General ICs Q&A Thread

[-LzR-]

Well sometimes against Marth I try to UpB to the ledge before he does his upB and then perform the belay desynch. This way Marth has to UpB on stage and that's where Popo is waiting, being able to do anything like a grab.
This is kinda risky and dumb but I attempt it anyways.
And don't go offstage if the opponent has a lot of recovery options like MK, it's not worth it. If it's something like DK, try to Dtilt from the ledge if they are slightly above the ledge, if not, just edgehog, should work with Climbers.

 

[DeLux]

LD1 OOS > IB > FF > Nana Ledge Grab destroys a lot of characters as an edge guard setup.

Wait until they recover option, and hit shield so nana invincibility rolls of the ledge and popo is protected from w/e hit box. Then either grab or dtilt based on spacing.

If they try to challenge it, you can floating invinci fair with Nana.

 

[-LzR-]

Can you perform LD1 OoS even if no one hits your shield? What is the timing for it?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I just send out ice blocks or run out with fair because I'm stupid. Normally ICs just wait for you to get back on since their offstage game is normally not worth it considering they can easily die.

I normally empty FH or SH to test their reactions a few times, and then go according to what they do.

I get grab setups by forcing people to **** up. Patient ICs are scary as hell.

That helps some, thanks.

LD1 OOS > IB > FF > Nana Ledge Grab destroys a lot of characters as an edge guard setup.

Wait until they recover option, and hit shield so nana invincibility rolls of the ledge and popo is protected from w/e hit box. Then either grab or dtilt based on spacing.

If they try to challenge it, you can floating invinci fair with Nana.

Sounds really technical, but effective. What's floating invinci fair?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I need to learn how to LD1 OOS.

 

[DeLux]

Can you perform LD1 OoS even if no one hits your shield? What is the timing for it?

Based on my knowledge, I've only been able to perform LD1 OOS if nobody hits my shield. If they hit my shield in that situation, you can ASC > Nair as an option select. If they don't hit your shield, you can LD1 OOS where the setup takes approx 24 frames of Nana vulnerability according to testing I outsourced to Australia (thanks EAlert).

To my knowledge, it's actually faster and safer to setup than a bungie jump which requires running off the ledge to a vulnerable point where you can double jump followed by the 15-21 frames of startup on belay to Nana grabbing the ledge.

That helps some, thanks.


Sounds really technical, but effective. What's floating invinci fair?

If Popo is on stage and Nana is on the ledge, you can input a ledge release to Fair and Nana will float next to the ledge and Fair while still in ledge grab invincibility. She can do all kinds of things floating there.

 

[-LzR-]

You still didn't explain how to do LD1...
Do I just press shield and buffer something during shieldrop? How small is the window for it? Why should I even use it?

 

[DeLux]

???

I made a thread here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322490
I know you've seen this thread because we had a discussion in it.

It's LD1, of course you need to buffer something during shield drop. It's a buffered desync >_>
Shield drop is 7 frames so I assume the window is 7 frames.

I just told you why you should use it (over other options) in my last two posts ...

 

[Ruinn]

ld1.. ib.. desync

fgklnopbj
ft

too much for me man

 

[| Big D |]

All you need to do to get nana on the ledge is have popo ice block at the ledge, while popo ice blocks, you can just input a dash and bam, nana is on the ledge.

You can do the tripple dash ice block then have popo ice block to nana dash or whatever.

You can SND at the ledge and have nana dash.

You can initiate any kind of desync, as long as popo is ice blocking at the ledge with nana at his side.

Edit: It seems the fastest way for me to get nana on the ledge is to tripple dash ice block and have nana slide off while she ice blocks using her momentum. It's not hard either.

The question is now what can you do while she's on the ledge, if you tap down she will go down and automatically jump back up renewing her invincibility. Right after you press down it seems like you can input an aerial. The only aerial she can use with out you having to save her is upair.

I can see this really helping, my last tourney match involved a pikachu using 172 ledge grabs, not even a time out.

 

[DeLux]

Those are all good options and I'm not discounting them ( and I use a lot of them myself)

However, LD1 OOS is the only out of shield one that I know of which makes it useful imo

 

[Zinoto]

Diddy boards have begun our discussion on . Drop by and share your knowledge please.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14543794#post14543794

 

[stewyian]

up b failure

I was wondering why the ice climbers up b will fail sometimes, I will be off stage with both nana and popo near each other, up b, and they both individually do it but dont tether together. I have a feeling it might be because they are desycned but i dont know why they would be descynced.

 

[Smoom77]

It's because they're desynced. They can't do specials synced if they are in the falling animation. You have to press forward/back to get them synced again, or use an aerial or air dodge. It's not quite obvious now, but you'll soon get a feel to when they're synced and when they're not.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I was wondering why the ice climbers up b will fail sometimes, I will be off stage with both nana and popo near each other, up b, and they both individually do it but dont tether together. I have a feeling it might be because they are desycned but i dont know why they would be descynced.

yea this problem happens to me to sometimes. I normally press up air. But sometimes I will be mashing up air and nana dosen't do the up air so I know there resynced and I can side b or up b for recovery. Its like it takes time for her to resync. :O

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If nana is desynced from you she has her own AI. If she up-b's, you cannot up-b and tether to her, you have to wait until she is in freefall.

