General ICs Q&A Thread

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you use a move with popo, it stales for both nana and popo. If you use a move with nana, it only stales Nanas. So, let's say, you f-throw with popo and f-throw with nana. Nana's f-throw is now 2 stale while Popo's is only 1 stale.

I think...

 

[DeLux]

to Clarify:

Nana is on Popo's stale move queue.

For example let's say Popo hasn't done a move, Nana fsmash will be fresh as well. Popo's next fsmash will still be fresh.

However, let's say Popo hits with an fsmash. Nana's fsmash will be one fsmash stale once the animation of Popo's fsmash is over (if it works similarly to other stale moves)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ooohhhh so Nana is just straight up on Popo's move queue?

 

[DeLux]

That's the case according to multiple reliable sources. I haven't personally done testing on the matter, but said sources have yet to be wrong on anything lol

They explained it this way to me. It makes sense to program it this way because Nana hits 5 frames after Popo (unless desynced), so if Nana staled moves, every hit would stale x2. At the same time, every hit Nana does would always be one time staled. Unless they're desynced of course.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I always looked at it that they shared it, and only popo's moves are registered in the stale queue. /shrug

Based on some research with EA, I suspect the window for desyncs is rarely 1 frame. The only reason I say "5 frames?" is because based on the mechanics of squall, I'd suspect it to be 5. However, if it's not 5, it is probably 10 frames.

I say 1 frame from popo blizzard out of squall desynch, not blizzard altogether though, because thats what I've observed. Just stating just in case thats what you were talking on. We need some frame testing for it though, since Im not sure of it 100%.

Stating "if I recall correctly" hints that you had some doubts about your answers.

But I end most of my answers with iirc. D:

 

[DeLux]

I'm 99% sure it's longer than one frame

 

[-LzR-]

I'm an idiot and still don't understand LD1.
Any way to explain it so a tree could understand? :s

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You buffer a dash out of something at certain timings and only popo dashes so nana is free to do whatever she wants.

 

[-LzR-]

Thank you. Now I know I have tried something very wrong.
So I should just perform a certain move and then buffer a dash after it so only Popo dashes? It's not that complicated after all.

 

[DeLux]

No that's a buffered turnaround desync

You buffer a walk THEN a dash

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Welp, I guess now it is me that should stop posting xD

 

[-LzR-]

Maybe I should just give up and don't give a **** anymore. I'm so confused. Buffering a walk then buffering a dash out of it? Wtf man.

EDIT: So how do I even buffer a walk?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Buffered walk = Shield. Tilt shield in the direction you want to walk. Drop shield.

 

[-LzR-]

That didn't help.

 

[Ruinn]

All the ld desyncs look so useful but I can never do them so I just dash dance. .-.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't even know how to do the dashdance one. I just always SND. Not sure if it's useful but it's kinda fast.

 

[F A N G]

Buffer walk = hold left/right out of whatever

 

[dettadeus]

Why is it that you can't hobble on sloped surfaces (like lylat 95% of the time)?

 

[-LzR-]

Buffer walk = hold left/right out of whatever

Is it really a buffer or does that simply have to do with holding the input so it comes out as soon as possible anyways so it's not really a buffer? Or is that enough? How fast do you have to input the dash? Do you hold right out of the lag and immediately when the walk begins you input a dash and then something with Nana?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why is it that you can't hobble on sloped surfaces (like lylat 95% of the time)?

You can't lock somebody on downward slopes, just the mechanics of the game.

Is it really a buffer or does that simply have to do with holding the input so it comes out as soon as possible anyways so it's not really a buffer? Or is that enough? How fast do you have to input the dash? Do you hold right out of the lag and immediately when the walk begins you input a dash and then something with Nana?

You can't "buffer" walk. If you are holding it you will do it on the first available frame, but it isn't exactly buffering.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Why is it that you can't hobble on sloped surfaces (like lylat 95% of the time)?

The timing is changed, a footstool causes prat falls and depending on the wakeup animation of characters you can lock them with things such as Ice Shot. (which is why Bthrow hobbling doesn't work on Bowser)

Slopes make the timing different, so upward angled slopes allow characters to enter wakeup animation ability faster, so you can't get them on the usual timing. (aka, impossible) Downward slopes keep them in the animation longer, so you have to wait longer in order to get the lock. (aka the not buffered Ice Shot timing)

To sum it up, its impossible on up-angled slopes, but downward you have to not buffer your ice blocks, or else they just take Ice block damage and are back to neutral position.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Peach and snake are now my toughest MUs for me :/.

