Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

Juliet Starling is probably the least likely Suda 51 character open to be considered. You're more likely to see Killer7 content get in than Lollipop Chainsaw

 

[EarlTamm]

The only way I can Juliet making any major Nintendo news after all these years is if she somehow shows up for No More Heroes 3. But even then, it feels way to soon too get news about that game.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Discourse is not for support threads though friend. That's what Rate Their Chances, etc, etc is for.

You're not going into a thread for let's say Mach Rider and saying ''Mach Rider is this and that and this why his chances are lower."

That's just the opposite of support. You can bring up things that are negative sure, but to go into a thread and deliberately attempt multiple times to start a discourse bring up the negative is no longer supporting. It's just being a troll whether you meant to or not in a support thread.

Every support thread is a sub-category labeled "Ultimate Character Discussion" and then a further sub-category of "Newcomer Speculation." They are all classified as discussion threads first and foremost. Hell, the first sentence of this thread is "This will be the main topic for discussion of Geno..."

Discussion and discourse is literally built into everything about this thread and every other character thread on these forums, yet I still see this come up as people somehow thinking it doesn't have a place here. There's a way you present yourself in discussion and you still have to adhere to the forum rules that are important, but discourse is 100% part of this thread.

GameXplain’s Jon brings up an interesting point when talking about Geno. He explains how Square Enix may not actually be the obstacle here like most of us think, and the ball is actually on Nintendo’s side of the court.

I'm glad you brought this back up, I've always maintained the ball has been with Nintendo and Sakurai since the Smash 4 era. I don't think Square Enix cares enough to block Geno, and they've licensed him both times he's appeared in Smash Bros despite the relative lack of other content. That directs me away from them and towards Nintendo.

You honestly can't get me to believe that Nintendo was more then willing to get Joker with no benefit to them but turn down a mario character time and time again

Joker gives them more benefit than Geno through Persona Q2, Person 5 Scramble, and just being a recent icon that will likely be in another few Persona spin-offs that might come to Switch. Geno does nothing but satisfy some fans for either company, and I've always stated it will come down to if Nintendo and Sakurai are interested enough in doing purely that over other popular choices that come with more benefits. It's a Mario character they don't own and will likely never own/nor use without a specific project being developed with Square Enix, so I doubt most of Nintendo at large is chomping at the bit to get him.

 

[Deleted member]

I wanna buy No More Heroes 3.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

Also, although Sakurai swore that Nintendo picked the DLC, there’s a lot going around that says Sakurai himself pushed for Joker and Persona content in Smash.

IIRC, Sakurai said Nintendo gave him a list of options, and Sakurai chose from those options.

 

[Datboigeno]

Personally, I take the George Carlin approach: anything can be humorous, it's all about delivery.

I think his comment was similar to the one that SSGuy made when he had to take an L for the whole autism thing: this person was upset with the designs and used a word that some people think is inappropriate to describe how he felt.

A personal example: when I was growing up as a teen and even into my early twenties, I used to say "Well that's gay." in response to something negative, like someone having a bad day or something didn't go right like McDonald's got their order wrong. I picked it up from someone else and it was just something I said. Did that mean I found gay people to be a bad thing? No (although I will say that in years before that I did, thanks Christian upbringing! ), it was literally just my version of "Well, that sucks!." I remember being in my local card shop and being pulled aside by staff because I offended one of the workers there who was a gay guy. I was pissed that the whole situation even happened because I have nothing against gay people, but suddenly I have to change how I talk because someone was overly sensitive and assumed something about me? Couldn't they just come to me personally and we could talk it out so they would know when I say "Well, that was gay!" that it didn't mean anything against them?

No, I'm the bad guy and I have to stop doing it because I could hurt someone's feelings. I eventually stopped saying it as frequently, but not for the reason: it just fell out of my common phrases as other phrases I liked took root. I rarely have it pop out randomly, but I'll never say I was sorry for it because it doesn't mean anything bad. This is why I think, as a society in the US, we are too focused on making others bend to our whims and wills instead of doing self-reflection: why force others to change when we can change ourselves to be better? Why do you have to place it on the customer to stop saying a phrase that means nothing because your employee can't be bothered to not feel threatened or offended by insignificant things when that customer literally knows nothing about that employee and clearly isn't there to offend them? Now if I had responded with "Oh, he's a f*****, well **** him then! What a freak of nature!" then I could understand some concern and I would hope they would ask me to leave at that point.

