Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

3 new online modes, 1 new "Games & More" mode, and a new mode in Smash.

My guess is online version of SmashDown, Squad Strike, along with online Home-Run Contest. And speaking of which obviously, the Games & More mode is HRC as well. The new Smash mode is interesting but it could always be Coin battle returning. Not gonna lie but that was my guilty pleasure from Melee through Smash 4.

Really hoping the datamine isn't the end of the new modes. I'm really hoping Boss Battles returns with Gruntilda, Porky, & Mega Rayquaza added in. Would be a huge wasted opportunity to not do that.

Not to mention, no Break the Targets? That would be so freaking lame, man.

 

[UberMadman]

Not to mention, no Break the Targets? That would be so freaking lame, man.

I’m inclined to think we’ll never get Melee-style Break The Targets again because it’s too much work to craft those kinds of stages for nearly 80 characters.

 

[MondoMega]

Really hoping the datamine isn't the end of the new modes. I'm really hoping Boss Battles returns with Gruntilda, Porky, & Mega Rayquaza added in. Would be a huge wasted opportunity to not do that.

Oh; there could definitely be more than those five modes. VR skipped all of the existing gaps and was added on the end of the list, so they can do it again.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm interested in that scrapped Brawl mode called Slipspace.

A casual, never-ending match sounds very fun to me, as that also means I can leave whenever I want instead of being forced to spectate when I die.

And if it's never-ending, and it lets others join at anytime, maybe it could be a Smash Royale mode with its own, huge stage

 

[Ovaltine]

I’m inclined to think we’ll never get Melee-style Break The Targets again because it’s too much work to craft those kinds of stages for nearly 80 characters.

Oh, I wasn't even thinking Melee-style. That'd be impossible. I was more thinking of a Break the Targets where there are maybe 10-15 variants spread across the roster (so, say, eight characters use one variant, another eight use a different one, etc). It adds variety and spice without having to make a bunch of unique target stages for almost 80 characters.

 

[MisterMike]

I’m inclined to think we’ll never get Melee-style Break The Targets again because it’s too much work to craft those kinds of stages for nearly 80 characters.

I'm hoping they'll incorporate it into the stage builder and let us make our own target levels to share online with others. Hell, they could even make their own official target tests for all 80+ characters using the stage builder to save on resources.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

I just named my character in the DQXIS demo ♡♪!?

 

[UberMadman]

I just named my character in the DQXIS demo ♡♪!?

That seems kind of hard to pronounce. Is there anything else we could call them instead?

 

[link2702]

Break the targets isn’t coming back in ultimate for sure, but I don’t think the next smash is gonna have 80+ characters, so we could definitely see it returning then.

 

[Deleted member]

That seems kind of hard to pronounce. Is there anything else we could call then instead?

Hmm... Jino maybe? That might work..

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I feel like the best way to reintroduce Break the Targets is with a Stage Builder-esque creator. You can create any kind of layout, using any kind of items, maybe even select a character you need to play as and set a time limit. You can then share it with friends and online to play the level and try to figure out how to break all the Targets.

Has anyone played Bloons Tower Defense 6 and their Daily Challenges? That's kind of the mindset I'm using, and with how flexible Smash is, I can see it having a lot of longevity.

 

[Ura]

Not to mention, no Break the Targets? That would be so freaking lame, man.

Loved that mode back in the day but I don't think it would work with the size of the roster now. And the Brawl/Smash 4 versions don't really seem worth bringing back IMO.

Oh; there could definitely be more than those five modes. VR skipped all of the existing gaps and was added on the end of the list, so they can do it again.

I really hope so lol. If they added Boss Battles back that's all I could ask for.

...well that and a Melee-styled Adventure mode but that's never happening.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

18 titles is a lot of titles.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

18 titles is a lot of titles.

There’s, just to be clear, zero chance any title listed in this manner is an Amiibo right...?

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

There’s, just to be clear, zero chance any title listed in this manner is an Amiibo right...?

Maybe three of them are amiibo. I don't know. If only someone had the price tags on all that stuff, we could deduct it easy. Didn't somebody say most of them were $59.99?

 

[GenoToto]

I feel like the best way to reintroduce Break the Targets is with a Stage Builder-esque creator. You can create any kind of layout, using any kind of items, maybe even select a character you need to play as and set a time limit. You can then share it with friends and online to play the level and try to figure out how to break all the Targets.

