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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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KirbyWorshipper2465

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It sounds to me like Sakurai being the common denominator in both situations means that he isn't the one at fault for any poor representation, but Nintendo themselves. Ganondorf was a very last minute addition in Melee, for example, but what if Nintendo really wanted to push him in there and Sakurai had to rush him, therefore making him a Falcon clone? There's a lot that we don't know about the process of Melee's development and likely never will know, let alone any other Smash game. If he has no problems with third parties and has issues with first parties, then that sounds like a consistently Nintendo problem.
There's also a case by case basis of bad timing. Like Wario mostly having WW material for moves (and occasionally pulled outta nowhere like the Corkscrew Jump) in a transitionary time when the Land series was getting left behind. This is probably also the main reason why Ware itself hasn't had any playable representatives yet (well, besides Wah); Nintendo didn't do anything major with Ashley by 4, and the Ware series straight-up was on hiatus a few years before Ultimate.

Meanwhile, creative liberties are sometimes taken for the sake of moveset diversity, despite having stuff to work with (e.g. :ultincineroar: having even more focus on wrassling than in canon, happy International Cat Day, by the way!).
 
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SSGuy

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Truthfully I doubt that Jon’s otterposting means anything at all (unless it WAS Hero). The dude just really likes otters outside of posting them to hint at news. They are adorable, so I can see where he’s coming from. But I don’t believe that every time we see a post relating to otters, that it means news is coming like we may end up thinking.

I don't think Otters are really in the running, but with our luck, I think Starling will end up something not Smash related. We've cleared too big hurdles but I feel like there is something else that isn't Geno waiting. I just don't know what to believe in any more lol
 

Evil Trapezium

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It sounds to me like Sakurai being the common denominator in both situations means that he isn't the one at fault for any poor representation, but Nintendo themselves. Ganondorf was a very last minute addition in Melee, for example, but what if Nintendo really wanted to push him in there and Sakurai had to rush him, therefore making him a Falcon clone? There's a lot that we don't know about the process of Melee's development and likely never will know, let alone any other Smash game. If he has no problems with third parties and has issues with first parties, then that sounds like a consistently Nintendo problem.
We all know that Melee had a very rushed development cycle and there originally weren't supposed to be any clone characters but I think it was Sakurai who wanted to enlarge the roster more with clone characters. He was the one who decided Ultimate's roster after all so I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities that this was the case back in the day as well.

So Ganondorf probably just got unlucky and had to be a Captain Falcon clone.

But Source Gaming did cover this back a while ago: https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/
 

Ovaltine

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We all know that Melee had a very rushed development cycle and there originally weren't supposed to be any clone characters but I think it was Sakurai who wanted to enlarge the roster more with clone characters. He was the one who decided Ultimate's roster after all so I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities that this was the case back in the day as well.

So Ganondorf probably just got unlucky and had to be a Captain Falcon clone.

But Source Gaming did cover this back a while ago: https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/
Huh, that's... pretty interesting, actually. Well, that's a little different than I'd imagined, but fascinating nonetheless. Thanks for sharing!!
 
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There's also a case by case basis of bad timing. Like Wario mostly having WW material for moves (and occasionally pulled outta nowhere like the Corkscrew Jump) in a transitionary time when the Land series was getting left behind. This is probably also the main reason why Ware itself hasn't had any playable representatives yet (well, besides Wah); Nintendo didn't do anything major with Ashley by 4, and the Ware series straight-up was on hiatus a few years before Ultimate.

Meanwhile, creative liberties are sometimes taken for the sake of moveset diversity, despite having stuff to work with (e.g. :ultincineroar: having even more focus on wrassling than in canon, happy International Cat Day, by the way!).
I really just do not understand why they couldn't have pulled more moves from Wario Land for Wario aside from his shoulder tackle when those games have plenty of moves he can use in Smash. Like the way he throws his enemies in Land could've been used as his forward throw and his down air could've been his ground pound. But nah, we gotta have him smash his butt in peoples faces and do some upside down, twirling stuff. I'm consent with his dash attack in Ultimate, though. That gives me more hope that we'll see some more Wario Land material in the next Smash game.
 

StarLight42

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Is the source who showed Sabi the starling the same one who talked about Geno watercooler rumors?
 

Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
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Can we just sit back and enjoy the massive victory that was enjoyed nearly a week ago before trying to wrap up the fighter pass announcements before y’all start school?
I don't have school anymore. I kinda miss it a little bit.

Is the source who showed Sabi the starling the same one who talked about Geno watercooler rumors?
If memory serves, it is indeed (take that with a grain of salt, tho)
 
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Glitch-EGamer

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Hey, so, my best friend has a YouTube channel and I'm going to be making the art in it soon. I'm considering asking him about making a Smash episode discussing possible heroes and villains we think should be in Smash. If you have any suggestions on characters to discuss, feel free to let me know! Echoes and full fighters are perfectly fine! I think we'll cover franchises already present in Smash and new ones too. You can bet Geno will make an appearance if the episode happens.

Characters in consideration:
Geno
Porky
Rayman
???
 