...

Oh, right, Geno Thread!


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I know! Here's some badass Geno art!

Spoiler: Geno Art!

View attachment 233927

Yeah, I think you're just not getting it. Just because you find something to be funny or cool to say doesn't mean that it isn't ****ed up or hurtful to other people. If that situation in the card shop actually happened sorry to be the one to tell you, but you were in the wrong. You said something bigoted/ignorant and someone called you out for it. You weren't the victim in that situation. I feel like what you're missing here is something called empathy. If someone finds something to be hurtful or egregiously offensive people with common human decency will make the obvious choice not to do said thing when they know that it's causing someone emotional distress. Things can be insignificant to you but actually deeply hurtful to other people. The onus isn't on the person being affected by it to "get over it". It's on you to be the bigger person and being considerate of their feelings.

 

[JarBear]

From Sakurai's Tweet:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

IIRC, Sakurai said Nintendo gave him a list of options, and Sakurai chose from those options.

That's somewhat inaccurate to the statement. While it's possible that's what he meant, what he said specifically was that Nintendo chose the characters, and it was up to him to see if he could make dlc out of them.

 

[Deleted member]

From Sakurai's Tweet:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

Joker was apparently a personal pick from Sakurai doh.

 

[JarBear]

It is possible that Nintendo came up with X number of choices and Sakurai "chose" 5 on the list based on the ability to make a fighter from them.

Again, not saying that is the case, but the way he worded "I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection ..." could imply that reasoning.

 

[StarLight42]

Seems like PR talk to me because Sakurai’s mentioned in past interviews before Joker was revealed how much he likes Persona 5, and I highly doubt a Playstation centric character was even on Nintendo’s “list of candidates”

 

[MattX20]

I have a hard time believing Nintendo would turn down a character from their most successful property Mario though. I sadly understand why Isaac didn't make the cut, the reasoning sucks for his fans, but I get it. No one at Nintendo is going to call Mario a dead franchise

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Seems like PR talk to me because Sakurai’s mentioned in past interviews before Joker was revealed how much he likes Persona 5, and I highly doubt a Playstation centric character was even on Nintendo’s “list of candidates”

I mean Nintendo probably had someone else in mind, but as we quite clearly saw, joker stole their invite

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Joker has to be a Sakurai pick because like everyone is saying, why would Nintendo approach Atlus to use a character from Persona 5? Would it have been specifically done to surprise Sakurai? Now I'm starting to think that Joker was chosen in August of last year as a birthday present for Sakurai. :^)

 

[kiteinthesky]

Alright, here I come again being a big bad meanie.

People seriously brush aside the ‘spirits deconfirm’ argument as silly or inconsequential, but it appears to me that there’s a fundamental misunderstanding between parties what it’s based on.

Nobody is trying to make the argument that Geno or other spirits can’t be made into a character (or that ‘all work was thrown out the window’) just because ‘there’s already a .png lmao).

The idea is that Spirits more than likely are the final intended role of those characters. Sakurai said it himself, ‘no characters were added or removed from the project plan.’ Does it suck Waluigi and Isaac are Assists? Yes. Does it bite Geno, Bandana Dee and many others are possibly stuck as Spirits? Double yes. But that may be the position Sakurai felt was the most applicable for them. He didn’t do it maliciously, consideration went into the project plan and they were not characters he considered.

Especially when you look into the case of 3rd parties like Geno and Shantae, an agreement has to be reached between Nintendo and the third party in question how they can use the character, if Nintendo goes to Square Enid and we get Geno as a Spirit, then that may very well be all that Nintendo wanted, or all Square would allow.

I’m not trying to deconfirm Geno or stomp out hope, but please consider that being a Spirit may actually be a bigger obstacle than some of you purport it to be.