Has anyone played Bloons Tower Defense 6 and their Daily Challenges? That's kind of the mindset I'm using, and with how flexible Smash is, I can see it having a lot of longevity.

A customizable Break the Targets stage builder seems like the EXACT kind of thing I'd want to spend a ton of hours on. I went all-in on Mario Maker and the sequel, the ability to build things to share with other people is right up my alley, and I'm sad because I know we won't get anything like that, hahah.

Unrelated - Avatar Success, now I'm like the other cool kids.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Do you guys REALLY want to know when my opinion on this changed? It was at EVO. Everyone said to go sleep it off and come back refreshed, and while most of us moved on and felt chipper, I kept coming back every day feeling less and less sure. Nintendo did it again: they were Nintendo. The company that does what they think is best and not always what is common sense or expected. That same Nintendo that has less-than-spectacular finales for Smash in terms of reveals. That same Nintendo that seems to not really listen to hardcore fans of series that have been distant for years. And that was when I realized that it's very likely there will be no DLC after this pass, since that would be a 'that same Nintendo' thing to do. That's when I realized that it's highly likely that Geno would be nothing more than a Spirit in Ultimate, because that would be a 'that same Nintendo' thing to do.

I still love Geno. I still want Geno. I'll still push Operation Starfall and those within it to keep spreading the word about our blue puppet boi. I just don't think he is nigh. That Starling image leak really didn't have anything to do with this change, but rather how I started looking at it more realistically. It suddenly felt like I had the right idea the whole time, only to realize I was in lala land and that the reality of the situation was just as bland and drab as reality often is in most cases.

Spoiler: Challenging the Notion of "The Same Old Nintendo"

You may be attempting to channel me, but I'm (surprise, surprise) going to disagree with you when it comes to this "Nintendo that seems to not really listen to hardcore fans" and say they haven't been "the same old Nintendo" for a while. Honestly, even as much as they bungled the Wii U generation and completely misplayed their hand, they've been branching out in so many meaningful ways and doing an overall much better job of communicating and working towards pleasing fans. Stuff like funding Bayonetta 2, making a major new third person shooter IP in Splatoon, giving customers the chance to make their own Mario levels through Super Mario Maker, etc. were all major steps towards a new Nintendo in the Wii U era.

And in the Switch era? Holy ****, this doesn't even feel like the Nintendo I once saw completely bomb E3 2008 and 2012 growing up with (that's the "classic Nintendo blunder" I think of for reference). Smash Ultimate is a love letter to fans crafted around almost every bit of their feedback, Nintendo finally shook up the Zelda formula in a meaningful and great way, they went back to exploration based 3D Mario in Odyssey with lots of changes, and they are finally bringing us the HD versions of so many games we've wanted for ages: Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Pokemon (look, regardless of the quality and issues with the game, people have wanted a console Pokemon for ages and I'm fairly certain Nintendo had to force this to even happen on a console); Sequels to some of the most beloved new games of the Wii U era with Splatoon 2 and Super Mario Maker 2; Mario Party ditching the car in Super Mario Party; Mario Kart 8 Deluxe coming with a proper battle mode... There's just been so much they've done in the positive direction that has been pleasing to a lot of fans (not to mention, just making a console that people really love and that third parties want to make games for, which is HUUUUGE). They're still making a lot of mistakes with online and they're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but Nintendo's in such a better place than I grew up with during the Wii and Wii U eras.

Also, related back to Geno, I noticed that, for as much I dislike the "bird picture" leak and everything with it, I was disappointed when I initially read Fatman's post as a hit against his chances and this specific situation. There is naturally a part of me that very much wants to be completely wrong regarding the image and just see Geno in Smash and I guess enough exposure has softened me on it somewhat and it's easier to accept it might mean something in the context of the next general Nintendo Direct.

As for modes, I hope they're more to my taste than 4.0's update was. I want to get as complete of a Smash as we can out of Ultimate, so I hope we do see those major modes and aspects of past games return. Coin Battle definitely seems like one of those little things that should be in the game for completeness sake and Home Run Contest falls under the same idea. Neither of which were ever my favorite or most played modes, but they feel like Smash staples that should be kept. Boss Battles is my big mode that I really want. I love that they've brought bosses back properly in this game, and if they added a handful more in a mode that you could easily access would be perfect. Make sure to throw in Tabuu again and I'd be ecstatic.