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YsDisciple

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Given Hero's presentation video was on July 30th, we could expect more Smash news around the end of August; taking into consideration how much time it takes for making the Directs (or early September).
 

xpnc

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What are you talking about? Back then, all Link did in his games was flail his sword around and spam arrows and bombs. They even nailed his trademark spin slash. Kirby floated around, ate people and copied their power. What's not to represent? I mean, they had to add a lot of stuff to some of them so that they'd actually have a full moveset, but I think the only two characters that really drew a big WTF were Fox and Falcon. Falcon's entire moveset was based on a different character and for some totally inexplicable reason, Fox could go Super Saiyan. Other than that, I wouldn't say their representations were what you'd call "awful".
I struggle to see how Donkey Kong in 64 is a faithful representation of the character at all. The only thing I can identify as having been from a Donkey Kong game is the ground slap. They didn't even put in his roll until Smash 4. The same goes for Ness, who has exactly 0 of his actual attacks from Earthbound.

Mario had all sorts of interesting moves in his games, from two separate flight-inducing items in SMB3 and SMW to a litany of different attacks from the then recently-released SMRPG. Instead of making his Up B the cape or something like that, they made it another jump. Instead of having him kick a shell or even use the actual spin jump he does in SMW, they invented "Mario Cyclone" out of thin air and made it his down B.

Samus has all the grace and fluidity of a sack of moldy potatoes, opting instead to give her trademark speed and maneuverability to a character who spent 99% of his canon appearances up to that point sat in a cockpit. Her moveset seems like the result of someone who has never played Metroid went on an old geocities Super Metroid fansite, picked three of her weapons and assigned them to B moves. Except, not really, because Metroid's Charge Beam doesn't work like the one in Smash at all.

So now there's 4, add the two you mentioned for 6, add Luigi as a clone of Mario for 7.

As far as Link is concerned, seeing as Ocarina of Time was clearly the inspiration for the character's Smash 4 incarnation, I don't think they did an especially good job. He suffers from the same issues as Samus in that while his B-moves may very well be actual attacks from his games they're all executed in such a clunky way that he doesn't feel anything like how playing as Link in OoT feels. The stuff you can do while Z-targeting offers up several movement options they just chose not to implement. Despite having an actual backflip he does while z-targetting, they gave him the same cookie-cutter roll as everyone except Samus and Yoshi. It took until Smash 4 for Link to use his Jump attack as his Dash attack, for goodness sake.

And there is empirical proof that Link and Samus's Smash 64 movesets are awful because they are the worst characters in the game.

I'm going to bring it up to 8. 3/4 of Smash 64's cast are awful representations of what the characters actually do in their games. I have no interest in debating this.
 
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wynn728

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The only "clue" we got now is Jon predicting that Geno and Edelgard will be DLC. Did the bird and the roof hint to both at once? Who knows, in the meantime, we should at least wait a month before mulling over this again.
Jon prediction are not a hint to anything. He said he believe that a new Pokemon will be revealed at E3 and that Pokemon we be reveal as a Smash Bros fighter at the same time to build up hype. Taking anything they say during their DLC Discussion video shouldn't be taken too serious since it was done for just entertainment.
 

StarLight42

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Jon prediction are not a hint to anything. He said he believe that a new Pokemon will be revealed at E3 and that Pokemon we be reveal as a Smash Bros fighter at the same time to build up hype. Taking anything they say during their DLC Discussion video shouldn't be taken too serious since it was done for just entertainment.
Well actually last fall Jon started getting a number of unusual things right in Nintendo Direct “predictions”

He stopped doing that awhile ago, and most of his predictions now are false
 

CannonStreak

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Well actually last fall Jon started getting a number of unusual things right in Nintendo Direct “predictions”

He stopped doing that awhile ago, and most of his predictions now are false
At least that isn’t Sabi’s source. Not that the starling picture may not be any more right than what Jon says, I am just saying.
 

wynn728

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Well actually last fall Jon started getting a number of unusual things right in Nintendo Direct “predictions”

He stopped doing that awhile ago, and most of his predictions now are false
Yeah I remember the whole Kirby Epic Yarn 3DS and some other stuff. He knows some stuff, mostly because there are game reporters who see these in advance depending on what it is (like how some people were able to know Banjo is in since they saw it a week before it air). But he's going to actually spoil anything any more, and I doubt he had insider knowledge during their DLC Discussion. If that was the case then they would never talked about the 5ch leak. People are trying to put so much weight in these small thing for the sake of it counting as evidence for Geno being in Smash Bros.
 

MisterMike

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Hey, so, my best friend has a YouTube channel and I'm going to be making the art in it soon. I'm considering asking him about making a Smash episode discussing possible heroes and villains we think should be in Smash. If you have any suggestions on characters to discuss, feel free to let me know! Echoes and full fighters are perfectly fine! I think we'll cover franchises already present in Smash and new ones too. You can bet Geno will make an appearance if the episode happens.

Characters in consideration:
Geno
Porky
Rayman
???
What about Medusa as an echo fighter for Palutena?
 