But there's no way to know what he meant for sure until all of the DLC is released, so what's the point in adopting that pessimistic, albeit rational, interpretation of the situation?

This is a Geno thread. If we just accepted that, what would we do afterward? Go our separate ways, say "have a nice life" and then let our beloved fictional character be forgotten to time?

Nah, **** that, we have to keep up the faith. I don't doubt the rationality of your words or even disagree with you, I just don't see that viewpoint as productive.

 

[Firox]

So I just watched the new trailer for Pokemon Sw and Sh, and let me just say that while I think having new third evolutions for pokes like Zigzagoon is kinda cool, I really don't think it was worth the death of Mega evolutions. I mean, Zigzagoon?! The thing is trash from a competitive perspective unless that new evolution magically breaks it. Even then, it's a dark/normal so the ever-so-common fighting types/moves out there will eat it alive. Yeah, I think I would have rather kept my sexy charizard evolutions. You know, the ones that actually have strategic value? Ah, who am I kidding? Giant Hangry Puffball is so worth the sacrifice. /s

 

[Datboigeno]

So I just watched the new trailer for Pokemon Sw and Sh, and let me just say that while I think having new third evolutions for pokes like Zigzagoon is kinda cool, I really don't think it was worth the death of Mega evolutions. I mean, Zigzagoon?! The thing is trash from a competitive perspective unless that new evolution magically breaks it. Even then, it's a dark/normal so the ever-so-common fighting types/moves out there will eat it alive. Yeah, I think I would have rather kept my sexy charizard evolutions. You know, the ones that actually have strategic value? Ah, who am I kidding? Giant Hangry Puffball is so worth the sacrifice. /s

Maybe it's a really minor thing to get annoyed over but I'm still mad they skipped over the Johto starters for mega evolutions and I was hoping Gen 6 would bring the concept back just so there'd be a chance to get them.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

So I just watched the new trailer for Pokemon Sw and Sh, and let me just say that while I think having new third evolutions for pokes like Zigzagoon is kinda cool, I really don't think it was worth the death of Mega evolutions. I mean, Zigzagoon?! The thing is trash from a competitive perspective unless that new evolution magically breaks it. Even then, it's a dark/normal so the ever-so-common fighting types/moves out there will eat it alive. Yeah, I think I would have rather kept my sexy charizard evolutions. You know, the ones that actually have strategic value? Ah, who am I kidding? Giant Hangry Puffball is so worth the sacrifice. /s

Ngl, mega evolutions were what made x and y my favorite. So many pokemon I never really got interested in had new life breathed into them through this system. And the triple battles were sublime. It's a shame they took all of that and went "nah fam, here's your z moves"

 

[MattX20]

I know a lot of fans are still mourning the loss of the Mega Evolution for Flygon. Accursed artist block

 

[ForsakenM]

Yeah, I think you're just not getting it. Just because you find something to be funny or cool to say doesn't mean that it isn't ****ed up or hurtful to other people. If that situation in the card shop actually happened sorry to be the one to tell you, but you were in the wrong. You said something bigoted/ignorant and someone called you out for it. You weren't the victim in that situation. I feel like what you're missing here is something called empathy. If someone finds something to be hurtful or egregiously offensive people with common human decency will make the obvious choice not to do said thing when they know that it's causing someone emotional distress. Things can be insignificant to you but actually deeply hurtful to other people. The onus isn't on the person being affected by it to "get over it". It's on you to be the bigger person and being considerate of their feelings.

Yep, this where we agree to disagree,

It's not on someone else to worry about how everyone else feels. It's on the individual to determine whether or not someone is actually trying to insult them or not and to not be over-dramatic when no insults are meant. It's one thing if you have someone close to you who is bothered by something. Normally, the approach would be to stop doing that thing since you care about them. It's another thing to be told to stop doing something because it might offend people you don't know and may never meet nor know if you met them. There is a difference between common courtesy and policing language.

I was not bigoted. You are misusing the term. I was not/am not intolerant of someone holding a different opinion. I was not ignorant. Once again, term misuse. I was not/am not lacking knowledge or awareness or generally uneducated. What I did was simply say something that had no negative connotations towards homosexuals, but rather was using a word that that homosexuals have slowly adopted to mean something new when originally it was a slang term as opposed to the original definition, and transforming that word to mean 'unfair' or 'unfortunate' in my own use.

