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General ICs Q&A Thread
- Thread starter smaci92
- Start date
Well, bthrow-fthrow is technically much more efficient. You don't need to run on the bthrow, you can buffer fthrow and after it backthrow again without shielding like with dthrow. Furthermore, Fthrow deals more damage than D-Throw. Keep in mind nana's throw never stales.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
yeah but if popo is doing the bthrow is stales for nana too so you end up having to do more throws because eventually both climbers are using a stale throw (as opposed to 1 stale throw if you bthrow>dthrow/fthrow)
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
F-throw is the climbers most damaging throw (8%), and always comes out fresh because nana is preforming it. B-throw is at a steady staling 6%, but the mighty 8% of the f-throw makes it better than D-throw(6%).
In other words, 14% staling > 12% staling.
In other words, 14% staling > 12% staling.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I just picked up Ice Climbers like, last week, so I'm having a little trouble. I'm thinking about making them my new mains if I get good enough, so help would be nice. :D
I don't really have a problem CGing and all that, but I'm having trouble doing the pivot ice block thing that IC's do to desynch most of the time, how do I time it correctly? I can get it around 1/10 times I try, I need to get it consistent, I don't want to rely on the Pivot Roll forever, it's not that good. =P
Also, why does Nana sometimes grab during the b-throw/d-throw CG, but sometimes doesn't? Am I just timing it wrong? It really screws with me once I get in a groove with the CG, and she randomly throws out an extra grab.
I don't really have a problem CGing and all that, but I'm having trouble doing the pivot ice block thing that IC's do to desynch most of the time, how do I time it correctly? I can get it around 1/10 times I try, I need to get it consistent, I don't want to rely on the Pivot Roll forever, it's not that good. =P
Also, why does Nana sometimes grab during the b-throw/d-throw CG, but sometimes doesn't? Am I just timing it wrong? It really screws with me once I get in a groove with the CG, and she randomly throws out an extra grab.
Sieguest
Smash Master
In one motion you want to move the control stick halfway between the rim and neutral and then snap it back the direction you were facing so:
If you're facing: ->
Move the control stick: <- and then snap it back ->
Just after you snap back the control press the b button. Only Popo should use the Ice Block.
Profit.
It's just being slightly late on regrab timing with Popo. Generally you have a smidget more time to react with Popo than Nana because he acts first to your commands. If you're on the late end of regrabbing with Popo after Nana's dthrow, then a grab gets put into Nana's buffer cue, which is why it seems she'll grab randomly out of place during the CG. Try regrabbing a smidgit faster and that should work.
00-Zero
Smash Journeyman
I've never once heard the word smidgit in the entirety of my life lmao.
But on other notes, I don't snap anything if I do the pivot desync, but that might just be me. When I do it, the control stick never once touches the rim. I just move it slightly back then forward. Normally with P(ice block) to an immediate N(blizzard or dash attack)
And also in addition to that, just after nana slides back from the desync, instead of shooting an ice block, use blizzard right after the pivot and they'll both do forward facing, grounded blizzards.
Just some food for thought.
But on other notes, I don't snap anything if I do the pivot desync, but that might just be me. When I do it, the control stick never once touches the rim. I just move it slightly back then forward. Normally with P(ice block) to an immediate N(blizzard or dash attack)
And also in addition to that, just after nana slides back from the desync, instead of shooting an ice block, use blizzard right after the pivot and they'll both do forward facing, grounded blizzards.
Just some food for thought.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
What, Standing Nana Desynch? Or Turnaround Desynch?
I never learned SND, tbh, and Turnaround desynch is really touchy and un-needed
I never learned SND, tbh, and Turnaround desynch is really touchy and un-needed
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Haha, thanks guys. I'm gonna give both a try and see what's easier for me. And I guess I need to work on my timing a bit more too. I got more practice to do!
To pivot IB just move the control stick in direction then quickly flick it the opposite direction while pressing B. You need to center the control stick to pivot so flicking it is the best way.
As far as CG questions just practice till she does what you want her to do.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Grandmother johns! LEGIT!
Maybe I'm using the word "snap" differently from you guys. When I say "snap" I don't mean that it touches the opposite rim, I'm just referring to the speed I move the control stick. x.x
There's a difference?
I need read mah threads again >.<
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
See why we need a desynch vid? <_< We still have no organization of our methods
Ok so my friend plays mk and he dair camps like a ***** but when I try to uair him he will air dodge through me and go underneth me and then all hell breaks loose. Is there a better tactic that I can use against him to prevent that from happening?
EverAlert
Smash Master
uair faster. there should be enough lag on his dair to punish if you're quick enough.
if you really can't get to him cause he's too far away or something then he's doing it wrong, but anyway punish the airdodge with a pivotgrab or something.
if you really can't get to him cause he's too far away or something then he's doing it wrong, but anyway punish the airdodge with a pivotgrab or something.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
if you know exactly what he's going to do and where he's going to be then bait it and punish with a grab, or anything
soo idk why but I have always had a hard time cg'ing snake. I can hobble him just fine but idk what it is about him. so like if I'm on a stage like yoshies island and I can't hobble snake I always have a hard time cg'ing him for some reason. I can cg all the other heavy characters no problem.
so whats your preferred cg to do on snake? I usually do back to forward on all the other heavy characters.
so whats your preferred cg to do on snake? I usually do back to forward on all the other heavy characters.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
i find bthrowing snake to be harder than all the other heavies
r3d d09
Smash Master
mental block to say the least.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Heavies is what Im working on myself, just keep on truckin'.
r3d d09
Smash Master
heavies = combo mania.
My girlfriend has the same avatar as you do on smashboards. It keeps ****ing with my head >_<.
