean Geno's a lock? Heck no. There's still a minute chance that Nintendo/SE straight up gives him the bone and either "Mii's" him or just drops him entirely, however picks like Ridley, Krool and B-K suggest that Nintendo/Sakurai are abundantly aware of what the people want/have wanted and are willing to deliver more than once. That doesn't mean that Geno is the only fan-demanded character out there, nor is he the only one deserving to get in, but the clues are pointing more toward him than anyone else.

Certainly much more than other SE characters that are way more well-known:
- More FF7: The only evidence is Square loves to circlejerk FF7, and FF7R has recently come out. No actual evidence though; good luck bringing more music, too. Uematsu's a total diva.
- Other FF characters: No evidence, and why would Square pick other FFs over more FF7?
- Sora: Didn't Nintendo approach Disney? Outside of that, no evidence, plus the massive wall that is Disney themselves. If Disney's not a firewall, Sora's chances shoot way up, considering how he's definitely the GLOBAL frontrunner for "most wanted character". That said though, does he take an SE slot or doesn't he? We have no idea.
- Lara Croft: No evidence. Does have her place in history, but she's not nearly as popular; she's just more well-known because polygonal boobage. Honestly, Metroid Samus Aran should have been the main female in gaming. She deserves it a lot more, especially when she wasn't sexualized (until much later with ZSS [and you could argue that wasn't really sexualized]).
- 2B: There's some decent, albeit light, circumstantial evidence (compared to Geno's mountain), but you also have the whole "if Mai couldn't even be shown as a cameo" problem.

Who else is left really, or rather who am I not thinking of? Marina Lightyears is another of those "has a cult-following/lesser-known picks", but she's got way less of a kit (Boost, Dash, Shake (???), and Throw) and is way less known (and popular/wanted) than Geno. Mischief Makers was also hardly a success compared to SMRPG, and I say this as someone who absolutely loved MM back when I bought it during the N64 era.

 

[YsDisciple]

Hmm, E3 2020/June Direct predictions? I'll give it a shot. What I'd like to see in Nintendo's June Direct would be:

- CP 6 official reveal (FINALLY)
- Super Mario All-Stars 2 (yes, gimme dat Super Mario 64 + Super Mario Sunshine + Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 combo!)
- Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars FINALLY making it into the NSO SNES Library (along with some other good SNES games like, DKC, Chrono Trigger, FF VI, etc.)
- CP 7 official reveal (none of that "oh, it's from this franchise but can't tell WHO exactly it is at the moment" nonsense) would be down if it's either Geno or Crash.
- Super Mario RPG remake (?) OR a good Paper Mario RPG game (pls).
- Mario Kart 9 reveal (?)
- First footage of Metroid Prime 4 (hopefully...)
- Metroid Prime Trilogy
- New F-ZERO (PLS NINTENDO PLS!!! F-ZERO GX/AX WAS SO SIIIIIIIICK!!!!)
- First footage of Bayonetta 3
- Official release date for DOOM Eternal on the Switch
- CP 8 official reveal = Doom Slayer (or Crash if Geno is CP 7).

 

[Polarthief]

- CP 6 official reveal (FINALLY)
- Super Mario All-Stars 2 (yes, gimme dat Super Mario 64 + Super Mario Sunshine + Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 combo!)
- Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars FINALLY making it into the NSO SNES Library (along with some other good SNES games like, DKC, Chrono Trigger, FF VI, etc.)
- CP 7 official reveal (none of that "oh, it's from this franchise but can't tell WHO exactly it is at the moment" nonsense) would be down if it's either Geno or Crash.
- Super Mario RPG remake (?) OR a good Paper Mario RPG game (pls).

Assuming rumors are true, all of this is pretty on-point, except that last one. I really don't see an SMRPG remake in our future, but I do see a good PM3. Nintendo should be fully aware of how not okay SS/CS were by now, and SPM while a decent game (that I personally think people overrate), is not what we want with Paper Mario. Hell I'd almost be fine with getting remasters of PM64/TTYD, or hell just give me ports at this point.

- Mario Kart 9 reveal (?)

Idk why they don't just update 8 instead. Do we really need MK9? Give a big, meaty, game-changing patch to 8 and call it a day.
... oh right, Nintendo prefers their games to rot instead (*looks over at Super Mario Party and Super Mario Maker 2*).

- First footage of Metroid Prime 4 (hopefully...)

Yeah no, this isn't happening sadly. MP4 is in development hell right now. Unless they have a trailer to show off, you won't see it this year methinks.

- Metroid Prime Trilogy

This however could be a possibility. Kinda surprised it hasn't been a thing yet.

- New F-ZERO (PLS NINTENDO PLS!!! F-ZERO GX/AX WAS SO SIIIIIIIICK!!!!)

- First footage of Bayonetta 3

Possibly, probably.