Spoiler: Ultimate Spoilers

Also, Sakurai, please, please, please, make the Master Hand level from the end of World of Light its own little mode that can be selected from Mob Smash as an unlockable reward for finishing World of Light. It's such a cool and awesome surprise, and I hate that it gets stuck behind ALL of World of Light.

Finally, I'm a big supporter of bringing back Break the Targets as a feature of Stage Builder where players can make their own levels with targets that can be specified to certain character challenges. If Sakurai added in a few generic ones like Brawl had, that'd be great just to sort of serve the best of both worlds. More Stage Builder materials would be great too.

I know that's a lot, but if we got all of that, Ultimate would even be more complete and even more amazing than the already breathtaking game we have.

 

[MattX20]

What is this starling everyone is talking about?

Sabi's source on the private Discord posted a picture of a starling on July 14th, and then the source doubled down on it on the 30th. Basically, said source confirmed it wasn't Pokemon or Fire Emblem related, and with Kirby, Mario, Zelda, and AC having titles already released or on the horizon, the pic is speculated to be Smash related. Possibly a case of wordplay that hints to Geno

 

[Firox]

Allow me to channel my inner EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman for a moment.

LOL Wow. You're surprisingly good at that. But seriously, I see what you mean. We don't have anything concrete in favor of Geno, but consider the fact that what little we have is still more than most other speculated characters right now. I honestly think the most probable character besides Geno would be Doomslayer, and that's only because it would make sense for Nintendo to promote Doom on the switch. Other than that, we have ZERO evidence or reasoning for any other character to get in right now. Granted, Geno is still a long shot, but we have at least some reasons to hope. Hopefully, if we're loud enough, we can open Nintendo's eyes to our point of view.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Spoiler: Large image

Sure enough, the model's not only fanmade, but this particular image of it is actually pretty old. I knew I recognized that model from somewhere, but couldn't place it. Now I remember where I saw it.

I knew somehow that was a fake.

 

[Deleted member]

Well for the past hour or two I found a randomizer for Super Mario RPG and I've been playing it. One-One and a half hours in I already encountered some very weird stuff like:

Spoiler

-The game skipping the entirety of the Bowsers Keep introduction

-I maxed out my coins, Frog coins and Flower Points.

-My Party consists of "Zelda" (Geno) "Rosalina" (Peach) and Bowser with Green/Pink, Blue and Black color schemes respectively. No Mallow and Mario is only a character who walks around in the overworld.

-The entire story has been stripped from the game and no dialogue outside of NPC talk has been spoken

-I already murdered Croco in cold blood like seriously, He poofed like any other normal enemy. I straight up killed him in cold blood.

Yeah this mod is very weird to say the least and that's only the beginning. I can't begin to imagine what other wacky stuff is in store for the game.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Well for the past hour or two I found a randomizer for Super Mario RPG and I've been playing it. One-One and a half hours in I already encountered some very weird stuff like:

Spoiler

-The game skipping the entirety of the Bowsers Keep introduction

-I maxed out my coins, Frog coins and Flower Points.

-My Party consists of "Zelda" (Geno) "Rosalina" (Peach) and Bowser with Green/Pink, Blue and Black color schemes respectively. No Mallow and Mario is only a character who walks around in the overworld.

-The entire story has been stripped from the game and no dialogue outside of NPC talk has been spoken

-I already murdered Croco in cold blood like seriously, He poofed like any other normal enemy. I straight up killed him in cold blood.

Yeah this mod is very weird to say the least and that's only the beginning. I can't begin to imagine what other wacky stuff is in store for the game.

What's the name of the mod?

 

[Deleted member]

What's the name of the mod?

I found it on a website I don't really recall how I found it I just stumbled upon it but here's the link to the website:

Spoiler

https://randomizer.smrpgspeedruns.com/

I pretty much just looked up "Super Mario RPG randomizer" and this was one of the first things to pop up.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

PushDustin seems to think that we will get a Nintendo Direct before the Tokyo Game Show which happens on September 12th and ends on the 15th. It does make sense if Banjo & Kazooie are being released on the 24th of September, then again they could very well make a direct on the 24th in general.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Whatever that Starling picture means and the other 5 pictures that NoA employee is referring to, we'll probably get our answers on September.