 

[Hylian]

If nana is desynced from you she has her own AI. If she up-b's, you cannot up-b and tether to her, you have to wait until she is in freefall.

If she up-bs before you(as in she up-bs without you pressing upb) then you actually can cancel her up-b animation with belay or squall assuming you are in range.

 

[Ruinn]

Hey beautiful babies;

can I get linked to a list/can somebody post a list of all the percents once each character reaches, they can no longer di to live an unstale usmash? aka what percents to finish off the chaingrab for each character. Not charged btw, because anytime I charge they mash out lol.

I feel it'd be useful to know and remember what percents to go to, ike for instance mk can't live past to 125% iirc. I know it may seem like a lot of work for something you can pretty much use your judgement for, but to me it just seems useful.

 

[DeLux]

Given that it's stage dependent and location dependent, no. No you can't.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Hey beautiful babies;

can I get linked to a list/can somebody post a list of all the percents once each character reaches, they can no longer di to live an unstale usmash? aka what percents to finish off the chaingrab for each character. Not charged btw, because anytime I charge they mash out lol.

I feel it'd be useful to know and remember what percents to go to, ike for instance mk can't live past to 125% iirc. I know it may seem like a lot of work for something you can pretty much use your judgement for, but to me it just seems useful.

No, use your judgment.

 

[C.J.]

200% each

I guarantee it

Unless they tech walls or a ceiling or something else that's only on certain stages.

 

[C.J.]

Okay after 4 days I don't care about double posting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZFUWx_lec&feature=g-u-u

7:12 explain please?

 

[-LzR-]

I don't get it. What are you even asking about?

 

[Vurky]

Okay after 4 days I don't care about double posting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZFUWx_lec&feature=g-u-u

7:12 explain please?

The Falco side B'd into the ice block.

 

[C.J.]

I didn't even see the sideB, I thought he was still in sopo's CG

#beenawakefor48hoursjohns

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Ok, so is there a reason why I see most ICs KOing w/ Popo off a chaingrab? I've been killing with the final blow using Nana(upsmash/fsmash)...is Popo stronger than Nana or something and does it matter who I use for the final KO?

Also, how do you desync after side-b?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Popo is stronger. I don't often desync out of side-b so I couldn't really tell you...

 

[B0NK]

Also, how do you desync after side-b?

Buffer a dash at the very end of side-b, then hit IB or anything really.

 

[DeLux]

There's a 5 frame? window out of the end of squall that you can buffer an action for Nana

 

[Ruinn]

popo's moves decay though while nana's doesn't(iirc). so just make sure if you're finishing off with popo, your usmash isn't stale.

 

[DeLux]

You recalled incorrectly

 

[Ruinn]

sadface. ignore what I said. D:

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ruinn, you should probably stop answering these types of questions since you (normally) get them wrong.

 

[Hylian]

An easy way to desynch after squall is to just mash B right when it's ending until you see the IB animation start with nana then stop. Better to just practice it a lot though.

 

[dettadeus]

I could've sworn Lux told me Nana's moves don't stale when he was teaching me stuff, but then again, it was like 2 AM so I probably remember incorrectly.
Maybe it was that Nana's moves don't stale on the same list as Popo's, so stuff like Smobbling doesn't stale Popo's f-smash?

Also the best desync out of Sqall is obviously side-taunt so they do the Phoenix.

 

[-LzR-]

The reason Popo should be used to finish off chaingrabs is because if you use a smash with Nana while Popo is still in the throwing animation some bull**** armor appears and the smash doesn't them then anymore.

 

[Ruinn]

I should just stop posting here in general, my posts aren't worth it.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Both climbers share the same staling queue, and nana's move usage is not counted towards staling the move. Her moves can be staled, but only if YOU use them.

Also, generally when popo holds the opponent, they have a higher time of not taking knockback from kill moves; Using nana to hold them remedies this most of the time.

There's a 5 frame? window out of the end of squall that you can buffer an action for Nana

Is it 5 frames? I thought it was whatever the normal desynched amount is.

Either way, desynching from squall is easy to time; double iceblocks = too slow, no iceblocks = too fast. Exception to this is blizzard where there is a one frame? timing for popo blizzard instead of nana blizzard.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it guys, wasn't expecting all of this help. And don't stop posing Ruinn, it's better to be wrong and say something than to think your right and never be corrected.

I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions.

 

[DeLux]

Based on some research with EA, I suspect the window for desyncs is rarely 1 frame. The only reason I say "5 frames?" is because based on the mechanics of squall, I'd suspect it to be 5. However, if it's not 5, it is probably 10 frames.

Since I'm retired, I don't really feel like testing that because I can already squall desync on command without having someone tell me what the window is lol

Detta, you recall incorrectly. I never said Nana's moves don't stale, because that is wrong.

Ruin, of course you should post. However, as ESAM suggests, it would probably be better for you to post questions rather than answers at the moment unless you're sure you're right. Stating "if I recall correctly" hints that you had some doubts about your answers.