General ICs Q&A Thread

[[FBC] ESAM]

You have shield options, you know. Rolls and sidesteps are nice if he is being that predictable with fair (which it seems like he is)

 

[-LzR-]

He is predictable with fair because he knows it destroys me.
I appreciate your help though, but I've asked this same dumb question like 10 times already and still haven't made any progress, no matter what. Maybe I'm just doomed to be bad.

 

[TheSaintKai]

He is predictable with fair because he knows it destroys me.
I appreciate your help though, but I've asked this same dumb question like 10 times already and still haven't made any progress, no matter what. Maybe I'm just doomed to be bad.

After considering several different responses to this, I'll just ask.

Did you try what I said in my post?

 

[-LzR-]

You mentioned about Lux desynching into IB stuff or something? I cannot remember who said and what... I'll try to search for that post, just a sec...

Edit: Looked for the last 10 pages, didn't find that post. Is it in the other thread or something? Don't have time to look for it now, I'll try to find it tomorrow.

 

[TheSaintKai]

You mentioned about Lux desynching into IB stuff or something? I cannot remember who said and what... I'll try to search for that post, just a sec...

Edit: Looked for the last 10 pages, didn't find that post. Is it in the other thread or something? Don't have time to look for it now, I'll try to find it tomorrow.

I'll post it for the fourth time for you then. Give me a moment.

Edit: Here you go. "It depends on what the Marth does. I assume you're talking about him just running up to your shield and tipper f-airing it. You basically have to read what he's going to do afterwards.

If he retreats the f-air:
Turn around, so you're facing away from him when you shield his f-air. When he f-airs you, Lux Desync out of shield (I can't remember if it's 1 or 2) and ice block towards him (you'll be facing him since the Lux Desync uses a turnaround.) Then chase the IB and shield. If he's good, he'll double jump. Punish accordingly. If he tries to f-air you or air dodge the IB, you get a grab.

If he goes through you:
Stay turned around, as if you were doing the above.
When he f-airs and travels through you, you can either risk getting a grab by reading his landing, or you can just n-air or b-air him OOS."

 

[-LzR-]

Okay now I remember that post. The problem was that I cannot do Lux Desynch at all, but it seems it's back to training mode for me...

 

[Ruinn]

yeah, im with lzr on this one. as soon as i look at how to do those desyncs i just say screw it. buffer this buffer that ib this... too much for me.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Babies. It really isn't that difficult, it is just a timing...then again Pikachu is one of the most buffer-intense characters so it isn't really a big deal to me at all

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah but there are 2 Icies and I don't fully understand how that works. I have tried to buffer stuff but then both of the just buffer it. What am I doing wrong and how is that going to help me beat Marts fair?

 

[dettadeus]

Any chance there could be a video of a high-level player doing F-Throw > B-Throw on a bunch of characters to show the spacing and timing?
I think the main issue people have with learning this one is they have no reference to work off of, whereas they have almost every high-level Icies match to reference for B-Throw > D-Throw.

 

[TheSaintKai]

how is that going to help me beat Marts fair?

It literally gives you an option that, if you react quickly enough, can beat every single one of marth's options when he runs up and tipper f-airs your shield.
If he backs up, you cover his landing with an IB and force him to jump (the good option), attack (gets hit by the IB and you shield, free grab) or airdodge (still gets hit when he lands, grab) Even if he jumps he's in a bad situation, as being above ICs usually means damage.
If he doesn't back up, and instead goes through you (mixing it up or wtv), you just OoS nair or bair him and he takes damage.

This is, of course, only if he runs up and rising f-airs you. If he lands with f-air you win anyways, sidestep or powershield it and grab him.

I seriously went from going even with my friend to wrecking him so badly that he doesn't play marth against me anymore. He was scared to fair me. Think about that

MARTH WAS SCARED TO USE HIS FORWARD AIR LOOOOOL

 

[Smasher89]

When I was active and played alot, Marth was a matchup I felt ICs was really good against. Since brawls shield is amazing comparing to melees and just Dashshield was an amazing option. Other then that, I usually did get some crazy good desynching going that made me get lots of grabs and made me win. Even dthrow fairspike at ledge is kinda legit against him since his Up-b is soooo bad against ICs in that situation.

Cant get more specific then that since I´ll probably have to play for a few months again to regain that level and atm that is not an option :/

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks a lot Saint. You give me a lot hope. Now I am something to try to accomplish. If I can get rid of my Marth problem, I can finally move on to MK
And thanks a lot for explaining each option so even I understand my options.

 

[Ruinn]

@ esam - i mean, im more of a visual learner. SHOW me what you're describing and it'd be much easier. but f**k those buffer words and all that crap lmao

 

[Rubberbandman]

@ esam - i mean, im more of a visual learner. SHOW me what you're describing and it'd be much easier. but f**k those buffer words and all that crap lmao

LD1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMS9zcDkww

LD2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLpF228MVVw

Lux, delete my post if you didnt want me to post it up. ;o

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I can't teach **** visually unless my fingers were there...