- Official release date for DOOM Eternal on the Switch

Esp if DG is a Smash character, this should happen. Even if he's not, it still should be. Isabelle deserves her stress relief outside of her whiskey Vacation Juice™.

- CP 8 official reveal = Doom Slayer (or Crash if Geno is CP 7).

Hopefully.

 

[Geno Boost]

my fighters pass 2 wishlist includes geno, a man can dream:

Good taste I do want a club penguin rep to represent Disney over Sora

 

[SSGuy]

Good taste I do want a club penguin rep to represent Disney over Sora

How dare you suggest someone other than a beloved, classic Disney hero.

Scrooge McDuck deserves better than that. Without a doubt the only legitimate Disney rep. (Although Club Penguin would be mad hype as well)


Regarding Geno, be careful with how many fake leaks we see moving forward. We might get some Grinch level leaks trying to get our hopes up. We have semi favorable evidence that points to Geno's inclusion (whether it is a Mii Costume or a fighter) to fall back on so just be sure to take everything moving forward with a grain of salt.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

my fighters pass 2 wishlist includes geno, a man can dream:

You put Club Penguin on your Fighters Pass

Respect

 

[Geno Boost]

How dare you suggest someone other than a beloved, classic Disney hero.

Scrooge McDuck deserves better than that. Without a doubt the only legitimate Disney rep. (Although Club Penguin would be mad hype as well)


Regarding Geno, be careful with how many fake leaks we see moving forward. We might get some Grinch level leaks trying to get our hopes up. We have semi favorable evidence that points to Geno's inclusion (whether it is a Mii Costume or a fighter) to fall back on so just be sure to take everything moving forward with a grain of salt.

club penguin had pretty much more impact in gaming history than kingdom hearts and you shouldnt be surprised that way more people have played club penguin (more than 200 million users) and recognise it plus we dont have MMO rep in smash yet

 

[Deleted member]

Grinch level leaks.

In the face of Cacomallow, it's gonna take a lot more than what the Grinch was packing to convince anyone.

 

[SSGuy]

club penguin had pretty much more impact in gaming history than kingdom hearts and you shouldnt be surprised that way more people have played club penguin (more than 200 million users) and recognise it plus we dont have MMO rep in smash yet

Club Penguin over WoW would be so godlike. But hey, so long as they are fun to play. Waddle on as they say.

Gotta stick with my guns. Scrooge McDuck means Brawler costume for LaunchPad McQuack. And we know that dude has gaming history as the greatest side kick of all time!

 

[Powerman293]

In the face of Cacomallow, it's gonna take a lot more than what the Grinch was packing to convince anyone.

I have a video coming out in two weeks talking about the ideal fake leak to surpass the Grinch Leak. But it'll be incredibly hard to top.

 

[StarLight42]

edit: nvm, probably shouldnt waste any attention on this

 

[Vector Victor]

If Geno comes but with only 2 songs and a bare minimum spirit board, I'm going to be pissed at Square for dragging their feet, acting like they are only participating out of protest,, AGAIN. Also, all that work to not have Cloud have his English VA, then they recast him in the remake anyway. No spirits, can't even give him his original artwork render as a fighter spirit, 2 songs. Dragon Quest only made out slightly better.

I fear Square will act like the Load with Geno. At least he'll be playable, but they might offer the least involvement that they can.

 

[SSGuy]

If Geno comes but with only 2 songs and a bare minimum spirit board, I'm going to be pissed at Square for dragging their feet, acting like they are only participating out of protest,, AGAIN. Also, all that work to not have Cloud have his English VA, then they recast him in the remake anyway. No spirits, can't even give him his original artwork render as a fighter spirit, 2 songs. Dragon Quest only made out slightly better.

I fear Square will act like the Load with Geno. At least he'll be playable, but they might offer the least involvement that they can.

Square bending the knee and making Geno a fighter is winning the war though. They can piss and moan all they want but regardless of how much content they gatekeep, we would have still saved out guy as a result.

 

[Powerman293]

If Geno comes but with only 2 songs and a bare minimum spirit board, I'm going to be pissed at Square for dragging their feet, acting like they are only participating out of protest,, AGAIN. Also, all that work to not have Cloud have his English VA, then they recast him in the remake anyway. No spirits, can't even give him his original artwork render as a fighter spirit, 2 songs. Dragon Quest only made out slightly better.

I fear Square will act like the Load with Geno. At least he'll be playable, but they might offer the least involvement that they can.

I mean, it'll suck, but given even those harsh restrictions, I think there's just enough to properly represent SMRPG.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, all that work to not have Cloud have his English VA, then they recast him in the remake anyway.

No English VA was Nintendo's choice, not SE's. Nintendo almost never use unionised VAs, and if they do they often go uncredited.

 

[Powerman293]

No English VA was Nintendo's choice, not SE's. Nintendo almost never use unionised VAs, and if they do they often go uncredited.

Is the new Cloud VA union? I just hope they patch in Cloud's voice in English in a random patch out of nowhere lol.