Loog

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So much for looking for hints at his videos then. Might as well wait around for the next couple of months, we're just spinning around in circles at this stage.

Im sure time will fly right on by and before you know it well get some kind of anouncement.
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
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Hey guys, so I just completed Part 1 of Final Fantasy 7, and even though I knew what was about to happen.

I'm gonna carry that weight.

Seriously though I'm just memeing because my chest hurts and I'm trying not to gush out like faucet right now.
 

Datboigeno

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Hey, so, my best friend has a YouTube channel and I'm going to be making the art in it soon. I'm considering asking him about making a Smash episode discussing possible heroes and villains we think should be in Smash. If you have any suggestions on characters to discuss, feel free to let me know! Echoes and full fighters are perfectly fine! I think we'll cover franchises already present in Smash and new ones too. You can bet Geno will make an appearance if the episode happens.

Characters in consideration:
Geno
Porky
Rayman
???
Mach Rider
Crash Bandicoot
Jill Valentine
Isaac
 

SpiritOfRuin

Smash Ace
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Messages
737
Hey, so, my best friend has a YouTube channel and I'm going to be making the art in it soon. I'm considering asking him about making a Smash episode discussing possible heroes and villains we think should be in Smash. If you have any suggestions on characters to discuss, feel free to let me know! Echoes and full fighters are perfectly fine! I think we'll cover franchises already present in Smash and new ones too. You can bet Geno will make an appearance if the episode happens.

Characters in consideration:
Geno
Porky
Rayman
???
Datboigeno mentioned some good ones. Here's some others that I think are relatively popular but not necessarily characters I personally want:
Spyro
Doom Slayer
Chorus Kids
Waluigi
(Captain) Toad/Toadette
The Human from Undertale
Krystal
Dixie Kong
Steve
 

Glitch-EGamer

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Datboigeno mentioned some good ones. Here's some others that I think are relatively popular but not necessarily characters I personally want:
Spyro
Doom Slayer
Chorus Kids
Waluigi
(Captain) Toad/Toadette
The Human from Undertale
Krystal
Dixie Kong
Steve
Thank you both for such wonderful choices! I may limit it to a good 10 heroes and 10 villains because that's a lot of characters to draw, lol. I now have 15 heroes to choose from so I need to get a few villains in here.
 
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CannonStreak

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Thank you both for such wonderful choices! I may limit it to a good 10 heroes and 10 villains because that's a lot of characters to draw, lol. I now have 15 heroes to choose from so I need to get a few villains in here.
If I may add one more hero, you can't possibly leave out Crash Bandicoot.

As for Villains, how about Captain Syrup from Wario Land? And Vaati from Zelda and Fawful from the Mario and Luigi RPG games? And Black Shadow from F-Zero?
 
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MisterMike

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Thank you both for such wonderful choices! I may limit it to a good 10 heroes and 10 villains because that's a lot of characters to draw, lol. I now have 15 heroes to choose from so I need to get a few villains in here.
Black Shadow
Dry Bowser
Marx
Magolor
Edelgard
Sylux
 

SpiritOfRuin

Smash Ace
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Thank you both for such wonderful choices! I may limit it to a good 10 heroes and 10 villains because that's a lot of characters to draw, lol. I now have 15 heroes to choose from so I need to get a few villains in here.
Here's some villain ideas (I see some have already been mentioned):
Giygas
Fawful
Skull Kid
Dark Matter
Dimentio
Antasma
Dracula
Ghetsis or Giovanni (would probably have to be like Pokemon trainer with different Pokemon like Seismitoad/Eelektross/Hydreigon for Ghetsis or Rhyhorn/Persian/Nidoking for Giovanni)
Marx
Magolor
Sylux
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Thank you both for such wonderful choices! I may limit it to a good 10 heroes and 10 villains because that's a lot of characters to draw, lol. I now have 15 heroes to choose from so I need to get a few villains in here.
Dr. Eggman/Robotnik
Porky
Masked Man
Marx
Fawful
Skull Kid
Giygas
Magalor
Giovanni
 

Ben Holt

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I am torn now, honestly.
I absolutely trust Sabi, but I also firmly believe that the Google Leak was a bit too perfect to be just a glitch. So that means that I believe that the final two Fighter's Pass characters are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa, but I also see Geno as likely. So either Geno is a bonus character like Piranha Plant, or he is part of a second Fighter's Pass.
Hopefully the second, for obvious reasons.
 

Oaterinos

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Hey guys, so I just completed Part 1 of Final Fantasy 7, and even though I knew what was about to happen.

I'm gonna carry that weight.

Seriously though I'm just memeing because my chest hurts and I'm trying not to gush out like faucet right now.
My guy i just finished FF7 recently and wow. What a game. It makes me appreciate Cloud in smash WAY more after learning that he has actual depth.
(ALSO BEBOP IS THE **** I LOVE IT)
 

Glitch-EGamer

Smash Lord
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Thank you guys for so many suggestions! I'll have to pick the ten I feel work the best and I'll get to work on them! Heck, we may need to make this a two-parter!
 
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