 

[Icewolff92]

Well for the past hour or two I found a randomizer for Super Mario RPG and I've been playing it. One-One and a half hours in I already encountered some very weird stuff like:

Spoiler

-The game skipping the entirety of the Bowsers Keep introduction

-I maxed out my coins, Frog coins and Flower Points.

-My Party consists of "Zelda" (Geno) "Rosalina" (Peach) and Bowser with Green/Pink, Blue and Black color schemes respectively. No Mallow and Mario is only a character who walks around in the overworld.

-The entire story has been stripped from the game and no dialogue outside of NPC talk has been spoken

-I already murdered Croco in cold blood like seriously, He poofed like any other normal enemy. I straight up killed him in cold blood.

Yeah this mod is very weird to say the least and that's only the beginning. I can't begin to imagine what other wacky stuff is in store for the game.

As someone that have played a lot of randomizers (while also being an avid viewer of Proton Jon and NCS) this sounds like a randomizer in a nutshell

 

[riggsbass]

I know we're feeling down about our star boy, dismissing the reasons we felt confident, reading too much into what a bunch of users have been saying, but... this is ALWAYS pure speculation. That’s what keeps it fun, in my opinion. Just because people say they "have a source" doesn't necessarily mean they do, and vice versa. The key is to take it all for what it is, and enjoy it. I love seeing Papagenos speculate because, even if he’s wrong, it’s still exciting to theorize and consider. This sort of thing is a hobby, not a lifestyle. Don’t let it ruin you or your attitude if it’s not true.


Maybe it's because I'm a bit older than the average member here (I'm 27, not that much older I guess) but I've been pretty consistent in my belief that there's a good chance still. That recent Geno leak may not be legit (do we even know who's actually responsible for that model?) but I don't think dismissing certain things for weird points you decide to make up are reason enough. The lines below his eyes being closer than you remember to his nose/mouth don’t seem convincing enough to dispel it. I like to keep my speculative lens open wide, but I do think we’re still in the running. Obviously we won’t know anything about who’s coming and who isn’t until the reveals happen, but I don’t think we need to surround ourselves with negativity.


I don’t play many video games, I don’t surround myself in communities, but I check this thread every single day to enjoy the speculation and theorizing. I like to stay optimistic because Geno has always been one of my favorite characters, and we’ve never been closer. If anything, the game still manages to renew interest in him every time he’s speculated. This is Smash Ultimate, so I’m hoping for the ultimate outcome… but if it doesn’t happen, I want to enjoy the time spent theorizing. I don’t think doubting ourselves or throwing around negative conversation helps anyone.


Lastly, I do want to say - nothing is more off-putting to my visits in this thread mor eso than the constant discussion of things unrelated to the character. There was a period of pages where the discussion was on the new Pokemon games, for example, and while that is interesting and disappointing, etc., I don’t consider this thread a general discussion forum. I think it’s unnecessary to talk about things unrelated to Geno or the theorizing behind his inclusion in this thread. Feel free to disagree, but I figured I’d make my voice heard - I’d really like to stick on topic.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Welp, haven't gotten permission from Mom or Dad yet but I see Papagenos made the Melon Munchin' Mario pic public on his latest video. Yep, so apparently there's a ton of rumors floating around about this and nobody's quite sure what it means. Some people think it will be Odyssey DLC while some people think it will be a Sunshine Remaster using Odyssey's game engine. Personally, I think it'll be the latter because people have been begging for it forever.

 

[GenoToto]

Welp, haven't gotten permission from Mom or Dad yet but I see Papagenos made the Melon Munchin' Mario pic public on his latest video. Yep, so apparently there's a ton of rumors floating around about this and nobody's quite sure what it means. Some people think it will be Odyssey DLC while some people think it will be a Sunshine Remaster using Odyssey's game engine. Personally, I think it'll be the latter because people have been begging for it forever.

DLC would be great. A remaster would be absolutely incredible. Frankly, I'd given up on the notion of a Sunshine revisit, but with these latest teasers... Hmmmm.

 

[JarBear]

Per the tweet from Nintendo with that image it seems to me it will probably be DLC for Odyssey, you can see the island on the map for Odyssey.
However, we still have the numerous unnamed SKU’s ad shown from Gamestop and Sunshine has been begged for years, it could use Odyssey’s engine has Fat suggested ... hmmmmm....