If anything, the store associate and the offended employee were bigoted because they were intolerant of someone using words or terms in different manners and ways. This is why you cannot just throw out buzzwords like you have: they lose their meaning and can be easily used against you.

Last but not least, offense can never be given: it can only be taken. Even if someone attempts to insult you, it means nothing if you don't care. It's something people have forgotten over time while trying to shape everyone to do things for them rather than making any attempt at bettering themselves. We live in a world where people would rather the whole of society change to fit them rather than change a singular thing about themselves. Whatever happened to 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me?'

If you wish to continue this non-Geno discussion, I will do so in PMs when I have the time, but rest assured I will not be persuaded on this topic.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

What a fantastic month to be a Genoid

 

[MisterMike]

Yeah, I think you're just not getting it. Just because you find something to be funny or cool to say doesn't mean that it isn't ****ed up or hurtful to other people. If that situation in the card shop actually happened sorry to be the one to tell you, but you were in the wrong. You said something bigoted/ignorant and someone called you out for it. You weren't the victim in that situation. I feel like what you're missing here is something called empathy. If someone finds something to be hurtful or egregiously offensive people with common human decency will make the obvious choice not to do said thing when they know that it's causing someone emotional distress. Things can be insignificant to you but actually deeply hurtful to other people. The onus isn't on the person being affected by it to "get over it". It's on you to be the bigger person and being considerate of their feelings.

"It's not my responsibility to grow a thicker skin and not spaz out over people's usage of relatively mundane verbage, it's your responsibility to curtail your speech so as to fit my delicate sensibilities."
Okay.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

What a fantastic month to be a Genoid

On the whole, I would say being a Genoid is a pleasant experience

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It's official, the history of Ultimate's development is now Rashomon. Now we have to figure out the truth behind it.

Spoiler

Ngl, mega evolutions were what made x and y my favorite. So many pokemon I never really got interested in had new life breathed into them through this system. And the triple battles were sublime. It's a shame they took all of that and went "nah fam, here's your z moves"

That's how it is; when something fails in Japanese culture, they go back to the tried and true and double down on it, regardless of how well-executed the thing in question was. The complaints over X & Y's villains, music and other things outweighed the good that was seen in those games.

But there's no way to know what he meant for sure until all of the DLC is released, so what's the point in adopting that pessimistic, albeit rational, interpretation of the situation?

This is a Geno thread. If we just accepted that, what would we do afterward? Go our separate ways, say "have a nice life" and then let our beloved fictional character be forgotten to time?

Nah, **** that, we have to keep up the faith. I don't doubt the rationality of your words or even disagree with you, I just don't see that viewpoint as productive.

Yeah man, just look at the Mother following for Smash; every supported Mother 3 character was dropped like wet clothing after 4's DLC period ended, and now they're just down to Ninten and Porky. If neither get in, they'll mostly call it quits. I want to prevent something like this to happen ever again.

Spoiler

 

[StarLight42]

When would be a reasonable time to expect this Starling to pan out? Because I honestly don’t know if there would be a Direct this month

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Juliet Starling is probably the least likely Suda 51 character open to be considered. You're more likely to see Killer7 content get in than Lollipop Chainsaw

I actually supported her for Smash 4, lol.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The sources' credibility deepens. He not only leaked some of the Pokemon in today's presentation to us but he also correctly leaked the Three Thrones characters coming to Fire Emblem Heroes. I keep telling you all, this guy is batting a 1.000 and he's been correctly leaking things to Sabi and the rest of us for about a year now. It's insane how good this guy's intel is and salt about it from naysayers and rival leakers is hilarious.

 

[ForsakenM]

"It's not my responsibility to grow a thicker skin and not spaz out over people's usage of relatively mundane verbage, it's your responsibility to curtail your speech so as to fit my delicate sensibilities."
Okay.

It's something I never understood, because I got insulted all the time and I just let it go. I've been on the extremes on both sides.