 

[F A N G]

Is it really a buffer or does that simply have to do with holding the input so it comes out as soon as possible anyways so it's not really a buffer? Or is that enough? How fast do you have to input the dash? Do you hold right out of the lag and immediately when the walk begins you input a dash and then something with Nana?

Well I can't think of any other way to do it.

But then I don't get why buffering a DA is done with c-stick up either.

Some kinda of frame by frame guide would be the most helpful.

Buffered walk = Shield. Tilt shield in the direction you want to walk. Drop shield.

But I do get this: To buffer a walk OoS (first part of LD1), you move the control stick like you're just tilting the shield and then release your shield button.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Jesus.
Lux correct me if I'm wrong.

Shield

Tilt shield in opposite direction of desired direction

Let go of shield while keeping control stick

When shield drops and they start to turn around, smash the stick in desired direction to dash in that direction

Use this technique to enjoy free grabs, the ability to cure cancer, etc., etc..

 

[Ruinn]

I'm going to be using and at impulse tomorrow. Wish me luck.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How do you perform desynced moves out of dair and basically out of lag from attacks?

Also, how do you guys get grabs during matches? Do you mainly get the from setups, and if so which ones? Or do you get them from mistakes/laggy attacks, or something else?

 

[Ruinn]

We get grabs like any other character gets grabs o.O

Unless you mean like... desnyc blizzard wall, and when nana is doing her blizzard popo runs in and grabs? Not really sure what you mean, it's just frame trapping I guess lol.

 

[dettadeus]

Nana Ice Block > Popo Grab generally works. Most people in my region suck at not getting grabbed, so I don't have as much of a problem grabbing than I would assume other Icies do.

There's a bunch of little setups you can use, just watch a bunch of Vinnie's recent matches and if you don't understand how to do them, just ask here.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I was talking about something more advanced than what you guys said, but its ok I just got to practice and figure it out by myself.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you are more specific in your questioning we can answer more specifically~

 

[ViperGold42]

I'm having serious problems with CGing and Desynching. I've read the guide abunch of times and still can't get it down. is there a visual/video out there to help me?

 

[DeLux]

I'd recommend working in training mode or against CPU's over reading the guides. Practicing is far superior to reading anything anyone writes especially when learning at a basic level. Once you get further in development and understand how mechanics/gameplay works better, then you can start apply abstract guides to practical use effectively.

 

[ViperGold42]

I'd recommend working in training mode or against CPU's over reading the guides. Practicing is far superior to reading anything anyone writes especially when learning at a basic level. Once you get further in development and understand how mechanics/gameplay works better, then you can start apply abstract guides to practical use effectively.

and which characters do you suggest I practice against boss? because I can already do the Dthrow chaingrab, anything else gets either 1 grab or misses.

 

[DeLux]

Since the Dthrow CG varies in timing from character to character, I suggest you practice all of them.

 

[ViperGold42]

Since the Dthrow CG varies in timing from character to character, I suggest you practice all of them.

and should I slow the speed down so I can get down the timing?

 

[DeLux]

I would think that slowing the timing would do nothing but make you learn the slowed timing. I don't think I ever practice in slow mode.

 

[GimR]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[tekkie]

quick question

i'm practicing the dthrow/bthrow generic CG and keep screwing up the bthrow from nana to popo. do you have to shield or something for it to work? how do you get nana to bthrow to popo without popo running off like an idiot?

 

[-LzR-]

Don't practice that if you don't know how to do it yet. Learn the Fthrow -> Bthrow instead. It doesn't trip, is faster and harder to mash and can be done entirely on visual cues only. It's also a lot easier to do it on heavies this way. It's better in every way.

Also for your question try to not press the control stick all the way, but just slightly. Slight inputs are the key.
For Bthrow, for characters like MK... All you have to do is grab with Popo and press z and smash the control stick back at the same time and Nana will grab the character out of the Bthrow.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How do you perform desynced moves out of dair and basically out of lag from attacks?

Also, how do you guys get grabs during matches? Do you mainly get the from setups, and if so which ones? Or do you get them from mistakes/laggy attacks, or something else?

If you are more specific in your questioning we can answer more specifically~

I thought what I asked was pretty specific, but oh well.

*How do you desych after attacks? such as popo and nana f-smashing together, is there a way to immediately desych after like you can w/ side-b?

*What specific setups do you use to land grabs during matches? Or how do you land grabs that lead to death during your matches?