 

[GenoToto]

Mario Sunshine is easily one of my all-time favorites for the Gamecube lineup of software. Though, for as much fun as I'd had with it, it was pretty clear to me that a lot of stuff, handling and otherwise, was kind of rough around the edges, and needed some additional polish... To potentially receive that polish in the way of a perfected gameplay engine derived from Odyssey would be an absolute treat, and I can only imagine what that may look and feel like.

Crossing fingers. Hoping for the best.

Incidentally, I wonder if, with a Remaster, they could ideally revisit a couple of things to explore them a bit more. Like, say... that weird little secret with the book in the bottle at Noki Bay.. (Thinking way too hard about that, but, you know. S'fun.)

 

[Ovaltine]

I can't help but be very skeptical about a Sunshine remake or anything related to that Mario image, especially since that render was originally for a Japanese calendar (I think?). I honestly think they'd make an Odyssey sequel with all of the scrapped ideas, Isle Delfino's presence being one of them. I doubt a Sunshine remake, even though I'd personally love that. I adore Sunshine, and that game with a modern flair would be amazing.

Down with the pachinko machine... Down with it!!

 

[GenoToto]

I can't help but be very skeptical about a Sunshine remake or anything related to that Mario image, especially since that render was originally for a Japanese calendar (I think?). I honestly think they'd make an Odyssey sequel with all of the scrapped ideas, Isle Delfino's presence being one of them. I doubt a Sunshine remake, even though I'd personally love that. I adore Sunshine, and that game with a modern flair would be amazing.

Down with the pachinko machine... Down with it!!

Hey. Hey! We don't talk about the Pachinko Machine.

 

[YsDisciple]

I need that Nintendo Direct to come in ASAP!!! I need it in my VEINS!!!

Drinks Kero Kero Colas compulsively

 

[Ovaltine]

I want y'all to imagine Mario taking Geno to Gelato Beach for the watermelon festival.

Mario is a pro at this by now. He gets the best possible watermelon. Geno, however, struggles. It isn't because of his size, no, or the fact that he's not able to formulate a plan to get the watermelon where it belongs. No.

I'm talking these guys.

Spoiler: the real image of despair

Geno learns to fly again in a whole new way.

 

[Bee Card]

I know we're feeling down about our star boy

Feeling down ? Who's feeling down ?

Imo I think Geno never been so close to be in the game with the lack of mii costume + the strange thing about the "two tracks theories"
I don't think he will be in the pass but after the pass by the way. I mean, fighter pass is for business between Nintendo and third parties.

Wake up ! We got Simon, K. Rool, Ridley and even Banjo & Kazooie ! Last year I wouldn't have believed that Simon and Banjo would be in the game.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I can't help but be very skeptical about a Sunshine remake or anything related to that Mario image, especially since that render was originally for a Japanese calendar (I think?). I honestly think they'd make an Odyssey sequel with all of the scrapped ideas, Isle Delfino's presence being one of them. I doubt a Sunshine remake, even though I'd personally love that. I adore Sunshine, and that game with a modern flair would be amazing.

Down with the pachinko machine... Down with it!!

I want to say it's an original render because nobody has been able to backtrace it to anything yet. Nintendo posted it officially so it's definitely not fan art. I also give credence to it because apparently it's one of the bigger rumors at NoA right now. People are practically drop kicking each other out windows though because nobody knows exactly what it means, if anything. I do think it's a hint towards one of the two things I mentioned earlier and, with Nintendo being this forward about it, I honestly doubt it will even be the biggest news to come out of the highly probable September Direct. I wouldn't be surprised if the Direct was flat out started with this, well, if it actually means anything.

 

[MissingGlitch]

It's either a
1. Super Mario Sunshine remake
2. Odyssey 2 featuring a world based around Sunshine
3. Super Mario Sunshine 2

 

[DaxMasterix]

I don’t think we’re getting any sunshine related news..

Spoiler: Hmmm

Perhaps..

 

[YsDisciple]

Ok, Nintendo with those two instances during the Luigi's Mansion 3, and Link's Awakening demos at Gamescon, PLUS the tweet about Mario deserving a vacation... these are all looking like HARD teases right there.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t think we’re getting any sunshine related news..

Spoiler: Hmmm

View attachment 235469

Perhaps..

Oh my god we're gonna get... A Mario and Spongebob crossover game?! Heck yeah!