I've been insulted and called a sociopath or psychopath or emotionless ******* because I have low-level Autism and I never let it bother me too much because I knew they just didn't understand and they weren't me, so they couldn't know me.

I've also had people freak out on me because of something I said that wasn't an insult and wasn't even about them at all, a la my example. They were at least professional about it, but I've had people actually snap on me because they thought I was insulting someone when I wasn't even talking to them or about any group.

EDIT: I said I would stop in here so I will.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

That's how it is; when something fails in Japanese culture, they go back to the tried and true and double down on it, regardless of how well-executed the thing in question was. The complaints over X & Y's villains, music and other things outweighed the good that was seen in those games.

doubly shameful, as the champion's theme is easily my second favorite piece of music in the series next to Cynthia's theme.

 

[SSGuy]

When would be a reasonable time to expect this Starling to pan out? Because I honestly don’t know if there would be a Direct this month

The way it is looking like, we probably won't hear anything relating to Character 4 until the Banjo preview.

Not sure what this means for the Starling. It still can be anything. (Besides FE apparently)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The sources' credibility deepens. He not only leaked some of the Pokemon in today's presentation to us but he also correctly leaked the Three Thrones characters coming to Fire Emblem Heroes. I keep telling you all, this guy is batting a 1.000 and he's been correctly leaking things to Sabi and the rest of us for about a year now. It's insane how good this guy's intel is and salt about it from naysayers and rival leakers is hilarious.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's why Verge went quiet. It's one thing to fail at properly leaking Bamco's games, but why bother when the other guy is clearly better than you?

 

[StarLight42]

The way it is looking like, we probably won't hear anything relating to Character 4 until the Banjo preview.

Not sure what this means for the Starling. It still can be anything.

That’s not entirely accurate. We could hear about character 4 ahead of time, and then have a Banjo focused Demo direct like they did with Hero

 

[ForsakenM]

Okay guys, time to hurry up and wait!

While you wait, I would encourage you to pick up Hero and run some 'use Hocus Pocus whenever you get it' runs on Elite Smash. great way to pass the time!

 

[Deleted member]

Okay guys, time to hurry up and wait!

While you wait, I would encourage you to pick up Hero and run some 'use Hocus Pocus whenever you get it' runs on Elite Smash. great way to pass the time!

As a DQ fan without Switch Online I really wish I could agree with you.

But I never experienced Elite Smash due to my lack of an online subscription

 

[SSGuy]

Okay guys, time to hurry up and wait!

While you wait, I would encourage you to pick up Hero and run some 'use Hocus Pocus whenever you get it' runs on Elite Smash. great way to pass the time!

I don't have any DLC

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That’s not entirely accurate. We could hear about character 4 ahead of time, and then have a Banjo focused Demo direct like they did with Hero

Honest question, when did we ever hear of an upcoming character before the previous one got released? Package deals don't count.

I don't have any DLC

I don't have a Switch.

 

[StarLight42]

Honest question, when did we ever hear of an upcoming character before the previous one got released? Package deals don't count.



I don't have a Switch.

Yes. Hero and Banjo were announced at the same time. And there was no Banjo at all in Hero's own special video.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yes. Hero and Banjo were announced at the same time. And there was no Banjo at all in Hero's own special video.

Specifically talking about individual character reveals, rather. And I specified that double reveals don't count.

 

[StarLight42]

Specifically talking about individual character reveals, rather. And I specified that double reveals don't count.

You said "package deals" which implies releasing the characters at the same time. Banjo and Hero are not releasing at the same time.

 

[zippyskipy]

Juliet Starling is probably the least likely Suda 51 character open to be considered. You're more likely to see Killer7 content get in than Lollipop Chainsaw

oh god don't even get me started on how rad having the Smith Syndicate as a character would be.
I know this will never happen but just, imagine being able to switch between all the members in either a og zelda/sheik way or maybe just a menu or something. They certainly have different enough abilities for it to work imo!

ooh and maybe Harman with his big ass rifle could be their final smash

haha oh god, I could keep going but I feel like Killer7 is niche enough that nobody will have any idea what the **** I'm rattling on about