I actually second DDD but lets say idk what character they are going to play and I have to play them first match. I just want to be able to hold my ground if I'm forced to play a heavy character.
00-Zero
Smash Journeyman
Just Down throw -> Forward throw snake
Unless there's a grenade lmao
Unless there's a grenade lmao
Aglow
Smash Journeyman
It would seem that most climbers have a snake-related mental block then.
r3d d09
Smash Master
I can CG him as good as any other character i guess.
00-Zero
Smash Journeyman
Snake is one of my more easier to cg. He's just one of the hardest to actually land a grab on.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
Hi, long time reader but new poster to the boards. I wanted to ask a question about control layouts.
Does anyone else see any merit to assigning "R" to a special attack?
I've been using it recently and it's helped my aerial SHFF desync game tremendously. My theory is that it places your buffered special attack on a second free finger other than the thumb which is already attacking, and thus allows you to buffer moves quicker than with a thumb alone. (kind of like pressing Z and C-stick to DACUS, only with a special attacks)
Also, it makes bungie-jumping edge guarding very easy.
Thoughts or alternative layouts I could consider?
Does anyone else see any merit to assigning "R" to a special attack?
I've been using it recently and it's helped my aerial SHFF desync game tremendously. My theory is that it places your buffered special attack on a second free finger other than the thumb which is already attacking, and thus allows you to buffer moves quicker than with a thumb alone. (kind of like pressing Z and C-stick to DACUS, only with a special attacks)
Also, it makes bungie-jumping edge guarding very easy.
Thoughts or alternative layouts I could consider?
Sieguest
Smash Master
@_@ I had never thought of that. I've been using a bstick for a while now. That's worked for me. I've not changed much else. I might make the y button another grab button since it's a bit closer to home than the Z button, and set Z to attack or special.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
This might be a bad question, but how do you charge a smash to finish your chains? I use C-stick + Z (with Z as grab still. I also have Y set to grab), but haven't tested charging with the Bstick.
Sieguest
Smash Master
I don't charge my smashes. I CG a bit higher than normal than those who do to compensate though. I usually finish with a fthrow -> hyphen smash.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
Fair enough. I used B-stick for a while specifically to do retreat SH Blizzards with the wave bounce effect, but got tired of accidentally doing random things that I didn't want (Squall hammering/Jumping on occasion. Why does it jump? haha) and also can almost do the same thing without the B stick.
IMO the trade off of B-sticking is in fact that you end up having to do more CG's. Which ultimately means more chances of blowing a chain (even if you convert 99.9% of the time and the we're only talking like 4 more grabs here, that one time out of a thousand could end up being at a pivotal point in the match). I'll trade a frame or two to do a retreating blizzard without the B-stick in order to minimize chances for error.
Also: The B-Trigger (What I dub assigning specials to R/Z. if there's an established name correct me) is a good transition from a Wii-chuck to GC controllers because it puts your specials back to your index finger.
And in case you were wondering, it doesn't help your squall hammer vertical go higher by inputting more specials with the extra finger. If only...
IMO the trade off of B-sticking is in fact that you end up having to do more CG's. Which ultimately means more chances of blowing a chain (even if you convert 99.9% of the time and the we're only talking like 4 more grabs here, that one time out of a thousand could end up being at a pivotal point in the match). I'll trade a frame or two to do a retreating blizzard without the B-stick in order to minimize chances for error.
Also: The B-Trigger (What I dub assigning specials to R/Z. if there's an established name correct me) is a good transition from a Wii-chuck to GC controllers because it puts your specials back to your index finger.
And in case you were wondering, it doesn't help your squall hammer vertical go higher by inputting more specials with the extra finger. If only...
Sieguest
Smash Master
It jumps because in certain times, such as when you're dashing or just after an attack, the stick switches to a jump. It's the game trying to think for you in a more defensive manner.
Knowing that, you can pull a perfect RAR with the bstick. =D hooray for no effort!
Yup, and coincidentally, I'm not the most consistent person with CGs -_- lol. But I like what it can do for me.
I've only used the wiichuck once or twice, whenver I forget to take my GC to the houses of the few friends I know that play smash....(not that great...)
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that mashing the b button (or whatever you have set as special, I'd prefer the b button for squall recoveries) doesn't help? If you are, then I'd have to disagree.
Try double jumping and just pressing special once to start squall. You fall like a rock.
Try double jumping and mashing b while moving the squall in the same direction you were facing. You should rise if you mash fast enough, at worse you'll remain at the altitude you started at.
Try double jumping and mashing b while moving squall in the opposite direction you're facing. You'll should rise very quickly if you mash fast.
(I'm not sure whether it's just me, but I always rise higher whenever I squall in the direction opposite of the way I was facing before initiating it. x.x so someone can correct me if I'm wrong)
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
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You misread what I meant. Or rather I wasn't clear. I was simply using the logic that two fingers rather than one for the squall input might make it go higher than the fast thumb only mash normally does.
Long story short: It doesn't. You're better off just using B for that. I edited the post for clarification.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying lol.
ch33s3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,756
I use Z to jump (to help with SHFF desynching), have R set to attack (similar reason), and use Y for grabs, I think having a jump and attack button you can activate completely independently of your special button and cstick is really helpful.
Shut up Hylian, default ISN'T better. <4
Shut up Hylian, default ISN'T better. <4
Sieguest
Smash Master
At the rate this is going, my whole controller setup is going to be "wrong" soon. x.x
What's so bad about having tap jump off?
You have less options. Not jumping when tilting is easy >_>.At the rate this is going, my whole controller setup is going to be "wrong" soon. x.x
What's so bad about having tap jump off?