 

[Aefice]

having trouble with diddy kong matchup. any pro tips?

i get split up easily with bananas. i;ve been trying to play aggressively and use the bananas but that isn't working for me

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I'm just having problems doing desyncs.

I always have to take a few to set up a desync.

The only reliable desync I can use is the pivot desync and I'm not too consistent with it.

I also know how to do

Dash Dance Desync (I suck at it)

Ledge desyncs


Anybody have an opinion on what is the easiest desync to do (and most reliable)?


Also I'm having problems vs olimar :/

 

[dettadeus]

The easiest desync for me now is the pivot desync. It's three inputs and takes less than a second.
I'm also fairly consistent at whatever desync is the SH > Airdodge > Popo Dash + Nana Ice block one is.

Got a couple of questions for Lux or whoever, just mainly at Lux because I need some clarifications on a couple things he showed me.

You told me that I should throw in some aerials to cover my Blizzard Wall. Which aerials should I use and how should I time them to keep the climbers desynced? I've tried Nair and U-Air so far but after two or three repetitions they always re-sync.

I can platform cancel on Lylat really consistently now, but I'm still having trouble with a couple of things. The Popo PC + Nana U-Air desync/grab setup and generally spacing the grab. If I PC and run, I'll end up doing a dash grab and have a really hard time either grabbing or following up on it, and if I PC and stand, I always end up jabbing instead of grabbing.
Also, what happens if you do the PC Desync and Nana ends up U-Airing off of the platform? This happened a couple times while I was practicing on Lylat since the platforms are so small.

And I could use some help with the Olimar matchup too.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I'm just having problems doing desyncs.

I always have to take a few to set up a desync.

The only reliable desync I can use is the pivot desync and I'm not too consistent with it.

I also know how to do

Dash Dance Desync (I suck at it)

Ledge desyncs


Anybody have an opinion on what is the easiest desync to do (and most reliable)?


Also I'm having problems vs olimar :/

Practice more.

Easiest desynch is Dtilt desynch, but you can't get ice blocks out of it.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

How do I dthrow without popo/nana dropping through the platform?

 

[Ruinn]

popo will always drop through a platform

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Buffer it.

 

[Ruinn]

esam and buffers. >_<

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

***** it's an essential aspect of the game, ****ing learn it.

Sorry, if you do the CGs fast enough they won't fall through (assuming you aren't like d/d)

 

[Ruinn]

dawg, dont make forever alone dk in my avi come and slap you up, I'll gladly not buffer anything and still win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheSaintKai]

dawg, dont make forever alone dk in my avi come and slap you up, I'll gladly not buffer anything and still win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or you could be good instead of complaining.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You won't win anything of note, Mr. Ruinn, and don't lie to yourself that you will.

 

[Ruinn]

You won't win anything of note, Mr. Ruinn, and don't lie to yourself that you will.

Or you could be good instead of complaining.

nobody's complaining.

 

[| Big D |]

You can tap down lightly IIRC.

the most buffer intense.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That stupid buffered pivot grab is impossible. In 10 frames you have to ****ing buffer

Turn around (When you want to do an action other than attack after a turn-around, you must buffer a down and then a back direction)
Dash backwards
Pivot grab.

So in 10 frames you press down, backwards, back to neutral, back, forward + Z

 

[DeLux]

I actually discovered a way to do it in as few inputs as possible and once was able to do it pretty consistently after practicing a few hours. IDK if I can do it now that it's been a few months though.

I told the DDD's about it, but still nobody learned it and I'd never use the character so lol too bad DDD

 

[| Big D |]

^ Now you're just teasing me. I tried using a freaking wii remote and still couldn't do it, tell me plz.

Dedede's buffered upsmash would make 4G0D's life a lot easier if he learned it. He'd be killing Charizard at 110 as opposed to 170. It also works on Ivysaur.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I taught 4god the buffer U-smash before he went to his internship.

 

[| Big D |]

He didn't do it though, but I guess he won anyways so it's not like there's any other Pokemon Trainers that would challenge him.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I mean, it was like 2 weeks ago that I taught him...so...yeah.

 

[| Big D |]

He's like the only person who could make use of it in his region at high level.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Wow, I saw some really good info in here. I didn't realize F-throw to B-throw was the best chaingrab. I will definitely have to start practicing ICs more. Those desynchs are up next >_<

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Ok, I have some questions, how do yall Edgeguard w/ ICs, should I use blizzard/ Ice Block desynchs? Should I stay by the close by the ledge and wait? Should I just hold the middle of the stage?

When opponents are in the air, do yall go for upairs or just wait for them to land into grabs?

Also, how do you guys set up grab? Do you guys wait to get hit, or use Ice Block desynchs?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I just send out ice blocks or run out with fair because I'm stupid. Normally ICs just wait for you to get back on since their offstage game is normally not worth it considering they can easily die.

I normally empty FH or SH to test their reactions a few times, and then go according to what they do.

I get grab setups by forcing people to **** up. Patient ICs are scary as hell.